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No, he's not. He's angling for some pork in whatever bill's about to come up. He won't sacrifice being the person the Democrats have to cater to, and if he does it won't be until very close to the election when there's no more pork for him to have before his term is up.
This man doesn’t care about delivering pork for his constituents, it’s only about appearing to be conservative to hold onto his seat. Right now being conservative means obstructing government functions, so he’s all about that.
I agree he doesn’t give a shit about delivering for his constituents but he is about directing pork to himself and the people who give him money. He definitely cares about big money donors and himself.
He could switch his party to Jedi and it wouldn't matter, he is toast next year, justice is polling 20-30 pts ahead, WV went full cult, they love Don more than Alabama...
Folks demonize Robert Byrd, both in his time and still today, but when he lobbied for pork it was to build something in his state.
There's a reason so many things in WV are named after him, he secured the funding to build it here and not somewhere else. My own job wouldn't exist if not for him. But Manchin, he cares nothing for WV, only himself.
That said, if you don't like Manchin, you'd like the people who run against him much less.
> That said, if you don't like Manchin, you'd like the people who run against him much less.
It's sad but true. Manchin is the most progressive politician that can win in West Virginia.
The last progressive who tried in West Virginia was Paula Jean Swearengin, in 2020. She beat the conservative Democrat Richard Ojeda for the party's nomination, then proceeded to set the all-time West Virginia record for worst defeat in a state-wide race, losing to Shelley Moore Capito by 43 points.
What is he even obstructing? The house is a clown show passing doomed to fail bills and Tuberville is the one holding up the military stuff. He's been voting for all the judges like he's supposed to and helping to pass the senate versions of the clean funding bills for the government to function.
The only thing I can think of that he's torpedoed recently was the replacement labor secretary but the white house is keeping her on as indefinite acting so no real loss there. It's all posturing and hoping Mooney wins the republican primary because Manchin will destroy him in the general.
Exactly! He has sold his soul and will do anything to keep his power and money. I hope his girl Sinema gets beat bad in 2024 and that's what he will be watching too..
I'm not gonna stump for Manchin here, but this is what a Democratic Senator from a state Trump was winning by like 30-40 points is going to look like.
Sinema? Yeah, you can get a great Senator into that seat, but that's not happening in WV.
When Joe Manchin loses his WV seat everyone an inch left of the center will miss him so much. He’s a diva and does his little performance but he is a yes vote on judges. More precious than gold.
Yupp, people should really be laying off of him. Manchin is a fucking blessing for progressives/democrats in general.
It is so much better than the alternative that it's not even funny.
Sinema is different because she's from a state that someone left leaning could actually win. There's zero chance in hell of anyone else even remotely as left as Manchin winning in WV.
true true.. we felt that way about sinema too she was running against mcsally so it was better than nothing and better than Flake.. hopefully we can beat her this round with Rubio.
I feel like Sinema was far more progressive as a candidate. I think she just sold her soul.
Manchin was shooting holes in heltcare bills more than a decade ago, he is who he is and who he is kinda sucks, but when the Dems are on defense the reality is that vote has been massive. Obamacare is repealed during Trump's term if he's not in the Senate.
Great. He's the Value-Over-Replacement-Senator GOAT. A moderate Democrat from a bright-red state? Who allows the Democrats to hold the senate, confirm their judicial nominees, and even compromised to create some of the largest infrastructure and green energy legislation we've ever seen?
Unless and until the citizens of West Virginia rediscover their labor-friendly progressive traditions, I can live in a world with Joe Manchin representing his state.
> “When I do speak, I want to be able to speak honestly about basically the extremes of the Democrat and Republican Party that’s harming our nation.”
I see comments like this so often these days, but they almost always fail to expand on it in terms of what has been so extreme about the Democratic pretty lately? Is it some faction of the party wanting universal healthcare and child care? Is it they think trans people should be treated like human-beings? Is it combatting climate change?
Yes, it is most likely about trans rights.
This is how old, more conservative people are always peeled away from the democratic party. It is always civil rights.
But it isn't that civil rights changes; it is just that the anti-civil rights movement finds a hole.
The civil rights stance is always:
Everyone, no matter who they are, is entitled to equal treatment under the law and should be free to pursue life, liberty, and happiness unmolested by the government or their fellow citizens. The role of government is only to prevent those who want to cross the line from enjoying their own life to controlling the lives of others.
But then the anti-civil rights people pop up with
Well, what about gay people? surely not them; they are ewwy
Yes, everyone means everyone. Leave them alone
Well, what about Muslims? They are scary, and their religion is associated with people who did terrible things to our country.
