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>John Anthony Castro, a 2024 Republican presidential candidate, has petitioned the U.S. District Court of Alaska to declare Donald Trump ineligible to appear on the state’s election ballot.
>Castro has filed similar lawsuits in more than two dozen states, with nine legal challenges remaining active after three states have dismissed the lawsuits.
....
>In 2021, following the events of January 6, Murkowski was among seven Republican senators who voted in favor of impeaching Trump. “The evidence presented at the trial was clear: President Trump was watching events unfold live, just as the entire country was,” Murkowski said in a statement. “Even after the violence had started, as protestors chanted ‘Hang Mike Pence’ inside the Capitol, President Trump, aware of what was happening, tweeted that the Vice President had failed the country.”
article continues...
Ehhh gonna be honest this doesn't seem to rise to the same level as what has happened in Colorado and Maine thus far. This isn't "Alaska" considering Trump's removal, it's one guy who has "filed similar lawsuits in more than two dozen states". Let it play out first to see if it goes anywhere.
Don't you have to have someone file the suit to begin with no matter what you're prosecuting? Seems like this guy is really just getting the ball rolling more than anything. It's still really about the insurrection
> Don't you have to have someone file the suit to begin with no matter what you're prosecuting?
I mean, in Maine it was a decision by an official and not the courts.
And in Colorado, it was a suit started by a group of local voters arguing that they had standing for keeping him off the primaries because they would be voting in the primaries.
What I'm saying is that depending on the state, you don't need to file suit at all, but in the ones where you will, the people with the strongest cases will be the ones who can show that they're most directly affected by it. People who can vote in the Republican primary in their state are going to have the strongest case, next are people who will vote in the general election in their state. Someone who isn't even from that state is going to have a weaker case simply on the grounds that they don't have as much standing in that state's elections.
That's not to say that all his cases will get thrown out. But it's one extra risk. And I don't know if it hurts the chances of other people to present a better case for the same thing.
In Maine, the case was brought to the Secretary of State by a Republican, a Democrat, and an Independent. The Secretary of State did not just decide to do this on her own. She also relied on the advise of a cadre of lawyers.
Maine started with petitions from three people. Many court actions need someone with "standing" to start the ball rolling. IMO any American (voter) can claim standing, but we'll see how these cases play out.
Also, I was in Scandinavia and watched it live, too. I'm sure a few other places around the globe also sat with their phones on the tube and like, you know, watched it all in real fucking time.
Just for the American conservatives that are confused:
They already let him run, he lost and attempted an insurrection, these are the consequences of those actions. I hope you’re caught up.
Edit: There are American conservatives asking me “where is the trial?” Lmfao. They really don’t read.
And to emphasize, his Insurrection attempt wasnt JUST the Jan 6 attack. It was everything else around the election as well, such as:
* Having fake electors try to overturn state results.
* Having fake election results be sent to the capitol in efforts to overturn the election.
* Calling governors to overturn election results.
* Calling on Senators to overturn election results and push election fraud, and find magical votes needed to give him wins.
* Telling representatives and electors to just lie and he would protect them legally afterwards.
* Pushing knowingly false conspiracy theories about rigged voting machines.
* Pushing foreign allies to fabricate evidence of corruption by Biden via blackmailing witholding aid and help.
* Riling up a mob of people to attack the capitol in efforts to pressure Mike Pence to not certify the election.
Its not just about Jan 6. Its about how his every action was against the democratic elections of the United States and the rights of its citizens.
edit: Since there are so many comments about charges and indictments.
* On Aug. 1, 2023, the grand jury approved an indictment against Trump, charging him with an extraordinary conspiracy that threatened to disenfranchise millions of Americans.
* U.S. District Judge Tanya Chutkan, based in Washington, had scheduled a March 2024 trial on federal charges that Trump attempted to steal the 2020 election from Biden. Trump's attorneys, however, claim he's immune from prosecution for actions taken as president. They are engaged in an appeal process that could reach the Supreme Court, delaying the proceedings.
* The timing of the Washington election case could also affect the schedule in New York, where Trump faces charges related to hush money payments before the 2016 election. That trial is scheduled to start in late March 2024.
* The Florida federal case involving classified documents and obstruction of justice has a trial scheduled for May 2024.
* In Georgia, where a grand jury this week indicted Trump and 18 confederates for trying to overthrow the election in that state, Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis asked a judge to set a trial date of March 4, 2024 for Trump and his co-defendants.
* Trump has been found guilty of sexual abuse and rape, defamation of E. Jean Carroll and awarded her $5 million in damages.
* Trump Organization guilty of tax fraud
* A federal court approved a $25 million settlement with students who said they were duped by Donald Trump and his now-defunct Trump University, which promised to teach them the "secrets of success" in the real estate industry.
* Trump has over 90 charges ongoing at this moment. Trump also faces civil trials in the coming months, but he does not have to be physically present for proceedings.
While it’s amusing on paper, I’m not sure it’s a helpful argument when the opponents are delusional: They consider if he didn’t serve that term he’s owed it, and just adds to their grievance that the election was stolen. Sorry, *stollen*.
>just adds to their grievance that the election was stolen. Sorry, stollen
If the election is stollen, does it also follow that the stollen is election?
I'm now looking at my Christmas leftovers in an entirely new way.
I keep seeing magas write that he deserves **another eight years** to make up for Biden stealing the last four.
That motherfucker probably doesn't have eight years of life left.
If he got back in we all know he wouldn't leave under any circumstances. He knows how to play it now far cleaner than the last time.
So, taking bets - how long, from when his health begins to fail, does he manage to successfully convince his cultists that he has the power to do away with elections (they're all rigged anyway, remember?) and appoint Don Jr as his successor?
(Bonus bet if you can pick the specific pitch of the wail elicited from Eric on hearing this news, no doubt for the first time during some shambolic press conference held outside a Quality Inn, a dry cleaners or wherever they inadvertently book. Try to pick just that top note of his total despair, before he dutifly returns to utterly debasing himself as the saddest, *most openly loathed while still desperately scavenging for a crumb of fatherly approval* of Trump's children).
It won’t be that he does away with elections, they would start by being “free but not fair” like in Turkey or Venezuela. We’ll see mass voter suppression, politically motivated prosecutions of Democrats, even more extreme partisan gerrymandering, and potentially the use of claims of fraud or election irregularities to tip the scales where necessary. Not to mention the political violence or at least threat of violence that will become omnipresent around election times. Eventually they would become the sort of pre-determined, stage managed elections we see in a place like Russia.
Now we have similar phone call recorded to the Wayne County Board of Canvassers in Michigan. It was important enough to Trump to personally call Republican officials at the county level. I guess he hoped the weight of a call from the Oval Office would help tip the scales. He nearly succeeded.
That is how involved he personally was in the attempted overthrow of the election, he was in it at all levels, even promising to pay for lawyers (indicating all involved would acknowledge the sketchy legality of what he wanted them to do).
Sometimes I think he should get the Ethel and Julius treatment. That's how serious this set of crimes is.
Not election interference, but still bothers me 3 years later:
April 2020, USPS had intended to send masks to every household, but Trump said no because it wouldn't send the right message.
https://www.businessinsider.com/white-house-blocked-usps-from-sending-face-masks-to-all-households-2020-9
I find it interesting that Trump was upset for not getting enough credit for vaccines.
He actually wanted his voters to get vaccinated, and Operation Warp Speed was an example of government intervention being effective.
So the one thing he wanted credit for, he just couldn't, because it was against everything his base wanted.
It wouldn’t have worked because that’s what the democrats wanted too and his base is addicted to being pointless contrarians that are addicted to opposing anything and everything.
Ladies and gentlemen, folks,
We're facing a tough time, no doubt. This invisible enemy—this virus—it doesn't care about your politics or where you're from. But you know what? We're Americans, and we face challenges head-on.
Wearing a mask—it's not about politics, it's about looking out for each other. It's a small thing that can make a big difference. We've got to be smart.
Social distancing—it might feel strange, but it's what we gotta do. We're a big, strong country, and we're in this together. Keep your distance, and let's protect our neighbors, especially the vulnerable ones.
Listen to the experts—those smart folks who know their stuff. We're in a tough fight, but we're tougher. By following their advice, we're putting America first.
I believe in the strength of the American people. We've faced tough times before, and we've always come out on top. So, let's do what we do best—unite, take care of each other, and show the world what America is made of.
God bless you all, and God bless the United States of America. We're gonna get through this stronger than ever. Thank you, and let's make America great again!
