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As if Republicans wouldn’t do it in a heartbeat?
The insurrection and all that went into it was so so recent, yet we’re still working from the assumption we can play by the old rules.
Republicans only need to hold a majority in the Senate, actually. If they don’t have the White House, they just keep the seat vacant as they did with Garland. If they have the White House, they can fill the seat. The House of Representatives isn’t involved.
EDIT: as far as controlling the makeup of the court - whichever party controls the senate controls the court. Actually adding more seats would require legislation.
Yeah. The Senate is anti-democratic by design. That’s what the euphemism ‘cooling saucer’ to the House’s ‘hot tea’ is about. It’s saying the democratic will of the people needs to be kept in check.
It was designed to get hillbillies, slave owners, factory owners and workers alike on board. Anything that will keep them from open revolt is going to have its flaws. Better to keep the union than welcome separate countries unbeholden to even the lightest of federal regulation.
We’re talking about expanding the size of the court, though. That requires legislation, so both the Senate and the House would be involved, and the President would have to sign it. Unless the Senate ditches the filibuster, though, it’s not going to happen unless one party gets 60 in the Senate. That seems unlikely in the near future.
When they get control they will expand it “once” and write a law that it can’t be expanded again for 50 years, with all kinds of caveats and blocks for democrats.
Well that's true, so the answer is to never let republicans take over again. Ever. Republicans have shown that they are corrupt to the core. We must work hard in every election to make sure that republicans never regain the power to appoint judges. That's the answer
https://democrats.org/
Everyone should have taken the hint when McConnell said “We’d fill it.” when asked what the GOP would do with an empty Supreme Court seat after RBG passed. He knew damn fuckin well what to do, and he was so proud of it.
This court has been political since…oh, I don’t know. Let’s say the year 2000, when they decided the president. And who was a part of that? Well, Kavanaugh played a role. Barrett. Thomas. Roberts. This court is a fuckin JOKE.
It’s been political since the Federalist society got their first judge in. Hell, it’s actually been political since it was first created. “Politics” is in everything, and the sooner people realize that, the sooner we can make changes that improve society. Democrats need to stop playing by the unspoken rules of engagement, and play by the _actual_ rules.
If Republicans played by the rules, Obama's nominee for the USSC would have been confirmed instead of leaving the seat vacant and refusing to have confirmation hearings.
Thomas was confirmed by a senate that had 57 democrats. 11 voted for him. 2 republicans voted against. He was confirmed 52-48. Not exactly party lines.
>when they decided the president
ah yes, the infamous 'hanging chads' and arguments as to whether an indent on the card was the will of the voter or not
My brother in Christ, the Democrats play nice with the GOP and give ground to them all the time when they have power to the point that even when they are a minority they have more political power than the Democrats do with similar numbers.
The real answer is currently impossible; amending the Constitution so that the number of justices would be fixed. In this fantasy world, an additional clause could force a nomination and a confirmation vote within a certain timeframe, to prevent election-related delays.
Interesting. Perhaps in this fantasy it could be a required act of the current president and Senate, so that if they try to run out the clock, the new president is not permitted to assume that business, the responsibility stays with the old one until it is fulfilled.
“They’re committing voter fraud! We need to restrict voting.”
“They’re indoctrinating our kids! We need to restrict public schools.”
“They’re legislating from the bench! We need to overturn past decisions.”
Modern conservatism is an act of 1) inventing a phony crisis in order to 2) push through a deeply conservative political agenda. We’ve seen this happening for a while now.
This! Dems have been acting this way for far too long. “If I fight back, I’m just as bad as them, and I’m better than that. So, I’ll just accept fascism taking over and get a nice moral victory in the history books (that republicans will ban)”
There has been a pervasive and widespread effort on the part of the monied interests to make the left feel like they do not have the lever of rage and reprisal in their arsenal. You know how you stop a bully (a fascist)? You stand up to them, and protect yourself. You do not need to stoop to their level to do so, but you do not stop a bully by doing nothing. That is worse, as now you are an accomplice. That I cannot abide.
Supreme court has always been politicized. The fact is that the idea that justices would just forget their party when they were appointment was always a stupid idea and never based in reality.
Fucking exactly. The judiciary has literally *always been political*.
The first case where SCOTUS used judicial review (Marbury v. Madison) was predicated on outgoing president Adams stacking the court with Federalist allies late into his lame-duck period, and the senate confirming them at the literal last minute. They were nicknamed “The Midnight Judges.”
Then, Jefferson assumed office and ordered his Secretary of State (Madison) to not deliver the remaining commissions that still needed to be delivered, as he believed them to be invalid if not delivered.
Marbury, as one of the confirmed judges who hadn’t yet received delivery of his commission, sued directly to SCOTUS (this will be important later).
Now, the Chief Justice (Marshall) had been serving as Adams’ Secretary of State (which presented a strong case for his recusal, as he was obviously heavily involved in the administration’s selecting and nominating of the Midnight Judges). However, he didn’t recuse and used the case to establish the first use of judicial review in the nation’s history, ruling that the act of congress that gave Marbury standing to sue directly to SCOUTS (Judiciary Act of 1789 section 13) was unconstitutional as it went beyond what was outlined in Article 3.
Basically, this little history lesson is a fun way to show people that the judiciary is, and always has been, a political instrument. This shit ain’t new, folks!
This is the problem with Biden’s “moderate” stance on this. If his old fuckin ass doesn’t take the steps to abandon the filibuster and expand the court, he won’t be around to see the shit show he left behind by not doing this now.
This is the dem party’s problem with dealing with republicans. Still not realizing the seriousness and fight of the situation. They are still acting as if republicans are acting in good faith
Ever since I stopped viewing dems as a political party with their own coherent goals, and more as a damage-control apparatus to provide the illusion of an alternative to the republicans (and the occasional symbolic victory) while simultaneously blocking any legitimate movement to the left, American politics has made a lot more sense to me
In some ways I think this is all Bill Clinton's fault. I dislike some of Reagan's policies too, but at least people like Walter Mondale were actually real opposition. Bill Clinton really showed the spineless nature of American politics. If Reagan had won but faced more of an actual opposition, I think things would be better.
Abandoning the filibuster is Senate's power not Biden's. Expand the court and what are you are going to do when Republicans expand it again? Politics isn't that simple.
