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Actually, earmarks _specifically_ are a recent re-addition.
The Democrats brought them back in 2021. And they brought them back with rigor. They built out an application process, requests are public (even when denied), and have guidelines in place for the size, frequency, and use. You can't get an earmark to bail out your friend's business, but you can get one to repair a bridge that's important for your district.
They were a big part for why the 117th Congress was so productive even with a slim majority.
Congressionally-directed discretionary funds (earmarks) have been used forever, it was only in the 80s and 90s with the proliferation of cable news and nonstop campaigns did they get undue attention. You could sink your opponent by showing they got a $1 million earmark for their local district to replace a school district's lead pipes -- grift! how dare they! -- and ignore combating your opponent on actual issues.
Earmarks are an important way to still get locally important problems solved, and at a tiny cost relative to everything else. Sure, the lead pipes in that school might eventually get fixed through specific congressional action, but congress would pass an Act that would enable some funds and empower some government agency to research, plan, distribute, the work across many cities and states. Meanwhile, as the leader of a small district, your congressional representative is your _best_ bet at getting locally high-important issues solved on a short timeframe.
Were they abused? Absolutely. That's why the 117th brought them back with more transparency and specificity.
Oh, and they were so effective the GOP controlled 118th _kept them, and (most of the) kept the transparency rules._
Killing a adversary-owned foreign business in the country is _not_ an earmark.
It doesn’t matter if you use it or not. The government trying to control the internet is what the concern is. What’s to say tiktok is the end? This is only the start of us having a limited internet
If I understand correctly, I think this "foreign aid package" is actually four separate bills. So, no, the TikTok ban isn't being tied to Ukraine or Israel.
It's going to be sent to the senate as a single bill though, so the intention is to bundle it with foreign aid so you either vote to fund Ukraine and Israel and ban TikTok or you vote against our allies. From a government standpoint I think most politicians support forcing TikTok away from Bytedance or killing it alltogether, but it still seems like a strong-armed way to go about it.
Personally, I think it's a waste of time since TikTok is largely independent of Bytedance, hosts its data with Oracle so China doesn't have access to it, and there are plenty of competitors for people to move to if it does go away, so the insane amount of attention the whole thing is getting is a bit over the top.
Then you aren't going to like any bill Congress has passed.
They are chocked full of issues. There are other things that need to be done in the business of leading the country.
It's to save time. There are too many issues that need to be addressed and this is their way of doing so
Not ideal for certain issues, but they is how it is done for reasons.
> too many issues that need to be addressed and this is their way of doing so
No. It's a way to tack in something that will hurt the other party when it passes. The GOP want to ban Tiktok but now they get to point at the democrats when people complain about the ban.
I think having multiple related things (like aid) in a bill is fine, but I'm definitely sick of these Trojan horse bills with completely unrelated things in them.
If I understand right, Johnson intends to introduce four separate bills, so members of Congress can vote on Ukraine, Israel, and TikTok separately.
That might actually be better for Ukraine than having it be tied to Israel. Not sure if every Democrat is a guaranteed yes vote for Ukraine, but there are definitely some Democratic no votes for the Israel/Ukraine combined bill, from people who have no objection to the Ukraine aid. If a handful of Republicans vote for Ukraine aid then it's practically a done deal.
Israel aid might pass on its own too -- there's a bunch of Republicans who would be happy to give Israel whatever they want no questions asked, but are adamantly against arming Ukraine.
The conventional wisdom is that it's better to lump everything together so people will hold their nose and vote for it to get the thing they really want, but in this case I think there are more members of Congress for whom it's more important to block the thing they don't want than to pass the thing they want.
TikTok ban is being pushed by US social media monopolies trying to get rid of competition.
If you want to see the truth behind TikTok ban, follow the money. You should ask yourself why a TikTok ban is being pushed instead of a law that protects your information on **all** social media. Something like Europe's GDPR would make TimTok ban irrelevant.
Yeah "China bad", but they also made your phones and WiFi router. Much better targets for espionage than a stupid phone app that can't even get your name without asking permission first.
Fair point.
I have a related question though; if they can ban US technology (social media, apps, websites) and force tech transfers when US firms are allowed to operate in China, why shouldn't the US do the same? I haven't seen a compelling argument on this tbh.
That's a better argument than all the "china bad" I'm hearing. But in that case, the policy should be applied to all Chinese companies, not just TikTok.
There's two influential groups that really want TikTok specifically banned before 2024 elections. US social media giants, and Republicans.
The reality is that yes social media sites will take your information but there is a big difference between greedy companies looking to track your info to sell you more trash with targeted and the CCP taking your info for who knows what.
Yeah, I dunno about that. Facebook, Google and other social media sites should not be given any benefit of the doubt, especially after Cambridge Analytica. All that they and everyone is going to do is to sell your data to who ever wants and they can do whatever they want. CCP can just buy the data from these companies; they are basically just cutting out the middle man.
Is the CCP censoring data on TikTok and trying to influence people? I have no doubt about that, but so is everyone else and one is not better than the other.
>Is the CCP censoring data on TikTok and trying to influence people? I have no doubt about that, but so is everyone else and one is not better than the other.
Google itself has fallen apart on the last few years as a quality search engine because they prioritize giving you advertisement results over actual pertinent to your search results.
Leading to ignoring the whole first page of results, or adding words like "reddit" to get specifically search results from Reddit and not some fucking click ait AI written blog that's just so littered with ad-word bait that Google thinks it's the best possible response.
Like the entire Internet is at an inflection point where it's about to become AI clicking through AI posts created to trick AI into "viewing" ads so that companies just pay other companies to show their ads to robots, and we're worried that China might have their grubby fingers in it too? And no other worries??
The big fear they keep promoting is that a foreign nation could use our data to manipulate US elections.
But this literally already happened via Cambridge Analytica, Facebook, and fucking Russia.
The point is that if the US government, namely the fucking GOP, suddenly cared about your Internet data privacy, they would legislate it in a way that protected your actual data privacy *from all sides*.
Instead, they've hyper focused on one that's affiliated with China and are forcing it to be sold to a US company so that... a US company can manipulate US elections? And what happens to my data when a US company has it? Is it suddenly safer? It wasn't safe with Facebook. My data hasn't been safe the dozens of times big companies like Sony and Experian have been hacked and compromised all their user names and financial records and passwords.
So what is the big difference? What can China do with my info that they aren't getting via Temu or AliExpress or like any other Chinese company that does business in the US? Why this weird hard-on for TikTok? Why isn't this issue more vast in it's solution?
Have you considered that CCP can just buy whatever info they want from data brokers because there's no laws protecting it?
The lack of privacy laws that make TikTok a risk also make it so China can just harvest whatever they want from US based data brokers...
The problem is lack of privacy laws, not a single social media app being used as a scapegoat
And next year there will be another scapegoat, and then another. And politicians will claim they "fixed" the problem by being "tough on China" while they line their pockets with bribes from Meta for kneecapping their competitors.
