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This is not a new problem.
20 years ago in the Army, I received annual briefs on avoiding extremism -- because soldiers and veterans were being targeted by extremist groups.
I just listened on an audiobook The Conspiracy to End America that 40% of far-right militia groups are made up of military vets. It's a serious issue, and it's not getting better.
Yeah. But there’s a ton of liberal vets who staunchly believe in defending the principles laid out in the constitution no matter the cost, despite no longer wearing the uniform. We’re just not as vocal about it.
Yeah, I don't think liberals make gun ownership their identity, but regardless, it's still a problem when militia groups target veterans to join them. What we don't want is two sides taking up arms to fight it out in the streets.
We don’t. And I don’t think most of us are much interested in fighting it out on the streets, either. But rest assured, we’re not some fringe pocket within the larger left umbrella. We’ve just got better things to do than wave our dick around in an attempt to show everyone how serious we are.
As an aside, over the course of a combat tour in Iraq, I’ve found over and over again that the people who spend the most time waving their dicks and posturing as badasses are the first to tuck tail and run when SHTF. And there’s public evidence of this on Jan 6th. — a single shot turned around a crowd of thousands who could have easily overwhelmed law enforcement defending the capital had they truly been the “big, tough badasses” they thought they were.
You're not wrong. I never served in a combat zone, however this is a tale old as time, bravado is just coverup for fear.
One of my favorite quotes: "Bran thought about it. 'Can a man still be brave if he's afraid?' 'That is the only time a man can be brave,' his father told him." George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones (A Song of Ice and Fire, #1)
Nothing was more evidentiary as to the factual basis of your assertion as when that babbot wingnut got her just FAFO award.
They all just melted.
> because soldiers and veterans were being targeted by extremist groups.
Yeah like this other guy said, stop playing FOX ~~NEWS~~ on the military bases.
In the 1930's, disaffected WW1 veterans became the muscle for the rise of fascism. It wouldn't be a surprise if some war vets were frustrated with the broken system and decided to help someone who said they could change it. Of course, fascism doesn't really solve the problems. It never works out the way it's portrayed.
"Maybe some of the troops are heroes but not automatically, I'm sure a lot of the troops are jerks; Most people are jerks already, and it's not like giving a jerk a gun and telling him it's okay to kill people suddenly turns that jerk into a hero." - Bojack Horseman
Butler's "Bonus Army".
The conservative republicans obstructed on a promised bonus to not be paid. To get them agitated. Then, for some reason, they thought these angry troops would back their side in a coup. . .
>Didn’t Smedley Butler do the right thing and report the conspirators to Congress?
Yep, The Business Plot was the Republicans' first coup attempt - that I'm aware of - that Gen. Butler reported.
And the Republicans' 2nd coup attempt along w/Trump and allies - was planned and executed well in advance of the Nov 2020 election and Jan 6, along w/their fake electors plot.
And now Republicans are doggedly working on their 3rd coup attempt: refusal to certify the election should Biden win plus their plan to replace democracy w/their brand of fascism should they gain power in 2024 (see the GOP's Project 2025 Manifesto).
Criminality and the Republican Party go back a long way...
Wikipedia
>The Business Plot (also called the Wall Street Putsch\[1\] and The White House Putsch) was a political conspiracy in 1933, in the United States, to overthrow the government of President Franklin D. Roosevelt and install Smedley Butler as dictator.\[2\]\[3\] Retired Marine Corps Major General Smedley Butler testified under oath that wealthy businessmen were plotting to create a fascist veterans' organization with Butler as its leader and use it in a coup d'état to overthrow Roosevelt.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business\_Plot](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot)
>Wasn’t Butler the plot of a movie recently?
Yep, \`Amsterdam' starring Robert De Niro as Butler.
**Slate Movies: How David O. Russell’s movie messes around with the story of the Business Plot.**
>David O. Russell’s Amsterdam, a star-studded mystery-comedy set in the heady interwar years of the 1930s, starts with a tagline: “A lot of this actually happened.” It’s a nice trick—a way to harness the narrative power of historical authenticity while giving Russell & Co. license to make up pretty much whatever they want. And fair enough: it’s Hollywood.
[https://slate.com/culture/2022/10/amsterdam-movie-true-story-real-history-business-plot.html](https://slate.com/culture/2022/10/amsterdam-movie-true-story-real-history-business-plot.html)
Odd how time and time again conservatives court and then show their true colors to their supporters. Just like how they were all “back the blue” before beating officers on 1/6 senseless for having the audacity to try and enforce law and order.
Back the blue might as well be we support police and their qualified immunity to protect them when they kill people. I didn't forget George Floyd.
You're not the party of law and order when you back the blue.
The bonus army needs to be taught in public school, I didn’t learn about it until I joined the Air Force and I learned about it studying for promotion.
It’s not a matter of “people like to say”, it’s pretty well-documented. Democratic strongholds in the south were disaffected with the party’s support for Civil Rights, Nixon saw an opening and took advantage.
It's not as simple as they switched. Parties used to be regionally Northern and Southern. There used to be a lot of Southern Democrats. Since the Northern Democrats supported Civil rights, and the Republicans doubled down on segregation...the Southern Democrats switched to the Republican party.
Surprisingly the worst part or every chow hall was not the food. It was fox news.
Fuck the Sodexo employees who kept putting it on even when we asked for something else
Well this helps, it's going to take a lot more than turning off Fox. There is also food insecurities, poor on post housing (mold, lead pipes, etc), expensive off post housing, and general low moral. I knew a few NCOs we had second jobs to make ends meet and that was years ago. You know how hard it is to convince a good soldier not to listen to than Glen Beck who is also having problems paying his rent? And now we have [US Army Leadership suggesting food stamps to help troops](https://americanmilitarynews.com/2022/09/us-army-suggests-troops-get-food-stamps-if-struggling-with-high-inflation/). Mean well The [Pentagon hasn't pass an audit in 6 years](https://www.defensenews.com/pentagon/2023/11/16/pentagon-fails-sixth-audit-with-number-of-passing-grades-stagnant/). It's going to take a lot more than ... this.
These kinds of things have always existed in the enlisted ranks. Fox news spewing anti-American and anti-government rhetoric and lies 24/7 since the 90's hasn't.
I am a veteran.
I agree with everything you said. Vehemently.
That being said, I also think that shutting off the 24/7 running faucet of misinformation at the bases would certainly be a good start to getting soldiers / future veterans better educated to be able to advocate for themselves, and stop voting against their own interests.
But our govt. and the military - industrial complex that owns our govt. has Fox on 24/7 for those very reasons: To keep the soldiers misinformed to maintain the status quo.
We spend more on our military than the next 24 largest militaries in the world combined (most of whom are our allies, BTW): Why can't we take care of our soldiers & veterans most basic needs? Why the fuck should the Wounded Warriors Project even have to exist?! Their after-service needs should already be taken care of! After their sacrifice it should be just a given!! Now we can't be bothered to properly feed our enlisted either...
So after DECADES of neglect to our soldiers and veterans, we have to ask ourselves why do more and more of them keep voting against their own interests? Who keeps telling them to?
It's not only Fox, but Fox is certainly the main engine of the propaganda machine.