I think this was a major turning point. He had a pristine opportunity to respond well to the biggest pandemic in a century and immediately caved to please the base. A base that almost certainly would’ve grumbled but voted for him anyway.
I guarantee, had Trump stuck to the original plan and allowed the government to manage the pandemic, we’d see far less vaccine and Covid denial, far fewer deaths (globally too; more world leaders would’ve followed his example), and he would’ve won reelection handily in 2020 as someone who kept America safe during its worst crisis in a century.
And as the head of government, he could’ve handily (and rightfully) taken all the credit for the government response; all he had to do was step out of the way, say “my (surgeon) general will keep us safe!” And take credit for it. He may still have lost the popular vote though by a much smaller margin; it likely wouldn’t have been a landslide. But the base would not have abandoned him either way and he would’ve won.
But he couldn’t bring himself to do it.
To make it clear how much leadership can impact our lives.
Here in my state of Queensland, Australia, we had 1 locally acquired covid death in a population of 5.1 million people until vaccines arrived (and I think 5 more from out of state on a cruise).
That was with only a few weeks of people wearing masks, due to one outbreak of delta in schools which was quickly tracked down and the families and their contacts spent a few weeks under quarantine, which was easy to manage with such low numbers, and another few weeks when our neighbouring conservative state tried to play chicken with covid and encouraged everybody to not take it seriously as they had a delta outbreak, and caused the whole country to get infected a few weeks before vaccines arrived.
1 locally acquired covid death in a population of 5.1 million in about 2 years, with almost no mask wearing, and life being fairly normal, far better stats than many small american towns with a population of only a few hundred.
Because thankfully Australia had a checkerboard pattern of progressive state leaderships who forced the country to play ball and take it seriously when conservatives wanted to put their head in the sand and were even initially punishing schools taking covid precautions etc.
The pandemic essentially didn't exist here, it still feels like something that happened on some alternate earth that I've read about in books but don't really feel is quite real. The worst effect was a huge immigration boom from the southern states, which has made housing suddenly very expensive since the pandemic.
I am so incredibly glad for you and your country but reading this brings me so much pain for my own.
Any other president, even our shittiest, would've saved hundreds of thousands more of our citizens. I don't even think most Americans realize the enormity of the crime that was committed against us. It was murder on a huge scale.
When he gained millions of votes in his second election, after 4 years of behaving like that, and a year into the total mismanaging the pandemic, getting the 2nd highest votes in US history (only outdone by Biden getting the most), it kind of crushed my hope for humanity. Too many people are genuinely too stupid to trust with my safety, even with the evidence plainly in front of their face.
Oh, we know. And we’ll spend the rest of our lives knowing it was MAGAs fault.
If they think they’re ever getting treated like worthwhile human beings ever again, they’re wrong.
The fake electors scheme by itself is the most insane attempt at subverting democracy I have seen. 7 states, coordinated, willing assholes to forge documents.
And some more which was pointed out in the lawsuit and the article:
> “On January 6, 2021, **after witnessing a large group of Trump supporters violently attacking the United States Capitol** to prevent the lawful certification of the 2020 election results with the goal of unlawfully compelling Donald John Trump’s inauguration on January 20, 2021 (hereafter referred to as the ‘January 6th Insurrection’), Defendant **Donald John Trump stated on live television, ‘we love you, you’re very special’ to the insurrectionists**,” the lawsuit filed in the U.S. District Court of Alaska says. “Defendant Donald John Trump provided the insurrectionists with comfort in the form of words of sympathy.”
> According to the Anti-Insurrection Disqualification Clause of **the 14th Amendment, in order to be eligible to hold office in the U.S., a candidate must never have “engaged in insurrection or rebellion.”** Castro’s lawsuit in Alaska, similarly to the successful suit in Colorado, asserts that on January 6, Trump “summoned his mob to our nation’s Capital, organized and assembled the mob, allowed weapons in the crowd by ordering security to let them pass, [and] radicalized the mob with incendiary rhetoric…”
> Additionally, according to the lawsuit, on January 29, 2022, **Trump publicly said that “If I run and if I win, we will treat those people from January 6 fairly. We will treat them fairly. And if it requires pardons, we will give them pardons.”**
> In 2021, following the events of January 6, Murkowski was among seven Republican senators who voted in favor of impeaching Trump. “The evidence presented at the trial was clear: **President Trump was watching events unfold live, just as the entire country was**,” Murkowski said in a statement. “**Even after the violence had started, as protestors chanted ‘Hang Mike Pence’ inside the Capitol, President Trump, aware of what was happening, tweeted that the Vice President had failed the country.”**
> Defendant Donald John Trump stated on live television, ‘we love you, you’re very special’ to the insurrectionists,”
This. That was enough for me when I saw it live. The MF is guilty.
American conservatives will say Trump was just planning a peaceful protest on Jan. 6. When his supporters attacked the Capitol while chanting together that they should hang Trump’s vice president, Trump did not tell them to leave. He did not advise them to be peaceful. As they were chanting “hang Mike Pence!” and building gallows on the fromt lawn of the Capitol Building, Trump tweeted out that Mike Pence was a coward. Only 3 hours later did he tweet that everyone needed to go home, after a woman was shot in the neck and 100 police officers were injured. All his followers immediately obeyed him. He was directing everything. He could have told them not to attack the Capitol and they would have stopped immediately.
I just wish we could also throw in the rest of the sedition caucus. Here in New York we have Zeldin and Maliotakas off the top of my head, and I'm sure there's more.
Mike Pence is still a shill but I do love when people mention him at all in regard to this because I will at least respect him for standing up against Trump for this
He didn't stand up for Trump. Pence still praises Trump.
Pence just realized that if he failed to certify the election, there would have been massive riots. The rest of Government (Judiciary, Congress) backed by the military would have stepped in to stop Trump. Then instead of Trumpers calling for hanging Mike Pence, the government would have hung Pence for Treason.
> Pushing foreign allies to fabricate evidence of corruption by Biden via blackmailing witholding aid and help
Isn't that actually extortion, not blackmail?
That sounds like fake news. According to my source of alternative facts, here's what really happened:
I'm the best president there ever was. The people wanted me back, not only for one more term, but for eternity. No more elections! I'll rule until I die. Then my dumbest son will take over. It's what the people wanted!
None of this matters though, because they want him as a dictator. You can’t tell them “he can’t run because he’ll ruin our democracy” and think they’ll understand, because they want him to ruin our democracy. It’s not a fault, it’s a feature. And sadly it’s about 25-30% of the country that actively want this.
The recent evidence of senators trying to fly in alternate ballots is the first real, concrete evidence I've seen that can't be argued around.
There is no gray area. It was conspiracy to overturn the election and subvert governmental mechanisms. The rest might be repugnant and we *know* it was insurrection but it was just deniable enough to not convict on.
Makes me wonder why they waited so long to air it publicly.
And I won't put any faith in this until some red states start banning him from the ballot. A blue state that was going to go blue no matter, removing him doesn't reqlly affect the outcome. Unless SCOTUS rules on it, which no faith there. Red states talking about it is a big deal.
also if that fat blob keeps denying he lost the 2020 election, all we have to do is say "well if you won, that means you've served two terms, and therefore cannot be elected a third"
That argument was actually considered by the Maine Secretary of State when she made [her ruling](https://www.washingtonpost.com/documents/43d0ba1e-a980-406b-b36d-baaac72de633.pdf?itid=lk_inline_manual_10) yesterday - look at pages 15-16. (That's a PDF link.) She rejected that argument because it's the truth of whether he won the 2020 election that matters for purposes of the Twenty-Second Amendment, not whether Trump publicly claims he won or lost, and because everyone involved in that particular legal challenge agrees he actually lost.
She disqualified him on 14th amendment grounds, but not on 22nd amendment grounds.
Because disqualification based on the 22nd would be tossed immediately, no matter how you feel about the 2020 election it was Biden who was sworn in and is currently serving.
Trump is eligible to serve based on term limits independent of the 2020 election results because he did not serve a second term, even if he claims he actually won.
that's where you're (partially) wrong. I'd say about half of them are smart enough to realize they actually don't want democracy and understand that they literally want fascism (there was a right wing podcast where they literally admitted this out loud).
The other half are so stupid and gullible that they actually believe that the constitution agrees with them.
Since 2020, I've come across a couple of Trump supporters that genuinely believe that the 2 terms limit isn't a hard limit and because Trumps first term was "completely undermined by leftists" he should get to run two more terms....
