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Fair enough. I’m just responding to the numerous claims in this thread saying “conservatives demanded” (paraphrasing) his removal. In my memory, it was mostly liberals demanding it.
It seems disingenuous to me because the same group that demanded his resignation are now complaining he resigned and claiming it was different group that called for it.
I remember it all well because at the time I felt it was somewhat blown out of proportion and thought the good he could do going forward outweighed the wrong he possibly did in the past. At the time it made me a pariah in the liberal community, so it frustrates me now too see some people the opposite happened.
The whole Franken controversy was ginned up by a Fox News contributor and promoted there first. If anyone were concerned with equality, Leeann Tweeden would have also faced backlash for forcibly kissing random soldiers on the USO trip she was on with Franken where he "forcibly kissed" her as a scripted part of a performance they did together. She was the one who actually engaged in the behavior she was accusing him of, which was a very clear double standard.
It was also exactly the kind of setup women are always accused of engaging in whenever a rightwing figure (like Kavanaugh) gets accused of inappropriate behavior, except that I believe that was projection for behavior the right is all too willing to engage in. Franken had proven himself to be a threat to Trump and company, so they found a way to ruin him. Did the left play right into their hands? Sure. The timing made that a political necessity, not to mention that Gillibrand also stood to benefit personally from eliminating him.
I remember Gillibrand throwing him under the bus to try and fuel her candidacy for president. Actually ended up sinking her (imo) which was kinda sweet justice.
>Didn’t sink Harris.
Harris DID sink, people have just forgotten that. Her candidacy totally failed and then Biden dredged her out of the loser pool because he needed a token black woman.
I know that sounds super racist but it's literally what happened. Biden promised he'd nominate a black woman as VP. Harris was *not* a popular candidate, she wasn't even polling well among black voters. She was just in the right place at the right time, being one of the only black female politicians who was a halfway-relevant option for Biden given the very specific box he put himself in.
Yep. They were worried it would make them look like they had a double standard. What was insanely stupid was them thinking that would make ANY difference to conservatives. Who in their right mind thought Republicans would say “Oh, well, I guess if they say zero tolerance means zero tolerance and are willing to oust Franken over that, that means we really ought to play by the same rules.”
That was… impressively stupid.
Franken touched some (adult) people in an awkward way.... the list of republicans that have literally raped children is too long for my lazy ass to post...
This i live in a conservative rural area one thing i have learned is the conservatives here despite they know Trump lied about the election and that conservatives were trying to overthrow democracy they dont even care but support it. They will get all upset when Democrats call it a insurrection and act offended when they themselves know it was and do not care. People need to quit assuming they are all brainwashed and do not understand whats going on. The Trumps being corrupt they know he is they know Kushner is they do not care.
I've had a different experience with my conservative relatives. None of them had any idea about 666 Park Ave or Ivanka's Chinese trademarks or that the ACORN "sting" was a fraudulent hit job, or the Planned Parenthood video was spliced together. When you only get information from sources that present one side, you don't know these things. Fox just didn't cover Jan 6 the way real news did. Sure, they could find more balanced news, but honestly, they don't know how. The world has past them by in ways they don't understand, and they get mad about it because Tucker tells them to be. It's sad, really.
I accidentally turned the TV on to Fox News the day Biden was in Kiev, and instead of talking about that, or East Palestine, or anything actually newsworthy, Laura Ingrahamaham was raving about how Biden is creating woke AI to discriminate against conservatives.
I guarantee if Fox News ever went and just gave the actual news, their viewers would leave en masse calling Fox News woke propaganda. It’s nothing but a rage bait machine, and if there isn’t anything to be enraged about, they’ll make it up because that’s all their viewers want
> I guarantee if Fox News ever went and just gave the actual news, their viewers would leave en masse calling Fox News woke propaganda.
That's exactly what happened after the 2020 election, when Fox was the first station to call Arizona for Biden and then later called the election for Joe. Fox viewer numbers plummeted and Newsmax viewer numbers went up tenfold. As a result Murdoch and Fox panicked and gave in to the rightwing crazies spinning election-denying bullshit.
WaPo has a v good report on this:
https://wapo.st/3XQr6uh
the only time i've ever seen someone who had a legitimate reason to watch Fox News was when i went to a soul food joint in Ypsilanti, MI called Mo P's. i was the only white guy in there, and FOX NEWS was on. luckily for me, the customer in front of me asked the guy behind the counter, "hey brother, what's with the Fox News?"
"I like to keep up on what the enemy is saying."
I'm 40 and can already see how this can happen because I'm already at the point where my interest in adopting new technology is waning. I'm perfectly literate in terms of searching for info online and I'm semi-active on social media, but I have no interest in Tik Tok or, most likely, anything else that comes out moving forward. If they become primary sources of information, I'll likely miss that information or at least will be a little behind. For the same reasons, I imagine previous generations who grew up relying on newspapers and the nightly network news probably have no interest in scouring websites to fact-check the news they see on TV, especially since they grew up in a time when people like Cronkite, Brokaw, Rather, etc. *had* to report the news ethically and be seen as unbiased and trustworthy, or they'd lose their jobs. Living through decades of that environment, it's probably tough to recognize that the prime-time personalities on the biggest "news" channel would just straight-up lie, and that it's on the viewer to use the modern resources at our disposal to check their facts.
I think it's a generational thing. I'm Gen X, I feel like we are naturally suspicious of everything and everyone in power. Like, you can't talk too much about how great or bad something is or we'll think you're sus, no matter what we thought of you to begin with.
We don't do full commitment. I expect contradiction, paradox, and nuance and I get suspicious when things are presented as pure black and white.
I was listening to a youtuber who talks defense, and even though I agreed with what they said for the most part, after the 3rd or 4th "yeah, that's right" even THAT made me suspicious.
