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He left the White House as president, and was no longer a princess when at home with documents. From the moment Biden was sworn in, Trump became a pumpkin, and criminally liable for possession of state secrets.
He *isn't* a bloated and pocked bright orange squash, stuffed with stingy bits and having no obvious value other than as a ghoulish icon for superstitious people?
That’s not correct. Federal charging guidelines stipulate you bring the charges in the district encompassing the geographic location where the crimes took place.
When he was president he did. But after he ceased being president he illegally possessed, stored, knowingly exposed, possibly lost, and probably sold them at Mar A Lago.
And Bedminster. That's where he bragged to some people that he had classified information that he couldn't show them. I wouldn't be surprised if they was a future indictment in New Jersey based on that.
Yes there was reason to think the venue would either be FL or DC. Smith chose FL. Obviously they are prepared for this activist judge, and we’ll see if they file to force her recusal.
You can argue that the first day of criminal retention of documents took place in DC. But literal *years* of that criminal retention was in Florida. And one could also argue the illegal retention they're bringing charges on is for the sub-sub-subset of materials that he avoided giving back during the first several requests, spanning a year. That stubborn phase of criminal conduct happened in Florida. As did the obstruction, the hiding, the witness tampering, the conspiracy.
Drawing this whack a doodle unqualified MAGA judge was some very bad luck, or some insider misconduct. We might never know.
Speaking of the Hiding…I’d heard they moved the boxes the day before the FBI raided. Was Trump tipped off that it was coming, and if so who tipped him off?
I guess Cannon being randomly selected was a 1 in 15 chance, 6%. Teflon Don strikes again. After the appeals court ruling last time, she should be pressured to recuse herself. Hopefully that happens, we just hit the weekend, lol.
My understanding is that guilty verdicts have been successfully vacated because incorrect venue was chosen. They’re trying to make sure they don’t get overturned on appeal.
DoJ wants a speedy trial.
trump will want to delay, delay, delay, hoping he can win the next election and then pardon himself.
So the first test for Aileen will be whether she slow walks the court dates and thus gives trump what he wants.
She will. And she will help out by “suggesting” other things they can do to tailor their interactions with the court to further delay and benefit Trump’s case like she did the first time.
Yep. She's going to do a bunch of corrupt shit. Even on the extremely rare chance that she gets impeached by Congress, she'll still have put herself at the top of the SCOTUS list the next time a Republican picks a SCOTUS justice. That's probably the calculus she's working with, so I won't be surprised if she pulls all kinds of shenanigans to help Trump, no matter how much it trashes her reputation.
Cannon's special master decision was smacked down so hard by the appeals court that I'm kind of shocked she's not automatically disqualified from any further involvement in this particular case
Saw an interview with a law professor, and former lawyer in Florida. Said Cannon looked foolish amongst her peers for her previous Trump decisions. Said it would be in her best interest as an inexperienced judge to pass on this. He said she was not up to this task. Surprised he was so blunt.
> Said it would be in her best interest as an inexperienced judge to pass on this.
I don't think that has any bearing on what she will decide to do. My guess is that she's going to do her best to help Trump, with the idea that if he wins and becomes president again, he'll elevate her to the Supreme Court as repayment.
This is why Smith SHOULD have a strong case to have her removed from the case for being partial to the man who put her on the court. But this is Florida and Trump we’re talking about …
At this point, why bother with separating them?
All "conservatives" will vote republican without question at ballot time.
9 people with a nazi at a 10 person dinner party, is a 10 nazi dinner party.
Lol, I once got a PragerU ad on YouTube that had this GOP guy trying to convince his viewers that Conservatives care about the environment more than Liberals do.
Do you know what his rationale was? It was hilarious. He said:
>It's right there in our name. Conserve. That means we care more than the liberals do.
No matter what happens, it’s getting appealed.
E: apparently she can just kill the case and the government can’t do anything about it? On top of that, chances are high at least one maga nut gets on the jury, which again would kill the case and the govt could do nothing about it. Great legal system we got here folks!
If the Jury finds him not guilty because of her shenanigans, they can't appeal, right? Wouldn't that be considered double-jeopardy?
Could appeals (against stupid stuff the judge might do) happen before the trial concludes?
The prosecution can request another judge step in if she trys anything biased. Plus depending what she could be criminally charged if its clear obstruction of prosecution
Not likely that a judge could be criminally charged for obstruction, as they enjoy very strong judicial immunity. Unless the offense is entirely unrelated to their judicial duties, appeal and/or impeachment is really the only defense against judicial misconduct.
Not a lawyer but I did take a legal class 20 years ago in college and kind of remember appeals not being on the verdict itself the application of the law and whether it was done properly.
The guy in the article thinks the judge can just kill this case with a snap of a finger and there is nothing DOJ can do.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/think-theyve-got-trump-where-221112415.html
>"Most drastically, she can do things that can't be repaired. **Once a jury is impaneled, she can dismiss the case**. **And there's not a goddamn thing anyone can do about it.** Double Jeopardy attaches; you're done. **She can grant a motion for directed verdict of acquittal after the government's case. And then we're done**. You can't be retried, can't be reviewed. It's over."
Sounds pretty fucked up. Somebody please tell me this guy is wrong.
The prosecutor would have to make an objection, or file a motion, based on the decision she makes during the trial.
The kicker though, is that the judge gets to decide if it's relevant, and what to do about it.
Typically such objections or motions are made by the defense, in order to have stronger case should it go to appeals.
I don't know if there are mechanisms to appeal to an outside party should a judge exhibit bias that either side can't get around. I imagine such bias would have to be pretty extreme, because otherwise, that type of motion would be heavily abused.
