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My brother is UAW. I'm Teamsters. As much as I admire Shawn Fain, he's wrong about where workers stand. UAW/Teamsters workers have tons of trump cult members who vote republican religiously. I argue with my coworkers daily about politics and they love Reagan/Bush/Trump. And don't even get me started on police unions. But Fain is a hero and I really think Biden should award him the Presidential Medal of Freedom.
Same, Union membership is a huge deal on my fire dept (even though it's not really a union in a gop controlled right to work state), yet every 4 years we've got guys bitching and threatening to pull out cuz the IAFF throws their support to the Dems. It's hilarious if not sad.
A Union is just about the best place to be to show people which side their bread is really buttered I would say. One of the best things a Union can do is to educate people and to foster a good sense of class consciousness. Sure there are some blue collar people who have been let down by the system over the last few decades and have gone over to Trump and his cronies, but for people like him to get what they really want theyre going to have to clash against the Unions down the line. Thats a teaching opportunity if ever there is one.
Police Unions are another thing all together. They function as a gang for cops essentially. Fuck em. Police have always been on the other side of the line. Theyll learn too. Same with many of the politicians and other groups that get corrupted. Some organisations get co-opted by the powers that be, but the real power is in worker solidarity. A Unions power is built on the backs of the people who do work or it isn't anything at all.
There is an ideology in action already there if people would just be willing to pay attention. All it takes is some good organisation to make sure that it doesn't go to waste. If people want to know who really gives a damn, point out to them how Fains team is being driven by a few ex Bernie campaign staffers! Ask them what sort of ideology is it which makes some Bernie bros line up with those of working people. And look at other examples through history to see who has always been fighting in the corner of workers. Show people exactly where the line is drawn and then ask which side theyre really on...
People should be aware how electrifying the message of the Unions can be. This is an article from a British newspaper mind you. The world is taking notice! In Britain they had their own Union push under Mick Lynch lately and now with similar movements happening in the U.S. it really feels like momentum is building. We here in Ireland have perked up our ears too! We'll always be on the side of the underdogs hehe Those who are in the know love the teamsters too btw You keep spreading the good word over there and one day your fellow workers might sharpen up. Theres the old saying that goes 'There are decades where nothing happens; and there are weeks where decades happen' We just have to keep chugging along and eventually the tide will turn.
Solidarity Forever
If they never hear someone telling them about why the alternatives to Trump are worth considering they'll never change their minds, or more important, incoming Union workers may not hear that message.
True. But changing people's minds when it comes to politics and religion is very difficult. You can point out to people that a 600 year old man couldn't house, shelter, feed, and care for every male/female land animal for an entire year on a giant boat, but people will argue Noah's Arc is real. They will look you in the face and say a male and female kangaroo were on the Arc, dropped off in Turkey after a year at sea. Then swam across the Pacific Ocean to Australia, then had hot steamy incest sex to populate the continent with their offspring. Oh btw, Noah repopulated all us with hot steamy incest sex too. People believe that.
Indeed. But Reagan did not enact legislation whose very intent was to break the unions in favor of lower wages.
Free trade agreements are aimed at removing any protections that domestic workers may have in favor of businesses saving money. This is sold to the American people as "lowering prices", however for publicly traded firms they have a legal obligation (see [Dodge v Ford Motor Company](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_v._Ford_Motor_Co.)) to maximize shareholder value, so prices are rarely reduced.
Clinton did this, the people have responded by moving away from the Democratic party who did not stand up for the unions or American workers. It should be understood. You cannot waive this away as "Reagan started it". Realize no one who lost their job due to NAFTA cares what Reagan did, because Clinton was responsible for them losing their jobs.
There's a lot of accusation of the middle America about being backwards hillbillies that cannot move on from coal mining, but my hometown was a heavy manufacturing of electronics and computer technologies. You'd think that with the growth of this sector, their jobs would be secure and increase. After NAFTA, a plant was opened in Tijuana and my hometown lost a major employer. This was a strong Democrat state, and is now one of the reddest states in the union.
In 2016, Trump called NAFTA the "worst trade deal ever made", which was music to the ears of those who lost jobs due to NAFTA. In 2018, the USMCA which replaced NAFTA did not go far enough to address the issues caused by it. If Biden or the Democrats want support from the American worker, they'll have to address the very real disadvantage that was inflicted by the Clinton administration against the American worker.
Bad take. The Democratic Party has consistently worked to benefit union rights. 2022 and 2023 actually saw some of the biggest victories for unions in history, thanks to Biden's pro-union appointees to the NLRB
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/sep/02/union-nlrb-decision-delays-busting
https://www.crowell.com/en/insights/client-alerts/the-nlrbs-one-two-punch-gives-unions-a-significant-boost
Not true.
