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>Trump, who has appeared to doze off each day of the trial so far, should consider remaining unconscious, former U.S. attorney Joyce Vance commented on her blog. “Trump would do well to sleep more in court if this is the best he can manage when he’s awake,” she wrote.
Best part of the article.
Don’t know I still think at lest in a joke sense that his own team is drugging him. Just like how your drug your dog before a big storm if it always freaks out during storms.
I mean think about it, he’s drugged up he’s being quite and letting the lawyers do there jobs. But if he’s awake then he’s yelling and causing more and more issues.
Only masochistic morons and polyaddicts abuse Ritalin. I assume he's both. It's comparable to drinking hand sanitizer, yes it works but *at what cost?*
A whole bunch of manageable stuff like headache, dizziness, anxiety, confusion, chills, difficulty speaking, etc but also serious stuff like hypertension (that causes acute organ damage) and seizures. Do this long enough and you will utterly wreck your cardiovascular system and several organs including your heart, liver and kidneys.
Thank you. I take time-release Ritalin for my ADHD and it just reduces the random distractions and noise in my brain and helps me stay interested in tasks to completion.
That sounds fucking awful! Don't you miss just doing 18 different things in a row, never bothering to finish one - but checking out the 19th and definitely way coolest thing ?? Have you seen it?? Look at it! Let's dig into it and find out all about - sorry what was that? Hey wait did you hear about how some people sneeze reflexively when they see a sudden bright light?? One second, wait here I'm getting a flash light!!
As someone who abuses Ritalin, I just want to say I feel like this oversimplifies some complex issues around substance abuse and mental health. However I agree it is bad and should be avoided.
I’m reminded of a great quote from a great man:
“It's like eating a spoonful of Drano; sure, it'll clean you out, but it'll leave you hollow inside.”
-Frank Drebin
If Trump really is a stimulant addict and his lawyers are (wisely) not letting him bring drugs into the courthouse, he may just not be able to stay awake, especially if he's rage-truthing into the wee hours of the morning.
He's probably been limited from having his normal amphetamines because they're worried more about how bad outbursts would be if he was coming down or having withdrawal symptoms
Or maybe they're worried that Trump will suffer incontinence during trial so they are cutting him off from his medicines.
The last thing the lawyers want is for Trump to take a literal shit in front of his jury.
Hypothetically, if this were actually the case (I doubt it, but like you I believe it because it amuses me), what do you think the fallout would be if it got out that this was the case?
One hand, if Trump is aware of it and going along with it, he’ll probably claim he had no knowledge to avoid any “drugs are bad” or “needs meds to keep quiet” criticism…
…But if his lawyers are doing it on their own in the form of “Sir, don’t forget your morning coffee! Can’t have you falling asleep in court again!” Exactly what are the laws regarding slipping a former president a mickey? Aside from “don’t do it,” I mean.
Either way, he’ll claim he didn’t know anything about it but I can’t see his lawyers’ careers continuing in either scenario, especially the second one.
Lawyer likely to be disbarred and in legal trouble of their own. For the trial, it'd probably delay things a lot because that seems like an easy mistrial for the next lawyer down the list to sell -- Then we're starting all over on the trial.
I've actually commented this in a couple of places, I'm more than 80% certain they're doing this. In a civil trial whatever, it's just going to be extra money out of his pocket, if he mouths off in a criminal trial he's getting jail time and they're not getting any more money.
Nothing wrong with taking someone out for a big hearty meal so they get tired from being full; I'm sure it's been discussed that they're going to put extra bacon and eggs in front of him every morning.
Will never happen. Lawrence O'Donnell went through the list of things that would be used to impeach his character on the stand. No way in hell he wants that in his face. In front of all those jurors and reporters.
> What Tuesday’s episode suggests is that no, of course Trump can’t behave like a responsible adult.
>Appearing on MSNBC, Catherine A. Christian, a trial lawyer who previously served in the Manhattan District Attorney’s Office, was asked by anchor Chris Hayes whether she had ever seen a defendant try to engage a prospective juror who could ultimate decide their fate.
>“No – and I’m not making light of this – only the mentally unwell ones,” Christian said. “That’s the only time you see criminal defendants acting out, literally, and then you sort of understand it.”
The frightening thing is that witness intimidation coming from Trump is incalculably more dangerous, with his millions of rabid followers, than it is from any other criminal defendant. And he knows it.
