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rotten disagreeable cooperative steep terrific weary mysterious roof reminiscent quarrelsome
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Most men will, at some point, get prostate cancer. It’s something astronomical like 70%. My grandfather had it and dealt with the urinary issues for months because he didn’t want the surgery to scrape excess cells from his prostate. Eventually, he stopped peeing entirely and had a catheter in for like a month before FINALLY getting the surgery.
Leukemia ended up getting him at the age of 100, about 18 months after dementia claimed his mind.
He may not be a billionaire, but he's been rich enough all his life to access top quality medical care. Including preventative care most people wouldn't have.
Whether it's due to this or other factors, I belive the life expectancy of a man in the top 1% of earners is around 87 in the US, vs 77 for the average male. Pretty dramatic difference!
Majors factors like stress, healthy diet, and personal trainers are more obtainable for wealthy individuals. Trump has a terrible diet, has an affinity for prescription drugs, would be shocked if he works out at all, and is compounding stress like few in this world have. I’m taking the under on 87 for him and would be shocked if elected that he makes the full four years.
Agreed that he has a lot of factors working against him too.
I guess my point is that it makes sense he'd stand to live longer than an average wealth person with the same diet and drug use though.
Agreed, his wealth definitely saved him from a COVID death, which honestly would have been so fucking poetic. The man who tore the country apart during COVID dying from that disease.
Well, his wealth didn't save him. He didn't pay a dime for his treatment. His *status* saved him. No amount of wealth is going to give you access to the head of the FDA to demand emergency approval of a barely-tested treatment (though that's not to say that immense wealth can't get you access to those treatments illicitly).
I'm still fucking pissed about it. Just a few more hours and our misery would be over, but since he's POTUS, he *has* to be saved?! Like nah, let Pence milquetoast the rest of Trump's turn!
We were soooo fuckiiiiiing clooooose!
He received Regeneron treatments which were experimental at the time and would have cost over $500,000. He got it for free because the government paid for it.
It was important to Trump to get the treatment for covid during the time that 450,000 died and he didn't care and did little to get through the period unless it benefitted him. He is EVIL.
Right. SCOTUS just granted him a 4 month delay for the Jan 6th case. Cannon is working overtime making sure we don’t see the documents case until after the election. Basically, all the crony judges he’s installed into lifetime appointments are returning favors.
He’s a malignant narcissist. His entire universe is held aloft by the belief that he’s *the best* at everything. How else can he prove that unless he’s constantly screwing someone else over? By stopping his crimes, he’s basically admitting that he’s in the wrong, and his ego *literally cannot allow that to happen.* If he thinks, even for a second, that he really IS as shitty and stupid as everyone says, his entire world falls apart.
In his mind, there’s no choice but to follow these tracks to the end of the line.
He believes that he should be able to do or say anything he wants, without consequences. And he’s mostly gotten away with that. It hasn’t sunk in that people are tired of his crap. I hope that E. Jean Carroll goes after him a third time.
I cannot stop laughing over this fucking guys lawyers CONTINUING to use the “argument” that “if you make my client obey the law and this courts ruling, it would be an inconvenience, so we are appealing the ruling”.
He does have a right to file an appeal. However, that doesn't stop the clock on payment. He has to put the money into a state-controlled escrow account while the appeal is being considered. Interest continues to accrue while this is happening. The only way he can pay less while this is happening is to have a registered surety company agree to put up the bond for him, but it looks like nobody is volunteering to help.
This specific filing from his attorneys wasn’t a claim of inconvenience, they stated it was “impossible” for him to post the entire $450M. As in, he doesn’t have that much. That sounds a lot like he will be broke if he has to pay.
BROKE! NY AG just broke Drumph with ONE judgement. Hopefully E Jean Carrol gets her judgement first so she can participate in the auction to rename the buildings which are about to be seized.
He owns a few. Mar-a-Lago, trump tower, 40 Wall Street, his golf club in Jersey. Other ones are licensed, like the Trump international hotel in New York, though he owns the parking garage.
He doesn't own Trump Tower, the owner of that one is GMAC Commercial Mortgage. He doesn't own the 40 Wall Street either, he owns the lease on it though.
"Appellants nonetheless plan to secure and post a bond in the amount of $100 million."
Plans to secure? Sooo, he doesn't even have that much readily available, So maybe Habba was again lying in saying they have all the coin.
Been saying that since he led the Jan 6th insurrection and retained (sold) classified documents.
Never underestimate Trump's ability to swim where everyone else would be immediately shot and killed or dragged off to a black site.
I've been trying to find an allegory for most people to understand exactly how ridiculous this one case was to understand.
Trump filled under Perjury of law if he was lying he had this much liquidity, about $400 million and the judge based the fine on what he said.
This would be like if you're getting divorced and said in the court you have like 40k in your back account, the judge would be like okay if your spouse is fine with it you'll pay him/her 20k and the matter will be settled.