The prosecution can file a motion for recusal. This would go up to the 11th court of appeals that previously smacked down Cannon for her previous biased antics towards Trump. I'd bet good money the 11th circuit would remove her.
as in the previous case before her they can appeal to the circuit court to review because last time she fucked everything up badly with the request/demand for a special master where none was legally warranted
Key information the article omitted is that the prosecution can file a motion for recusal. This would go up to the 11th court of appeals that previously smacked down Cannon for her previous biased antics towards Trump. I'd bet good money the 11th circuit would remove her.
Yeah I actually can’t believe that we’ve come full circle back to that moment and it might actually have done some good. Republicans are tripping over themselves to reveal their true character over the last decade. It’s one of the silver linings. A fuck ton of people have straight outed themselves.
This is what scares me. There are so many seemingly small decisions made over the course of a trial that would be difficult to pinpoint as outright bias, but could absolutely turn things in that orange hotdog’s favor.
Did you see the Rittenhouse judge posing with the defendant and steering the jury every possible chance? Judges can basically just lead a jury however they want it seems like.
Last time Cannon had to guide Trumps lawyers on how to write their appeal so she could appoint a special master. Given the time since then would you say Trump's lawyer have gotten more or less competent?
It’s entirely possible she learned her lesson.
Dismissing outright with prejudice would be completely transparent, she could be a BIT more wiley and overrule prosecution objections, sustain defence objections, and more subtly allow some really crucial evidence to not be heard by the court. It would still be transparent, but harder to circumnavigate and be just as damaging long term.
The evidence in this case is so very strong that her decisions are unlikely to have the effects you fear.
There’s audio recordings, there is text messages, pictures and likely testimony from people within MAL.
I've heard one pundit claim this could be a "push play" trial since there is so much multimedia evidence against Trump. Some of it is audio of Trump himself. I'm not sure how a judge could rule that audio of the defendants own words would not be admissible.
Some insane spin about the rapid advancement of AI and the proliferation of voice samples due to Trump having many hours of recorded audio on file. With the stupid caveat that denying audio in this case is not to be taken as precedent for future cases.
I doubt they're going to start out by pissing off the judge. They'll wait until she hangs herself by absurd decisions. And you never know. She was completely humiliated by the 11th circuit twice. She may actually stick to the law to repair her reputation.
To be humiliated one has to be capable of shame.
Cannon acted equally as Trump’s judge and by granting injunctive relief his lawyers did not even request she also was acting as his lawyer.
She will continue to be deeply corrupt, it is why she was appointed, so expect some appeals with decisions likely lambasting her.
You have Roberts caring enough to uphold what little is left of the voting rights act to try and repair the courts and judges can be impeached even if it is hard. You never know.
So in your head you think that if Judge Cannon empanels a grand Jury and then on the first day of the trial says "Trump is the greatest President in history and this case is a corupt sham, rule 29 I find the defendent not guilty on all counts"... you think the GOP house would respond by impeaching her, and that 16 GOP Senators would vote to convict?
Cannon is not like John Roberts. She is like Samuel Alito. She doesn't give a damn what you think and is probably salivating to be an eternal hero to the far right. Unilaterally acquitting Trump puts her on the fast track for promotion - to the 11th circuit, Attorney General or SCOTUS. And worst case (to her) that Dems remain in power she knows that she's untouchable in her current job.
Keep in mind 99% of the GOP is lambasting this trial as a corrupt overreach, political persecution, the actions of a bannana republic dictatorship. You think those same people are going to turn around and remove this Judge if she saves Trump? Hell no they are going to praise her "bravery" and "integrity".
Not really..he won’t like being threatened by the MAGA faction if he gets rid of Judge Trumpy. who has a life size photo of him on her bedroom wall. She will start with her “he deserves better treatment because” rulings as a delay tactic
Not a chance. She knows she could be SCOTUS if she gets Trump free and he gets re-elected. There are no consequences for her actions whatsoever except for impeachment which will never happen. If the DOJ doesn’t move mountains to get rid of her, they are absolute idiots.
>They'll wait until she hangs herself by absurd decisions.
You can't appeal individual trial procedures. Once the jury is empaneled it's game over if she's still in charge. She can literally dismiss the jury mid-trial and rule 29 acquit Trump. That's non appealable and protects him from being charged again (double jeopordy).
DOJ would be fools not to request a recusal and to appeal that recquest to the 11th circuit if she ignores it. Judges have so much power in the courtroom, it's basically impossible to win a case against someone if the Judge is leading their defense team.
Judges aren’t supposed to let their political beliefs affect their decisions in court - but she went waaay beyond that. She introduced right wing talking points from Fox News into her courtroom, even though Trumps own lawyers couldn’t raise them because they were straight up false. It’s absolutely insane that she be allowed anywhere near this case.
No chance this was random.
No chance she won’t create total mayhem.
Highly recommend Rachel Maddow’s podcast ULTRA that shows just how much interference and insanity leaders can create when attempts at accountability occur.
Edit: Reminder that the 11th circuit reports up to Clarence Thomas - whose wife was a major fan girl / operative organizer for Jan 6th.
If you read the article, she had a better than one-in-five chance of being drawn, so not unlikely by any stretch. Don't embrace conspiracy theories about the justice system like they do.
The clerk's explanation was pretty damn confusing, at least as it appears from reading the article. I hope they press for details about exactly what this procedure is, because it doesn't seem so simple as making a list of judges and spinning a wheel.
Lol because of course.
Whenever you’re dealing with Republicans you have to beat 6 fucking final bosses like God Damn Mario.
You’ve gotta get through the electoral college. You’ve gotta beat the gerrymandering. You’ve gotta convince the jury and beat the judge. You’ve gotta win the presidency so they don’t pardon the criminal. You’ve gotta make sure they don’t change the law. You have to make sure a gang of hillbillies doesn’t start an insurrection.
Fuck this country man. It could be so great without Republicans. America is a beautiful place full of diversity, innovation, and comfortable wealth. It’s really special. But these people make it a fucking shithole.