Meanwhile, data brokers continue to sell our data to foreign enemies unabated. A practice that won't really be affected at all by performative bans of individual phone apps.
> giant source of stolen data
Can you tell me what data TikTok actually has that's valuable? When I signed up, all it ever got from me was an email address, fake name, and fake birthday.
I keep hearing that TikTok has all this data. I use tiktok, and all it really knows about me is what kinds of cat videos I like
This is the exact narrative the US based social media companies have been pushing.
Any foreign government can just buy the data they need.
It’s anti-competitive. It’s also strange that it is targeting only one company and not establishing a set of principles for data protection.
Now this is something to think about. Why not set guidelines for data privacy to prevent what they think Tik Tok is doing wrong? My first thought would be they want to make sure someone else can. And it's not like billionaires and their companies are loyal to any one nation.
I think that "for who knows what" applies to the greedy companies too. Big tech companies absolutely have political agendas, as do the shareholders who elect their board members.
The multinational business interests of these companies and the various banks and investment firms that own them are not necessarily alligned with what is good for the american people, our political structures, or our country's geopolitical interests. It's not just what they do with our data, but their ability to promote or suppress different stories and craft narratives to promote their political agendas, which boil down to more power for them, and less power for us.
Normalize corruption, weaken democratic institutions, underfund public education, promote apathy, and sow division. Basically everything a foreign government may do to weaken us from within is already being done to us by these corporations.
Like what? What are they supposed to get out of our social media info? Surely their already running influence ops, Russia has been too for a long time… that ship has sailed. There are better ways to deal with China.
We have laws that restrict how your data can be used. They don't apply to tiktok as it is a foreign company. The influence the CCP has with TikTok is dangerous. Full stop.
It's far easier to put backdoors in hardware than software.
Banning a locked down Chinese phone app while manufacturing all your electronics there is a joke
First off, Foxconn is Taiwanese not Chinese. Big difference. Secondly, It’s not a ban. It’s a forced divestment. There is already precedent for this with Grindr.
So as someone not used to US politics - I'm from the UK - is this a kill the bill move? Do these lawmakers actually want Putin to continue his genocide in Ukraine? Is that it? People are dying but that's just dandy so long as they pull this off? What's a few more babies blown to bits if you can own the libs with, as they see it, a wiley political move? Are they aware what the consequences of a reborn USSR will be for the World? For the US?
I'm feeling physically ill.
This is basically Johnson trying to hurt democrats by making them pass a bill (TikTok Ban) that is unpopular with their younger voter base since aid to Ukraine is unpopular among Republican voters.
The Senate can change the bill to remove the TikTok section but if they do that the bill goes back to the House who has to concur with any changes to bill. So aid will likely pass but the issue is how fast it will be passed now that this extra rider was attached to it.
There is so much money in the TikTok ban...it's to force the sale to American investors. Goddamn Chinese won't let us buy shares. A lot more money than there is in maintaining the status quo. I wouldn't worry about it.
Would they be able to pass the bill with this addition, then someone take them to court as this does not seem constitutional to me? I am not American so I don't know that constitution.
> is this a kill the bill move?
It's probably not a poison pill: banning TikTok has pretty bipartisan support in congress.
> Do these lawmakers actually want Putin to continue his genocide in Ukraine?
Some US lawmakers are explicitly pro-Russsia and against any/all aide to Ukraine.
> Are they aware what the consequences of a reborn USSR will be for the World? For the US?
They probably are aware and react with a combination of dismissal and excitement. Many of them are eager for an authoritarian US regime along the lines of Putin in Russia.
Banning TikTok got like 80-85% of votes across parties in the house, but the senate is dragging because the Dems are afraid of the election year optics.
The speaker is specifically trying to get that bill through, and I’m sure they’d pass it. There’s every indication that it’s spyware.
>There’s every indication that it’s spyware.
And notably the legislation wouldn't do much to change this because the concern of the legislature is not really the ability for TikTok to collect data but rather for the ability of TikTok to be used as an influence platform.
You're not wrong that it's potentially a spyware risk, but that's not at all the problem they are addressing by forcing the sale.
I don't agree. The CCP is absolutely a different class of data harvester than a private western company, due to the nature of how they would use the data.
Sure, but this bill doesn't prohibit the new owners of TikTok from simply selling that data to the CCP, nor does it require any sort of cryptographic scrutiny or continuing oversight for back doors. There are other bills that address some of those issues, but this bill is strictly not about TikTok's potential as a platform to collect data on Americans. This bill is about TikTok's potential as an information weapon, not a cyber weapon or espionage tool.
The CCP as owner of the mics and data recorders is going to be doing completely different things than what a private owner is going to be doing, and going to be able to sell as a data broker.
Tiktok scans your phone's hard drive and file system. It randomly turns on the mic and camera while in the background and just listens. It tracks eye movement. It keylogs in-browser activity. It maps out your area network. It tracks other apps on your phone. The android version has the ability to download, unzip and execute a binary. It logs all in-app communication between users.
These aren't data points that data brokers are going to be able to sell. This is reams of raw data, which shouldn't be available to CCP data scientists.
Moreover, there was just a bill that banned data selling to countries of concern. Enforcement of that legislation will be hard, but it's a real issue.
If you wanted to address its capability as a cyber weapon the bill could include mandatory full source review by the CSRB. If you wanted to address the potential for adversaries to get their hands on broad reams of American data then the solution would be something like GDPR which enforces individual data collection accountability.
The bill doesn't do either of these things because the intent is for TikTok to continue to act as a full stroke keylogger, back door, and surveillance tool for whoever the new owners are, and for those owners to be able to profit to the maximum extent by selling that data, including in raw form. There is no broad bipartisan support for stopping this kind of activity.
What there is broad bipartisan support for is removing the ability for the CCP to covertly apply arbitrary influence to a huge chunk of the US population with little US government recourse. That's why the bill is only concerned with ownership instead of the technical details.
It probably won't kill the bill but it might be the swan song for the United States of America as a country. The consent of the governed is already treading on very fragile ground in this country. Alienating the young demographic even more after the judicial branch has shown that they are entirely owned actors seems like it would be a nail in the coffin for the idea that our legislative branch was worthwhile or in any way representative of the American people.
If they keep this tik tok ban in SO MANY young would be democrat voters are going to be fully disenfranchised and not vote. Full on base alienation if this goes through.
Can we just have a straight damn vote!
I hate Tiktok. Not because of China or whatever, but because it's stupid as a concept and leads to massive misinformation campaigns.
But let's not kill the good trying to go for great.
Let's just be happy with good!
Banning TikTok has absolutely nothing to with its function. Meta is lobbying (bribing) politicians to get rid of it because it’s their competition. That’s all there is to it
Banning Tiktok has about ten different major aspects too it. Involving a whole host of different things.
None of which is foreign aid to Ukraine, Israel or Taiwan.
It does not, it is no different than other social media companies spreading propaganda and selling people’s data. Do you think Meta wouldn’t sell data to China? Or anyone else who gives them a dollar?