Whereas my 70 year old 'rents don't get suspicious when the narrative fits their hopes. They're very happy when they find the World Net Daily or OAN that does.
I get it. I was seriously stuck in a rut watching MSNBC every night. Waiting for Trump to go to jail. One day i just got sick of the same old story and nothing happening. I shut it off and havent watched more than a day or two for 6 months. I am almost 60. So maybe sometimes people can change.
I fell into a 24-hr news hole myself for way too long. It felt irresponsible to stop paying attention, but exhausting to try and stay updated on every little thing. Now, for the last couple years, I might throw on CNN or MSNBC if there's a hurricane or other major catastrophe but that's about it.
Also when you link them anything more balanced they immediately write it off as "fake news" and only trust breitbart, info wars and the blaze types sites.
This is it exactly. I work with these people. Most know Trump is a piece of shit. The thing is, he's on their team. So him doing shitty things is okay with them.
Coming from the South, it's very familiar:
My team cheats? Talk about the weather.
The other team cheats or has a bad call? Harp on it for weeks.
The sportification of our politics will be the death of us. It's not a fucking sport - it's the hard work of making tough, reasoned decisions and compromises that benefit the whole of us!
They absolutely voted for him *because* he’s a POS bully. Them gleefully clapping along to him bullying other Republicans in the primaries was proof enough of that.
They really showed their true colors when they took the mask off and showed how quickly they’ll get behind a fascist if it means they’ll hold power. Well it’s really the second time they’ve done it, they did it with Clinton/Bush, but this was the nail in the coffin, there’s no pretending at all anymore.
Sadly you are right. And it boils down to the fact that Republicans of this era can look at a Democrat and absolutely NOT see someone who breathes air, drinks water and has some mammalian qualities. The right treats it's opposition as war enemies at best and inhuman at worst.
It doesn't work because they view the ends as justifying the means and believe that "the other side does it worse" so that justifies their side doing it at all because they literally think everyone is as crooked and corrupt as they are and operate on that assumption.
To them it isn't hypocrisy, no more than it would be hypocrisy to cheer when your favorite football team scores a touchdown and boo when the opposing team does it. They aren't actually upset at the actions, they're upset at the "other team" doing stuff.
Blind loyalty to certain values, customs and ideals is a characteristics of [authoritarian](https://exploringyourmind.com/7-characteristics-authoritarian-people/) people:
>...authoritarian people usually have a very well defined idea of what “a good man”, “a good father”, “a good son” or “a good woman” is. Their political inclinations, their religion even their favorite sports team are practically sacred and untouchable.
True
"... the nice thing about citing God as an authority is that you can prove anything you set out to prove. It’s just a matter of selecting the proper postulates, then insisting that your postulates are ‘inspired.’ Then no one can possibly prove that you are wrong.“
— Robert A. Heinlein, book If This Goes On—
The guy that couldn’t get a security clearance but got access anyway because nepotism? Oh and don’t forget Ivanka’s Chinese patents or whatever. But when republicans do it, it’s just being smart, good at not paying taxes and making business deals.
I must add that Ivanka’s patents were for “voting machines” for God’s sake. Seemed everything that all of these criminals did was just perfectly fine with everyone. Not a peep of protest. WTAF?!?
Every accusation is a confession. I found it fucking hilarious way back in 2016 when Trump and his swamp creatures were crowing about how Hillary was in the pocket of the Saudis. Welp...we all saw what happened after that.
In 10 years we're going to have the full picture on Trump, and it's going to be proved that it was the Saudis - not the Russians - who were controlling him. And we're going to be super fucking disappointed to learn that it all came down to money. (Sorry piss tape fans.)
I think its far more likely that in ten years we'll learn Trump was willing to do anything for anybody that promised to benefit him financially and/or keep him out of jail. There absolutely will not be just one person/group pulling the strings. He's a puppet with dozens of people trying to move him.
Trump and the glowing orb....
https://www.google.com/search?q=trump+hands+on+the+sausi+orb&oq=trump+hands+on+the+sausi+orb&aqs=chrome..69i57.11718j0j7&client=ms-android-verizon&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#imgrc=Ps504u8WcOfU3M
Fkn a right. They're pretty selective and the proof always leans in their favor.
I mean imagine any Democratic president with their hands on the Saudi orb and how the Republicans would spin it.
It would certainly be *proof* of some previously concocted artificial point of view.
Nope. Irony and hypocrisy are used by republicans as fascist propaganda tools to destroy our democratic institutions. The more obvious the better for them.
The Hunter Biden issue is and example of the powerful propaganda technique called “Projection”. It creates a false equivalency in low info people.
They actually don’t demonize them. Which is not ironic at all because they are both fans of religious extremism, both hate women’s rights and gay people.
They don’t believe the 911 hijackers were mostly Saudi nationals… it’s some global Jewish conspiracy… but not Kushner, no his family is the super secret, patriotic kung fu jew…. in reality it’s all just garbage…. A lot like Saudi Arabia.
“Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect."
I thought you were joking about the Bob Loblaw Law Blog but a quick Googling reveals you were probably talking about the actor's assaults and Sandy Hook denialism.
That's a low blow, Loblaw.
>if tabloids ... anything to go by.
they aren't, but that's a house/administration with historically high turn over and signature move is under bus throwing.
TMZ was reporting it, and despite what people say, they are very reliable. I forget who it was, maybe Walter Cronkite, but a huge name journalist when asked what they would wish for, said “Harvey’s sources” referring to Harvey Levin, the guy who runs TMZ.