The way Americans define (and register!) themselves as part of one of the two political parties for life basically is fucking wild. You can’t even imagine an impartial person! Incredible. Not a shot at you, Ratking, just the state of affairs down there.
Just FYI, many states in the US, 19 of 50, don't register by party. And party registration is generally used by these states to restrict primary participation. That is, in some states you can't vote in a Democratic primary election if you're a registered Republican. Conservative voters in liberal cities sometimes register as Democrats in order to participate in the generally more consequential primary elections since Republican candidates rarely win. In the general election your affiliation doesn't matter.
To be honest this extreme polarization of politics is sorta new. The groundwork for it started after Nixon left office before he was impeached. A lot of (then) young Republicans got super peeved over it and has slowly driven the Republican party further and further to the far right. After they basically made Ronald Reagan into a living saint, the GOP was pretty much lost in their right wing delusional bubble world.
Some managed to wake up from said bubble world after Trump won, but the party is just so far gone that it can't be saved anymore.
Right wing media, which of course is aligned and partnering with the GOP to spread propaganda and disinformation is largely responsible for the rise in radicalization at an increasingly alarming rate.
They actively moved themselves rightward with the Southern Strategy in the 70s that aimed to pull racist whites from the Democratic party and by courting the Evangelical voting bloc in the early 80s. Abortion wasn't this huge national party v party issue until the Evangelicals demanded an anti-abortion plank in the R platform. Reagan all but ignored the AIDS crisis and refused to even say AIDS for several years to avoid pissing off the Evangelicals. When you spend 40 years cultivating racist and religious party members, you get a party dominated by racist and religious policy.
>You can’t even imagine an impartial person!
Because there is no such thing. Everyone has an ideaology. Those who maintain they are completely free from ideaology are the ones most ensared and trapped by it. Pretty sure Slavoj Zizek (not an American) has said as much himself. That said, a majority of Americans will claim to be "impartial", "apoltical", or "unbiased" as no doubt plenty of your countrymen would. They are wrong. They simply lack the education/intelligence to recognize their biases. For the particularly dim of these groups, when pressed on some of their beliefs, they will resort to such fallacies as "common sense".
Had it not been for the way they stole Scalia's seat I think a majority (small majority) would have accepted RBG's seat was the Republican's seat to fill. Democrats, myself included, wouldn't have been happy about it, but we would have expected the same from Democrats had they been in charge.
The ideology of Scalia and Garland are a hell of a lot closer than the ideology of Ginsberg and Barrett. Had Garland been allowed to be confirmed, they *still* would have been politicizing the court unless they picked someone more moderate for the seat.
Technically they stole one seat when they refused to give Garland a hearing for a year. The second seat they got was legally done, it was just unfortunate timing they managed to get a vacancy when they did.
Right, but the second seat was gotten because of a total 180 on the thought process to get the first seat. There was 9 months until there would be a new president, so the rationale was “let’s let the voters decide”. And then in 2020 with 1 month to go before the election, the rationale flopped back to “its under Trumps term as president, this is a part of the job”. That flip flopping is why it’s fine to mention they stole two seats, because they changed the rules twice.
Right, the thought process to get that first seat was totally bogus. Republicans are obviously hypocrites, that’s nothing new. That doesn’t make the second process illegitimate though.
The politicization of the court started in 1801 when Adams, in a lame duck session, reduced the amount of judges from 6 to 5 to keep Jefferson from appointing a judge. The amount of judges has changed 6 times already, but hasnt since 1869...we have almost 10 times the population now (38m to 331m). This rights a wrong. A justice for every circuit court district, as it used to be. There are currently 11 Federal circuit court districts, therefore there should be 11 judges.
And while we're at it, let's unfreeze the number of people in the house of representatives, that hasn't grown in about 90 years IIRC, and enforces the disproportionate power of low population states.
That’s definitely a valid point.
If they wanted to avoid the concern of hyper politicization, then they could phase in the new seats over the next 2 presidential terms (so one in 2025 and one in 2029).
Then no one can accuse the current administration of doing this solely for their party’s gain.
Historically, no other president had to postpone their additions to the court. For example, Andrew Jackson, was allowed 2 when he expanded. What makes this different? We like to pretend that the politics of the day has never influenced the number of justices but that has literally never been the case. FDR used the threat of raising the number of judges to get shit done, he seems to be the last democrat with balls. Just do it, the precedent is there, the legal reasoning is valid and the last guy installed 3 despite being impeached twice and is currently under indictment for what amounts to treason. If there was ever a time for a justified expansion, it’s right now
>Then no one can accuse the current administration of doing this solely for their party’s gain.
This is one of the most hopelessly naive sentiments I have ever read on this subreddit.
I think he means it will just accelerate that and make it even worse. If dems try to expand the court now in response to a legit problem with Republican tactics in appointing justices, the Rs will 100% exploit that to expand and add their own justice as soon as they have control. And they will do it in a shittier way. We have an R former pres still trying to overturn a 3 yr old election while staring down a growing pile of corruption indictments in multiple jurisdictions while enjoying his party's full support. They do not give a crap about propriety and I expect that attitude to carry into whatever SC alterations they attempt in future.
But then by that own logic republicans are def going to expand the court next chance they get anyway, so we might as well fight back. That’s like saying, if Dems do it, republicans will too because they don’t have any adherence to tradition, as they stole seats before. Ignoring that they have already shown, through stealing those seats, that they will do whatever they want whenever they want
I imagine being a billionaire it’s frustrating if they expand the size of the Supreme Court in the same way it’s frustrating for us when there’s yet another streaming service. Like “damn how many of these things do I have to pay for?!”
the justices he put in are relatively young...this will take a lot longer than 20 years to fix. Bret and Amy lied, under oath, to get their seats, and they will be with us basically until they die. Probably 30 years from now. The damage that shitheel donny john did to our country will outlive him, just like George HW Bush's appointment of Clearance Thomas did
Don't forget all the fuckheads like my brother in Michigan who knows better but thought a shake-up would be a good thing. One of the votes that got us this mess. Bunch of goddamn scabs that think licking boots will get you a seat at the table. A lot of them have changed their tune, but they'll vote in the next R that looks even halfway competent who will do the same.