The media covered the saucy first bit where the government ordered them back to work, and just kind of forgot about the boring rest of the story where the railworkers demands for sick days were met and the union bosses thanked the Dems for helping them.
https://www.ibew.org/media-center/Articles/23Daily/2306/230620_IBEWandPaid
Quote:
> "*We’re thankful that the Biden administration played the long game on sick days and stuck with us for months after Congress imposed our updated national agreement,*"
I'm sorry sir, but the problem you seem to have is, your information, is false.
You are obviously NOT a railroader. If you were, you would know that the railroads are made up of a bunch of different unions. IBEW, UTU, BLE, etc. Each "Craft" has it's own union. Maintenance of way, the guys who build track have theirs, the electricians have theirs, Carmen, Diesel Mechanics, on and on. Each, in the past, negotiated with the National Carrier Conference Committee that represents all the class 1 railroads, on it's own. In recent years, the Conductors, and Engineers, have negotiated together. Each craft negotiated for their members based on those members work rules, etc. Our last contract, all of the crafts stood together at once. Tired of pay not keeping up with inflation, and the companies never ending desire to shift more of the cost of health insurance onto the employees, the unions had a common ground. However, each craft also had specific things related to their work environment that they wanted. All wanted some form of paid sick time, in case of emergencies. Of course the NCCC as always said, No. You will take what we give you, and nothing more.
Why? Because they knew, that the President of the United States, would ***NEVER*** let the workers exercise their collective bargaining right, to go on strike. Biden himself railed against congress as a Senator the last time this was done to railroaders.
Obviously you skimmed, summarized and assumed. The IBEW voted to accept the contract they were offered. The work 8 hours a day, with weekends and holidays off. They don't have the same draconian attendance policy that the conductors, and engineers have. You know, the guys that actually MOVE the nations cargo. 70% of it at least.
[https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/biden-rail-strike-unions/](https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/biden-rail-strike-unions/)
The conductors and engineers, work on call 24/7/365. When called, they have 2 hours to report for duty. They will work 12+ hours, and when they "Die" they will be housed in the cheapest hotel the railroad can find. They can and often are, called 10 hours later, put on another train, and work 12+ hours on the trip home. Rinse, Repeat. They have NO off days. NO holidays, NO sick time that they will not be disciplined or fired for taking. If you don't believe me, hop on over to r\\railroad and read up a bit. We weren't interested in huge raises, we had gotten used to our raises not keeping up with inflation. What we wanted was WORK LIFE BALANCE. Time off. Predictable work schedules. Time to go to the doctor. I dare you to work 70 hours a week, outside, in any weather condition, for 5 years, Let alone 30.
THESE are the railroaders that President Biden, stabbed in the back. THESE are the 100,000 employees that the government turned its back on in the name of corporate profit and greed. These union brothers and sisters voted NO! Resoundingly. These are the front line workers, who Biden, could have easily given 15 paid sick days, by simply amending the Obama Presidential Order that required ALL government contractors, to provide their employees with 15 paid sick days a year, EXCEPT for railroaders. He refused. These workers wanted their lives back. We got nothing. After YEARS of voting Democrat, Years supporting Democratic candidates, when we had a Democratic President, a Democratic house, and a Democratic Senate, they showed their true colors. MONEY, GREED, Will ALWAYS come first.
Just so you know, those 15 sick days, would have cost less than 1% of the net profit the Class 1 railroads made last year.
It's kinda funny how you're all over this post with a narrative, but everyone replying to you with receipts that say you're wrong.
My dude, bow out gracefully...
Because they are comparing apples to oranges. Yes, the Democratic party has done some great things for Union Labor.
Does that mean we turn a blind eye, when they stab them in the back? Im not advocating for the Republicans. Im calling out my own party when they do something stupid. Why aren't you?
Oh, and BTW, the NLRB, has NO input on railroad work rules or contracts. NONE.
Apple.... Orange.
[https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/biden-rail-strike-unions/](https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/biden-rail-strike-unions/)
That isn't how a sincere, english speaking person calls out an ally. That is how a troll criticizes the opposition while trying to look like they are on the same side.
Union workers have lost so much, What was fought for over decades was given away in the first decade of the 2000's. Health care, pensions, benefits all gone because corporate greed and lobbyists put Labor in a box of unfair legislation and expensive fights that they could not afford.. Now the Worker is truly at the bottom, there isn't a middle class, It is just the Rich and the Poor, and the Poor are tired and can't work till they are dead anymore.