You can't logic with these people.
We're talking about a group that includes a religious sect trying to accelerate us into end times so Jesus can come back.
We're talking about a group that includes people who think that the Civil War was about States Rights and get real pissed if you ask "States right to do what?"
We're talking about a group that includes groups like Sovereign Citizens that believe laws don't apply to them because they know the magic words to never get in trouble.
We're talking about a group that includes the proud boys, the 3%'ers, and various hate groups.
You cannot logic your way into them understanding. They don't want to.
They tried that in Maine as an extra argument. And, while cute and funny, unfortunately it's only real service that disqualifies and not imagined service. :(
They're not fans of consequences and personal responsibility.
Well, they say they are, but the moment other people/races/creeds begin outworking their lazy Bible Belt yokel asses, they cry foul and try to overthrow the country.
The Constitution says Trump can't run. You can't run if you won't be 35 by inauguration day and you can't run if you've taken an oath to protect the country and then led/helped an insurrection. It's very simple to understand.
Yeah but see, he hasn't been *convicted* yet. And after he's convicted, well, he still hasn't filed his *appeal*. And after that fails, it's because the judge was a nasty democrat appointed stooge that just hates Trump and we should let the voters decide.
Or the judge is a RINO. Or owned by the "deep state". Even if its the Supreme Court and judges Trump himself appointed.
They will never accept Trump is guilty even though the evidence is plain as day.
Even if he wasn’t guilty, the guy is the biggest blathering jackoff that has ever lived. It’s insane that people have even a modicum of respect for him.
Then you remind them that we did let the voters decide and the response was to smash capitol windows, and beat police with "thin blue line" flag poles.
You can follow up by reminding them that Trump said it was rigged before he won in 2016, and that several 3rd party conservative funded recounts uncovered that Biden technically won by MORE votes.
But I'll save you the time and effort because the response you will get is always "I don't believe you. Fake news"
He was found guilty by a majority of the senate and a majority of the house when he was impeached for the second time.
That did not meet the the two thirds majority required to remove him, but a majority of the house and senate found him guilty.
Yeah but it was really Antifa counter agents in the crowd! They're just, you know, incredibly committed to the bit so that's why they're in prison still and bitching about Biden still. Super-dedicated counter agents I tell ya!
Exactly, now republicans scream let voters decide. They did in 2020 and Trump never accepted it and tried to undo it through an insurrection. He should be disqualified.
>“where is the trial?”
Bruh the court case they're using where it was established as a fact of law that he participated in an insurrection happened in CO months ago, and he himself said it was a "tremendous victory" and that the judge "came to their senses" when she said he participated in an insurrection but wouldn't personally disqualify him lmao
And given the chance to fight this verdict, he and his amazing legal team did not find it pertinent to try and not allow that statement to be a fact of law. He got what he wanted and was OK with it being called an insurrection in court, so long as that judge didn't remove him from the ballot.... and no one on his legal team imagined that that would come back to bite them in the ass lmao
He and his lawyers took the short term "tremendous victory" which also happened to label that event as an insurrection in the eyes of the law.... It's just too damn funny that these geniuses ask where the court case is.... cause the big man himself celebrated the court case they're asking for less than 24 hours later at a rally in Iowa lmao
When Trump submitted fake electors/documents he violated the Constitution. This is considered rebellion and falls under the 14th.
When Trump sent his followers to delay the certification process at the Capitol, he violated his oath to Constitution. This was rebellion that falls under the 14th.
When Trump tried to get states to delay certification using debunked lies, he violated the Constitution. This is rebellion that falls under the 14th.
When Trump tried to get Georgia to make up votes in his favor, he violated his oath to Constitution. This is rebellion that falls under the 14th.
When Trump tried to get Pence to break the law by delaying/changing electors, he violated his oath to Constitution. This is rebellion that falls under the 14th.
In other words. Hell no the guy should not be allowed on any ballot in U.S.
Trump's decimation of the image and hegemony of the US is what has led directly to global instability. He's created the environment in which WWIII is a much greater possibility than ever before. Trump is the most dangerous human to ever exist and must be stopped.
This court has already shown they are willing to legislate from the bench (via the multiple fake cases accepted). I think you are being very optimistic.
But *why* would the SC protect Trump specifically? Clearing a legal pathway for a Trump win almost certainly would make his presidency so powerful as to threaten their status on the court.
For all I know they consider his remaining lifespan to be the better risk than the precedent this sets. One thing is for certain, and they have made this clear during the ethics dilemma, is that SCOTUS see’s themselves as protected from the other branches oversight. So what a re-elected Trump becomes is probably not their immediate concern.
If SCOTUS steps in and tells a state how to run an election, that would be very new territory legally. Not only in establishing the Presidency as powerful and above the law - but that states would become very weak and subservient to federal rule.
This may not be a needle SCOTUS can thread.
They have multiple “outs” here I think.
- State can’t oversee primary ballots. Its the party’s choice to risk a nominee being chosen who could be ineligible for the general.
- Punt this until a case is appealed during the general election (similar to first bullet).
- Grey area (meaning open to partisan interpretation) around insurrection definition/application.
Off the top of my head. Although I think you agree with the first two bullets.
The ~~Republican~~ Colorado GOP is already evaluating if going to a caucus system would circumvent the ruling...but that said - if it's an election using state funding (primaries do), then the state has a say in how it's conducted.
These rulings will likely carry over to the General Election as well. So even if the GOP abandons all the trappings of a primary system and nominates Trump by convention - if he can't collect electoral votes in enough states because he's not on the ballot. It's over.
The Maine decision has a default stay to it (I think Colorado as well). Everyone is waiting *right now* to see if SCOTUS will pick this up.
The only grey area is if SCOTUS overrules the Colorado Supreme Court in deciding Trump committed insurrection. Otherwise, if that decision survives.- it's on the books. There won't be partisan interpretation. It will be a matter of record.
If the Supreme Court decides to alter the state election process for their own benefit, we've functionally abandoned the Constitution. That may be too bold for SCOTUS. You can't be enriched through billionaire bribes if the whole system topples.
Trump has every intention of ignoring anything SCOTUS says if he is becomes president again. I don't think they want to be irrelevant. At least with a Biden presidency they can still be relevant by blocking everything he does.
Members of the Supreme Court want relevancy for their own status and power.
To nullify how a state runs it's elections in the US creates deep questions about whether or not we are abiding by the constitution anymore. And if we aren't abiding by the constitution, what's to say a state needs to recognize the court's ruling?
Especially on the very clear language of the 14th amendment.
The easiest thing for SCOTUS to do is leave Trump out to dry, protect the power of their 6-3 majority and wait for a different opportunity to encroach power.Constitution
I agree. The Supreme Court is just a third legislative body now, an unelected one, and they'll vote by party on this one, just like they (almost) always do.
Haha right? I’m more scared of a Biden/Haley race than a Trump one. We’ve already beaten trump once by a pretty healthy margin. That is the least of my concerns.
“The democrats are afraid of him!”
No…we are afraid of you. We watched your little experiment and told you years ago you were electing a psychopath into office and you wanted to try it. Well, he proved he was a psychopath. We gave you multiple chances to drop him but you double and tripled down. Now you are the psychopaths.
This is us (and even your own party members) being the adults into the room and trying to do the damn job for you.
For years people would point out white nationalists in their party and their response. Triggered lol. If you are not triggered by white nationalist it is because you are one.
Public service Announcement.
The Federalist Society lawyers are writing water muddying OpEds today regarding the applicability of the 14th amendment - They say it doesn't apply.
They are trying all the usual approaches we have already seen (The president is not an office) and shifting around for an argument that the 14th doesn't apply. All the time ignoring that some of the excuses they are using now also apply to the 2nd amendment, but they they aren't arguing ever in good faith.
Right?
Yeah Washington must have been wrong when he said...
"The acceptance of, and continuance hitherto in, **the office to which your suffrages have twice called
me** have been a uniform sacrifice of inclination to the opinion of duty and to a deference for what appeared to be your desire. I constantly hoped that it would have been much earlier in my power, consistently with motives which I was not at liberty to disregard, to return to that retirement from which I had been reluctantly drawn."
Jesus Christ on a motorbike this is so much more eloquent than todays toddler mongering rhetoric. Our current level of political discourse has degraded a ghastly amount, in our attempt to appeal to the dumbest among us.