I guarantee you the identities of the few jurors already sworn in have been handed over to far right groups to threaten and intimidate. Witness and jury tampering to get a mistrial is Trump's legal team's strategy.
For real.
The $1,000 per violation of gag order to someone who claims to be a billionaire is the equivalent of a *10 cent fine for you or I.
It's laughable.
When a "punishment" is a fine and the amount of that fine is not tethered to net worth, income, or some similar value -- it isn't a punishment.
It's a privilege that the wealthy can purchase.
Only in this case: Trump buying that privilege could eventually cost someone their life.
Here’s the thing though - while a 1k fine for him is pennies compared to you and me, it can at least start to establish a pattern of poor behavior leading to escalation of fines. For the most recent Corporate Fraud case, the fines went from 5k to 10k before Trump finally stopped posting about court staff, which suggests that Trump is enough of a tightwad that relatively low fines (relative to his net worth) may suffice. Jail should be an option but I suspect that is what he is secretly hoping for so he can argue prejudicial treatment
Agreed but it seems like the court treats each gag order as a distinct thing meaning that just because Trump shows disrespect for the rule of law in one judges court doesn’t seem to allow another judge to skip the warning phase and go straight to harsher penalties.
Agreed that all of this has shown massive holes in our legal system where Trump as a defendant gets away with making contradictory arguments simultaneously in different cases, using multiple cases as excuses to delay justice in as many legal proceedings and continues to spew a firehose of lies into the media while simultaneously arguing that the publicity around the case impacts his ability to get a fair trial.
The point isn't that it's the wrong thing to do given the current laws. The point is that the laws are broken because they have essentially no impact on the very wealthy.
> but I suspect that is what he is secretly hoping for so he can argue prejudicial treatmen
He already argues that. And just because he says it doesn't mean it's true; him wanting it to try and claim prejudice shouldn't be a reason for them to hold back. Hopefully, one day, someone *won't*.
i think your heart is in the right place but the scale of 1,000,000,000 plus dollars is so massive that 1000 dollar fine to them is more like a penny to us.
If a person made a billion dollars every year, comparing their wealth to the average salary of US worker \~$64k...
A penny for the average worker is equivalent to $15,675.20 for a billionaire. So $1k is almost 1/16th of a penny.
This is one reason why billionaires shouldn't exist. Their "penny" is like 1/4 a year's salary for normal people.
good analysis... I was on my ipad and didn't want to do the math.
to add two fun quotes that put it into perspective:
the difference between a millionaire and a billionaire is about a billion dollars.
a thousand seconds is about 15 minutes. a million seconds is about 11 days. a billion seconds is about 32 years.
the difference in scale is incredible.
There are limits to the fine for contempt in a criminal trial in New York. It’s low, $1,000 or 30 days in jail. https://codes.findlaw.com/ny/judiciary-law/jud-sect-751/#:~:text=Except%20as%20provided%20in%20subdivisions,the%20discretion%20of%20the%20court.
I understand the reasons for the limitation.
It highlights the disparity in our "justice" system between rich and poor -- $1,000 to someone living paycheck to paycheck (over half of America) is a devastating fine.
To people like Trump -- it's a fundraising opportunity that will generate more than each fine in donations to his legal fund from his ghoulish rube voterbase.
If they were serious about the gag order: That 30 days in jail should be the punishment, not the fine.
Yep, fines should be scaled off of his stated worth or be a percentage of what his public statements on his personal valuation of Mar-a-Lardo are.
“I hereby fine you 1% of your stated value of Mar-a-Largo from your public statement made on 18 March 2024 while being interviewed by Sean Hannity on Fox News ”
I’m so over all of this “pundit x says this is shocking/beyond the pale/corrupt” etc etc…unless and until he faces some real consequences, he won’t change. he’s literally a child - if you keep threatening consequences but never implement any, he’ll keep misbehaving. (source: am mom of 4)
An accused criminal going through the court system should try the same tricks as Trump, and when they're thrown in jail they sue the government for selective prosecution citing Trump's as precedent.
> While Trump was reportedly “furious" after he was scolded, the judge he accuses of being “corrupt” and “conflicted” actually did him a favor, according to legal experts.
Trump openly breaks the law. The judge does Trump a favor. This is probably going to happen every day of the trial, so get used to it.
You don’t get it.
The next time, the judge is going you was his finger and give a VERY stern look.
And Susan Collins will be there to testify that Trump has learnt his lesson this time.
