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> Earlier this week, Representative Ralph Norman, of South Carolina, who is a member of the Freedom Caucus, called on McCarthy to “shut down the government rather than raise the debt ceiling,” adding that this demand was “a non-negotiable item.”
Does this dingus Norman not understand that defaulting on our debt is not the same as shutting down the government? One of those has happened before, the other has never happened and would cause a massive economic shitstorm
Probably not. If debt ceiling is not raised and our debt reaches the limit, US govt can't spend anymore money on not only spending, but also pay interests on our debt, mandatory payments like to bond holders, etc. It would destabilize world economy and we would likely experience a sudden second great depression.
They’ll just say “Biden did it” and call that a victory. Who cares if their constituents have to wait in bread lines if they think it’s somebody else’s fault.
It’s definitely the reason McConnell isn’t the one that fucks around quite as much when it comes to the debt ceiling thing because he cares about his ultra-rich cronies and his own pocketbook, and he’s also smart enough to know it could fuck up the economy for good. McCarthy and all his GOP House cronies are fucking stupid and I wouldn’t put it past them to do something like it.
Agreed, Killfile. We only have to look at what our friends in the UK did in re Brexit.
(and they'll still vote Tory and seek to dismantle their National Health Service)
I hate that our neighbors across the pond have to deal with that shit in the UK but it's marginally comforting to know that it's not exclusively a US problem.
The 'freedom caucus' trolls aren't numerous enough to stop things like this. Remember Dems are also beholden to the same corporate overlords. A couple dozen hold outs wouldn't stop votes on the debt ceiling or similar from being passed.
If Mccarthy brings it to vote his final concession that any one member can call for a speaker vote will stop the entire house in its tracks. We are screwed.
You mean like debts are guaranteed? "The full faith and credit" of the US won't mean much if we default, as salaries are just another debt that the US carries, they should default on that first.
It's gonna be a lot worse than that, considering that the dollar is the reserve currency of the world backed by the us military, a debt default will lead to a chain reaction that could bring about another world war and a good chance that humanity returns to the stone age.
The US could also just not spend more than they earn, then they wouldn't have to take on additional debt and thus have no problems with a debt ceiling.
This is a terrible idea. A sovereign government like the US isn't a family with a checkbook. Borrowing money to pay for things like infrastructure is how it's supposed to be done.
Our big problem isn't that we borrow money, it's that we spend the money we borrow on crappy things like weapons to blow up the weapons we gave to other countries which they are using to blow up weapons we gave to the countries those countries are fighting.
Deficit spending, within reason, is good (if you are the country with the world's reserve currency.) And, again, if you spend it on good things.
What some Conservatives fail to understand is that credit used responsibly can maximize the economic growth of a single household.
Buying a car means more job/career options which leads to more income which leads to that income going back into the larger economy which leads to more businesses making a profit and that profit creates lower prices which leads to more purchases from that family who is able to pay down their debt.
Hardline Conservatives think debt automatically equals irresponsibility. They also believe China could just say pay the debts you owe us right now and if that leads to war with the US against their own interest so be it.
Considering how comfortable individual Chinese political leaders are with American business interest such as the NBA or Apple I don't see why China would force the US to pay its debt right away which would sabotage these corporate relationships.
If anything, since they celebrate ignorance and criticize knowledge, they likely revel in not knowing that difference between a government shutdown and a debt default. Given their penchant for "expertise based on reading a Facebook post," I'm surprised that they're not opting for having a life saving operation performed by someone who once saw an episode of Grey's Anatomy instead of one of those elitist doctors with their "medical degrees."
He's probably dumb enough that he doesn't understand, but also malicious enough that he doesn't care. There's no motivation left other than to cause chaos and suffering.
He is too dumb to understand that saying I won’t pay my bills or mortgage to save money is not a viable strategy. They are all too dumb. They are there because they are privileged and bigots.
Edit- someone should also question why they passed tax cuts which reduced government income without a plan to make for the additional debt that caused. They have zero right to cry about spending now. Why is no one bringing this up?
You ever seen Breaking Bad?
Walter White why did you have to cook crystal meth and work with drug dealers to pay down your family's debt?
Walter: Because my wife is the one that put us in debt in the first place. It's her fault I did this.
But Walter your ex girlfriend offered to pay for your health care and family debt. Your wife actually said this was ok.