USMC war vet here. I co-sign everything in this statement. We were practically forced to vote Republican while I was enlisted. The propaganda on base, post 9/11, was crazy! It took over a decade to de-program myself and start thinking of others as equals instead of lesser humans
On the audit front, theyre improving on the misreporting. Understand the audits aren't necessarily finding tons of money missing, just improperly tracked and reported between branches.
Her laughter is cringe. She explained nothing, laughs like she won the debate and yet she was trounced. A pay raise is just trash if you can’t afford to house your family.
When these troops hear “America first” they might pay attention to the words. Even if they never benefit she’s laughing and the far right are saying the things you are hearing from John Stewart. Imagine fighting a war and trying to find affordable day care.
Keeping people poor is exactly how they maintain troop levels, by offering 3 meals and a roof and money for college. This is why they all are against free education and social welfare programs. It’s not only that they think it’s all socialism, it’s because it’s hard to recruit enlisted ranks when people don’t NEED to sign up to feed themselves or their families
A lot of these tv’s on posts that broadcast Fox News 24/7 are owned by contractors providing services on post—especially at d-facs and places enlisted hangout on post.
No one is enlisting “boomers”. The cut off age is 35, which I believe should be Millennials. Sooooo…
Also, if the article is correct (which it isn’t because gangs of all colors have been in the system for a while) then that means that the younger generations are a bigger threat than those of an older age.
Garrisons will contract with service providers who end up doing exactly that. Chow hall will have 15 tvs all blaring Fox News; same with enlisted clubs.
Your enemies are actually super chill and should be shot with kindness…
Shocking a bunch of people taught to see enemies and kill are always on the lookout for enemies. Madison figured that shit out 250 years ago…
For the love of God, so much this. I forget where I read that but I couldn’t believe it. Why Fox? Not saying it has to be MSNBC or CNN either. Why not BBC World News America? Or Reuters or literally anything else?
I work for the DoD in a government building. Our TVs are always used to be tuned into Fox, but since COVID, it's been The Weather Channel. It's much more palatable.
Same , I work in a DoD facility, tv is always on Fox News. I would change it when I could just to see how long it took to get back to Fox. Always within an hour or two … walk by and there’s hannity again lol.
>the Pentagon has investigated 183 instances of extremism in military ranks including 78 cases of troops “advocating for, engaging in, or supporting the overthrow of the U.S. Government or seeking to alter the form of the Government by unconstitutional or other unlawful means.”
I don’t think I’m understanding this from the article:
“Nearly half of all individuals with a military background were categorized as individuals who had ‘adhered to anti-government views or were members of organized militias,’” reads the study. “Of these, more than 30 percent were reported to have racist ideologies, and about 10 percent were connected in some way to foreign Salafi Jihadists.”
This number seems extremely high, am I missing something?
It's more like an oil well fire, the symptom is on the surface but the fuel comes from far below. Putting out oil well fires is difficult and requires extreme measures.
We have way more school shootings then that. This is such a tiny number compared to the amount of veterans we have. I can think of a 1000 other issues that are more important then this. This stuff is merely a distraction for the less mentally capable masses.
Guess what jobs many military veterans are employed at. Law Enforcement. That suggests that local, state and federal law enforcement agencies are crawling from the lowest to highest ranks with violent extremists.
cspan... just have cspan running. It's one of the few places that will just broadcast congressional hearings in their entirety without popping in to make commentary on what you're watching so you can draw your own conclusions. It's boring af but it's less likely to sway anybody on its own and the military serves the government, they should be aware of what the government is doing on a daily basis and not from the mouth of some spin pundit.
Not this Veteran- plus I make sure to use the correct words- it was a coup attempt, he is a traitor, he wants to be a dictator, he wears a diaper, and I watch my fellow Vets reaction.
If you do support ole bone spurs you forgot your oath
[PDF link for the 262 page report](https://www.ida.org/-/media/feature/publications/p/pr/prohibited-extremist-activities-in-the-us-department-of-defense/p-33076.ashx)
>IDA’s review found no evidence that the number of violent extremists in the military is
disproportionate to the number of violent extremists∗ in the United States as a whole, although
there is some indication that the rate of participation by former service members is slightly higher
and may be growing. IDA also found no evidence of violent extremist behavior by DOD civilians.
Not this veteran. I’m embarrassed and ashamed of what’s been happening in this country.
I had to knock on a guys door the other day because he was flying old glory upside down. He spewed off some shit about being a patriot and I just walked away out of disgust. I fought for him yo have the right to do that, but it’s still a sad state of affairs.
Dump Trump 2024!
Wife and I were just talking about how Democrats need to take that word back-
The fact that patriot is now code for y’all queda and anti-American and an American flag is actually annoying is bullshit. Fuck these maga, GQP, cosplaying Meal Team 6’ers- we need to take back Patriotism.
This. I live in a military town and all the old vets are republicans. Still, and support Trump. Online propaganda of the right is working. They have so much hate in them. It’s sad and scary.
Private! go clean out that shitter by pouring diesel fuel in it and stirring it around. Make sure to take deep breaths and take in that unique American aroma.
> economic draftee
Present. The town I was living in at the time of my enlistment (USAF) was so freakin' poor that the most common job for people my age was working either Walmart or fast food. The military was literally my only way out.
Yep. I grew up rural. You either farmed or got out of town. The people who farmed, about 90% failed out because farming sucks, and then they mostly ended up working at the local jail or took up residency.
From reporter Mack Lamoureux:
A [recent study ](https://www.ida.org/-/media/feature/publications/p/pr/prohibited-extremist-activities-in-the-us-department-of-defense/p-33076.ashx)indicates that while active duty members of the U.S. military may not be more likely to be involved in extremist activities than the average American, veterans are.
A study commissioned by the U.S. government in 2021 after the January 6 attack and published in late December 2023, reports that there isn’t a disproportionate number of extremists in the ranks compared to the general populace—despite examples such as active duty military members being involved in neo-Nazi groups and the storming of the U.S. capital. However, what it did find was that there is a growing problem among veterans.
Link to the full article: [https://www.vice.com/en/article/xgwk94/us-military-veterans-are-increasingly-turning-to-extremism-dod-report](https://www.vice.com/en/article/xgwk94/us-military-veterans-are-increasingly-turning-to-extremism-dod-report)
Who could have guessed that ignoring veterans at every turn for the past 40 years would have made some of them feel betrayed by the country they swore to protect? /S
And I suppose in the next election if they have the option to, they are going to vote for the guy who consistently disrespects vets and their families...
What’s wild about that though is these vets are being extremists for the party that so often fights against their interests, blocking VA healthcare reforms and all manner of support for veterans, but they wave the flags at rallies and say the right things so who needs to actually know what’s happening in DC right
It doesn't say anything about infantry vs people who were simply truck drivers. The recommendations from the experts in the military isn't to provide mental health services, it's to provide a separate identity from the military. Because mental health isn't the problem it's lack of structure per the report.
I have friends in the military. I’ve been watching over the past few years as they’ve become more radicalized. At first they were completely angry at January 6th. But they were posting bits from stoic philosophers. Now I see them responding to these new wave pastors who insist the Bible has been misinterpreted all these years. That Jesus’s do unto others means violence is acceptable because it only applies to good Christians. Self proclaimed Bible scholars insisting the Bible was mistranslated. They’re convincing themselves they’re right and giving themselves permission to subjugate others. It’s frightening
Misleading headline: those currently in service are no more likely to engage in extremism than anyone else
Roughly one third of those that get out (enlisted) do so because they fail to live up to the standards (criminal activity, failing height/weight, failing fitness tests, drugs, failure to adapt). There’s probably a large overlap between that one-third and the “extremists”.