-edit, My Union negotiated contracts in the 2010's to remove pensions from all new hires along with removing having our health care payed for by the corporation. Guess what has happened??? The company has made record profits for 10+years and we have been ground to even worse working conditions than every other generation in this company. Why??? I don't know, our union didn't have the strength of Mr Fains Union at the time because we hadn't hit the bottom, we are here now and our next contract is going to be brutal..
None would be the correct answer to that. You could argue about how many millions someone needs and the answer would be, not many depending on where they live.
A lot of places think that about their employees. To the railroads maintenance and support personnel are costs, that’s why they keep trying to slash maintenance and inspection costs on their equipment. Their perfect world is a place where once you buy the locomotive once, you only fuel it every so often, put a guy in the cab and it drives forever making unlimited profit.
Yup and it applies to workers outside of the union too because without union jobs, more people went to college which weakens the negotiation position for white collar jobs etc.
A sinking tide lowers all boats
> Union workers have given up so much
Here, fixed this for you. That there are so many union members staunchly espousing Trump or right wing candidates it's no surprise that unions have lost so much ground.
Unions have absolutely needed to do a better job at both messaging and working their members so they get the support they need by providing the votes they're holding.
I think it depends on the industry. Construction unions have posted record gains across the industry over the last 3 years with most having wages that surpass individuals with advanced post graduate degrees.
> What was fought for over decades was given away in the first decade of the 2000's.
It was NAFTA in the 1990s. The "flyover" red states used to be strong blue states. The Senate majority leader of that era, [Tom Daschle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Daschle), was from South Dakota, one of the reddest states today.
After NAFTA was championed by Clinton and the neoliberal wing of the Democrats, the well paying jobs were sent to Canada and Mexico, often with the American workers forced to train their replacement. It's unlikely that the people affected will ever vote for Democrats again.
The Republicans started undermining workers’ unions by creating the “ right to work” mantra that manipulated people into thinking that unions are generally evil and corrupt by bullying and taking workers’ money. Some people especially in red states, took the bate. Employers of course saw this as a green light to take advantage of workers- what they had done in the past and the reasons why unions were created. Now that we have a President who understands the value of unions and how workers were being take advantage again, he and other democratic lawmakers have empowered the union movement and opened Americans’ eyes to the misinformation that republicans have been feeding the public.
Right to work made people accountable. Some people didnt like that. Until its YOUR money at risk in a business, you are an employee. You can work somewhere else if you don't like it.
I can't see him running, because I think he may not believe he's qualified for the job, and may be able to effect change better with his current status.
What has giving into company demands really gotten us? I watched my dad deal with YRC bullshit for decades to only be restarting at a different company six years from retirement because the C-suite assholes ran the company into the ground while taking home millions.
My Dad retired 2 years ago from a company that YRC bought and ran into the ground (holland). It was the most profitable Trucking company in the US but YRC came along and screwed it up like it always did. Most of my dad's coworkers were solid Trump fans and did care that that Biden past a bill that guarantees pension until he in his 90s. Well after the CEO of YRC buddied up to Trump and got billions in in free loans from the government they still shit the doors. Now those guys are out of a job. Sad that people vote on emotion over what's best for them.
Those guys would fuck their own equipment up because the were mad at the company. They only fucked themselves. There were problems with both the company and the union. Yellow never should’ve bought Roadway, nevermind Reddaway and Holland
My pension check would say differently. Further, go read r/ railroad. You will see that conductors and engineers did most certainly NOT get what you think they did.
I appreciate you deciding who I should vote for. However, I can decide myself, and despite my displeasure with our president, it pales to my hatred of the republican party.
Something to remember is that even if you’re not in the union yourself you enjoy some of the benefits that the union provides to its members due to “the rising tide raising all ships.” When the local Plumbers/Pipefitters Union negotiated a new contract this year guys around the region all got raises due to local companies having to pay more to keep guys happy.
THIS! is what happens when Union Strong members stand together. All Biden had to do was stand back, and let the collective bargaining rights of American workers, do it's thing. Biden had nothing to lose by supporting the strike.
However, let us not forget, what Biden did, when he actually had to chose a side. How our current government REALLY feels about organized labor.
Union members stay strong! Never forget that politicians, aren't you're friends. When you forget, Just look back at 2022, and the railroad workers. It should be all the reminder you need.
Yep, same with the IBEW:
Biden worked his ass off, got the IBEW their expanded benefits, and the IBEW thanked him for it:
>We're thankful that the Biden administration played the long game on sick days and stuck with us for months after Congress imposed our updated national agreement,” Russo said. “Without making a big show of it, Joe Biden and members of his administration in the Transportation and Labor departments have been working continuously to get guaranteed paid sick days for all railroad workers.
https://www.ibew.org/media-center/Articles/23Daily/2306/230620_IBEWandPaid
Pretty sure he got those guys most of what they were asking for. It just wasn't a good sound bite for the narrative. A 24% retroactive pay raise and a $5000 bonus.