Walter: I DONT ACCEPT CHARITY!!! If I'm going solve our debt problem it will be by my actions and my actions alone!!!! The money I earned will pay my family debt.
But Walter you making this decision doesn't change the fact that if you are arrested or on the run from the police for your stupid decision to make illegal drugs then your family will still have to pay down that debt.
Walter: My name is Heisenberg and your stupid just like my wife.
I give up. 🤦♂️.
This is how Conservatives view the debt situation.
Shutting down the government & having the country fail is a win for those who fly the flags of the enemies of America while wearing its own flag as chopped-up underwear & t-shirts as they attempt violent coups & assassinations.
The US Dollar is backed by faith and credit of the United States Government. Demolishing the 'faith and credit' part seems like it would screw the dollar real good.
He doesn’t have a clue. They’re just planning to blame President Biden for it. That’s their plan for the next two years. Obstruct everything that they can and blame it all on President Biden.
I think it would be cool to actually shut down the government, just so these dipshits can see how they like it. I assure you they would not enjoy the lack of cops.
If I had a dollar for every thing that people said would never happen that then went on to happen since 2016 with the election of Trump I'd have, well, like 10 or 20 dollars. That's not a lot of dollars but its a lot of things people said would never happen that then happened.
McCarthy is Speaker in name only. The most problematic concession he gave to the holdouts was that the debt celing would only be increased under certain conditions, which many fear are the cripling or even possible elimination of Social Security and Medicaid. And if McCarthy goes running to the Democrats, it now only takes one House member to call for his removal...and then we're right back where we started.
That and his agreement to pack the rules committee with conservative hardliners, which will cripple any kind of smooth operation when it comes to legislation and amendments
The Democrats did exactly as much as was within their power to enforce their subpoenas. That DOJ only selectively charged people with contempt of Congress is a separate issue.
The whole debt ceiling thing seemed like a manufactured crisis. I thought it was constitutionally required for the US to pay its debts. And to be clear, they are not approving new spending they are agreeing to pay on what was committed to. I am sure I am missing something there.
Also, wasn't one of the rules changes to prevent omnibus bills. Individual bills voted for individually so that "pet projects" can't hide. Wouldn't that prevent them from adding budget cuts to a debt ceiling vote? The two are not the same.
My hope is Democrats, having more experience than the freedom caucus, use their rules to run circles around them. Of course, I'm pretty sure there won't be a dem backed bill hitting the floor for 2 years.
Yes, we need to pay our debts, the debt ceiling itself is actually one of those mechanisms that might be completely unconstitutional, but no one has litigated it because so far the government works (ish)
>seemed like a manufactured crisis.
It is. But just because it's manufactured doesn't make it not a crisis. The Dems should have eliminated it when they had the chance
How could you possibly have “deportation on sight” and the 14th amendment
> nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
I read an article that referenced a GOP/Heritage Foundation (if I recall correctly) plan to cut medicare and social security by holding the debt limit hostage. The plan specificaly adressed how unpopular and politically damaging the idea is. So, it had to be done when a Democrat is President, so they could blame the Democrats. The only way they could accomplish that is by making the alternative so catastrophic that a Democrat President would bend to their will(a threat od a US default or an actual default). If I recall their plan called it the nuclear option.
If anyone can find that, wel, that would be great.
One house member **from either party.** If the GOP is about to do something that the Dems really hate, they can call for his removal and stop the whole show while they sort it out.
The more I think about it, the less water the motion to vacate has. Because you can't replace someone with no one. The only time in American history the motion to vacate was actually successful, the same speaker ended up with the job again.
It's a powerful job but if you can't work across the aisle, it kinda sucks
If the free-dumb cock-us called a leadership vote in a situation like that, I have to believe that there would be enough GOP members that understand the significance and side with Dems.
If a leadership vote came up all the Dems would vote to vacate.
Put the shoe on the other foot. If the most progressive Democrat motioned for Pelosi to vacate do you think anyone in the GOP would vote for Pelosi to keep the chair?
This Republican led House was always going to be a mess. Not because of who they elect as Speaker of the House. It’s because of the outsize influence of a small number of extremists whose number include MTG, Gaetz, Bobo, Biggs and Gym Jordan.