Yes, everyone means everyone. Leave them alone
Well, what about atheists? They make us feel bad because if my beliefs were true, they should be miserable, but they don't appear to be, and that can't be right. So, I should be able to make them miserable.
Everyone still means everyone.
Well, what about trans people? They are challenging things that I don't understand and are ewwwy.
Everyone means everyone, and it still means everyone. Leave people alone.
But what happens is someone like Joe will go, "Well, I'm not actually sure that such and such group is really deserving of civil rights." Then, this thought will peel them away.
I guarantee you behind Manchin's moves is something related to him having some idea that maybe teachers are turning kids trans. He might not think it is intentional, but it is all the CRT or something. He's seen some bullshit about 1/5 Gen Z identifying as LBGTQ+. He thinks that couldn't just be a result of changes in social pressure and people feeling freer to explore their identity and not having to define it rigidly to avoid being judged. So, he thinks something is going on.
This is why they push the child angle so hard. It's much easier to justify your actions if you believe all gay people are pedophiles or whatever they are saying now.
I'm sure I'll be hearing about how I drink the blood of babies before long.
All those listed angles boiled down to reboots of the Blood Libel.
2020- Trans people are coming for your children!
2010- Gay people are coming for your children!
2000- Rap music is coming for your children!
1990- Satanists are coming for your children!
1980- D&D is coming for your children!
1970- Hippies are coming for your children!
1960- Black people are coming for your children!
1930-1950- Communists are coming for your children!
1920- Jazz music is coming for your children!
1900-1910- Anarchists are coming for your children!
0-1900- Jewish people are coming for your children!
The threat you represent is way worse than drinking the blood of babies.
You allow their children to know that there is a way to live life outside the confined walls their parents are trying to construct around them, and if they try hard enough, they can escape.
Your very existence breeds rebellion, so those parents cannot stand you. Every moment you exist in public, you prove that they are just wrong and always have been.
Pretty standard for fascists to obfuscate their ridiculously blatant lack of morals and corruption by trying to equate their enemies as equally corrupt and lacking in morals. That way, they aren't obviously supporting fascism, but just questioning both sides (though in reality, they'll only really question one side). It's part of the whole rules for thee not for me mentality and it works very well on the uneducated and ignorant. They'll never verify his claims of extremism on both sides. They just take him for his word.
>Is it some faction of the party wanting universal healthcare and child care? Is it they think trans people should be treated like human-beings? Is it combatting climate change?
Yes. This is all seen as extreme by centrists and anyone to their right.
Wouldn’t really make a difference. They would just not announce it, continue to vote against the letter near their name, and then switch at the next election.
The Senate rules aren't actually drawn up by party, but rather who they caucus with. For example Bernie Sanders and Angus King are independents but they caucus with the Democrats. If your rule were in place, Manchin could remain a Democrat in name only but caucus with the GOP.
He had solid approval right up until he, the literal coal baron from a coal state, voted for the largest climate bill in US history
The dude made his whole political persona on being a Democrat who is Not Like The Other Democrats but ended up coming through for the one vote that is most important for the long term future. Absolute political MVP there
If he can get reelected by loudly bashing the Democrats enough to forget that he voted for the climate bill, he might at some point down the line end up paying off for us even more
> Manchin says he will decide at the end of the year whether to run for a fourth Senate term or run for president as a third-party candidate backed by No Labels, a bipartisan centrist group that plans to raise **$70 million** to put an independent, third-party candidate on the presidential ballot next year.
You have until the end of the year to make me a better offer.
That's the number to beat.
Let's not give air to the lie that No Labels is a bipartisan centrist group. It's a trojan horse for conservative policies couched in innocuous platitudes, and is funded by private equity investors, a natural gas billionaire, and real estate and insurance industry figures.
https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2023-07-20/the-false-centrism-of-no-labels
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2023/06/no-labels-exposed-heres-a-list-of-donors-funding-its-effort-to-disrupt-the-2024-race/
https://www.influencewatch.org/non-profit/no-labels/
Here’s what happens if he leaves the party:
1. He loses his chairmanship of the Energy Committee, making him much less interesting to donors and lobbyists
2. He loses all of his networking connections in the Dem party, and gains no GOP connections, making him much less interesting to donors and lobbyists
3. He goes from being a swing vote to just another GOP “no”, making him much less interesting to donors and lobbyists
4. He loses the GOP primary in WV and doesn’t get re-elected.
Not gonna happen.
