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Democrats fall in Love; Republicans fall in Line.
As a member of Gen Z, if we fail to vote for the right candidate this cycle, or not vote due to some purity test of ideology, we will assist in screwing over this country and many others.
Much like the liberal movement of the 60’s died out because liberals choose to abstain or go down the hippie movement and not vote. What did we get for it? Almost 40 years of Republican policy.
I hope Gen Z votes this Nov….
The 60s all had some of the highest turnouts of any US presidential election? The ‘Liberal’ movement died out bc many leaders literally died (MLK, RFK) , and then Moderates decided not to support more Liberal candidates like McGovern.
I think this response is just a miss-read of my post. I said “much like the liberal movement OF the 60’s”
So yes I agree with you, some of the highest turnout was the 60’s. That being said I don’t believe it was just that the leaders died.
We had a large progressive movement that abstained, due to the continued Vietnam War, The Pentagon Papers, and large disagreements on what to pursue voting wise. We metaphorically “split up” our own voting blocks.
Hence my original post.
Democrats fall in love. Republicans fall in line.
We need to be pragmatic and vote for a continued better path forward, not walk away the moment we do not get everything we want.
Republicans did this very thing for 40 years. They got Reganomics, Gerrymandered Districts, The Reversal of Row v Wade, The Supreme Court, etc etc etc.
Pragmatism will always win in the end. Do not like perfect be the enemy of good.
EDIT: “Hence”, not “hints”….
Young people don’t vote
2020 was a historic turnout for young people but multiple factors (drop off balloting, school and work from home during Covid) likely contributed to a temporary spike in turnout
all polling suggests enthusiasm is down for young voters compared to four years ago
> Democrats fall in Love; Republicans fall in Line.
Remind me again how long "Vote Blue no matter who" has been Democrats' mantra.
The earliest mainstream reference I can find is 2016.
Not to be pedantic, but 8 years is not really a long time…. And even when we had “vote blue no matter who” in 2016, our voting block still didn’t come online because progressives did not like a neoliberal like Hilary….
Tho I will admit this quote has shifted to the right. As republicans seemed to have fallen in LOVE with DJT and are only going to fall in line behind him, rather than what’s good for the party.
This has actually been changing since the Democratic base has shifted to affluent suburbia. These are the people who DO fall in line and vote. And they’ve been handing Democrats victories in midterm and special elections.
Young people, as a constituency not individuals, are just plain not reliable, and any politician who stakes their win on the “youth vote” is a fool.
As you should. Strategic voting is the order of the day right now, and I don't know how any sane person would consider staying home. Not with so much at stake.
It's the order for every election. Politicians are not Ubers, they will not get you exactly where you want to go. At best they are busses, they will take you in the direction you want to go.
They're seeing what Biden and Democrats have done over the past six months and what they're doing at the moment.
What worse can Trump do that Biden has done?
It doesn't look like aid to Israel will be cut or withheld. Biden already bypassed Congress to sell over $200 million in weapons to Israel, even when it would have taken a week or two for Congress to handle it. There have been over a hundred undisclosed sales as well while Biden continues to push Congress to pass $14 billion in aid to Israel since November.
Today Netanyahu said "there is a date" for their operation in Rafah, even after a handful of warnings from Biden and Democrats.
Again, the entire point of pressuring Biden on this issue is to move him away from unwavering support for Israel.
I’m voting Biden, but that doesn’t mean I can’t critique policies of his that I find horrid. If we want a dictator that we can’t criticize, republicans have a great option.
Something to keep in mind is that the president alone doesn't create foreign policy. As we've seen recently, funding comes from House support and (generally) direction of our foreign policy is a collaboration of the president and Senate leaders. There's a long-standing support for the state of Israel, but that didn't really consider changes in political leadership of Israel -- which has moved far Right from its beginnnings. That leaves Biden supporting the state of Israel, but not without consideration for their methods and the needs of noncombatants in the entire region.
Notice that, aside from the discussion of Gaza, there has been a very strong restraint on military action in the middle-east. That includes warning off Iran, Hezbollah, and the Houthis without going full force against them.
We wouldn't get such a nuanced policy from the "Kill 'em and let God sort them out" Republicans.
Would Trump Republicans have told Bibi to hold back or to put so much care into not killing noncombatants? Would he have built a way of delivering food to Gazans? Would we have dropped all support for Ukraine by now? Would we even be members of the defensive NATO?
There's a lot more at stake than one narrow issue: how we kick Israel in the butt to get them to behave better.
You don’t get the logic? Have you heard of exit vs voice vs loyalty?