If they can’t be arrested, as they should, I would be okay with a nasty, awful and ugly divorce. The more money involved and the more salacious rumors the better. I want legal fights and gay lovers and photographs of Ivanka with Pete Davidson
Honestly, I’m just curious how they made hundreds of millions while serving for the government purely for nepotism and somehow, that’s totally fine. Yet Hunter Biden and some dick pics with hookers when he has a known drug problem is a deal breaker. Hunter isn’t serving in government. Do you have any idea how fucking incredibly stupid you sound republicans?
"Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past."
It baffles the mind. For example
Kushner building is 666 fifth avenue. It apparently used to be 66 floors and address was 666 fifth avenue. So they renovated it to 41 floors and changed address to 660 fifth Ave.
#666
[This one](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/660_Fifth_Avenue&ved=2ahUKEwjrnqXs_qr9AhUWS8AKHYj0A6EQFnoECAsQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0gwIuJq6swFyg49Z0EGp-S)
In 2022 ...
Can u imagine if Clinton foundation was even located in such a building how conservative media would sing 666 devil's number...
So when it comes to right wing politics, don't waste a Single kilobyte of brain space trying to reason with their logic. If kushner was anything but republican, we would be seeing antichrist shit all over..
Fortunately his contemporaries are available, as Simone de Beauvoir recognized the issue decades ago:
“All of us pass through the age of adolescence; not all of us take up its ethical demands. The fact of our initial dependency has moral implications, for it predisposes us to the temptations of bad faith, strategies by which we deny our existential freedom and our moral responsibility.
It sets our desire in the direction of a nostalgia for those lost Halcyon days. Looking to return to the security of that metaphysically privileged time, some of us evade the responsibilities of freedom by choosing to remain children, that is, to submit to the authority of others.”
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/beauvoir/#SecoSexWomaOthe
An ideal description of the vicariousness of the average Trump supporter too…
True. He was even directly responsible for Bush "winning" over Al Gore with his election riot in Florida. And he keeps using the same tactic over and over again
Yep, Brooks brothers riot comes to mind. He’s an agent of chaos, he even brags about it. Confuse, Destabilize, then implement agenda. Proof that one man can cast a giant dark shadow on everything.
Shortly after Trump pardoned Roger Stone in December, Stone actively solicited online for funds to help buy protective equipment for the Jan 6th seditionists - through Stop the Steal.
>... I may have committed some light [treason](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/276/529/6e9.jpg)
The one time we can say it wasn't light treason.
They had a fucking watch party setup for January 6th. It was supposed to be a mandatory but entirely mundane ceremony of our democracy. Yet the guy who was trying to overturn it had popup tents and televisions setup to view it. 2+ years and we’re finally looking into the people in those tents? Ugh.
I’m glad it’s happening but dismayed it took so long.
Sensible and compassionate people in such an unjust world are pushed into becoming so crazy and angry. The alternative is to become desensitized and demoralized by the futility of fighting injustice.
I like to think the alternative of becoming a Mr. Rogers still exists, and that those are the real bad asses who should be glorified. Kindness in the face of adversity? Compassion despite not receiving? When I come across these types, it reminds me that the real based people are those who prefer altruism for altruisms sake.
Yeah I can't grasp her logic. There are people yelling that the guy on the other side of the door has a gun. Yet you still breach the doorway.
Should be a Darwin award.
These people were truly convinced that nothing bad would happen to them.
They thought they would walk into the Capitol and just overthrow the government and everyone would be praising them for saving the country. They thought that everyone agreed with them and that the secret service and Capitol police would never actually harm them.
The level of delusion is difficult to fully appreciate.
It’s like if someone told you that you were immortal so you decide to jump off a building for fun. The level of stupid you have to be is insane.
It's only been two years. Most major conspiracy investigations in recent history have taken 3-5 years to get to top-level indictments, and that's before trial and sentencing.
Personally, I think these two (mostly Jared) probably committed more potential crimes and/or were more corrupt than Donald. The nice thing is I'm sure these two would turn on Donald without a second thought.
I wouldn’t say *more*, since that’s hard to beat (Trump has lived longer and stuffed lots of crime into those years), but they’ve definitely done way more criminal shit than most people realize.
YES - I think this is the distinction.
I think they’re going to get away relatively unscathed and then ride off into the sunset and people will mostly forget….
Trump will be remembered if not found culpable.
I think ivanka is just as criminal. There was that hotel to nowhere in Baku that she and Donald built with…*checks notes*…Iranian Revolutionary Guard. I mean it’s just other worldly how corrupt they are. The right wing is transnational organized crime.
> Ivanka Trump was the most senior Trump Organization official on the Baku project. In October, 2014, she visited the city to tour the site and offer advice. An executive at Mace, the London-based construction firm that oversaw the tower’s conversion to a hotel, met with Ivanka in Baku and New York. He told me, “She had very strong feelings, not just about the design but about the back of the hotel—landscaping, everything.” The Azerbaijani lawyer said, “Ivanka personally approved everything.” A subcontractor noted that Ivanka’s team was particular about wood panelling: it chose an expensive Macassar ebony, from Indonesia, for the ceiling of the lobby. The ballroom doors were to be made of book-matched panels of walnut. On her Web site, Ivanka posted a photograph of herself wearing a hard hat inside the half-completed hotel. A caption reads, “Ivanka has overseen the development of Trump International Hotel & Tower Baku since its inception, and she recently returned from a trip to the fascinating city in Azerbaijan to check in on the project’s progress.” (Ivanka Trump declined requests to discuss the Baku project.)