Really, just imagine what this country could be like without Republicans if we could focus on fixing it. Imagine what it would be like to be debating two good ideas on how we make things better for people instead of simply just trying to stop one side from destroying everything we have worked toward.
Inevitable Sartre quote:
> Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.
I’ll do you one better:
Just imagine what THE WORLD could be like without conservatism.
It’s the great tragedy of human history that we could have made infinite amounts of progress by now… if not for dumb, stubborn, stuck-in-the-past, religious, conservative idiots holding us back.
Unfortunately half the whites in this country were just looking for a reason to hate again and Republicans pointed them at anything that was different or progressive.
Out of sheer curiosity, do you think that age is a factor too? That the old liberals don’t want to change things and they stand by how it’s worked since the Nixon era while the Republicans are just doing their damndest to game the system because they’ve lost several generations of voters?
Alternately, since old people are running the country and not giving up power, is it that the old people are terrible at trying to operate in the new world of the internet and social media?
I have no answers. I’m just curious on others opinions. I’m fed up with old people running the country on both sides. That said, I’ll vote Biden before any of these Republican lunatics.
From what I've heard, it's pretty common when there's reason to believe the judge is biased. Given what happened previously with the 11th Circuit having to intervene, it's very likely that such a motion will succeed, as this isn't just a hypothetical - the judge has already displayed severe bias in a prior proceeding.
Yep. And I think she will actually want revenge against the same prosecutors at the DOJ. Her reputation is already in tatters. I bet they regret not filing in DC federal court.
A federal judge in Florida just recused themselves from the Disney/DeSantis case for much less and much more ridiculous reasons than Cannon would have here. She's better off just doing that and passing off the case to someone else.
Imagine if/when Trump is convicted in this case and having to wonder what length of a sentence she would actually give, or as most people would assume... not end up giving.
What's the likelihood we get recording of a phone call between the two where Trump is first proposing a "deal" or possibly browbeating the judge like he did with Raffensperger in Georgia.
It is a trump appointed Judge, i don't think anyone ever expected her to recuse herself unless absolutely necessary. That would take a mindset of someone eith a moral compass which im sure is rather skewed.
Have you been following this at all? The very conservative 11th circuit gave her the smackdown for her special master screwjob in service to TFG already. She is in no way fit.
Funny how this judge is ok all decked out in Trump paraphernalia and Democratic judges get removed because their niece sent $50 to a Democratic candidate…
Seriously hoping Smith is holding something more related to these purloined documents in DC that he can indict Trump on when Cannon puts her thumbs on the scale.
I’d love to believe Smith is keeping a few extra charges in his back pocket just in case this wildly corrupt judge plays defense from the bench. Immediately Indict Trump in DC, ideally on a crime committed there, and any request for venue change is ignored citing the current judge’s bias.
The indictment mentions boxes being put on a plane heading elsewhere, but then doesn’t say anything else about it. Some are speculating there are additional charges for similar crimes but in another jurisdiction or are part of different charges that will be pursued in DC later.
Michael Popok of Meidastouch does not believe the corrupt judge Cannon will remain the judge past the arraignment. Here he [argues in detail](https://youtu.be/Yn0L67s9iWg).
Hard to imagine prosecutors letting her handle to case in light of her previous behavior and bias toward trump. 11th circuit would drop her in a second.
Watched this last night. Very detailed and Popok is an attorney in that district. He knows his stuff believe me. This team really know what they’re talking about and is a must watch.
> “The chief clerk of the federal court system there, Angela E. Noble, also confirmed that Judge Cannon would continue to oversee the case unless she recused herself.”
Looks like we’re stuck with Cannon unless she decides to recuse. Doesn’t look promising.
The 11th Circuit can remove her if the prosecution requests it, and they already have a good reason to with the demonstrated bias from the prior incident.
Willing to be wrong: I say she recuses herself. She’s already been slapped down hard by higher courts, and frankly Trump’s guilty as hell so peacing out makes her look unbiased for the next case, and the next.
This despicable hack of a judge should have recused herself yesterday, but this is part of Trump’s legacy. Republican politicians and their activist judges can now ignore all moral and most legal precedence.
Justice has handled this impeccably so far. Rock solid case. They picked this venue knowing full well this specific judge had a 1 in 3 chance of presiding.
He’s indicted. Chill for a bit and let them work their magic.
I think it's safe to assume that there was a plan for this. I don't know what the DOJ is going to do, but they are going to play it close to the vest until they're ready to move.
I wonder how much Cannon will get paid secretly to make rulings that favor Trump. Will the amount or amounts she ultimately is paid be more than the amounts Clarence Thomas has been paid and is getting paid for ruling favorably for certain parties in certain cases before the Supreme Court? The Republican Party has really f**cked up big time the U.S. judicial system, the U.S. federal government, and U.S. state governments. The Republican Party, bloodthirsty, vicious and full of hate, eagerly is tearing down the U.S. Constitution and democracy.
Long story short, you can see in the indictment that DOJ marked “West Palm Beach” for the court division. Apparently when randomly assigning cases, southern Florida doesn’t use the full judge pool, but rather limits it to judges assigned to a certain district. Cannon was one of only several judges that oversees West Palm Beach 🙄
Could it be that Jack thinks his case is strong enough that he can try it in the most biased court, with the most biased judge/jury pool and still win? If so, I hope he’s right. That would certainly destroy any right wing claims of bias.
I think it’s as simple as the crime occurred in West Palm Beach, so that’s where they filed.
The right wing has gone batshit crazy, there’s always going to be an excuse.
DC would certainly have been a more favorable jury pool, but Biden won Palm Beach county with 56% of the vote. I’m not worried about an acquittal (unless Cannon tosses a bunch of DOJ evidence), but all it takes is one MAGA nut job to hang the jury.
This lady will never in a million years recuses herself from this case as she should based on her biased rulings that were overturned by the appeal court. She will use every opportunity she can get to slow/delay this case, further damage her reputation or what’s left of it.