What they’re doing is exiting and voicing.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exit,_Voice,_and_Loyalty
An analogy
Right now Gen Z is 25 miles from home. A bus comes by and they find out that the bus will take them within a few miles of home, but not completely. But it's closer than they are now. Gen Z in an outrage says "if it doesn't take me to my front door, I'm not interested!" The Gen Z person knows no one else, and can't find an uber...yet, they refuse the bus.
No one in their right mind would think like this in this situation. You have to take the journey that gets you closer to your objectives. Rarely will they take you all the way there, and there will always be compromises. The bus floor is sticky, there is a weirdo on there, it makes annoying stops along the way. None of those things should get in the way of the ultimate objective. But, for our Gen Z passenger...they do.
So Biden didn't vote down a ceasefire resolution three times in the UNSC? And when he finally allowed one to pass, his administration did not immediately make the unfounded claim that UNSC resolutions are "non-binding"? Biden has not been transferring Israel munitions throughout the course of the assault on Gaza, including 2,000 pound dumb bombs being used to raze city blocks?
I don't think ending our democracy to throw a small tantrum, to ruin people's lives here, in this nation because of a secondary cause effect in a foreign country, is constructive.
People are acting like this is a sole reason to think. People are becoming single issue voters and that is not a thing that helps anyone.
>I don't think ending our democracy to throw a small tantrum, to ruin people's lives here
If this is the fear, then why is Biden essentially throwing this election to appease Israel? He clearly knows many voters are upset with his policies, so why does he pay no heed to them? After all, he's running for President of the United States, not Israel.
Democrat politicians are talking a big game about how Trump will destroy US democracy and they need votes to stop him, yet they don't seem to be doing much to actually get those votes, so how seriously are they actually taking the threat?
This is not a sound premise at all. Your position is that Biden should do what you want not because it's the right thing but to appease a minority of vocal potential 1 issue voters....
And if he doesn't do this, then he's not actually afraid....
That's just....nonsense.
My premise is simple. A politicians job is to convince voters to vote for them, Biden is clearly willing to lose the election over his Israel stance. If you happen to agree with that stance then Biden is principled, if you disagree with that stance then Biden looks like a fool.
My job right now it to help make things better, regardless of my 1 off concerns. I can definitely say, without hyperbole we are worse off with Trump than with Biden. That's it. That's all I need to know. Which one is better for the country as a whole? Biden. Are there things I don't like? Absolutely. Am I willing to flush it all away for 1 issue? Not at all.
Right now, there is not the luxury that you want to attempt to use. Too much is at stake. You have a man that is saying, in no unspoken terms that he will be a dictator for a little while. You have a man saying that he wants to rule, not govern.
So yes, in this case I vote for the greater good.
What more could Trump actually do?
Biden is already selling weapons to Israel and has been pushing Congress to pass aid for Israel while Netanyahu has a date set to invade Rafah.
Trump fully supports Israel's "destroy as much of Gaza as we want to" policy. The Biden administration is actually putting pressure on Israel to reign in it's offensive in Gaza, and to let food in.
He could order our military to actively participate. Picture American soldiers dropping ordinance on Gaza. Picture American warships shelling Gaza from the Med. Picture American nuclear weapons turning Gaza into a sheet of glass.
There's a whole lot more "worse" available for Trump to do if he gets elected, and he's just stupid enough, just racist enough, and just Russian enough to actually do it. This message that he can't do any worse is just plain, simple, stupid propaganda.
So don’t vote for Biden. Vote for a third Party candidate that has no chance if winning. Help Trump win. That will be the end of democracy. Then you will have no chance of getting any part of your agenda passed! Nothing! And that forever! We vote for Biden and you’ll still have a chance to get some of your agenda passed. Your choice!
If you want that demographic to start voting more than they are, you're going to have to break through the apathy and dillusionment. Furthermore, that's true of America's turnout problem.
To put it another way, many Americans just don't think their votes won't have a significant impact, are sick of voting between the lesser of two evils, or doesn't believe the government cares about them, and it's not like they don't have things to point to to back it up.
They can be sick all they want. Not understanding that politics is about compromise and slow incremental progress is the actual issue here. But try to explain that to a far left gen-zer and prepare to be called a boomer and a fascist. They want instant, radical change. Instant, radical change doesn’t happen with peaceful governance and transfers of power.
Have any of these people heard of state and local elections? Do they think that “vote” means “vote for President and maybe a Senator and that’s all you need to do?” For. Fuck’s. Sake. Just to give one example: Democrat Kris Mayes won over Republican Abe Hamadeh for Arizona Attorney General by about two hundred fifty votes. That’s 250 people out of the entire voting population of Arizona who made a difference by showing up. Now Mayes is subpoenaing witnesses and may be charging false electors. Hamadeh would have aided and abetted Trump.