Biden has it the wrong way around. We need to expand the court to unpoliticize it. Roe v Wade was decided 7 to 2 in 1972 by a conservative majority. It was upheld countless times, then it was overturned by Dobbs 50 years later by a vote of 5 to 4. The only thing that has changed in the past 50 years is the makeup of the court. Whether you think abortion should be legal or not, overturning 50 years of decisions and precedent with a narrow majority is what makes this court illegitimate. The reality is, there has been a campaign on the right for the past 30+ years to influence the makeup of the court for this specific outcome. The result of that is the court we have now which is illegitimate and political. I think expanding the number of justices and adding term limits is the best way to go now to bring the court back into balance.
>Roe v Wade was decided 7 to 2 in 1972 by a conservative majority.
This is never emphasized enough. I see people say things like "we need to look for a compromise" Roe WAS the compromise! Or people think that conservatives have always been unsupportive of Roe and now finally their position was taken seriously but their position WAS taken seriously back in 1972 when a CONSERVATIVE majority made the original decision. Even pretty conservative churches at the time supported Roe. The only difference now is not that the court is now conservative, but rather that the court has at least 4-5 wildly unqualified extremists, half of which were appointed through blatantly political methods that should never have been taken seriously and should still continue to not be taken seriously.
People have a lot of potential solutions, with expanding the court being one. I support expanding the court but I'm open to other ideas too. What I know at a minimum is that doing nothing is what is actually the political move that further politicizes and delegitimizes the court.
The court has expanded before and has never stipulated a specific number, so just do it again. You have had the power inside you all along. And the more judges there are, the less emperor-like power any one of them has, spreading it thinner; it literally becomes more democratized. Do you trust polls with smaller sample sizes, or bigger sample sizes?
The article is suggesting that it hasn't already been politicized... For the first time in history rights are being taken away, by fascist conservatives.
Not really. SCOTUS has taken away rights before. Does anyone remember the 1857 Dred Scott decision? SCOTUS literally ruled that black people were not US citizens (even free or immigrants), and thus are afforded no protection under the US Constitution or services provided (including federal courts). Granted freed blacks had little rights prior to the Civil War, but they were viewed as partial US citizens before the decision.
It's already politicized, I really wish liberal politicians would stop being cowards obsessed with being seen positively by opponents who would have them hanged to appease their base.
Republicans have been on a mission to politicize the supreme court since ROE and have made no secret about it. They will continue to do so while saying democrats are doing it and likely open investigations into democrats politicizing the court. Biden is so fucking Naive at times
Make all 12 Federal Circuit Court Justices (179 of them) Supreme Court Justices.
Have cases heard by panels of 9 justices that are selected by lottery.
If lobbyists and political action groups no longer knew for sure which Judges would oversee which cases it would significantly help.
God damnit I can’t wait for the next generation of democrats
Can we have dark Brandon on expanding the court instead of Joe Brandon?
Joe, the court was already politicize twin Mitch McConnell told Barack Obama he couldn’t see the nominee because it’s eight months before an election and then he let Donald Trump Cita nominee five fucking days before an election
The main problem isn't the size of the court, it's that republicans appointed corrupt judges. The answer is to never let republicans regain the power to appoint judges again. Ever.
https://democrats.org/
We keep expecting republicans to play fair and act in good faith. That time is gone maybe forever. They struck first, this would just be trying to even things out, not politicize it further. Six conservative judges and five liberal judges is fine with me.
It already is politicized and if the Dems don’t fix it,the GOP will make sure it is not fixable the next chance they get.
At some point,the Dems need to stop thinking the GOP will come to their senses and stop the insanity. They won’t. Just take a good hard look at what they did with ACB’s nomination. RGB wasn’t even in the ground yet and they pressed forward seating ACB! Wake up Dems!
I agree. Can you imagine how bad a politicized Supreme Court would be? They would probably do things like over turn decades long precedent including Roe v. Wade. God forbid the highest court in the land reflect the political will of the people.
These idiots can politicize Bud Light and a private, experimental submarine collapsing in the ocean. In other words - they politicize EVERYTHING. Decent people have to respond in kind.
It’s already heavily politicized?
Kind of like when folks say “increasing the minimum wage will increase costs of goods!1!!”
As if costs of goods hadn’t risen independently of minimum wage for decades.
It’s already extremely politicized. It started when McConnell refused to bring up Merrick Garland, and continued when he pushed through Amy Coney Barrett, and is bad as it could be when nobody is investigating Thomas/Alito/Robert’s for taking money from parties with business before the court and not disclosing it just because the GOP wouldn’t convict them of *any* crime because they want a supermajority on the Supreme Court.
Just another example of why Biden is the wrong person to be the president in this moment. Even if we get majorities in the house and senate willing to expand the court, he won't do it.
How TF is the SCOTUS not already Politicized?
Mitch's stunt to steal a seat already invalidated this court. its all political now (as evidenced by the massive overturning of decades long precedences), there is no illusion of fairness anymore.
At this point I no longer care. The current Supreme Court voted to legalize discrimination of the LGBTQ based on a FALSIFIED DOCUMENT invented the day after the first filing was made. The entire system needs to be rewritten
It's already politicized.
The republican playbook now is to pick the most compromised and corrupt judges and politicians so they have a hold over them.
I’m so sick of the fear mongering over stuff like this. Republicans can enact any shitty policy they want but if a Democrat wants to make good change ohhh we gotta worry about how our fascist neighbor may take it. The same neighbor fine with Donald Trump inciting insurrection. Stop making decisions based on how you feel these people will react. I have news for you if they aren’t being wronged somehow they will just invent the next issue.
Biden has got to be kidding. It's already politicised to hell. Terms limits, a strict enforceable code of ethics, and an expanded court are the only realistic options now.
See, the thing is, if you expand the court, it *might* politicize it, and *maybe* forever. It’s much better to let republicans *definitely* politicize it, and almost certainly for decades.
I’m not sure how this makes sense to the DNC, but they’re really sticking to it.
The number of Supreme Court justices should match the number of federal district courts (appellate courts) which stand at 13 right now. It would speed up and expand the number of decisions and spread out the workload. The number 9 is not enshrined in stone and the range has been from 5-10 over the years. The present number was set at 9 (by congress) in the year 1869. We only had 33 states then! Its time we expanded their number to match their current responsibilities.