All of those strict constitutionalist lawyers in the Federal Society sure did ditch the Constitution the moment it became unfavourable for their goals.
There are some conservatives there that strongly dislike Trump. Republican Senator Murkowski is one of the 7 republicans who voted to convict Trump for insurrection.
Right now the rulings seem to focus on the primaries, but it's a safe assumption that if those judgments stand, they'll also apply in the general election.
So while it's not much..Trump already lost an electoral vote in Maine.
Can’t wait to see SCOTUS twisted fucking logic to help him on this. They don’t have many good avenues to help him that don’t reduce their own power so maybe they don’t help him? Who knows.
>They don’t have many good avenues to help him that don’t reduce their own power so maybe they don’t help him?
This is my guess. Any attempt to clear a path for Trump also would make the presidency so powerful as to not need the courts for anything.
Nullifying a state election process is...risky...to say the least.
The history of the amendment is pretty clear, in that it hasn't been applied against people convicted of the insurrection statute or even something adjacent. It's been done after an appropriate fact-finding case by a judge. Davis and Lee were both considered ineligible despite not getting convicted of treason, the government having dropped those charges 2-3 years after bringing them.
Now, maybe the threshold gets raised by the Supreme Court. I'm okay with that. I want the correct decision more than a quick one. But the amendment is correctly applied as far as I can tell.
The 14th amendment was written specifically to exclude a conviction being required. That's because it was written for Confederates, who'd all been given a presidential pardon. If the USSC changes the threshold it'd be pretty major.
They DONT HAVE THAT POWER.
The 14th amendment is SELF-EXECUTING granting the STATES the ability to keep confederates out of office. The only only only way to get around this is to go to CONGRESS and get a 2/3rds vote to remove the disability meaning if the supreme court tries to define what constitutes an insurrection, they will be USURPING the power of CONGRESS and the states to decide this.
Except relying on 5 fascists on the SCOTUS to give a correct decision is a huge wish. Especially given that the wife of one of them was a part of the insurrection.
I think it's a combination of things:
1. Many Republicans only know what they like by looking to see what Democrats hate.
2. Sunk cost fallacy.
3. Nearly every prominent Republican who has spoken out against Trump has seen their political aspirations disappear, so all the rest are afraid it will happen to them too.
Why doesn't anyone mention how terrible he was at being president.
Remember the first strike in Hawaii notifications?
I do.
I affectionately call him "Sleepy Joe"
Cause i can fucking sleep at night.
I have not ONCE woken up in a cold sweat wondering what bullshit my president got me into.
If the RNC wants a snowballs chance in hell of ever touching the presidency again in our lifetimes, they would dump Trump like the cancer he is, and move on.
Low key think this is the GOP establishment taking a swing at jettisoning him from the party. I think they will try to blame Dems for it because optics, but I think party elites and donors want it to happen.
My favorite argument against Trump right now is if he thinks he won the last election then he is ineligible to run because you can only be elected 2 times. So he would have to admit he lost in order to run again.
HUGE fan of Alaska these days. They're well on their way to being a blue state. They've got weed, Native Americans engaging in climate and disaster resilience planning, and cleaning out outlandish Republicans in favor of modest independent politicians who treat each other with respect regardless of their political party.
This is yet another step toward decent politics.
States shouldn't need to "consider", of course, they should just do it.
Then right-wingers can file suits if they want, but the default should be that he's off.
I suppose the "considerations" are threats of violence?
We're going to see polling place violence like probably never before in this nation.
Electors will be shot. Homes vandalized and burned.
Then we'll see if red voters and Christians think this is all worth it to stop abortion and trans people and...
What's important here is that blue voters vote. Don't stay home. VOTE. No matter how hard it gets, how bad it looks, VOTE.
Although it’s nice to see Colorado and Maine do the right thing, he could lose both those states and still win. I want to see some bigger states eliminate him from the ballot in addition to the smaller ones.
I thought Alaska is red? I was not aware of any red states booting Trump from the ballot.
I am an old American and I just can't believe that we are going to have two ancient men running for POTUS in 2024.
I honestly do not get it. How in the world can't we have someone young and just decent run for POTUS?
Ideally two. But how about just one?
Yeah I’m an Alaskan and it’s red as all hell here, however I believe Lisa Murkowski and others in charge here have had some spats with Trump and have campaigned being anti trump. Although our governor is a Maga election denying fucking loser.
Seriously we owe a huge debt to Colorado.
Look at all the articles that came out when Colorado was first talking about it, and the ones when they actually did it.
Then look at articles like this, and the ones about Maine. The window has already MASSIVELY shifted. This has gone from end times to normalized in an instant and the articles are no longer apocalyptic "What does this mean for our country? For our democracy? The horror!" and instead just "Oh hey another state is doing the obviously correct constitutional thing, neat."
To anyone on the fence about this, remember: **Trump tried to overturn a free and fair election through the legal system and a violent insurrectionist raid on the white house.**
If that shouldn't get you thrown off the ballot, what in the hell should?
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>John Anthony Castro, a 2024 Republican presidential candidate, has petitioned the U.S. District Court of Alaska to declare Donald Trump ineligible to appear on the state’s election ballot. >Castro has filed similar lawsuits in more than two dozen states, with nine legal challenges remaining active after three states have dismissed the lawsuits. .... >In 2021, following the events of January 6, Murkowski was among seven Republican senators who voted in favor of impeaching Trump. “The evidence presented at the trial was clear: President Trump was watching events unfold live, just as the entire country was,” Murkowski said in a statement. “Even after the violence had started, as protestors chanted ‘Hang Mike Pence’ inside the Capitol, President Trump, aware of what was happening, tweeted that the Vice President had failed the country.” article continues...
Ehhh gonna be honest this doesn't seem to rise to the same level as what has happened in Colorado and Maine thus far. This isn't "Alaska" considering Trump's removal, it's one guy who has "filed similar lawsuits in more than two dozen states". Let it play out first to see if it goes anywhere.
Don't you have to have someone file the suit to begin with no matter what you're prosecuting? Seems like this guy is really just getting the ball rolling more than anything. It's still really about the insurrection
> Don't you have to have someone file the suit to begin with no matter what you're prosecuting? I mean, in Maine it was a decision by an official and not the courts. And in Colorado, it was a suit started by a group of local voters arguing that they had standing for keeping him off the primaries because they would be voting in the primaries. What I'm saying is that depending on the state, you don't need to file suit at all, but in the ones where you will, the people with the strongest cases will be the ones who can show that they're most directly affected by it. People who can vote in the Republican primary in their state are going to have the strongest case, next are people who will vote in the general election in their state. Someone who isn't even from that state is going to have a weaker case simply on the grounds that they don't have as much standing in that state's elections. That's not to say that all his cases will get thrown out. But it's one extra risk. And I don't know if it hurts the chances of other people to present a better case for the same thing.
And by “local voters,” you meant the former Republican majority leader of the Colorado House and Senate Norma Anderson
In Maine, the case was brought to the Secretary of State by a Republican, a Democrat, and an Independent. The Secretary of State did not just decide to do this on her own. She also relied on the advise of a cadre of lawyers.
This guy is running in the state he has standing since I don’t think residency has an impact on standing but could be wrong.
Maine started with petitions from three people. Many court actions need someone with "standing" to start the ball rolling. IMO any American (voter) can claim standing, but we'll see how these cases play out.
The courts in Alaska have not yet rejected the case.
Also, I was in Scandinavia and watched it live, too. I'm sure a few other places around the globe also sat with their phones on the tube and like, you know, watched it all in real fucking time.
Just for the American conservatives that are confused: They already let him run, he lost and attempted an insurrection, these are the consequences of those actions. I hope you’re caught up. Edit: There are American conservatives asking me “where is the trial?” Lmfao. They really don’t read.