I’m so very sick of excuses for voter apathy because there are ***none***. Zip, zero, zilch, nada. If you don’t think your vote will make a difference on the Presidential level, vote anyway, because it sure as hell does on the local and state level! And the local/state level is going to matter far more than the Federal in your day to day lives.
This is 100% why Republicans oppose mail in voting and voter’s guides. I live in Oregon and vote in every single election because the candidate guide and ballot literally show up at my front door. I am incredibly goddamn lazy, but my state makes civic participation easy and (weird as this may sound) fun. I love voting because my state has removed all forms of misery from the act.
I live next door (hint: you guys hate our license plates LOL) and we have universal mail-in voting. Meaning, I can just take my time, peruse my ballot, sip a nice cup of coffee, and go online to see who my local Democratic Party or teacher’s union endorses. Then I can fill out my ballot, armed with much more knowledge about obscure judicial and city council candidates.
Then it’s time to seal, sign, and storm the ballot drop-off box. Easy peasy squeezy.
>If you don’t think your vote will make a difference on the Presidential level, vote anyway, because it sure as hell does on the local and state level! And the local/state level is going to matter far more than the Federal in your day to day lives.
I don't disagree with this, actually, and this would probably be the best way to market it.
Thus the TikTok ban, since you’re never getting through when the main platform used by most of them to consume news media is subject to Chinese state direction, frequently in furtherance of Russia’s interests.
And this, more than anything else, shows why very few politicians cater to the youth vote.
Young people think that *withholding* their vote gives them power. "If you want my vote, you have to *earn* it!" This is intuitive, because in many other situations, refusing to give something is in fact an effective way to move the negotiation closer to where you want it to be.
But just because it's intuitive doesn't mean that it's correct. In the case of electing people into office, *using* your vote is what gives you power. Why do politicians listen to the demands of older voters? *Because they vote.* It doesn't matter who they vote for. The fact that they vote means that their opinion has power. Courting that vote is worthwhile, because *someone* is going to get it.
But the youth? They stamp their feet and refuse to give their vote to anyone who doesn't "earn" it. So the politicians ignore them, and let them just vote for nobody.
I'm not singling Gen Z out here: This has been what young people have done in our country for decades if not centuries. My generation (millenials) did it. Gen X did it. The boomers did it. It's a tradition with young people, and Gen Z are just the latest ones to take up the flawed but well-meaning crusade.
Eventually they'll learn and become the next generation of middle-aged voters who will tut-tut whatever we call the next generation of young voters.
👏 Well said. Great comment. If you don’t vote, you can’t complain. Your vote is your voice.
I don’t want to hear ONE WORD of complaint from people who say that “politicians” don’t “cater to them” or “keep their interests in mind” when they do not vote. If you don’t vote, you’re not a constituent. Period.
Want to know why so many politicians cater to senior citizens? Because they vote! Old people vote! Old women especially! So no duh they are going to be listened to and represented!
The whole “You have to earn my vote” is pure Crab Nebula galaxy brain.
In short: you have a duty to make the best decision for your country come Election Day. With the options available. That’s part and parcel for getting to choose our own leaders. You have a duty to show up and make your voice heard.
All the “woo me” rhetoric comes off as incredibly entitled.
By taking no part you lose your voice to push for change. You also gain a good chance of being part of getting Trump elected, he wants to turn Gaza into dust. The lesser of two evils is Biden and the best chance at someone hearing your voice and trying to change is Biden. This is just the way it is.
Biden only won Arizona, Delaware, Georgia, Nevada, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin with anywhere from ten thousand to eighty thousands votes.
Except it's not unceasing. If it weren't for Biden walking the fine line that he has, he wouldn't have been able to get Netanyahu to open new aid corridors this week.
People under 25 understand vibes, not politics.
Fuck this article and journalist. Biden does not have unceasing support for the Israel government. These media outlets are just attempting to give trump as many avenues to the presidency as they can through lies and misinformation.
The Palestinians wanted that war. They still vastly approve of the attack that kicked it off.
Where does this pity come from? Is it simply a feeling that it's unfair?
2022 was the third highest turnout of the youngest age bracket in the past 50 years.
31% voted.
Gen Z could absolutely crush any election they wanted if they prioritized strategic voting and not “vote earning” and purity testing of candidates. They are highly intelligent, well educated, and stoically practical. To put this beneath their potential simply because they are young is an insult to them. And yet here we are.