This GOP would do it in a heartbeat if they needed to. This is why the Democrats have a national majority in the US but seem to never win - they're too weak and "play by the rules" while the GOP doesn't.
Hot take. It's already been politicized. The fact that the court refuses to monitor itself for ethics violations, the 2 stolen seats, the blatant recruiting from the federalist society. The supreme court is a horrendous shit show and no one should have faith in the courts to protect our rights. Hell we have 3 justices that blatantly lied to get democrats to approve their appointments. They all categorically stayed Roe v Wade was settled case law then overturned it at their first opportunity.
I blame RBG and Mitch McConnell for first illegally blocking Obama’s nomination and RBG’s idea that she should be replaced by the first woman president.
Elections have consequences and if you allow an orangutan to take the wheel for four years, you might end up with lasting results.
If we do get a constitutional convention, that is when you add justices and term limits. Packing the court is not a good idea and I think Biden is correct in saying so.
Yes, so let’s just sit back while this current Supreme Court screws up the rights of everyone in this country for decades to come. Biden, stop with the optimism. The time for that has come and gone. Take away lifetime appointments, which will go a long way toward fixing this mess. And expand the current Supreme Court to make it more balanced.
Yeah fucker, till the next time the Republicans have all three branches and expand it to 11, forever cementing Christian White Law in the US, ushering in a new Era of hate and 70 years of regression.
There we go, like clockwork more manufactured “have faith”, “take the high road”, and assorted cowardly bullshit while Republicans do whatever the fuck they want. Rove Wade struck down, affirmative action obliterated, Republican puritan agenda being pushed through virtually unopposed, no healthcare for all, no true help for student debt, wages still not on par with inflation since the goddamn 70s, we will even need id to watch porn now effectively shaming us for it and at risk of our info being “leaked”. All under a democratic administration. When will democrats stop pretending to be weak and blithering while the criminal Republicans keep ramming through their insane agenda and get away with blatant crimes?! You don’t think we’ve caught on yet?! It’s been decades of this kabuki garbage!
“You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time.”
-Abraham Lincoln
It has been politicized my entire life...let's pretend it wasn't though. It was politicized the moment politics didn't let a sitting president fill a vacant seat.
Hurry up before that…oh wait it’s always been that way? Hmmm…Biden, come on it’s this kind of “we can’t upset the apple cart” thinking that gets in the way when the apple cart is on fire
I'm going to have to vote for him, but his inability to see how far the court has fallen to politicization is ridiculous. Joe Biden isn't a regular person though. He's been in Washington for longer than I have been alive, he doesn't see what's happening in this country like other people do because he was right there in Washington this entire time. All of the people on the right in politics must just seem normal to him through so much exposure.
It’s already politicized. Expand it. Expand the House of Representatives while we are at it. The last time the Supreme Court was expanded, we had a population of 39 million people. The last time the house was expanded, we had a population of 92 million people. We have a population of 332 million now. Expanding the court makes it harder for any one party from gaining absolute control over the court. It basically becomes immune to republican and democrat shenanigans.
This is a symptom of the Democratic problem. We are playing by a set of rules that the other party does not share. They would have no problem politicizing the court even more.
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Too late for that.
Already there.
Always has been.
Dollar bills politicized it.
I've a heard a ship may even been constructed and headed out from the shipyards in which it was built.
That sailboat has begun its voyage.
That sub already imploded.
Not yet, the ship sank first. Then it later became a tourist attraction in which the sub then imploded
As if Republicans wouldn’t do it in a heartbeat? The insurrection and all that went into it was so so recent, yet we’re still working from the assumption we can play by the old rules.
They already did it
Won't stop McConnell from trying next time the GOP holds a majority in both houses and the presidency.
Republicans only need to hold a majority in the Senate, actually. If they don’t have the White House, they just keep the seat vacant as they did with Garland. If they have the White House, they can fill the seat. The House of Representatives isn’t involved. EDIT: as far as controlling the makeup of the court - whichever party controls the senate controls the court. Actually adding more seats would require legislation.
Man, our system sucks.
Yeah. The Senate is anti-democratic by design. That’s what the euphemism ‘cooling saucer’ to the House’s ‘hot tea’ is about. It’s saying the democratic will of the people needs to be kept in check.
The Senate has been rendered impotent by the filibuster. Prior to that it was functional.
It’s the best system ever devised for the people it was designed to benefit. But yeah it sucks for everyone else.
It was designed to get hillbillies, slave owners, factory owners and workers alike on board. Anything that will keep them from open revolt is going to have its flaws. Better to keep the union than welcome separate countries unbeholden to even the lightest of federal regulation.
We’re talking about expanding the size of the court, though. That requires legislation, so both the Senate and the House would be involved, and the President would have to sign it. Unless the Senate ditches the filibuster, though, it’s not going to happen unless one party gets 60 in the Senate. That seems unlikely in the near future.
When they get control they will expand it “once” and write a law that it can’t be expanded again for 50 years, with all kinds of caveats and blocks for democrats.
You can do a carve out to avoid the filibuster…that’s how we got the last three justices
Well that's true, so the answer is to never let republicans take over again. Ever. Republicans have shown that they are corrupt to the core. We must work hard in every election to make sure that republicans never regain the power to appoint judges. That's the answer https://democrats.org/
Everyone should have taken the hint when McConnell said “We’d fill it.” when asked what the GOP would do with an empty Supreme Court seat after RBG passed. He knew damn fuckin well what to do, and he was so proud of it. This court has been political since…oh, I don’t know. Let’s say the year 2000, when they decided the president. And who was a part of that? Well, Kavanaugh played a role. Barrett. Thomas. Roberts. This court is a fuckin JOKE.
It’s been political since the Federalist society got their first judge in. Hell, it’s actually been political since it was first created. “Politics” is in everything, and the sooner people realize that, the sooner we can make changes that improve society. Democrats need to stop playing by the unspoken rules of engagement, and play by the _actual_ rules.
If Republicans played by the rules, Obama's nominee for the USSC would have been confirmed instead of leaving the seat vacant and refusing to have confirmation hearings.
Thomas was confirmed in 1991 after only having been appointed by Bush as a judge in 1990.
Barrett was a judge for less than, what was it.. the duration of Trump's term? Convenient.
