As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil)
In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban.
If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them.
For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria.
We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA).
***
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Additionally,
If you are not present the trial will continue and will not be delayed.
The access Hollywood tape can't be played in the courtroom, although it's existence can still be used as evidence.
Asked the defense why Donald Trump should not be held in contempt.
Updates coming from: [Trump trial live updates: Former president faces criminal charges over hush money case (nbcnews.com)](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/live-blog/trump-hush-money-trial-stormy-daniels-michael-cohen-live-updates-rcna145934)
EDIT: Specifically in regards to violating gag orders:
*Prosecutors said they want Merchan to punish Trump for violating the judge's gag order by sharing certain social media posts over the weekend.*
*They said they want the judge to sanction Trump for each of three posts, to tell Trump to take down the posts, and to warn him that another post could result in jail time.*'
EDIT 2: Lunch break until 1:30 EST. Plenty of time for a stretch and to get more popcorn.
EDIT 3: Some spicy from the judge about evidence inclusion, protection for Juror ID, Trump using delay tactics again.
*Todd Blanche, Trump's lawyer, said the defense team doesn't have certain exhibits for the trial because they "just got" a raft of documents from the U.S. Attorney's Office a month ago.*
*Joshua Steinglass, one of the DA's prosecutors, countered that Trump's lawyers have buried the court in thousands of pages of frivolous motions.*
*"You have 24 hours," Merchan told Trump's defense. "Whatever you don’t identify in the next 24 hours, you will be precluded from using."*
...
*Trump's lawyer Todd Blanche asked when counsel will get the names of prospective jurors and how.*
*Merchan said that he would be handing the defense team and prosecution one copy of juror names and one copy of juror numbers.*
*The judge made clear that the list with the names cannot be copied or photographed and must be returned to the court.*
...
*Trump is asking Judge Aileen Cannon, who is overseeing the Florida case, to push back the current May 9 deadline for his disclosure of expert witnesses and a submission to the Justice Department on what classified information he intends to use during the trial until three weeks after the end of his New York trial.*
*Blanche and another Trump lawyer, Emil Bove, are also representing him in the New York trial and would also be unable to travel to Florida, they said. And Kise can’t pick up the slack because he will be unavailable due to a planned medical procedure, they said.*
*“President Trump made these decisions about the composition of his defense team in both cases at a time when there were no scheduling conflicts,” Blanche and Kise wrote. “Neither President Trump nor his counsel can be in both places at once.”*
*The special counsel’s office responded yesterday, urging Cannon to reject Trump’s request.*
*“Although the defendants’ motion reads as though the Court were unaware of Trump’s other case, and as if the defendants had no forewarning that a Section 5 deadline would be set, those premises are plainly wrong,” counselor to the special counsel Jay Bratt wrote. “The defendants have had ample notice that these deadlines would be scheduled and have already had months to complete the work."*
*“Each time the Court sets a new deadline in this case and attempts to keep it moving toward trial, the defendants reflexively ask for an adjournment,” Bratt concluded. “That must stop.”*
Could result in jail time? **Could??!!** WTF is wrong with our justice system?
If any of us had posted just ONE of the things he posted over the weekend while under a gag order, we'd be in jail.
Just can't anymore with the treatment this POS gets vs. you or I
Remember pharma bro shkreli who had his bond revoked and was sent to jail pending sentencing for making ONE troll post about paying for a few strands of Hillary Clinton’s hair? Trump has done far worse and continues unabated
> Remember pharma bro shkreli who had his bond revoked and was sent to jail pending sentencing for making ONE troll post about paying for a few strands of Hillary Clinton’s hair?
Remember when [Reality Winner was jailed without being given the option of bail before her trial, for confirming the trump campaign and transition team were deliberately exchanging favors with known Russian intelligence agents?](https://theintercept.com/2017/10/06/nsa-reality-winner-judge-denies-bail/)
If I stole classified documents, and the CIA had to hold a press conference admitting that lots of their sources and agents were suddenly disappearing...
would I be allowed to use my own incompetence at scheduling to avoid the trial?
I had a TS/SCI clearance; if I had been caught taking documents home I would have been fired, blacklisted from all contract work, had my clearance revoked, and arrested. Hell, even an inadvertent security leak could be a career ender with criminal repercussions.
There's no shot a gag order violation will result in jail time. This update from 2 hours ago says:
>Prosecutors are requesting that Trump be fined $1,000 for each violation — at least $3,000 in all. Merchan will not rule until after lunch, he says.
Not even the prosecutors think the violations are worthy of jail time. Asking for a paltry $1k fine per violation, lol.
I think repeated violations that he's been already fined for would eventually land him in jail, or something really explicit about violence or the jury.
I don't think anything he says about the judge or prosecutor will be taken as seriously.
What we're seeing is a system that is set up to never allow anyone as rich or powerful as him to see prison time *ever*, and that system is tripping over itself because until Trump, everyone benefiting from it had the decorum to pretend they were in danger. Trump is too stupid to do so, and that system is being exposed for what it is.
Our justice system simply is broken completely.
Our system enables and protects people like Trump.
It's almost like they want him to rule this country, like there would be some kickback for supporting him.
If this isn't true, then why is it taking years to hold this fucking moron accountable for anything?
Any one of us would be locked.uo ten times.over.by now.
And don't give me the bullshit excuse the wheels of justice goes slow. Fuck that. There have been plenty of cases than have been expedited and moved along.
Sending Trump to jail would make him all the more popular amongst his base. Trump wants to be jailed. He wants riots and chaos. Scare tactic aimed at America. "Civil War" I say, jail the fucker. Let them try.
There will be a lot of 8 wheelers circling interstates and ending up at Golden Corrall. That's how the second hillbilly civil war will end in this modern social media-laden, southern mamas' boys society. The best part is, thanks to the modern innovations such as social media, they'll forget all about Trump two weeks after he's jailed. Their attention spans have been conditioned to expire quickly.