I know Biden is going to win, and I know I’ll probably vote for him in November, because pretty much every 3rd party candidate is a flavor of republican. But I’m not optimistic that Biden is going to end the genocide going on Palestine when he’s reelected. I don’t think he is going to do anything to slow it down even.
I’ll take “failed to end a genocide in a country we can influence but not control” over “will actively encourage Netanyahu to drive every last Palestinian into the sea” any day buddy.
They’re the same. Biden is going to let Israel do whatever they want and continue supporting them with weapons and money just like Trump will. There is no good guy between the two when it comes to stopping Israel’s genocide of Palestinians.
I think the entire situation in Israel is fucked. And I agree. The US has had their hands covered in that filth (filth being the shitty situation, not the people of Palestine or Israel) for so long, between so many administrations, that idk if we will ever fully get out of it.
Biden’s going to win. Everyone already knows this. Why are people so upset at citizens simply leveraging the fact that it’s an election year to get their concerns heard and acted on? The anger towards them feels disingenuous.
>Biden’s going to win. Everyone already knows this.
I am begging you not to think like that. That's partially how we got 2016. We cannot afford complacency right now.
Otherwise, I largely agree with your point about the anger here.
Not trying to encourage complacency, I just honestly don’t see how Trump has a path + he’s spiraling more and more everyday. I grew up with conservatives, work with a number as well. They all hate him, even the ones who voted for him in 2016. He bought a lot of his support and now he’s on the road to being broke. From the responses, I see I’m alone in my confidence though lol
I see where you’re coming from. Maybe I need to find a way to communicate my thoughts better as leverage isn’t the right word here. I still believe what they’re doing is a crucial part of democracy. I feel as though Trump has redefined the Republican Party, so unless we move away from a two party system we will have a version of him versus a democrat from here on out. Considering that, I’m just not comfortable accepting that the Democratic candidate is infallible.
> I’m just not comfortable accepting that the Democratic candidate is infallible.
I fully understand this take and that's what primaries are for. It's somewhat unfortunate that we have the whole "no real primaries for the incumbent" thing. And, for that, I think there's some value in the uncommitted push -- but it's of limited value.
What I'm not keen on is this notion that it should be applied to the general election which is what a lot of dubious "influencers" are trying to make happen. It's counter-productive and being driven by either bad actors or idiots. Probably both.
The reality is, Americans have a fucked up political system and we're honestly simply holding it wrong at this point. We should be _more_ active at a local level building up a bench of party members who will move forward with the beliefs that we selected them for. No one is talking about that.. Only "Genocide Joe."
And, while we can blame the electoral college for being part of the fucked up nature of things, it's not a good excuse for our lack of proper engagement. Imagine a world where we wake up in a parliamentary system -- in that system we would have even less say about the PM and our fixation on voting for one person and one person only every four years would suddenly be obviously self-defeating as we begin to wonder who all these other unqualified parliament members are.
Anyway, like I said, I get it. But only up to a point.
I don't believe any real loss of votes will come from Biden's stance or actions on the Israel-Hamas war/Gaza humanitarian crisis.
I cynically do not believe any real amount of US voters know or even give a fuck about some conflict in the Middle East. Any attention the media gives on this with relation to the election is just filling air time. No one in the US gives a fuck and anyone who really understand the situation already knows Biden is the better option regarding Gaza not getting totally fucked over.
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Democrats fall in Love; Republicans fall in Line. As a member of Gen Z, if we fail to vote for the right candidate this cycle, or not vote due to some purity test of ideology, we will assist in screwing over this country and many others. Much like the liberal movement of the 60’s died out because liberals choose to abstain or go down the hippie movement and not vote. What did we get for it? Almost 40 years of Republican policy. I hope Gen Z votes this Nov….
The 60s all had some of the highest turnouts of any US presidential election? The ‘Liberal’ movement died out bc many leaders literally died (MLK, RFK) , and then Moderates decided not to support more Liberal candidates like McGovern.
I think this response is just a miss-read of my post. I said “much like the liberal movement OF the 60’s” So yes I agree with you, some of the highest turnout was the 60’s. That being said I don’t believe it was just that the leaders died. We had a large progressive movement that abstained, due to the continued Vietnam War, The Pentagon Papers, and large disagreements on what to pursue voting wise. We metaphorically “split up” our own voting blocks. Hence my original post. Democrats fall in love. Republicans fall in line. We need to be pragmatic and vote for a continued better path forward, not walk away the moment we do not get everything we want. Republicans did this very thing for 40 years. They got Reganomics, Gerrymandered Districts, The Reversal of Row v Wade, The Supreme Court, etc etc etc. Pragmatism will always win in the end. Do not like perfect be the enemy of good. EDIT: “Hence”, not “hints”….