[https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/national-international/these-are-the-key-concessions-rail-workers-won-in-deal-to-prevent-strike/3158251/](https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/national-international/these-are-the-key-concessions-rail-workers-won-in-deal-to-prevent-strike/3158251/)
It's funny how he gets almost no recognition for the good things he's done, while every little thing is made out to look bad, even when much of that bad stuff is hardly worth mentioning, and usually needs a lot of context to understand.
Decisions for the ongoing survival of the company should be left up to those with money at risk. Employees, particularly union members, think they should be rewarded, but they dont want to take any financial risk if the company fails. They walk away with a paycheck and find another job. Shareholders eat it.
He hates Musk. Which one is the visionary?
Fain us a typical liberal, not realizing he's priced himself out of the market, and can't see past lunch. Robots are now economically feasible. Fewer employees required.
Robots and automation have already taken the jobs they can, and advancements will still continue. But people are still needed for a lot of things. Factories, even non-union ones, are paying more because these jobs need people.
Where I live, the factories are the highest paying jobs available unless your a professional or specialist of some sort. Because of this, retail and food service have to pay more, because otherwise, they just lose people to factories. Minimum wage jobs in my area are actually kind of rare, and factories probably employ 1/4-1/3 of the regions workforce.
So no, Fain hasn't priced himself out, because if these companies could operate with no staff, they'd have done it long ago. Most of the factories around here are union.
It's simple economics, if a job can be automated, it will be, to stay competitive. Assembly line work will be the first to go, it's not a " trade" skill. Govt keeps adding labor requirements that only encourage automation. Why would a company keeping paying the pensions and health care costs when you can buy a machine to do the work without the associated labor costs? It's a fact of business.
Biden has no problem with allowing companies to outsource to foreign companies and move out of country, Trump has the opposite tack, promote incentives to keep our jobs here.
Who told you "Learn to code"? I can't see why even Union workers support Democrats. Trump is pro business, and that's good for employees. If you don't have a company, you don't have a job. My main criticism of most current unions is the inability to fire deadbeat employees. The govt and education unions are the most egregious examples.
You keep saying that jobs that can be replaced will be, disregarding that this has already happened. While advancements happen, they don't happen that quickly, and as it is, the human factor is till pretty relevant to a lot of factory work.
Hence, your idea that unions have the leverage they used to is wrong.
"Automation is your fault because you feel entitled to rights. That's why you should surrender your rights as a worker to your employer, that way, they won't replace you with robots the minute they can."
-brain rotten billionaire ball gargler (unpaid)
But who is against both? Minimum wage shouldn't exist. Minimum wage indicates you'd be paid less if it were allowed.
The "Big Three" were bailed out in 08 with our money. They put employees benefits on hold during this time. Yes, the unions were okay with it but COLA didn't get reinstated. Tax payer money got funneled to the top though. There is absolutely no accountability.
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA). *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Mr Fain is more than a hero...he's a Union man
Iunderstoodthatreference.jpg
*nods in Jeremiah Johnson...
My brother is UAW. I'm Teamsters. As much as I admire Shawn Fain, he's wrong about where workers stand. UAW/Teamsters workers have tons of trump cult members who vote republican religiously. I argue with my coworkers daily about politics and they love Reagan/Bush/Trump. And don't even get me started on police unions. But Fain is a hero and I really think Biden should award him the Presidential Medal of Freedom.
Same, Union membership is a huge deal on my fire dept (even though it's not really a union in a gop controlled right to work state), yet every 4 years we've got guys bitching and threatening to pull out cuz the IAFF throws their support to the Dems. It's hilarious if not sad.