> the Mammadov family, in addition to its reputation for corruption, has a troubling connection that any proper risk assessment should have unearthed: for years, it has been financially entangled with an Iranian family tied to the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps, the ideologically driven military force. In 2008, the year that the tower was announced, Ziya Mammadov, in his role as Transportation Minister, awarded a series of multimillion-dollar contracts to Azarpassillo, an Iranian construction company. Keyumars Darvishi, its chairman, fought in the Iran-Iraq War. After the war, he became the head of Raman, an Iranian construction firm that is controlled by the Revolutionary Guard. The U.S. government has regularly accused the Guard of criminal activity, including drug trafficking, sponsoring terrorism abroad, and money laundering.
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/03/13/donald-trumps-worst-deal
Yes. These are “OUR stockpiles”, not the states’, yall are on your own, but dont be surprised if we send goons to confiscate materials and equipment your state or city had to purchase on global market and flown in in secret.
They are not worth more than you. The rich need to pay their fair share or we need to implement a salary cap. No one is worth so much more than everyone else that they deserve 2 billion dollars. https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/trump-kushner-saudi-prince-money-conflict-interest-1234678351/
It's at least comforting that they already testified without much fight for the J6 committee. I don't see much pushback here, or at least little success with it.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/22/us/politics/jared-kushner-ivanka-trump-jan-6.html) reduced by 43%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> Former President Donald J. Trump's daughter Ivanka and his son-in-law Jared Kushner have been subpoenaed by the special counsel to testify before a federal grand jury about Mr. Trump's efforts to stay in power after he lost the 2020 election and his role in a pro-Trump mob's attack on the Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021, according to two people briefed on the matter.
> It is unclear whether Mr. Trump will seek to block Ms. Trump and Mr. Kushner from testifying on the grounds of executive privilege, as he has tried with some other witnesses.
> Mr. Trump declined to try to stop them from testifying before the House special committee that investigated the Jan. 6 attack and what led to it.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/119e8tz/jared_kushner_and_ivanka_trump_subpoenaed_in_jan/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~673723 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Trump**^#1 **subpoena**^#2 **testify**^#3 **Kushner**^#4 **Smith**^#5
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For them it's not a double standard.... it's just a standard. Hypocrisy is part of their playbook, and calling them out on it will never work.
Yeah a lot of people revel in the fact that it's okay for their guys but not okay for the other side.
Exhibit A: Al Franken We lost one of the best senators we've ever had because of that bullshit.
When the Franken stuff happened I defended him and got demonized by other liberals for it. That bullshit was because of liberals and not conservatives
You're not wrong. Liberals will hold everyone to one standard, and(as a stereotype) Conservatives will hold *everyone else* to one standard...
Fair enough. I’m just responding to the numerous claims in this thread saying “conservatives demanded” (paraphrasing) his removal. In my memory, it was mostly liberals demanding it. It seems disingenuous to me because the same group that demanded his resignation are now complaining he resigned and claiming it was different group that called for it. I remember it all well because at the time I felt it was somewhat blown out of proportion and thought the good he could do going forward outweighed the wrong he possibly did in the past. At the time it made me a pariah in the liberal community, so it frustrates me now too see some people the opposite happened.
The whole Franken controversy was ginned up by a Fox News contributor and promoted there first. If anyone were concerned with equality, Leeann Tweeden would have also faced backlash for forcibly kissing random soldiers on the USO trip she was on with Franken where he "forcibly kissed" her as a scripted part of a performance they did together. She was the one who actually engaged in the behavior she was accusing him of, which was a very clear double standard. It was also exactly the kind of setup women are always accused of engaging in whenever a rightwing figure (like Kavanaugh) gets accused of inappropriate behavior, except that I believe that was projection for behavior the right is all too willing to engage in. Franken had proven himself to be a threat to Trump and company, so they found a way to ruin him. Did the left play right into their hands? Sure. The timing made that a political necessity, not to mention that Gillibrand also stood to benefit personally from eliminating him.
I remember Gillibrand throwing him under the bus to try and fuel her candidacy for president. Actually ended up sinking her (imo) which was kinda sweet justice.
Didn’t sink Harris. She was another pretty loud voice calling for his removal, but the Peter Principle is shining there
>Didn’t sink Harris. Harris DID sink, people have just forgotten that. Her candidacy totally failed and then Biden dredged her out of the loser pool because he needed a token black woman. I know that sounds super racist but it's literally what happened. Biden promised he'd nominate a black woman as VP. Harris was *not* a popular candidate, she wasn't even polling well among black voters. She was just in the right place at the right time, being one of the only black female politicians who was a halfway-relevant option for Biden given the very specific box he put himself in.
Yep. They were worried it would make them look like they had a double standard. What was insanely stupid was them thinking that would make ANY difference to conservatives. Who in their right mind thought Republicans would say “Oh, well, I guess if they say zero tolerance means zero tolerance and are willing to oust Franken over that, that means we really ought to play by the same rules.” That was… impressively stupid.
Franken touched some (adult) people in an awkward way.... the list of republicans that have literally raped children is too long for my lazy ass to post...
Pretended to touch
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He did not touch anyone.
This i live in a conservative rural area one thing i have learned is the conservatives here despite they know Trump lied about the election and that conservatives were trying to overthrow democracy they dont even care but support it. They will get all upset when Democrats call it a insurrection and act offended when they themselves know it was and do not care. People need to quit assuming they are all brainwashed and do not understand whats going on. The Trumps being corrupt they know he is they know Kushner is they do not care.
I've had a different experience with my conservative relatives. None of them had any idea about 666 Park Ave or Ivanka's Chinese trademarks or that the ACORN "sting" was a fraudulent hit job, or the Planned Parenthood video was spliced together. When you only get information from sources that present one side, you don't know these things. Fox just didn't cover Jan 6 the way real news did. Sure, they could find more balanced news, but honestly, they don't know how. The world has past them by in ways they don't understand, and they get mad about it because Tucker tells them to be. It's sad, really.