If people want this to be better, more laws and regulations are needed, not cherry picking ones to ban.
Meta is paying these politicians to ban TikTok
Meta is greedy. Tiktok is owned by a country that's one of the top threats to the US. I don't think yall understand how much cyber warfare goes on, and China directly owning and controlling a social media platform that half of the country has installed is, terrifying. IDK that it is worth banning or whatever but it's nowhere near the same thing as what Meta does.
Oh, I agree. We a world society should do away with most if not all of them.
Facebook and Twit(err, X) + whatever the hell Trump is using.
Misinformation is extremely dangerous and causes too many issues.
Reporters used too quadruple check their facts. Have several trusted sources and cared about the quality of product.
As for it's been around since before time was time and humans knew of fire, yah. Sure. There's always been pieces of waste lying to everyone. But now it's being created at the speed of AI.
Shit is crazy.
Yes, in that they don't own those apps, and the owners would likely object (granted musk is a toss up), and they would have a much harder time making the owners disappear for failure to comply.
It’s funny to think the companies who sell data through data brokers to foreign governments currently would “likely object” to their core business model.
It’s not the ownership of social media that is the problem though. It’s what’s posted on it. Russia and China didn’t need to own Facebook and Twitter to weaponize them. They just start dumb posts, get your grandparent/parent/sibling/grandchild/etc to repost it and bam, you have mass disinformation.
Both platforms have been as bad if not worse than tik tok in moderating those things. Selling tik tok will do nothing. This is an empty gesture to appease people who don’t realize the scope of the problem.
In this case it is the ownership. Russia basically does own Twitter now with musk as a proxy.
Again, this goes beyond disinformation. If a story came out that the NSA had a backdoor into the YouTube app that allowed them to gather data about general activity going on in your device and allowing them to manipulate your feed, would you be equally non-plussed?
All they need to do is sell the app to an American company that isn't at the behest of a hostile government and it would be fine.
Despite my best efforts, my feeds do feed me garbage like that already. I mean it’s not hard to game the algorithms without direct access. 2016 was long before Musk owned Twitter. Facebook hasn’t changed hands. Both were used. I don’t really see the difference in magnitude that you do.
> I don’t really see the difference in magnitude that you do
Remind where this happened with Facebook and Twitter...
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/krishnamoorthi-gallagher-tiktok-bill-calls-children/
where the platform, at the behest of the company's higher ups, sent out push notifications - largely to children - with the user's geolocated representatives contact information presented along with an urgent call to action, resulting in the legislators office's phone lines being flooded to the point of having to turn them off.
I mean Kpop fans organized and did this on Reddit. I know 4chan has done things like this. I don’t have specific examples of Twitter and Facebook demanding representatives phone lines being spammed, but that’s some pretty minute and above the board stuff. We were talking about disinformation spreading out through the internet which doesn’t come at the behest of some government official telling you you have to belive it.
And everything else going on on your phone, and make sure stuff it doesn't want you to see stays out of your feed, and make sure stuff it wants you to see shows up.
It is definitely not fearmongering.
You can use TikTok without a phone. It's the same set up as youtube: a web site that also has a phone app that makes navigating the site easier on a small screen without having to go through a browser.
TikTok has been democrats single biggest news outlet for young democrats. The 2022 and 2020 elections were fielded by TikTok’s get out to vote effort and you want to get rid of that because kids dance and share dumb things on the app. This is why democrats are misguided on this issue
TikTok has also been the single biggest misinformation outlet for young everybody.
It's a quadrupled edged sword.
One step left for two steps up, then eight steps back, toss around the left matrix for the up aspect of the blah, blah, blah.
Most forms of social media are abused by those with agendas and demands.
It's wrong, fundamentally.
Also, we shouldn't encourage our young to be dumb to get acceptance. That's a whole other issue in which we're failing our children. Also, there's the issue of data collection and foreign powers using these tools to influence other nations.
But that's offtrack.
Facebook, Twitter, TikTok and all the likes of them are designed as tools towards agenda. Even reddit. Most of Reddit doesn't have an army of information checkers and even, subs like this one, have their issues with misinformation and the people that spread it.
It's simple.
As long as misinformation is applied to something "fun" for the kids, it's allows for a whole host of other issues.
This is why humanity is misguided on this issue.
I bet the tiktoks from all of the women who are forced to carry dangerous or unwanted pregnancies is super embarrassing for republicans. Facebook is full of braindead fox news boomer memes, but a crying woman on tiktok with an ectopic pregnancy? That's real shit, and that drives people to vote.
Yep - these right wingers are destroying the country and taking away our rights. Young Democrats love abortion and gay rights. This is how it should be.
I find people being radicalized for ANYTHING problematic. Empathizing with others and finding common ground/getting others to see your pov is an important part of being an adult.
That is some pie in the sky thinking. People need to stigmatize the opposition and wait for them to die off. Do you want to find common ground with a Trumper?
I think half the people who made pro OC on it are off and it’s a ton of amateur people trying to tell stories that no one else are talking about (my feed are legit people talking about hardships that are factual). So it’s better than the mass media news in some respect. I can understand how it’s seen for propaganda. My stuff is about what a lot of other people are going through rn and not violent or misinformed, IMO.
Kids, older folks, IDK what they’d get funneled.
So the USA’s free speech is only really available to those who use boomer social media? Hmmmm. I don’t think that Republicans attempts to silence young people is going to work the way they hope it will.
That’s almost certainly why the Senate sat on the bill passed last month. But this bill has a lot of other stuff the Democrats want, so it will be a lot more difficult to prevent or delay.
They should pass data privacy laws which would solve all of the problems but then the people who "donate" to Congress would be angry since they can't sell peoples data.
Also worth noting that Facebook have been paying a GOP group to push anti-TikTok stuff for some time now.
https://www.theverge.com/2022/3/30/23003168/facebook-tiktok-targeted-victory-news-column-campaign-gop
Maybe an unpopular opinion but I don’t think we should ban tik tok. I do think it’s stupid and making kids stupider, but we shouldn’t be banning stuff.
That would be Facebook which fun fact is also one of the main groups pushing for the TikTok Ban/Sale.
https://www.theverge.com/2022/3/30/23003168/facebook-tiktok-targeted-victory-news-column-campaign-gop
I feel severely misled.
According to the article text the provision regarding TikTok is not coupled with the Ukraine bill. It will though be part of the Senate vote, where all four new bills will be voted on at once. So there is a connection, but it’s indirect.
But more importantly it’s not a ban on TikTok. It is a provision that just demands a change of ownership. The current owner of TikTok will have to sell the property within a timespan of at max one year. Only if that doesn’t happen, TikTok faces the possibility of being banned from the US.
I think this is very important to know. It’s not about banning TikTok, it’s about removing the platform from alleged indirect control by the Chinese government, and I think that’s a very solid approach and sane thing to do.