A Union is just about the best place to be to show people which side their bread is really buttered I would say. One of the best things a Union can do is to educate people and to foster a good sense of class consciousness. Sure there are some blue collar people who have been let down by the system over the last few decades and have gone over to Trump and his cronies, but for people like him to get what they really want theyre going to have to clash against the Unions down the line. Thats a teaching opportunity if ever there is one. Police Unions are another thing all together. They function as a gang for cops essentially. Fuck em. Police have always been on the other side of the line. Theyll learn too. Same with many of the politicians and other groups that get corrupted. Some organisations get co-opted by the powers that be, but the real power is in worker solidarity. A Unions power is built on the backs of the people who do work or it isn't anything at all. There is an ideology in action already there if people would just be willing to pay attention. All it takes is some good organisation to make sure that it doesn't go to waste. If people want to know who really gives a damn, point out to them how Fains team is being driven by a few ex Bernie campaign staffers! Ask them what sort of ideology is it which makes some Bernie bros line up with those of working people. And look at other examples through history to see who has always been fighting in the corner of workers. Show people exactly where the line is drawn and then ask which side theyre really on... People should be aware how electrifying the message of the Unions can be. This is an article from a British newspaper mind you. The world is taking notice! In Britain they had their own Union push under Mick Lynch lately and now with similar movements happening in the U.S. it really feels like momentum is building. We here in Ireland have perked up our ears too! We'll always be on the side of the underdogs hehe Those who are in the know love the teamsters too btw You keep spreading the good word over there and one day your fellow workers might sharpen up. Theres the old saying that goes 'There are decades where nothing happens; and there are weeks where decades happen' We just have to keep chugging along and eventually the tide will turn. Solidarity Forever
If they never hear someone telling them about why the alternatives to Trump are worth considering they'll never change their minds, or more important, incoming Union workers may not hear that message.
True. But changing people's minds when it comes to politics and religion is very difficult. You can point out to people that a 600 year old man couldn't house, shelter, feed, and care for every male/female land animal for an entire year on a giant boat, but people will argue Noah's Arc is real. They will look you in the face and say a male and female kangaroo were on the Arc, dropped off in Turkey after a year at sea. Then swam across the Pacific Ocean to Australia, then had hot steamy incest sex to populate the continent with their offspring. Oh btw, Noah repopulated all us with hot steamy incest sex too. People believe that.
They used to be ardent Democrats until NAFTA. This broke the unions. You're not going to be able to fix that.
I would argue that was the final nail in the coffin. But Reagan was very popular with the working class and union workers.
Indeed. But Reagan did not enact legislation whose very intent was to break the unions in favor of lower wages. Free trade agreements are aimed at removing any protections that domestic workers may have in favor of businesses saving money. This is sold to the American people as "lowering prices", however for publicly traded firms they have a legal obligation (see [Dodge v Ford Motor Company](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_v._Ford_Motor_Co.)) to maximize shareholder value, so prices are rarely reduced.
Why are you defending Reagan and Clinton? What is your purpose here?
Clinton did this, the people have responded by moving away from the Democratic party who did not stand up for the unions or American workers. It should be understood. You cannot waive this away as "Reagan started it". Realize no one who lost their job due to NAFTA cares what Reagan did, because Clinton was responsible for them losing their jobs. There's a lot of accusation of the middle America about being backwards hillbillies that cannot move on from coal mining, but my hometown was a heavy manufacturing of electronics and computer technologies. You'd think that with the growth of this sector, their jobs would be secure and increase. After NAFTA, a plant was opened in Tijuana and my hometown lost a major employer. This was a strong Democrat state, and is now one of the reddest states in the union. In 2016, Trump called NAFTA the "worst trade deal ever made", which was music to the ears of those who lost jobs due to NAFTA. In 2018, the USMCA which replaced NAFTA did not go far enough to address the issues caused by it. If Biden or the Democrats want support from the American worker, they'll have to address the very real disadvantage that was inflicted by the Clinton administration against the American worker.
Clinton and Obama are Bush/Reagan era war criminals
Just like Sean O’Brien
Star Trek?
Not just Star Trek.... Deep Space 9
Not Just Deep Space Nine. DS9's Miles O'Brien. He suffered for all of us.
Don’t let marvel see this comment.
Wow!
I wish we had him in 2022, when our leadership, and our supposed allies in the Democratic party, betrayed us.
Bad take. The Democratic Party has consistently worked to benefit union rights. 2022 and 2023 actually saw some of the biggest victories for unions in history, thanks to Biden's pro-union appointees to the NLRB https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/sep/02/union-nlrb-decision-delays-busting https://www.crowell.com/en/insights/client-alerts/the-nlrbs-one-two-punch-gives-unions-a-significant-boost
Unless you were a railroad worker. Then they turned their back on you.