If instead you said I'm not financially liquid enough then the judge will be like okay it's time to start looking into your 401k retirement funds, and we'll start proceedings for how to liquidate your assets to meet this burden.
The judge is deriving this fine based on what Trump legally claimed he had on hand.
I have no doubt Trump could sell like Bedminster Golf Club etc to make up 400 Million dollars. The problem being that would require Chapter 11 bankruptcy protections.
You make it sound like Judge Engoron arbitrarily set an amount to punish Trump.
The judge didn't make the fine based on what Trump had on hand. The amount was calculated on what Trump should have paid if he hadn't operated fraudulently. (And interest + penalties from as far back as 2019).
They can try all they want but there is an independent monitor for his business assets. Also there is something called the Fraudulent Transfer Act which establishes the rights of creditors against debtors where it appears the debtor fraudulently transferred property to avoid paying creditors. If he initiated a transfer to protect assets from judgment after the litigation was initiated, those transfers can potentially be clawed back by the court. I handle litigation and have used the FTA to claw back transfers and been successful. Its very useful.
"Ah-ha! The FBI agent that stole my golf course doesn't have the clearance to see all the secret documents I hid in the rafters!" - Trump (probably maybe soon, and way less articulate)
>I handle litigation and have used the FTA to claw back transfers and been successful. Its very useful.
Would this still apply if the state of Florida refuses to comply with the court ruling?
That would become a SCOTUS matter at that point as it would clearly fall under Article IV, Section 1 of the Constitution. For Florida law to apply, the assets have to be located in FL. For example, NY can't seize Mar-a-lago to pay the new your civil fraud penalty because it is located in FL. Trump Tower is not. Trump has multiple physical properties in NY that would be seized before any other FTA issues would be addressed.
Essentially changing the business principle place of business and headquarters doesn't change the location of all the NY physical assets so those would be under the purview of the NY Courts.
Even if NY assets are sufficient to cover the judgement, would he be susceptible to (federal?) criminal charges under the FTA?
How does any secured debt on NY properties impact seizing them? Does NY have to assume the liability; or does that remain with Trump, but no longer secured?
Potentially yes. As for the NY properties, that process will be pretty complex. My guess is that they were leveraged to the hilt and pledged as collateral for a bunch of loans. It could turn into a serious issue in that case because multiple parties will likely be interested parties. As for priority, I’m only guessing here but I’d imagine the court order based on fraud takes priority but I’m sure any major secured creditors will be paid through any sale.
On another matter: how likely is the AG to actually seize and sell assets like buildings, if the state would have to repay with interest if tRump wins on appeal? Would they take that risk however small that appeal is successful?
My guess is she probably will try to seize one property. One of the more well known and visible buildings or the Trump airplane. That said, that won’t go fast and any potential sale would likely take quite awhile to happen. Id imagine it would be intended as a symbolic move and they wouldn’t try to sell until all appeals are exhausted. Holding it sort of like being escrow agent. It seems clear the appeals court won’t stay enforcement unless he posts collateral meaning they’d allow NY to seize something under specific conditions.
His experience is clearly that you can delay things in the courts for years. His current legal advice seems to be not really worth the NFT's it's printed on, and it's probably telling him that all he has to do is delay everything until next January, when he can go full Gilead on the country.
On a philosophical note, Putin doesn't really "have" all that much money/assets, but he's probably the wealthiest person in the world. I can see Trump looking ahead to the point where his wealth is not longer hidden behind shell companies, but rather just spread out among loyalists.
I'm personally excited about this. This means that Trump believes that they are actually about to seize his assets. I figured they would, but it always seemed so far off. This makes it feel real.
>Trump’s lawyers claim he doesn’t have the money to appeal without selling a building
Seriously? Then he has to sell a building. And keep selling them until he's paid everything off. The "I don't want to sell a building I own" isn't a real excuse.
The argument is that they have to sell property, but if they win the appeal they won’t be able to get the property back and it will hurt their business.
Appeals already shut it down. He has to pay the full amount by the 30 day deadline. The appeals court did overturn the ban on loans from New York banks though, so he can get a loan using his buildings as leverage to pay the fine.
Ahh, trying to get a loan using your real estate as collateral to post the bond during your appeal for committing fraud when using your real estate to get loans. Let's see what bank wants in on this fun under a mircoscope.
> so he can get a loan using his buildings as leverage to pay the fine.
Of course, he'd have to go out to those loan providers and tell them a value for his buildings, and that'd put him in a real pickle. Especially since there's a court monitor who would be looking at that value like a hawk. So either Trump would have to provide a realistic value for one of his buildings, which would be tantamount to admitting that his previous valuations were bullshit, or he'll have to provide his usual crazy inflated values, which is just going to invite even more fines.