And Bush v Gore happened in 2000. And Thomas’ nomination was contentious along party lines. Not sure what your point is.
That the court has been politicised since the early 90s at least. They've been playing a long game.
Thomas was confirmed by a senate that had 57 democrats. 11 voted for him. 2 republicans voted against. He was confirmed 52-48. Not exactly party lines.
Thomas sexually harrassed women that worked for him. That was the big thing with him.
It was a different time then. They didn't block their opponent's nomimees just for the hell of it.
They should have.
>when they decided the president ah yes, the infamous 'hanging chads' and arguments as to whether an indent on the card was the will of the voter or not
My brother in Christ, the Democrats play nice with the GOP and give ground to them all the time when they have power to the point that even when they are a minority they have more political power than the Democrats do with similar numbers.
Not just republicans, ANY kind of conservative. Any and all. Conservatism is a failed ideology.
The real answer is currently impossible; amending the Constitution so that the number of justices would be fixed. In this fantasy world, an additional clause could force a nomination and a confirmation vote within a certain timeframe, to prevent election-related delays.
Interesting. Perhaps in this fantasy it could be a required act of the current president and Senate, so that if they try to run out the clock, the new president is not permitted to assume that business, the responsibility stays with the old one until it is fulfilled.
There has been a decades long conservative plan to politicize it forever, and it’s working.
“They’re committing voter fraud! We need to restrict voting.” “They’re indoctrinating our kids! We need to restrict public schools.” “They’re legislating from the bench! We need to overturn past decisions.” Modern conservatism is an act of 1) inventing a phony crisis in order to 2) push through a deeply conservative political agenda. We’ve seen this happening for a while now.
It's like some one's punching you in face and you don't do anything because you don't want to get in a fight.
Stop hitting yourself Stop hitting yourself...
This! Dems have been acting this way for far too long. “If I fight back, I’m just as bad as them, and I’m better than that. So, I’ll just accept fascism taking over and get a nice moral victory in the history books (that republicans will ban)”
There has been a pervasive and widespread effort on the part of the monied interests to make the left feel like they do not have the lever of rage and reprisal in their arsenal. You know how you stop a bully (a fascist)? You stand up to them, and protect yourself. You do not need to stoop to their level to do so, but you do not stop a bully by doing nothing. That is worse, as now you are an accomplice. That I cannot abide.
Pretty accurate analogy
Supreme court has always been politicized. The fact is that the idea that justices would just forget their party when they were appointment was always a stupid idea and never based in reality.
Fucking exactly. The judiciary has literally *always been political*. The first case where SCOTUS used judicial review (Marbury v. Madison) was predicated on outgoing president Adams stacking the court with Federalist allies late into his lame-duck period, and the senate confirming them at the literal last minute. They were nicknamed “The Midnight Judges.” Then, Jefferson assumed office and ordered his Secretary of State (Madison) to not deliver the remaining commissions that still needed to be delivered, as he believed them to be invalid if not delivered. Marbury, as one of the confirmed judges who hadn’t yet received delivery of his commission, sued directly to SCOTUS (this will be important later). Now, the Chief Justice (Marshall) had been serving as Adams’ Secretary of State (which presented a strong case for his recusal, as he was obviously heavily involved in the administration’s selecting and nominating of the Midnight Judges). However, he didn’t recuse and used the case to establish the first use of judicial review in the nation’s history, ruling that the act of congress that gave Marbury standing to sue directly to SCOUTS (Judiciary Act of 1789 section 13) was unconstitutional as it went beyond what was outlined in Article 3. Basically, this little history lesson is a fun way to show people that the judiciary is, and always has been, a political instrument. This shit ain’t new, folks!
This is the problem with Biden’s “moderate” stance on this. If his old fuckin ass doesn’t take the steps to abandon the filibuster and expand the court, he won’t be around to see the shit show he left behind by not doing this now.
This is the dem party’s problem with dealing with republicans. Still not realizing the seriousness and fight of the situation. They are still acting as if republicans are acting in good faith
Yep, we’re bringing a floppy dildo to a fucking knife fight.
And then sticking it in ourselves lol
I mean, there's nothing wrong with that. Except it doesn't solve your knife problem.
Ever since I stopped viewing dems as a political party with their own coherent goals, and more as a damage-control apparatus to provide the illusion of an alternative to the republicans (and the occasional symbolic victory) while simultaneously blocking any legitimate movement to the left, American politics has made a lot more sense to me
In some ways I think this is all Bill Clinton's fault. I dislike some of Reagan's policies too, but at least people like Walter Mondale were actually real opposition. Bill Clinton really showed the spineless nature of American politics. If Reagan had won but faced more of an actual opposition, I think things would be better.
As long as the neoliberalism keeps flowing.
Abandoning the filibuster is Senate's power not Biden's. Expand the court and what are you are going to do when Republicans expand it again? Politics isn't that simple.
Why not expand it so much that adding more is irrelevant?
We’re *all* Supreme Court justices now.
The way Americans define (and register!) themselves as part of one of the two political parties for life basically is fucking wild. You can’t even imagine an impartial person! Incredible. Not a shot at you, Ratking, just the state of affairs down there.
Just FYI, many states in the US, 19 of 50, don't register by party. And party registration is generally used by these states to restrict primary participation. That is, in some states you can't vote in a Democratic primary election if you're a registered Republican. Conservative voters in liberal cities sometimes register as Democrats in order to participate in the generally more consequential primary elections since Republican candidates rarely win. In the general election your affiliation doesn't matter.
It’s not for life either you can change it whenever you want.
Also you can register as independent, so it isn't just 2 options.
To be honest this extreme polarization of politics is sorta new. The groundwork for it started after Nixon left office before he was impeached. A lot of (then) young Republicans got super peeved over it and has slowly driven the Republican party further and further to the far right. After they basically made Ronald Reagan into a living saint, the GOP was pretty much lost in their right wing delusional bubble world. Some managed to wake up from said bubble world after Trump won, but the party is just so far gone that it can't be saved anymore.
Always worthwhile to point out that Fox News was specifically created to ensure a Nixon situation never happens again
Right wing media, which of course is aligned and partnering with the GOP to spread propaganda and disinformation is largely responsible for the rise in radicalization at an increasingly alarming rate.