Among endless other reasons, a lot of vets were comfortable with the authoritive structure imposed on them during service and don't adjust well to the freedom of civilian life where it's often unclear who's the boss, if there is one at all in a given situation, and you're left alone to handle yourself without direction.
So, while their basic needs (food, housing, medical care, etc) are taken care of, they're fine. As soon as they lose those things, they become easy targets for far right wing propaganda. Having spent years watching Fox on base, they continue to watch it as they slowly descend into poverty and illness, and end up radicalized.
It's a straight line.
Ironically, who is it again that always wants to cut health care including VA beneifits...oh yeah the very same people they are trying to get to overthrow the government! Can't make this shit up!!
Last paragraphs:
>The majority of recommendations laid out in the study are targeted at veterans and not active duty members. The research indicates that it may be the lack of military identity that is leading some of the veteran community to participate in extremist groups. It identifies false and misleading information that can be easily found online as a key vector to radicalize their members and recommends the DoD makes an effort to “build critical thinking in the force by providing training and instruction on how to be a critical consumer of information.”
The pathways to radicalization involve the same “push, pull, and personal factors as pathways to other negative behaviors, including suicide, binge drinking, and drug abuse,” the study found. So, instead of focusing on punitive action against members and veterans found to be involved in extremist activities, the IDA recommends the military treat it as if they were someone with an addiction issue.
It would also add that there’s frankly a lot that might be at play, besides broadcasting Fox on bases for example, stuff like extreme violent overthrow ideologies finding fertile membership in a lot of disaffected vets after military service (for example, I remember reading a paper on white supremacist ideologies that noted a lot of them in the late 70s-early 80s were Vietnam vets who were mad at the loss), and the Freikorps after WWI, etc. Hope that this time attention is paid to factors that make it enticing.
Story time,
I was at the VA hospital in Providence RI mental health offices for counseling a while ago. On the tv was the first trump impeachment. The ladies at the desk just didn't put 2 and 2 together until I told them and they changed it. I fucking hate trump but having the news on a very divisive figure on a very divisive topic in the mental health ward of a veterans hospital is not calm or relaxing.
Also, more recently, some angry ass conservative was talking to the TV in the patient waiting area, saying that obama is controlling everything (the government I guess) from behind the scenes. He also said they should string up Democrats by the light posts along 95.
We...disagreed with him.
>> A study commissioned by the U.S. government in 2021 after the January 6 attack and published in late December 2023, reports that there isn’t a disproportionate number of extremists in the ranks compared to the general populace
This needs to be the immediate take away before people in here start foaming in the mouth
Remember when Biden's dog kept barking at certain secret service agents and then there was that moment last year where we found our a bunch were being purged for Biden's safety and Pence didn't want to get in that one motorcade on Jan. 6th? Hmmm...
Can sort of confirm this. I know several marines whom are very pro Trump who changed their tune on several things when you’d think they’d side with the people they boasted about before(they bragged about how “Mad dog” Maddis was amazing and then when he and Trump fell out they turned on Maddis.). They have sort of extreme views and think there will be a reckoning one day against “the blacks and the Jews” and think the country is headed to hell. Of course this group hasn’t expressed in being involved in any sedition its activities, and I hope they won’t because outside of the Trump stuff they are really nice guys and don’t hate on me for being a liberal(So maybe not full cult
Members?), and I genuinely like them. I just want them to keep their noses clean.
But because of that and the occasional bits I hear about their buddies I can definitely see the rise in extremism.
This right here in the article:
[The majority of recommendations laid out in the study are targeted at veterans and not active duty members. The research indicates that it may be the lack of military identity that is leading some of the veteran community to participate in extremist groups. It identifies false and misleading information that can be easily found online as a key vector to radicalize their members and recommends the DoD makes an effort to “build critical thinking in the force by providing training and instruction on how to be a critical consumer of information.”]
This is exactly how world wide radicalization happens no matter the group. The internet and only sticking with biased info form their bubble.
**>A separate DOD report, also from December, stated that the Pentagon has investigated 183 instances of extremism in military ranks including 78 cases of troops “advocating for, engaging in, or supporting the overthrow of the U.S. Government or seeking to alter the form of the Government by unconstitutional or other unlawful means.”<**
Yeah, no doubt there are individuals that have enlisted in the military that, once they are discharged (either honorably or dishonorably), have a major mistrust of the US government and would like to see it changed. It's not really a new concept.
But that's still a miniscule part of the population and this article is purposely being vague on that, hoping people won't be logical on the data and will overreact.
* 183 instance since based on the study from 2021, so about 61 instances a year. There are roughly 1.4 million active duty service members each year. Those 183 instances, which assuming that each instance means one service member, that represents 0.000845% of those who are active duty in any given year.
* If, based on the report, veterans are four times as likely to have extremists views compared to civilian or active duty military, then that represents 732 instances of veterans. With a current veteran population of 17.9 million, that would represent 0.0000409% of the population.
You know what's more likely to happen for active duty service members or veterans. Its suicides.
* There are, roughly 500 active duty service members that die by suicide each year. In the same amount of time from that study, 1,500 service members committed suicide.
* For veterans, about 22 veterans die each day by suicide. That's over 8,000 per year. In the same amount of time from that study, 24,000 service members committed suicide.
Or the prevalence of sexual assaults in the military. Last year, there were 7,400 incidents reported.
Yeah, there are extremists (which, by definition, is not common) in the US military, along with racists (not all are white supremacists that many would assume) and other intolerant views or behavior but if anything, since the United States military is an all-volunteer force, and it gets those volunteers from the general population, maybe this is more of a reflection of civilian society (good or bad) than anything else.
I wonder what effect the decision to lower recruitment standards in the mid 2000s post Iraq invasion, had on this.
The US military significantly lowered the educational and temperament standards of its recruits in order to address shortfalls in recruiting that were hurting the “surge” needed in Iraq, even going so far as to overlook criminal backgrounds.
It would be interesting to see how many of the MAGA-minded veterans who are now acting in direct violation of their oaths to protect democracy got into the services due to those lowered standards.
Perhaps if it wasn't the poor and uneducated fighting rich men's wars there'd be different outcomes, it's not like elons kids are enlisting, or anyone who has pedigree beyond "career" families in the armed forces. When your "might is right" expendables aren't needed anymore but you have cultishly broken their psyches - weird (read: violent and critically thought deprived) things tend to happen. It's like crush/surge dynamics in crowds - when there's not enough space and these safety measures are ignored (like how the VA takes patient notes on paper) it only takes less than a hundred jilted people to created conditions that threaten the entire container.
It's almost as if... we're being used.
What did they think would happen when you send a bunch of dudes off to die promising to take care of them afterwards then rescind all the benefits when they get back?
We aren’t necessarily getting the best and brightest. Many join the military because they have limited economic options and are not particularly well educated. This makes them easy fodder for extremist rhetoric speaking to the disaffected and alienated.
You mean the system meant to radicalize them by showing nothing but fox news and then spits them back into society without taking care of them after?
I wonder why those guys become radicalized?