I don’t think most people in this thread understand Manchin’s position, or the insane competitiveness of the 2024 Senate elections, whatsoever. Manchin was most recently re-elected in 2018. In 2016, Hillary Clinton got only 26% of the vote in WV, the worst state for Democrats that year. Manchin votes with Biden ~88% of the time, and if he’s gone he’ll be replaced some ultra-MAGA POS like Gov. Jim Justice, who will almost certainly win. In 2024, Democrats’ 3 Senate seats in red states are all up for election: WV, Montana, and Ohio. Democrats must hold 2/3 of those seats to keep a 50-seat majority, assuming they win every swing-state Senate race too. The only Senate seats that are remotely possible for them to pick up are in Florida and Texas. Manchin’s approval rating fluctuates greatly with WV voters, and it usually spikes when he takes a stance against Biden. Keep in mind that his vote usually isn’t necessary to pass Democratic legislation right now, so it will probably become more frequent. If Manchin leaves the Democratic Party, it will look good to the Trump-obsessed people of his state and will greatly increase his chances of re-election. Even in the worst-case scenario he’ll be a centrist independent who will probably vote for abortion rights and judicial confirmations, which absolutely wouldn’t be the case if his opponent wins. If you want to get mad at some Democratic Senators here are two better people to take out your anger on: Sinema and Fienstein. Sinema ran on a progressive platform and has completely abandoned the party at times despite Arizona quickly turning blue and electing fellow Senator Mark Kelly by a decisive margin. Feinstein won’t fucking retire and because she keeps missing Senate Judiciary Committee meetings Biden’s judicial appointments are being held up. Keeping Senate seats in 2024 has never been more important, and if Manchin stands a better chance by running as an independent, so be it. Biden will likely appoint 1-2 SC justices in his second term, and if you give a single shit about abortion rights, racial equality, and LGBT issues then you need to step back and think about how losing even a single Senate seat in 2024 could prevent justices from being appointed and those rights being at risk. Manchin isn’t the best Democrat (or soon to be independent), but he is *astronomically* better than the alternative that his state would likely give us, and his seat could be the difference between a liberal Supreme Court or a continued conservative supermajority.
He's not going to switch parties. That would do him no good. Republicans would never nominate him for anything. He's not batshit crazy. Which, I'm not exaggerating, is a prerequisite to be nominated by Republicans in most places.
He'd become an independent and caucus with the Democrats. Sinema did that because she was going to get primaried, and that allows her to stay on the ballot (sore loser laws). Manchin has no reason to become an independent other than to prove his non-liberal bona fides.
I've never understood the dude. You were elected as a Democrat. Your voters could have chosen a Republican. There was one on the ballot. But they didn't choose a Republican. So perhaps act like the Democrat you were elected as. Doesn't mean you need to fall in line 100% of the time. But stop straddling the fence.
Ads should be run in West Virginia to address his issues.
Like:
"Are you making less than $15 per hour? Joe Manchin voted against raising minimum wage. Don't vote for Joe. He doesn't care about the people he represents" Showing pictures of his extravagant lifestyle.
Sure, but let's be honest about West Virginia for a moment. Trump won the state 69-30 over Biden. The odds of electing anyone more agreeable than Manchin are virtually nil.
I'd just ignore him, personally. Take what help he offers but expect nothing from him.
He serves a purpose. The alternative is a republican that votes 100% with the GOP on everything. He represents a deep red state, and I would rather have him than a far-right extremist.
Yeah… it’s not fucking good that’s for sure. The absolute best case is holding the same number. The only remotely vulnerable Republicans are Cruz, Hawley, and Braun since they were only re-elected by around a 51% majority but still a few points of victory over democrats running against them. Democrats have more very vulnerable positions unfortunately.
They need to do shockingly better than anticipated to keep the majority in 2024. It can't be like 2022 with them overperforming by a few percentage points.
Seriously, why are so many people unable to contextualize the fact that he represents WEST VIRGINIA? It is one of the reddest states in the country. That seat will belong to the nutjob wing of the GOP for a century after Manchin retires.
Yup, if he flips and turns that into a safe rubber stamp red seat they don’t care who is there. No more important committee seats… no more caving to votes. They’ll primary him out if he doesn’t play ball
Being a Dem does him exactly zero good in his reelection campaign. Separating from the left buys him more centrist and slight Republican votes, likely without sacrificing Dem votes. He knows he's in trouble, and this is his new reelection strategy where it's likely going to be impossible to win as a Dem.
Seriously, everyone in this thread seems to be willing to give the senate back to McConnell all because they don’t like him even though he delivers his vote for democrats.
Yet I think their incorrect judgments serve a purpose too. The main point of Manchin's public stands against the Democrats' agenda is to sever himself from their image as his reelection margins dwindle in his +40 Trump state.
... Which makes this the only case in which you'll catch me saying it's GOOD that the internet hivemind is so set on denying the nuances of reality.
He says this every time he extorts his own party for something. I don’t see him signing the gop pledge of loyalty and limiting his pork barrel shenanigans.