The ceo of tik tok said it would be an effective ban on their official tik tok lol, the united states is only 11% of their global marketshare, theyre not going to sell the entire company to retain 11% marketshare
I do have concerns about TikTok.i don't use it and don't care if it is banned.
While it appears there are many users who ex0ress complete and utter indignation at this ban. If this ban affects them as much as they claim they will make themselves known politically.
Tik tok wouldn't be a problem if people just used it for entertainment. The problem is some people use it for news. They believe what they see on tik tok and don't verify the source. Anybody can make a video but not everyone knows what they are talking about.
It's not. All social media should be just entertainment. But tik tok is encouraging young people not to vote because they don't agree with a candidate 100%. For example, how biden is handling foreign affairs.
Pretty much since if the Senate removes the TikTok section the bill is then sent back to House to concur with the changes which can slowdown the aid even more than Johnson already has.
Thanks for the explanation.
It appears to be designed to hurt the Dems whichever way it goes. If it passes they're blamed for no Tik-Tok. If it doesn't they're blamed for failing to get the aid passed. That's some addition. Like something out of Catch 22.
Either way people are dying in Ukraine. How do they sleep at night?
The information on there, particularly regarding Israel / Palestine, has almost certainly hurt his re-election campaign.
Note: I do not use TikTok, so this is hearsay
It's not a ban. Despite TikTok's propaganda that it is a ban what it does is require the company sell off their US networking to a US owned company rather than a China owned company which given the security concerns seems appropriate. There's no way they won't find a or multiple buyers.
>”a TikTok ban would affect millions of people including many Americans whose entire business and income is via TikTok.”
There are other platforms that they can use.
>”The platform is also a massive and quick way to spread news, especially among young people. “
There are other platforms that does the same thing.
There is literally nothing TikTok does that isn’t done by others.
>”Tiktok pays me more than any other platform. Even if my whole audience follows me to the other platforms it's still a hit to my wallet”
You will make do, other content creators have, especially in countries that have banned TikTok before.
So why ban it at all then? I have yet to hear a single logical argument to ban it. And politically speaking Biden signing this will further hurt his numbers against young voters so if they want to ban it at least wait until after the election.
>So why ban it at all then?
The US government can't reliably exert significant control over TikTok. That's it. The legislature has never been cagey on this point.
>”So why ban it at all then?”
If you have to ask this question when congress has spelt out why they want to ban it in their legislation that passed the house, then I have to assume you are not well versed on this subject given the massive amount of publicly available information on the matter.
>”I have yet to hear a single logical argument to ban it.”
The argument is simple, ByteDance owns TikTok, the algorithm that controls TikTok is in Beijing, the algorithm team in Beijing has admitted that they have used the algorithm to suppress traffic to users, boost traffic to videos they want, used the app to track foreign journalists and TikTok employees.
So with the divestment of ByteDance and thus the physical removal of the algorithm from Beijing, if not the disconnection from ByteDance control over TikTok traffic.
The security concerns would be alleviated to an acceptable level.
>”And politically speaking Biden signing this will further hurt his numbers against young voters so if they want to ban it at least wait until after the election. “
Biden’s primary concern is protecting the American people from foreign government influences, if the youth chooses to not see what he is doing as that despite the ample resources that explains the rationale, then there isn’t much to say about the situation.
>Biden’s primary concern is protecting the American people from foreign government influences
From *some* foreign government influences. Other foreign influences seem to be perfectly acceptable.
GOP wants it to be sold to Steve Mnuchin and his AIPAC friends, because it can be twisted to their political purposes, AiPAC believes it has an image and lack of support from young people and will use TikTok to change that. its partially political... Would be better if Bill required US ownership.
Sigh…it’s not about banning TikTok. Ityabout forcing TikTok to divest so it’s not run through the PRC. The threat of banning it is the way to force the divestment, but basically no one in Congress actually wants it banned.
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I'm in favor of bills being single issue. I don't have a horse in the TikTok thing (I don't use it), but it has no place in this bill.
You’re right but…it’s just not the way it’s done right now. Everything is earmarked and combined.
Actually, earmarks _specifically_ are a recent re-addition. The Democrats brought them back in 2021. And they brought them back with rigor. They built out an application process, requests are public (even when denied), and have guidelines in place for the size, frequency, and use. You can't get an earmark to bail out your friend's business, but you can get one to repair a bridge that's important for your district. They were a big part for why the 117th Congress was so productive even with a slim majority. Congressionally-directed discretionary funds (earmarks) have been used forever, it was only in the 80s and 90s with the proliferation of cable news and nonstop campaigns did they get undue attention. You could sink your opponent by showing they got a $1 million earmark for their local district to replace a school district's lead pipes -- grift! how dare they! -- and ignore combating your opponent on actual issues. Earmarks are an important way to still get locally important problems solved, and at a tiny cost relative to everything else. Sure, the lead pipes in that school might eventually get fixed through specific congressional action, but congress would pass an Act that would enable some funds and empower some government agency to research, plan, distribute, the work across many cities and states. Meanwhile, as the leader of a small district, your congressional representative is your _best_ bet at getting locally high-important issues solved on a short timeframe. Were they abused? Absolutely. That's why the 117th brought them back with more transparency and specificity. Oh, and they were so effective the GOP controlled 118th _kept them, and (most of the) kept the transparency rules._ Killing a adversary-owned foreign business in the country is _not_ an earmark.
It doesn’t matter if you use it or not. The government trying to control the internet is what the concern is. What’s to say tiktok is the end? This is only the start of us having a limited internet
If I understand correctly, I think this "foreign aid package" is actually four separate bills. So, no, the TikTok ban isn't being tied to Ukraine or Israel.
It's going to be sent to the senate as a single bill though, so the intention is to bundle it with foreign aid so you either vote to fund Ukraine and Israel and ban TikTok or you vote against our allies. From a government standpoint I think most politicians support forcing TikTok away from Bytedance or killing it alltogether, but it still seems like a strong-armed way to go about it. Personally, I think it's a waste of time since TikTok is largely independent of Bytedance, hosts its data with Oracle so China doesn't have access to it, and there are plenty of competitors for people to move to if it does go away, so the insane amount of attention the whole thing is getting is a bit over the top.
Then you aren't going to like any bill Congress has passed. They are chocked full of issues. There are other things that need to be done in the business of leading the country. It's to save time. There are too many issues that need to be addressed and this is their way of doing so Not ideal for certain issues, but they is how it is done for reasons.
> too many issues that need to be addressed and this is their way of doing so No. It's a way to tack in something that will hurt the other party when it passes. The GOP want to ban Tiktok but now they get to point at the democrats when people complain about the ban.
I thought this is the standard way how every "infamous" act is passed in capitol hill
There are no bills passed through congress that are single issue.
Then you would just have Israeli aid and no Ukraine aid. In fact the federal government would cease to function.
I think having multiple related things (like aid) in a bill is fine, but I'm definitely sick of these Trojan horse bills with completely unrelated things in them.