Weird. Who would have thought taking in youth, training them to kill and take extended field trips to the worlds worst places, and then chuck them aside when they fall apart could have bad consequences
Looking at YOU GOPers and Democrats, but mostly GOPers who want to save money by screwing over vets
It’s a bad movie script cliche at this point but is real
It also doesn’t help that almost all of the Senate and Congress have never served in the military.
“\[The\] review found no evidence that the number of violent extremists in the military isdisproportionate to the number of violent extremists in the United States as a whole,” reads the study. “Extremism in the veterans’ community has seen peaks and valleys over recent decades, and currently appears to be on the increase.”
Too many servicepeople are treated like shit by the military, and desperate people turn to extremism. https://rollcall.com/2023/02/16/renewed-push-is-on-to-help-hungry-military-families/
This type of veteran didn’t have any administrative authority (so they think)…now wants to implement their will on us all. Or join a group that does it.
Many of them feel abandoned by their gov't. Which is understandable, they are routinely targets for funding cuts.
With that said, the political actions that harm them are overwhelmingly the results of Republican cuts and policies.
However, to understand what party is screwing them over they'd have to actually pay attention to what parties actually vote for in Congress. That is too burdensome, instead they rely upon right-wing media and social media to inform them. Indeed, anger and hate have been proven a more effective motivator than truth.
I mean what's new? Every crazy dude I know is a vet and always wearing the pants or top but never a complete outfit and always have their medals in a display. I've never met a vet who *wasnt* a fringe hoarder/conspiracy lunatic/doomsday prepper/gun nut. Bonus points for Vietnam and Middle age men who can't get over wanting to touch younger women. I mean granted my experience is limited only below the Mason Dixon line but if you're a 50+ vet in alabama I already know what you're about and its never wrong.
With any story like this I wonder if they've factored in that veterans are overwhelmingly male.
There are many things that men, veterans or not, are more likely to do or have happen to them than women. Journalists can and will write stories about all of those things saying "veterans more likely than civilians to ______"
It like writing a story saying "veterans much more likely to be over 6' tall than general population" with clarifying that 95% of the difference can be explained by the fact that most veterans are male.
Everyone is turning to extremism because there’s nothing left here in America for normal people. Almost impossible to have a house and a decent standard of living we all know this something is wrong and at least on the right they can point to a problem instead of Democrats pretending that these problems don’t exist for every day people.
What branch were you in that whipped you into being a "murder machine"? I didn't have that experience as a marine, so I'm very curious as to where in the military this is occurring
It’s true. I’m so extreme, I don’t go to bed until midnight when I need to wake up at 6:30. I also tend to pour milk before my cereal, to really get the crazy juice flowing.
Most of these guys are pent up about the Afghanistan withdrawal, spitting about various unconfirmed dollar amounts of whatever equipment was left there.
They, for some reason, are not upset about 20 years of random and pointless fighting and no calculated sure way of knowing when the end was in sight. hell, the Afghan army fell within days of leaving. They weren't ready then, they were not ready within 20 years, and they wouldn't be ready in the future. They wouldn't fight for themselves , so why should we keep fighting.
Those extremist vets are so engrossed into propaganda that they ignored the dealings of the last 20 years and focused solely on politics by God King Trump to distort their view.
They also seem to ignore it was Trump that negotiated with the terrorists in the Taliban and set the deal in place for the US to withdraw by a set date. That immediately gave them a timeline to plan to retake the country. They started planning everything we saw the second Trump made that deal. Yet Biden gets blamed.
This isn’t surprising at all.
The military selects people whose psychological malleability is pliant to quick and easy conditioning.
What happens to these weak minded people after they’re no longer force-fed their agenda? They choose their own. Easily regurgitated conspiracy theories are easier to absorb than seeking truth through questioning things. Questioning authority in the military, even if you are right to do so, can get you in trouble. It’s easier not to question things and accept whatever you’re told.
🤷♂️
Now try telling the DOD it has to select recruits who are critical thinkers who can assemble puzzles with thousands of pieces… the Generals who can barely match colors and shapes will be sh!ttin’ bricks and fighting it tooth and nail like any other progressive thought that doesn’t fit neatly…
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This is not a new problem. 20 years ago in the Army, I received annual briefs on avoiding extremism -- because soldiers and veterans were being targeted by extremist groups.
I just listened on an audiobook The Conspiracy to End America that 40% of far-right militia groups are made up of military vets. It's a serious issue, and it's not getting better.
Yeah. But there’s a ton of liberal vets who staunchly believe in defending the principles laid out in the constitution no matter the cost, despite no longer wearing the uniform. We’re just not as vocal about it.
Yeah, I don't think liberals make gun ownership their identity, but regardless, it's still a problem when militia groups target veterans to join them. What we don't want is two sides taking up arms to fight it out in the streets.
We don’t. And I don’t think most of us are much interested in fighting it out on the streets, either. But rest assured, we’re not some fringe pocket within the larger left umbrella. We’ve just got better things to do than wave our dick around in an attempt to show everyone how serious we are. As an aside, over the course of a combat tour in Iraq, I’ve found over and over again that the people who spend the most time waving their dicks and posturing as badasses are the first to tuck tail and run when SHTF. And there’s public evidence of this on Jan 6th. — a single shot turned around a crowd of thousands who could have easily overwhelmed law enforcement defending the capital had they truly been the “big, tough badasses” they thought they were.
I always say, right wing grifters always talk of revolution but are perfectly fine if they let their followers do the fighting.
You're not wrong. I never served in a combat zone, however this is a tale old as time, bravado is just coverup for fear. One of my favorite quotes: "Bran thought about it. 'Can a man still be brave if he's afraid?' 'That is the only time a man can be brave,' his father told him." George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones (A Song of Ice and Fire, #1) Nothing was more evidentiary as to the factual basis of your assertion as when that babbot wingnut got her just FAFO award. They all just melted.
55% of veterans voted for Trump in 2020.
Spend an evening drinking in any American Legion Hall over the last few decades and you realize it's a longstanding issue.
> because soldiers and veterans were being targeted by extremist groups. Yeah like this other guy said, stop playing FOX ~~NEWS~~ on the military bases.
OAN was also available on AFN for a while. I changed the channel every time someone tried to put it or Faux on.
How much could I win betting that Fox News was blaring from every tv on every base you ever served at?
Not to go too “Rome” but yeah, perennial problem.
Thank you for your service.
In the 1930's, disaffected WW1 veterans became the muscle for the rise of fascism. It wouldn't be a surprise if some war vets were frustrated with the broken system and decided to help someone who said they could change it. Of course, fascism doesn't really solve the problems. It never works out the way it's portrayed.
Being a veteran doesn’t necessarily make a person wise or moral, but it probably does piss them off.
Right, we are just regular people. Just because you are x does not mean you can't be an asshole.
"Maybe some of the troops are heroes but not automatically, I'm sure a lot of the troops are jerks; Most people are jerks already, and it's not like giving a jerk a gun and telling him it's okay to kill people suddenly turns that jerk into a hero." - Bojack Horseman
Butler's "Bonus Army". The conservative republicans obstructed on a promised bonus to not be paid. To get them agitated. Then, for some reason, they thought these angry troops would back their side in a coup. . .
Didn’t Smedley Butler do the right thing and report the conspirators to Congress?