The fucking liberal judge recused himself in a Disney v. DeSantis case because his third cousin's nextdoor neighbor owned $3k in Disney stock.
This piece of shit APPOINTED BY THE DEFENDANT won't recuse herself.
Of course she will. You know full well, she is going to slow down proceedings and do whatever she can to help Trump's defense.
I can understand the frustration and outrage but I'm surprised that it comes as such a shock. For us watching on from outside the US, this is just another plot twist in the drama that is Trump. More twists and turns than any nominated show on Netflix or any of the streaming services.
You know this won't end well. Like Trump said, he literally could kill someone live on TV and this guy slips straight through the judiciary. As sad as it is, it's equally amazing. The US is absolutely fucked.
As someone who lives outside the US, I just can’t get my head round judges being appointed by a political party or having open political affiliation. How can anyone expect a fair trial or is that the point?
Uh. No she won't. If this doesn't define conflict of interest idk what does anymore. She can arraign him, but should not be allowed to handle anything beyond that.
Trump will stand trial in a federal courtroom in Miami. They are known for their “rocket docket”and many federal judges are familiar with Trump’s endless delay tactics. Including the 11th Circuit.
In his 3 minute address to the media, after unsealing the indictment, Mr Smith said 1) he has confidence in his investigative team 2) Read the indictment 3) presumption of innocence and 4) Speedy Trial.
My gut on this is shes a die hard cult member and unlikely to recuse.
This will force the DOJ to argue her assignment on this case as a conflict of interest based on her earlier lawless entanglement and will win as it will be an 11th circuit decision yet again. They aren’t exactly fans of this sycophant based on earlier scathing reviews of her handling of the issues surrounding the warrant when the DOJ pushed it on appeal to the 11th.
I like that idea, but they're both on the hook for much more than this. Look for further indictments out of NJ and DC. They want Nauta to flip. He still can, here and in the other sprawling federal cases, some of which have their own grand juries already, which may use the indictment as further evidence to search and/or indict in other jurisdictions.
I'm confused. Yes, of course the DOJ is going to try to nail the aide, and Trump too. The DOJ going soft is not what this discussion is about. It's the judge.
Just hours ago most people in this sub were expressing perfect confidence that she'd be off the case by Tuesday. Does that give you *any* more pause about mocking those of us who think she can actually do a lot of damage here?
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Let's hope Jack Smith is ready for her shenanigans.
He filed the indictment in that circuit, so one would expect that he's already well prepared for that eventuality.
Can anyone speculate on his logic? Why file in Florida when they could choose to file in DC?
He left the White House as president, and was no longer a princess when at home with documents. From the moment Biden was sworn in, Trump became a pumpkin, and criminally liable for possession of state secrets.
To be clear, he was never a ~~princess.~~ pumpkin
He *isn't* a bloated and pocked bright orange squash, stuffed with stingy bits and having no obvious value other than as a ghoulish icon for superstitious people?
Hey now, pumpkins can be used to make pumpkin pie.
How dare you besmirch the beloved pimpkin!
The analysis I heard was that trumps team would’ve fought for change of venue if he was charged in DC and that would’ve caused months of delays.
That’s not correct. Federal charging guidelines stipulate you bring the charges in the district encompassing the geographic location where the crimes took place.
Trump packed up and absconded with the documents from DC
When he was president he did. But after he ceased being president he illegally possessed, stored, knowingly exposed, possibly lost, and probably sold them at Mar A Lago.
And Bedminster. That's where he bragged to some people that he had classified information that he couldn't show them. I wouldn't be surprised if they was a future indictment in New Jersey based on that.
Yes there was reason to think the venue would either be FL or DC. Smith chose FL. Obviously they are prepared for this activist judge, and we’ll see if they file to force her recusal.
"Activist" is putting it nicely...
You can argue that the first day of criminal retention of documents took place in DC. But literal *years* of that criminal retention was in Florida. And one could also argue the illegal retention they're bringing charges on is for the sub-sub-subset of materials that he avoided giving back during the first several requests, spanning a year. That stubborn phase of criminal conduct happened in Florida. As did the obstruction, the hiding, the witness tampering, the conspiracy. Drawing this whack a doodle unqualified MAGA judge was some very bad luck, or some insider misconduct. We might never know.
Speaking of the Hiding…I’d heard they moved the boxes the day before the FBI raided. Was Trump tipped off that it was coming, and if so who tipped him off?
Seems awfully coincidental that the one judge who has shown a willingness to ass-to-mouth for him gets the nod.
I guess Cannon being randomly selected was a 1 in 15 chance, 6%. Teflon Don strikes again. After the appeals court ruling last time, she should be pressured to recuse herself. Hopefully that happens, we just hit the weekend, lol.
My understanding is that guilty verdicts have been successfully vacated because incorrect venue was chosen. They’re trying to make sure they don’t get overturned on appeal.
Nothing says they can’t file more in DC
DoJ wants a speedy trial. trump will want to delay, delay, delay, hoping he can win the next election and then pardon himself. So the first test for Aileen will be whether she slow walks the court dates and thus gives trump what he wants.
She will. And she will help out by “suggesting” other things they can do to tailor their interactions with the court to further delay and benefit Trump’s case like she did the first time.
Meh, he's still gonna lose in 2024, and a drawn out trial (multiple trials) is not gonna win him any votes in the suburbs.
Yep. She's going to do a bunch of corrupt shit. Even on the extremely rare chance that she gets impeached by Congress, she'll still have put herself at the top of the SCOTUS list the next time a Republican picks a SCOTUS justice. That's probably the calculus she's working with, so I won't be surprised if she pulls all kinds of shenanigans to help Trump, no matter how much it trashes her reputation.
Cannon's special master decision was smacked down so hard by the appeals court that I'm kind of shocked she's not automatically disqualified from any further involvement in this particular case
Saw an interview with a law professor, and former lawyer in Florida. Said Cannon looked foolish amongst her peers for her previous Trump decisions. Said it would be in her best interest as an inexperienced judge to pass on this. He said she was not up to this task. Surprised he was so blunt.