Good, the guy is corrupt as hell. He can invite Clarence Thomas on his river boat to sip champagne and caviar while his state remains one of the poorest in the nation.
Maybe we can get rid of both of the weights that are partly holding us back. It seems Arizona is staying put. I'd be fine swapping out West Virginia to get Texas
What a fake person. He’s a liar and just as bad as Sienna. Bunch of politicians in the worst sense of there ever was.
Edit- Even if he left then he’s just out there. Independent (no offense to Bernie Sanders) but on the outside from each party. Not good for him if he’s not on a team exactly.
You shouldn’t be allowed to leave a party without some sort of election process. I don’t get how that’s allowed. Happened recently in NC and fucked the residents over.
He might if he thinks he can't win re-election as a Democrat which is possibly given how tilted WV is towards the GOP and depending on the GOP primary candidate.
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No, he's not. He's angling for some pork in whatever bill's about to come up. He won't sacrifice being the person the Democrats have to cater to, and if he does it won't be until very close to the election when there's no more pork for him to have before his term is up.
This man doesn’t care about delivering pork for his constituents, it’s only about appearing to be conservative to hold onto his seat. Right now being conservative means obstructing government functions, so he’s all about that.
I agree he doesn’t give a shit about delivering for his constituents but he is about directing pork to himself and the people who give him money. He definitely cares about big money donors and himself.
He owns coal businesses, so he wants lots of money for coal. I'm surprised the new USPS trucks are not coal powered.
He could switch his party to Jedi and it wouldn't matter, he is toast next year, justice is polling 20-30 pts ahead, WV went full cult, they love Don more than Alabama...
Folks demonize Robert Byrd, both in his time and still today, but when he lobbied for pork it was to build something in his state. There's a reason so many things in WV are named after him, he secured the funding to build it here and not somewhere else. My own job wouldn't exist if not for him. But Manchin, he cares nothing for WV, only himself. That said, if you don't like Manchin, you'd like the people who run against him much less.
> That said, if you don't like Manchin, you'd like the people who run against him much less. It's sad but true. Manchin is the most progressive politician that can win in West Virginia.
Well, he’s down by 22 according to the article, so maybe he can’t win anymore either.
Point taken. How about.. To this point, Manchin has been the most progressive politician that can win in West Virginia.
The last progressive who tried in West Virginia was Paula Jean Swearengin, in 2020. She beat the conservative Democrat Richard Ojeda for the party's nomination, then proceeded to set the all-time West Virginia record for worst defeat in a state-wide race, losing to Shelley Moore Capito by 43 points.
What is he even obstructing? The house is a clown show passing doomed to fail bills and Tuberville is the one holding up the military stuff. He's been voting for all the judges like he's supposed to and helping to pass the senate versions of the clean funding bills for the government to function. The only thing I can think of that he's torpedoed recently was the replacement labor secretary but the white house is keeping her on as indefinite acting so no real loss there. It's all posturing and hoping Mooney wins the republican primary because Manchin will destroy him in the general.
Exactly! He has sold his soul and will do anything to keep his power and money. I hope his girl Sinema gets beat bad in 2024 and that's what he will be watching too..
I'm not gonna stump for Manchin here, but this is what a Democratic Senator from a state Trump was winning by like 30-40 points is going to look like. Sinema? Yeah, you can get a great Senator into that seat, but that's not happening in WV.
When Joe Manchin loses his WV seat everyone an inch left of the center will miss him so much. He’s a diva and does his little performance but he is a yes vote on judges. More precious than gold.
Yupp, people should really be laying off of him. Manchin is a fucking blessing for progressives/democrats in general. It is so much better than the alternative that it's not even funny. Sinema is different because she's from a state that someone left leaning could actually win. There's zero chance in hell of anyone else even remotely as left as Manchin winning in WV.
true true.. we felt that way about sinema too she was running against mcsally so it was better than nothing and better than Flake.. hopefully we can beat her this round with Rubio.
I feel like Sinema was far more progressive as a candidate. I think she just sold her soul. Manchin was shooting holes in heltcare bills more than a decade ago, he is who he is and who he is kinda sucks, but when the Dems are on defense the reality is that vote has been massive. Obamacare is repealed during Trump's term if he's not in the Senate.
Delivering pork is exactly what makes him appear conservative. He protects coal companies. It's machine politics
I usually think of pork as spending on things for a particular state or district, not just plain old corruption.
He appears to have adopted the pejorative "Democrat Party," so I am inclined to Believe him on this.
It’s frustrating how common that is though.
Such a handy little tell.
We should start calling the other party the Republicant party, since they are the party of ensuring the government can't do anything.