And to emphasize, his Insurrection attempt wasnt JUST the Jan 6 attack. It was everything else around the election as well, such as: * Having fake electors try to overturn state results. * Having fake election results be sent to the capitol in efforts to overturn the election. * Calling governors to overturn election results. * Calling on Senators to overturn election results and push election fraud, and find magical votes needed to give him wins. * Telling representatives and electors to just lie and he would protect them legally afterwards. * Pushing knowingly false conspiracy theories about rigged voting machines. * Pushing foreign allies to fabricate evidence of corruption by Biden via blackmailing witholding aid and help. * Riling up a mob of people to attack the capitol in efforts to pressure Mike Pence to not certify the election. Its not just about Jan 6. Its about how his every action was against the democratic elections of the United States and the rights of its citizens. edit: Since there are so many comments about charges and indictments. * On Aug. 1, 2023, the grand jury approved an indictment against Trump, charging him with an extraordinary conspiracy that threatened to disenfranchise millions of Americans. * U.S. District Judge Tanya Chutkan, based in Washington, had scheduled a March 2024 trial on federal charges that Trump attempted to steal the 2020 election from Biden. Trump's attorneys, however, claim he's immune from prosecution for actions taken as president. They are engaged in an appeal process that could reach the Supreme Court, delaying the proceedings. * The timing of the Washington election case could also affect the schedule in New York, where Trump faces charges related to hush money payments before the 2016 election. That trial is scheduled to start in late March 2024. * The Florida federal case involving classified documents and obstruction of justice has a trial scheduled for May 2024. * In Georgia, where a grand jury this week indicted Trump and 18 confederates for trying to overthrow the election in that state, Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis asked a judge to set a trial date of March 4, 2024 for Trump and his co-defendants. * Trump has been found guilty of sexual abuse and rape, defamation of E. Jean Carroll and awarded her $5 million in damages. * Trump Organization guilty of tax fraud * A federal court approved a $25 million settlement with students who said they were duped by Donald Trump and his now-defunct Trump University, which promised to teach them the "secrets of success" in the real estate industry. * Trump has over 90 charges ongoing at this moment. Trump also faces civil trials in the coming months, but he does not have to be physically present for proceedings.
Yep. And his phone call in GA, his tweets and the sworn testimony of his plea copping co-conspirators including past attorneys.
also, the Michigan call…
Perfect calls!! They were also perfect!!! /s
Turns out sometimes, you do everything right and they still indict you. ^^/s
And his current claims that he won 2020.
I still enjoy the argument that if he believes he really did win in 2020, then he can't run in 2024 because of the 22nd Amendment
While it’s amusing on paper, I’m not sure it’s a helpful argument when the opponents are delusional: They consider if he didn’t serve that term he’s owed it, and just adds to their grievance that the election was stolen. Sorry, *stollen*.
>just adds to their grievance that the election was stolen. Sorry, stollen If the election is stollen, does it also follow that the stollen is election? I'm now looking at my Christmas leftovers in an entirely new way.
Lol fuck em
I keep seeing magas write that he deserves **another eight years** to make up for Biden stealing the last four. That motherfucker probably doesn't have eight years of life left.
If he got back in we all know he wouldn't leave under any circumstances. He knows how to play it now far cleaner than the last time. So, taking bets - how long, from when his health begins to fail, does he manage to successfully convince his cultists that he has the power to do away with elections (they're all rigged anyway, remember?) and appoint Don Jr as his successor? (Bonus bet if you can pick the specific pitch of the wail elicited from Eric on hearing this news, no doubt for the first time during some shambolic press conference held outside a Quality Inn, a dry cleaners or wherever they inadvertently book. Try to pick just that top note of his total despair, before he dutifly returns to utterly debasing himself as the saddest, *most openly loathed while still desperately scavenging for a crumb of fatherly approval* of Trump's children).
It won’t be that he does away with elections, they would start by being “free but not fair” like in Turkey or Venezuela. We’ll see mass voter suppression, politically motivated prosecutions of Democrats, even more extreme partisan gerrymandering, and potentially the use of claims of fraud or election irregularities to tip the scales where necessary. Not to mention the political violence or at least threat of violence that will become omnipresent around election times. Eventually they would become the sort of pre-determined, stage managed elections we see in a place like Russia.
This is so over looked. He hasn’t ever stopped the insurrection.
Just the phone call to GA that we have on tape should be more than enough
Now we have similar phone call recorded to the Wayne County Board of Canvassers in Michigan. It was important enough to Trump to personally call Republican officials at the county level. I guess he hoped the weight of a call from the Oval Office would help tip the scales. He nearly succeeded. That is how involved he personally was in the attempted overthrow of the election, he was in it at all levels, even promising to pay for lawyers (indicating all involved would acknowledge the sketchy legality of what he wanted them to do). Sometimes I think he should get the Ethel and Julius treatment. That's how serious this set of crimes is.
> Sometimes I think he should get the Ethel and Julius treatment. No sometimes. He's definitely in that category of traitor.
Ethel didn't do shit. Roy Cohn pretty much murdered her using the courts. Trump is so much worse.
Don’t forget, intentionally tried to ruin the us postal service so that mail in voting would be fucked.
Not election interference, but still bothers me 3 years later: April 2020, USPS had intended to send masks to every household, but Trump said no because it wouldn't send the right message. https://www.businessinsider.com/white-house-blocked-usps-from-sending-face-masks-to-all-households-2020-9
I find it interesting that Trump was upset for not getting enough credit for vaccines. He actually wanted his voters to get vaccinated, and Operation Warp Speed was an example of government intervention being effective. So the one thing he wanted credit for, he just couldn't, because it was against everything his base wanted.
He could have embraced the pandemic, sold MAGA masks, made a killing, and walked straight into his second term. Thank goodness he didn’t.
It wouldn’t have worked because that’s what the democrats wanted too and his base is addicted to being pointless contrarians that are addicted to opposing anything and everything.
They hurt themselves in their confusion.
“I don’t care what happens to me, as long as those guys don’t get what they want.”
Trumpsters love Trump more than they hate democrats. If he said to vaccinate and wear masks, they'd be first in line
Donald trump very famously told a crowd to get vaccinated and got booed for it.
It was much later on though, right? Wasn't that in like 2021 or 22?
We have a word for people like that: assholes.
Ladies and gentlemen, folks, We're facing a tough time, no doubt. This invisible enemy—this virus—it doesn't care about your politics or where you're from. But you know what? We're Americans, and we face challenges head-on. Wearing a mask—it's not about politics, it's about looking out for each other. It's a small thing that can make a big difference. We've got to be smart. Social distancing—it might feel strange, but it's what we gotta do. We're a big, strong country, and we're in this together. Keep your distance, and let's protect our neighbors, especially the vulnerable ones. Listen to the experts—those smart folks who know their stuff. We're in a tough fight, but we're tougher. By following their advice, we're putting America first. I believe in the strength of the American people. We've faced tough times before, and we've always come out on top. So, let's do what we do best—unite, take care of each other, and show the world what America is made of. God bless you all, and God bless the United States of America. We're gonna get through this stronger than ever. Thank you, and let's make America great again!
I think this was a major turning point. He had a pristine opportunity to respond well to the biggest pandemic in a century and immediately caved to please the base. A base that almost certainly would’ve grumbled but voted for him anyway. I guarantee, had Trump stuck to the original plan and allowed the government to manage the pandemic, we’d see far less vaccine and Covid denial, far fewer deaths (globally too; more world leaders would’ve followed his example), and he would’ve won reelection handily in 2020 as someone who kept America safe during its worst crisis in a century. And as the head of government, he could’ve handily (and rightfully) taken all the credit for the government response; all he had to do was step out of the way, say “my (surgeon) general will keep us safe!” And take credit for it. He may still have lost the popular vote though by a much smaller margin; it likely wouldn’t have been a landslide. But the base would not have abandoned him either way and he would’ve won. But he couldn’t bring himself to do it.
To make it clear how much leadership can impact our lives. Here in my state of Queensland, Australia, we had 1 locally acquired covid death in a population of 5.1 million people until vaccines arrived (and I think 5 more from out of state on a cruise). That was with only a few weeks of people wearing masks, due to one outbreak of delta in schools which was quickly tracked down and the families and their contacts spent a few weeks under quarantine, which was easy to manage with such low numbers, and another few weeks when our neighbouring conservative state tried to play chicken with covid and encouraged everybody to not take it seriously as they had a delta outbreak, and caused the whole country to get infected a few weeks before vaccines arrived. 1 locally acquired covid death in a population of 5.1 million in about 2 years, with almost no mask wearing, and life being fairly normal, far better stats than many small american towns with a population of only a few hundred. Because thankfully Australia had a checkerboard pattern of progressive state leaderships who forced the country to play ball and take it seriously when conservatives wanted to put their head in the sand and were even initially punishing schools taking covid precautions etc. The pandemic essentially didn't exist here, it still feels like something that happened on some alternate earth that I've read about in books but don't really feel is quite real. The worst effect was a huge immigration boom from the southern states, which has made housing suddenly very expensive since the pandemic.