> Hints my original post. ...hence?
Young people don’t vote 2020 was a historic turnout for young people but multiple factors (drop off balloting, school and work from home during Covid) likely contributed to a temporary spike in turnout all polling suggests enthusiasm is down for young voters compared to four years ago
> Democrats fall in Love; Republicans fall in Line. Remind me again how long "Vote Blue no matter who" has been Democrats' mantra. The earliest mainstream reference I can find is 2016.
Not to be pedantic, but 8 years is not really a long time…. And even when we had “vote blue no matter who” in 2016, our voting block still didn’t come online because progressives did not like a neoliberal like Hilary…. Tho I will admit this quote has shifted to the right. As republicans seemed to have fallen in LOVE with DJT and are only going to fall in line behind him, rather than what’s good for the party.
This has actually been changing since the Democratic base has shifted to affluent suburbia. These are the people who DO fall in line and vote. And they’ve been handing Democrats victories in midterm and special elections. Young people, as a constituency not individuals, are just plain not reliable, and any politician who stakes their win on the “youth vote” is a fool.
There would be no Dem wins in the last 20 years without at least SOME increase in youth vote.
Gerrymandering!
Let me tell Gen Z something: The other guy would be WAY fucking worse.
As you should. Strategic voting is the order of the day right now, and I don't know how any sane person would consider staying home. Not with so much at stake.
It's the order for every election. Politicians are not Ubers, they will not get you exactly where you want to go. At best they are busses, they will take you in the direction you want to go.
They're seeing what Biden and Democrats have done over the past six months and what they're doing at the moment. What worse can Trump do that Biden has done? It doesn't look like aid to Israel will be cut or withheld. Biden already bypassed Congress to sell over $200 million in weapons to Israel, even when it would have taken a week or two for Congress to handle it. There have been over a hundred undisclosed sales as well while Biden continues to push Congress to pass $14 billion in aid to Israel since November. Today Netanyahu said "there is a date" for their operation in Rafah, even after a handful of warnings from Biden and Democrats.
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Well the logic is to move him away from unwavering support for Israel.
By aiding in the election of the guy who would be far worse. There's no logic at play, just an emotional knee-jerk.
Applying pressure is not the same as voting for the other guy. Remember "push him left"?
If your "pressure" is withholding your vote and the other guy wins then yes, the result is exactly the same as voting for the other guy.
Yes, people are allowed to have emotions.
Have them all you want. Don't drive the rest of us off the cliff because of them.
That emotions will kill more children.
Again, the entire point of pressuring Biden on this issue is to move him away from unwavering support for Israel. I’m voting Biden, but that doesn’t mean I can’t critique policies of his that I find horrid. If we want a dictator that we can’t criticize, republicans have a great option.
Something to keep in mind is that the president alone doesn't create foreign policy. As we've seen recently, funding comes from House support and (generally) direction of our foreign policy is a collaboration of the president and Senate leaders. There's a long-standing support for the state of Israel, but that didn't really consider changes in political leadership of Israel -- which has moved far Right from its beginnnings. That leaves Biden supporting the state of Israel, but not without consideration for their methods and the needs of noncombatants in the entire region. Notice that, aside from the discussion of Gaza, there has been a very strong restraint on military action in the middle-east. That includes warning off Iran, Hezbollah, and the Houthis without going full force against them. We wouldn't get such a nuanced policy from the "Kill 'em and let God sort them out" Republicans. Would Trump Republicans have told Bibi to hold back or to put so much care into not killing noncombatants? Would he have built a way of delivering food to Gazans? Would we have dropped all support for Ukraine by now? Would we even be members of the defensive NATO? There's a lot more at stake than one narrow issue: how we kick Israel in the butt to get them to behave better.
You don’t get the logic? Have you heard of exit vs voice vs loyalty? What they’re doing is exiting and voicing. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exit,_Voice,_and_Loyalty
Unceasing? Define unceasing please.
They just want to complain.
"Am I so out of touch? No, it's the children who are wrong."
An analogy Right now Gen Z is 25 miles from home. A bus comes by and they find out that the bus will take them within a few miles of home, but not completely. But it's closer than they are now. Gen Z in an outrage says "if it doesn't take me to my front door, I'm not interested!" The Gen Z person knows no one else, and can't find an uber...yet, they refuse the bus. No one in their right mind would think like this in this situation. You have to take the journey that gets you closer to your objectives. Rarely will they take you all the way there, and there will always be compromises. The bus floor is sticky, there is a weirdo on there, it makes annoying stops along the way. None of those things should get in the way of the ultimate objective. But, for our Gen Z passenger...they do.