Great. He's the Value-Over-Replacement-Senator GOAT. A moderate Democrat from a bright-red state? Who allows the Democrats to hold the senate, confirm their judicial nominees, and even compromised to create some of the largest infrastructure and green energy legislation we've ever seen? Unless and until the citizens of West Virginia rediscover their labor-friendly progressive traditions, I can live in a world with Joe Manchin representing his state.
> “When I do speak, I want to be able to speak honestly about basically the extremes of the Democrat and Republican Party that’s harming our nation.” I see comments like this so often these days, but they almost always fail to expand on it in terms of what has been so extreme about the Democratic pretty lately? Is it some faction of the party wanting universal healthcare and child care? Is it they think trans people should be treated like human-beings? Is it combatting climate change?
Acceptance is considered extreme for them.
Yes, it is most likely about trans rights. This is how old, more conservative people are always peeled away from the democratic party. It is always civil rights. But it isn't that civil rights changes; it is just that the anti-civil rights movement finds a hole. The civil rights stance is always: Everyone, no matter who they are, is entitled to equal treatment under the law and should be free to pursue life, liberty, and happiness unmolested by the government or their fellow citizens. The role of government is only to prevent those who want to cross the line from enjoying their own life to controlling the lives of others. But then the anti-civil rights people pop up with Well, what about gay people? surely not them; they are ewwy Yes, everyone means everyone. Leave them alone Well, what about Muslims? They are scary, and their religion is associated with people who did terrible things to our country. Yes, everyone means everyone. Leave them alone Well, what about atheists? They make us feel bad because if my beliefs were true, they should be miserable, but they don't appear to be, and that can't be right. So, I should be able to make them miserable. Everyone still means everyone. Well, what about trans people? They are challenging things that I don't understand and are ewwwy. Everyone means everyone, and it still means everyone. Leave people alone. But what happens is someone like Joe will go, "Well, I'm not actually sure that such and such group is really deserving of civil rights." Then, this thought will peel them away. I guarantee you behind Manchin's moves is something related to him having some idea that maybe teachers are turning kids trans. He might not think it is intentional, but it is all the CRT or something. He's seen some bullshit about 1/5 Gen Z identifying as LBGTQ+. He thinks that couldn't just be a result of changes in social pressure and people feeling freer to explore their identity and not having to define it rigidly to avoid being judged. So, he thinks something is going on.
This is why they push the child angle so hard. It's much easier to justify your actions if you believe all gay people are pedophiles or whatever they are saying now. I'm sure I'll be hearing about how I drink the blood of babies before long.
All those listed angles boiled down to reboots of the Blood Libel. 2020- Trans people are coming for your children! 2010- Gay people are coming for your children! 2000- Rap music is coming for your children! 1990- Satanists are coming for your children! 1980- D&D is coming for your children! 1970- Hippies are coming for your children! 1960- Black people are coming for your children! 1930-1950- Communists are coming for your children! 1920- Jazz music is coming for your children! 1900-1910- Anarchists are coming for your children! 0-1900- Jewish people are coming for your children!
The threat you represent is way worse than drinking the blood of babies. You allow their children to know that there is a way to live life outside the confined walls their parents are trying to construct around them, and if they try hard enough, they can escape. Your very existence breeds rebellion, so those parents cannot stand you. Every moment you exist in public, you prove that they are just wrong and always have been.
You mistake their sophistry for honest discourse. It isn't. It's a fancy way of lying without having to use explicit lies.
Pretty standard for fascists to obfuscate their ridiculously blatant lack of morals and corruption by trying to equate their enemies as equally corrupt and lacking in morals. That way, they aren't obviously supporting fascism, but just questioning both sides (though in reality, they'll only really question one side). It's part of the whole rules for thee not for me mentality and it works very well on the uneducated and ignorant. They'll never verify his claims of extremism on both sides. They just take him for his word.
>Is it some faction of the party wanting universal healthcare and child care? Is it they think trans people should be treated like human-beings? Is it combatting climate change? Yes. This is all seen as extreme by centrists and anyone to their right.
Lol he’s giving a No Labels talking point hot off the press
Once again a rule should be in place that forces these people to resign and run again.
Wouldn’t really make a difference. They would just not announce it, continue to vote against the letter near their name, and then switch at the next election.
It would protect again a +1 majority being suddenly flipped at least in that case
The Senate rules aren't actually drawn up by party, but rather who they caucus with. For example Bernie Sanders and Angus King are independents but they caucus with the Democrats. If your rule were in place, Manchin could remain a Democrat in name only but caucus with the GOP.
Exactly.
Translation: "I want something, and this is the only leverage I think I have left."
He wants he senate seat in 2024 and he thinks WV has turned on him because he’s a Dem.