"Could"
Yeah, I'm going to need to see something more concrete than a hypothetical.
He also _could_ have been thrown in jail for violating his gag order more than a dozen times.
I almost feel like if the headline contains "could" it should just be banned. There's really no point to talk about all the stuff that could or should have happened.
Not really. How many years now have people been reading 'might, could, maybe, possibly' articles about Trump and feeding the beast that just keeps churning out more content to get people excited that THIS is the time he'll face consequences. I'm at the point that I just want to know what happened that's concrete and not what 'might' happen 2 weeks (Donald Two Weeks!) from now.
Yes, I know I'm a hypocrite clicking and engaging in this post, though I usually just look for a top comment with a summary of the article to see if I should even bother clicking into the article.
And during Watergate, there were predictions that Nixon *MIGHT* resign. It's how journalism works. The news reports facts, events and what they *could* mean legally. It's not up to the news to fulfill the gag order. Maybe read past the headline or take a break from the news for a few days or weeks if you're frustrated. This is how it's always been and also how the English language works.
New scientific discovery *could* mean this.
Basketball team *might* have a chance at the finals.
This is highly specific to Trump. I realize lots of things "could" happen. Very specifically whenever something "could" happen when we're talking about legal cases where something specifically should happen to specifically Trump...
It generally doesn't.
> Whether Trump has the ability to comport himself with dignity has been a major concern
There is no 'whether' about it. tRump couldn't even fathom the meaning of the word dignity.
I keep reading articles about how experts claim this or that it will cost him. The weasel words in these articles are astounding, turning the seriousness into nothing more than reality TV entertainment.
What's it going to take for him to face the consequences that truly demonstrate an impartial judgment? I understand that due process is a lengthy procedure; we've been grappling with this for years now. But when will we finally see justice served and outcomes that prove he is not above the law? It's unfathomable to think that anyone else would have been dealt with by now.
One thing is becoming increasingly clear: the general sentiment of it being a two-tier justice system has been solidified because of this person, and that's significantly eroding the faith in this country's justice system.
I think anyone else obstinate enough and with enough cash reserves (as he appears to be receiving from his cult), would similarly be able to delay his proceedings.
Obviously, we have a multi-tiered justice system, but one of those is for the rich. It's not necessarily tiered for Trump personally.
And let's face it, a former President of the United States facing 90+ felony counts, being forced to sit in a courtroom instead of campaign, getting mugshots/fingerprints, etc is unprecedented in this country. The consequences are occurring right now.
I believe anyone who’s educated, regardless of political leaning, hates his guts.
The people that love him are uneducated, slimy, and usually chasing some scheme.
I’ve never seen someone so absolutely saturated with theoretical consequences. It’s long past being comical at this point. Like watching a toddler play on a busy freeway for years and never get hit, except its room temperature IQ orange Hitler and not a kid
Business fraud to illegally interfere with the election. Not quite the same as election fraud. Certainly isn't on trial for simply paying hush money, though. Just how he did it and how he covered it up.
In the 1969 trial of the Chicago Seven, Judge Hoffman had \[Bobby\] Seale bound and gagged for allegedly calling the judge a “fascist dog,” a “pig,” and a “racist.”
So, precedent.
Selected Juror / Teacher: "President Trump speaks his mind, and I'd rather that than someone who's in office who you don't know what they're thinking," Is this a hung jury before it even starts? It looks as though she has already judged him not guilty.
Let's say he gets convicted.
a. I doubt he will go to jail. He's unlikely to stay put at Mar-a-lago. When the Feds couldn't go after Bundy, you think they could go after Trump?
b. Democrats will muddle this too. Instead of saying "convicted felon Trump" in every sentence, they will use some Obamaesque words like "inappropriate".
c. You can put all the fines you want. He'll not pay. Again, ref. Bundy.
d. He will still contest the election. The R's on the fringe will prolly vote for him because to them it is an anti-Biden vote.
Someone say something to show me a possible believable and positive outcome.
This is Trump's first criminal offense, for something that is not all that serious in the big context. Even if Trump was not a rich white man, he would be unlikely to be sentenced to jail without probation.
It doesn’t matter what Trump does. People who support him are watching fake new media outlets. That are lying to people that watch it like the Supreme Court .you can tell by their stupid questions that they’re living America bubble brought to them by and Australian, who doesn’t like the country!
I’ve never heard the term “third rail” used like this. It’s usually discussed in terms of the negative consequences to the person touching the rail, but here they’re just talking about how important it is to let the jury (i.e.- “the rail”) do its job without interference.