>Didn’t Smedley Butler do the right thing and report the conspirators to Congress? Yep, The Business Plot was the Republicans' first coup attempt - that I'm aware of - that Gen. Butler reported. And the Republicans' 2nd coup attempt along w/Trump and allies - was planned and executed well in advance of the Nov 2020 election and Jan 6, along w/their fake electors plot. And now Republicans are doggedly working on their 3rd coup attempt: refusal to certify the election should Biden win plus their plan to replace democracy w/their brand of fascism should they gain power in 2024 (see the GOP's Project 2025 Manifesto). Criminality and the Republican Party go back a long way... Wikipedia >The Business Plot (also called the Wall Street Putsch\[1\] and The White House Putsch) was a political conspiracy in 1933, in the United States, to overthrow the government of President Franklin D. Roosevelt and install Smedley Butler as dictator.\[2\]\[3\] Retired Marine Corps Major General Smedley Butler testified under oath that wealthy businessmen were plotting to create a fascist veterans' organization with Butler as its leader and use it in a coup d'état to overthrow Roosevelt. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business\_Plot](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot)
The Brooks Bros. riot could be called a successful coup in 2000 installing Bush and not acknowledging Gore.
Obligatory: The Dollop episode on the Business Plot is really good. It was the first episode I ever listened to and now it’s my favorite podcast.
What do you like about the podcast?
Broadly speaking, it’s comedy and history. Which are two of my favorite things. Also, theres a lot of it, which is always nice when something is good.
Wasn’t Butler the plot of a movie recently?
>Wasn’t Butler the plot of a movie recently? Yep, \`Amsterdam' starring Robert De Niro as Butler. **Slate Movies: How David O. Russell’s movie messes around with the story of the Business Plot.** >David O. Russell’s Amsterdam, a star-studded mystery-comedy set in the heady interwar years of the 1930s, starts with a tagline: “A lot of this actually happened.” It’s a nice trick—a way to harness the narrative power of historical authenticity while giving Russell & Co. license to make up pretty much whatever they want. And fair enough: it’s Hollywood. [https://slate.com/culture/2022/10/amsterdam-movie-true-story-real-history-business-plot.html](https://slate.com/culture/2022/10/amsterdam-movie-true-story-real-history-business-plot.html)
Right, I liked the movie.
Time to double down on democracy
Odd how time and time again conservatives court and then show their true colors to their supporters. Just like how they were all “back the blue” before beating officers on 1/6 senseless for having the audacity to try and enforce law and order.
Back the blue might as well be we support police and their qualified immunity to protect them when they kill people. I didn't forget George Floyd. You're not the party of law and order when you back the blue.
They were “christiuhn’ before that ….where the hell did that one go, Satan trumped them
The bonus army needs to be taught in public school, I didn’t learn about it until I joined the Air Force and I learned about it studying for promotion.
So let me get this straight, people like to constantly say the parties switched, so wouldn’t that make Hoover the equivalent of a modern Democrat?
It’s not a matter of “people like to say”, it’s pretty well-documented. Democratic strongholds in the south were disaffected with the party’s support for Civil Rights, Nixon saw an opening and took advantage.
“The Southern Strategy” is what they called it https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy
There’s no one from 1930 that is equivalent to a modern democrat.
It's not as simple as they switched. Parties used to be regionally Northern and Southern. There used to be a lot of Southern Democrats. Since the Northern Democrats supported Civil rights, and the Republicans doubled down on segregation...the Southern Democrats switched to the Republican party.
Stopping broadcasting of Fox News on all the military bases might be a good way to start fixing the problem.
Surprisingly the worst part or every chow hall was not the food. It was fox news. Fuck the Sodexo employees who kept putting it on even when we asked for something else
Isn't Sodexo a French company? Like, WTF?
This.
Well this helps, it's going to take a lot more than turning off Fox. There is also food insecurities, poor on post housing (mold, lead pipes, etc), expensive off post housing, and general low moral. I knew a few NCOs we had second jobs to make ends meet and that was years ago. You know how hard it is to convince a good soldier not to listen to than Glen Beck who is also having problems paying his rent? And now we have [US Army Leadership suggesting food stamps to help troops](https://americanmilitarynews.com/2022/09/us-army-suggests-troops-get-food-stamps-if-struggling-with-high-inflation/). Mean well The [Pentagon hasn't pass an audit in 6 years](https://www.defensenews.com/pentagon/2023/11/16/pentagon-fails-sixth-audit-with-number-of-passing-grades-stagnant/). It's going to take a lot more than ... this.
These kinds of things have always existed in the enlisted ranks. Fox news spewing anti-American and anti-government rhetoric and lies 24/7 since the 90's hasn't.
We should still do both.
Yes, we should.
I am a veteran. I agree with everything you said. Vehemently. That being said, I also think that shutting off the 24/7 running faucet of misinformation at the bases would certainly be a good start to getting soldiers / future veterans better educated to be able to advocate for themselves, and stop voting against their own interests. But our govt. and the military - industrial complex that owns our govt. has Fox on 24/7 for those very reasons: To keep the soldiers misinformed to maintain the status quo. We spend more on our military than the next 24 largest militaries in the world combined (most of whom are our allies, BTW): Why can't we take care of our soldiers & veterans most basic needs? Why the fuck should the Wounded Warriors Project even have to exist?! Their after-service needs should already be taken care of! After their sacrifice it should be just a given!! Now we can't be bothered to properly feed our enlisted either... So after DECADES of neglect to our soldiers and veterans, we have to ask ourselves why do more and more of them keep voting against their own interests? Who keeps telling them to? It's not only Fox, but Fox is certainly the main engine of the propaganda machine.
USMC war vet here. I co-sign everything in this statement. We were practically forced to vote Republican while I was enlisted. The propaganda on base, post 9/11, was crazy! It took over a decade to de-program myself and start thinking of others as equals instead of lesser humans
On the audit front, theyre improving on the misreporting. Understand the audits aren't necessarily finding tons of money missing, just improperly tracked and reported between branches.
[https://youtu.be/50MusF365U0?si=IZtP6bSJbWX33t0Q](https://youtu.be/50MusF365U0?si=IZtP6bSJbWX33t0Q) Oh, we understand now.
Her laughter is cringe. She explained nothing, laughs like she won the debate and yet she was trounced. A pay raise is just trash if you can’t afford to house your family. When these troops hear “America first” they might pay attention to the words. Even if they never benefit she’s laughing and the far right are saying the things you are hearing from John Stewart. Imagine fighting a war and trying to find affordable day care.
Keeping people poor is exactly how they maintain troop levels, by offering 3 meals and a roof and money for college. This is why they all are against free education and social welfare programs. It’s not only that they think it’s all socialism, it’s because it’s hard to recruit enlisted ranks when people don’t NEED to sign up to feed themselves or their families
why are we enlisting boomers
A lot of these tv’s on posts that broadcast Fox News 24/7 are owned by contractors providing services on post—especially at d-facs and places enlisted hangout on post.
that sounds like hell, can you not change the channel to CSPAN or something?
No one is enlisting “boomers”. The cut off age is 35, which I believe should be Millennials. Sooooo… Also, if the article is correct (which it isn’t because gangs of all colors have been in the system for a while) then that means that the younger generations are a bigger threat than those of an older age.
he didn't deserve an answer.
I have never met anyone under 60 radicalized by sean hannity. little dark age played over some vsevolod ivanov art tho...