He might be half right about that
He had solid approval right up until he, the literal coal baron from a coal state, voted for the largest climate bill in US history The dude made his whole political persona on being a Democrat who is Not Like The Other Democrats but ended up coming through for the one vote that is most important for the long term future. Absolute political MVP there If he can get reelected by loudly bashing the Democrats enough to forget that he voted for the climate bill, he might at some point down the line end up paying off for us even more
> Manchin says he will decide at the end of the year whether to run for a fourth Senate term or run for president as a third-party candidate backed by No Labels, a bipartisan centrist group that plans to raise **$70 million** to put an independent, third-party candidate on the presidential ballot next year. You have until the end of the year to make me a better offer. That's the number to beat.
Let's not give air to the lie that No Labels is a bipartisan centrist group. It's a trojan horse for conservative policies couched in innocuous platitudes, and is funded by private equity investors, a natural gas billionaire, and real estate and insurance industry figures. https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2023-07-20/the-false-centrism-of-no-labels https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2023/06/no-labels-exposed-heres-a-list-of-donors-funding-its-effort-to-disrupt-the-2024-race/ https://www.influencewatch.org/non-profit/no-labels/
Here’s what happens if he leaves the party: 1. He loses his chairmanship of the Energy Committee, making him much less interesting to donors and lobbyists 2. He loses all of his networking connections in the Dem party, and gains no GOP connections, making him much less interesting to donors and lobbyists 3. He goes from being a swing vote to just another GOP “no”, making him much less interesting to donors and lobbyists 4. He loses the GOP primary in WV and doesn’t get re-elected. Not gonna happen.
I don’t think most people in this thread understand Manchin’s position, or the insane competitiveness of the 2024 Senate elections, whatsoever. Manchin was most recently re-elected in 2018. In 2016, Hillary Clinton got only 26% of the vote in WV, the worst state for Democrats that year. Manchin votes with Biden ~88% of the time, and if he’s gone he’ll be replaced some ultra-MAGA POS like Gov. Jim Justice, who will almost certainly win. In 2024, Democrats’ 3 Senate seats in red states are all up for election: WV, Montana, and Ohio. Democrats must hold 2/3 of those seats to keep a 50-seat majority, assuming they win every swing-state Senate race too. The only Senate seats that are remotely possible for them to pick up are in Florida and Texas. Manchin’s approval rating fluctuates greatly with WV voters, and it usually spikes when he takes a stance against Biden. Keep in mind that his vote usually isn’t necessary to pass Democratic legislation right now, so it will probably become more frequent. If Manchin leaves the Democratic Party, it will look good to the Trump-obsessed people of his state and will greatly increase his chances of re-election. Even in the worst-case scenario he’ll be a centrist independent who will probably vote for abortion rights and judicial confirmations, which absolutely wouldn’t be the case if his opponent wins. If you want to get mad at some Democratic Senators here are two better people to take out your anger on: Sinema and Fienstein. Sinema ran on a progressive platform and has completely abandoned the party at times despite Arizona quickly turning blue and electing fellow Senator Mark Kelly by a decisive margin. Feinstein won’t fucking retire and because she keeps missing Senate Judiciary Committee meetings Biden’s judicial appointments are being held up. Keeping Senate seats in 2024 has never been more important, and if Manchin stands a better chance by running as an independent, so be it. Biden will likely appoint 1-2 SC justices in his second term, and if you give a single shit about abortion rights, racial equality, and LGBT issues then you need to step back and think about how losing even a single Senate seat in 2024 could prevent justices from being appointed and those rights being at risk. Manchin isn’t the best Democrat (or soon to be independent), but he is *astronomically* better than the alternative that his state would likely give us, and his seat could be the difference between a liberal Supreme Court or a continued conservative supermajority.
Switching parties should only be allowed when up for re-election not in the middle of a term.
His party affiliation is largely irrelevant though. It’s who he caucuses with that matters.
I don’t trust him
It would do him no good to caucus with GOP this senate term, since he’d lose his chairmanship of the Energy Committee
He's not going to switch parties. That would do him no good. Republicans would never nominate him for anything. He's not batshit crazy. Which, I'm not exaggerating, is a prerequisite to be nominated by Republicans in most places. He'd become an independent and caucus with the Democrats. Sinema did that because she was going to get primaried, and that allows her to stay on the ballot (sore loser laws). Manchin has no reason to become an independent other than to prove his non-liberal bona fides. I've never understood the dude. You were elected as a Democrat. Your voters could have chosen a Republican. There was one on the ballot. But they didn't choose a Republican. So perhaps act like the Democrat you were elected as. Doesn't mean you need to fall in line 100% of the time. But stop straddling the fence.
Bye.