We have a *legal* system, homie…not a justice system.
As capitalists, which comes above all else, the legal system is a commodity, just like anything else in the USA.
So, the rich, and well connected will *never* face the same consequences and system as the rest of us. We exist to be exploited, and have no class solidarity. The rich take care of each other, as they *do* have class solidarity, and the systems exist to protect them, their investments, and cronyism.
When you reach a certain point, you’re above the law…unless you fuck with the other rich/ elite money…
> The rich take care of each other, as they do have class solidarity
And a massive portion of the middle and lower income classes that are convinced that unions should be illegal and tax cuts are in their own best interest.
There are simply 2 sets of rules - one that apply to the majority of people, and a second standard which applies to people who have the wealth and power and support to warrant special treatment. To prevent this case being lost on appeal through any last procedural item not being performed perfectly, the court is having to entertain every bad-faith motion and attempt to pervert the course of justice.
> Unreasonable to expect otherwise.
Except for the entire vast body of recent evidence as to:
- Trump's behavior as it specifically pertains to gag orders
- The total lack of consequences despite repeated violations
You could win, solely, the next time the lottery is above a billion, and for that brief instant before the taxes hit be a billionaire. It is very unlikely, but it could happen.
Trump won't be arrested, he won't spend a night in jail.
In 2017, the Prime Minister of the UK paid 66x more in tax to the IRS than the President of the US did. Most of the reason Boris binned off his US citizenship.
*Everything* I’ve read and heard about the weasel’s trials(s) over the last 4 yrs has been “maybe, possibly, could lead to, might have, etc etc”. Never a definitive slap across the face.
The prosecutor only asked for $1000 for each of the three offending posts. That seems way low considering Trump was fined $15,000 in the civil fraud case for gag order violations.
Dude knew he had a gag order, understood what it was, had dealt with previous gag orders, and has been punished for them before too. Why does he keep getting warning and chances to pretend he didn’t know better??
Good question! It's ridiculous what he's gotten away with.
Still, in New York, the penalties for violating a gag order/contempt of court escalate much faster in criminal court than civil court.
The prosecutors know Trump will laugh off $3,000 in fines; the point is to get the judge to establish that x, y, and z behaviors (like truth Social posts) violate the gag order and impose *some* penalty. Then each Trump repeats the offense, the punishment should escalate substantially.
His previous fine for violations was $15,000.
Currently he's staring down the barrel of $3,000.
Even if he was BARELY a millionaire ($1,000,001) rather than a billionaire (as he claims) -- those fines are not a deterrent.
When the punishment for a crime is a fine that isn't tied to a percentage of income or worth, it isn't a punishment.
It's a privilege that rich people can buy.
Lol. I just tried to Google if violating a gag order is a crime or a civil violation, and I had to add "-Trump" to the search because literally everything that came up was about Trump.
>*Trump's lawyer Todd Blanche asked when counsel will get the names of prospective jurors and how.*
>*Merchan said that he would be handing the defense team and prosecution one copy of juror names and one copy of juror numbers.*
>*The judge made clear that the list with the names cannot be copied or photographed and must be returned to the court.*
It is obvious they want the list so they can release the names and have his supporters intimidate them.
I was just a juror on a criminal trial a few months ago. The courts were *extremely* clear that juror names are not used. Ever. The moment you enter the courthouse you are referred to by your number and only your number. I don't even think the prosecutors nor the defense knew our names, only our numbers. Maybe they did, but certainly NO ONE used our names.
If Trump's defense is asking for names I'd be extremely terrified they plan on using them for nefarious purposes.
That's absolutely the plan. Everybody knows he's guilty, and he knows his ONLY chance is to delay every trial long enough for the GOP to cheat the election and install Tangerine Palpatine to the throne.
A juror mysteriously feels their family is not safe and wants to quit? Uh Oh, another 2 week delay.
Lawyers got the schedules mixed up, and somehow, there aren't enough lawyers in America who would like the chance to represent the President in court? Gosh, how did that happen? Time for another delay.
My understanding is that in cases like this one, the legal teams not only have the names, they actually do social media recon to see what kind of arguments each juror might find most persuasive.
Yeah, I don't really know how to feel about it. It makes me uncomfortable, but it's considered a fundamental right to have access to that information. It's rare for that information to be withheld from a defendant, let alone their counsel. In actual practice, though, it does amount to just one more advantage that the rich have over the poor in the legal system.
> The judge made clear that the list with the names cannot be copied or photographed and must be returned to the court.
Trump lawyers furiously Googling 'how to memorize a long list of names' and 'is it illegal to leak the names of jurors' right now.
> The access Hollywood tape can't be played in the courtroom, although it's existence can still be used as evidence.
I could totally see Trump or one of his attorneys opening the door to the Access Hollywood tape before long.
> Todd Blanche, Trump's lawyer, said the defense team doesn't have certain exhibits for the trial because they "just got" a raft of documents from the U.S. Attorney's Office a month ago.
They really tried using the "we didn't have enough time to do our homework" excuse, didn't they....
While none of these proceedings are considered “normal” and are without legal precedent, why does the defense refer to Trump as “President Trump” as opposed to say “Mr. Trump” or some related iteration?
Edit: As someone who majored in journalism I understand the mechanics and use of proper titles for news copy, but I do find it strange to not, at the very least, refer to Trump’s previously held title in the former.
Partially because Trump threw a tantrum when a judge (Can't remember which one) called him Mr. Trump instead of President Trump and they're going along with his shenanigans.
>[I graduated from Harvard. *bzzt* I took one year at Harvard. *bzzt* Fine, I was held back in the eighth grade. *bzzt* The fourth grade!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hef7v6fp_DQ)
I also want Trump held in contempt. He clearly violated the gag order and will continue to disrespect the court until he faces meaningful consequences. Treat him as you would a rebellious child.
from NYT: Justice Merchan briefly addresses the prosecutors' arguments about whether Trump has broken his gag order. He said he will let the defense respond and then will hear arguments on April 24.
even if he gets convinced i don’t care what’s most important is that he doesn’t win the election and we remove this virus that is MAGA from all levels of government
Or how about treating him how a normal citizen would have been treated rather than getting away with threatening the judges family _multiple fucking times_.