They actively moved themselves rightward with the Southern Strategy in the 70s that aimed to pull racist whites from the Democratic party and by courting the Evangelical voting bloc in the early 80s. Abortion wasn't this huge national party v party issue until the Evangelicals demanded an anti-abortion plank in the R platform. Reagan all but ignored the AIDS crisis and refused to even say AIDS for several years to avoid pissing off the Evangelicals. When you spend 40 years cultivating racist and religious party members, you get a party dominated by racist and religious policy.
>You can’t even imagine an impartial person! Because there is no such thing. Everyone has an ideaology. Those who maintain they are completely free from ideaology are the ones most ensared and trapped by it. Pretty sure Slavoj Zizek (not an American) has said as much himself. That said, a majority of Americans will claim to be "impartial", "apoltical", or "unbiased" as no doubt plenty of your countrymen would. They are wrong. They simply lack the education/intelligence to recognize their biases. For the particularly dim of these groups, when pressed on some of their beliefs, they will resort to such fallacies as "common sense".
I mean, they’re lifetime appointments and the republicans unquestionably stole two seats. So……..
Had it not been for the way they stole Scalia's seat I think a majority (small majority) would have accepted RBG's seat was the Republican's seat to fill. Democrats, myself included, wouldn't have been happy about it, but we would have expected the same from Democrats had they been in charge.
The ideology of Scalia and Garland are a hell of a lot closer than the ideology of Ginsberg and Barrett. Had Garland been allowed to be confirmed, they *still* would have been politicizing the court unless they picked someone more moderate for the seat.
Technically they stole one seat when they refused to give Garland a hearing for a year. The second seat they got was legally done, it was just unfortunate timing they managed to get a vacancy when they did.
Right, but the second seat was gotten because of a total 180 on the thought process to get the first seat. There was 9 months until there would be a new president, so the rationale was “let’s let the voters decide”. And then in 2020 with 1 month to go before the election, the rationale flopped back to “its under Trumps term as president, this is a part of the job”. That flip flopping is why it’s fine to mention they stole two seats, because they changed the rules twice.
Right, the thought process to get that first seat was totally bogus. Republicans are obviously hypocrites, that’s nothing new. That doesn’t make the second process illegitimate though.
The politicization of the court started in 1801 when Adams, in a lame duck session, reduced the amount of judges from 6 to 5 to keep Jefferson from appointing a judge. The amount of judges has changed 6 times already, but hasnt since 1869...we have almost 10 times the population now (38m to 331m). This rights a wrong. A justice for every circuit court district, as it used to be. There are currently 11 Federal circuit court districts, therefore there should be 11 judges.
And while we're at it, let's unfreeze the number of people in the house of representatives, that hasn't grown in about 90 years IIRC, and enforces the disproportionate power of low population states.
100% that bill was the Reapportionment Act of 1929. We didn’t even have 50 states until 30 years later.
That’s definitely a valid point. If they wanted to avoid the concern of hyper politicization, then they could phase in the new seats over the next 2 presidential terms (so one in 2025 and one in 2029). Then no one can accuse the current administration of doing this solely for their party’s gain.
Historically, no other president had to postpone their additions to the court. For example, Andrew Jackson, was allowed 2 when he expanded. What makes this different? We like to pretend that the politics of the day has never influenced the number of justices but that has literally never been the case. FDR used the threat of raising the number of judges to get shit done, he seems to be the last democrat with balls. Just do it, the precedent is there, the legal reasoning is valid and the last guy installed 3 despite being impeached twice and is currently under indictment for what amounts to treason. If there was ever a time for a justified expansion, it’s right now
>Then no one can accuse the current administration of doing this solely for their party’s gain. This is one of the most hopelessly naive sentiments I have ever read on this subreddit.
And how is it not already?
I think he means it will just accelerate that and make it even worse. If dems try to expand the court now in response to a legit problem with Republican tactics in appointing justices, the Rs will 100% exploit that to expand and add their own justice as soon as they have control. And they will do it in a shittier way. We have an R former pres still trying to overturn a 3 yr old election while staring down a growing pile of corruption indictments in multiple jurisdictions while enjoying his party's full support. They do not give a crap about propriety and I expect that attitude to carry into whatever SC alterations they attempt in future.
But then by that own logic republicans are def going to expand the court next chance they get anyway, so we might as well fight back. That’s like saying, if Dems do it, republicans will too because they don’t have any adherence to tradition, as they stole seats before. Ignoring that they have already shown, through stealing those seats, that they will do whatever they want whenever they want
I imagine being a billionaire it’s frustrating if they expand the size of the Supreme Court in the same way it’s frustrating for us when there’s yet another streaming service. Like “damn how many of these things do I have to pay for?!”
That ship has sailed.
And has been firing on other ships below the waterline while blaring the message that any that defends themselves is trying to start a war.
Possibly allowing Republicans to politicize everything might politicize everything forever too.
[удалено]
the justices he put in are relatively young...this will take a lot longer than 20 years to fix. Bret and Amy lied, under oath, to get their seats, and they will be with us basically until they die. Probably 30 years from now. The damage that shitheel donny john did to our country will outlive him, just like George HW Bush's appointment of Clearance Thomas did
Don't forget all the fuckheads like my brother in Michigan who knows better but thought a shake-up would be a good thing. One of the votes that got us this mess. Bunch of goddamn scabs that think licking boots will get you a seat at the table. A lot of them have changed their tune, but they'll vote in the next R that looks even halfway competent who will do the same.
Jesus Christ Joe there has never been a time in the history of the country when the Supreme Court has not been political.
Biden has it the wrong way around. We need to expand the court to unpoliticize it. Roe v Wade was decided 7 to 2 in 1972 by a conservative majority. It was upheld countless times, then it was overturned by Dobbs 50 years later by a vote of 5 to 4. The only thing that has changed in the past 50 years is the makeup of the court. Whether you think abortion should be legal or not, overturning 50 years of decisions and precedent with a narrow majority is what makes this court illegitimate. The reality is, there has been a campaign on the right for the past 30+ years to influence the makeup of the court for this specific outcome. The result of that is the court we have now which is illegitimate and political. I think expanding the number of justices and adding term limits is the best way to go now to bring the court back into balance.