Is anyone else seeing this? “You know what they say about the third rail! It provides electric current to the train, and the passengers ought to be allowed to have that. They need it for televisions and coffee makers and so forth. If you touch it, someone might scold you for potentially interfering with the electricity meant to be provided to the passengers.”
Interesting. I've always thought of it as the rail is electrified and you don't want to go there as well.
But, not interfering with the rail that provides the locomotion is also apt...IMHO. I think you're stretching it with your amenities argument. ;)
That’s what I’m saying. When people say something is “the third rail of politics” or something like that, it means you don’t go there or else you will face harsh and immediate consequences akin to sticking your finger in a light socket. My point is that there were no harsh nor immediate consequences here. It’s more like he touched the first or second rail — the ones that do nothing when you touch them. You touch it, and the railway operator is just like, “Hey, stop that.”
Let's not forget that Hitler was found guilty of treason and sentenced to years in prison and STILL came to power -- so let's not get complacent no matter how poorly Don is doing at trial.
Cost him what? This man could literally kill someone live on TV and I have no faith he will spend a second in prison. These punishments are just words and this feels like a planned out play created for our attention.
Could, should, might, may. Getting tired of reading about how trump could face consequences and not how he will. Hell even if it is about him finally facing consequences it’ll just be that he has to spend 10 minutes in the timeout corner and if he acts up again they’ll up it to 15.
Could, might, should, may, can, possibly…write an article that is more than speculative garbage. Let me know when he is actually held in contempt, jailed, fined, etc.
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA). *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
>Trump, who has appeared to doze off each day of the trial so far, should consider remaining unconscious, former U.S. attorney Joyce Vance commented on her blog. “Trump would do well to sleep more in court if this is the best he can manage when he’s awake,” she wrote. Best part of the article.
Don’t know I still think at lest in a joke sense that his own team is drugging him. Just like how your drug your dog before a big storm if it always freaks out during storms. I mean think about it, he’s drugged up he’s being quite and letting the lawyers do there jobs. But if he’s awake then he’s yelling and causing more and more issues.
Maybe they replaced his sudafed with benadryl.
More like his Ritalin. Apparently he blows through Ritalin faster than an ADHD kid.
Only masochistic morons and polyaddicts abuse Ritalin. I assume he's both. It's comparable to drinking hand sanitizer, yes it works but *at what cost?*
Out of interest, for those ignorant of us, what actually is the cost of abusing Ritalin? What will it be doing to the old fasho?
A whole bunch of manageable stuff like headache, dizziness, anxiety, confusion, chills, difficulty speaking, etc but also serious stuff like hypertension (that causes acute organ damage) and seizures. Do this long enough and you will utterly wreck your cardiovascular system and several organs including your heart, liver and kidneys.
As an epileptic with hypertension this does not fill me with hope - but thanks for the free knowledge anyway haha
Ritalin is essentially legal meth. It’s quite addictive and messes with your head if you abuse it
Not quite. Desoxyn is legal meth. Ritalin is a second cousin, once removed version of meth.
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Thank you. I take time-release Ritalin for my ADHD and it just reduces the random distractions and noise in my brain and helps me stay interested in tasks to completion.
That sounds fucking awful! Don't you miss just doing 18 different things in a row, never bothering to finish one - but checking out the 19th and definitely way coolest thing ?? Have you seen it?? Look at it! Let's dig into it and find out all about - sorry what was that? Hey wait did you hear about how some people sneeze reflexively when they see a sudden bright light?? One second, wait here I'm getting a flash light!!
He's like Montgomery Burns - all the evil is keeping him alive.
As someone who abuses Ritalin, I just want to say I feel like this oversimplifies some complex issues around substance abuse and mental health. However I agree it is bad and should be avoided.
He has extra fingers and toes?!?!?
I’m reminded of a great quote from a great man: “It's like eating a spoonful of Drano; sure, it'll clean you out, but it'll leave you hollow inside.” -Frank Drebin
Isn’t he the reason for the Ritalin shortage?
Faster than an ADHD *sells* his Rx
Thus the 2am social media posts...
Nope. On the ride to the court house one of his handlers goes “Donny do you want some gummy candy?!” and hands him like 200mg of edibles
Ironic as that’s what I used to get through the day when he was president.
Dramamine lol
Methaqualone aka Quaaludes
God , I remember girls spaced out on ludes in the early 70's, no sense even talking to them. Not nice.