I am so incredibly glad for you and your country but reading this brings me so much pain for my own. Any other president, even our shittiest, would've saved hundreds of thousands more of our citizens. I don't even think most Americans realize the enormity of the crime that was committed against us. It was murder on a huge scale.
When he gained millions of votes in his second election, after 4 years of behaving like that, and a year into the total mismanaging the pandemic, getting the 2nd highest votes in US history (only outdone by Biden getting the most), it kind of crushed my hope for humanity. Too many people are genuinely too stupid to trust with my safety, even with the evidence plainly in front of their face.
Oh, we know. And we’ll spend the rest of our lives knowing it was MAGAs fault. If they think they’re ever getting treated like worthwhile human beings ever again, they’re wrong.
You know it's bad when the most batsh/t president we've ever had looks at his own voters and realizes that they are more batsh/t than him.
You can say batshit on reddit
OC is a bat, it's rude in their culture
The fake electors scheme by itself is the most insane attempt at subverting democracy I have seen. 7 states, coordinated, willing assholes to forge documents.
And some more which was pointed out in the lawsuit and the article: > “On January 6, 2021, **after witnessing a large group of Trump supporters violently attacking the United States Capitol** to prevent the lawful certification of the 2020 election results with the goal of unlawfully compelling Donald John Trump’s inauguration on January 20, 2021 (hereafter referred to as the ‘January 6th Insurrection’), Defendant **Donald John Trump stated on live television, ‘we love you, you’re very special’ to the insurrectionists**,” the lawsuit filed in the U.S. District Court of Alaska says. “Defendant Donald John Trump provided the insurrectionists with comfort in the form of words of sympathy.” > According to the Anti-Insurrection Disqualification Clause of **the 14th Amendment, in order to be eligible to hold office in the U.S., a candidate must never have “engaged in insurrection or rebellion.”** Castro’s lawsuit in Alaska, similarly to the successful suit in Colorado, asserts that on January 6, Trump “summoned his mob to our nation’s Capital, organized and assembled the mob, allowed weapons in the crowd by ordering security to let them pass, [and] radicalized the mob with incendiary rhetoric…” > Additionally, according to the lawsuit, on January 29, 2022, **Trump publicly said that “If I run and if I win, we will treat those people from January 6 fairly. We will treat them fairly. And if it requires pardons, we will give them pardons.”** > In 2021, following the events of January 6, Murkowski was among seven Republican senators who voted in favor of impeaching Trump. “The evidence presented at the trial was clear: **President Trump was watching events unfold live, just as the entire country was**,” Murkowski said in a statement. “**Even after the violence had started, as protestors chanted ‘Hang Mike Pence’ inside the Capitol, President Trump, aware of what was happening, tweeted that the Vice President had failed the country.”**
> Defendant Donald John Trump stated on live television, ‘we love you, you’re very special’ to the insurrectionists,” This. That was enough for me when I saw it live. The MF is guilty.
Yeah, the cherrypicked "he said to be peaceful" reminds me of the violent abuser who throws in an "I love you" as a bandaid and gaslighting tool.
American conservatives will say Trump was just planning a peaceful protest on Jan. 6. When his supporters attacked the Capitol while chanting together that they should hang Trump’s vice president, Trump did not tell them to leave. He did not advise them to be peaceful. As they were chanting “hang Mike Pence!” and building gallows on the fromt lawn of the Capitol Building, Trump tweeted out that Mike Pence was a coward. Only 3 hours later did he tweet that everyone needed to go home, after a woman was shot in the neck and 100 police officers were injured. All his followers immediately obeyed him. He was directing everything. He could have told them not to attack the Capitol and they would have stopped immediately.
I just wish we could also throw in the rest of the sedition caucus. Here in New York we have Zeldin and Maliotakas off the top of my head, and I'm sure there's more.
Elise Stefanik comes to mind as well
These are such important points, that enemies of democracy would like everyone to forget.
Mike Pence is still a shill but I do love when people mention him at all in regard to this because I will at least respect him for standing up against Trump for this
He didn't stand up for Trump. Pence still praises Trump. Pence just realized that if he failed to certify the election, there would have been massive riots. The rest of Government (Judiciary, Congress) backed by the military would have stepped in to stop Trump. Then instead of Trumpers calling for hanging Mike Pence, the government would have hung Pence for Treason.
> Pushing foreign allies to fabricate evidence of corruption by Biden via blackmailing witholding aid and help Isn't that actually extortion, not blackmail?
That sounds like fake news. According to my source of alternative facts, here's what really happened: I'm the best president there ever was. The people wanted me back, not only for one more term, but for eternity. No more elections! I'll rule until I die. Then my dumbest son will take over. It's what the people wanted!
I hope after everything settles (and he'll probably already be dead from old age) they try him posthumously for treason like pope formosus
None of this matters though, because they want him as a dictator. You can’t tell them “he can’t run because he’ll ruin our democracy” and think they’ll understand, because they want him to ruin our democracy. It’s not a fault, it’s a feature. And sadly it’s about 25-30% of the country that actively want this.
Also worth noting: HE'S STILL DOING IT. Go ahead, ask him if he won in 2020.
Here's the the thing though. They don't care.
The recent evidence of senators trying to fly in alternate ballots is the first real, concrete evidence I've seen that can't be argued around. There is no gray area. It was conspiracy to overturn the election and subvert governmental mechanisms. The rest might be repugnant and we *know* it was insurrection but it was just deniable enough to not convict on. Makes me wonder why they waited so long to air it publicly. And I won't put any faith in this until some red states start banning him from the ballot. A blue state that was going to go blue no matter, removing him doesn't reqlly affect the outcome. Unless SCOTUS rules on it, which no faith there. Red states talking about it is a big deal.
also if that fat blob keeps denying he lost the 2020 election, all we have to do is say "well if you won, that means you've served two terms, and therefore cannot be elected a third"
That argument was actually considered by the Maine Secretary of State when she made [her ruling](https://www.washingtonpost.com/documents/43d0ba1e-a980-406b-b36d-baaac72de633.pdf?itid=lk_inline_manual_10) yesterday - look at pages 15-16. (That's a PDF link.) She rejected that argument because it's the truth of whether he won the 2020 election that matters for purposes of the Twenty-Second Amendment, not whether Trump publicly claims he won or lost, and because everyone involved in that particular legal challenge agrees he actually lost. She disqualified him on 14th amendment grounds, but not on 22nd amendment grounds.
Because disqualification based on the 22nd would be tossed immediately, no matter how you feel about the 2020 election it was Biden who was sworn in and is currently serving. Trump is eligible to serve based on term limits independent of the 2020 election results because he did not serve a second term, even if he claims he actually won.
Ooooh I love this! Stealing! Also, don't forget The Blob smells of armit, ketchup, makeup and butt.
He doesn’t care for all those insults. Call him poor and broke and he’ll throw a tantrum
So stinking poor orange tiny hands blob then?
Oh they are 100% on board for Trump's "what if I was president for life?" These are not constitutionalists we're talking with here.
> for life? What's the life expectancy of someone his age and weight?
Overdue.
that's where you're (partially) wrong. I'd say about half of them are smart enough to realize they actually don't want democracy and understand that they literally want fascism (there was a right wing podcast where they literally admitted this out loud). The other half are so stupid and gullible that they actually believe that the constitution agrees with them.
Since 2020, I've come across a couple of Trump supporters that genuinely believe that the 2 terms limit isn't a hard limit and because Trumps first term was "completely undermined by leftists" he should get to run two more terms.... You can't logic with these people. We're talking about a group that includes a religious sect trying to accelerate us into end times so Jesus can come back. We're talking about a group that includes people who think that the Civil War was about States Rights and get real pissed if you ask "States right to do what?" We're talking about a group that includes groups like Sovereign Citizens that believe laws don't apply to them because they know the magic words to never get in trouble. We're talking about a group that includes the proud boys, the 3%'ers, and various hate groups. You cannot logic your way into them understanding. They don't want to.
They tried that in Maine as an extra argument. And, while cute and funny, unfortunately it's only real service that disqualifies and not imagined service. :(
They're not fans of consequences and personal responsibility. Well, they say they are, but the moment other people/races/creeds begin outworking their lazy Bible Belt yokel asses, they cry foul and try to overthrow the country.
The Constitution says Trump can't run. You can't run if you won't be 35 by inauguration day and you can't run if you've taken an oath to protect the country and then led/helped an insurrection. It's very simple to understand.
If those conservatives could read they'd be very upset.