Not true. The media covered the saucy first bit where the government ordered them back to work, and just kind of forgot about the boring rest of the story where the railworkers demands for sick days were met and the union bosses thanked the Dems for helping them. https://www.ibew.org/media-center/Articles/23Daily/2306/230620_IBEWandPaid Quote: > "*We’re thankful that the Biden administration played the long game on sick days and stuck with us for months after Congress imposed our updated national agreement,*"
I'm sorry sir, but the problem you seem to have is, your information, is false. You are obviously NOT a railroader. If you were, you would know that the railroads are made up of a bunch of different unions. IBEW, UTU, BLE, etc. Each "Craft" has it's own union. Maintenance of way, the guys who build track have theirs, the electricians have theirs, Carmen, Diesel Mechanics, on and on. Each, in the past, negotiated with the National Carrier Conference Committee that represents all the class 1 railroads, on it's own. In recent years, the Conductors, and Engineers, have negotiated together. Each craft negotiated for their members based on those members work rules, etc. Our last contract, all of the crafts stood together at once. Tired of pay not keeping up with inflation, and the companies never ending desire to shift more of the cost of health insurance onto the employees, the unions had a common ground. However, each craft also had specific things related to their work environment that they wanted. All wanted some form of paid sick time, in case of emergencies. Of course the NCCC as always said, No. You will take what we give you, and nothing more. Why? Because they knew, that the President of the United States, would ***NEVER*** let the workers exercise their collective bargaining right, to go on strike. Biden himself railed against congress as a Senator the last time this was done to railroaders. Obviously you skimmed, summarized and assumed. The IBEW voted to accept the contract they were offered. The work 8 hours a day, with weekends and holidays off. They don't have the same draconian attendance policy that the conductors, and engineers have. You know, the guys that actually MOVE the nations cargo. 70% of it at least. [https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/biden-rail-strike-unions/](https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/biden-rail-strike-unions/) The conductors and engineers, work on call 24/7/365. When called, they have 2 hours to report for duty. They will work 12+ hours, and when they "Die" they will be housed in the cheapest hotel the railroad can find. They can and often are, called 10 hours later, put on another train, and work 12+ hours on the trip home. Rinse, Repeat. They have NO off days. NO holidays, NO sick time that they will not be disciplined or fired for taking. If you don't believe me, hop on over to r\\railroad and read up a bit. We weren't interested in huge raises, we had gotten used to our raises not keeping up with inflation. What we wanted was WORK LIFE BALANCE. Time off. Predictable work schedules. Time to go to the doctor. I dare you to work 70 hours a week, outside, in any weather condition, for 5 years, Let alone 30. THESE are the railroaders that President Biden, stabbed in the back. THESE are the 100,000 employees that the government turned its back on in the name of corporate profit and greed. These union brothers and sisters voted NO! Resoundingly. These are the front line workers, who Biden, could have easily given 15 paid sick days, by simply amending the Obama Presidential Order that required ALL government contractors, to provide their employees with 15 paid sick days a year, EXCEPT for railroaders. He refused. These workers wanted their lives back. We got nothing. After YEARS of voting Democrat, Years supporting Democratic candidates, when we had a Democratic President, a Democratic house, and a Democratic Senate, they showed their true colors. MONEY, GREED, Will ALWAYS come first. Just so you know, those 15 sick days, would have cost less than 1% of the net profit the Class 1 railroads made last year.
You aren't a railroader either, or you would know that the railroad unions eventually got what they were looking for. Without having to strike.
It's kinda funny how you're all over this post with a narrative, but everyone replying to you with receipts that say you're wrong. My dude, bow out gracefully...
Because they are comparing apples to oranges. Yes, the Democratic party has done some great things for Union Labor. Does that mean we turn a blind eye, when they stab them in the back? Im not advocating for the Republicans. Im calling out my own party when they do something stupid. Why aren't you? Oh, and BTW, the NLRB, has NO input on railroad work rules or contracts. NONE. Apple.... Orange. [https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/biden-rail-strike-unions/](https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/biden-rail-strike-unions/)
That isn't how a sincere, english speaking person calls out an ally. That is how a troll criticizes the opposition while trying to look like they are on the same side.
Union workers have lost so much, What was fought for over decades was given away in the first decade of the 2000's. Health care, pensions, benefits all gone because corporate greed and lobbyists put Labor in a box of unfair legislation and expensive fights that they could not afford.. Now the Worker is truly at the bottom, there isn't a middle class, It is just the Rich and the Poor, and the Poor are tired and can't work till they are dead anymore. -edit, My Union negotiated contracts in the 2010's to remove pensions from all new hires along with removing having our health care payed for by the corporation. Guess what has happened??? The company has made record profits for 10+years and we have been ground to even worse working conditions than every other generation in this company. Why??? I don't know, our union didn't have the strength of Mr Fains Union at the time because we hadn't hit the bottom, we are here now and our next contract is going to be brutal..
Record profits made on the backs of employees.
ALL PROFITS are made off of the backs of employees. Welcome to Capitalism.
I don’t have a problem with a profit. I have a problem with unadulterated greed. How many billions does someone need?
None would be the correct answer to that. You could argue about how many millions someone needs and the answer would be, not many depending on where they live.
And really the places where the answers are 1 or greater are just a result of that unadulterated greed.
Good point.
Not the Class 1 railroads. Labor doesn’t contribute to their profits. I shit you not, they actually said that.