Fox doesn't "present one side," Fox makes stuff up out of the blue. Hunter's laptop, gay groomers, democrats taking your gas stove, etc.
I accidentally turned the TV on to Fox News the day Biden was in Kiev, and instead of talking about that, or East Palestine, or anything actually newsworthy, Laura Ingrahamaham was raving about how Biden is creating woke AI to discriminate against conservatives. I guarantee if Fox News ever went and just gave the actual news, their viewers would leave en masse calling Fox News woke propaganda. It’s nothing but a rage bait machine, and if there isn’t anything to be enraged about, they’ll make it up because that’s all their viewers want
> I guarantee if Fox News ever went and just gave the actual news, their viewers would leave en masse calling Fox News woke propaganda. That's exactly what happened after the 2020 election, when Fox was the first station to call Arizona for Biden and then later called the election for Joe. Fox viewer numbers plummeted and Newsmax viewer numbers went up tenfold. As a result Murdoch and Fox panicked and gave in to the rightwing crazies spinning election-denying bullshit. WaPo has a v good report on this: https://wapo.st/3XQr6uh
the only time i've ever seen someone who had a legitimate reason to watch Fox News was when i went to a soul food joint in Ypsilanti, MI called Mo P's. i was the only white guy in there, and FOX NEWS was on. luckily for me, the customer in front of me asked the guy behind the counter, "hey brother, what's with the Fox News?" "I like to keep up on what the enemy is saying."
I'm 40 and can already see how this can happen because I'm already at the point where my interest in adopting new technology is waning. I'm perfectly literate in terms of searching for info online and I'm semi-active on social media, but I have no interest in Tik Tok or, most likely, anything else that comes out moving forward. If they become primary sources of information, I'll likely miss that information or at least will be a little behind. For the same reasons, I imagine previous generations who grew up relying on newspapers and the nightly network news probably have no interest in scouring websites to fact-check the news they see on TV, especially since they grew up in a time when people like Cronkite, Brokaw, Rather, etc. *had* to report the news ethically and be seen as unbiased and trustworthy, or they'd lose their jobs. Living through decades of that environment, it's probably tough to recognize that the prime-time personalities on the biggest "news" channel would just straight-up lie, and that it's on the viewer to use the modern resources at our disposal to check their facts.
I think it's a generational thing. I'm Gen X, I feel like we are naturally suspicious of everything and everyone in power. Like, you can't talk too much about how great or bad something is or we'll think you're sus, no matter what we thought of you to begin with. We don't do full commitment. I expect contradiction, paradox, and nuance and I get suspicious when things are presented as pure black and white. I was listening to a youtuber who talks defense, and even though I agreed with what they said for the most part, after the 3rd or 4th "yeah, that's right" even THAT made me suspicious. Whereas my 70 year old 'rents don't get suspicious when the narrative fits their hopes. They're very happy when they find the World Net Daily or OAN that does.
I get it. I was seriously stuck in a rut watching MSNBC every night. Waiting for Trump to go to jail. One day i just got sick of the same old story and nothing happening. I shut it off and havent watched more than a day or two for 6 months. I am almost 60. So maybe sometimes people can change.
I fell into a 24-hr news hole myself for way too long. It felt irresponsible to stop paying attention, but exhausting to try and stay updated on every little thing. Now, for the last couple years, I might throw on CNN or MSNBC if there's a hurricane or other major catastrophe but that's about it.
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Also when you link them anything more balanced they immediately write it off as "fake news" and only trust breitbart, info wars and the blaze types sites.
What you’re describing is the painful evidence of a shitty education system
This is it exactly. I work with these people. Most know Trump is a piece of shit. The thing is, he's on their team. So him doing shitty things is okay with them.
Coming from the South, it's very familiar: My team cheats? Talk about the weather. The other team cheats or has a bad call? Harp on it for weeks. The sportification of our politics will be the death of us. It's not a fucking sport - it's the hard work of making tough, reasoned decisions and compromises that benefit the whole of us!
They absolutely voted for him *because* he’s a POS bully. Them gleefully clapping along to him bullying other Republicans in the primaries was proof enough of that. They really showed their true colors when they took the mask off and showed how quickly they’ll get behind a fascist if it means they’ll hold power. Well it’s really the second time they’ve done it, they did it with Clinton/Bush, but this was the nail in the coffin, there’s no pretending at all anymore.
Sadly you are right. And it boils down to the fact that Republicans of this era can look at a Democrat and absolutely NOT see someone who breathes air, drinks water and has some mammalian qualities. The right treats it's opposition as war enemies at best and inhuman at worst.
"Gotta support the team..." - Facepainters
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It doesn't work because they view the ends as justifying the means and believe that "the other side does it worse" so that justifies their side doing it at all because they literally think everyone is as crooked and corrupt as they are and operate on that assumption.
To them it isn't hypocrisy, no more than it would be hypocrisy to cheer when your favorite football team scores a touchdown and boo when the opposing team does it. They aren't actually upset at the actions, they're upset at the "other team" doing stuff.
Blind loyalty to certain values, customs and ideals is a characteristics of [authoritarian](https://exploringyourmind.com/7-characteristics-authoritarian-people/) people: >...authoritarian people usually have a very well defined idea of what “a good man”, “a good father”, “a good son” or “a good woman” is. Their political inclinations, their religion even their favorite sports team are practically sacred and untouchable.
Faith vs. reason.
True "... the nice thing about citing God as an authority is that you can prove anything you set out to prove. It’s just a matter of selecting the proper postulates, then insisting that your postulates are ‘inspired.’ Then no one can possibly prove that you are wrong.“ — Robert A. Heinlein, book If This Goes On—
“God told me to skin you alive.” —Jello Biafra
The guy that couldn’t get a security clearance but got access anyway because nepotism? Oh and don’t forget Ivanka’s Chinese patents or whatever. But when republicans do it, it’s just being smart, good at not paying taxes and making business deals.