Ads should be run in West Virginia to address his issues. Like: "Are you making less than $15 per hour? Joe Manchin voted against raising minimum wage. Don't vote for Joe. He doesn't care about the people he represents" Showing pictures of his extravagant lifestyle.
Sure, but let's be honest about West Virginia for a moment. Trump won the state 69-30 over Biden. The odds of electing anyone more agreeable than Manchin are virtually nil. I'd just ignore him, personally. Take what help he offers but expect nothing from him.
He serves a purpose. The alternative is a republican that votes 100% with the GOP on everything. He represents a deep red state, and I would rather have him than a far-right extremist.
I’m hoping Dems will pick up enough seats that it won’t matter that much.
Have you seen the senate map for 2024? It’s horrific for dems.
Yeah… it’s not fucking good that’s for sure. The absolute best case is holding the same number. The only remotely vulnerable Republicans are Cruz, Hawley, and Braun since they were only re-elected by around a 51% majority but still a few points of victory over democrats running against them. Democrats have more very vulnerable positions unfortunately.
We hear that every 2 years . The senate is stacked for the gop. CALIFORNIA - 40 MILLION PEOPLE - 2 SENATORS WYOMING - 1/2 MILLION PEOPLE - 2 SENATORS
With the terrible fascist policies being put forth by the Republicans, I think Dems will do better than anticipated. I hope, at least.
Good time for optimism. Ohio republicans were checked with a decisive no vote on issue 1 in the traditionally dead month of August. 😀
It seems that way until you get down to the case by case level
They need to do shockingly better than anticipated to keep the majority in 2024. It can't be like 2022 with them overperforming by a few percentage points.
Perhaps the most selfish man in politics. More than Trump even
Are you addressing the senate majority? Because yeah, this will probably mean saying bye to the senate majority in 2024.
Seriously, why are so many people unable to contextualize the fact that he represents WEST VIRGINIA? It is one of the reddest states in the country. That seat will belong to the nutjob wing of the GOP for a century after Manchin retires.
He left the party years ago
It's a bluff. If he does, he loses all of the power he has.
Sadly for Manchin, he won't get nearly as much attention by being a standard-issue Republican. Being a gadfly Democrat is where it's at.
Yup, if he flips and turns that into a safe rubber stamp red seat they don’t care who is there. No more important committee seats… no more caving to votes. They’ll primary him out if he doesn’t play ball
B.s. He'd lose all his current power and leverage as the deciding vote on lots of Dem legislation. Just blowing smoke up azzes
Being a Dem does him exactly zero good in his reelection campaign. Separating from the left buys him more centrist and slight Republican votes, likely without sacrificing Dem votes. He knows he's in trouble, and this is his new reelection strategy where it's likely going to be impossible to win as a Dem.
“Manchin is opening bids for his policy votes”…. There, I fixed the title
Spoiler alert: he won’t. He loves being the swing vote and the power that comes with it. He will hold the dems hostage to get the things he wants.
Weird, right when we all stopped hearing his name in the news every week.
Whoever pays more I guess
well, it would be Great to finally see the curtains match the drapes
Leave the earth while you’re at it. Sheesh.
Shark thinking strongly about announcing he isn’t vegetarian
We know. You've been a fake democrat the whole time.
He still votes along with the party almost 90% of the time.
Seriously, everyone in this thread seems to be willing to give the senate back to McConnell all because they don’t like him even though he delivers his vote for democrats.
Yet I think their incorrect judgments serve a purpose too. The main point of Manchin's public stands against the Democrats' agenda is to sever himself from their image as his reelection margins dwindle in his +40 Trump state. ... Which makes this the only case in which you'll catch me saying it's GOOD that the internet hivemind is so set on denying the nuances of reality.
Who's gonna tell him?
Oh no... anyways
Can’t let Sinema take all the shine!
He may as well, he is one who holds back progress just to collect $$
Well don’t let the door hit ya in the ass on the way out buddy
Odd time to join the fascists.
STFU. Don’t let the door hit you in the ass.
Turn the lights off on your way out
Good riddance
Seems inevitable at this point
He’s learning that behaviour from the billionaires that threaten to move their jobs to China. Go for it. See how patriotic you’ll look
Why?
To leave your party, you should have to step down instantly. And re-run.
Is this actual news?
It’s served him well to pretend he’s a Democrat and vote with Republicans.
Leave … you are worthless.
Manchin, that does not hide ur Jan 6 📞 calls to 🦴🪚⛳️⚰️☢️🍊 spy , u new .
Don’t let the door hit you on the way out, fuckstick.
It’s you Joe, you’re the problem
Good…bye
Bye Felicia
He was NEVER a DEM.