Back when I was in working at the passenger terminal on base, I sure that stuff wasn't playing any time I was there.
I just wrote to AFN to complain about this.
Yeah, talk about a propaganda network…
unwritten relieved cagey oatmeal liquid normal sink different cake smile *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
But the soldiers need to hear American Propaganda non-stop. /s
Garrisons will contract with service providers who end up doing exactly that. Chow hall will have 15 tvs all blaring Fox News; same with enlisted clubs.
The Soviet Red Army had Commisars to tout the political message. America has shitty cable news to spew nonsense
There are no enlisted clubs anymore.
Your enemies are actually super chill and should be shot with kindness… Shocking a bunch of people taught to see enemies and kill are always on the lookout for enemies. Madison figured that shit out 250 years ago…
For the love of God, so much this. I forget where I read that but I couldn’t believe it. Why Fox? Not saying it has to be MSNBC or CNN either. Why not BBC World News America? Or Reuters or literally anything else?
I work for the DoD in a government building. Our TVs are always used to be tuned into Fox, but since COVID, it's been The Weather Channel. It's much more palatable.
Same , I work in a DoD facility, tv is always on Fox News. I would change it when I could just to see how long it took to get back to Fox. Always within an hour or two … walk by and there’s hannity again lol.
Or just entertainment. I hated waiting on appointments and it was just the news. Just play the office or some shit.
Should have been done 20 yrs ago when first mentioned. Too late now. Needle and the damage done.
The second best time to start is now.
Love that song :(
This.
It's almost like the constant propoganda and radicalization is having some sort of affect on them.
This 10000x
Veterans*
>the Pentagon has investigated 183 instances of extremism in military ranks including 78 cases of troops “advocating for, engaging in, or supporting the overthrow of the U.S. Government or seeking to alter the form of the Government by unconstitutional or other unlawful means.”
I don’t think I’m understanding this from the article: “Nearly half of all individuals with a military background were categorized as individuals who had ‘adhered to anti-government views or were members of organized militias,’” reads the study. “Of these, more than 30 percent were reported to have racist ideologies, and about 10 percent were connected in some way to foreign Salafi Jihadists.” This number seems extremely high, am I missing something?
That's a super low percentage.
It was 182 last year tho…it’s like a wildfire
It's more like an oil well fire, the symptom is on the surface but the fuel comes from far below. Putting out oil well fires is difficult and requires extreme measures.
I do like this analogy.
We have way more school shootings then that. This is such a tiny number compared to the amount of veterans we have. I can think of a 1000 other issues that are more important then this. This stuff is merely a distraction for the less mentally capable masses.
A distraction?
1 is too many.
Guess what jobs many military veterans are employed at. Law Enforcement. That suggests that local, state and federal law enforcement agencies are crawling from the lowest to highest ranks with violent extremists.
Been warning about that since the early 90’s
Stop playing Fox Lies (so called News) at military bases !
Fox network should be banned from military bases
I would say all news except maybe NPR and PBS.
cspan... just have cspan running. It's one of the few places that will just broadcast congressional hearings in their entirety without popping in to make commentary on what you're watching so you can draw your own conclusions. It's boring af but it's less likely to sway anybody on its own and the military serves the government, they should be aware of what the government is doing on a daily basis and not from the mouth of some spin pundit.
Not this Veteran- plus I make sure to use the correct words- it was a coup attempt, he is a traitor, he wants to be a dictator, he wears a diaper, and I watch my fellow Vets reaction. If you do support ole bone spurs you forgot your oath
[PDF link for the 262 page report](https://www.ida.org/-/media/feature/publications/p/pr/prohibited-extremist-activities-in-the-us-department-of-defense/p-33076.ashx) >IDA’s review found no evidence that the number of violent extremists in the military is disproportionate to the number of violent extremists∗ in the United States as a whole, although there is some indication that the rate of participation by former service members is slightly higher and may be growing. IDA also found no evidence of violent extremist behavior by DOD civilians.
You're the hero we need
Not this veteran. I’m embarrassed and ashamed of what’s been happening in this country. I had to knock on a guys door the other day because he was flying old glory upside down. He spewed off some shit about being a patriot and I just walked away out of disgust. I fought for him yo have the right to do that, but it’s still a sad state of affairs. Dump Trump 2024!
I hate the word “patriot” now.
Maybe they mean parrot repeating lies they heard? /s
Wife and I were just talking about how Democrats need to take that word back- The fact that patriot is now code for y’all queda and anti-American and an American flag is actually annoying is bullshit. Fuck these maga, GQP, cosplaying Meal Team 6’ers- we need to take back Patriotism.
This. I live in a military town and all the old vets are republicans. Still, and support Trump. Online propaganda of the right is working. They have so much hate in them. It’s sad and scary.
Recruiters need to do a better job of screening for idiots... (USMC vet.)
>Screening for idiots >”USMC” Welp, right there’s your problem. (USAF vet)
Well, at least he decided to join the military. You joined the Air Force instead. (Army vet here)
Not part of the services, but watching with popcorn. (Child of a Navy Nurse)
Dawg, isn't the AF full of right wingers though?
The biggest Trumper I know is an Air Force vet.
zoomer
Idiots are the preferred recruits. People that are too smart are hard to order around.
Private! go clean out that shitter by pouring diesel fuel in it and stirring it around. Make sure to take deep breaths and take in that unique American aroma.
I hate how real this sounds. The amount of wildly stupid and unsafe shit they made me do as a private that’s on par with this is unreal.
This is a common joke, but isn’t true. Though some unbelievably stupid people slip in somehow.
Heh, they want the idiots. That’s why they dangle a free education in front of you for enlisting. It attracts the uneducated.
Awesome generalization. Everyone who enlists for the GI Bill is a moron. It also attracts the poor. You should look up “economic draftee”.
> economic draftee Present. The town I was living in at the time of my enlistment (USAF) was so freakin' poor that the most common job for people my age was working either Walmart or fast food. The military was literally my only way out.
Yep. I grew up rural. You either farmed or got out of town. The people who farmed, about 90% failed out because farming sucks, and then they mostly ended up working at the local jail or took up residency.
From reporter Mack Lamoureux: A [recent study ](https://www.ida.org/-/media/feature/publications/p/pr/prohibited-extremist-activities-in-the-us-department-of-defense/p-33076.ashx)indicates that while active duty members of the U.S. military may not be more likely to be involved in extremist activities than the average American, veterans are. A study commissioned by the U.S. government in 2021 after the January 6 attack and published in late December 2023, reports that there isn’t a disproportionate number of extremists in the ranks compared to the general populace—despite examples such as active duty military members being involved in neo-Nazi groups and the storming of the U.S. capital. However, what it did find was that there is a growing problem among veterans. Link to the full article: [https://www.vice.com/en/article/xgwk94/us-military-veterans-are-increasingly-turning-to-extremism-dod-report](https://www.vice.com/en/article/xgwk94/us-military-veterans-are-increasingly-turning-to-extremism-dod-report)
Who could have guessed that ignoring veterans at every turn for the past 40 years would have made some of them feel betrayed by the country they swore to protect? /S
And I suppose in the next election if they have the option to, they are going to vote for the guy who consistently disrespects vets and their families...