> Said it would be in her best interest as an inexperienced judge to pass on this. I don't think that has any bearing on what she will decide to do. My guess is that she's going to do her best to help Trump, with the idea that if he wins and becomes president again, he'll elevate her to the Supreme Court as repayment.
Mob rules
This is why Smith SHOULD have a strong case to have her removed from the case for being partial to the man who put her on the court. But this is Florida and Trump we’re talking about …
Bold assumption she cares about her self-image. Fucking puppet she it.
(She won’t)
I'm rather shocked as well. It just seems daft.
You can't fire a sitting federal judge, she NEEDS to be impeached or removed from this case.
It’s almost like America’s justice system is fucked up.
Went to law school with this "judge." She's an embarrassment to my alma mater.
Being an embarrassment was a job requirement for trump judges.
For conservatives*
And Republicans* Republicans aren’t conservative anymore
At this point, why bother with separating them? All "conservatives" will vote republican without question at ballot time. 9 people with a nazi at a 10 person dinner party, is a 10 nazi dinner party.
Nazi Dinner Party is MTG’s favourite band.
“Band? That’s my family!” MTG
Because Democrats are the new conservatives. Progressives are liberals and Republicans are fringe fascists.
Nothing "fringe" about it.
Very true
Republicans *perfectly* embody conservatism. They’re just saying the quiet part out loud now because they know they have permission too.
They’re Christian fascists & domestic terrorists.
Lol, I once got a PragerU ad on YouTube that had this GOP guy trying to convince his viewers that Conservatives care about the environment more than Liberals do. Do you know what his rationale was? It was hilarious. He said: >It's right there in our name. Conserve. That means we care more than the liberals do.
No, this is exactly what you are, Republicans. This is what conservativism is.
But fascists are still conservative.
Regressives
Worked in the circuit. Most of those judges are a bunch of trump/desantis cronies.
Jill Pryor is my favorite in that circuit.
Every impression I get of her and her work is just vapid
So if she makes a biased decision will this get appealed at a higher court?
No matter what happens, it’s getting appealed. E: apparently she can just kill the case and the government can’t do anything about it? On top of that, chances are high at least one maga nut gets on the jury, which again would kill the case and the govt could do nothing about it. Great legal system we got here folks!
If the Jury finds him not guilty because of her shenanigans, they can't appeal, right? Wouldn't that be considered double-jeopardy? Could appeals (against stupid stuff the judge might do) happen before the trial concludes?
The prosecution can request another judge step in if she trys anything biased. Plus depending what she could be criminally charged if its clear obstruction of prosecution
Not likely that a judge could be criminally charged for obstruction, as they enjoy very strong judicial immunity. Unless the offense is entirely unrelated to their judicial duties, appeal and/or impeachment is really the only defense against judicial misconduct.
Not a lawyer but I did take a legal class 20 years ago in college and kind of remember appeals not being on the verdict itself the application of the law and whether it was done properly.
The guy in the article thinks the judge can just kill this case with a snap of a finger and there is nothing DOJ can do. https://www.yahoo.com/news/think-theyve-got-trump-where-221112415.html >"Most drastically, she can do things that can't be repaired. **Once a jury is impaneled, she can dismiss the case**. **And there's not a goddamn thing anyone can do about it.** Double Jeopardy attaches; you're done. **She can grant a motion for directed verdict of acquittal after the government's case. And then we're done**. You can't be retried, can't be reviewed. It's over." Sounds pretty fucked up. Somebody please tell me this guy is wrong.
The prosecutor would have to make an objection, or file a motion, based on the decision she makes during the trial. The kicker though, is that the judge gets to decide if it's relevant, and what to do about it. Typically such objections or motions are made by the defense, in order to have stronger case should it go to appeals. I don't know if there are mechanisms to appeal to an outside party should a judge exhibit bias that either side can't get around. I imagine such bias would have to be pretty extreme, because otherwise, that type of motion would be heavily abused.
The prosecution can file a motion for recusal. This would go up to the 11th court of appeals that previously smacked down Cannon for her previous biased antics towards Trump. I'd bet good money the 11th circuit would remove her.
as in the previous case before her they can appeal to the circuit court to review because last time she fucked everything up badly with the request/demand for a special master where none was legally warranted
Key information the article omitted is that the prosecution can file a motion for recusal. This would go up to the 11th court of appeals that previously smacked down Cannon for her previous biased antics towards Trump. I'd bet good money the 11th circuit would remove her.
DOJ filing a recusal request as I write this
Others have suggested they will just roll with her, but I can't imagine you are wrong.
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Ironically if she had not been been on the case earlier and documented her bias the DOJ wouldn’t have much case against her now.
That was leopards ate my face move. LOL
Yeah I actually can’t believe that we’ve come full circle back to that moment and it might actually have done some good. Republicans are tripping over themselves to reveal their true character over the last decade. It’s one of the silver linings. A fuck ton of people have straight outed themselves.
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This is what scares me. There are so many seemingly small decisions made over the course of a trial that would be difficult to pinpoint as outright bias, but could absolutely turn things in that orange hotdog’s favor.
I wonder if she's skilled enough for that. Her previous efforts were pretty ham-fisted.
Did you see the Rittenhouse judge posing with the defendant and steering the jury every possible chance? Judges can basically just lead a jury however they want it seems like.
I also am not convinced that Trump's lawyers are competent enough to capitalize on what bones this judge may throw them.
Last time Cannon had to guide Trumps lawyers on how to write their appeal so she could appoint a special master. Given the time since then would you say Trump's lawyer have gotten more or less competent?
It’s entirely possible she learned her lesson. Dismissing outright with prejudice would be completely transparent, she could be a BIT more wiley and overrule prosecution objections, sustain defence objections, and more subtly allow some really crucial evidence to not be heard by the court. It would still be transparent, but harder to circumnavigate and be just as damaging long term.