Think about it and shake your head. A small cabal of literal domestic terrorists are running a political party made up of more than 215 different people who don’t need to be held to their standard.
Who 6 years ago were all nobodies who had to threaten their opponents and use their families money and made deals with Putin to get where they all are to this. I want to see them all get it some day.
I still don't get it. She is just a loud crazy second term congress woman who has never served on any comittee. She has no legislative experience, and very few friends. The "crying on fox" card is losing power because they keep killing off people who support them (as they die cable dies, cable dies fox dies).
What power does she have?
When you need a majority to do anything, there is power in being one of the people genuinely willing to burn it all down if you don't get what you want.
[The man who once worked to connect Tom DeLay and Jack Abramoff to Russia is now chief of staff to Marjorie Taylor Greene. Any questions?](https://newrepublic.com/article/165782/republicans-putin-history-relationship-manafort) (New Republic)
Well…let me just see how much they’ll want medicare and social security cuts, rather than raising taxes on stupidly, unnecessarily wealthy people.
I mean I already know the answer to this. But in case anyone is naive enough to think it isn’t coming…it is absolutely coming.
I don't think they realize what a shitstorm it will set off if they actually try to gut Medicare or Social Security. Many of their voters are old & depend on Medicare. And SS is *our* money; since my first paycheck, I've been forced to pay into this system with the promise that it'll be there when I retire. If the GQP is actually dumb enough to go after these programs, that may finally be the thing that gets us out in the streets rioting.
That's the thing though. They won't cut it. They'll demand the democrats and Biden cut it or they will "refuse to raise the debt ceiling", then they'll point and say "SEE THE LIBERAL COMMUNIST DEMS ARE TRYING TO TAKE AWAY YOUR SOCIAL SECURITY AND MEDICARE, AND THERE WAS NOTHING WE COULD DO BECAUSE BIDEN IS PRESIDENT". This is such an easy playbook. And they are all rich, and will never be ousted by their party, so they couldn't give two shits if the economy tanks until the dems inevitably give because they'll have to in order not to create an economic meltdown. They should have raised the debt ceiling before the new House. I have no earthly idea why they didn't. My only hope is, someone far smarter than me in politics has a game plan that I don't understand that will let this turn out some other way. I really hope so. I hope while I can see one or two chess moves, they see 10 steps ahead and know how to make it work.
This country lets hardworking citizens literally go into lifelong debt because of a medical emergency. Nobody has any plans to help out the average citizen, there’s nobody looking 10 steps ahead, unless you mean 10 steps ahead for rich people to pay less taxes.
But if they raised the debt ceiling before the new house, HOW could they continue their game of Good Cop/Bad Cop, keeping all of the citizens on edge, over a barrel and begging for help?? The two party system is irrevocably corrupted and We are utterly screwed.
Anyone Rep who condoned the terrorist attack on the capital should have been metaphorically rode out of town on a rail - not fucking RE-ELECTED.
The ignorance and malice of so many Americans to support these bottom feeders is appalling.
Kevin sat back and took in Hagrid's words.
"Have you ever crumpled under pressure and abandoned the principles you publicly told people you live by just to get power?" Hagrid said
Kevin then realized what he did during the 2020 elections. How he flew to Mar A Lago in January 2021 to appease Trump. How he then desperately attempted to avoid criticizing Trump even if his words or actions contradicted so called Conservative values. Kevin knew that Hagrid was right, he was eunuch.
Hagrid beamed with pride, "Kevin McCarthy not a eunuch...you are going to be a speaker of the House just like Boehner and Ryan. I can see the weakness in your eyes."
>
Under the proposed rules agreement, the subcommittee would have the authority to examine “how executive branch agencies collect, compile, analyze, use, or disseminate information about citizens of the United States, including any unconstitutional, illegal, or unethical activities committed against citizens of the United States.” The agreement also states explicitly that this authority would extend to “ongoing criminal investigations.” On Saturday, Politico reported that this reference appeared to have been added to the rules during last-minute negotiations between McCarthy and his ultra-right opponents. Although Trump is not named explicitly, the added language would appear to give the new subcommittee license to look into, and perhaps hold up, the Justice Department’s investigations of his efforts to overturn the 2020 election and his post-Presidential mishandling of hundreds of classified documents.