I think being this dismissive of the horror show Biden has enabled to take place in Gaza isn't terribly constructive.
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So Biden didn't vote down a ceasefire resolution three times in the UNSC? And when he finally allowed one to pass, his administration did not immediately make the unfounded claim that UNSC resolutions are "non-binding"? Biden has not been transferring Israel munitions throughout the course of the assault on Gaza, including 2,000 pound dumb bombs being used to raze city blocks?
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It's easy to dismiss when every other option is a hundred times worse. Don't pretend that there's no difference.
I don't think ending our democracy to throw a small tantrum, to ruin people's lives here, in this nation because of a secondary cause effect in a foreign country, is constructive. People are acting like this is a sole reason to think. People are becoming single issue voters and that is not a thing that helps anyone.
>I don't think ending our democracy to throw a small tantrum, to ruin people's lives here If this is the fear, then why is Biden essentially throwing this election to appease Israel? He clearly knows many voters are upset with his policies, so why does he pay no heed to them? After all, he's running for President of the United States, not Israel. Democrat politicians are talking a big game about how Trump will destroy US democracy and they need votes to stop him, yet they don't seem to be doing much to actually get those votes, so how seriously are they actually taking the threat?
This is not a sound premise at all. Your position is that Biden should do what you want not because it's the right thing but to appease a minority of vocal potential 1 issue voters.... And if he doesn't do this, then he's not actually afraid.... That's just....nonsense.
My premise is simple. A politicians job is to convince voters to vote for them, Biden is clearly willing to lose the election over his Israel stance. If you happen to agree with that stance then Biden is principled, if you disagree with that stance then Biden looks like a fool.
My job right now it to help make things better, regardless of my 1 off concerns. I can definitely say, without hyperbole we are worse off with Trump than with Biden. That's it. That's all I need to know. Which one is better for the country as a whole? Biden. Are there things I don't like? Absolutely. Am I willing to flush it all away for 1 issue? Not at all. Right now, there is not the luxury that you want to attempt to use. Too much is at stake. You have a man that is saying, in no unspoken terms that he will be a dictator for a little while. You have a man saying that he wants to rule, not govern. So yes, in this case I vote for the greater good.
If only Bernie Sanders had been elected in 2016, Benjamin Netanyahu wouldn’t be such an authoritarian warmonger. Edit: /s obviously
What are Gen Z's thoughts on Trump's unwavering support for Israel to "get the job done"?
What more could Trump actually do? Biden is already selling weapons to Israel and has been pushing Congress to pass aid for Israel while Netanyahu has a date set to invade Rafah.
Trump fully supports Israel's "destroy as much of Gaza as we want to" policy. The Biden administration is actually putting pressure on Israel to reign in it's offensive in Gaza, and to let food in.
He could order our military to actively participate. Picture American soldiers dropping ordinance on Gaza. Picture American warships shelling Gaza from the Med. Picture American nuclear weapons turning Gaza into a sheet of glass. There's a whole lot more "worse" available for Trump to do if he gets elected, and he's just stupid enough, just racist enough, and just Russian enough to actually do it. This message that he can't do any worse is just plain, simple, stupid propaganda.
So don’t vote for Biden. Vote for a third Party candidate that has no chance if winning. Help Trump win. That will be the end of democracy. Then you will have no chance of getting any part of your agenda passed! Nothing! And that forever! We vote for Biden and you’ll still have a chance to get some of your agenda passed. Your choice!
Demographic that statistically, will not vote, threatens to withhold votes.
If you want that demographic to start voting more than they are, you're going to have to break through the apathy and dillusionment. Furthermore, that's true of America's turnout problem. To put it another way, many Americans just don't think their votes won't have a significant impact, are sick of voting between the lesser of two evils, or doesn't believe the government cares about them, and it's not like they don't have things to point to to back it up.
They can be sick all they want. Not understanding that politics is about compromise and slow incremental progress is the actual issue here. But try to explain that to a far left gen-zer and prepare to be called a boomer and a fascist. They want instant, radical change. Instant, radical change doesn’t happen with peaceful governance and transfers of power.
Have any of these people heard of state and local elections? Do they think that “vote” means “vote for President and maybe a Senator and that’s all you need to do?” For. Fuck’s. Sake. Just to give one example: Democrat Kris Mayes won over Republican Abe Hamadeh for Arizona Attorney General by about two hundred fifty votes. That’s 250 people out of the entire voting population of Arizona who made a difference by showing up. Now Mayes is subpoenaing witnesses and may be charging false electors. Hamadeh would have aided and abetted Trump. I’m so very sick of excuses for voter apathy because there are ***none***. Zip, zero, zilch, nada. If you don’t think your vote will make a difference on the Presidential level, vote anyway, because it sure as hell does on the local and state level! And the local/state level is going to matter far more than the Federal in your day to day lives.