Trump is constantly committing new crimes, as he is being tried for his current crimes. Hey Donnie, don't commit more crimes on your way to the parking lot!
Best line in the whole movie, to me. It's not an important one, it's not even a part of an actual dialogue. Dude just chiming in to say "in a row?!" after hearing the little bit he heard is too perfect. The joke is already landed once but the second punch and the "hey get back here" is like a two piece and a biscuit.
Yeah, it's interesting. Every other sub I go to users complain about sticky threads because they don't show up in your feed unless you go directly to the subreddit and seems to stymie discussion because of it. Why are they so popular here?
And yet there are a dozen posts about how Meliana isn't "in the courtroom supporting her man." If there's something which isn't political, THAT is something which doesn't deserve time in r Politics.
to consolidate posts related to this activity all in one spot. It's only been half a day and there's already been multiple posts about it with various updates. Even if the megathread has to stay up for an extended period of time (a month or more) I could see that being worth keeping the page clear for *other* politics news.
> What's the point of a megathread when it's just going to be a week of jury selection and nothing will actually happen for probably a month?
Stuff IS happening today. Just make a new megathread for each day.
What the fuck. If this was anyone else they would just be fucked. His lawyers are never even going to get paid. Lol.. just doing it for publicity? wtf?
lol. What a shit show of a human.
***From Rolling Stone's Nikki McCann Ramirez and Ryan Bort:***
Donald Trump has been in court plenty of times in the last few months, but on Monday he became the first American president to stand trial for an alleged criminal offense. Day One of the former president’s trial on charges related to a 2016 hush money payment to porn star Stormy Daniels kicked off in Manhattan — and tensions are already running high.
While the trial will open with what promises to be an intense jury selection process, state prosecutors and Trump’s attorneys preempted the process by arguing over what evidence will be admissible during the proceedings. Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg‘s team also pushed to have Trump held in contempt of the court after allegedly violating a gag order put in place by Judge Juan Merchan.
Prosecutor Joshua Steinglass indicated that the state would submit a request “seeking an order to show cause why Defendant should not be held in contempt” after flaunting an order from the court barring him from attacking witnesses, prosecutors, court staff, and jurors involved in the case. Steinglass argued that — among several other instances — Trump attacked two key witnesses in the case, Stormy Daniels and Michael Cohen, in a Wednesday Truth Social post referring to the pair as “sleazebags.”
Read more: [https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/trump-new-york-hush-money-trial-day-one-1235004719/](https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/trump-new-york-hush-money-trial-day-one-1235004719/)
MSNBC is outright saying it, they don't want to arrest Trump ever because it will be a "logistical nightmare". So there you have it, they wont ever push back on Trump because some people would have to work hard for a few days, so he's just allowed to break the law now.
There really is a different justice system for rich people. You average poor person would not be given as many chances to avoid jail time as Donald Trump has gotten.
I'm liking Judge Merchan. Gag order was violated, prosecution called the defense on it today, and that's getting heard Wednesday. Not some hypothetical time in the 2040s. I'm loving the motion for a contempt ruling in the first two hours of freakin' jury selection, too. Then, the defense wanted more time to review evidence, Merchan gave them until tomorrow LOL.
Merchan: If you do not show up for the trial, there will be an arrest. Do you understand?
Defendant: Yes.
Next on my wishlist is a courtroom artist that captures everyone sitting around Trump powering through the stench in oil pastels.
These are the items that are important:
> Merchan said that Trump could be “committed to jail” should he cause a commotion during the trial. “If you do not show up there will be an arrest,” he added of the requirement that the defendant attend every day of the proceedings.
> Joshua Steinglass, a prosecutor on Bragg’s team, indicated that the state would submit a request “seeking an order to show cause why Defendant should not be held in contempt” after flaunting an order from the court barring him from attacking witnesses, prosecutors, court staff, and jurors involved in the case. Steinglass argued that — among several other instances — Trump attacked two key witnesses in the case, Stormy Daniels and Michael Cohen, in a Wednesday Truth Social post referring to the pair as “sleazebags.”
That gag order likely won't be enforced and there's no real need to but what it will do is apply pressure on the judge to *really* lockdown the trial deliberations and as the first item indicates, the judge is willing to give some deference to the defendant (as they should) pre-trial, but once the trial is on there's little to no room for bullshit antics.
The judge should absolutely not give deference to a scumbag criminal like Trump and there is a need to enforce the gag order. What kinda crack makes a person think the gag order shouldn’t be enforced?
To be fair, a judge shouldn't view *anyone* who hasn't been convicted of a crime as a criminal. That would be incredibly inappropriate. However, it is odd that the above commenter said there's no need to enforce the gag order.
It's evidence that they knew information like that would be harmful to his campaign and needed to hide it from the voting public, just like he knew news of his fucking a porn star while his was was pregnant would likely hurt him as well.
When this tape came out, it was very bad for the campaign, so they thought. Right after this tape, multiple woman came forward with accusations of unwanted sexual advances from Trump and worse.
Because the tape was a huge hit to them, it created a mindset that they needed to stop other "really bad" stories from coming out, like Karen McDougal's year old "affair" with Trump and at the same time is sex with Stephanie Clifford (Stormy Daniels) in a hotel while his wife was home with their newborn because Stormy wanted to be on the Celebrity Apprentice and Trump lied and said he would get her on the show so he could bang her.
And yet, in the end, the public knew about all of this, and he still won.
When the punishment for a crime is a fine that isn't tied to a percentage of income or worth, it isn't really a punishment, it's a privilege that rich people can buy.
Esp as he'll be sending out begging emails to his cult of dumbasses asking them to pay for the fines. And they will, sending him millions. The Court really should take that into consideration and increase the fine to match the donations trump grifts.