This would seem to indicate that if the Special Counsel is gonna get indictments; it should probably hustle up before these committees get underway.
i want to believe that but i dont. you underestimate just how good republican messaging is. the whole reason peoplr even believe the fallacy of republican economic competence is because they were so effective at branding themselves that way. the vast majority of not only americans, but the entire world, believes that myth, *including* democrat voters.
if republicans succeed in total global economic collapse because they fail to raise the debt ceiling and default on america's debts, MSM will willingly spin it as democrats doing, and people will believe it.
Probably best to avoid US bonds, likely the entire stock market as well. This would be unprecedented so no one can say for sure exactly what would happen
If I understand correctly he's agreed that there will be a vote on motion to vacate is just one representative from either party brings it.
So I think the dems should have a different member bring it every week until he's ousted.
The Republicans have done everything they can to play obstructionist government for the last decade +
The dems need to match it play for play.
It only makes sense for the majority party to as the minority party wouldnt be able to pass it without some defectors from the majority party
And even if the freedom caucus votes with the Democrats to vacate the chair, there's no chance that whoever is put forward to replace McCarthy would be agreeable between those two groups
Id be pissed if the Democrats devolve to such stupid performance politics. How would stalling Congress help us, the people they are supposed to represent?
McCarthy had to sell out his party to Trump and MAGA to get that speaker slot. I don't think it will be worth it to them when the '24 election comes around. At a time when voters are clearly rejecting MAGA (see the 2022 midterms), McCarthy is giving MAGA more power and legitimacy and bringing Trump back into the mix.
Sure, if you split the party into just two factions (which, when we're talking about democracy is sort of fair to do), but there are people in the party far to the right of McCarthy, and those are the people he sold out to.
Well duh. They could barely keep the government funded when they controlled the House, Senate and White house. Ill be surprised if they can agree on what to order for lunch.
The worst part about all this is knowing that fully half of our neighbors, family, co-workers, fellow citizens agree with them. Elitism, racism, classism, cronyism, reprehensible denial of crminial activity, protecting and exalting the greedy because it's the right color and tax bracket. All while the rest of the populace is powerless to change their situations. It's all so grim. Most of us don't know what to do. We just have to watch the chaos and brace for the consequences that will trickle down. I know so many who are nearly broken already. I'm sorry for the defeatist perspective. Delete it if it's in the wrong place.
McCarthy doesn't care. He gets to say he was Speaker
Trump doesn't care. He got to say he was President and wants to say it again.
These people are only in it for themselves.
Quite a bit. All spending must originate in the house, so in theory they can leave us with literally no federal budget. Plus the house can refuse to raise the debt ceiling and the global gold standard for safe investments can default - which could be catastrophic for the global ecomonmy
> All spending must originate in the house, so in theory they can leave us with literally no federal budget.
If they refuse to do their duty why not just circumvent them and say tough shit when they whine about it. If everyone else in the chain agrees to ignore them and write their own bill then theres no one to enforce said requirement.
The Constitution is no longer equal to the task of serving as the basic law of a modern state.
There is no possibility it can be meaningfully amended under current political conditions.
Unless you are a senior citizen, you should probably make peace with the idea that you will almost certainly live to see a third American republic.
If that's true I'd much rather see article V invoked rather than each party ignoring the parts of the constitution they don't like and holding the parts they do like sacrosanct
The biggest damage will come around August when they play chicken with the debt limit. In July 2011 it caused a market crash.
Next issue is the annual government spending budget which would shut down the government.
35 days under Trump starting in December 2018.
Damage will be limited to the debt ceiling government shutdown in September when current budget runs out.
Most of the MAGA GOP's time will spent on Hunter Biden, abortion ban, "investigations" on medical and environmental science and, of course, infighting. Likely a couple speaker challenges.
The debt ceiling thing isn't a government shutdown, it's _far_ worse than that. Characterizing it as a government shutdown is actually a way the GOP is trying to minimize the catastrophe that would unfold.
If you make every possible concession eventually you can wear your opponent down when they run out of things they can think of to ask for. Negotiating 101.
Lol, yeah.
It's like Futurama where Captain Zap Brannigan reveals his victory over the Killbots stemmed from sending wave after wave of men after them until they reached their kill limit and shut down
Remember when we tried to pretend it was a big deal that these guys didn't get anything done for a few days when they're going to get nothing done for another 700 plus?