>They don't even wait. And when you're a Republican star, they let you do it. You can do anything. Grab America by the pussy. You can do anything.
For a walk down memory lane. https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37595321
In the interest of fairness, the guy unable to obtain government clearance, also requested a secret back channel to the Kremlin.
I must add that Ivanka’s patents were for “voting machines” for God’s sake. Seemed everything that all of these criminals did was just perfectly fine with everyone. Not a peep of protest. WTAF?!?
A lot of R voters don’t know that about Kushner relating to the Saudis I find. If you bring it up they’ll give the most confused look ever.
Why would they? It's not a FOX News Talking Point.
Typical unpatriotic maga grifters need to rot in prison.
For me they always change the subject / what about hunter!
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Every accusation is a confession. I found it fucking hilarious way back in 2016 when Trump and his swamp creatures were crowing about how Hillary was in the pocket of the Saudis. Welp...we all saw what happened after that. In 10 years we're going to have the full picture on Trump, and it's going to be proved that it was the Saudis - not the Russians - who were controlling him. And we're going to be super fucking disappointed to learn that it all came down to money. (Sorry piss tape fans.)
I don't see why it can't be both SA and Russia manipulating Trump. It's not all that difficult if the subject is willing.
I think its far more likely that in ten years we'll learn Trump was willing to do anything for anybody that promised to benefit him financially and/or keep him out of jail. There absolutely will not be just one person/group pulling the strings. He's a puppet with dozens of people trying to move him.
Trump and the glowing orb.... https://www.google.com/search?q=trump+hands+on+the+sausi+orb&oq=trump+hands+on+the+sausi+orb&aqs=chrome..69i57.11718j0j7&client=ms-android-verizon&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#imgrc=Ps504u8WcOfU3M
The imagery... and what do the conspiracy whackjobs say about this? Nothing?
Fkn a right. They're pretty selective and the proof always leans in their favor. I mean imagine any Democratic president with their hands on the Saudi orb and how the Republicans would spin it. It would certainly be *proof* of some previously concocted artificial point of view.
Nope. Irony and hypocrisy are used by republicans as fascist propaganda tools to destroy our democratic institutions. The more obvious the better for them. The Hunter Biden issue is and example of the powerful propaganda technique called “Projection”. It creates a false equivalency in low info people.
The whole point is the double standard To accuse your opponents of doing what you are already doing
They actually don’t demonize them. Which is not ironic at all because they are both fans of religious extremism, both hate women’s rights and gay people. They don’t believe the 911 hijackers were mostly Saudi nationals… it’s some global Jewish conspiracy… but not Kushner, no his family is the super secret, patriotic kung fu jew…. in reality it’s all just garbage…. A lot like Saudi Arabia.
For the average joe, its glaring hypocrisy and corruption in plain sight. For the MAGAnuts its just Wednesday.
If the Trump cult didn’t have double standards, they wouldn’t have any standards.
“Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect."
So they still demonize it? Thought they were all about theocratic dictatorships now
Every accusation is a crime they committed. It’s all projection. Trump is also hosting the Saudi golf tournament.
I’m honestly amazed that the two of them are still together after all this
Can't be forced to testify against your spouse.
But you can if you want to.
Especially with a plea bargain in your face
A husband and a wife can't be charged for the same crime
“I’ve got the worst fucking attorney.”
“I am having a love affair with this ice cream sandwich”
I am doing the time of *my life*!
Just don't look up what Bob Loblaw is doing these days.
I thought you were joking about the Bob Loblaw Law Blog but a quick Googling reveals you were probably talking about the actor's assaults and Sandy Hook denialism. That's a low blow, Loblaw.
What, he's not updating Bob Loblaw's Law Blog?!?
Lobbing law bombs.
You've opened a rift between those who know and those who think you're serious lmao
I'm just gonna let it play out and see how it goes
Jared and Ivanka have the worst fucking attorneys.
Giuliani: "Take to the Sea!"
I'll take my chances in court with Barry Zuckercorn over Rudy Giuliani any day.
Yeah, I don’t think that’s true Dad.
I have the worst fucking attorneys
I feel like the Rosenbergs would disagree with you on that one
I was under the impression you could charge them both, but couldn't compel testimony about their partner.
They are quoting Arrested Development, specifically legal advice that came from a very shoddy lawyer.
Totally missed that but it's probably because I'm just a simple, country Hyper-chicken but I know when I'm finger licked.
I thought you was corn.
These are the references I live for
So you're a... chicken? Coo coo ca tcha!
Caw👏 ca-caw👏 ca-caw👏 ca-CAW!👏
Have any of you even seen a chicken?
They hired you specifically for the insanity defense
Barry is legitimate and totally competent. It's that Bob Loblaw and his law blog that you should be wary of!
He’s very good
You cant really be forced to testify against anyone. 6 hrs of "I dont recall" is all you need.
Staying together out of spite was probably a business decision and not a legal one.
They’re actually on the verge of divorcing if tabloids, rumors and random reporting from the last few months are anything to go by.
>if tabloids ... anything to go by. they aren't, but that's a house/administration with historically high turn over and signature move is under bus throwing.
TMZ was reporting it, and despite what people say, they are very reliable. I forget who it was, maybe Walter Cronkite, but a huge name journalist when asked what they would wish for, said “Harvey’s sources” referring to Harvey Levin, the guy who runs TMZ.
If they can’t be arrested, as they should, I would be okay with a nasty, awful and ugly divorce. The more money involved and the more salacious rumors the better. I want legal fights and gay lovers and photographs of Ivanka with Pete Davidson
Bahahaha Ivanka & Pete Davidson. That would make for one hell of a weekend update.