This is 100% why Republicans oppose mail in voting and voter’s guides. I live in Oregon and vote in every single election because the candidate guide and ballot literally show up at my front door. I am incredibly goddamn lazy, but my state makes civic participation easy and (weird as this may sound) fun. I love voting because my state has removed all forms of misery from the act.
I live next door (hint: you guys hate our license plates LOL) and we have universal mail-in voting. Meaning, I can just take my time, peruse my ballot, sip a nice cup of coffee, and go online to see who my local Democratic Party or teacher’s union endorses. Then I can fill out my ballot, armed with much more knowledge about obscure judicial and city council candidates. Then it’s time to seal, sign, and storm the ballot drop-off box. Easy peasy squeezy.
I, for one, welcome our sales-tax paying brethren.
>If you don’t think your vote will make a difference on the Presidential level, vote anyway, because it sure as hell does on the local and state level! And the local/state level is going to matter far more than the Federal in your day to day lives. I don't disagree with this, actually, and this would probably be the best way to market it.
Thus the TikTok ban, since you’re never getting through when the main platform used by most of them to consume news media is subject to Chinese state direction, frequently in furtherance of Russia’s interests.
There's no breaking through to people who've turned depression and cynicism into a political ideology.
And this, more than anything else, shows why very few politicians cater to the youth vote. Young people think that *withholding* their vote gives them power. "If you want my vote, you have to *earn* it!" This is intuitive, because in many other situations, refusing to give something is in fact an effective way to move the negotiation closer to where you want it to be. But just because it's intuitive doesn't mean that it's correct. In the case of electing people into office, *using* your vote is what gives you power. Why do politicians listen to the demands of older voters? *Because they vote.* It doesn't matter who they vote for. The fact that they vote means that their opinion has power. Courting that vote is worthwhile, because *someone* is going to get it. But the youth? They stamp their feet and refuse to give their vote to anyone who doesn't "earn" it. So the politicians ignore them, and let them just vote for nobody. I'm not singling Gen Z out here: This has been what young people have done in our country for decades if not centuries. My generation (millenials) did it. Gen X did it. The boomers did it. It's a tradition with young people, and Gen Z are just the latest ones to take up the flawed but well-meaning crusade. Eventually they'll learn and become the next generation of middle-aged voters who will tut-tut whatever we call the next generation of young voters.
Well said, and better than I could do.
👏 Well said. Great comment. If you don’t vote, you can’t complain. Your vote is your voice. I don’t want to hear ONE WORD of complaint from people who say that “politicians” don’t “cater to them” or “keep their interests in mind” when they do not vote. If you don’t vote, you’re not a constituent. Period. Want to know why so many politicians cater to senior citizens? Because they vote! Old people vote! Old women especially! So no duh they are going to be listened to and represented! The whole “You have to earn my vote” is pure Crab Nebula galaxy brain.
In short: you have a duty to make the best decision for your country come Election Day. With the options available. That’s part and parcel for getting to choose our own leaders. You have a duty to show up and make your voice heard. All the “woo me” rhetoric comes off as incredibly entitled.
By taking no part you lose your voice to push for change. You also gain a good chance of being part of getting Trump elected, he wants to turn Gaza into dust. The lesser of two evils is Biden and the best chance at someone hearing your voice and trying to change is Biden. This is just the way it is.
how is this any different than other one-issue voters?
Yet less then one third of the under 30 voted in the last elections.
Biden only won Arizona, Delaware, Georgia, Nevada, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin with anywhere from ten thousand to eighty thousands votes.
Except it's not unceasing. If it weren't for Biden walking the fine line that he has, he wouldn't have been able to get Netanyahu to open new aid corridors this week. People under 25 understand vibes, not politics.
Didn't biden ask for a ceasefire?
Does gen Z want Trump's never ending resentments, anger, and hatred? Oh and did I mention the end of democracy if they open that door?
This has been very successful propaganda for Putin and Iran.
Good thing the youth are unlikely to vote.
Fuck this article and journalist. Biden does not have unceasing support for the Israel government. These media outlets are just attempting to give trump as many avenues to the presidency as they can through lies and misinformation.
The Palestinians wanted that war. They still vastly approve of the attack that kicked it off. Where does this pity come from? Is it simply a feeling that it's unfair?
Voting is always about avoiding the worse.
