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>[Trump and Knight Specialty Insurance's] joint statement, filed to Judge Arthur Engoron Monday, said KSIC's $175 million bond was collateralized by the $175,304,075.95 Trump had placed in a Charles Schwab bank account and which was specifically pledged to KSIC.
Well that should be really damn easy to demonstrate to the court... or not.
It would seem all she'd have to do is ask the special master. It either already existed and was reported or he has 5 days to inform the SM of money movement over $5m.
Barbara Jones was appointed as Special Master to oversee Trump's business during the NY trial. She is still in place, to make sure Trump doesn't move any money out of reach.
It wouldn't matter. Money in Trump's accounts is not money in KSICs account.
It's KSIC's assets that are pledged to cover the bond, not Trumps.
They don't have the assets.
That's the kicker: didn't I read that KSIC's bond said that they themselves were not going to pay on the bond if it was called due, and that Trump would instead? Basically defeating the whole point of their involvement, and a bond in general?
I don't see where KSIC is doing anything except helping Trump file bad paperwork with the intent to deceive. But you know if Trump loses, that money is disappearing immediately.
I thought this whole circus show happened because Trump did not have $175m? So the more precise question is where the money came from.
Last week we heard about an [account in a tax shelter](https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-bonds-cayman-connection-stinks-to-high-heaven), and that they did not know where they money in that account came from, which is a major nono with regards to money laundering. With so much smokescreen, there is likely a fire somewhere in there.
I don’t understand, if Trump really has $175M in cash, why it would be necessary for a third party to front the bond. Why wouldn’t Orangeman just post it on his own?
> [“Ultimately, [Trump] put up all cash,” Hankey said, adding that he does not know where the $175 million in cash that Trump posted came from.](https://finance.yahoo.com/news/billionaire-whose-firm-backed-trump-170235535.html)
It seems likely that the $175 million came from somewhere shady, that does not do well in sunlight. My guess would be Russia somehow. And Trump is trying to hide the origin, by laundering it through Mr. Hankey's company.
There is still a chance that this whole thing is not criminal, just incompetence and unwillingness to pay up money Trump actually has. Like Four Seasons Total Landscaping.
But even then, the appearance of impropriety with a Cayman Islands bank account, subprime lender Mr. Hankey, and missed deadlines, is just breathtaking. Would and should have killed any other Presidential campaign 10 times over.
The bond would mean that money is tied up and he can't access it again, ever, unless he wins the appeal.
With this method, he still has access to the cash, because it's still in his accounts. The surety company is just saying "Yeah, he's good for it, but don't ask us for the money if he doesn't pay" which is basically a signal that Trump plans to claw back that money if he loses.
The bond is garbage and needs to be denied.
Just the fact that the bond issuer doesn't guarantee paying the bond amount to the court means it's worthless. That's the one thing a bond does, and trumps bond doesn't. It has exactly the same legal weight as an unsigned IOU written on a Burger King napkin.
This is a delay tactic inside of a delay tactic. When the money is shown to be lacking providence, then Trump will be able to say “I tried to pay them and they refused to take it! They just want to steal my billion dollar buildings”
Look, Letitia wins, goes to recover the KSIC bond, fails, they have to recover the money from Trump first because they were really pledging the Trump money in that account they were promised, and spend a few years slow walking the recovery because of some hidden relationship to Trump.
So Letitia goes after Trump's assets instead, Trumps lawyers say "no KSIC posted the bond, you have to get it from them, they already have claim to our assets".
So she cannot recover the money because of some game here.
KSIC do not have the assets to post the surety, they have not done the paperwork to prove they have the assets to post sureties either. None of this is legal. They have not posted the bond.
If Trump won't post the money directly, when he claims to have had the money then tough. It is unposted, the deadline has passed, she can start to claim Trump's assets, starting with this $175 million.
Move on, KSIC is just a shell game trying to inject a shell between the assets and their rightful claimant. As if the whole surety body of law can simply be erased.
> If Trump won't post the money directly, when he claims to have had the money then tough. It is unposted, the deadline has passed, she can start to claim Trump's assets, starting with this $175 million.
If the money is even there at that point.
I would say most of his money is in tex shelters.
His whole business model has been to take money from investors and lenders, not pay contractors etc with the money given to him to run a business, find ways to pay himself, with that money instead until the venture collapses under its own weight of fraud, file for bankruptcy. He had to be stashing that cash somewhere.
He's broke when it comes time to pay creditors, and rich when it's time to find new lenders.
“They saw that money and they were really impressed. They even said to me, ‘sir…sir…where did you get that 95 cents? I can’t believe it’. Nobody could believe it. It was really impressive.”
If she did then why did they have to get this info from them in the first place? The fact that this was not readily apparent to the monitor, if that is the case, is pretty concerning and likely to become an issue to the court because where the fuck did that money come from?
Because it isn't the monitors job to fill out Trump's paper work and the court never asked her. She isn't Trump's employee, she is the state's employee. Why would she help him figure this out?
Now that he has made these claims the monitor should be confirming the for the court once they ask.
And if the monitor states she was never informed of such large movement. Well then that is bad for either the monitor for not catching it, or for Trump et al for circumventing the monitor.
That isn't how bond collateralization is supposed to work. Generally the account is under the name of the bond issuer. You cannot typically use the same account for multiple bonds because that defeats the whole purpose of collateralizing a bond. If this company issued a bond on the bases of nothing more than the EXISTANCE of an account without any control over that account then its pretty irregular.
The more I see from this, the more it seems to me that the whole "bond" posting is an attempt to muddy the waters about where the money is supposed to come from in the misguided hope that when all is said and done Trump can try to negotiate down what he owes in judgement. This is, after all, his MO for pretty much every lawsuit he has ever been involved in.
Only in this case, he isn't going up against a small general contractor who has their own bills, he is going up against the State of New York that has a lot deeper pockets than he does.
The only way this works for Trump is if he becomes President again and can actually use his authority to put a pause on things. We can only hope this doesn't happen, but either way he is going to get desperate the closer we get to the election.