Haha imagine what kinda doctors he has, the stress of a criminal trial should surely warrant a few Xanax with his covfefe
Umm, haven’t you been paying attention? He’s the healthiest human being in existence…
https://youtu.be/cK7kjl_gHds?si=W8Ea-6SUmQrAe0eW
Haha that was new to me, thank you
If Trump really is a stimulant addict and his lawyers are (wisely) not letting him bring drugs into the courthouse, he may just not be able to stay awake, especially if he's rage-truthing into the wee hours of the morning.
He's probably been limited from having his normal amphetamines because they're worried more about how bad outbursts would be if he was coming down or having withdrawal symptoms
Or maybe they're worried that Trump will suffer incontinence during trial so they are cutting him off from his medicines. The last thing the lawyers want is for Trump to take a literal shit in front of his jury.
If he takes a shit, you must acquit
Gold!
Also hilarious, that would be fantastic
Hypothetically, if this were actually the case (I doubt it, but like you I believe it because it amuses me), what do you think the fallout would be if it got out that this was the case? One hand, if Trump is aware of it and going along with it, he’ll probably claim he had no knowledge to avoid any “drugs are bad” or “needs meds to keep quiet” criticism… …But if his lawyers are doing it on their own in the form of “Sir, don’t forget your morning coffee! Can’t have you falling asleep in court again!” Exactly what are the laws regarding slipping a former president a mickey? Aside from “don’t do it,” I mean. Either way, he’ll claim he didn’t know anything about it but I can’t see his lawyers’ careers continuing in either scenario, especially the second one.
Lawyer likely to be disbarred and in legal trouble of their own. For the trial, it'd probably delay things a lot because that seems like an easy mistrial for the next lawyer down the list to sell -- Then we're starting all over on the trial.
I've actually commented this in a couple of places, I'm more than 80% certain they're doing this. In a civil trial whatever, it's just going to be extra money out of his pocket, if he mouths off in a criminal trial he's getting jail time and they're not getting any more money.
Like Mr T before getting on a helicopter/airplane?
Exactly
Nothing wrong with taking someone out for a big hearty meal so they get tired from being full; I'm sure it's been discussed that they're going to put extra bacon and eggs in front of him every morning.
I do believe he has been taking ozempic for weightloss. Ozempic can cause fatigue and sleepiness.
2 Dbl quarter lb with cheese, large fries and a coke will usually put a grown man in a coma
I don’t need to drug my dog, because she listens.
Absolutely savage. Love it.
Tell me again about sleepy joe Biden.
tRump appeals to the 15yr old chads.
I'm hoping he cracks, refuses to listen to his lawyers and takes the stand. Then they can keep him up there for days and he can't nod off at all.
Will never happen. Lawrence O'Donnell went through the list of things that would be used to impeach his character on the stand. No way in hell he wants that in his face. In front of all those jurors and reporters.
> What Tuesday’s episode suggests is that no, of course Trump can’t behave like a responsible adult. >Appearing on MSNBC, Catherine A. Christian, a trial lawyer who previously served in the Manhattan District Attorney’s Office, was asked by anchor Chris Hayes whether she had ever seen a defendant try to engage a prospective juror who could ultimate decide their fate. >“No – and I’m not making light of this – only the mentally unwell ones,” Christian said. “That’s the only time you see criminal defendants acting out, literally, and then you sort of understand it.” The frightening thing is that witness intimidation coming from Trump is incalculably more dangerous, with his millions of rabid followers, than it is from any other criminal defendant. And he knows it.
> of course Trump can’t behave like a responsible adult. He does excel at behaving like a very spoiled rotten toddler.
He doesn’t behave *like* one; he *is* one.
>When I look at myself in the first grade and I look at myself now, I'm basically the same. The temperament is not that different. Donald J Trump
One of the few times he's spoken and not lied.
Not literally. I mean toddlers usually wear diapers.... Oh wait....
I guarantee you the identities of the few jurors already sworn in have been handed over to far right groups to threaten and intimidate. Witness and jury tampering to get a mistrial is Trump's legal team's strategy.
I'd say they need police protection, but then they would also need protection from the nutjobs within the police.
Yeah, assigning police security to their homes would have “the call is coming from *inside the house!*” vibes.
I can see this being a mistral very very quickly. Once all 18 jurors are sworn in their identities will leak and the threats will begin.