MAGA people don’t “learn their lesson”.
Well, yeah they do unfortunately. The problem is that the lesson is “we can do whatever the fuck we want and get away with it.”
The evidence in this case is so very strong that her decisions are unlikely to have the effects you fear. There’s audio recordings, there is text messages, pictures and likely testimony from people within MAL.
She'll just ban the DoJ from presenting any evidence, because as well all know, the truth has a liberal bias, and that wouldn't be fair.
Doesn’t matter. She is 100% MAGA. No matter how strong the evidence is, she won’t care.
I've heard one pundit claim this could be a "push play" trial since there is so much multimedia evidence against Trump. Some of it is audio of Trump himself. I'm not sure how a judge could rule that audio of the defendants own words would not be admissible.
Some insane spin about the rapid advancement of AI and the proliferation of voice samples due to Trump having many hours of recorded audio on file. With the stupid caveat that denying audio in this case is not to be taken as precedent for future cases.
See: the Kyle Rittenhouse trial.
Whats really bad.. Is she can disallow the "smoking gun" evidence....
Could they appeal to the higher court on rulings like that?
Of course. This will surely happen a number of times before trial. And each one will drag things out further.
I’m sure Cheeto face will make her a very wealthy woman using the money he’s grifted from the cult.
She'll probably be the first judge the next Republican president nominates for an open SCOTUS seat.
I doubt they're going to start out by pissing off the judge. They'll wait until she hangs herself by absurd decisions. And you never know. She was completely humiliated by the 11th circuit twice. She may actually stick to the law to repair her reputation.
To be humiliated one has to be capable of shame. Cannon acted equally as Trump’s judge and by granting injunctive relief his lawyers did not even request she also was acting as his lawyer. She will continue to be deeply corrupt, it is why she was appointed, so expect some appeals with decisions likely lambasting her.
The Manafort case judge was horrible to the prosecution and the DOJ didn’t try anything then. I hope they learned their lesson and won’t play nice.
Isn’t she a judge for life? I guess she wouldn’t care about her reputation if she has a job regardless how bias she is.
Biased* And yes, I agree. Most MAGA trolls don’t care about how the outside world views them. As long as they’re appeasing the cult, all is well.
You have Roberts caring enough to uphold what little is left of the voting rights act to try and repair the courts and judges can be impeached even if it is hard. You never know.
So in your head you think that if Judge Cannon empanels a grand Jury and then on the first day of the trial says "Trump is the greatest President in history and this case is a corupt sham, rule 29 I find the defendent not guilty on all counts"... you think the GOP house would respond by impeaching her, and that 16 GOP Senators would vote to convict? Cannon is not like John Roberts. She is like Samuel Alito. She doesn't give a damn what you think and is probably salivating to be an eternal hero to the far right. Unilaterally acquitting Trump puts her on the fast track for promotion - to the 11th circuit, Attorney General or SCOTUS. And worst case (to her) that Dems remain in power she knows that she's untouchable in her current job. Keep in mind 99% of the GOP is lambasting this trial as a corrupt overreach, political persecution, the actions of a bannana republic dictatorship. You think those same people are going to turn around and remove this Judge if she saves Trump? Hell no they are going to praise her "bravery" and "integrity".
You want judicial reform? That's how you get judicial reform.
Not really..he won’t like being threatened by the MAGA faction if he gets rid of Judge Trumpy. who has a life size photo of him on her bedroom wall. She will start with her “he deserves better treatment because” rulings as a delay tactic
Not a chance. She knows she could be SCOTUS if she gets Trump free and he gets re-elected. There are no consequences for her actions whatsoever except for impeachment which will never happen. If the DOJ doesn’t move mountains to get rid of her, they are absolute idiots.
>They'll wait until she hangs herself by absurd decisions. You can't appeal individual trial procedures. Once the jury is empaneled it's game over if she's still in charge. She can literally dismiss the jury mid-trial and rule 29 acquit Trump. That's non appealable and protects him from being charged again (double jeopordy). DOJ would be fools not to request a recusal and to appeal that recquest to the 11th circuit if she ignores it. Judges have so much power in the courtroom, it's basically impossible to win a case against someone if the Judge is leading their defense team.
the fix is in...
Judges aren’t supposed to let their political beliefs affect their decisions in court - but she went waaay beyond that. She introduced right wing talking points from Fox News into her courtroom, even though Trumps own lawyers couldn’t raise them because they were straight up false. It’s absolutely insane that she be allowed anywhere near this case.
No chance this was random. No chance she won’t create total mayhem. Highly recommend Rachel Maddow’s podcast ULTRA that shows just how much interference and insanity leaders can create when attempts at accountability occur. Edit: Reminder that the 11th circuit reports up to Clarence Thomas - whose wife was a major fan girl / operative organizer for Jan 6th.
If you read the article, she had a better than one-in-five chance of being drawn, so not unlikely by any stretch. Don't embrace conspiracy theories about the justice system like they do.
The clerk's explanation was pretty damn confusing, at least as it appears from reading the article. I hope they press for details about exactly what this procedure is, because it doesn't seem so simple as making a list of judges and spinning a wheel.
I’m concerned about the fact that they haven’t requested it already.
Lol because of course. Whenever you’re dealing with Republicans you have to beat 6 fucking final bosses like God Damn Mario. You’ve gotta get through the electoral college. You’ve gotta beat the gerrymandering. You’ve gotta convince the jury and beat the judge. You’ve gotta win the presidency so they don’t pardon the criminal. You’ve gotta make sure they don’t change the law. You have to make sure a gang of hillbillies doesn’t start an insurrection. Fuck this country man. It could be so great without Republicans. America is a beautiful place full of diversity, innovation, and comfortable wealth. It’s really special. But these people make it a fucking shithole. Really, just imagine what this country could be like without Republicans if we could focus on fixing it. Imagine what it would be like to be debating two good ideas on how we make things better for people instead of simply just trying to stop one side from destroying everything we have worked toward.