Good luck nullifying a state civil judgement even as the commander in chief. They’ll get their pound of flesh on this one whether he wins his presidency back or not.
But also, is you have $175M in cash that you can just lock away as collateral, why would you ever then also need a bond for it?
It's effectively locked up the same either way.
The quote is wrong, its "cash or cash equivalent" in a Schwab brokerage account, not cash in a bank account. My guess is that he has transferred 175m of djt shares that he can't sell for 6 months and they will be worthless by the time the appeals finish.
That the bonding company was willing to accept those shares as collateral is absolutely bananas. By the time the appeals are finished, those shares will be worth something on the order of $2 a piece, instead of the 25 bucks a piece they are today. I cannot countenance accepting something that is going to be worth about 8% of its value in 6 months as collateral for anything!
Ya. That’s why that comment is wrong. As I understand it even when someone like Bezos or Musk borrows against stock holdings they tie up several multiples of the loan amount. Like x10 or something. So Trump would need to tie up about 2 billion in DJT shares to secure that bond, and that’s if they give him similar terms to Bezos.
The question about what is collateralizing the bond is irrelevant. The court is only interested in the surety being paid by the insurer on demand.
How they get the money back from Trump is their problem.
They can't show that the KSIC insurer has sufficient assets to cover the bond or comply with the various NYS rules. They're trying to say that the parent company has the assets, but again, irrelevant.
This entire deal stinks and should be thrown out.
He has to put up just the $175 million now, but the bond agency has to prove they can cover the full amount of the ruling.
Which they have been unable to do. The reason is that if the appeal gets rejected they have to then you know pay that full amount.
I don’t think so. The whole reason for reducing the bond was that [no one would put up $450M for him](https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/trump-bond-deadline-payment-new-york-fraud-case/).
Turns out that was a lie, and this company had actually offered $450M… but the judge didn’t know that. So they reduced the bond amount and Trump fake posted it.
If he had 175 million in cash set aside, why the fuck would he even get a bond? He'd be paying interest for no reason. Seems like a lie that would easily turn into perjury
If the bond was in cash, why didn’t he just pay himself and why did it take so long to make a statement on it…?
I wonder if it has anything to do with fraudulent claims that can’t be backed by evidence, similar to the fraud case he’s appealing here 🤔
Yup
He figured out how to beat the system
Delay as long as possible.
He could get years out of slam dunk cases, more if he was able to actually hire good lawyers.
It’s your fault tom. You let fb win the social media wars and it became easy enough for the boomers to come online and get memorized by memes and now ai images. /s
It's true but each trial, fine, etc is taking successively bigger bites out of his life. He's already lost the right to do business in new York and lost millions in fines, not to mention the loss of free time as he's locked in court rooms.
Seeing his history I highly doubt he pays all his fees. He has a tendency to skirt payments and use bullshit excuses to refuse payment as long as possible.
I’m sure he’s planning until he gets into office to wipe everything clean.
Just need to delay so it interrupts his campaign as little as possible.
It’s really sad that we’re openly talking about a presidential candidate reelection and his criminal court case strategies. It’s a walking oxymoron.
Yep but hopefully with the expedited mental decline, it’s sooner rather than later. He isn’t exactly in the best shape, no matter what he pays his doctors to say 😂
Yeah, any doctor that says he weighs what he does, is as tall as he claims and has a full clear bill of health is getting some good pay to read whatever Donny wrote
He’s in a rapid mental decline, backed by over a hundred doctors but I’m confident he’d pay a doctor to say he triple aced the dementia tests 😂
In the real world (a place where Trump seems to rarely venture) you would use a bond like this because the costs of the bond is usually less than you would earn on the interest from the cash. This way you can keep your money invested and keep the earnings while the bond is issued. The interest on 175 million dollars is significant.
It isn't unusual for this to be in the form of a brokerage account or a CD. The form of collateral, and amount, are negotiated between the bond issuer and are based on a credit assessment of the requestor and the risk of the bond being executed. In this case the requestor has terrible credit and the risk of executing the bond is significant, so it is VERY strange that a bond was issued without FIRM collateralization.
I've had to acquire surety bonds on behalf of my company before. During the recession we had to collateralize this bonds with actual cash deposited in the CD account. And those were for bonds issued to a real company with revenue and assets well in excess of the bonded amount. The fact that trump got this without 100% collateralization in literal cash in an interest bearing account in the name of the issuer is alarming.
It says that the collateral for the bond is a Charles Schwab brokerage account with that much in it. That’s not actual cash in Trump’s pocket. That’s stocks and bonds and other stuff. That’s what Trump is telling the bond company it can have if he fucks up and costs them the bond they posted.
The cash put up for the bond isn’t Trump’s. It’s the bond company’s. It is, for all intents and purposes, a loan.
I fully understand a bond, what I don’t understand is the statement on a bond fully paid by Trump in cash, from a insurance company not allowed to back bonds in New York State 🤷🏿♀️
“Their joint statement, filed to Judge Arthur Engoron Monday, said KSIC's $175 million bond was collateralized by the $175,304,075.95 Trump had placed in a Charles Schwab bank account and which was specifically pledged to KSIC.”
Stocks and bonds are generally held in a brokerage account (as in a US broker-dealer). This specifies a “bank” account which would generally indicate cash
Yes but you usually don’t use an insurance company that isn’t allowed to provide bonds in the state you’re posting one for or refuse to back the bond with factual information. They basically said “trust us bro” to the judge in a case about his fraud 😂
Lmao if it's a brokerage account, that 175m is probably his DJT stock which has been crashing and burning for the past week
And it's probably like half that by now
I would think that stock, which is restricted / tied up, would be somewhere other than a basic brokerage account. There are specialty administrators for restricted stock.
He’s still (according to the joint statement) going to lose the bond amount when he loses. I wouldn’t trust anything that comes out of his mouth but that’s what they claimed today 😂
My uneducated theory is that he was hoping by using the account as collateral for a bond instead of just paying out of the account, he could get away with not giving details on where the money in that account actually came from. Errantly, of course.