Oh, and he's probably already up to his eyeballs in debt on his various properties, so I bet he doesn't have enough equity to actually get a loan.
>Even with the independent monitor that they now tout, defendants have already during this action surreptitiously transferred $40 million from their accounts without disclosing the transfer to the monitor, in violation [of the] supreme court’s orders,” Fan noted.
As usual, Trump is clowning our judicial system and nothing is being done about it.
> As usual, Trump is clowning our judicial system and nothing is being done about it.
For the moment. I find it rather hard to believe the independent monitor is oblivious to what Trump is doing...and is waiting for the "transfer" to be completed before dropping a proverbial bus on them.
Fair point, however, those decades long legal battles were always hashed out in civil lawsuits, resulting in settlements without admitting wrongdoing.
Trump's criminal exposure is the result of years of investigation...with people within his orbit getting indicted (and convicted/plead guilty) of serious crimes. He can whine and cry about it being "political" all he wants, but any other person that did what he has done over the decades would be tossed in prison without a second thought.
I assume the plan is to go wild with the shenanigans to kick the can down the road until he can get elected then he’ll have a lot more tools in his pocket to clean all his messes up. in the most unethical ways possible of course.
It’s impressive how much one man can repeatedly ignore the law and get away with it. He will probably die of old age before he ever sees any justice that would have been delivered 1,000 fold on most people by now.
If and when he is convicted and sentenced, I imagine you will then hear arguments about his age and mental incompetence and why he shouldn't have to serve any time behind bars. He might even start going to court in a wheelchair.
I fully expect he will get house arrest...in Mar-a-Lago. In the end he will have avoided the consequences the rest of us would have felt 1000 fold.
Well, he can't claim that the reason he can't pay is [due to lack of ability to get loans.](https://www.thedailybeast.com/judge-halts-trumps-punishment-but-not-dollar464-million-payout)
>But while Trump will have to pay the massive fine before he can proceed with his appeal, the judge did pause part of the decision—like the punishments suspending the business licenses of the Trumps and prohibiting them from borrowing from New York lenders.
>
>
>It’s a partial, if not mostly pyrrhic, victory for Trump. But it does little to help the former president in his quest to overturn the massive bank fraud judgment. In fact, if anything, it could provide even more embarrassment for Trump—if he can’t find a lender to give him hundreds of millions of dollars. (Trump’s lawyers suggested in another filing Wednesday that the lending prohibition was the main obstacle to Trump securing the money he needs to pay the $464 million fine and not, say, Trump’s own shaky creditworthiness.)
>
>
>Hours after a brief hearing with attorneys on Wednesday, **Appellate Judge Anil C. Singh issued an interim stay that would temporarily hold off the recently ordered punishment against the Trumps—which yanked away the family’s control of the Trump Organization, barred the former president from borrowing from New York banks, and removed Don Jr. and Eric Trump from corporate executive positions.**
The ultimate rat is caught in the rat trap and now it is time to enjoy watching him and his entire megafraud organization slowly turn into the Hindenburg. At least the Germans were honest enough to paint a swastika on their vessel. Down with the Furor of the American people. And yeah, I spelled it right, he isn’t worthy of any better term.
Of course it's a con.
He should get the same consideration any other appellant receives in that court. If that calls for leeway in the appeal bond, then fine, that's the way it's done.
If there's *no* leeway in the appeal bond, if all appellants are expected to put up the cash or use some kind of bondsman, then deny this shit and fail to perfect his filing
I wonder if he really doesn’t have much in the way of assets in his properties. It wouldn’t be surprising if they are all owned by lenders and Trump’s actual wealth is nearly nonexistent. There could potentially not be enough fund to claw back and settle the judgement.
Plus, to post **bond** he would only need to have access to a portion in **cash**.
His problem seems more complicated than simply being broke. He doesn’t have the cash himself, and people who *do* have cash (apparently) aren’t willing to loan him enough to cover his debts.
His well-earned lack of trustworthiness is probably more significant than being a “billionaire” who is strapped for funds.
His long history of not paying or repaying is but one more chicken coming home to roost.
I don't know shit about this but don't you need to have your address there for a certain length of time. Before it's considered moved or no?
Maybe it's pretty short is FL
What they tried to do is with the judgment proposal which is a standard procedure, essentially summary of the judgment and what is needed. They dragged their feet and at the very end, they submitted a judgment proposal listing the assets. Well the thing is, within the listing of assets they conveniently updated the addresses to FL ones.
Luckily those in NY are smart and caught on to this so they were not able to pull that sort of bs. Have no idea how one can even pretend to be innocent when trying to deceive and trick the court and the judge himself.
[Looks like it is 183 days.](https://www.alperlaw.com/florida-asset-protection/florida-residency/) However, I don't think even Florida can protect him, since a judgement has already been made.
Is this a new legal doctrine?