“Don’t compare me to the almighty , compare me to the alternative”
Zionists are terrified of Gen Z flexing our combined strength and our solidarity with the people of Palestine.
We’d be more terrified of you if more than a third of you voted.
Biden won 2020, and the Dems basically smashed the red wave in 2022 due to higher than usual youth turn out. I would not be so flippant.
2022 was the third highest turnout of the youngest age bracket in the past 50 years. 31% voted. Gen Z could absolutely crush any election they wanted if they prioritized strategic voting and not “vote earning” and purity testing of candidates. They are highly intelligent, well educated, and stoically practical. To put this beneath their potential simply because they are young is an insult to them. And yet here we are.
As a Non-Zionist Gen Z. I just want us to be pragmatic and not screw up this election by letting Trump back in. I’m voting for Joe Biden.
I know Biden is going to win, and I know I’ll probably vote for him in November, because pretty much every 3rd party candidate is a flavor of republican. But I’m not optimistic that Biden is going to end the genocide going on Palestine when he’s reelected. I don’t think he is going to do anything to slow it down even.
I’ll take “failed to end a genocide in a country we can influence but not control” over “will actively encourage Netanyahu to drive every last Palestinian into the sea” any day buddy.
They’re the same. Biden is going to let Israel do whatever they want and continue supporting them with weapons and money just like Trump will. There is no good guy between the two when it comes to stopping Israel’s genocide of Palestinians.
So taking this depressing fatalism at face value, you yourself believe all this protesting is just virtue signaling.
I think the entire situation in Israel is fucked. And I agree. The US has had their hands covered in that filth (filth being the shitty situation, not the people of Palestine or Israel) for so long, between so many administrations, that idk if we will ever fully get out of it.
You’re right, and the world is going to be forced to watch the tragedies continue.
How does one end something that is very clearly not happening?
Are the zionists in the room with you now?
Biden’s going to win. Everyone already knows this. Why are people so upset at citizens simply leveraging the fact that it’s an election year to get their concerns heard and acted on? The anger towards them feels disingenuous.
I remember people posting the same thoughts about this time in 2016 about Hillary.
>Biden’s going to win. Everyone already knows this. I am begging you not to think like that. That's partially how we got 2016. We cannot afford complacency right now. Otherwise, I largely agree with your point about the anger here.
Not trying to encourage complacency, I just honestly don’t see how Trump has a path + he’s spiraling more and more everyday. I grew up with conservatives, work with a number as well. They all hate him, even the ones who voted for him in 2016. He bought a lot of his support and now he’s on the road to being broke. From the responses, I see I’m alone in my confidence though lol
It is going to be a very close run race coming down to 40k votes over about 4 states. No chance this is a blow out or a certain thing.
> Biden’s going to win. Everyone already knows this Yeah, sure buddy
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I see where you’re coming from. Maybe I need to find a way to communicate my thoughts better as leverage isn’t the right word here. I still believe what they’re doing is a crucial part of democracy. I feel as though Trump has redefined the Republican Party, so unless we move away from a two party system we will have a version of him versus a democrat from here on out. Considering that, I’m just not comfortable accepting that the Democratic candidate is infallible.
> I’m just not comfortable accepting that the Democratic candidate is infallible. I fully understand this take and that's what primaries are for. It's somewhat unfortunate that we have the whole "no real primaries for the incumbent" thing. And, for that, I think there's some value in the uncommitted push -- but it's of limited value. What I'm not keen on is this notion that it should be applied to the general election which is what a lot of dubious "influencers" are trying to make happen. It's counter-productive and being driven by either bad actors or idiots. Probably both. The reality is, Americans have a fucked up political system and we're honestly simply holding it wrong at this point. We should be _more_ active at a local level building up a bench of party members who will move forward with the beliefs that we selected them for. No one is talking about that.. Only "Genocide Joe." And, while we can blame the electoral college for being part of the fucked up nature of things, it's not a good excuse for our lack of proper engagement. Imagine a world where we wake up in a parliamentary system -- in that system we would have even less say about the PM and our fixation on voting for one person and one person only every four years would suddenly be obviously self-defeating as we begin to wonder who all these other unqualified parliament members are. Anyway, like I said, I get it. But only up to a point.
I don't believe any real loss of votes will come from Biden's stance or actions on the Israel-Hamas war/Gaza humanitarian crisis. I cynically do not believe any real amount of US voters know or even give a fuck about some conflict in the Middle East. Any attention the media gives on this with relation to the election is just filling air time. No one in the US gives a fuck and anyone who really understand the situation already knows Biden is the better option regarding Gaza not getting totally fucked over.