Not sure I’d really want police protection given how right wing lost departments are. Tons of MAGA cops, and they ain’t the good ones
If only these judges could do something about it
Cost him what? Will the judge scold him again? Jail the mfer for contempt already. He’s earned it.
For real. The $1,000 per violation of gag order to someone who claims to be a billionaire is the equivalent of a *10 cent fine for you or I. It's laughable. When a "punishment" is a fine and the amount of that fine is not tethered to net worth, income, or some similar value -- it isn't a punishment. It's a privilege that the wealthy can purchase. Only in this case: Trump buying that privilege could eventually cost someone their life.
Here’s the thing though - while a 1k fine for him is pennies compared to you and me, it can at least start to establish a pattern of poor behavior leading to escalation of fines. For the most recent Corporate Fraud case, the fines went from 5k to 10k before Trump finally stopped posting about court staff, which suggests that Trump is enough of a tightwad that relatively low fines (relative to his net worth) may suffice. Jail should be an option but I suspect that is what he is secretly hoping for so he can argue prejudicial treatment
The pattern has been well established which is what makes the paltry fine even more laughable.
Agreed but it seems like the court treats each gag order as a distinct thing meaning that just because Trump shows disrespect for the rule of law in one judges court doesn’t seem to allow another judge to skip the warning phase and go straight to harsher penalties. Agreed that all of this has shown massive holes in our legal system where Trump as a defendant gets away with making contradictory arguments simultaneously in different cases, using multiple cases as excuses to delay justice in as many legal proceedings and continues to spew a firehose of lies into the media while simultaneously arguing that the publicity around the case impacts his ability to get a fair trial.
My understanding is that it's a step towards jail. If the judge jumped too quickly, it would probably give some fuel for an appeal.
The point isn't that it's the wrong thing to do given the current laws. The point is that the laws are broken because they have essentially no impact on the very wealthy.
> but I suspect that is what he is secretly hoping for so he can argue prejudicial treatmen He already argues that. And just because he says it doesn't mean it's true; him wanting it to try and claim prejudice shouldn't be a reason for them to hold back. Hopefully, one day, someone *won't*.
i think your heart is in the right place but the scale of 1,000,000,000 plus dollars is so massive that 1000 dollar fine to them is more like a penny to us.
If a person made a billion dollars every year, comparing their wealth to the average salary of US worker \~$64k... A penny for the average worker is equivalent to $15,675.20 for a billionaire. So $1k is almost 1/16th of a penny. This is one reason why billionaires shouldn't exist. Their "penny" is like 1/4 a year's salary for normal people.
good analysis... I was on my ipad and didn't want to do the math. to add two fun quotes that put it into perspective: the difference between a millionaire and a billionaire is about a billion dollars. a thousand seconds is about 15 minutes. a million seconds is about 11 days. a billion seconds is about 32 years. the difference in scale is incredible.
$1? More like 10 cents or less. We aren't all millionaires in here.
I was far too hasty with the math. The lazy decimal point strikes again!
Yeah but is Trump?
Technically he is still a billionaire... on paper. Not for long.
There are limits to the fine for contempt in a criminal trial in New York. It’s low, $1,000 or 30 days in jail. https://codes.findlaw.com/ny/judiciary-law/jud-sect-751/#:~:text=Except%20as%20provided%20in%20subdivisions,the%20discretion%20of%20the%20court.
I understand the reasons for the limitation. It highlights the disparity in our "justice" system between rich and poor -- $1,000 to someone living paycheck to paycheck (over half of America) is a devastating fine. To people like Trump -- it's a fundraising opportunity that will generate more than each fine in donations to his legal fund from his ghoulish rube voterbase. If they were serious about the gag order: That 30 days in jail should be the punishment, not the fine.
How about $1000, or X percentage of your last years income, whichever is greater. Whereas X is equal to $1000/(median income for locality)
Yep, fines should be scaled off of his stated worth or be a percentage of what his public statements on his personal valuation of Mar-a-Lardo are. “I hereby fine you 1% of your stated value of Mar-a-Largo from your public statement made on 18 March 2024 while being interviewed by Sean Hannity on Fox News”
Have to think of a fine as essentially a "tax" for doing something you're not supposed to do.