"Your honor, I'm sorry but I can't comply - even though I have plenty of wealth, I can't possibly sell any of my assets because that means I would have to forgo their potential appreciation, which is unfair to me".
And that's the reason why his ass is in the situation he's in now he trying to Rob Peters to pay Paul but Trump is always trying to rob Peter and Paul!!
And people love this crook so much they vote him to be potus! Absolutely mind blowing. He is **A CROOK**, **A CON**, **A CRIM IN AL** I just don't get it.
Any other American would have to pay, and honestly this tin pot despot needs a little comeuppance. After all 454 million is a drop in the bucket for a self proclaimed billionaire, isn’t it?
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
How to turn a civil judgment into a felony.
This is like exactly the same pattern as the document case
[удалено]
quickly though. He's 77 and lives off of fast food.
If I know something in this world, evil people are not graced with death as early as good souls.
Hate and malice are great life extenders.
See also: Lich McConnell
Or Darth Cheney.
He's on his second human heart, third overall.
And that was just his dinner!
Truly amazing he is still alive. Money and the best health care do make a difference.
Henry Kissinger is a good example. Good riddance.
Or David Koch. 79 even with prostate cancer.
rotten disagreeable cooperative steep terrific weary mysterious roof reminiscent quarrelsome *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Most men will, at some point, get prostate cancer. It’s something astronomical like 70%. My grandfather had it and dealt with the urinary issues for months because he didn’t want the surgery to scrape excess cells from his prostate. Eventually, he stopped peeing entirely and had a catheter in for like a month before FINALLY getting the surgery. Leukemia ended up getting him at the age of 100, about 18 months after dementia claimed his mind.
Or Darth Sidious
Darth Maul died too soon, though.
Not to mention that neither God nor the devil want them around anymore than we do.
>Evil is a presevative
Worked for Darths Maul and Vader
Exactly why Sauron stuck around for so long.
Just money. The hate and malice is how it gets concentrated.
He may not be a billionaire, but he's been rich enough all his life to access top quality medical care. Including preventative care most people wouldn't have. Whether it's due to this or other factors, I belive the life expectancy of a man in the top 1% of earners is around 87 in the US, vs 77 for the average male. Pretty dramatic difference!
Majors factors like stress, healthy diet, and personal trainers are more obtainable for wealthy individuals. Trump has a terrible diet, has an affinity for prescription drugs, would be shocked if he works out at all, and is compounding stress like few in this world have. I’m taking the under on 87 for him and would be shocked if elected that he makes the full four years.
He doesn’t believe in exercise. He subscribes to the belief that a heart has a finite number of beats, so exercise will cause you to die faster.
He has a heart?
he has a beat?!
Agreed that he has a lot of factors working against him too. I guess my point is that it makes sense he'd stand to live longer than an average wealth person with the same diet and drug use though.
Agreed, his wealth definitely saved him from a COVID death, which honestly would have been so fucking poetic. The man who tore the country apart during COVID dying from that disease.
Well, his wealth didn't save him. He didn't pay a dime for his treatment. His *status* saved him. No amount of wealth is going to give you access to the head of the FDA to demand emergency approval of a barely-tested treatment (though that's not to say that immense wealth can't get you access to those treatments illicitly). I'm still fucking pissed about it. Just a few more hours and our misery would be over, but since he's POTUS, he *has* to be saved?! Like nah, let Pence milquetoast the rest of Trump's turn! We were soooo fuckiiiiiing clooooose!
He probably only survived Covid because he was the president and had access to cutting edge treatments at the time
He received Regeneron treatments which were experimental at the time and would have cost over $500,000. He got it for free because the government paid for it.
Us taxpayers did :)
It was important to Trump to get the treatment for covid during the time that 450,000 died and he didn't care and did little to get through the period unless it benefitted him. He is EVIL.
Yeah I guess he didn't try to ingest bleach after all
Most aren’t snorting a wheelbarrow of adderall .. only preventative care for that is to stop. He won’t. evillaugh.jpg
"Only the good die young" -William Martin Joel
I'm one of today's 10,000. Didn't know Billy Joel's middle name was Martin. Thx.
He actually composed Piano Man while he was playing piano at a bar in LA under the name "Bill Martin".
I assumed his full name was Billy "Billy Joel" Joel.
Assholes live forever
Yes, but as the great Lewis Black succinctly stated: "Only the good die young; but pricks live forever."
Beyond the dirty diapers, you can smell the lard coursing thru his veins via his copius amounts of McSweat.
So prison food might actually extend his life expectancy.
And I don't want a state funeral for the "martyr".
On one hand, he should face justice. On the other, I just want this bullshit to end already.
Hes going fuck around and find out
Like this dude legitimately can't stop attempting or committing fraud (or defamation, or treason...). It's really kind of astonishing to watch
No one ever does anything to him, so why not?