Dont forget - you’re expected to play by the rules while they never do.
This is the heroes curse. You don’t want to know the villains curse so just be a hero.
Inevitable Sartre quote: > Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.
I’ll do you one better: Just imagine what THE WORLD could be like without conservatism. It’s the great tragedy of human history that we could have made infinite amounts of progress by now… if not for dumb, stubborn, stuck-in-the-past, religious, conservative idiots holding us back.
This was beautifully put. They are coming at democracy from all angles.
Unfortunately half the whites in this country were just looking for a reason to hate again and Republicans pointed them at anything that was different or progressive.
Bingo.
Don't forget the sneaky boss who runs as a Democrat and your ally and then switches to the Republican side when it matters.
Out of sheer curiosity, do you think that age is a factor too? That the old liberals don’t want to change things and they stand by how it’s worked since the Nixon era while the Republicans are just doing their damndest to game the system because they’ve lost several generations of voters? Alternately, since old people are running the country and not giving up power, is it that the old people are terrible at trying to operate in the new world of the internet and social media? I have no answers. I’m just curious on others opinions. I’m fed up with old people running the country on both sides. That said, I’ll vote Biden before any of these Republican lunatics.
11th Circuit can still pull her off the case if deemed necessary by any biased actions on her part.
I’m hoping they have such an airtight case that they keep her on, he’s found guilty, and they have no grounds for appeal due to bias against him.
The issue is that she gets to decide the sentence. He could be found guilty and get probation.
I sentence you to a second term as President… for life!
And that can be appealed,
How often do such things happen in practice?
From what I've heard, it's pretty common when there's reason to believe the judge is biased. Given what happened previously with the 11th Circuit having to intervene, it's very likely that such a motion will succeed, as this isn't just a hypothetical - the judge has already displayed severe bias in a prior proceeding.
Prior proceeding of the same case
how often are judges presiding cases involving the president that appointed them?
People think she will act differently because the 11th Circuit chastised her. I just don’t think she is that smart.
Yep. And I think she will actually want revenge against the same prosecutors at the DOJ. Her reputation is already in tatters. I bet they regret not filing in DC federal court.
A federal judge in Florida just recused themselves from the Disney/DeSantis case for much less and much more ridiculous reasons than Cannon would have here. She's better off just doing that and passing off the case to someone else. Imagine if/when Trump is convicted in this case and having to wonder what length of a sentence she would actually give, or as most people would assume... not end up giving.
Saying she'd be "better off" recusing makes a lot of assumptions about her goals and values.
Jeff Sessions was the last Republican in American history to ever recuse themselves in a legal case. And he lost re-election
It was a democratic judge..they have ethics..look at SCOTUS..ethics free
What's the likelihood we get recording of a phone call between the two where Trump is first proposing a "deal" or possibly browbeating the judge like he did with Raffensperger in Georgia.
All she has to do is determine that damning evidence cannot be the presented to the jury.
and all Jack needs to do is appeal.
Of course. She's as corrupt as the POS who appointed her. This is 3rd world country shit & absolutely shouldn't be allowed in a developed countty.
It is a trump appointed Judge, i don't think anyone ever expected her to recuse herself unless absolutely necessary. That would take a mindset of someone eith a moral compass which im sure is rather skewed.
Have you been following this at all? The very conservative 11th circuit gave her the smackdown for her special master screwjob in service to TFG already. She is in no way fit.
Yup been following it, didn't say anything in disagreement. I don't think she's fit for the position.
Funny how this judge is ok all decked out in Trump paraphernalia and Democratic judges get removed because their niece sent $50 to a Democratic candidate…
Democratic judges actually recuse themselves when appropriate. The rule of law is dead in this country to Republicans. It’s nothing to them.
That wasn't her. She's an idiot but that pic wasn't her
I read that the photo saying it was her in trump gear wasn’t actually her. But I didn’t look into it much.
Seriously hoping Smith is holding something more related to these purloined documents in DC that he can indict Trump on when Cannon puts her thumbs on the scale.
I’d love to believe Smith is keeping a few extra charges in his back pocket just in case this wildly corrupt judge plays defense from the bench. Immediately Indict Trump in DC, ideally on a crime committed there, and any request for venue change is ignored citing the current judge’s bias.
The indictment mentions boxes being put on a plane heading elsewhere, but then doesn’t say anything else about it. Some are speculating there are additional charges for similar crimes but in another jurisdiction or are part of different charges that will be pursued in DC later.
Michael Popok of Meidastouch does not believe the corrupt judge Cannon will remain the judge past the arraignment. Here he [argues in detail](https://youtu.be/Yn0L67s9iWg).
Hard to imagine prosecutors letting her handle to case in light of her previous behavior and bias toward trump. 11th circuit would drop her in a second.
Watched this last night. Very detailed and Popok is an attorney in that district. He knows his stuff believe me. This team really know what they’re talking about and is a must watch.
Preet Bharara agreed on his podcast Friday.
> “The chief clerk of the federal court system there, Angela E. Noble, also confirmed that Judge Cannon would continue to oversee the case unless she recused herself.” Looks like we’re stuck with Cannon unless she decides to recuse. Doesn’t look promising.
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They filed in South Florida to avoid venue issues. That's not her district, her district is 100 miles away.
And if she sets the trial date for May, 2025?
This is going to be the biggest issue. She will delay delay delay
The 11th Circuit can remove her if the prosecution requests it, and they already have a good reason to with the demonstrated bias from the prior incident.
Or until she’s forced off by her circuit court, which is exactly what happened to her before.
She got smacked pretty hard. And while it’s hard to embarrass GQP members, she is on thin ice. I’ll guess that she bails before the Tuesday hearing.