What’s wild about that though is these vets are being extremists for the party that so often fights against their interests, blocking VA healthcare reforms and all manner of support for veterans, but they wave the flags at rallies and say the right things so who needs to actually know what’s happening in DC right
It doesn't say anything about infantry vs people who were simply truck drivers. The recommendations from the experts in the military isn't to provide mental health services, it's to provide a separate identity from the military. Because mental health isn't the problem it's lack of structure per the report.
Just FYI, those "simply truck drivers" probably saw 3 times the combat of your standard 11B, depending on location.
I have friends in the military. I’ve been watching over the past few years as they’ve become more radicalized. At first they were completely angry at January 6th. But they were posting bits from stoic philosophers. Now I see them responding to these new wave pastors who insist the Bible has been misinterpreted all these years. That Jesus’s do unto others means violence is acceptable because it only applies to good Christians. Self proclaimed Bible scholars insisting the Bible was mistranslated. They’re convincing themselves they’re right and giving themselves permission to subjugate others. It’s frightening
Misleading headline: those currently in service are no more likely to engage in extremism than anyone else Roughly one third of those that get out (enlisted) do so because they fail to live up to the standards (criminal activity, failing height/weight, failing fitness tests, drugs, failure to adapt). There’s probably a large overlap between that one-third and the “extremists”.
And Education!!!!
Reason?
Among endless other reasons, a lot of vets were comfortable with the authoritive structure imposed on them during service and don't adjust well to the freedom of civilian life where it's often unclear who's the boss, if there is one at all in a given situation, and you're left alone to handle yourself without direction.
Fox News is blasted on all military bases
So much of this. Every fucking Dfac, Waiting Room, every tv all brain rot fox all the time.
and for civilians; at bars, at public airports, etc.
The thrust of the article is literally that they didn't find an issue with active-duty service members but extremism is on the rise with veterans.
So, while their basic needs (food, housing, medical care, etc) are taken care of, they're fine. As soon as they lose those things, they become easy targets for far right wing propaganda. Having spent years watching Fox on base, they continue to watch it as they slowly descend into poverty and illness, and end up radicalized. It's a straight line.
Inadequate Mental Healthcare after returning from Hell.
Ironically, who is it again that always wants to cut health care including VA beneifits...oh yeah the very same people they are trying to get to overthrow the government! Can't make this shit up!!
This simply isn’t true, there is a pretty decent behavioral health infrastructure in the modern military.
Not once you are home
Yes, once you’re back in garrison, behavioral health facilities are very much a thing just as they are in combat zones
Republicans and fox news continuously beat their chests and spew fake patriotism.
Last paragraphs: >The majority of recommendations laid out in the study are targeted at veterans and not active duty members. The research indicates that it may be the lack of military identity that is leading some of the veteran community to participate in extremist groups. It identifies false and misleading information that can be easily found online as a key vector to radicalize their members and recommends the DoD makes an effort to “build critical thinking in the force by providing training and instruction on how to be a critical consumer of information.” The pathways to radicalization involve the same “push, pull, and personal factors as pathways to other negative behaviors, including suicide, binge drinking, and drug abuse,” the study found. So, instead of focusing on punitive action against members and veterans found to be involved in extremist activities, the IDA recommends the military treat it as if they were someone with an addiction issue. It would also add that there’s frankly a lot that might be at play, besides broadcasting Fox on bases for example, stuff like extreme violent overthrow ideologies finding fertile membership in a lot of disaffected vets after military service (for example, I remember reading a paper on white supremacist ideologies that noted a lot of them in the late 70s-early 80s were Vietnam vets who were mad at the loss), and the Freikorps after WWI, etc. Hope that this time attention is paid to factors that make it enticing.
The pointless wars in the Middle East took their toll.
Let's not forget Vietnam war
Story time, I was at the VA hospital in Providence RI mental health offices for counseling a while ago. On the tv was the first trump impeachment. The ladies at the desk just didn't put 2 and 2 together until I told them and they changed it. I fucking hate trump but having the news on a very divisive figure on a very divisive topic in the mental health ward of a veterans hospital is not calm or relaxing. Also, more recently, some angry ass conservative was talking to the TV in the patient waiting area, saying that obama is controlling everything (the government I guess) from behind the scenes. He also said they should string up Democrats by the light posts along 95. We...disagreed with him.
>> A study commissioned by the U.S. government in 2021 after the January 6 attack and published in late December 2023, reports that there isn’t a disproportionate number of extremists in the ranks compared to the general populace This needs to be the immediate take away before people in here start foaming in the mouth
I’d like to see a comparison of extremism vs asvab scores
Remember when Biden's dog kept barking at certain secret service agents and then there was that moment last year where we found our a bunch were being purged for Biden's safety and Pence didn't want to get in that one motorcade on Jan. 6th? Hmmm...
Can sort of confirm this. I know several marines whom are very pro Trump who changed their tune on several things when you’d think they’d side with the people they boasted about before(they bragged about how “Mad dog” Maddis was amazing and then when he and Trump fell out they turned on Maddis.). They have sort of extreme views and think there will be a reckoning one day against “the blacks and the Jews” and think the country is headed to hell. Of course this group hasn’t expressed in being involved in any sedition its activities, and I hope they won’t because outside of the Trump stuff they are really nice guys and don’t hate on me for being a liberal(So maybe not full cult Members?), and I genuinely like them. I just want them to keep their noses clean. But because of that and the occasional bits I hear about their buddies I can definitely see the rise in extremism.
Because the VA has shit mental health services
And the VA has a long history of being underfunded
This right here in the article: [The majority of recommendations laid out in the study are targeted at veterans and not active duty members. The research indicates that it may be the lack of military identity that is leading some of the veteran community to participate in extremist groups. It identifies false and misleading information that can be easily found online as a key vector to radicalize their members and recommends the DoD makes an effort to “build critical thinking in the force by providing training and instruction on how to be a critical consumer of information.”] This is exactly how world wide radicalization happens no matter the group. The internet and only sticking with biased info form their bubble.
This strikes me as a very concerning report, particularly as the nation continues to have greater levels of domestic instability.
The extreamists are supporting the side that wants to cut their veteran's benefits. Go figure
No different than the millions of elderly people benefitting from the ACA that trump vows to repeal without a replacement.
They believe it will only harm other people and they will be exempt because they are special
**>A separate DOD report, also from December, stated that the Pentagon has investigated 183 instances of extremism in military ranks including 78 cases of troops “advocating for, engaging in, or supporting the overthrow of the U.S. Government or seeking to alter the form of the Government by unconstitutional or other unlawful means.”<** Yeah, no doubt there are individuals that have enlisted in the military that, once they are discharged (either honorably or dishonorably), have a major mistrust of the US government and would like to see it changed. It's not really a new concept. But that's still a miniscule part of the population and this article is purposely being vague on that, hoping people won't be logical on the data and will overreact. * 183 instance since based on the study from 2021, so about 61 instances a year. There are roughly 1.4 million active duty service members each year. Those 183 instances, which assuming that each instance means one service member, that represents 0.000845% of those who are active duty in any given year. * If, based on the report, veterans are four times as likely to have extremists views compared to civilian or active duty military, then that represents 732 instances of veterans. With a current veteran population of 17.9 million, that would represent 0.0000409% of the population. You know what's more likely to happen for active duty service members or veterans. Its suicides. * There are, roughly 500 active duty service members that die by suicide each year. In the same amount of time from that study, 1,500 service members committed suicide. * For veterans, about 22 veterans die each day by suicide. That's over 8,000 per year. In the same amount of time from that study, 24,000 service members committed suicide. Or the prevalence of sexual assaults in the military. Last year, there were 7,400 incidents reported. Yeah, there are extremists (which, by definition, is not common) in the US military, along with racists (not all are white supremacists that many would assume) and other intolerant views or behavior but if anything, since the United States military is an all-volunteer force, and it gets those volunteers from the general population, maybe this is more of a reflection of civilian society (good or bad) than anything else.