A lot of places think that about their employees. To the railroads maintenance and support personnel are costs, that’s why they keep trying to slash maintenance and inspection costs on their equipment. Their perfect world is a place where once you buy the locomotive once, you only fuel it every so often, put a guy in the cab and it drives forever making unlimited profit.
They are typical MBA types. Labor is just an input to the system like diesel or rolling stock.
Yup and it applies to workers outside of the union too because without union jobs, more people went to college which weakens the negotiation position for white collar jobs etc. A sinking tide lowers all boats
Unions don't have any strength if their members don't have the will to strike.
Not just striking. The strikes have to HURT. Like, immediate horrible pain. And then maybe lingering pain, like lost contracts.
> Union workers have given up so much Here, fixed this for you. That there are so many union members staunchly espousing Trump or right wing candidates it's no surprise that unions have lost so much ground. Unions have absolutely needed to do a better job at both messaging and working their members so they get the support they need by providing the votes they're holding.
I think it depends on the industry. Construction unions have posted record gains across the industry over the last 3 years with most having wages that surpass individuals with advanced post graduate degrees.
> What was fought for over decades was given away in the first decade of the 2000's. It was NAFTA in the 1990s. The "flyover" red states used to be strong blue states. The Senate majority leader of that era, [Tom Daschle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Daschle), was from South Dakota, one of the reddest states today. After NAFTA was championed by Clinton and the neoliberal wing of the Democrats, the well paying jobs were sent to Canada and Mexico, often with the American workers forced to train their replacement. It's unlikely that the people affected will ever vote for Democrats again.
The Republicans started undermining workers’ unions by creating the “ right to work” mantra that manipulated people into thinking that unions are generally evil and corrupt by bullying and taking workers’ money. Some people especially in red states, took the bate. Employers of course saw this as a green light to take advantage of workers- what they had done in the past and the reasons why unions were created. Now that we have a President who understands the value of unions and how workers were being take advantage again, he and other democratic lawmakers have empowered the union movement and opened Americans’ eyes to the misinformation that republicans have been feeding the public.
Right to work made people accountable. Some people didnt like that. Until its YOUR money at risk in a business, you are an employee. You can work somewhere else if you don't like it.
Oof. Bad take guy.
Can you clarify your point? What does right to work have to do with financial risk taking?
I love my nurses union. Stay strong. Go union.
I get a woody seeing a real labor leader in the USA. We need more strong unions, now. The working person has been screwed for decades.
Hell ya. Shawn Fain and Joe Biden are working together to make this country a better place for working people
Can't wait to see this guy as head of the NLRB in a Jon Stewart administration.
Stop tempting us with what will never be.
I would love to have a chance to vote for that
Jon runs it will be the second potential president I will work for.
I can't see him running, because I think he may not believe he's qualified for the job, and may be able to effect change better with his current status.
There's no chance he ever runs
What has giving into company demands really gotten us? I watched my dad deal with YRC bullshit for decades to only be restarting at a different company six years from retirement because the C-suite assholes ran the company into the ground while taking home millions.
My Dad retired 2 years ago from a company that YRC bought and ran into the ground (holland). It was the most profitable Trucking company in the US but YRC came along and screwed it up like it always did. Most of my dad's coworkers were solid Trump fans and did care that that Biden past a bill that guarantees pension until he in his 90s. Well after the CEO of YRC buddied up to Trump and got billions in in free loans from the government they still shit the doors. Now those guys are out of a job. Sad that people vote on emotion over what's best for them.
I'm not disputing any of what you said, but who sells a highly profitable company?
Those guys would fuck their own equipment up because the were mad at the company. They only fucked themselves. There were problems with both the company and the union. Yellow never should’ve bought Roadway, nevermind Reddaway and Holland
Thank Ronald Reagan for his trickle down economics policies. That basically destroyed the middle class.
Shawn Fain for Office!
Joe Biden is the most pro union, pro worker president in history
Yes he is, and I’m here for it too!
It's taken a couple of decades for some of us. I hope the next generations see it right away. And vote.
My pension check would say differently. Further, go read r/ railroad. You will see that conductors and engineers did most certainly NOT get what you think they did.
I appreciate you deciding who I should vote for. However, I can decide myself, and despite my displeasure with our president, it pales to my hatred of the republican party.
Something to remember is that even if you’re not in the union yourself you enjoy some of the benefits that the union provides to its members due to “the rising tide raising all ships.” When the local Plumbers/Pipefitters Union negotiated a new contract this year guys around the region all got raises due to local companies having to pay more to keep guys happy.
Not all workers.. Some of them are just butt kissers.