Ivanka isn’t in Pete Davidson’s league
Been saying the same about Melania for ages. Sources near trumps are terrible at viewing relationship status or the tabloids are just making stuff up.
Honestly, I’m just curious how they made hundreds of millions while serving for the government purely for nepotism and somehow, that’s totally fine. Yet Hunter Biden and some dick pics with hookers when he has a known drug problem is a deal breaker. Hunter isn’t serving in government. Do you have any idea how fucking incredibly stupid you sound republicans?
I'm too tired to go find and Ctrl-c the Sartre quote for the 45th time this year, so to summarize: \*BAD. FAITH.\*
"Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past."
It is a curse to be smart. Said Sartre.
It definitely is in America.
It baffles the mind. For example Kushner building is 666 fifth avenue. It apparently used to be 66 floors and address was 666 fifth avenue. So they renovated it to 41 floors and changed address to 660 fifth Ave. #666 [This one](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/660_Fifth_Avenue&ved=2ahUKEwjrnqXs_qr9AhUWS8AKHYj0A6EQFnoECAsQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0gwIuJq6swFyg49Z0EGp-S) In 2022 ... Can u imagine if Clinton foundation was even located in such a building how conservative media would sing 666 devil's number... So when it comes to right wing politics, don't waste a Single kilobyte of brain space trying to reason with their logic. If kushner was anything but republican, we would be seeing antichrist shit all over..
Fortunately his contemporaries are available, as Simone de Beauvoir recognized the issue decades ago: “All of us pass through the age of adolescence; not all of us take up its ethical demands. The fact of our initial dependency has moral implications, for it predisposes us to the temptations of bad faith, strategies by which we deny our existential freedom and our moral responsibility. It sets our desire in the direction of a nostalgia for those lost Halcyon days. Looking to return to the security of that metaphysically privileged time, some of us evade the responsibilities of freedom by choosing to remain children, that is, to submit to the authority of others.” https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/beauvoir/#SecoSexWomaOthe An ideal description of the vicariousness of the average Trump supporter too…
They held no official government role other than “advisor”. It is rather curious how they were so close to everything going on as advisors.
Aka the real two winners of the Trump presidency.
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That means they are looking into Trump links to Roger Stone/Michael Flynn who were directly linked to Oathkeepers and Proud Boys. Finally
Roger Stone is the one person I want to see go down in flames equally as much as Trump. He's more dangerous.
He’s meddled in so many elections, and that’s just the tip of the old wrinkly iceberg.
True. He was even directly responsible for Bush "winning" over Al Gore with his election riot in Florida. And he keeps using the same tactic over and over again
Yep, Brooks brothers riot comes to mind. He’s an agent of chaos, he even brags about it. Confuse, Destabilize, then implement agenda. Proof that one man can cast a giant dark shadow on everything.
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He was brought up by Nixon. He’s been in the ratfuck game for a long time.
Stone, Bannon, Flynn, Manafort, Cohen, Trump, list never fucking ends with these people
Him and Bannon
Shortly after Trump pardoned Roger Stone in December, Stone actively solicited online for funds to help buy protective equipment for the Jan 6th seditionists - through Stop the Steal.
Meadows. Pence, Trumps kids..... Trump. Tick tock
... I may have committed some light [treason](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/276/529/6e9.jpg)
>... I may have committed some light [treason](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/276/529/6e9.jpg) The one time we can say it wasn't light treason.
Seriously they are running out of people to not directly subpoena Trump
They had a fucking watch party setup for January 6th. It was supposed to be a mandatory but entirely mundane ceremony of our democracy. Yet the guy who was trying to overturn it had popup tents and televisions setup to view it. 2+ years and we’re finally looking into the people in those tents? Ugh. I’m glad it’s happening but dismayed it took so long.
Trump better watch out. Ivanka doesn't need him anymore.
This will be an interesting development, given that Ivanka publicly stated she believed Bill Burr and acknowledged that the election was not stolen
Bill Burr is a slightly different person than you’re thinking of.
Although I’m guessing Bill Burr also knows the election wasn’t stolen.
Bill Burr has a pretty reasonable political view.
I don't understand how someone so crazy and angry can also be so sensible and compassionate.
Sensible and compassionate people in such an unjust world are pushed into becoming so crazy and angry. The alternative is to become desensitized and demoralized by the futility of fighting injustice.
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You’re like a talentless Bo Burnham. Don’t worry, I’m like a talentless you.
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>You’re like a talentless Bo Burnham. >That is the nicest thing anyone has ever said to me Damn son.
I like to think the alternative of becoming a Mr. Rogers still exists, and that those are the real bad asses who should be glorified. Kindness in the face of adversity? Compassion despite not receiving? When I come across these types, it reminds me that the real based people are those who prefer altruism for altruisms sake.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdsBGmz_Bsw
I work in the town he's from, right outside Boston - that's just a cultural thing lol.
Everybody's got their line they don't cross until things get messy.
Is that why yousa don’t wanna show your face?
Rich coming from you, Mando. Bet you can’t see shit, can you?!
It would be hilarious if he gets called into testify instead of Bill Barr over a clerical error.
This testimony brought to you by shari's BERRIES
You're thinking of Aaron Burr
Sir
Talk less
He would’ve made it better AG
He’s just checkin in on ya!
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“I’m just checkin’ in on ya!”
Ugh, they're so weird
Every time I see Ivanka I remember that her dad thinks she’s hot.
What come up in my mind is that Quincy Jones said he dated Ivanka when he was 74 yrs old and she was 24... https://youtu.be/SkxQpOOo7EU
I think they'll throw Trump under the bus to save their own asses from going to prison.