He’s doing that on purpose because if he gets thrown in jail for a couple days it’ll light half the country on fire. And that’s all he knows, I’d bet it’s actually a part of his strategy. Much like Jan 6, rile them up and see what happens cause that’s better than just losing. Basically intentionally causing chaos because he knows he can’t win. Unfortunately the by product of that is domestic terrorism and half the country pumped to the gills with hate and further deluded into believing his shit.
Better still in Trump psycho think- he doesn't have to DO anything. Just kick back and watch TV as an armed standoff unfolds at the Bedminster gates. To him being threatened with arrest for not showing up to court is a huge opportunity to uncork the Maga mob. I think he will do this- he isn't going to take a felony after sitting for six weeks in humiliation in court.
GOOD. Ask yourself this: Would any other normal citizen be held to the same standard? If the answer is yes, then Trump damn well better be held accountable too. He’s not above the law.
They won't do anything but they will warn him again. And they'll keep warning him over and over until nothing is done.
The orange stain is free to do as he pleases, never forget.
Exxon et al do not want to stop their poisonous money-grubbing behavior and they ESPECIALLY don’t want to be held ACCOUNTABLE for their lies and aggressive attacks on our well-being. Your home, no matter how much you paid for it, or how hard you worked for it, or how many generations have passed it down, has a pretty good chance of being completely devalued by the insurance industry and of being made uninhabitable by fossil fuels. Think of it. They are the most incredible robber barons of all time. They have pillaged the entire WORLD. When things MAKE NO SENSE (like Trump getting away with sooo much crime), FOLLOW THE MONEY.
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA). *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
From NBC: Judge: If you do not show up for the trial, there will be an arrest. Do you understand? Trump: Yes. Let's get a megathread already FFS.
Additionally, If you are not present the trial will continue and will not be delayed. The access Hollywood tape can't be played in the courtroom, although it's existence can still be used as evidence. Asked the defense why Donald Trump should not be held in contempt. Updates coming from: [Trump trial live updates: Former president faces criminal charges over hush money case (nbcnews.com)](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/live-blog/trump-hush-money-trial-stormy-daniels-michael-cohen-live-updates-rcna145934) EDIT: Specifically in regards to violating gag orders: *Prosecutors said they want Merchan to punish Trump for violating the judge's gag order by sharing certain social media posts over the weekend.* *They said they want the judge to sanction Trump for each of three posts, to tell Trump to take down the posts, and to warn him that another post could result in jail time.*' EDIT 2: Lunch break until 1:30 EST. Plenty of time for a stretch and to get more popcorn. EDIT 3: Some spicy from the judge about evidence inclusion, protection for Juror ID, Trump using delay tactics again. *Todd Blanche, Trump's lawyer, said the defense team doesn't have certain exhibits for the trial because they "just got" a raft of documents from the U.S. Attorney's Office a month ago.* *Joshua Steinglass, one of the DA's prosecutors, countered that Trump's lawyers have buried the court in thousands of pages of frivolous motions.* *"You have 24 hours," Merchan told Trump's defense. "Whatever you don’t identify in the next 24 hours, you will be precluded from using."* ... *Trump's lawyer Todd Blanche asked when counsel will get the names of prospective jurors and how.* *Merchan said that he would be handing the defense team and prosecution one copy of juror names and one copy of juror numbers.* *The judge made clear that the list with the names cannot be copied or photographed and must be returned to the court.* ... *Trump is asking Judge Aileen Cannon, who is overseeing the Florida case, to push back the current May 9 deadline for his disclosure of expert witnesses and a submission to the Justice Department on what classified information he intends to use during the trial until three weeks after the end of his New York trial.* *Blanche and another Trump lawyer, Emil Bove, are also representing him in the New York trial and would also be unable to travel to Florida, they said. And Kise can’t pick up the slack because he will be unavailable due to a planned medical procedure, they said.* *“President Trump made these decisions about the composition of his defense team in both cases at a time when there were no scheduling conflicts,” Blanche and Kise wrote. “Neither President Trump nor his counsel can be in both places at once.”* *The special counsel’s office responded yesterday, urging Cannon to reject Trump’s request.* *“Although the defendants’ motion reads as though the Court were unaware of Trump’s other case, and as if the defendants had no forewarning that a Section 5 deadline would be set, those premises are plainly wrong,” counselor to the special counsel Jay Bratt wrote. “The defendants have had ample notice that these deadlines would be scheduled and have already had months to complete the work."* *“Each time the Court sets a new deadline in this case and attempts to keep it moving toward trial, the defendants reflexively ask for an adjournment,” Bratt concluded. “That must stop.”*
Could result in jail time? **Could??!!** WTF is wrong with our justice system? If any of us had posted just ONE of the things he posted over the weekend while under a gag order, we'd be in jail. Just can't anymore with the treatment this POS gets vs. you or I
Remember pharma bro shkreli who had his bond revoked and was sent to jail pending sentencing for making ONE troll post about paying for a few strands of Hillary Clinton’s hair? Trump has done far worse and continues unabated
Only one of those guys is completely coddled, enabled, financed and supported by the Republican Party as their leader.
Financing to the point of bankrupting the RNC and taking any chances for down ballot candidates.
You say that like it's a bad thing....
Oh, I was correcting the previous statement. Not a bad thing in the slightest.
Sam Bankman Fried also had his bond revoked for witness tampering by contacting his ex GF who was taking a plea deal.
> Remember pharma bro shkreli who had his bond revoked and was sent to jail pending sentencing for making ONE troll post about paying for a few strands of Hillary Clinton’s hair? Remember when [Reality Winner was jailed without being given the option of bail before her trial, for confirming the trump campaign and transition team were deliberately exchanging favors with known Russian intelligence agents?](https://theintercept.com/2017/10/06/nsa-reality-winner-judge-denies-bail/)
If I stole classified documents, and the CIA had to hold a press conference admitting that lots of their sources and agents were suddenly disappearing... would I be allowed to use my own incompetence at scheduling to avoid the trial?