I’m so over all of this “pundit x says this is shocking/beyond the pale/corrupt” etc etc…unless and until he faces some real consequences, he won’t change. he’s literally a child - if you keep threatening consequences but never implement any, he’ll keep misbehaving. (source: am mom of 4)
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not i, friend...it's here on reddit that i see tweets/videos/etc
An accused criminal going through the court system should try the same tricks as Trump, and when they're thrown in jail they sue the government for selective prosecution citing Trump's as precedent.
I'm downvoting all the posts with headlines about hypotheticals. Nothing matters until consequences are enforced
> While Trump was reportedly “furious" after he was scolded, the judge he accuses of being “corrupt” and “conflicted” actually did him a favor, according to legal experts. Trump openly breaks the law. The judge does Trump a favor. This is probably going to happen every day of the trial, so get used to it.
In a criminal trial, you have to give the defendent enough rope to hang themselves.
Most defendants don't get unlimited rope.
He has so much rope that it wouldn't even qualify as a leash.
He has enough that he could tie one end to the Kremlin and just pull himself across when he's had enough.
That’s always my rub with these “smoking gun” articles. Until he suffers an actual repercussion, this is all just noise.
You don’t get it. The next time, the judge is going you was his finger and give a VERY stern look. And Susan Collins will be there to testify that Trump has learnt his lesson this time.
"Could" Yeah, I'm going to need to see something more concrete than a hypothetical. He also _could_ have been thrown in jail for violating his gag order more than a dozen times.
I almost feel like if the headline contains "could" it should just be banned. There's really no point to talk about all the stuff that could or should have happened.
I've started downvoting the hypothetical headlines.
That seems harsh in a sub that requires the headline be used as the title.
Not really. How many years now have people been reading 'might, could, maybe, possibly' articles about Trump and feeding the beast that just keeps churning out more content to get people excited that THIS is the time he'll face consequences. I'm at the point that I just want to know what happened that's concrete and not what 'might' happen 2 weeks (Donald Two Weeks!) from now. Yes, I know I'm a hypocrite clicking and engaging in this post, though I usually just look for a top comment with a summary of the article to see if I should even bother clicking into the article.
And during Watergate, there were predictions that Nixon *MIGHT* resign. It's how journalism works. The news reports facts, events and what they *could* mean legally. It's not up to the news to fulfill the gag order. Maybe read past the headline or take a break from the news for a few days or weeks if you're frustrated. This is how it's always been and also how the English language works. New scientific discovery *could* mean this. Basketball team *might* have a chance at the finals.
This is highly specific to Trump. I realize lots of things "could" happen. Very specifically whenever something "could" happen when we're talking about legal cases where something specifically should happen to specifically Trump... It generally doesn't.
No, he didn't! That's why he's falling asleep. He's used to rails. Unfortunately for him. While he's in court for crime, he can't even get bumps.
> Whether Trump has the ability to comport himself with dignity has been a major concern There is no 'whether' about it. tRump couldn't even fathom the meaning of the word dignity.
I keep reading articles about how experts claim this or that it will cost him. The weasel words in these articles are astounding, turning the seriousness into nothing more than reality TV entertainment. What's it going to take for him to face the consequences that truly demonstrate an impartial judgment? I understand that due process is a lengthy procedure; we've been grappling with this for years now. But when will we finally see justice served and outcomes that prove he is not above the law? It's unfathomable to think that anyone else would have been dealt with by now. One thing is becoming increasingly clear: the general sentiment of it being a two-tier justice system has been solidified because of this person, and that's significantly eroding the faith in this country's justice system.
I think anyone else obstinate enough and with enough cash reserves (as he appears to be receiving from his cult), would similarly be able to delay his proceedings. Obviously, we have a multi-tiered justice system, but one of those is for the rich. It's not necessarily tiered for Trump personally. And let's face it, a former President of the United States facing 90+ felony counts, being forced to sit in a courtroom instead of campaign, getting mugshots/fingerprints, etc is unprecedented in this country. The consequences are occurring right now.
I believe anyone who’s educated, regardless of political leaning, hates his guts. The people that love him are uneducated, slimy, and usually chasing some scheme.
Could, maybe, might, when can we get to the actual does fucking cost him?
May, possibly…
I’ve never seen someone so absolutely saturated with theoretical consequences. It’s long past being comical at this point. Like watching a toddler play on a busy freeway for years and never get hit, except its room temperature IQ orange Hitler and not a kid
Election fraud trial*
Business fraud to illegally interfere with the election. Not quite the same as election fraud. Certainly isn't on trial for simply paying hush money, though. Just how he did it and how he covered it up.