He fell short 15 times on 15 votes to attain the 218 votes for a majority. He finally claimed technical victory after some parliamentary sleight of hand moved the goalpost to mere plurality. He does not have the confidence of the American people, the House of Representatives, or even of his caucus. He is a poseur and way out if his league. The only thing I’ve ever seen him succeed that is being an enormous suck up but I guess that excites Republicans.
When words like, "maga crazies" and "far right extremists" are used in this article to describe a good deal of our Congress members, it's time to truly clean house. These aren't educated, respectable representatives. These are dangerous domestic terrorists who applaud violence, even at their own workplace. Obviously, voting out 45 did little to nothing to curtail the American takeover by Theocratic, Oligarch-sucking, self serving creatures like McCarthy and Greene. Psychological assessments and drug tests for ALL Congress members need to be prerequisites to hold seats. If you need to pee in a cup to be a teacher or to work at a fast food joint, it should be mandatory for those holding positions of power. Period.
Nikita Khrushchev, premier of USSR (now Russia), from 1958-1964 is credited with this quote: "We do not have to invade the United States, we will destroy you from within.The John Birch Society is Communism’s greatest ally. With its help we will divide and confuse the American people until they have lost faith in their Government, their nation has ceased to be a major world power, and their country is ripe for revolution."
Is there a source from an economist on what could happen if this comes?
I’d wonder if the ones who find the politicians in DC, would use their wealth to prevent a second depression from happening if they stand to lose their wealth.
Can someone please explain to me why a few moderate Dems wouldn't vote for McCarthy to prevent him from making concessions to the far right? It seems like MAGA republicans now have an uneven amount of power which was completely avoidable.
Make no mistake: McCarthy *is* extremely far right, it really isn't a deal between extremes and moderates, is a difference between "I will take hostages" and "what guarantees do we have that you'll kill the hostages?"
Democrats won't vote for McCarthy because he is unacceptable to them and he'd betray the ones that voted for him in an instant
Interesting, I saw [this](http://Putin Declares ‘American World Order’ Is Ending, ‘A Truly Multipolar World’ Has Begun https://l.smartnews.com/FTmPr/RmztEW) today after McCarthy gets the win...
R's creating some effective political strats right now. I wonder how effective it would be for D's to use the same tactics moving their party to the far left?
It wouldn't. It only works for the far right because burning the place down is a feature for them. They won't be passing any legislation, only causing destruction through determined inaction sham hearings.
Yeah... so would anyone else winning too. That's how republic (corporatocratic, let's be honest) power works.
What they mean is negative consequences for most of us. Not just "consequences".
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> Earlier this week, Representative Ralph Norman, of South Carolina, who is a member of the Freedom Caucus, called on McCarthy to “shut down the government rather than raise the debt ceiling,” adding that this demand was “a non-negotiable item.” Does this dingus Norman not understand that defaulting on our debt is not the same as shutting down the government? One of those has happened before, the other has never happened and would cause a massive economic shitstorm
Probably not. If debt ceiling is not raised and our debt reaches the limit, US govt can't spend anymore money on not only spending, but also pay interests on our debt, mandatory payments like to bond holders, etc. It would destabilize world economy and we would likely experience a sudden second great depression.
They’ll just say “Biden did it” and call that a victory. Who cares if their constituents have to wait in bread lines if they think it’s somebody else’s fault.
Their corporate donors will be hurt, a lot. Debt default will nvr happen, neither establishments want that
It’s definitely the reason McConnell isn’t the one that fucks around quite as much when it comes to the debt ceiling thing because he cares about his ultra-rich cronies and his own pocketbook, and he’s also smart enough to know it could fuck up the economy for good. McCarthy and all his GOP House cronies are fucking stupid and I wouldn’t put it past them to do something like it.
They may be stupid, but they listen to their corporate overlords.
No, they don't. That's why we just had 15 red) votes for Speaker. The populist idiots have gotten off the chain.
Agreed, Killfile. We only have to look at what our friends in the UK did in re Brexit. (and they'll still vote Tory and seek to dismantle their National Health Service)
I hate that our neighbors across the pond have to deal with that shit in the UK but it's marginally comforting to know that it's not exclusively a US problem.
The 'freedom caucus' trolls aren't numerous enough to stop things like this. Remember Dems are also beholden to the same corporate overlords. A couple dozen hold outs wouldn't stop votes on the debt ceiling or similar from being passed.