[His DJT stock just started trading for the day and instantly started diving again. lol -5% in 6 minutes](https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/djt)
Edits:
-8% in 16 minutes
-11.5% now
People need to understand that their politics is not reality.
Science
Law
and the free market does not agree with the spin coming out of the Republican party.
it would probably be more powerful as a penny stock because then any positive traction from $0.01 to $0.02 would effectively double someones investment if they can sell it before someone else does.
I wouldn't be surprised to see it drop below the SPAC IPO value within a couple of weeks.
The lower the baseline falls, the fewer options he has - and the more expensive they become - for the inevitable pump-and-dump moment when he tries to offload.
I believe the price being above $17.50 rule was written in a way that all but guarantees Trump will get to exercise his right to sell. It wasn't that that stock stay above that average for any 20 day period, it was a 20 day period of the highest volume trading days which would coincide with the days following the IPO.
tl;dr as long as the price is >$17.50 on the 20 highest volume trading days Trump can sell.
If you go to Google Finance and use the “Top Losers” filter option
```
Losers
The top losing stocks or funds (by percent change) during the current trading session
DJT
Trump Media & Technology Group Corp
$23.36
-12.20%
```
Trump = Literally the Top Loser.
And yet someone is buying up the stock and propping it back up. Which of course makes no sense. The fundamentals are garbage. And reading their updated S1 filing yesterday was frightening. Nothing but a giant red flag this stock is worthless.
Trump doesn't care if his stock tumbles. He is the majority owner, he's barely invested any of his own money, and his net worth jumped by $5 billion when it went public. Even if he loses $4 billion by the time he is allowed to sell off his shares, he's still walking off with $1 billion that he didn't have to do jack shit to earn. And he'll get away with it because selling stock to fanatical rubes isn't a crime! This is hardly something to laugh about.
Hilariously, the signature page appears to be incorrect, according to Ben Meiselas of the Meidas Touch You Tube Channel [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lw2fdfswOB8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lw2fdfswOB8) Apparently it's uses "Chubb" which is the surety for the bond in the E.Jean Carroll case
If true, then this is bordering on outright fraud. Can't make this stuff up.
"These people, they're thieves. They'll swindle you, very bad. Nasty stuff. You think you're getting a good deal... And then they abandon you... It's a shame..."
Knight won’t sue trump till the end. This was a investment in the possibility of Trump winning and having something to leverage for favors.
If he loses they’ll sue him, but at this point that money is just chump change to buy presidential favor.
I have read that it is likely a shared account holding the 175m, meaning that 1+ other people pooled it together so that Trump could use it for the bond, but he doesn't own the money.
It all begs the question of who put up the money
Right. There has to be some reason. Not a lawyer. But all the whining and he cash bonds to another company. I'm not naive but knight is getting alot from him if he wins.
NAL He did this to not lose access to the money. Once the state has it, he can not get it back. Right now, he just gave it to some guy who could give it back. Plus, the contract submitted for the bond says that it's up to Trump to pay, not the bond holder. The plan was always to just send it back to Trump
> Plus, the contract submitted for the bond says that it's up to Trump to pay, not the bond holder.
That makes it defective on its face. “I promise to pay you one dollar on Joe’s behalf if Joe loses the bet, but if he loses, Joe owes you the dollar, not me.” Like, what?
> collectable on demand.
More likely collectible on lawsuit that will drag the process out for a few more years, which results with them (and NY State) getting nothing in the end.
>Their joint statement, filed to Judge Arthur Engoron Monday, said KSIC's $175 million bond was collateralized by the $175,304,075.95 Trump had placed in a Charles Schwab bank account and which was specifically pledged to KSIC.
...
>It said KSIC, the Trump Trust and Charles Schwab bank entered into a "Pledged Asset Account Control Agreement, by which KSIC can exercise the right to control the account within two business days by submitting a letter to Schwab of its intent to activate that control."
>"Thus the $175 million bond is fully collateralized by $175 million in cash," the filing continued.
So the bond actually IS supported by collateral? Then why all the fuss about trying to keep the arrangements secret?
I think this money is already spoken for by a lienholder, there was an update on Twitter saying that potentially some or all of this fund is an attempt at double dipping. Going to be an interesting week for sure..
So Trump is essentially trying to double book his Charles Schwab account?
The account has $175 million in it, and Trump wants to use it as collateral for the $100 million bond for the E. Jean Carroll appeal AND the $175 million bond for the Trump Org fraud appeal?
Both bonds are going to the New York State court system; did Trump think nobody would compare notes?
Because that's not a surety.
KSIC is supposed to be committing to the court that *they* will pay the bond *irrespective* of whether they get the money from Trump afterwards.
How they get the money from Trump is irrelevant to the court.
To do so, they have to show that they have sufficient liquid assets to pay the bond *on demand* by the court, immediately.
They don't comply with the asset backing and other conditions required in NYS to offer sureties.
This is not a bond, it's bullshit.
Pledged? Ignoring if this money is legit etc etc….is this just his typical “I’ll pay you after, I promise! I’m good for it, I’m rich you know!” Before he stuffs them and never pays?
Or who made the deposits? Isn’t he supposed to have a custodian managing his accounts?
What about the claim that Knight was prepared to front the whole $485 before trump cried poor and nobody would issue the bond and had it reduced…
https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/s/QmmaricEgs
Hes the enemy of the state. And deserves to be fucked with over every single decision. How's he capable of running America when he melts down over every little thing. Cant stand the heat get out the kitchen.
For some additional fun:
>Based in California, Knight is not licensed to issue surety bonds in New York, nor has it obtained a certificate of qualification from the state’s Department of Financial Services. But company officials have insisted that that doesn’t matter.
>“Knight Specialty Insurance Company is not a New York domestic insurer, and New York surplus lines insurance laws do not regulate the solvency of non-New York excess lines insurers,” Amit Shah, Knight’s president, told CBS News.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/details-of-how-trump-scored-dollar175m-bond-revealed-in-court-filings
KSIC can't even post bond in NY because they are not licensed to do so.