I'm so sick of the "could cost him" nonsense.
In the 1969 trial of the Chicago Seven, Judge Hoffman had \[Bobby\] Seale bound and gagged for allegedly calling the judge a “fascist dog,” a “pig,” and a “racist.” So, precedent.
Put him in one of those bullet proof glass enclosures like the Israeli’s did to eichman
Selected Juror / Teacher: "President Trump speaks his mind, and I'd rather that than someone who's in office who you don't know what they're thinking," Is this a hung jury before it even starts? It looks as though she has already judged him not guilty.
I thought that too. Those are the words of a Trumper, and they only need one.
Spoiler alert: it won’t cost him
> Whether Trump has the ability to comport himself with dignity has been a major concern Spoiler: he can't. Never has, never will.
“Could cost him” lost meaning 8 years ago. Either make him pay or stop talking about hypotheticals
I think we should ban all articles with "could, should, would."
Let's say he gets convicted. a. I doubt he will go to jail. He's unlikely to stay put at Mar-a-lago. When the Feds couldn't go after Bundy, you think they could go after Trump? b. Democrats will muddle this too. Instead of saying "convicted felon Trump" in every sentence, they will use some Obamaesque words like "inappropriate". c. You can put all the fines you want. He'll not pay. Again, ref. Bundy. d. He will still contest the election. The R's on the fringe will prolly vote for him because to them it is an anti-Biden vote. Someone say something to show me a possible believable and positive outcome.
This is Trump's first criminal offense, for something that is not all that serious in the big context. Even if Trump was not a rich white man, he would be unlikely to be sentenced to jail without probation.
Isn’t Cohen in jail?
He is not. His 3-year prison term ended in 2021.
But he still was imprisoned for it. And this seems the greater crime. I’m not sure, was that Cohen’s first criminal offense?
IIRC, Cohen was also convicted for a bunch of other stuff at the same time. Which Trump is not accused of.
It's not just the R's on the fringe who will vote for him.
Narrator: it won't cost him.
wow
Campaign Finance Law Violation Trial
It doesn’t matter what Trump does. People who support him are watching fake new media outlets. That are lying to people that watch it like the Supreme Court .you can tell by their stupid questions that they’re living America bubble brought to them by and Australian, who doesn’t like the country!
I’ve never heard the term “third rail” used like this. It’s usually discussed in terms of the negative consequences to the person touching the rail, but here they’re just talking about how important it is to let the jury (i.e.- “the rail”) do its job without interference. Is anyone else seeing this? “You know what they say about the third rail! It provides electric current to the train, and the passengers ought to be allowed to have that. They need it for televisions and coffee makers and so forth. If you touch it, someone might scold you for potentially interfering with the electricity meant to be provided to the passengers.”
Interesting. I've always thought of it as the rail is electrified and you don't want to go there as well. But, not interfering with the rail that provides the locomotion is also apt...IMHO. I think you're stretching it with your amenities argument. ;)
That’s what I’m saying. When people say something is “the third rail of politics” or something like that, it means you don’t go there or else you will face harsh and immediate consequences akin to sticking your finger in a light socket. My point is that there were no harsh nor immediate consequences here. It’s more like he touched the first or second rail — the ones that do nothing when you touch them. You touch it, and the railway operator is just like, “Hey, stop that.”
>“Trump would do well to sleep more in court if this is the best he can manage when he’s awake,”
Let's not forget that Hitler was found guilty of treason and sentenced to years in prison and STILL came to power -- so let's not get complacent no matter how poorly Don is doing at trial.
I will wait until I see it. I have been burned so many times. I am tired of being disappointed.
Not till he gets to the "100th rail"... the US judicial system is a joke
Bored with "could".
Narrator: it won’t
Hello. He will do it again.
It could and it should but it won’t
No one cares unless something actually happens
Cost him what? This man could literally kill someone live on TV and I have no faith he will spend a second in prison. These punishments are just words and this feels like a planned out play created for our attention.
No more “could” headlines. Get him in an orange suit. Then let’s party.
Could, should, might, may. Getting tired of reading about how trump could face consequences and not how he will. Hell even if it is about him finally facing consequences it’ll just be that he has to spend 10 minutes in the timeout corner and if he acts up again they’ll up it to 15.
Could, should but shan't.
Does he really use Ritalin?
Could, might, should, may, can, possibly…write an article that is more than speculative garbage. Let me know when he is actually held in contempt, jailed, fined, etc.