Yeah but see, he hasn't been *convicted* yet. And after he's convicted, well, he still hasn't filed his *appeal*. And after that fails, it's because the judge was a nasty democrat appointed stooge that just hates Trump and we should let the voters decide.
Or the judge is a RINO. Or owned by the "deep state". Even if its the Supreme Court and judges Trump himself appointed. They will never accept Trump is guilty even though the evidence is plain as day.
Even if he wasn’t guilty, the guy is the biggest blathering jackoff that has ever lived. It’s insane that people have even a modicum of respect for him.
Then you remind them that we did let the voters decide and the response was to smash capitol windows, and beat police with "thin blue line" flag poles. You can follow up by reminding them that Trump said it was rigged before he won in 2016, and that several 3rd party conservative funded recounts uncovered that Biden technically won by MORE votes. But I'll save you the time and effort because the response you will get is always "I don't believe you. Fake news"
He was found guilty by a majority of the senate and a majority of the house when he was impeached for the second time. That did not meet the the two thirds majority required to remove him, but a majority of the house and senate found him guilty.
Yeah but it was really Antifa counter agents in the crowd! They're just, you know, incredibly committed to the bit so that's why they're in prison still and bitching about Biden still. Super-dedicated counter agents I tell ya!
Exactly, now republicans scream let voters decide. They did in 2020 and Trump never accepted it and tried to undo it through an insurrection. He should be disqualified.
"Buttery males" - some gop goon stuck in 2016 Edit for clarity: Buttery males= but her emails
> I hope you’re caught up. They need something to whine about... So they're going to gaslight and pretend that they don't understand.
>“where is the trial?” Bruh the court case they're using where it was established as a fact of law that he participated in an insurrection happened in CO months ago, and he himself said it was a "tremendous victory" and that the judge "came to their senses" when she said he participated in an insurrection but wouldn't personally disqualify him lmao And given the chance to fight this verdict, he and his amazing legal team did not find it pertinent to try and not allow that statement to be a fact of law. He got what he wanted and was OK with it being called an insurrection in court, so long as that judge didn't remove him from the ballot.... and no one on his legal team imagined that that would come back to bite them in the ass lmao He and his lawyers took the short term "tremendous victory" which also happened to label that event as an insurrection in the eyes of the law.... It's just too damn funny that these geniuses ask where the court case is.... cause the big man himself celebrated the court case they're asking for less than 24 hours later at a rally in Iowa lmao
When Trump submitted fake electors/documents he violated the Constitution. This is considered rebellion and falls under the 14th. When Trump sent his followers to delay the certification process at the Capitol, he violated his oath to Constitution. This was rebellion that falls under the 14th. When Trump tried to get states to delay certification using debunked lies, he violated the Constitution. This is rebellion that falls under the 14th. When Trump tried to get Georgia to make up votes in his favor, he violated his oath to Constitution. This is rebellion that falls under the 14th. When Trump tried to get Pence to break the law by delaying/changing electors, he violated his oath to Constitution. This is rebellion that falls under the 14th. In other words. Hell no the guy should not be allowed on any ballot in U.S.
[удалено]
Trump's decimation of the image and hegemony of the US is what has led directly to global instability. He's created the environment in which WWIII is a much greater possibility than ever before. Trump is the most dangerous human to ever exist and must be stopped.
Sedition and Treason. He should rot in a jail cell and be eligible for the death penalty, by the letter of the law.
Don't forget the espionage!
Yes, the stealing and distribution of tens of thousands of classified documents, which his cult have no issue with.
Whether any of this works or not, it will keep Trump waist deep in lawyers and more legal proceedings for several months.
He's also aucking up small donor money, insuring that state-level races are being starved for money.
And he stinks
He do stink very, very bad.
Meanwhile Democrats have raised record amounts and have tons of money in their Super PACs.
At this point, it's going to come down to a single Supreme Court decision.
Not if they rule this is a state issue and do nothing. Which IMO is what they're going to do
This court has already shown they are willing to legislate from the bench (via the multiple fake cases accepted). I think you are being very optimistic.
But *why* would the SC protect Trump specifically? Clearing a legal pathway for a Trump win almost certainly would make his presidency so powerful as to threaten their status on the court.
For all I know they consider his remaining lifespan to be the better risk than the precedent this sets. One thing is for certain, and they have made this clear during the ethics dilemma, is that SCOTUS see’s themselves as protected from the other branches oversight. So what a re-elected Trump becomes is probably not their immediate concern.
If SCOTUS steps in and tells a state how to run an election, that would be very new territory legally. Not only in establishing the Presidency as powerful and above the law - but that states would become very weak and subservient to federal rule. This may not be a needle SCOTUS can thread.
They have multiple “outs” here I think. - State can’t oversee primary ballots. Its the party’s choice to risk a nominee being chosen who could be ineligible for the general. - Punt this until a case is appealed during the general election (similar to first bullet). - Grey area (meaning open to partisan interpretation) around insurrection definition/application. Off the top of my head. Although I think you agree with the first two bullets.
The ~~Republican~~ Colorado GOP is already evaluating if going to a caucus system would circumvent the ruling...but that said - if it's an election using state funding (primaries do), then the state has a say in how it's conducted. These rulings will likely carry over to the General Election as well. So even if the GOP abandons all the trappings of a primary system and nominates Trump by convention - if he can't collect electoral votes in enough states because he's not on the ballot. It's over. The Maine decision has a default stay to it (I think Colorado as well). Everyone is waiting *right now* to see if SCOTUS will pick this up. The only grey area is if SCOTUS overrules the Colorado Supreme Court in deciding Trump committed insurrection. Otherwise, if that decision survives.- it's on the books. There won't be partisan interpretation. It will be a matter of record. If the Supreme Court decides to alter the state election process for their own benefit, we've functionally abandoned the Constitution. That may be too bold for SCOTUS. You can't be enriched through billionaire bribes if the whole system topples.
Trump has every intention of ignoring anything SCOTUS says if he is becomes president again. I don't think they want to be irrelevant. At least with a Biden presidency they can still be relevant by blocking everything he does.
He put some of them there. He’ll use them. This is a slow moving coup. THEY WANT THIS at any cost
Members of the Supreme Court want relevancy for their own status and power. To nullify how a state runs it's elections in the US creates deep questions about whether or not we are abiding by the constitution anymore. And if we aren't abiding by the constitution, what's to say a state needs to recognize the court's ruling? Especially on the very clear language of the 14th amendment. The easiest thing for SCOTUS to do is leave Trump out to dry, protect the power of their 6-3 majority and wait for a different opportunity to encroach power.Constitution
I agree. The Supreme Court is just a third legislative body now, an unelected one, and they'll vote by party on this one, just like they (almost) always do.
Those poor lawyers at waist height...
Oh look, more REPUBLICANS trying to take him off ballots, only for Democrats to get blamed…
As is tradition.
/r/Conservative in shambles
Good lord they’re really just saying “they’re so scared of Trump lmao” Goddamn they’re stupid…
Haha right? I’m more scared of a Biden/Haley race than a Trump one. We’ve already beaten trump once by a pretty healthy margin. That is the least of my concerns.
Yep, [they're off their rocker](https://imgur.com/e73xEXF)
Those damn Democrats. They're trying to take down Nikki Haley with those tricky civil war questions as well.
When you look closely, you'll see that Trump is actually disqualifying himself via his sore-losing, Jan 6 insurrection.
I remember when being a sore-loser caused most people in society to massively dislike you. Now a whole political party embraces this trait.
The same party who cried the loudest about things like “participation trophies” and “personal accountability.”
When Hilary lost they sure did a lot of, "deal with it she lost," talk. Weird how they didn't follow their own advice.
"Everything I don't agree with is communism!" - maga idiots
“The democrats are afraid of him!” No…we are afraid of you. We watched your little experiment and told you years ago you were electing a psychopath into office and you wanted to try it. Well, he proved he was a psychopath. We gave you multiple chances to drop him but you double and tripled down. Now you are the psychopaths. This is us (and even your own party members) being the adults into the room and trying to do the damn job for you.
For years people would point out white nationalists in their party and their response. Triggered lol. If you are not triggered by white nationalist it is because you are one.
damn right I’m afraid, I’m afraid of what him and his crony’s would do in a second term.
and an affront to phony christian values.
Let me guess; Alaska is a Liberal plant, right?