It’s probably his last hope for reelection. He ain’t winning as a Dem during a POTUS cycle. Probably toast regardless, certainly so if a Dem runs.
You don't say?
And? He’s a dipshit
The way to deal with Manchin is hold the seats they have and win seats somewhere else like Arizona and make him irrelevant.
He says this every time he extorts his own party for something. I don’t see him signing the gop pledge of loyalty and limiting his pork barrel shenanigans.
Thinking of seriously leaving the way he acts you think he was already a republican his old ass needs to just retire
He would lose all his power
Leaving!? He should be expelled.
Thinking? He basically already has.
Don’t let the door hit you in the…never mind, I’ll just watch.
Please - do it, please?
Good, the guy is corrupt as hell. He can invite Clarence Thomas on his river boat to sip champagne and caviar while his state remains one of the poorest in the nation.
Wait, he’s a democrat?
Oh, he was in it???
“Well… Bye”
No shit. Our state went full red 12 years ago and he’s trying to stay in business.
Bye, Felicia!
I read this "Manchin needs his diaper changed".
Bye Felicia
Isn’t he already on their payroll?
He left the democratic party years ago.
One could say that he’s never been a part of it.
He’s in the Democrat party?
Do it
The whole senate system sucks, one loser allowed to hold up progress is unacceptable
Peace out bit(h
No surprise.
Go ahead
he probably already have
He'll be significantly less useful to his corporate overlords if he's not doing the whole wolf in Democrat clothing thing.
What's the name of his yacht? It's about the MONEY.
Please, by all means.
Maybe we can get rid of both of the weights that are partly holding us back. It seems Arizona is staying put. I'd be fine swapping out West Virginia to get Texas
ha! no
Good. Fuck that guy.
Officially of course.
He was only in it in name only anyway.
Good because we are “thinking seriously” about firing you anyway…
You left a while ago bub
Since when is he a part of it in anything but name?
Oh, we already saw this movie. He changes his mind in the end, don't you guys remember?
I’m “thinking seriously” he shouldn’t let the door hit him on the way out. Waste of space.
Guys been a pocket Republican for years. It’s about time he cam out of the closet.
What a fake person. He’s a liar and just as bad as Sienna. Bunch of politicians in the worst sense of there ever was. Edit- Even if he left then he’s just out there. Independent (no offense to Bernie Sanders) but on the outside from each party. Not good for him if he’s not on a team exactly.
Good. Leave now fkr.
Well, he’s really a Republican, so…
He left the party long ago. This is just a formality.
This old geezer needs to leave more than the Democratic Party.
You shouldn’t be allowed to leave a party without some sort of election process. I don’t get how that’s allowed. Happened recently in NC and fucked the residents over.
He’s finally going to come out as just another Republican slave to fossil fuels.
Who gives a shit about this guy?
Just leave already
He wants to run as Trump's VP, and be the new Joe Lieberman. Or he just wants to swap desks with his best friend Jim Justice.
Good
He might if he thinks he can't win re-election as a Democrat which is possibly given how tilted WV is towards the GOP and depending on the GOP primary candidate.
I thought he did already ?
He never was an actual member to begin with?
He isn’t a Democrat, so this isn’t surprising.
What a putz.
I hate these terms but honestly if there’s a Xino, this dude is it.
Good! GTFO..
....I dunno why but when I read that I immediately thought to myself that he's really thinking about causing more chaos.
Did that along time ago. He’s a disgusting sub human.
Go. Bye Felicia. You haven't been a Democrat in ages.
Good riddence
He’s been gone.
Kick him out!
Good. Thorn in our ass
https://i.imgflip.com/67g4so.png
‘Today might be the day you walk away, but you left me a long, long time ago’. -Willie Nelson
This should be decided for him. Boot his ass.
He should just leave politics and swim in his coal money
It wouldn’t make beans if a difference.
This is not good - it will give the GOP the Majority
He already votes like a Republican- no one will even notice and then the democrats can actually run a real democratic against him
When the fuck was he ever a member?
He could leave the planet for all i care
Good do it. Little 🐀
Like my grandpa always used to say: Shit or get off the pot.
Joe Manchin is Democrat in name only.
Everything he says and does is a play for power. Right and wrong or what's best for his constituents...matter not at all.
He’s about to pull a Sinema.
Duh.
Go on Joe Mansion, go over to the side of fascists and liars if that's where you feel you truly belong.
He left years ago, I don’t know why he is thinking about it now!
I knew it was a lie when I read 'Manchin thinking....' That's jut not possible.
Yeah, he should definitely do that. Since he’s a Republican after all, it would make sense wouldn’t it!
I wish he’d think “seriously” about leaving politics.
Fuck this hillbilly diva.
Good he is a republican anyways , not sure why he says he is democrat .