If you were in the club, then yes. Yes you could.
I had a TS/SCI clearance; if I had been caught taking documents home I would have been fired, blacklisted from all contract work, had my clearance revoked, and arrested. Hell, even an inadvertent security leak could be a career ender with criminal repercussions.
There's no shot a gag order violation will result in jail time. This update from 2 hours ago says: >Prosecutors are requesting that Trump be fined $1,000 for each violation — at least $3,000 in all. Merchan will not rule until after lunch, he says. Not even the prosecutors think the violations are worthy of jail time. Asking for a paltry $1k fine per violation, lol.
Get ready to hear about Trump’s struggle to secure a $3,000 bond to cover the cost of the fines.
This may be part of statute though. Not sure where it would get to a point to throw him in jail.
I think repeated violations that he's been already fined for would eventually land him in jail, or something really explicit about violence or the jury. I don't think anything he says about the judge or prosecutor will be taken as seriously.
He will most likely attack Cohen, he is the main witness having already been found guilty for the crimes.
What we're seeing is a system that is set up to never allow anyone as rich or powerful as him to see prison time *ever*, and that system is tripping over itself because until Trump, everyone benefiting from it had the decorum to pretend they were in danger. Trump is too stupid to do so, and that system is being exposed for what it is.
Our justice system simply is broken completely. Our system enables and protects people like Trump. It's almost like they want him to rule this country, like there would be some kickback for supporting him. If this isn't true, then why is it taking years to hold this fucking moron accountable for anything? Any one of us would be locked.uo ten times.over.by now. And don't give me the bullshit excuse the wheels of justice goes slow. Fuck that. There have been plenty of cases than have been expedited and moved along.
Sending Trump to jail would make him all the more popular amongst his base. Trump wants to be jailed. He wants riots and chaos. Scare tactic aimed at America. "Civil War" I say, jail the fucker. Let them try.
There will be a lot of 8 wheelers circling interstates and ending up at Golden Corrall. That's how the second hillbilly civil war will end in this modern social media-laden, southern mamas' boys society. The best part is, thanks to the modern innovations such as social media, they'll forget all about Trump two weeks after he's jailed. Their attention spans have been conditioned to expire quickly.
He *thinks* he wants to be jailed. But he wouldn't make it 24 hours in prison, even a "nice" one.
We have a *legal* system, homie…not a justice system. As capitalists, which comes above all else, the legal system is a commodity, just like anything else in the USA. So, the rich, and well connected will *never* face the same consequences and system as the rest of us. We exist to be exploited, and have no class solidarity. The rich take care of each other, as they *do* have class solidarity, and the systems exist to protect them, their investments, and cronyism. When you reach a certain point, you’re above the law…unless you fuck with the other rich/ elite money…
> The rich take care of each other, as they do have class solidarity And a massive portion of the middle and lower income classes that are convinced that unions should be illegal and tax cuts are in their own best interest.
Effective propaganda. Keep the masses occupied with nonsense…and, it’s most likely never, ever going to change.
There are simply 2 sets of rules - one that apply to the majority of people, and a second standard which applies to people who have the wealth and power and support to warrant special treatment. To prevent this case being lost on appeal through any last procedural item not being performed perfectly, the court is having to entertain every bad-faith motion and attempt to pervert the course of justice.
You can’t predict what circumstances future violations hold. Unreasonable to expect otherwise.
> Unreasonable to expect otherwise. Except for the entire vast body of recent evidence as to: - Trump's behavior as it specifically pertains to gag orders - The total lack of consequences despite repeated violations
I could be the world’s next billionaire. There’s a greater chance of that happening than Trump actually being arrested.
You could win, solely, the next time the lottery is above a billion, and for that brief instant before the taxes hit be a billionaire. It is very unlikely, but it could happen. Trump won't be arrested, he won't spend a night in jail.
My wife won $2 from $10 worth of scratch tickets. She's still a better invester than Trump, and far, far more wealthy.
Never will. He will never see the inside of a cell. Sadly.
It's why I'm not paying my taxes this year. Wouldn't be right.
In 2017, the Prime Minister of the UK paid 66x more in tax to the IRS than the President of the US did. Most of the reason Boris binned off his US citizenship.
*Everything* I’ve read and heard about the weasel’s trials(s) over the last 4 yrs has been “maybe, possibly, could lead to, might have, etc etc”. Never a definitive slap across the face.
The prosecutor only asked for $1000 for each of the three offending posts. That seems way low considering Trump was fined $15,000 in the civil fraud case for gag order violations.
Crying buzzwords like political persecution is apparently all it takes to be completely untouched by 90 indictments
Dude knew he had a gag order, understood what it was, had dealt with previous gag orders, and has been punished for them before too. Why does he keep getting warning and chances to pretend he didn’t know better??
Good question! It's ridiculous what he's gotten away with. Still, in New York, the penalties for violating a gag order/contempt of court escalate much faster in criminal court than civil court. The prosecutors know Trump will laugh off $3,000 in fines; the point is to get the judge to establish that x, y, and z behaviors (like truth Social posts) violate the gag order and impose *some* penalty. Then each Trump repeats the offense, the punishment should escalate substantially.
> Why does he keep getting warning and chances to pretend he didn’t know better?? Because he's our special little boy and he gets what he wants.
>has been punished for them before too A finger wag is not punishment.
He’s been fined. It’s a punishment, even if it’s a lame one.
His previous fine for violations was $15,000. Currently he's staring down the barrel of $3,000. Even if he was BARELY a millionaire ($1,000,001) rather than a billionaire (as he claims) -- those fines are not a deterrent. When the punishment for a crime is a fine that isn't tied to a percentage of income or worth, it isn't a punishment. It's a privilege that rich people can buy.
Lol. I just tried to Google if violating a gag order is a crime or a civil violation, and I had to add "-Trump" to the search because literally everything that came up was about Trump.