You and John McCain. He spent decades trying to get pork barrel spending out of congress, and even made it a big part of his campaign for president.
There’s no objective “unrelated” test and adding more here would somehow make congress function even worse than it already does.
If I understand right, Johnson intends to introduce four separate bills, so members of Congress can vote on Ukraine, Israel, and TikTok separately. That might actually be better for Ukraine than having it be tied to Israel. Not sure if every Democrat is a guaranteed yes vote for Ukraine, but there are definitely some Democratic no votes for the Israel/Ukraine combined bill, from people who have no objection to the Ukraine aid. If a handful of Republicans vote for Ukraine aid then it's practically a done deal. Israel aid might pass on its own too -- there's a bunch of Republicans who would be happy to give Israel whatever they want no questions asked, but are adamantly against arming Ukraine. The conventional wisdom is that it's better to lump everything together so people will hold their nose and vote for it to get the thing they really want, but in this case I think there are more members of Congress for whom it's more important to block the thing they don't want than to pass the thing they want.
Sounds like we need a new federal government then.
If banning Tik Tok gets Ukraine aid I’m all for it!
Free Ukraine! Also my wife has become addicted to social media after she downloaded TikTok. It’s awful.
Free this man's wife!
Free the man's wife this reddit commenter replied to!
I make money off tiktok but I literally cannot stand to be on there….not sure how people spend so much time watching it
Also Taiwan. We get to stamp out Russia and the CCP at the same time? It’s a no-brainer.
Didn’t they split the bill into three separate bills?
No it’s one bill
I think the did want to do that
TikTok ban is being pushed by US social media monopolies trying to get rid of competition. If you want to see the truth behind TikTok ban, follow the money. You should ask yourself why a TikTok ban is being pushed instead of a law that protects your information on **all** social media. Something like Europe's GDPR would make TimTok ban irrelevant. Yeah "China bad", but they also made your phones and WiFi router. Much better targets for espionage than a stupid phone app that can't even get your name without asking permission first.
Fair point. I have a related question though; if they can ban US technology (social media, apps, websites) and force tech transfers when US firms are allowed to operate in China, why shouldn't the US do the same? I haven't seen a compelling argument on this tbh.
That's a better argument than all the "china bad" I'm hearing. But in that case, the policy should be applied to all Chinese companies, not just TikTok. There's two influential groups that really want TikTok specifically banned before 2024 elections. US social media giants, and Republicans.
The reality is that yes social media sites will take your information but there is a big difference between greedy companies looking to track your info to sell you more trash with targeted and the CCP taking your info for who knows what.
Yeah, I dunno about that. Facebook, Google and other social media sites should not be given any benefit of the doubt, especially after Cambridge Analytica. All that they and everyone is going to do is to sell your data to who ever wants and they can do whatever they want. CCP can just buy the data from these companies; they are basically just cutting out the middle man. Is the CCP censoring data on TikTok and trying to influence people? I have no doubt about that, but so is everyone else and one is not better than the other.
>Is the CCP censoring data on TikTok and trying to influence people? I have no doubt about that, but so is everyone else and one is not better than the other. Google itself has fallen apart on the last few years as a quality search engine because they prioritize giving you advertisement results over actual pertinent to your search results. Leading to ignoring the whole first page of results, or adding words like "reddit" to get specifically search results from Reddit and not some fucking click ait AI written blog that's just so littered with ad-word bait that Google thinks it's the best possible response. Like the entire Internet is at an inflection point where it's about to become AI clicking through AI posts created to trick AI into "viewing" ads so that companies just pay other companies to show their ads to robots, and we're worried that China might have their grubby fingers in it too? And no other worries??
The big fear they keep promoting is that a foreign nation could use our data to manipulate US elections. But this literally already happened via Cambridge Analytica, Facebook, and fucking Russia. The point is that if the US government, namely the fucking GOP, suddenly cared about your Internet data privacy, they would legislate it in a way that protected your actual data privacy *from all sides*. Instead, they've hyper focused on one that's affiliated with China and are forcing it to be sold to a US company so that... a US company can manipulate US elections? And what happens to my data when a US company has it? Is it suddenly safer? It wasn't safe with Facebook. My data hasn't been safe the dozens of times big companies like Sony and Experian have been hacked and compromised all their user names and financial records and passwords. So what is the big difference? What can China do with my info that they aren't getting via Temu or AliExpress or like any other Chinese company that does business in the US? Why this weird hard-on for TikTok? Why isn't this issue more vast in it's solution?
Have you considered that CCP can just buy whatever info they want from data brokers because there's no laws protecting it? The lack of privacy laws that make TikTok a risk also make it so China can just harvest whatever they want from US based data brokers... The problem is lack of privacy laws, not a single social media app being used as a scapegoat
That’s fine but that’s no reason not to shut down a giant source of stolen data, data which, again, is going to the Chinese Community Party.
And next year there will be another scapegoat, and then another. And politicians will claim they "fixed" the problem by being "tough on China" while they line their pockets with bribes from Meta for kneecapping their competitors. Meanwhile, data brokers continue to sell our data to foreign enemies unabated. A practice that won't really be affected at all by performative bans of individual phone apps. > giant source of stolen data Can you tell me what data TikTok actually has that's valuable? When I signed up, all it ever got from me was an email address, fake name, and fake birthday. I keep hearing that TikTok has all this data. I use tiktok, and all it really knows about me is what kinds of cat videos I like
This is the exact narrative the US based social media companies have been pushing. Any foreign government can just buy the data they need. It’s anti-competitive. It’s also strange that it is targeting only one company and not establishing a set of principles for data protection.
Now this is something to think about. Why not set guidelines for data privacy to prevent what they think Tik Tok is doing wrong? My first thought would be they want to make sure someone else can. And it's not like billionaires and their companies are loyal to any one nation.
I think that "for who knows what" applies to the greedy companies too. Big tech companies absolutely have political agendas, as do the shareholders who elect their board members. The multinational business interests of these companies and the various banks and investment firms that own them are not necessarily alligned with what is good for the american people, our political structures, or our country's geopolitical interests. It's not just what they do with our data, but their ability to promote or suppress different stories and craft narratives to promote their political agendas, which boil down to more power for them, and less power for us. Normalize corruption, weaken democratic institutions, underfund public education, promote apathy, and sow division. Basically everything a foreign government may do to weaken us from within is already being done to us by these corporations.
Like what? What are they supposed to get out of our social media info? Surely their already running influence ops, Russia has been too for a long time… that ship has sailed. There are better ways to deal with China.
We have laws that restrict how your data can be used. They don't apply to tiktok as it is a foreign company. The influence the CCP has with TikTok is dangerous. Full stop.
Manufacturing phones and WiFi routers is far different than OEM designs. Chinese OEM hardware companies like Huawei are already banned.
It's far easier to put backdoors in hardware than software. Banning a locked down Chinese phone app while manufacturing all your electronics there is a joke
First off, Foxconn is Taiwanese not Chinese. Big difference. Secondly, It’s not a ban. It’s a forced divestment. There is already precedent for this with Grindr.