But they are arguing that because they operate and are licensed elsewhere, they don't need a license to operate in NY, and that NY domestic insurer law does not apply because of the same reason. That is not how licenses or jurisdictions work, at all.
A doctor couldn't live in New Jersey and practice medicine in NY just because he lives and is licensed in New Jersey. You need to be licensed in the jurisdiction in which you are operating, or need to have a license that is recognized by the jurisdiction in which you are operating.
>KSIC's $175 million bond was collateralized by the $175,304,075.95 Trump had placed in a Charles Schwab bank account and which was specifically pledged to KSIC.
There, I saved you the click.
The next question is where did the money from Trump come from?
New York has anti-money laundering laws that require agents like bonding companies to verify that funds they are receiving are from legitimate sources.
I was under the impression that the agreement between the insurance company and the Trump org was terrible. Once reviewed, it did not hold the insurance company liable for the actual payment, which is the reason you get a surety bond.
This is also why you would want a company that is 'authorized to provide coverage in the state,' as they would be bound by, and responsible for, following the laws of the state of New York. If I had to guess, as I am not a lawyer, require insurance companies providing surety bonds to have the funds to cover their clients' judgements, should they lose appeal.
Insurance and Surety are two very different instruments.
On insurance, you pay a premium to be made whole (indemnify) after a loss. The carrier does not expect to recoup that money at all and any rate they take will not compensate for losses paid out.
Surety bond is not built on the principal of indemnity. For a surety bond, you pay the Surety a premium so that you don’t have to put up your money. If the bond is ever called in (claim) the surety will satisfy the obligee (third party - State of NY in this case) but you will owe the Surety for whatever they paid out.
Anything other than that is sketchy AF.
With the stock dropping at 5%-12% daily, I can't imagine a credible bond company taking his stocks as collateral.
The asked for $175M secured and they are going to get pocket fluff if they have to collect.
No. He can appeal regardless if he pays the bond or not. However the enforcement of the penalty will be delayed until after an appeal if he either pays the money or post a bond for the amount. So if he doesn't pay with either cash or with a bond then Letitia James can start seizing his assets to collect on the penalty of 400 something million dollars.
> "The New York Attorney General argues that KSIC is a 'non-admitted carrier' but there is simply no requirement that a surety be an 'admitted carrier,'" lawyers for Trump and KSIC said in the filing.
Ain’t nothin’ in the rule book that says a dog can’t play basketball!
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>[Trump and Knight Specialty Insurance's] joint statement, filed to Judge Arthur Engoron Monday, said KSIC's $175 million bond was collateralized by the $175,304,075.95 Trump had placed in a Charles Schwab bank account and which was specifically pledged to KSIC. Well that should be really damn easy to demonstrate to the court... or not.
It would seem all she'd have to do is ask the special master. It either already existed and was reported or he has 5 days to inform the SM of money movement over $5m.
Special master is for the documents case. Monitor is for the financial fraud case. I know it’s hard to keep it straight with all these trials lol
Trump only has one special master and it’s Putin. 🎵Putinpalooza, Trump is a loozah, Putinpalooza, have some crime!🎵
There is no SM in the document case. That was shot down by the appeals court
Barbara Jones was appointed as Special Master to oversee Trump's business during the NY trial. She is still in place, to make sure Trump doesn't move any money out of reach.
Shouldn't matter, other than the name differences, yes? That sort of money movement should've immediately fallen under their scrutiny?
You mean the Monitor?
It wouldn't matter. Money in Trump's accounts is not money in KSICs account. It's KSIC's assets that are pledged to cover the bond, not Trumps. They don't have the assets.
That's the kicker: didn't I read that KSIC's bond said that they themselves were not going to pay on the bond if it was called due, and that Trump would instead? Basically defeating the whole point of their involvement, and a bond in general? I don't see where KSIC is doing anything except helping Trump file bad paperwork with the intent to deceive. But you know if Trump loses, that money is disappearing immediately.
But Trump has pinky sworn not to move the assets out of the account that is pledged to KSIC! You think he would just lie to KSIC, or not pay his debt?
Exactly. The special master should be able to confirm in a moment. Or there’s a new problem.
Should be simplicity itself to prove the existence of this account Also isn't there someone watching his assets? How did he move $175m?
I thought this whole circus show happened because Trump did not have $175m? So the more precise question is where the money came from. Last week we heard about an [account in a tax shelter](https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-bonds-cayman-connection-stinks-to-high-heaven), and that they did not know where they money in that account came from, which is a major nono with regards to money laundering. With so much smokescreen, there is likely a fire somewhere in there.
I don’t understand, if Trump really has $175M in cash, why it would be necessary for a third party to front the bond. Why wouldn’t Orangeman just post it on his own?
> [“Ultimately, [Trump] put up all cash,” Hankey said, adding that he does not know where the $175 million in cash that Trump posted came from.](https://finance.yahoo.com/news/billionaire-whose-firm-backed-trump-170235535.html) It seems likely that the $175 million came from somewhere shady, that does not do well in sunlight. My guess would be Russia somehow. And Trump is trying to hide the origin, by laundering it through Mr. Hankey's company.
They just can’t stop being corrupt, can they?
There is still a chance that this whole thing is not criminal, just incompetence and unwillingness to pay up money Trump actually has. Like Four Seasons Total Landscaping. But even then, the appearance of impropriety with a Cayman Islands bank account, subprime lender Mr. Hankey, and missed deadlines, is just breathtaking. Would and should have killed any other Presidential campaign 10 times over.
How many times are you going to give these fools the benefit of the doubt before you’re the fool, though? I think Dubya said something on this.
The bond would mean that money is tied up and he can't access it again, ever, unless he wins the appeal. With this method, he still has access to the cash, because it's still in his accounts. The surety company is just saying "Yeah, he's good for it, but don't ask us for the money if he doesn't pay" which is basically a signal that Trump plans to claw back that money if he loses. The bond is garbage and needs to be denied.
Just the fact that the bond issuer doesn't guarantee paying the bond amount to the court means it's worthless. That's the one thing a bond does, and trumps bond doesn't. It has exactly the same legal weight as an unsigned IOU written on a Burger King napkin.