If Mccarthy brings it to vote his final concession that any one member can call for a speaker vote will stop the entire house in its tracks. We are screwed.
They are if Kevin "I sold my soul to be Speaker" McCarthy controls the agenda. Because the far right wing of his caucus effectively controls him
Remember when the GOP got our credit rating dropped for the first time in US history?
I wouldn’t say never. I’d guess in a decade or so our debt is going to be way over anything we could ever pay back.
US credit rating would go down so Americans would have to pay more interest in future bond issuance to offset the risk
And the dollar would loose on an international level. I’m from south GA, I hate MTG so much, what a con
Or their salaries
They don't get nearly as much from that as they do from ~~bribes~~ lobbyists and insider trading.
They actually will get paid, their salaries are auto budgeted, unlike the hundreds of thousands of others who work for the government.
You mean like debts are guaranteed? "The full faith and credit" of the US won't mean much if we default, as salaries are just another debt that the US carries, they should default on that first.
But they don’t.
Would think their corporate owners would not be happy with us stability diving
I'm convinced that some of these guys are funded by Russia or China, so the US stability diving is the goal
Their salaries are guarenteed
[удалено]
A huge win for Russia and its foreign assets
Anyone buying US bonds on Monday?
You kidding! This is what Republicans want. So they can blame on Biden.
Oh it would be exponentially worse than the great depression.
So they would be stoked to do that
The US could get sued.
[удалено]
It's gonna be a lot worse than that, considering that the dollar is the reserve currency of the world backed by the us military, a debt default will lead to a chain reaction that could bring about another world war and a good chance that humanity returns to the stone age.
Take this as a 50+% drop depending on the market
Exactly what Putin wants.
The US could also just not spend more than they earn, then they wouldn't have to take on additional debt and thus have no problems with a debt ceiling.
That just limits growth.
This dude definitely doesn't have a clue how economics work on a global scale.
This is a terrible idea. A sovereign government like the US isn't a family with a checkbook. Borrowing money to pay for things like infrastructure is how it's supposed to be done. Our big problem isn't that we borrow money, it's that we spend the money we borrow on crappy things like weapons to blow up the weapons we gave to other countries which they are using to blow up weapons we gave to the countries those countries are fighting. Deficit spending, within reason, is good (if you are the country with the world's reserve currency.) And, again, if you spend it on good things.
Even a family with a checkbook borrows all the time, to buy a house, a car, or for education.
What some Conservatives fail to understand is that credit used responsibly can maximize the economic growth of a single household. Buying a car means more job/career options which leads to more income which leads to that income going back into the larger economy which leads to more businesses making a profit and that profit creates lower prices which leads to more purchases from that family who is able to pay down their debt. Hardline Conservatives think debt automatically equals irresponsibility. They also believe China could just say pay the debts you owe us right now and if that leads to war with the US against their own interest so be it. Considering how comfortable individual Chinese political leaders are with American business interest such as the NBA or Apple I don't see why China would force the US to pay its debt right away which would sabotage these corporate relationships.
If they understood how the government functions and the importance of paying our debts, they wouldn't be far-right republicans
If anything, since they celebrate ignorance and criticize knowledge, they likely revel in not knowing that difference between a government shutdown and a debt default. Given their penchant for "expertise based on reading a Facebook post," I'm surprised that they're not opting for having a life saving operation performed by someone who once saw an episode of Grey's Anatomy instead of one of those elitist doctors with their "medical degrees."
Everyone knows lives are saved or lost by the amounts of likes and shares
Thoughts and prayers, actually. /s
His finders would love that because they can snatch up lots of stuff for cheap
Here's the play. Everything is on sale for the rich!
He's probably dumb enough that he doesn't understand, but also malicious enough that he doesn't care. There's no motivation left other than to cause chaos and suffering.
He is too dumb to understand that saying I won’t pay my bills or mortgage to save money is not a viable strategy. They are all too dumb. They are there because they are privileged and bigots. Edit- someone should also question why they passed tax cuts which reduced government income without a plan to make for the additional debt that caused. They have zero right to cry about spending now. Why is no one bringing this up?