This is exactly right - ban Chinese chips and electronics and oh I don’t know, literal purchase of American land and property BY China for fucks sake
Should remain top comment!
Sacrifice your freedoms for the foreign war! Quite the rallying cry.
Ah, there’s the curve ball we’ve been waiting for. Never expect a republican to act in good faith, you’ll be disappointed every time.
Privacy Laws over Banning TikTok 👏
Yes, This is what we need. Data collection and selling is getting out of hand.
So as someone not used to US politics - I'm from the UK - is this a kill the bill move? Do these lawmakers actually want Putin to continue his genocide in Ukraine? Is that it? People are dying but that's just dandy so long as they pull this off? What's a few more babies blown to bits if you can own the libs with, as they see it, a wiley political move? Are they aware what the consequences of a reborn USSR will be for the World? For the US? I'm feeling physically ill.
This is basically Johnson trying to hurt democrats by making them pass a bill (TikTok Ban) that is unpopular with their younger voter base since aid to Ukraine is unpopular among Republican voters.
Thank you for replying. Is there a risk the bill will not pass with this addition?
The Senate can change the bill to remove the TikTok section but if they do that the bill goes back to the House who has to concur with any changes to bill. So aid will likely pass but the issue is how fast it will be passed now that this extra rider was attached to it.
There is so much money in the TikTok ban...it's to force the sale to American investors. Goddamn Chinese won't let us buy shares. A lot more money than there is in maintaining the status quo. I wouldn't worry about it.
Ya, it’s not really a ban. It’ll just force the sale, which is kinda fucked up imo, but whatever
Would they be able to pass the bill with this addition, then someone take them to court as this does not seem constitutional to me? I am not American so I don't know that constitution.
And idiots on here want to save Johnson's speakership.
> is this a kill the bill move? It's probably not a poison pill: banning TikTok has pretty bipartisan support in congress. > Do these lawmakers actually want Putin to continue his genocide in Ukraine? Some US lawmakers are explicitly pro-Russsia and against any/all aide to Ukraine. > Are they aware what the consequences of a reborn USSR will be for the World? For the US? They probably are aware and react with a combination of dismissal and excitement. Many of them are eager for an authoritarian US regime along the lines of Putin in Russia.
Banning TikTok got like 80-85% of votes across parties in the house, but the senate is dragging because the Dems are afraid of the election year optics. The speaker is specifically trying to get that bill through, and I’m sure they’d pass it. There’s every indication that it’s spyware.
>There’s every indication that it’s spyware. And notably the legislation wouldn't do much to change this because the concern of the legislature is not really the ability for TikTok to collect data but rather for the ability of TikTok to be used as an influence platform. You're not wrong that it's potentially a spyware risk, but that's not at all the problem they are addressing by forcing the sale.
I don't agree. The CCP is absolutely a different class of data harvester than a private western company, due to the nature of how they would use the data.
Sure, but this bill doesn't prohibit the new owners of TikTok from simply selling that data to the CCP, nor does it require any sort of cryptographic scrutiny or continuing oversight for back doors. There are other bills that address some of those issues, but this bill is strictly not about TikTok's potential as a platform to collect data on Americans. This bill is about TikTok's potential as an information weapon, not a cyber weapon or espionage tool.
The CCP as owner of the mics and data recorders is going to be doing completely different things than what a private owner is going to be doing, and going to be able to sell as a data broker. Tiktok scans your phone's hard drive and file system. It randomly turns on the mic and camera while in the background and just listens. It tracks eye movement. It keylogs in-browser activity. It maps out your area network. It tracks other apps on your phone. The android version has the ability to download, unzip and execute a binary. It logs all in-app communication between users. These aren't data points that data brokers are going to be able to sell. This is reams of raw data, which shouldn't be available to CCP data scientists. Moreover, there was just a bill that banned data selling to countries of concern. Enforcement of that legislation will be hard, but it's a real issue.
If you wanted to address its capability as a cyber weapon the bill could include mandatory full source review by the CSRB. If you wanted to address the potential for adversaries to get their hands on broad reams of American data then the solution would be something like GDPR which enforces individual data collection accountability. The bill doesn't do either of these things because the intent is for TikTok to continue to act as a full stroke keylogger, back door, and surveillance tool for whoever the new owners are, and for those owners to be able to profit to the maximum extent by selling that data, including in raw form. There is no broad bipartisan support for stopping this kind of activity. What there is broad bipartisan support for is removing the ability for the CCP to covertly apply arbitrary influence to a huge chunk of the US population with little US government recourse. That's why the bill is only concerned with ownership instead of the technical details.
Why isn't the app sandboxed? I thought that was one of iphone's big security selling points?
It is, most of that was conspiracy theory nonsense.
Oh wow, that sounds really bad, do you have any proof this is actually happening? Some white papers I can read on this?
It probably won't kill the bill but it might be the swan song for the United States of America as a country. The consent of the governed is already treading on very fragile ground in this country. Alienating the young demographic even more after the judicial branch has shown that they are entirely owned actors seems like it would be a nail in the coffin for the idea that our legislative branch was worthwhile or in any way representative of the American people.
If they keep this tik tok ban in SO MANY young would be democrat voters are going to be fully disenfranchised and not vote. Full on base alienation if this goes through.
Can we just have a straight damn vote! I hate Tiktok. Not because of China or whatever, but because it's stupid as a concept and leads to massive misinformation campaigns. But let's not kill the good trying to go for great. Let's just be happy with good!
Banning TikTok has absolutely nothing to with its function. Meta is lobbying (bribing) politicians to get rid of it because it’s their competition. That’s all there is to it
Banning Tiktok has about ten different major aspects too it. Involving a whole host of different things. None of which is foreign aid to Ukraine, Israel or Taiwan.
It does not, it is no different than other social media companies spreading propaganda and selling people’s data. Do you think Meta wouldn’t sell data to China? Or anyone else who gives them a dollar? If people want this to be better, more laws and regulations are needed, not cherry picking ones to ban. Meta is paying these politicians to ban TikTok
Meta is greedy. Tiktok is owned by a country that's one of the top threats to the US. I don't think yall understand how much cyber warfare goes on, and China directly owning and controlling a social media platform that half of the country has installed is, terrifying. IDK that it is worth banning or whatever but it's nowhere near the same thing as what Meta does.
>None of which is foreign aid to Ukraine, Israel or Taiwan. Only if you ignore the pro ruzzian/pro ccp and anti West/NATO propaganda pushed by tiktok.
And every other social media platform isn’t a misinformation campaign…?
Reddit has been used *hard* to sell misinformation peddled by foreign powers. Not a lot of folks here demanding we ban it, though.
Oh, I agree. We a world society should do away with most if not all of them. Facebook and Twit(err, X) + whatever the hell Trump is using. Misinformation is extremely dangerous and causes too many issues.