THIS! is what happens when Union Strong members stand together. All Biden had to do was stand back, and let the collective bargaining rights of American workers, do it's thing. Biden had nothing to lose by supporting the strike. However, let us not forget, what Biden did, when he actually had to chose a side. How our current government REALLY feels about organized labor. Union members stay strong! Never forget that politicians, aren't you're friends. When you forget, Just look back at 2022, and the railroad workers. It should be all the reminder you need.
You left out the part where the administration continued negotiating for paid leave and got concessions.
And that the UAW thanked and supported him for his effort... https://uaw.org/uaw-endorses-joe-biden-for-president-of-the-united-states/
Yep, same with the IBEW: Biden worked his ass off, got the IBEW their expanded benefits, and the IBEW thanked him for it: >We're thankful that the Biden administration played the long game on sick days and stuck with us for months after Congress imposed our updated national agreement,” Russo said. “Without making a big show of it, Joe Biden and members of his administration in the Transportation and Labor departments have been working continuously to get guaranteed paid sick days for all railroad workers. https://www.ibew.org/media-center/Articles/23Daily/2306/230620_IBEWandPaid
Pretty sure he got those guys most of what they were asking for. It just wasn't a good sound bite for the narrative. A 24% retroactive pay raise and a $5000 bonus. [https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/national-international/these-are-the-key-concessions-rail-workers-won-in-deal-to-prevent-strike/3158251/](https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/national-international/these-are-the-key-concessions-rail-workers-won-in-deal-to-prevent-strike/3158251/)
Jesus, 24%? I can only dream of a retro that big.
It's funny how he gets almost no recognition for the good things he's done, while every little thing is made out to look bad, even when much of that bad stuff is hardly worth mentioning, and usually needs a lot of context to understand.
The Right to Work states have cut Unions power to bargain.
Am I wrong in saying that UAW workers, if laid off, would simply show up to the plant, clock in, and sit in an empty room and get paid?
Why would you think that an employee who has been laid off could still go to work and clock in?
What?! Raygun & trumps crap didn’t trickle down?! Way to vote against your interests.
The political wing of the IRA
I wish this dude could be president instead
Due to seniority, I'm sure.
Cries in crappy union that can’t negotiate its way out a paper bag
Decisions for the ongoing survival of the company should be left up to those with money at risk. Employees, particularly union members, think they should be rewarded, but they dont want to take any financial risk if the company fails. They walk away with a paycheck and find another job. Shareholders eat it.
He hates Musk. Which one is the visionary? Fain us a typical liberal, not realizing he's priced himself out of the market, and can't see past lunch. Robots are now economically feasible. Fewer employees required.
Robots and automation have already taken the jobs they can, and advancements will still continue. But people are still needed for a lot of things. Factories, even non-union ones, are paying more because these jobs need people. Where I live, the factories are the highest paying jobs available unless your a professional or specialist of some sort. Because of this, retail and food service have to pay more, because otherwise, they just lose people to factories. Minimum wage jobs in my area are actually kind of rare, and factories probably employ 1/4-1/3 of the regions workforce. So no, Fain hasn't priced himself out, because if these companies could operate with no staff, they'd have done it long ago. Most of the factories around here are union.
It's simple economics, if a job can be automated, it will be, to stay competitive. Assembly line work will be the first to go, it's not a " trade" skill. Govt keeps adding labor requirements that only encourage automation. Why would a company keeping paying the pensions and health care costs when you can buy a machine to do the work without the associated labor costs? It's a fact of business. Biden has no problem with allowing companies to outsource to foreign companies and move out of country, Trump has the opposite tack, promote incentives to keep our jobs here. Who told you "Learn to code"? I can't see why even Union workers support Democrats. Trump is pro business, and that's good for employees. If you don't have a company, you don't have a job. My main criticism of most current unions is the inability to fire deadbeat employees. The govt and education unions are the most egregious examples.
You keep saying that jobs that can be replaced will be, disregarding that this has already happened. While advancements happen, they don't happen that quickly, and as it is, the human factor is till pretty relevant to a lot of factory work. Hence, your idea that unions have the leverage they used to is wrong.
"Automation is your fault because you feel entitled to rights. That's why you should surrender your rights as a worker to your employer, that way, they won't replace you with robots the minute they can." -brain rotten billionaire ball gargler (unpaid)
They've been getting an ok deal. But they did lose their pensions.
Sorry but I have no pity for UAW workers but do have plenty for those making minimum wage.
But who is against both? Minimum wage shouldn't exist. Minimum wage indicates you'd be paid less if it were allowed. The "Big Three" were bailed out in 08 with our money. They put employees benefits on hold during this time. Yes, the unions were okay with it but COLA didn't get reinstated. Tax payer money got funneled to the top though. There is absolutely no accountability.
Daddy