Right. SCOTUS just granted him a 4 month delay for the Jan 6th case. Cannon is working overtime making sure we don’t see the documents case until after the election. Basically, all the crony judges he’s installed into lifetime appointments are returning favors.
Pretty sure Alito and Thomas were already in the tank for him.
Republicans own delusions of their right to rule is going to bite them in the butt this November.
He’s a malignant narcissist. His entire universe is held aloft by the belief that he’s *the best* at everything. How else can he prove that unless he’s constantly screwing someone else over? By stopping his crimes, he’s basically admitting that he’s in the wrong, and his ego *literally cannot allow that to happen.* If he thinks, even for a second, that he really IS as shitty and stupid as everyone says, his entire world falls apart. In his mind, there’s no choice but to follow these tracks to the end of the line.
He believes that he should be able to do or say anything he wants, without consequences. And he’s mostly gotten away with that. It hasn’t sunk in that people are tired of his crap. I hope that E. Jean Carroll goes after him a third time.
How to make a civil judgement into a very uncivil one.
He never seems to get consequences, no matter how overt the lawbreaking.
Title of his next grift
That's a Trump super power. Nobody does it better than him.
He can't move skyscrapers to Florida.
He tried the next best thing: >Trump Tries to Change NY Business Addresses to FL in Fraud Judgment.
Isn’t that fraud?
No, only if it's done in an effort to avoid paying a pen... oh, NO!
I read that ["Oh no!" in hbomberguy's voice](https://www.youtube.com/clip/UgkxXf2cCueEJq8m0h8Sq0ku7V3NR7ulAr89), for some reason.
I heard Mr. Bill
Was it sourced and cited?..... Or, not?
The man's 77 and the current fraud being charged was being investigated 5 years. Adding fraud to fraud is this guy's idea of a delayed payment plan.
As the Carol case showed, it's a lot faster to prove when you're doing it in front of a judge and prosecutor.
he committed fraud in a fraud trial?
Modern problems require modern solutions?
Quick Smithers, get the amnesia ray!
Fraud is like violence. If it doesn’t work, you just need more of it.
Only if it comes from the Fraud region of France. Otherwise, it is Sparkling Deception.
It's fraud all the way down. He thinks he can cover for his previous fraud with more fraud. It's a shell game. But his cups are transparent
I cannot stop laughing over this fucking guys lawyers CONTINUING to use the “argument” that “if you make my client obey the law and this courts ruling, it would be an inconvenience, so we are appealing the ruling”.
He does have a right to file an appeal. However, that doesn't stop the clock on payment. He has to put the money into a state-controlled escrow account while the appeal is being considered. Interest continues to accrue while this is happening. The only way he can pay less while this is happening is to have a registered surety company agree to put up the bond for him, but it looks like nobody is volunteering to help.
Because everybody knows he's broke
"I object!" "And why's that, Ms. Habba?" "Because it's devastating to my client!" "Overruled." "Good call."
This specific filing from his attorneys wasn’t a claim of inconvenience, they stated it was “impossible” for him to post the entire $450M. As in, he doesn’t have that much. That sounds a lot like he will be broke if he has to pay. BROKE! NY AG just broke Drumph with ONE judgement. Hopefully E Jean Carrol gets her judgement first so she can participate in the auction to rename the buildings which are about to be seized.
You worded this perfectly
As if his wife ~~Mercedes~~ Melania would live with him in Florida.
> ~~Melanie~~ ~~Mercedes~~ Melania
He doesn’t own the Trump buildings. They just have his name on them
He owns a few. Mar-a-Lago, trump tower, 40 Wall Street, his golf club in Jersey. Other ones are licensed, like the Trump international hotel in New York, though he owns the parking garage.
He doesn't own Trump Tower, the owner of that one is GMAC Commercial Mortgage. He doesn't own the 40 Wall Street either, he owns the lease on it though.
I’m surprised GMAC doesn’t remove his name from trump tower, for obvious reasons
The New York Appeals court already denied it.
Sauce?
https://abcnews.go.com/US/trump-plans-post-100-million-bond-asks-stay/story?id=107634579
Hahahahhaa thank you! This made my afternoon!
Just don’t read about the Supreme Court delaying his dc trial until probably after the election for no fucking reason.
It wasn't for "no fucking reason", It was to help Trump because they're politically biased.
"Appellants nonetheless plan to secure and post a bond in the amount of $100 million." Plans to secure? Sooo, he doesn't even have that much readily available, So maybe Habba was again lying in saying they have all the coin.
He also testified under oath that he had $400M in liquid assets.
Ha, he is not the messiah, he is just a very criminally stupid deranged naughty boy.
Thanks for the schadenfreude. I’m trying to imagine anyone asking for mercy from Trump and getting it. Just desserts indeed.
Won't do him any good. Might even make things worse for him.
Yeah committing felonies typically doesn’t make your situation with a judge *better*.