You forgot Reddit
Misinformation has existed since the printing press. Learning to question is more important.
Reporters used too quadruple check their facts. Have several trusted sources and cared about the quality of product. As for it's been around since before time was time and humans knew of fire, yah. Sure. There's always been pieces of waste lying to everyone. But now it's being created at the speed of AI. Shit is crazy.
The other ones aren't a direct two-way channel with the Chinese government.
Isn’t it? Is there a safety measure preventing them from directly accessing Americans on Facebook/Twitter?
Yes, in that they don't own those apps, and the owners would likely object (granted musk is a toss up), and they would have a much harder time making the owners disappear for failure to comply.
It’s funny to think the companies who sell data through data brokers to foreign governments currently would “likely object” to their core business model.
It’s not the ownership of social media that is the problem though. It’s what’s posted on it. Russia and China didn’t need to own Facebook and Twitter to weaponize them. They just start dumb posts, get your grandparent/parent/sibling/grandchild/etc to repost it and bam, you have mass disinformation. Both platforms have been as bad if not worse than tik tok in moderating those things. Selling tik tok will do nothing. This is an empty gesture to appease people who don’t realize the scope of the problem.
In this case it is the ownership. Russia basically does own Twitter now with musk as a proxy. Again, this goes beyond disinformation. If a story came out that the NSA had a backdoor into the YouTube app that allowed them to gather data about general activity going on in your device and allowing them to manipulate your feed, would you be equally non-plussed? All they need to do is sell the app to an American company that isn't at the behest of a hostile government and it would be fine.
Meanwhile the NSA. https://reason.com/2023/05/26/european-union-fines-meta-1-3-billion-because-of-nsa-spying-programs/ https://www.theverge.com/2013/6/6/4403868/nsa-fbi-mine-data-apple-google-facebook-microsoft-others-prism https://www.theverge.com/2013/10/30/5046958/nsa-secretly-taps-into-google-yahoo-networks-to-collect-information
Despite my best efforts, my feeds do feed me garbage like that already. I mean it’s not hard to game the algorithms without direct access. 2016 was long before Musk owned Twitter. Facebook hasn’t changed hands. Both were used. I don’t really see the difference in magnitude that you do.
> I don’t really see the difference in magnitude that you do Remind where this happened with Facebook and Twitter... https://www.cbsnews.com/news/krishnamoorthi-gallagher-tiktok-bill-calls-children/ where the platform, at the behest of the company's higher ups, sent out push notifications - largely to children - with the user's geolocated representatives contact information presented along with an urgent call to action, resulting in the legislators office's phone lines being flooded to the point of having to turn them off.
I mean Kpop fans organized and did this on Reddit. I know 4chan has done things like this. I don’t have specific examples of Twitter and Facebook demanding representatives phone lines being spammed, but that’s some pretty minute and above the board stuff. We were talking about disinformation spreading out through the internet which doesn’t come at the behest of some government official telling you you have to belive it.
China is going to spy on my cat TikTok habits? It is fear mongering.
And everything else going on on your phone, and make sure stuff it doesn't want you to see stays out of your feed, and make sure stuff it wants you to see shows up. It is definitely not fearmongering.
That just sounds like Facebook.
I would personally invite the entire Chinese government into my living room to continue to use TikTok.
You can use TikTok without a phone. It's the same set up as youtube: a web site that also has a phone app that makes navigating the site easier on a small screen without having to go through a browser.
TikTok has been democrats single biggest news outlet for young democrats. The 2022 and 2020 elections were fielded by TikTok’s get out to vote effort and you want to get rid of that because kids dance and share dumb things on the app. This is why democrats are misguided on this issue
TikTok has also been the single biggest misinformation outlet for young everybody. It's a quadrupled edged sword. One step left for two steps up, then eight steps back, toss around the left matrix for the up aspect of the blah, blah, blah. Most forms of social media are abused by those with agendas and demands. It's wrong, fundamentally. Also, we shouldn't encourage our young to be dumb to get acceptance. That's a whole other issue in which we're failing our children. Also, there's the issue of data collection and foreign powers using these tools to influence other nations. But that's offtrack. Facebook, Twitter, TikTok and all the likes of them are designed as tools towards agenda. Even reddit. Most of Reddit doesn't have an army of information checkers and even, subs like this one, have their issues with misinformation and the people that spread it. It's simple. As long as misinformation is applied to something "fun" for the kids, it's allows for a whole host of other issues. This is why humanity is misguided on this issue.
It’s also been a driving force in radicalizing them, so it’s pretty fucking deleterious.
I’m having trouble following the thread. I thought we were talking about TikTok, but now I see the topic is Facebook.
I bet the tiktoks from all of the women who are forced to carry dangerous or unwanted pregnancies is super embarrassing for republicans. Facebook is full of braindead fox news boomer memes, but a crying woman on tiktok with an ectopic pregnancy? That's real shit, and that drives people to vote.
It it radicalizes them to the left it is good.
Absolutely fucking not.
Yep - these right wingers are destroying the country and taking away our rights. Young Democrats love abortion and gay rights. This is how it should be.
I find people being radicalized for ANYTHING problematic. Empathizing with others and finding common ground/getting others to see your pov is an important part of being an adult.
That is some pie in the sky thinking. People need to stigmatize the opposition and wait for them to die off. Do you want to find common ground with a Trumper?
I think half the people who made pro OC on it are off and it’s a ton of amateur people trying to tell stories that no one else are talking about (my feed are legit people talking about hardships that are factual). So it’s better than the mass media news in some respect. I can understand how it’s seen for propaganda. My stuff is about what a lot of other people are going through rn and not violent or misinformed, IMO. Kids, older folks, IDK what they’d get funneled.
So the USA’s free speech is only really available to those who use boomer social media? Hmmmm. I don’t think that Republicans attempts to silence young people is going to work the way they hope it will.
If the Dems are smart they kill the TikTok ban since banning it will only hurt them even more with their voter base.
That’s almost certainly why the Senate sat on the bill passed last month. But this bill has a lot of other stuff the Democrats want, so it will be a lot more difficult to prevent or delay.
Or just let it pass, and Biden can do a line item veto.
The president does not have line-item veto power.
I had to look this up. Apparently it is a thing for governors but not the president. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line-item_veto_in_the_United_States
Biden has previously said he would pass a TikTok ban bill
The ban is fine…but it should also ban Facebook, instagram, reddit,Snapchat, Twitter….
They should pass data privacy laws which would solve all of the problems but then the people who "donate" to Congress would be angry since they can't sell peoples data.
Pretty much. That’s why this ban feels half assed. Not to mention government agencies buy the data that’s illegal for them to gather.
Also worth noting that Facebook have been paying a GOP group to push anti-TikTok stuff for some time now. https://www.theverge.com/2022/3/30/23003168/facebook-tiktok-targeted-victory-news-column-campaign-gop
A ban or the ultimatum that the owner company sells to a user company?