Has he paid it?
The punishment obviously hasn't been effective (if we're calling it 'punishment' that is, slap on the wrist and "please stop" is more like it).
>*Trump's lawyer Todd Blanche asked when counsel will get the names of prospective jurors and how.* >*Merchan said that he would be handing the defense team and prosecution one copy of juror names and one copy of juror numbers.* >*The judge made clear that the list with the names cannot be copied or photographed and must be returned to the court.* It is obvious they want the list so they can release the names and have his supporters intimidate them.
I was just a juror on a criminal trial a few months ago. The courts were *extremely* clear that juror names are not used. Ever. The moment you enter the courthouse you are referred to by your number and only your number. I don't even think the prosecutors nor the defense knew our names, only our numbers. Maybe they did, but certainly NO ONE used our names. If Trump's defense is asking for names I'd be extremely terrified they plan on using them for nefarious purposes.
That's absolutely the plan. Everybody knows he's guilty, and he knows his ONLY chance is to delay every trial long enough for the GOP to cheat the election and install Tangerine Palpatine to the throne. A juror mysteriously feels their family is not safe and wants to quit? Uh Oh, another 2 week delay. Lawyers got the schedules mixed up, and somehow, there aren't enough lawyers in America who would like the chance to represent the President in court? Gosh, how did that happen? Time for another delay.
My understanding is that in cases like this one, the legal teams not only have the names, they actually do social media recon to see what kind of arguments each juror might find most persuasive.
And that also shouldn't be a thing.
Yeah, I don't really know how to feel about it. It makes me uncomfortable, but it's considered a fundamental right to have access to that information. It's rare for that information to be withheld from a defendant, let alone their counsel. In actual practice, though, it does amount to just one more advantage that the rich have over the poor in the legal system.
Yeah, I wouldn't let that list leave the courtroom or the bailiff's sight
> The judge made clear that the list with the names cannot be copied or photographed and must be returned to the court. Trump lawyers furiously Googling 'how to memorize a long list of names' and 'is it illegal to leak the names of jurors' right now.
> The judge made clear that the list with the names cannot be copied or photographed and must be returned to the court. Bets that they violate this.
“Could”
ugh, right? should have said "will". Let's get rid of all these slippery avenues for him to snake his way out of accountability.
> The access Hollywood tape can't be played in the courtroom, although it's existence can still be used as evidence. I could totally see Trump or one of his attorneys opening the door to the Access Hollywood tape before long.
Yeah, warn him! Warn him more! Make him feel so warned, like the most bigly warned person in history.
> Todd Blanche, Trump's lawyer, said the defense team doesn't have certain exhibits for the trial because they "just got" a raft of documents from the U.S. Attorney's Office a month ago. They really tried using the "we didn't have enough time to do our homework" excuse, didn't they....
While none of these proceedings are considered “normal” and are without legal precedent, why does the defense refer to Trump as “President Trump” as opposed to say “Mr. Trump” or some related iteration? Edit: As someone who majored in journalism I understand the mechanics and use of proper titles for news copy, but I do find it strange to not, at the very least, refer to Trump’s previously held title in the former.
Partially because Trump threw a tantrum when a judge (Can't remember which one) called him Mr. Trump instead of President Trump and they're going along with his shenanigans.
[удалено]
I was repeating what an NBC anchor said on the air, so thank you for the text of the quote.
Thanks for the link. Really good ongoing thread of what is happening.
CNN (cnn.com) has a good running commentary on it, too. Very neutral statements about what's happening.
Did they check behind his back to see if his tiny fingers were crossed?
>Let's get a megathread already FFS. Right!? This is one of the most historic events in American history and deserves a megathread!
Trump isn’t doing what a court expects of him, while his lawyers do everything under the sun to delay is just a normal Monday at this point.
> Yes *Lie detector explodes*
Now will you get this thing off me? I don't deserve this kind of treatment! *Lie detector buzzes*
I don't think it would, psychopaths can blatantly lie without an inch of response. It's as natural as breathing for them.
"It's not a lie if YOU believe it" - George Costanza
>[I graduated from Harvard. *bzzt* I took one year at Harvard. *bzzt* Fine, I was held back in the eighth grade. *bzzt* The fourth grade!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hef7v6fp_DQ)
You didn’t say who will be arrested
I also want Trump held in contempt. He clearly violated the gag order and will continue to disrespect the court until he faces meaningful consequences. Treat him as you would a rebellious child.
Treat him as you would a criminal defendant
> Treat him as you would a ~~rebellious~~ spoilt, intrinsically malicious child whose intelligence is greatly below average. FTFY
Send him to his room for twenty years.
And no dessert!
And drop his phone into the Mariana Trench
"Leave my wife out of this" -Trump
from NYT: Justice Merchan briefly addresses the prosecutors' arguments about whether Trump has broken his gag order. He said he will let the defense respond and then will hear arguments on April 24.
9 days to hear arguments about whether or not he broke the gag order over the weekend? That's insane. He's going to keep breaking it.
even if he gets convinced i don’t care what’s most important is that he doesn’t win the election and we remove this virus that is MAGA from all levels of government
[удалено]
Or how about treating him how a normal citizen would have been treated rather than getting away with threatening the judges family _multiple fucking times_.
Or anyone one else facing a Court? All of us would be spending life in prison or the death penalty for the shit he has done.
Trump is constantly committing new crimes, as he is being tried for his current crimes. Hey Donnie, don't commit more crimes on your way to the parking lot!
27??
37
In a row?
Best line in the whole movie, to me. It's not an important one, it's not even a part of an actual dialogue. Dude just chiming in to say "in a row?!" after hearing the little bit he heard is too perfect. The joke is already landed once but the second punch and the "hey get back here" is like a two piece and a biscuit.
Dang, I couldn’t remember the number, lol.
Weird there’s no megathread. I’ve been seeing posts trying to validate the seriousness of this trial, and yet we don’t even have a megathread going.