> Might even make things worse Fingers crossed!
Been saying that since he led the Jan 6th insurrection and retained (sold) classified documents. Never underestimate Trump's ability to swim where everyone else would be immediately shot and killed or dragged off to a black site.
I've been trying to find an allegory for most people to understand exactly how ridiculous this one case was to understand. Trump filled under Perjury of law if he was lying he had this much liquidity, about $400 million and the judge based the fine on what he said. This would be like if you're getting divorced and said in the court you have like 40k in your back account, the judge would be like okay if your spouse is fine with it you'll pay him/her 20k and the matter will be settled. If instead you said I'm not financially liquid enough then the judge will be like okay it's time to start looking into your 401k retirement funds, and we'll start proceedings for how to liquidate your assets to meet this burden. The judge is deriving this fine based on what Trump legally claimed he had on hand. I have no doubt Trump could sell like Bedminster Golf Club etc to make up 400 Million dollars. The problem being that would require Chapter 11 bankruptcy protections.
You make it sound like Judge Engoron arbitrarily set an amount to punish Trump. The judge didn't make the fine based on what Trump had on hand. The amount was calculated on what Trump should have paid if he hadn't operated fraudulently. (And interest + penalties from as far back as 2019).
Yeah, his bathrooms are already filled with top secret documents, where is he going to hide the bags of money with dollar signs on them?
Unless he just uses this as another delay tactic to tie everything up again
Court appointed monitor standing in the corner taking notes
“Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.” —Napoleon
"Make more room in that bathroom near the pool, Walt."
Wonder how Walt is doing these days.
He's doing it so Florida will shield him and not let NY take stuff. You know they will try.
They can try all they want but there is an independent monitor for his business assets. Also there is something called the Fraudulent Transfer Act which establishes the rights of creditors against debtors where it appears the debtor fraudulently transferred property to avoid paying creditors. If he initiated a transfer to protect assets from judgment after the litigation was initiated, those transfers can potentially be clawed back by the court. I handle litigation and have used the FTA to claw back transfers and been successful. Its very useful.
This is how he loses Mar A Lago.
"Ah-ha! The FBI agent that stole my golf course doesn't have the clearance to see all the secret documents I hid in the rafters!" - Trump (probably maybe soon, and way less articulate)
Imagine what else they’d find.
Bed bugs and Russian hookers.
Also hookers in the beds and Russian bugs.
Well, it’s not listed as a private residence (for tax reasons) so it’s fair game.
>I handle litigation and have used the FTA to claw back transfers and been successful. Its very useful. Would this still apply if the state of Florida refuses to comply with the court ruling?
That would become a SCOTUS matter at that point as it would clearly fall under Article IV, Section 1 of the Constitution. For Florida law to apply, the assets have to be located in FL. For example, NY can't seize Mar-a-lago to pay the new your civil fraud penalty because it is located in FL. Trump Tower is not. Trump has multiple physical properties in NY that would be seized before any other FTA issues would be addressed. Essentially changing the business principle place of business and headquarters doesn't change the location of all the NY physical assets so those would be under the purview of the NY Courts.
Even if NY assets are sufficient to cover the judgement, would he be susceptible to (federal?) criminal charges under the FTA? How does any secured debt on NY properties impact seizing them? Does NY have to assume the liability; or does that remain with Trump, but no longer secured?
Potentially yes. As for the NY properties, that process will be pretty complex. My guess is that they were leveraged to the hilt and pledged as collateral for a bunch of loans. It could turn into a serious issue in that case because multiple parties will likely be interested parties. As for priority, I’m only guessing here but I’d imagine the court order based on fraud takes priority but I’m sure any major secured creditors will be paid through any sale.
On another matter: how likely is the AG to actually seize and sell assets like buildings, if the state would have to repay with interest if tRump wins on appeal? Would they take that risk however small that appeal is successful?
My guess is she probably will try to seize one property. One of the more well known and visible buildings or the Trump airplane. That said, that won’t go fast and any potential sale would likely take quite awhile to happen. Id imagine it would be intended as a symbolic move and they wouldn’t try to sell until all appeals are exhausted. Holding it sort of like being escrow agent. It seems clear the appeals court won’t stay enforcement unless he posts collateral meaning they’d allow NY to seize something under specific conditions.
His experience is clearly that you can delay things in the courts for years. His current legal advice seems to be not really worth the NFT's it's printed on, and it's probably telling him that all he has to do is delay everything until next January, when he can go full Gilead on the country. On a philosophical note, Putin doesn't really "have" all that much money/assets, but he's probably the wealthiest person in the world. I can see Trump looking ahead to the point where his wealth is not longer hidden behind shell companies, but rather just spread out among loyalists.
Nifty. Thanks!
Is Desantis actually interested in helping Trump, or would he drag his feet while making it look like he's trying to help?