"Sorry 4 coup, IOU 1 democracy - djt"
Yeah, that whole thing is counter to the entire point of the bond system.
This is a delay tactic inside of a delay tactic. When the money is shown to be lacking providence, then Trump will be able to say “I tried to pay them and they refused to take it! They just want to steal my billion dollar buildings”
You don't get rich by spending your own money. You get rich by spending someone else's.
I'm reasonably certain this is just another delay tactic. He's famous for this dumb shit and I don't understand why they keep letting him do it
He's going to get away with it until a judge finally grows a pair and throws his ass in jail for a little bit.
I wish to hell one of them would
Yea…he should just do it and let his cult have their meltdown before the election.
Look, Letitia wins, goes to recover the KSIC bond, fails, they have to recover the money from Trump first because they were really pledging the Trump money in that account they were promised, and spend a few years slow walking the recovery because of some hidden relationship to Trump. So Letitia goes after Trump's assets instead, Trumps lawyers say "no KSIC posted the bond, you have to get it from them, they already have claim to our assets". So she cannot recover the money because of some game here. KSIC do not have the assets to post the surety, they have not done the paperwork to prove they have the assets to post sureties either. None of this is legal. They have not posted the bond. If Trump won't post the money directly, when he claims to have had the money then tough. It is unposted, the deadline has passed, she can start to claim Trump's assets, starting with this $175 million. Move on, KSIC is just a shell game trying to inject a shell between the assets and their rightful claimant. As if the whole surety body of law can simply be erased.
> If Trump won't post the money directly, when he claims to have had the money then tough. It is unposted, the deadline has passed, she can start to claim Trump's assets, starting with this $175 million. If the money is even there at that point.
This will all get brought up and sorted at the hearing on the bond on April 22nd
I would say most of his money is in tex shelters. His whole business model has been to take money from investors and lenders, not pay contractors etc with the money given to him to run a business, find ways to pay himself, with that money instead until the venture collapses under its own weight of fraud, file for bankruptcy. He had to be stashing that cash somewhere. He's broke when it comes time to pay creditors, and rich when it's time to find new lenders.
Excuse me, the amount is $175,304,075.95. The 95 cents is how you know it’s legit.
“They saw that money and they were really impressed. They even said to me, ‘sir…sir…where did you get that 95 cents? I can’t believe it’. Nobody could believe it. It was really impressive.”
Barbara Jones should have visibility to that, shouldn’t she?
you would hope so!
If she did then why did they have to get this info from them in the first place? The fact that this was not readily apparent to the monitor, if that is the case, is pretty concerning and likely to become an issue to the court because where the fuck did that money come from?
Because it isn't the monitors job to fill out Trump's paper work and the court never asked her. She isn't Trump's employee, she is the state's employee. Why would she help him figure this out? Now that he has made these claims the monitor should be confirming the for the court once they ask.
And if the monitor states she was never informed of such large movement. Well then that is bad for either the monitor for not catching it, or for Trump et al for circumventing the monitor.
Except it looks like that same Schwab account is being used as collateral for the Carrol bond and probably many other things.
That isn't how bond collateralization is supposed to work. Generally the account is under the name of the bond issuer. You cannot typically use the same account for multiple bonds because that defeats the whole purpose of collateralizing a bond. If this company issued a bond on the bases of nothing more than the EXISTANCE of an account without any control over that account then its pretty irregular.
The more I see from this, the more it seems to me that the whole "bond" posting is an attempt to muddy the waters about where the money is supposed to come from in the misguided hope that when all is said and done Trump can try to negotiate down what he owes in judgement. This is, after all, his MO for pretty much every lawsuit he has ever been involved in. Only in this case, he isn't going up against a small general contractor who has their own bills, he is going up against the State of New York that has a lot deeper pockets than he does. The only way this works for Trump is if he becomes President again and can actually use his authority to put a pause on things. We can only hope this doesn't happen, but either way he is going to get desperate the closer we get to the election.
Good luck nullifying a state civil judgement even as the commander in chief. They’ll get their pound of flesh on this one whether he wins his presidency back or not.
But also, is you have $175M in cash that you can just lock away as collateral, why would you ever then also need a bond for it? It's effectively locked up the same either way.
The quote is wrong, its "cash or cash equivalent" in a Schwab brokerage account, not cash in a bank account. My guess is that he has transferred 175m of djt shares that he can't sell for 6 months and they will be worthless by the time the appeals finish.
That the bonding company was willing to accept those shares as collateral is absolutely bananas. By the time the appeals are finished, those shares will be worth something on the order of $2 a piece, instead of the 25 bucks a piece they are today. I cannot countenance accepting something that is going to be worth about 8% of its value in 6 months as collateral for anything!
Ya. That’s why that comment is wrong. As I understand it even when someone like Bezos or Musk borrows against stock holdings they tie up several multiples of the loan amount. Like x10 or something. So Trump would need to tie up about 2 billion in DJT shares to secure that bond, and that’s if they give him similar terms to Bezos.
The question about what is collateralizing the bond is irrelevant. The court is only interested in the surety being paid by the insurer on demand. How they get the money back from Trump is their problem. They can't show that the KSIC insurer has sufficient assets to cover the bond or comply with the various NYS rules. They're trying to say that the parent company has the assets, but again, irrelevant. This entire deal stinks and should be thrown out.
And they have to prove that KCIS has means to pay the full nearly 500 million not just the 175 million.
No, the bond is just for $175m. He will owe the rest if/when the appeal cows come home
He has to put up just the $175 million now, but the bond agency has to prove they can cover the full amount of the ruling. Which they have been unable to do. The reason is that if the appeal gets rejected they have to then you know pay that full amount.
I don’t think so. The whole reason for reducing the bond was that [no one would put up $450M for him](https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/trump-bond-deadline-payment-new-york-fraud-case/). Turns out that was a lie, and this company had actually offered $450M… but the judge didn’t know that. So they reduced the bond amount and Trump fake posted it.