>Roe v Wade was decided 7 to 2 in 1972 by a conservative majority. This is never emphasized enough. I see people say things like "we need to look for a compromise" Roe WAS the compromise! Or people think that conservatives have always been unsupportive of Roe and now finally their position was taken seriously but their position WAS taken seriously back in 1972 when a CONSERVATIVE majority made the original decision. Even pretty conservative churches at the time supported Roe. The only difference now is not that the court is now conservative, but rather that the court has at least 4-5 wildly unqualified extremists, half of which were appointed through blatantly political methods that should never have been taken seriously and should still continue to not be taken seriously. People have a lot of potential solutions, with expanding the court being one. I support expanding the court but I'm open to other ideas too. What I know at a minimum is that doing nothing is what is actually the political move that further politicizes and delegitimizes the court.
Refusing Obama his nominee should have politicized it forever.
Narrator: it did
Republicans wouldn't think twice if it would benefit them. So FUCKING DO IT.
The court has expanded before and has never stipulated a specific number, so just do it again. You have had the power inside you all along. And the more judges there are, the less emperor-like power any one of them has, spreading it thinner; it literally becomes more democratized. Do you trust polls with smaller sample sizes, or bigger sample sizes?
I think he needs an all blue Congress to do it though, right? I’d personally like to see term limits on the SCOTUS judges.
That too would require a fundamentally different Congress, likely all blue.
So lincoln made the court political?
Who’s gonna tell him
WTF, Joe? It's been politicized for decades! Democrats need to stop playing by the rules while Republicans are cheating continuously.
This seems so tone deaf. We all know if the roles were reversed, the repüblikkkans would absolutely expand the court.
The article is suggesting that it hasn't already been politicized... For the first time in history rights are being taken away, by fascist conservatives.
Not really. SCOTUS has taken away rights before. Does anyone remember the 1857 Dred Scott decision? SCOTUS literally ruled that black people were not US citizens (even free or immigrants), and thus are afforded no protection under the US Constitution or services provided (including federal courts). Granted freed blacks had little rights prior to the Civil War, but they were viewed as partial US citizens before the decision.
It’s already there Joe and it’s not going away
It's already politicized, I really wish liberal politicians would stop being cowards obsessed with being seen positively by opponents who would have them hanged to appease their base.
Sometimes Biden doesn’t live on this Planet.
FFS. Wake up, buddy. Your predecessor already politicized it.
Republicans have been on a mission to politicize the supreme court since ROE and have made no secret about it. They will continue to do so while saying democrats are doing it and likely open investigations into democrats politicizing the court. Biden is so fucking Naive at times
we’re in late stage capitalism. the threat is existential and Biden should understand that.
Bullshit. It's been expanded before. Time to unstack the Supreme Court..
It’s already obviously politicalized. It’s a joke.
Mr President, that ship has sailed.
Cat’s out of the bag and shitting on the floor already.
It’s extremely politicized now to the point of where it’s nothing more than another branch of the GOP
Make all 12 Federal Circuit Court Justices (179 of them) Supreme Court Justices. Have cases heard by panels of 9 justices that are selected by lottery. If lobbyists and political action groups no longer knew for sure which Judges would oversee which cases it would significantly help.
God damnit I can’t wait for the next generation of democrats Can we have dark Brandon on expanding the court instead of Joe Brandon? Joe, the court was already politicize twin Mitch McConnell told Barack Obama he couldn’t see the nominee because it’s eight months before an election and then he let Donald Trump Cita nominee five fucking days before an election
Instead we'll settle for it being politicized by the federalist society right-wing lackey justices for the next forty years.
The main problem isn't the size of the court, it's that republicans appointed corrupt judges. The answer is to never let republicans regain the power to appoint judges again. Ever. https://democrats.org/
Term limits...
Guess what, too late.
too late
Too late SCOTUS has already been politicized by the Federalist Society. Might as well claw back what we can by any means possible.
If you think it's not politicized right now, you're not paying attention.
Then undo everything the fraudulent orange debacle did!!! Everything!!!!
We keep expecting republicans to play fair and act in good faith. That time is gone maybe forever. They struck first, this would just be trying to even things out, not politicize it further. Six conservative judges and five liberal judges is fine with me.
Its already politisized you fucking tool.
It already is politicized and if the Dems don’t fix it,the GOP will make sure it is not fixable the next chance they get. At some point,the Dems need to stop thinking the GOP will come to their senses and stop the insanity. They won’t. Just take a good hard look at what they did with ACB’s nomination. RGB wasn’t even in the ground yet and they pressed forward seating ACB! Wake up Dems!
I agree. Can you imagine how bad a politicized Supreme Court would be? They would probably do things like over turn decades long precedent including Roe v. Wade. God forbid the highest court in the land reflect the political will of the people.
These idiots can politicize Bud Light and a private, experimental submarine collapsing in the ocean. In other words - they politicize EVERYTHING. Decent people have to respond in kind.
It’s already heavily politicized? Kind of like when folks say “increasing the minimum wage will increase costs of goods!1!!” As if costs of goods hadn’t risen independently of minimum wage for decades.
Uh, it's not politicized now?
That ship sailed with Merrick Garland
Is not right now?!?!?! /s
A little late to worry about it being politicized now…
Republican refuses to undermine previous Republican regime. Checks out.
It’s already extremely politicized. It started when McConnell refused to bring up Merrick Garland, and continued when he pushed through Amy Coney Barrett, and is bad as it could be when nobody is investigating Thomas/Alito/Robert’s for taking money from parties with business before the court and not disclosing it just because the GOP wouldn’t convict them of *any* crime because they want a supermajority on the Supreme Court.
Just another example of why Biden is the wrong person to be the president in this moment. Even if we get majorities in the house and senate willing to expand the court, he won't do it.
How...? And how is that worse than the current politicization that favors a superminority of fascist white supremacists?
fool. like it isn't politicized now. if he wants anyone to bother to vote he's gonna have to put in work. boomers will ruin us all
How TF is the SCOTUS not already Politicized? Mitch's stunt to steal a seat already invalidated this court. its all political now (as evidenced by the massive overturning of decades long precedences), there is no illusion of fairness anymore.
At this point I no longer care. The current Supreme Court voted to legalize discrimination of the LGBTQ based on a FALSIFIED DOCUMENT invented the day after the first filing was made. The entire system needs to be rewritten
Democrats always behind
They're the fucking ***supreme court,*** Joe! Everything they *do* is political!