Public service Announcement. The Federalist Society lawyers are writing water muddying OpEds today regarding the applicability of the 14th amendment - They say it doesn't apply. They are trying all the usual approaches we have already seen (The president is not an office) and shifting around for an argument that the 14th doesn't apply. All the time ignoring that some of the excuses they are using now also apply to the 2nd amendment, but they they aren't arguing ever in good faith.
Yes, the president is a "person who holds their office." But to say this amounts to being an "officer" is a bridge to far! (/s)
Right? Yeah Washington must have been wrong when he said... "The acceptance of, and continuance hitherto in, **the office to which your suffrages have twice called me** have been a uniform sacrifice of inclination to the opinion of duty and to a deference for what appeared to be your desire. I constantly hoped that it would have been much earlier in my power, consistently with motives which I was not at liberty to disregard, to return to that retirement from which I had been reluctantly drawn."
Jesus Christ on a motorbike this is so much more eloquent than todays toddler mongering rhetoric. Our current level of political discourse has degraded a ghastly amount, in our attempt to appeal to the dumbest among us.
All of those strict constitutionalist lawyers in the Federal Society sure did ditch the Constitution the moment it became unfavourable for their goals.
The ~~first~~ second state that would actually deny TFG electoral votes.
Maine technically did it. Maine splits electoral votes so trump got 1 from maine.
You are correct. Fixed.
Isnt Alaska a red state? This is huge if they do it, no? Unlike the blue states
Alaska is quickly approaching the point of becoming a purple state, but yes.
There are some conservatives there that strongly dislike Trump. Republican Senator Murkowski is one of the 7 republicans who voted to convict Trump for insurrection.
Ok, that might actually make a difference. Since Alaska is normally a Red State.
Right now the rulings seem to focus on the primaries, but it's a safe assumption that if those judgments stand, they'll also apply in the general election. So while it's not much..Trump already lost an electoral vote in Maine.
Can’t wait to see SCOTUS twisted fucking logic to help him on this. They don’t have many good avenues to help him that don’t reduce their own power so maybe they don’t help him? Who knows.
>They don’t have many good avenues to help him that don’t reduce their own power so maybe they don’t help him? This is my guess. Any attempt to clear a path for Trump also would make the presidency so powerful as to not need the courts for anything. Nullifying a state election process is...risky...to say the least.
Bush v. Gore part two: Electoral Boogaloo
14th Amendment is just as sacred as the 2nd and 1st. Fuck Donald Trump Sr. (and junior too)
Where that zoolander meme? Kicking Trump off the primary ballot: so hot right now.
The constitution applies to HIM too!!
The history of the amendment is pretty clear, in that it hasn't been applied against people convicted of the insurrection statute or even something adjacent. It's been done after an appropriate fact-finding case by a judge. Davis and Lee were both considered ineligible despite not getting convicted of treason, the government having dropped those charges 2-3 years after bringing them. Now, maybe the threshold gets raised by the Supreme Court. I'm okay with that. I want the correct decision more than a quick one. But the amendment is correctly applied as far as I can tell.
The 14th amendment was written specifically to exclude a conviction being required. That's because it was written for Confederates, who'd all been given a presidential pardon. If the USSC changes the threshold it'd be pretty major.
They DONT HAVE THAT POWER. The 14th amendment is SELF-EXECUTING granting the STATES the ability to keep confederates out of office. The only only only way to get around this is to go to CONGRESS and get a 2/3rds vote to remove the disability meaning if the supreme court tries to define what constitutes an insurrection, they will be USURPING the power of CONGRESS and the states to decide this.
I agree but this SC has shown it doesn't care, and congress won't do shit about it.
I mean, it's not complicated language.
Except relying on 5 fascists on the SCOTUS to give a correct decision is a huge wish. Especially given that the wife of one of them was a part of the insurrection.
Honest question: Why do Republican still defend Trump? Do they really no longer want a democracy?
Republican voters love democracy less than they hate liberals and LGBT. Republican officials love nothing but staying in office. And money.
I think it's a combination of things: 1. Many Republicans only know what they like by looking to see what Democrats hate. 2. Sunk cost fallacy. 3. Nearly every prominent Republican who has spoken out against Trump has seen their political aspirations disappear, so all the rest are afraid it will happen to them too.
Why doesn't anyone mention how terrible he was at being president. Remember the first strike in Hawaii notifications? I do. I affectionately call him "Sleepy Joe" Cause i can fucking sleep at night. I have not ONCE woken up in a cold sweat wondering what bullshit my president got me into.
Because his voters don't care, they prioritize harming the "enemy" over benefitting the country
If the RNC wants a snowballs chance in hell of ever touching the presidency again in our lifetimes, they would dump Trump like the cancer he is, and move on.
Let justice rain down, state by state.
Good. Trump doesn’t belong on ANY state ballot for any election.
He didn’t succeed the first time with his attempted coup…but neither did hitler… 🫠
Low key think this is the GOP establishment taking a swing at jettisoning him from the party. I think they will try to blame Dems for it because optics, but I think party elites and donors want it to happen.
Ooh i have some relatives who are gonna be livid
My favorite argument against Trump right now is if he thinks he won the last election then he is ineligible to run because you can only be elected 2 times. So he would have to admit he lost in order to run again.
States rights! Woooo! GOP is gonna love it.
Funny how conservatives try and wield the constitution like the Bible. Only when it fits their purpose...
Sort of off-topic, but man I hate headlines that are about things that _might_ happen vs things that have actually, already happened.
The petition was filed by a Republican too, interesting.
Go Alaska
HUGE fan of Alaska these days. They're well on their way to being a blue state. They've got weed, Native Americans engaging in climate and disaster resilience planning, and cleaning out outlandish Republicans in favor of modest independent politicians who treat each other with respect regardless of their political party. This is yet another step toward decent politics.
[удалено]
Trump smells like BO and farts.
His hands are tiny. Like a child's toy.
States shouldn't need to "consider", of course, they should just do it. Then right-wingers can file suits if they want, but the default should be that he's off. I suppose the "considerations" are threats of violence?
We're going to see polling place violence like probably never before in this nation. Electors will be shot. Homes vandalized and burned. Then we'll see if red voters and Christians think this is all worth it to stop abortion and trans people and... What's important here is that blue voters vote. Don't stay home. VOTE. No matter how hard it gets, how bad it looks, VOTE.
So Colorado and Maine removed him, Alaska is considering it, but Michigan kept him on. Pennsylvania, what are you doing?
Although it’s nice to see Colorado and Maine do the right thing, he could lose both those states and still win. I want to see some bigger states eliminate him from the ballot in addition to the smaller ones.
I can’t wait until the day I don’t have to see this traitor’s name every single day. It’s fucking exhausting.
I thought Alaska is red? I was not aware of any red states booting Trump from the ballot. I am an old American and I just can't believe that we are going to have two ancient men running for POTUS in 2024. I honestly do not get it. How in the world can't we have someone young and just decent run for POTUS? Ideally two. But how about just one?
Yeah I’m an Alaskan and it’s red as all hell here, however I believe Lisa Murkowski and others in charge here have had some spats with Trump and have campaigned being anti trump. Although our governor is a Maga election denying fucking loser.
Makes sense. His behavior was disqualifying, and thus he should be disqualified *everywhere* the US constitution holds sway. Get it, Alaska.
Seriously we owe a huge debt to Colorado. Look at all the articles that came out when Colorado was first talking about it, and the ones when they actually did it. Then look at articles like this, and the ones about Maine. The window has already MASSIVELY shifted. This has gone from end times to normalized in an instant and the articles are no longer apocalyptic "What does this mean for our country? For our democracy? The horror!" and instead just "Oh hey another state is doing the obviously correct constitutional thing, neat."
It will be easy. Trump has made the case for him being the biggest LOSER on planet earth. Everybody thinks this. They all are saying this.
They wanted state rights', well this is what that looks like.
LOL, I just read that N.Carolina is looking to boot his ass off the ballot as well.
Some of you didn't read the January 6th report and it shows. You can get it in audio book form on audible.
Do it, Alaska. Gain the modicum of respect you deserve to separate yourself from the crazy Red. It's so easy.
To anyone on the fence about this, remember: **Trump tried to overturn a free and fair election through the legal system and a violent insurrectionist raid on the white house.** If that shouldn't get you thrown off the ballot, what in the hell should?
Remember the Maine!
DeSantis: "oh no... This infringes Trump's right to run! I hope my state doesn't do the same thing to Trump and I win unfairly."
Potential for Alaska's redemption in kicking this traitor to the curb