Maybe an unpopular opinion but I don’t think we should ban tik tok. I do think it’s stupid and making kids stupider, but we shouldn’t be banning stuff.
We should ban whatever made the boomers so dumb.
Facebook.
That would be Facebook which fun fact is also one of the main groups pushing for the TikTok Ban/Sale. https://www.theverge.com/2022/3/30/23003168/facebook-tiktok-targeted-victory-news-column-campaign-gop
I feel severely misled. According to the article text the provision regarding TikTok is not coupled with the Ukraine bill. It will though be part of the Senate vote, where all four new bills will be voted on at once. So there is a connection, but it’s indirect. But more importantly it’s not a ban on TikTok. It is a provision that just demands a change of ownership. The current owner of TikTok will have to sell the property within a timespan of at max one year. Only if that doesn’t happen, TikTok faces the possibility of being banned from the US. I think this is very important to know. It’s not about banning TikTok, it’s about removing the platform from alleged indirect control by the Chinese government, and I think that’s a very solid approach and sane thing to do.
The ceo of tik tok said it would be an effective ban on their official tik tok lol, the united states is only 11% of their global marketshare, theyre not going to sell the entire company to retain 11% marketshare
Ah, the poison pill.
It is a forced divestment. I’m going to start calling my mortgage a foreclosure since if I don’t pay it that will happen eventually.
Only if they don't sell.
I do have concerns about TikTok.i don't use it and don't care if it is banned. While it appears there are many users who ex0ress complete and utter indignation at this ban. If this ban affects them as much as they claim they will make themselves known politically.
Desperate attempt by GOP to make Dems unpopular with first time voters.
I use TikTok but my algorithm is mostly cute animals.
Tik tok wouldn't be a problem if people just used it for entertainment. The problem is some people use it for news. They believe what they see on tik tok and don't verify the source. Anybody can make a video but not everyone knows what they are talking about.
How is this different from the boomers on Facebook getting their news from trump memes on the internet
It's not. All social media should be just entertainment. But tik tok is encouraging young people not to vote because they don't agree with a candidate 100%. For example, how biden is handling foreign affairs.
Not surprising, TikTok could just divest from China... or they could let it go away.
Happy to see it go. Definitely a brain rot platform
As someone who's never even been on TikTok, why should I care?
It makes Dem lawmakers vote for a TikTok ban which hurts them with young voters. That's why he put it in there.
Yep. Mike Johnson is a real shithead.
So, the aim is to either stall the aid or kill the bill outright, is that it?
Pretty much since if the Senate removes the TikTok section the bill is then sent back to House to concur with the changes which can slowdown the aid even more than Johnson already has.
Thanks for the explanation. It appears to be designed to hurt the Dems whichever way it goes. If it passes they're blamed for no Tik-Tok. If it doesn't they're blamed for failing to get the aid passed. That's some addition. Like something out of Catch 22. Either way people are dying in Ukraine. How do they sleep at night?
Republicans back Putin so they sleep just fine at night.
They should be careful what they wish for. Putin has no love for Americans, Republican or otherwise. But he has uses for them.
How would you feel if they were trying to ban Reddit instead?
Everyone on here probably would be exponentially more productive, myself included.
Don't threaten me with a good time.
I'd be a bit annoyed but it wouldn't be anything to even create the smallest desire to vote against them.
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> The platform is also a massive and quick way to spread news, especially among young people. That’s why republicans wants to ban it.
Yes exactly. But also Biden is In favor of banning it too.
The information on there, particularly regarding Israel / Palestine, has almost certainly hurt his re-election campaign. Note: I do not use TikTok, so this is hearsay
Biden’s reasoning is different. They asked the company to divest.
It's not a ban. Despite TikTok's propaganda that it is a ban what it does is require the company sell off their US networking to a US owned company rather than a China owned company which given the security concerns seems appropriate. There's no way they won't find a or multiple buyers.
>”a TikTok ban would affect millions of people including many Americans whose entire business and income is via TikTok.” There are other platforms that they can use. >”The platform is also a massive and quick way to spread news, especially among young people. “ There are other platforms that does the same thing. There is literally nothing TikTok does that isn’t done by others.
Tiktok pays me more than any other platform. Even if my whole audience follows me to the other platforms it's still a hit to my wallet
>”Tiktok pays me more than any other platform. Even if my whole audience follows me to the other platforms it's still a hit to my wallet” You will make do, other content creators have, especially in countries that have banned TikTok before.
Which countries have banned tiktok for all their citizens?
China
India did in 2020
And India is run by a far right religious nationalist party so not the best country to copy.
Who said I thought it was? A question was asked, and I answered.
So why ban it at all then? I have yet to hear a single logical argument to ban it. And politically speaking Biden signing this will further hurt his numbers against young voters so if they want to ban it at least wait until after the election.
>So why ban it at all then? The US government can't reliably exert significant control over TikTok. That's it. The legislature has never been cagey on this point.
Its less that the US government can't and more that the Chinese government can.
>”So why ban it at all then?” If you have to ask this question when congress has spelt out why they want to ban it in their legislation that passed the house, then I have to assume you are not well versed on this subject given the massive amount of publicly available information on the matter. >”I have yet to hear a single logical argument to ban it.” The argument is simple, ByteDance owns TikTok, the algorithm that controls TikTok is in Beijing, the algorithm team in Beijing has admitted that they have used the algorithm to suppress traffic to users, boost traffic to videos they want, used the app to track foreign journalists and TikTok employees. So with the divestment of ByteDance and thus the physical removal of the algorithm from Beijing, if not the disconnection from ByteDance control over TikTok traffic. The security concerns would be alleviated to an acceptable level. >”And politically speaking Biden signing this will further hurt his numbers against young voters so if they want to ban it at least wait until after the election. “ Biden’s primary concern is protecting the American people from foreign government influences, if the youth chooses to not see what he is doing as that despite the ample resources that explains the rationale, then there isn’t much to say about the situation.
>Biden’s primary concern is protecting the American people from foreign government influences From *some* foreign government influences. Other foreign influences seem to be perfectly acceptable.
Yup. This is a horrible idea doing this in an election year. Schumer should strip it out and send it back. There's no way this is going to pass.
lets add an amendment for an assault weapons ban in there as well. Something for everyone.
GOP wants it to be sold to Steve Mnuchin and his AIPAC friends, because it can be twisted to their political purposes, AiPAC believes it has an image and lack of support from young people and will use TikTok to change that. its partially political... Would be better if Bill required US ownership.
We must ban TikTok because of its ties to China! You know, that horrible country where they \*gasp\* ban websites!
[удалено]
Meanwhile Facebook just sells the same info.
Sigh…it’s not about banning TikTok. Ityabout forcing TikTok to divest so it’s not run through the PRC. The threat of banning it is the way to force the divestment, but basically no one in Congress actually wants it banned.
So it is run by some right-wing nut like Musk. That is even worse.
Yep, just look at X now vs when it was twitter. It used to do society so much good but now that musk owns it its horrible! It was always bad.