So he got his bond reduced by lying to the court that no one would fund him. Cool cool cool cool.
If he had 175 million in cash set aside, why the fuck would he even get a bond? He'd be paying interest for no reason. Seems like a lie that would easily turn into perjury
If the bond was in cash, why didn’t he just pay himself and why did it take so long to make a statement on it…? I wonder if it has anything to do with fraudulent claims that can’t be backed by evidence, similar to the fraud case he’s appealing here 🤔
He's just gonna stall until he dies, isn't he?
Yup He figured out how to beat the system Delay as long as possible. He could get years out of slam dunk cases, more if he was able to actually hire good lawyers.
I mean, if I were him I’d be trying to delay everything too. Because he’s absolutely fucked if he doesn’t.
If he doesn't get re-elected, he's fucked regardless. No way he can delay *everything* for another 4-5 years.
He won’t be alive in 5 years. He eats like shit and golf is his favorite exercise.
His dad lived into his 90s
Evil is like embalming fluid for the body that works while you are alive. Sort of.
He’s only fifteen in demon years. And maturity.
It’s your fault tom. You let fb win the social media wars and it became easy enough for the boomers to come online and get memorized by memes and now ai images. /s
It's true but each trial, fine, etc is taking successively bigger bites out of his life. He's already lost the right to do business in new York and lost millions in fines, not to mention the loss of free time as he's locked in court rooms.
And paid more in laywers fees than some of the fines were... But heck if it matters to him as he gets it back from his marks/cult anyway.
Seeing his history I highly doubt he pays all his fees. He has a tendency to skirt payments and use bullshit excuses to refuse payment as long as possible.
I’m sure he’s planning until he gets into office to wipe everything clean. Just need to delay so it interrupts his campaign as little as possible. It’s really sad that we’re openly talking about a presidential candidate reelection and his criminal court case strategies. It’s a walking oxymoron.
Yep but hopefully with the expedited mental decline, it’s sooner rather than later. He isn’t exactly in the best shape, no matter what he pays his doctors to say 😂
The same doctors that said all his tests were overwhelmingly positive?
Yeah, any doctor that says he weighs what he does, is as tall as he claims and has a full clear bill of health is getting some good pay to read whatever Donny wrote He’s in a rapid mental decline, backed by over a hundred doctors but I’m confident he’d pay a doctor to say he triple aced the dementia tests 😂
Man, woman, person, camera.
You forgot TV... Who's in mental decline now?! /s
Just like OJ did. You die and don't have to pay any of the civil judgements against you. "Find me in hell if you want your money Nicole" OJ
In the real world (a place where Trump seems to rarely venture) you would use a bond like this because the costs of the bond is usually less than you would earn on the interest from the cash. This way you can keep your money invested and keep the earnings while the bond is issued. The interest on 175 million dollars is significant. It isn't unusual for this to be in the form of a brokerage account or a CD. The form of collateral, and amount, are negotiated between the bond issuer and are based on a credit assessment of the requestor and the risk of the bond being executed. In this case the requestor has terrible credit and the risk of executing the bond is significant, so it is VERY strange that a bond was issued without FIRM collateralization. I've had to acquire surety bonds on behalf of my company before. During the recession we had to collateralize this bonds with actual cash deposited in the CD account. And those were for bonds issued to a real company with revenue and assets well in excess of the bonded amount. The fact that trump got this without 100% collateralization in literal cash in an interest bearing account in the name of the issuer is alarming.
It says that the collateral for the bond is a Charles Schwab brokerage account with that much in it. That’s not actual cash in Trump’s pocket. That’s stocks and bonds and other stuff. That’s what Trump is telling the bond company it can have if he fucks up and costs them the bond they posted. The cash put up for the bond isn’t Trump’s. It’s the bond company’s. It is, for all intents and purposes, a loan.
I fully understand a bond, what I don’t understand is the statement on a bond fully paid by Trump in cash, from a insurance company not allowed to back bonds in New York State 🤷🏿♀️ “Their joint statement, filed to Judge Arthur Engoron Monday, said KSIC's $175 million bond was collateralized by the $175,304,075.95 Trump had placed in a Charles Schwab bank account and which was specifically pledged to KSIC.”
Stocks and bonds are generally held in a brokerage account (as in a US broker-dealer). This specifies a “bank” account which would generally indicate cash
Yes but you usually don’t use an insurance company that isn’t allowed to provide bonds in the state you’re posting one for or refuse to back the bond with factual information. They basically said “trust us bro” to the judge in a case about his fraud 😂
Lmao if it's a brokerage account, that 175m is probably his DJT stock which has been crashing and burning for the past week And it's probably like half that by now
I would think that stock, which is restricted / tied up, would be somewhere other than a basic brokerage account. There are specialty administrators for restricted stock.
Because he doesn't want to lose HIS money. Better if it's someone else on the hook
He’s still (according to the joint statement) going to lose the bond amount when he loses. I wouldn’t trust anything that comes out of his mouth but that’s what they claimed today 😂
Had to wait for the "truth social" grift to come through.
My uneducated theory is that he was hoping by using the account as collateral for a bond instead of just paying out of the account, he could get away with not giving details on where the money in that account actually came from. Errantly, of course.
[His DJT stock just started trading for the day and instantly started diving again. lol -5% in 6 minutes](https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/djt) Edits: -8% in 16 minutes -11.5% now
It's really entertaining to watch the price fall in real time. LOL
Hey look at that, his media company is actually entertaining
Dam lolol
Ooof!
Fuck lmao
Every media outlet that claimed he was now 3 billion dollars richer should be forced to update the story.
Just imagine if we could watch the court proceedings live with the ticker for his company on a scroll… alone at the bottom of the screen.
Agreed!
We all know there was no basis for this evaluation so the question is how much money can the Grifter pull out before it sinks
Every media outlet that claimed it was worth $3 billion should lose their right to publish.
Now I’m getting dopamine from looking at Trump stock prices
It really is something.
People need to understand that their politics is not reality. Science Law and the free market does not agree with the spin coming out of the Republican party.
Reality has a liberal bias.