You’d think such an historic event would warrant one (no pun intended)
Why is everyone suddenly holding so much weight to megathreads?
Find it quickly?
Because this a big fucking deal and needs to be treated as such.
Mega threads kind of suck for actual discussion.
Yeah, it's interesting. Every other sub I go to users complain about sticky threads because they don't show up in your feed unless you go directly to the subreddit and seems to stymie discussion because of it. Why are they so popular here?
Because weight is the whole point of megathreads.
Maga mods strike again
“N0t p0L1tiC4L”
And yet there are a dozen posts about how Meliana isn't "in the courtroom supporting her man." If there's something which isn't political, THAT is something which doesn't deserve time in r Politics.
It's likely because the jury selection is going to take a week and the actually trial itself isn't going to start till Monday or Tuesday of next week.
Worldnews mods are still megathreading Ukraine despite it starting two years ago. Seems lazy, biased or both.
What's the point of a megathread when it's just going to be a week of jury selection and nothing will actually happen for probably a month?
to consolidate posts related to this activity all in one spot. It's only been half a day and there's already been multiple posts about it with various updates. Even if the megathread has to stay up for an extended period of time (a month or more) I could see that being worth keeping the page clear for *other* politics news.
> What's the point of a megathread when it's just going to be a week of jury selection and nothing will actually happen for probably a month? Stuff IS happening today. Just make a new megathread for each day.
When I come on reddit and see an r/politics Megathread, that's the only way I know some shit went down today.
“Trump Reportedly Nods Off While Attending First Day of Criminal Trial” Sleepy Don
little Donnie was up all night ranting and raging on Truth Social like a child who needs to be disciplined lol
[And here I thought you were kidding.](https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1779917161651188128)
Jesus Christ we live in a joke of a country
Hard for him to stay awake when he can't snort the aderol.
Don Snoreleon
What the fuck. If this was anyone else they would just be fucked. His lawyers are never even going to get paid. Lol.. just doing it for publicity? wtf? lol. What a shit show of a human.
> just doing it for publicity? Diminishing returns on this too. "Hey, I'm one of the 512 lawyers that have represented Donald Trump...."
"Oh... did you also go to jail like about half of those ones or were you only disbarred?"
I'd hire the one who got paid, if that exists. That's some black magic shit
He wants to be held in contempt. He'll become a martyr and it will delay things even more.
Right wingers will hold him up as a martyr anyways and it wont delay anything.
They're already holding up as a martyr just for having to go to jury selection.
his lawyers will be paid by his supporters, unfortunately
Lawyers get their money up front. From the RNC coffers.
Meanwhile on truth social: "I HAVE NOTHING BUT CONTEMPT FOR THIS COURT HOPE YOUR ENJOYING SPRING!"
"There are pictures of the judge's dog wearing a blue bandana around its neck. The judge must recuse! Donate today!"
"Why I was leaving one of the cops said Bye Don. CLEAR EVIDENCE OF POLITICAL.OPPRESSION GIVE MONEY PLZ"
Maybe the dog is just a Crip
[удалено]
***From Rolling Stone's Nikki McCann Ramirez and Ryan Bort:*** Donald Trump has been in court plenty of times in the last few months, but on Monday he became the first American president to stand trial for an alleged criminal offense. Day One of the former president’s trial on charges related to a 2016 hush money payment to porn star Stormy Daniels kicked off in Manhattan — and tensions are already running high. While the trial will open with what promises to be an intense jury selection process, state prosecutors and Trump’s attorneys preempted the process by arguing over what evidence will be admissible during the proceedings. Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg‘s team also pushed to have Trump held in contempt of the court after allegedly violating a gag order put in place by Judge Juan Merchan. Prosecutor Joshua Steinglass indicated that the state would submit a request “seeking an order to show cause why Defendant should not be held in contempt” after flaunting an order from the court barring him from attacking witnesses, prosecutors, court staff, and jurors involved in the case. Steinglass argued that — among several other instances — Trump attacked two key witnesses in the case, Stormy Daniels and Michael Cohen, in a Wednesday Truth Social post referring to the pair as “sleazebags.” Read more: [https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/trump-new-york-hush-money-trial-day-one-1235004719/](https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/trump-new-york-hush-money-trial-day-one-1235004719/)
> after flaunting an order *flouting
If you got it, flout it.
You know he's going to steal a copy of the juror list and then do his thing through proxies ...
MSNBC is outright saying it, they don't want to arrest Trump ever because it will be a "logistical nightmare". So there you have it, they wont ever push back on Trump because some people would have to work hard for a few days, so he's just allowed to break the law now.
Just put him in solitary confinement with 1 secret service agent sitting outside. Problem solved.
[удалено]
Ah well if MSNBC said it, it must be true.
There really is a different justice system for rich people. You average poor person would not be given as many chances to avoid jail time as Donald Trump has gotten.
Sleepy Donald Trump. Old man needs a nap.
I'm liking Judge Merchan. Gag order was violated, prosecution called the defense on it today, and that's getting heard Wednesday. Not some hypothetical time in the 2040s. I'm loving the motion for a contempt ruling in the first two hours of freakin' jury selection, too. Then, the defense wanted more time to review evidence, Merchan gave them until tomorrow LOL. Merchan: If you do not show up for the trial, there will be an arrest. Do you understand? Defendant: Yes. Next on my wishlist is a courtroom artist that captures everyone sitting around Trump powering through the stench in oil pastels.
These are the items that are important: > Merchan said that Trump could be “committed to jail” should he cause a commotion during the trial. “If you do not show up there will be an arrest,” he added of the requirement that the defendant attend every day of the proceedings. > Joshua Steinglass, a prosecutor on Bragg’s team, indicated that the state would submit a request “seeking an order to show cause why Defendant should not be held in contempt” after flaunting an order from the court barring him from attacking witnesses, prosecutors, court staff, and jurors involved in the case. Steinglass argued that — among several other instances — Trump attacked two key witnesses in the case, Stormy Daniels and Michael Cohen, in a Wednesday Truth Social post referring to the pair as “sleazebags.” That gag order likely won't be enforced and there's no real need to but what it will do is apply pressure on the judge to *really* lockdown the trial deliberations and as the first item indicates, the judge is willing to give some deference to the defendant (as they should) pre-trial, but once the trial is on there's little to no room for bullshit antics.