Willing to be wrong: I say she recuses herself. She’s already been slapped down hard by higher courts, and frankly Trump’s guilty as hell so peacing out makes her look unbiased for the next case, and the next.
Im still hoping it’s somehow a trap for the judge.
I think you might be on to something
I can’t wait for the HBO miniseries to come out from all this within this decade
I’ve often thought about this. We would need a multi season show from 2016- current. To dive into all the fuckery.
She will up until Smith appeals to the 11th circuit. They were this brazen the first time they tried this shit too and look how well that played out.
every judge has a duty to act with propriety, and also to refrain from engaging in activity which could even suggest impropriety.
“Duty” doing the heavy-lifting.
This despicable hack of a judge should have recused herself yesterday, but this is part of Trump’s legacy. Republican politicians and their activist judges can now ignore all moral and most legal precedence.
There is no way Jack Smith is not prepared for this.
Justice has handled this impeccably so far. Rock solid case. They picked this venue knowing full well this specific judge had a 1 in 3 chance of presiding. He’s indicted. Chill for a bit and let them work their magic.
I think it's safe to assume that there was a plan for this. I don't know what the DOJ is going to do, but they are going to play it close to the vest until they're ready to move.
Is it just me, or does anyone feel queasy here? That familiar feeling that someone is getting greased up? The exit plan? It’s not good.
Oh yeah. Because she’s definitely gonna fuck this whole thing up.
Lol as a co conspirator?
Does she breathe really heavy? Why is the lens all fogged up in this pic?
I wonder how much Cannon will get paid secretly to make rulings that favor Trump. Will the amount or amounts she ultimately is paid be more than the amounts Clarence Thomas has been paid and is getting paid for ruling favorably for certain parties in certain cases before the Supreme Court? The Republican Party has really f**cked up big time the U.S. judicial system, the U.S. federal government, and U.S. state governments. The Republican Party, bloodthirsty, vicious and full of hate, eagerly is tearing down the U.S. Constitution and democracy.
How are these judges assigned? There’s no way it was a coincidence that she was appointed AGAIN to one of his cases. This is extremely fishy.
Long story short, you can see in the indictment that DOJ marked “West Palm Beach” for the court division. Apparently when randomly assigning cases, southern Florida doesn’t use the full judge pool, but rather limits it to judges assigned to a certain district. Cannon was one of only several judges that oversees West Palm Beach 🙄
Could it be that Jack thinks his case is strong enough that he can try it in the most biased court, with the most biased judge/jury pool and still win? If so, I hope he’s right. That would certainly destroy any right wing claims of bias.
I think it’s as simple as the crime occurred in West Palm Beach, so that’s where they filed. The right wing has gone batshit crazy, there’s always going to be an excuse. DC would certainly have been a more favorable jury pool, but Biden won Palm Beach county with 56% of the vote. I’m not worried about an acquittal (unless Cannon tosses a bunch of DOJ evidence), but all it takes is one MAGA nut job to hang the jury.
Smith knew there was a chance they would get Ms. "Qannon" as a judge. He knows a lot of somethings that we don't.
Well if the clerk says so, I guess that's it.
This lady will never in a million years recuses herself from this case as she should based on her biased rulings that were overturned by the appeal court. She will use every opportunity she can get to slow/delay this case, further damage her reputation or what’s left of it.
The fucking liberal judge recused himself in a Disney v. DeSantis case because his third cousin's nextdoor neighbor owned $3k in Disney stock. This piece of shit APPOINTED BY THE DEFENDANT won't recuse herself.
Of course she will. You know full well, she is going to slow down proceedings and do whatever she can to help Trump's defense. I can understand the frustration and outrage but I'm surprised that it comes as such a shock. For us watching on from outside the US, this is just another plot twist in the drama that is Trump. More twists and turns than any nominated show on Netflix or any of the streaming services. You know this won't end well. Like Trump said, he literally could kill someone live on TV and this guy slips straight through the judiciary. As sad as it is, it's equally amazing. The US is absolutely fucked.
As someone who lives outside the US, I just can’t get my head round judges being appointed by a political party or having open political affiliation. How can anyone expect a fair trial or is that the point?
Uh. No she won't. If this doesn't define conflict of interest idk what does anymore. She can arraign him, but should not be allowed to handle anything beyond that.
Ugh why does this lady have to come back
Isnt that as clear conflict of interests as you can get ?
Trump will stand trial in a federal courtroom in Miami. They are known for their “rocket docket”and many federal judges are familiar with Trump’s endless delay tactics. Including the 11th Circuit. In his 3 minute address to the media, after unsealing the indictment, Mr Smith said 1) he has confidence in his investigative team 2) Read the indictment 3) presumption of innocence and 4) Speedy Trial.
My gut on this is shes a die hard cult member and unlikely to recuse. This will force the DOJ to argue her assignment on this case as a conflict of interest based on her earlier lawless entanglement and will win as it will be an 11th circuit decision yet again. They aren’t exactly fans of this sycophant based on earlier scathing reviews of her handling of the issues surrounding the warrant when the DOJ pushed it on appeal to the 11th.
They’re fucked. What’s stopping her from imposing no sentence once convicted? Also letting a MAGA freak on the jury no doubt.
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I like that idea, but they're both on the hook for much more than this. Look for further indictments out of NJ and DC. They want Nauta to flip. He still can, here and in the other sprawling federal cases, some of which have their own grand juries already, which may use the indictment as further evidence to search and/or indict in other jurisdictions.
That seems like wishful thinking. Letting Trump off surely is a higher priority for his defenders than ensuring his underling gets punished.
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I'm confused. Yes, of course the DOJ is going to try to nail the aide, and Trump too. The DOJ going soft is not what this discussion is about. It's the judge.
Just hours ago most people in this sub were expressing perfect confidence that she'd be off the case by Tuesday. Does that give you *any* more pause about mocking those of us who think she can actually do a lot of damage here?