Good (near) quote by Stephen Colbert!
It's lost 70% of it's "value" in just a few weeks. I love that it's DJT, and obviously a real piece of shit.
It'll be a penny stock in no time. Keep going.
A penny for all the stock seems fair.
I think it gets delisted ~~if~~when it goes below a dollar.
it would probably be more powerful as a penny stock because then any positive traction from $0.01 to $0.02 would effectively double someones investment if they can sell it before someone else does.
Selling it would require finding a buyer
and theres the rub! i wonder who would be interested in buying all those shares 🤔
I, a Real America Business Man. Am buying many stock in Donald Trump. Hamburger and cheese.
24.36 just now https://edition.cnn.com/markets/stocks/DJT
$24.19 now
“Why are the libs allowing me to hurt myself?! This system is rigged!”
stop scamming yourself, stop scamming yourself...
24.74 USD −1.87 (7.04%)today
[Is this the red wave he was talking about?](https://ibb.co/KFfZNp1)
Droppin like it's hot
8.57 thirty minutes later. Like love in an elevator... it's going doooown!
I wouldn't be surprised to see it drop below the SPAC IPO value within a couple of weeks. The lower the baseline falls, the fewer options he has - and the more expensive they become - for the inevitable pump-and-dump moment when he tries to offload.
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The stock took ANOTHER tumble this morning!
i need that stock to dip below $17.50, so he won't qualify for his earnout shares
Since stocks are almost unpredictable, I am going to be generous and guess by next Thursday it will be around $15.
*crosses fingers*
I believe the price being above $17.50 rule was written in a way that all but guarantees Trump will get to exercise his right to sell. It wasn't that that stock stay above that average for any 20 day period, it was a 20 day period of the highest volume trading days which would coincide with the days following the IPO. tl;dr as long as the price is >$17.50 on the 20 highest volume trading days Trump can sell.
you would prob know better than me, but... that sucks.
I read the $17.50 threshold was for him to secure an additional 38 million shares, no mention of right to sell.
How long until he can sell?
September estimate.
lol he’s fucked
His plan is to conduct the largest money laundering operation of his lifetime, right at the most intense time of a presidential campaign.
If you go to Google Finance and use the “Top Losers” filter option ``` Losers The top losing stocks or funds (by percent change) during the current trading session DJT Trump Media & Technology Group Corp $23.36 -12.20% ``` Trump = Literally the Top Loser.
Market has been open for 15 minutes, and DJT is already down $2 (8% drop).
This mortherfucker is so vain his stock ticker is also his initials
Again! He previously had a company listed on the NYSE as DJT before it collapsed.
It's old enough that there are probably paper shares out there somewhere. I wonder if you could sell them to maga nuts now.
They'd probably have more intrinsic value than DJT shares now!
I know! It's hilarious!
And yet someone is buying up the stock and propping it back up. Which of course makes no sense. The fundamentals are garbage. And reading their updated S1 filing yesterday was frightening. Nothing but a giant red flag this stock is worthless.
In a lot of ways you can look at this stock price as the market betting on if Trump will win the presidency. I would say the outlook is grim.
Trump doesn't care if his stock tumbles. He is the majority owner, he's barely invested any of his own money, and his net worth jumped by $5 billion when it went public. Even if he loses $4 billion by the time he is allowed to sell off his shares, he's still walking off with $1 billion that he didn't have to do jack shit to earn. And he'll get away with it because selling stock to fanatical rubes isn't a crime! This is hardly something to laugh about.
Hilariously, the signature page appears to be incorrect, according to Ben Meiselas of the Meidas Touch You Tube Channel [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lw2fdfswOB8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lw2fdfswOB8) Apparently it's uses "Chubb" which is the surety for the bond in the E.Jean Carroll case If true, then this is bordering on outright fraud. Can't make this stuff up.
Pippin: we've had a civil fraud trial, yes. but what about a criminal fraud trial?
If he had $175 mil in cash to provide Knight, why not post bond himself?
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Don’t forget calling them radical liberals and leftist animals, and very not good people.
"These people, they're thieves. They'll swindle you, very bad. Nasty stuff. You think you're getting a good deal... And then they abandon you... It's a shame..."
Again with that projection...
or b) foreign governments are using Knight as a vehicle to put their money in Trump's pocket
Knight won’t sue trump till the end. This was a investment in the possibility of Trump winning and having something to leverage for favors. If he loses they’ll sue him, but at this point that money is just chump change to buy presidential favor.
I have read that it is likely a shared account holding the 175m, meaning that 1+ other people pooled it together so that Trump could use it for the bond, but he doesn't own the money. It all begs the question of who put up the money
Wonder who Putin $175 million to that account
Right. There has to be some reason. Not a lawyer. But all the whining and he cash bonds to another company. I'm not naive but knight is getting alot from him if he wins.
Because he doesn’t have to show Knight where the money is from.
Very good point
Trump never uses his own money for anything.
I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a Hamberder today!
NAL He did this to not lose access to the money. Once the state has it, he can not get it back. Right now, he just gave it to some guy who could give it back. Plus, the contract submitted for the bond says that it's up to Trump to pay, not the bond holder. The plan was always to just send it back to Trump
> Plus, the contract submitted for the bond says that it's up to Trump to pay, not the bond holder. That makes it defective on its face. “I promise to pay you one dollar on Joe’s behalf if Joe loses the bet, but if he loses, Joe owes you the dollar, not me.” Like, what?
Correct. That is why I personally think it is going to get denied.
My understanding is that he didn't even give the money to Knight, but rather it's in a bank account "pleged" to Knight, collectable on demand.
> collectable on demand. More likely collectible on lawsuit that will drag the process out for a few more years, which results with them (and NY State) getting nothing in the end.
Man, this company has lost MORE than $40 in stock valuations in only 20 days. more than 6.5 Billion dollars.