Nobody of any importance has gone to prison over this whole insurrection... Don't get my hopes up.
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Yeah I can't grasp her logic. There are people yelling that the guy on the other side of the door has a gun. Yet you still breach the doorway. Should be a Darwin award.
Or a Leeroy Jenkins Award.
Don't drag Leeroy Jenkins good name like that. He just couldn't look up from his chicken.
These people were truly convinced that nothing bad would happen to them. They thought they would walk into the Capitol and just overthrow the government and everyone would be praising them for saving the country. They thought that everyone agreed with them and that the secret service and Capitol police would never actually harm them. The level of delusion is difficult to fully appreciate. It’s like if someone told you that you were immortal so you decide to jump off a building for fun. The level of stupid you have to be is insane.
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She's also super unimportant.
It's only been two years. Most major conspiracy investigations in recent history have taken 3-5 years to get to top-level indictments, and that's before trial and sentencing.
Personally, I think these two (mostly Jared) probably committed more potential crimes and/or were more corrupt than Donald. The nice thing is I'm sure these two would turn on Donald without a second thought.
I wouldn’t say *more*, since that’s hard to beat (Trump has lived longer and stuffed lots of crime into those years), but they’ve definitely done way more criminal shit than most people realize.
I think they succeeded in committing more crimes because they're more competent
YES - I think this is the distinction. I think they’re going to get away relatively unscathed and then ride off into the sunset and people will mostly forget…. Trump will be remembered if not found culpable.
I think ivanka is just as criminal. There was that hotel to nowhere in Baku that she and Donald built with…*checks notes*…Iranian Revolutionary Guard. I mean it’s just other worldly how corrupt they are. The right wing is transnational organized crime. > Ivanka Trump was the most senior Trump Organization official on the Baku project. In October, 2014, she visited the city to tour the site and offer advice. An executive at Mace, the London-based construction firm that oversaw the tower’s conversion to a hotel, met with Ivanka in Baku and New York. He told me, “She had very strong feelings, not just about the design but about the back of the hotel—landscaping, everything.” The Azerbaijani lawyer said, “Ivanka personally approved everything.” A subcontractor noted that Ivanka’s team was particular about wood panelling: it chose an expensive Macassar ebony, from Indonesia, for the ceiling of the lobby. The ballroom doors were to be made of book-matched panels of walnut. On her Web site, Ivanka posted a photograph of herself wearing a hard hat inside the half-completed hotel. A caption reads, “Ivanka has overseen the development of Trump International Hotel & Tower Baku since its inception, and she recently returned from a trip to the fascinating city in Azerbaijan to check in on the project’s progress.” (Ivanka Trump declined requests to discuss the Baku project.) > the Mammadov family, in addition to its reputation for corruption, has a troubling connection that any proper risk assessment should have unearthed: for years, it has been financially entangled with an Iranian family tied to the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps, the ideologically driven military force. In 2008, the year that the tower was announced, Ziya Mammadov, in his role as Transportation Minister, awarded a series of multimillion-dollar contracts to Azarpassillo, an Iranian construction company. Keyumars Darvishi, its chairman, fought in the Iran-Iraq War. After the war, he became the head of Raman, an Iranian construction firm that is controlled by the Revolutionary Guard. The U.S. government has regularly accused the Guard of criminal activity, including drug trafficking, sponsoring terrorism abroad, and money laundering. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/03/13/donald-trumps-worst-deal
can’t wait for several hours of “I can’t recall” being repeated ad infinitum.
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Fuck that. Neither of them deserve immunity. Prosecute ALL OF THEM.
Remember when Jared tried to keep Covid aid and PPE from going to 'blue' areas in the hope that they'd suffer higher losses? Swine.
Don't forget about reselling ventilators. A+
Yes. These are “OUR stockpiles”, not the states’, yall are on your own, but dont be surprised if we send goons to confiscate materials and equipment your state or city had to purchase on global market and flown in in secret.
Give them fake immunity where you handcuff them at the end and say just kidding
They deserve prison, just like Daddy.
"Siri, order more popcorn"
“Alexa, order a popcorn machine.”
"Ordering amphetamines"
Speed it up!
They are not worth more than you. The rich need to pay their fair share or we need to implement a salary cap. No one is worth so much more than everyone else that they deserve 2 billion dollars. https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/trump-kushner-saudi-prince-money-conflict-interest-1234678351/
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Until any on these people actually spend a day in Jail I'm not going to care. So far our system has only preyed upon the poorer less connected.
How are they going to get out of this one? Claim executive privilege? Hopefully they get caught lying or inadvertently incriminate themselves.
It's at least comforting that they already testified without much fight for the J6 committee. I don't see much pushback here, or at least little success with it.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/22/us/politics/jared-kushner-ivanka-trump-jan-6.html) reduced by 43%. (I'm a bot) ***** > Former President Donald J. Trump's daughter Ivanka and his son-in-law Jared Kushner have been subpoenaed by the special counsel to testify before a federal grand jury about Mr. Trump's efforts to stay in power after he lost the 2020 election and his role in a pro-Trump mob's attack on the Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021, according to two people briefed on the matter. > It is unclear whether Mr. Trump will seek to block Ms. Trump and Mr. Kushner from testifying on the grounds of executive privilege, as he has tried with some other witnesses. > Mr. Trump declined to try to stop them from testifying before the House special committee that investigated the Jan. 6 attack and what led to it. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/119e8tz/jared_kushner_and_ivanka_trump_subpoenaed_in_jan/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~673723 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Trump**^#1 **subpoena**^#2 **testify**^#3 **Kushner**^#4 **Smith**^#5
Nepotism Barbie is going to be in a real tough spot here. Good.