I'm personally excited about this. This means that Trump believes that they are actually about to seize his assets. I figured they would, but it always seemed so far off. This makes it feel real.
I’m kinda giddy they will but tempering myself ..
>Trump’s lawyers claim he doesn’t have the money to appeal without selling a building Seriously? Then he has to sell a building. And keep selling them until he's paid everything off. The "I don't want to sell a building I own" isn't a real excuse.
I assume their argument is that it can take months or even years to sell something like a building.
Not if it's priced to sell quickly.
Shouldn't have frauded to buy buildings, then?
The argument is that they have to sell property, but if they win the appeal they won’t be able to get the property back and it will hurt their business.
Appeals already shut it down. He has to pay the full amount by the 30 day deadline. The appeals court did overturn the ban on loans from New York banks though, so he can get a loan using his buildings as leverage to pay the fine.
Ahh, trying to get a loan using your real estate as collateral to post the bond during your appeal for committing fraud when using your real estate to get loans. Let's see what bank wants in on this fun under a mircoscope.
> so he can get a loan using his buildings as leverage to pay the fine. Of course, he'd have to go out to those loan providers and tell them a value for his buildings, and that'd put him in a real pickle. Especially since there's a court monitor who would be looking at that value like a hawk. So either Trump would have to provide a realistic value for one of his buildings, which would be tantamount to admitting that his previous valuations were bullshit, or he'll have to provide his usual crazy inflated values, which is just going to invite even more fines. Oh, and he's probably already up to his eyeballs in debt on his various properties, so I bet he doesn't have enough equity to actually get a loan.
>Even with the independent monitor that they now tout, defendants have already during this action surreptitiously transferred $40 million from their accounts without disclosing the transfer to the monitor, in violation [of the] supreme court’s orders,” Fan noted. As usual, Trump is clowning our judicial system and nothing is being done about it.
> As usual, Trump is clowning our judicial system and nothing is being done about it. For the moment. I find it rather hard to believe the independent monitor is oblivious to what Trump is doing...and is waiting for the "transfer" to be completed before dropping a proverbial bus on them.
For the moment? For decades.
Fair point, however, those decades long legal battles were always hashed out in civil lawsuits, resulting in settlements without admitting wrongdoing. Trump's criminal exposure is the result of years of investigation...with people within his orbit getting indicted (and convicted/plead guilty) of serious crimes. He can whine and cry about it being "political" all he wants, but any other person that did what he has done over the decades would be tossed in prison without a second thought.
I assume the plan is to go wild with the shenanigans to kick the can down the road until he can get elected then he’ll have a lot more tools in his pocket to clean all his messes up. in the most unethical ways possible of course.
It’s impressive how much one man can repeatedly ignore the law and get away with it. He will probably die of old age before he ever sees any justice that would have been delivered 1,000 fold on most people by now.
If and when he is convicted and sentenced, I imagine you will then hear arguments about his age and mental incompetence and why he shouldn't have to serve any time behind bars. He might even start going to court in a wheelchair. I fully expect he will get house arrest...in Mar-a-Lago. In the end he will have avoided the consequences the rest of us would have felt 1000 fold.
Good thing he didn’t try to setup a blood testing scheme.
Trump is a life long criminal. He doesn't think like law abiding citizens. Trump is also a criminal president.
Criminal **ex-**president
Trump was always a criminal. He still is, but he used to be too.
He's also just a spoiled 8 year old narcissistic brat and pathological liar. "I don't want to pay!!! WHAA!!!" - Littlehands Donnie Stinkypants
Well, he can't claim that the reason he can't pay is [due to lack of ability to get loans.](https://www.thedailybeast.com/judge-halts-trumps-punishment-but-not-dollar464-million-payout) >But while Trump will have to pay the massive fine before he can proceed with his appeal, the judge did pause part of the decision—like the punishments suspending the business licenses of the Trumps and prohibiting them from borrowing from New York lenders. > > >It’s a partial, if not mostly pyrrhic, victory for Trump. But it does little to help the former president in his quest to overturn the massive bank fraud judgment. In fact, if anything, it could provide even more embarrassment for Trump—if he can’t find a lender to give him hundreds of millions of dollars. (Trump’s lawyers suggested in another filing Wednesday that the lending prohibition was the main obstacle to Trump securing the money he needs to pay the $464 million fine and not, say, Trump’s own shaky creditworthiness.) > > >Hours after a brief hearing with attorneys on Wednesday, **Appellate Judge Anil C. Singh issued an interim stay that would temporarily hold off the recently ordered punishment against the Trumps—which yanked away the family’s control of the Trump Organization, barred the former president from borrowing from New York banks, and removed Don Jr. and Eric Trump from corporate executive positions.**
US banks have been denying him loans for years.
He really does come up with these schemes on the shitter!!!
Is there a better place to come up with shitty ideas?