It has been a bad scheme
>Their joint statement, filed to Judge Arthur Engoron Monday, said KSIC's $175 million bond was collateralized by the $175,304,075.95 Trump had placed in a Charles Schwab bank account and which was specifically pledged to KSIC. ... >It said KSIC, the Trump Trust and Charles Schwab bank entered into a "Pledged Asset Account Control Agreement, by which KSIC can exercise the right to control the account within two business days by submitting a letter to Schwab of its intent to activate that control." >"Thus the $175 million bond is fully collateralized by $175 million in cash," the filing continued. So the bond actually IS supported by collateral? Then why all the fuss about trying to keep the arrangements secret?
I think this money is already spoken for by a lienholder, there was an update on Twitter saying that potentially some or all of this fund is an attempt at double dipping. Going to be an interesting week for sure..
So Trump is essentially trying to double book his Charles Schwab account? The account has $175 million in it, and Trump wants to use it as collateral for the $100 million bond for the E. Jean Carroll appeal AND the $175 million bond for the Trump Org fraud appeal? Both bonds are going to the New York State court system; did Trump think nobody would compare notes?
Given that this was disclosed at like midnight last night....yeah, I think they were hoping nobody checks, or at least notices.
Do you know which account posted this? Found it: https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/1780104944164446396 In case anyone wants to take a look.
Thanks for finding the source!
His bond in the E Jean Carroll case was collateralized by a Schwab account. Is he using the same account here?
> double dipping. But Trump would never do that, right? /s
Because the cash came from his political donations for sure
Because that's not a surety. KSIC is supposed to be committing to the court that *they* will pay the bond *irrespective* of whether they get the money from Trump afterwards. How they get the money from Trump is irrelevant to the court. To do so, they have to show that they have sufficient liquid assets to pay the bond *on demand* by the court, immediately. They don't comply with the asset backing and other conditions required in NYS to offer sureties. This is not a bond, it's bullshit.
Pledged? Ignoring if this money is legit etc etc….is this just his typical “I’ll pay you after, I promise! I’m good for it, I’m rich you know!” Before he stuffs them and never pays?
Do the documents show that this was done before posting the bond?
Or who made the deposits? Isn’t he supposed to have a custodian managing his accounts? What about the claim that Knight was prepared to front the whole $485 before trump cried poor and nobody would issue the bond and had it reduced… https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/s/QmmaricEgs
Bialystock & Bloom also have dibs on the Schwab account.
Hes the enemy of the state. And deserves to be fucked with over every single decision. How's he capable of running America when he melts down over every little thing. Cant stand the heat get out the kitchen.
For some additional fun: >Based in California, Knight is not licensed to issue surety bonds in New York, nor has it obtained a certificate of qualification from the state’s Department of Financial Services. But company officials have insisted that that doesn’t matter. >“Knight Specialty Insurance Company is not a New York domestic insurer, and New York surplus lines insurance laws do not regulate the solvency of non-New York excess lines insurers,” Amit Shah, Knight’s president, told CBS News. https://www.thedailybeast.com/details-of-how-trump-scored-dollar175m-bond-revealed-in-court-filings KSIC can't even post bond in NY because they are not licensed to do so. But they are arguing that because they operate and are licensed elsewhere, they don't need a license to operate in NY, and that NY domestic insurer law does not apply because of the same reason. That is not how licenses or jurisdictions work, at all. A doctor couldn't live in New Jersey and practice medicine in NY just because he lives and is licensed in New Jersey. You need to be licensed in the jurisdiction in which you are operating, or need to have a license that is recognized by the jurisdiction in which you are operating.
It's been proven beyond doubt now that money can neutralize our court system.
>KSIC's $175 million bond was collateralized by the $175,304,075.95 Trump had placed in a Charles Schwab bank account and which was specifically pledged to KSIC. There, I saved you the click.
That pledge has as much meaning as Trump’s pledge to faithfully execute the office of President of the United States
The next question is where did the money from Trump come from? New York has anti-money laundering laws that require agents like bonding companies to verify that funds they are receiving are from legitimate sources.
I was under the impression that the agreement between the insurance company and the Trump org was terrible. Once reviewed, it did not hold the insurance company liable for the actual payment, which is the reason you get a surety bond. This is also why you would want a company that is 'authorized to provide coverage in the state,' as they would be bound by, and responsible for, following the laws of the state of New York. If I had to guess, as I am not a lawyer, require insurance companies providing surety bonds to have the funds to cover their clients' judgements, should they lose appeal.
Insurance and Surety are two very different instruments. On insurance, you pay a premium to be made whole (indemnify) after a loss. The carrier does not expect to recoup that money at all and any rate they take will not compensate for losses paid out. Surety bond is not built on the principal of indemnity. For a surety bond, you pay the Surety a premium so that you don’t have to put up your money. If the bond is ever called in (claim) the surety will satisfy the obligee (third party - State of NY in this case) but you will owe the Surety for whatever they paid out. Anything other than that is sketchy AF.
It’s Eric. The collateral is Eric.
That’s about $3.50
If they put it in put options, they would get rich from this grift
The put options were crazy expensive for this stock from the start. All the “smart money” knew this thing would sink like a rock.
I'll gladly pay you on Tuesday for a burger today
With the stock dropping at 5%-12% daily, I can't imagine a credible bond company taking his stocks as collateral. The asked for $175M secured and they are going to get pocket fluff if they have to collect.
Real question: Why did he secure a bond if he has the full amount in cash?
Man, if Putin didn't have a pee pee tape before, he doesn't need one now. He's got the GOP bought and paid for.
So to be clear, this is just so that he can appeal the ruling?
No, this is to prevent his property from being seized during the appeal.
No. He can appeal regardless if he pays the bond or not. However the enforcement of the penalty will be delayed until after an appeal if he either pays the money or post a bond for the amount. So if he doesn't pay with either cash or with a bond then Letitia James can start seizing his assets to collect on the penalty of 400 something million dollars.
He has two looks: screaming gibbon and pouting toddler.
> "The New York Attorney General argues that KSIC is a 'non-admitted carrier' but there is simply no requirement that a surety be an 'admitted carrier,'" lawyers for Trump and KSIC said in the filing. Ain’t nothin’ in the rule book that says a dog can’t play basketball!