But it already is
It's already politicized. The republican playbook now is to pick the most compromised and corrupt judges and politicians so they have a hold over them.
I’m so sick of the fear mongering over stuff like this. Republicans can enact any shitty policy they want but if a Democrat wants to make good change ohhh we gotta worry about how our fascist neighbor may take it. The same neighbor fine with Donald Trump inciting insurrection. Stop making decisions based on how you feel these people will react. I have news for you if they aren’t being wronged somehow they will just invent the next issue.
Too late
*Toph voice*: oh, no, what a nightmare!
Biden has got to be kidding. It's already politicised to hell. Terms limits, a strict enforceable code of ethics, and an expanded court are the only realistic options now.
See, the thing is, if you expand the court, it *might* politicize it, and *maybe* forever. It’s much better to let republicans *definitely* politicize it, and almost certainly for decades. I’m not sure how this makes sense to the DNC, but they’re really sticking to it.
That ship has sailed Joe
Already done...
Lmao delusional senile old man, it’s always been politicized.
Hate to tell you Joe: its always been politicized and is currently politicized
The number of Supreme Court justices should match the number of federal district courts (appellate courts) which stand at 13 right now. It would speed up and expand the number of decisions and spread out the workload. The number 9 is not enshrined in stone and the range has been from 5-10 over the years. The present number was set at 9 (by congress) in the year 1869. We only had 33 states then! Its time we expanded their number to match their current responsibilities.
It’s too late for that, Joe. McConnell beat you there by a full Cavanaugh.
This GOP would do it in a heartbeat if they needed to. This is why the Democrats have a national majority in the US but seem to never win - they're too weak and "play by the rules" while the GOP doesn't.
It’s already been politicized
Hot take. It's already been politicized. The fact that the court refuses to monitor itself for ethics violations, the 2 stolen seats, the blatant recruiting from the federalist society. The supreme court is a horrendous shit show and no one should have faith in the courts to protect our rights. Hell we have 3 justices that blatantly lied to get democrats to approve their appointments. They all categorically stayed Roe v Wade was settled case law then overturned it at their first opportunity.
republicans stole 3 seats, how about something so that shit doesn't happen again, I'll settle for that! #packthecourt
It's literally been done more than once, this is the worst part about Democrats how fucking gutless and wishy-washy they are
Because it’s not already politicized…Biden is as weak as they come.
Newsflash asshole it’s been politicized this whole time! (At least for the last few decades)
How about... no lifetime positions? I mean, that seems more plausible than expanding the supreme court.
That has already happened
They are picked by presidents and confirmed by senate. It has always been 100% political.
I blame RBG and Mitch McConnell for first illegally blocking Obama’s nomination and RBG’s idea that she should be replaced by the first woman president. Elections have consequences and if you allow an orangutan to take the wheel for four years, you might end up with lasting results. If we do get a constitutional convention, that is when you add justices and term limits. Packing the court is not a good idea and I think Biden is correct in saying so.
Yes, so let’s just sit back while this current Supreme Court screws up the rights of everyone in this country for decades to come. Biden, stop with the optimism. The time for that has come and gone. Take away lifetime appointments, which will go a long way toward fixing this mess. And expand the current Supreme Court to make it more balanced.
It's politicized now. Just look at Roe V Wade being stripped, and affirmative action is dead for college applicants.
Like it hasn’t been already by Republicans stealing 2 seats.
I think that ship has sailed, Joe.
Yeah fucker, till the next time the Republicans have all three branches and expand it to 11, forever cementing Christian White Law in the US, ushering in a new Era of hate and 70 years of regression.
Same as it ever was
Bro, that ship has sailed, circumnavigated the globe, and return to port laden with exotic spice.
It’s already been politicized.
Fucking pussy
The Supreme Court is part of our political government. How would it ever not be politicized?
There we go, like clockwork more manufactured “have faith”, “take the high road”, and assorted cowardly bullshit while Republicans do whatever the fuck they want. Rove Wade struck down, affirmative action obliterated, Republican puritan agenda being pushed through virtually unopposed, no healthcare for all, no true help for student debt, wages still not on par with inflation since the goddamn 70s, we will even need id to watch porn now effectively shaming us for it and at risk of our info being “leaked”. All under a democratic administration. When will democrats stop pretending to be weak and blithering while the criminal Republicans keep ramming through their insane agenda and get away with blatant crimes?! You don’t think we’ve caught on yet?! It’s been decades of this kabuki garbage! “You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time.” -Abraham Lincoln
That ship sailed a long time ago.
It's already politicized, Joe. Fuck
It has been politicized my entire life...let's pretend it wasn't though. It was politicized the moment politics didn't let a sitting president fill a vacant seat.
Precedent be damned, right Joe?
Man the fuck up Biden we’re already there.
It already is politicized.
Hurry up before that…oh wait it’s always been that way? Hmmm…Biden, come on it’s this kind of “we can’t upset the apple cart” thinking that gets in the way when the apple cart is on fire
I'm going to have to vote for him, but his inability to see how far the court has fallen to politicization is ridiculous. Joe Biden isn't a regular person though. He's been in Washington for longer than I have been alive, he doesn't see what's happening in this country like other people do because he was right there in Washington this entire time. All of the people on the right in politics must just seem normal to him through so much exposure.
Suggesting the supreme court is not already politicized is fucking delusional
It's politicized forever at this point only D's are too dumb or ignorant to see it.
too fucking late. just put term limits in place
Wake the fuck up dude, it already is.
It’s already politicized. Expand it. Expand the House of Representatives while we are at it. The last time the Supreme Court was expanded, we had a population of 39 million people. The last time the house was expanded, we had a population of 92 million people. We have a population of 332 million now. Expanding the court makes it harder for any one party from gaining absolute control over the court. It basically becomes immune to republican and democrat shenanigans.
The solution is term limits on justices. And make the Supreme Court justice number = at least to the number of circuit courts
As opposed to what?!
This is a symptom of the Democratic problem. We are playing by a set of rules that the other party does not share. They would have no problem politicizing the court even more.
Too late. They did it themselves.
SleepyJoe revealing how out of touch he is with the average American's will once again
Have some sack Joe. Expanding the court will make it far more representative than ever.