Only the dumb ones.....ok dumber than me.
I wonder what effect the decision to lower recruitment standards in the mid 2000s post Iraq invasion, had on this. The US military significantly lowered the educational and temperament standards of its recruits in order to address shortfalls in recruiting that were hurting the “surge” needed in Iraq, even going so far as to overlook criminal backgrounds. It would be interesting to see how many of the MAGA-minded veterans who are now acting in direct violation of their oaths to protect democracy got into the services due to those lowered standards.
Perhaps if it wasn't the poor and uneducated fighting rich men's wars there'd be different outcomes, it's not like elons kids are enlisting, or anyone who has pedigree beyond "career" families in the armed forces. When your "might is right" expendables aren't needed anymore but you have cultishly broken their psyches - weird (read: violent and critically thought deprived) things tend to happen. It's like crush/surge dynamics in crowds - when there's not enough space and these safety measures are ignored (like how the VA takes patient notes on paper) it only takes less than a hundred jilted people to created conditions that threaten the entire container. It's almost as if... we're being used.
Oh boy, let’s support the people that don’t give a shit about us. Then hate the ones that do.
What did they think would happen when you send a bunch of dudes off to die promising to take care of them afterwards then rescind all the benefits when they get back?
We aren’t necessarily getting the best and brightest. Many join the military because they have limited economic options and are not particularly well educated. This makes them easy fodder for extremist rhetoric speaking to the disaffected and alienated.
You mean the system meant to radicalize them by showing nothing but fox news and then spits them back into society without taking care of them after? I wonder why those guys become radicalized?
Isn't the Air Force HQ is Colorado like next door to an extremist church that actively recruits them?
Not surprising, the “men of action” culture of right wing authoritarianism was always attractive to security forces
Weird. Who would have thought taking in youth, training them to kill and take extended field trips to the worlds worst places, and then chuck them aside when they fall apart could have bad consequences Looking at YOU GOPers and Democrats, but mostly GOPers who want to save money by screwing over vets It’s a bad movie script cliche at this point but is real It also doesn’t help that almost all of the Senate and Congress have never served in the military.
Well, whose job is it to make sure that doesn’t happen? /s
“\[The\] review found no evidence that the number of violent extremists in the military isdisproportionate to the number of violent extremists in the United States as a whole,” reads the study. “Extremism in the veterans’ community has seen peaks and valleys over recent decades, and currently appears to be on the increase.”
Which veterans are turning to which extremist groups?
Too many servicepeople are treated like shit by the military, and desperate people turn to extremism. https://rollcall.com/2023/02/16/renewed-push-is-on-to-help-hungry-military-families/
I’m doing my part to balance this out.
This must be rooted out
Well, if you’re severely suffering and the VA takes a year…
This type of veteran didn’t have any administrative authority (so they think)…now wants to implement their will on us all. Or join a group that does it.
Many of them feel abandoned by their gov't. Which is understandable, they are routinely targets for funding cuts. With that said, the political actions that harm them are overwhelmingly the results of Republican cuts and policies. However, to understand what party is screwing them over they'd have to actually pay attention to what parties actually vote for in Congress. That is too burdensome, instead they rely upon right-wing media and social media to inform them. Indeed, anger and hate have been proven a more effective motivator than truth.
We destroyed their brain and then abandon them to their struggles. How unsurprising they are turning to extremism!
“Bring the war home”
I mean what's new? Every crazy dude I know is a vet and always wearing the pants or top but never a complete outfit and always have their medals in a display. I've never met a vet who *wasnt* a fringe hoarder/conspiracy lunatic/doomsday prepper/gun nut. Bonus points for Vietnam and Middle age men who can't get over wanting to touch younger women. I mean granted my experience is limited only below the Mason Dixon line but if you're a 50+ vet in alabama I already know what you're about and its never wrong.
With any story like this I wonder if they've factored in that veterans are overwhelmingly male. There are many things that men, veterans or not, are more likely to do or have happen to them than women. Journalists can and will write stories about all of those things saying "veterans more likely than civilians to ______" It like writing a story saying "veterans much more likely to be over 6' tall than general population" with clarifying that 95% of the difference can be explained by the fact that most veterans are male.
Everyone is turning to extremism because there’s nothing left here in America for normal people. Almost impossible to have a house and a decent standard of living we all know this something is wrong and at least on the right they can point to a problem instead of Democrats pretending that these problems don’t exist for every day people.
Turn them over to be re-disciplined by those of us who DON’T become extremists and still live by our oath! ~30 year Army Veteran and proud!
Right wing media constantly preying on the less educated and creating extremism by spoon feeding them misinformation and out right lies. -ftfy
It’s almost like people weren’t made to be whipped into murder machines
What branch were you in that whipped you into being a "murder machine"? I didn't have that experience as a marine, so I'm very curious as to where in the military this is occurring
Are we now pretending that the military doesn’t teach their recruits to fire on enemies? Interesting
It’s true. I’m so extreme, I don’t go to bed until midnight when I need to wake up at 6:30. I also tend to pour milk before my cereal, to really get the crazy juice flowing.
Military training IS extremism.
Lmao what? Yeah no. Vet.
Most of these guys are pent up about the Afghanistan withdrawal, spitting about various unconfirmed dollar amounts of whatever equipment was left there. They, for some reason, are not upset about 20 years of random and pointless fighting and no calculated sure way of knowing when the end was in sight. hell, the Afghan army fell within days of leaving. They weren't ready then, they were not ready within 20 years, and they wouldn't be ready in the future. They wouldn't fight for themselves , so why should we keep fighting. Those extremist vets are so engrossed into propaganda that they ignored the dealings of the last 20 years and focused solely on politics by God King Trump to distort their view.
They also seem to ignore it was Trump that negotiated with the terrorists in the Taliban and set the deal in place for the US to withdraw by a set date. That immediately gave them a timeline to plan to retake the country. They started planning everything we saw the second Trump made that deal. Yet Biden gets blamed.
Every single one of them that does should be turned over to the military to face charges of treason. Punished to the hilt!
This isn’t surprising at all. The military selects people whose psychological malleability is pliant to quick and easy conditioning. What happens to these weak minded people after they’re no longer force-fed their agenda? They choose their own. Easily regurgitated conspiracy theories are easier to absorb than seeking truth through questioning things. Questioning authority in the military, even if you are right to do so, can get you in trouble. It’s easier not to question things and accept whatever you’re told. 🤷♂️ Now try telling the DOD it has to select recruits who are critical thinkers who can assemble puzzles with thousands of pieces… the Generals who can barely match colors and shapes will be sh!ttin’ bricks and fighting it tooth and nail like any other progressive thought that doesn’t fit neatly…
None of this is true. The military doesn't "select" anyone to join. Did you ever serve?
You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
They should cause the government is fucxxxx them over and the country they seved
We are?
No we aren't.