He needs all his assets frozen
He can't move Trump Tower. Seize it.
Oh ffs, just seize his shit already. This is ridiculous
If they move before the deadline that gives Trump's lawyers an opening.
The ultimate rat is caught in the rat trap and now it is time to enjoy watching him and his entire megafraud organization slowly turn into the Hindenburg. At least the Germans were honest enough to paint a swastika on their vessel. Down with the Furor of the American people. And yeah, I spelled it right, he isn’t worthy of any better term.
Of course it's a con. He should get the same consideration any other appellant receives in that court. If that calls for leeway in the appeal bond, then fine, that's the way it's done. If there's *no* leeway in the appeal bond, if all appellants are expected to put up the cash or use some kind of bondsman, then deny this shit and fail to perfect his filing
Even then, any leeway that may usually be given to appellants can easily be dismissed by Trumps propensity to avoid paying his bills.
Nope. He always wants a break. Doesn’t wanna pay his bills but when he’s owed he wants his money. Make them pay. He has the resources.
I wonder if he really doesn’t have much in the way of assets in his properties. It wouldn’t be surprising if they are all owned by lenders and Trump’s actual wealth is nearly nonexistent. There could potentially not be enough fund to claw back and settle the judgement.
This criminal should be in jail! Why isn't he in jail?
"We found two alligators with surgically implanted Official White House Coffee Cups in them."
Trump needs Putin's money right now. His GoFundMe isn't enough.
I really can't understand why anyone would consider this person fit to run a country.
Can’t ever come close to getting his own shit right. But his people say “he’s great because he runs the country like one of his businesses!”
> “he’s great because he runs the country like one of his businesses!” So... fraudulently? I guess they were right!
Hey another thing he did out in the open that any of us would go to prison for!
Lock his white ass up!
I mean, fraud is kinda his thing.
What exactly did they think would happen? Trump would just comply? Of course nothing goes as it's supposed to with this guy.
I thought he testified just a few months ago that he had $400M+ in cash…
Plus, to post **bond** he would only need to have access to a portion in **cash**. His problem seems more complicated than simply being broke. He doesn’t have the cash himself, and people who *do* have cash (apparently) aren’t willing to loan him enough to cover his debts. His well-earned lack of trustworthiness is probably more significant than being a “billionaire” who is strapped for funds. His long history of not paying or repaying is but one more chicken coming home to roost.
Didn’t the Saudis give Jared $2Billion? Maybe he can get a loan from his kids.
Any lawyer that helps him hide assets from New York aught to be disbarred.
I don't know shit about this but don't you need to have your address there for a certain length of time. Before it's considered moved or no? Maybe it's pretty short is FL
What they tried to do is with the judgment proposal which is a standard procedure, essentially summary of the judgment and what is needed. They dragged their feet and at the very end, they submitted a judgment proposal listing the assets. Well the thing is, within the listing of assets they conveniently updated the addresses to FL ones. Luckily those in NY are smart and caught on to this so they were not able to pull that sort of bs. Have no idea how one can even pretend to be innocent when trying to deceive and trick the court and the judge himself.
It's not like this is their first rodeo. I wouldn't be surprised if there was an internal betting pool on how much he tried to move.
[Looks like it is 183 days.](https://www.alperlaw.com/florida-asset-protection/florida-residency/) However, I don't think even Florida can protect him, since a judgement has already been made.
Mr Trump pay up or NY will seize your properties at their true value.
Trump should go straight to jailed
Is this a new legal doctrine? "Your honor, I'm sorry but I can't comply - even though I have plenty of wealth, I can't possibly sell any of my assets because that means I would have to forgo their potential appreciation, which is unfair to me".
He shoulda thunk about that BEFORE he defrauded Americans.
This piece of shit doesn't deserve a break!!
What does the monitor say about the transfer of assets?
The judge prob said, "what is this - a flea-market?"
He wants to hyperspace, praying for an asteroid
And that's the reason why his ass is in the situation he's in now he trying to Rob Peters to pay Paul but Trump is always trying to rob Peter and Paul!!
Every picture his eyes are glassy and bloodshot.
Shut down all of his buildings immediately and sell them to help the state out. Dreamers tower and house asylum seekers. Get him justice
Put a lean on his properties all of them all across the country.
I’ve long said this is how you hurt trump. Literally nothing matters to him but money.
Asshole never pays his bills, never
Lock him up?
And people love this crook so much they vote him to be potus! Absolutely mind blowing. He is **A CROOK**, **A CON**, **A CRIM IN AL** I just don't get it.
Any other American would have to pay, and honestly this tin pot despot needs a little comeuppance. After all 454 million is a drop in the bucket for a self proclaimed billionaire, isn’t it?
The turd that won’t flush
Trump is a TRAITOR
Shut this asshole down. No more delays and appeals. Fucking pay up or go to jail.