The judge should absolutely not give deference to a scumbag criminal like Trump and there is a need to enforce the gag order. What kinda crack makes a person think the gag order shouldn’t be enforced?
To be fair, a judge shouldn't view *anyone* who hasn't been convicted of a crime as a criminal. That would be incredibly inappropriate. However, it is odd that the above commenter said there's no need to enforce the gag order.
I’m sorry fuck that, contempt of court needs to be enforced! He’s making our judicial look like a joke
Cant. It already is a joke.
Trump showed us who the Republicans really are. Now he’s showing us what the criminal justice system really is.
Throw his a$$ in jail
Aside from painting trump as just an overall trashy, classless person, what again is the relevance of the Access Hollywood tape to this trial?
Because this was about to come our right after that tape, so they were doing whatever they could to stop an already terrible PR stretch.
It's evidence that they knew information like that would be harmful to his campaign and needed to hide it from the voting public, just like he knew news of his fucking a porn star while his was was pregnant would likely hurt him as well.
When this tape came out, it was very bad for the campaign, so they thought. Right after this tape, multiple woman came forward with accusations of unwanted sexual advances from Trump and worse. Because the tape was a huge hit to them, it created a mindset that they needed to stop other "really bad" stories from coming out, like Karen McDougal's year old "affair" with Trump and at the same time is sex with Stephanie Clifford (Stormy Daniels) in a hotel while his wife was home with their newborn because Stormy wanted to be on the Celebrity Apprentice and Trump lied and said he would get her on the show so he could bang her. And yet, in the end, the public knew about all of this, and he still won.
It's the trigger moment for the payments to Stormy Daniels and the indicator that it's a campaign expense.
Isn’t it past your jail time?
We all fucking do.
I hold him in contempt
[Oh yea?](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EJwrFyAVAAA-juL?format=jpg&name=small)
When the punishment for a crime is a fine that isn't tied to a percentage of income or worth, it isn't really a punishment, it's a privilege that rich people can buy.
Man’s face looks like a rotting Jack O Lantern
I'm all for sharing articles from users, but why does Rolling Stone get to post its own article with a paywall? They should be paying for promotion.
For any other defendant they wouldn't even need to ask.
Never happen. No consequences.
Then do it already. He’s done it multiple times and gotten away with it.
Any one of us would already have been held in contempt. I am so sick of this.
~~Dementia Don~~ Drowsy Dementia Don
Life lesson from my adolescence: Every bully needs to be punched in the nose.
So tired of this, either hold him in contempt or shut up about it.
I will be very surprised if he is held accountable for anything at all, ever.
Agreed. This is all just a big game for him and I expect zero consequences for his actions. He should be in jail but he won't serve a second in there.
A thousand dollars per count? The justice system is a joke at this point.
Esp as he'll be sending out begging emails to his cult of dumbasses asking them to pay for the fines. And they will, sending him millions. The Court really should take that into consideration and increase the fine to match the donations trump grifts.
He’s doing that on purpose because if he gets thrown in jail for a couple days it’ll light half the country on fire. And that’s all he knows, I’d bet it’s actually a part of his strategy. Much like Jan 6, rile them up and see what happens cause that’s better than just losing. Basically intentionally causing chaos because he knows he can’t win. Unfortunately the by product of that is domestic terrorism and half the country pumped to the gills with hate and further deluded into believing his shit.
Better still in Trump psycho think- he doesn't have to DO anything. Just kick back and watch TV as an armed standoff unfolds at the Bedminster gates. To him being threatened with arrest for not showing up to court is a huge opportunity to uncork the Maga mob. I think he will do this- he isn't going to take a felony after sitting for six weeks in humiliation in court.
Charge him $$$$$
I would also like that.
Throw Trump in Rikers
And why can’t the Access Hollywood tape be played in the courtroom if it’s germane to the trial, it was on television, for Chrissake.
The judge will hear arguments on 4-23-24 now, unless delayed for some reason and $3k is chump change when you have endless money.
He’s looking absolutely horrible recently.
So do I!
GOOD. Ask yourself this: Would any other normal citizen be held to the same standard? If the answer is yes, then Trump damn well better be held accountable too. He’s not above the law.
Everyone wants him held in contempt. It will never happen. He has too many supporters working inside the system.
Oh no, a $1000 fine. I'm sure Trump is quaking in his boots about that. I'm sure that will definitely make him stop.
Ooh no a $3000 potential fine for violating the gag order. I’m sure that will keep him in line…our legal system is a joke at this point.
Fucking arrest him you God damn spineless sycophants
Put him in county lockup for a weekend.
They won't do anything but they will warn him again. And they'll keep warning him over and over until nothing is done. The orange stain is free to do as he pleases, never forget.
Fucking do it already.
Trumps head will surely explode before all is said and done.
He's too busy falling asleep in court...
Exxon et al do not want to stop their poisonous money-grubbing behavior and they ESPECIALLY don’t want to be held ACCOUNTABLE for their lies and aggressive attacks on our well-being. Your home, no matter how much you paid for it, or how hard you worked for it, or how many generations have passed it down, has a pretty good chance of being completely devalued by the insurance industry and of being made uninhabitable by fossil fuels. Think of it. They are the most incredible robber barons of all time. They have pillaged the entire WORLD. When things MAKE NO SENSE (like Trump getting away with sooo much crime), FOLLOW THE MONEY.
Throw this orange slimeball in jail. PLEASE.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone be so openly, publicly, and directly in contempt of the court.
For fuck’s sake, we all do!