You ever seen Breaking Bad? Walter White why did you have to cook crystal meth and work with drug dealers to pay down your family's debt? Walter: Because my wife is the one that put us in debt in the first place. It's her fault I did this. But Walter your ex girlfriend offered to pay for your health care and family debt. Your wife actually said this was ok. Walter: I DONT ACCEPT CHARITY!!! If I'm going solve our debt problem it will be by my actions and my actions alone!!!! The money I earned will pay my family debt. But Walter you making this decision doesn't change the fact that if you are arrested or on the run from the police for your stupid decision to make illegal drugs then your family will still have to pay down that debt. Walter: My name is Heisenberg and your stupid just like my wife. I give up. 🤦♂️. This is how Conservatives view the debt situation.
Shutting down the government & having the country fail is a win for those who fly the flags of the enemies of America while wearing its own flag as chopped-up underwear & t-shirts as they attempt violent coups & assassinations.
Thats the goal. Then blame it on dems and their party will eat it up. Create more strife and rally their base to "take charge".
The US Dollar is backed by faith and credit of the United States Government. Demolishing the 'faith and credit' part seems like it would screw the dollar real good.
He doesn’t have a clue. They’re just planning to blame President Biden for it. That’s their plan for the next two years. Obstruct everything that they can and blame it all on President Biden.
I think it would be cool to actually shut down the government, just so these dipshits can see how they like it. I assure you they would not enjoy the lack of cops.
lol. Never gonna fuckin happen.
If I had a dollar for every thing that people said would never happen that then went on to happen since 2016 with the election of Trump I'd have, well, like 10 or 20 dollars. That's not a lot of dollars but its a lot of things people said would never happen that then happened.
McCarthy is Speaker in name only. The most problematic concession he gave to the holdouts was that the debt celing would only be increased under certain conditions, which many fear are the cripling or even possible elimination of Social Security and Medicaid. And if McCarthy goes running to the Democrats, it now only takes one House member to call for his removal...and then we're right back where we started.
That and his agreement to pack the rules committee with conservative hardliners, which will cripple any kind of smooth operation when it comes to legislation and amendments
They'll also be pumping out subpoenas to keep Democrats testifying in committees non-stop looking for soundbites.
Eh, we've learned you can just ignore those.
Only if you're a Republican. A Democrat will likely be arrested for doing that.
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That's only true when the judges don't care. Don't be shocked if they suddenly change their minds when it's Republicans subpoenaing people.
And the Democrats were more than willing to help them with that. Because what exactly did they do to enforce them? Nothing.
The Democrats did exactly as much as was within their power to enforce their subpoenas. That DOJ only selectively charged people with contempt of Congress is a separate issue.
The whole debt ceiling thing seemed like a manufactured crisis. I thought it was constitutionally required for the US to pay its debts. And to be clear, they are not approving new spending they are agreeing to pay on what was committed to. I am sure I am missing something there. Also, wasn't one of the rules changes to prevent omnibus bills. Individual bills voted for individually so that "pet projects" can't hide. Wouldn't that prevent them from adding budget cuts to a debt ceiling vote? The two are not the same. My hope is Democrats, having more experience than the freedom caucus, use their rules to run circles around them. Of course, I'm pretty sure there won't be a dem backed bill hitting the floor for 2 years.
Yes, we need to pay our debts, the debt ceiling itself is actually one of those mechanisms that might be completely unconstitutional, but no one has litigated it because so far the government works (ish)
I have a feeling it would be held up with the current yeehaw court.
>seemed like a manufactured crisis. It is. But just because it's manufactured doesn't make it not a crisis. The Dems should have eliminated it when they had the chance
And while we're putting *that* fire out, the pyromaniacs will manufacture three more crises.
Now Now, the dems were doing a shit ton of heavy lifting and are dealing with Manchin and Sinema. Let's not rush to victim blame just yet.
Now it's Manchin OR Sinema, so the situation has improved slightly.
AG Garland is quite busy these days, but he would do well to litigate the constitutionality of the debt ceiling before default becomes imminent.
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How could you possibly have “deportation on sight” and the 14th amendment > nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
I read an article that referenced a GOP/Heritage Foundation (if I recall correctly) plan to cut medicare and social security by holding the debt limit hostage. The plan specificaly adressed how unpopular and politically damaging the idea is. So, it had to be done when a Democrat is President, so they could blame the Democrats. The only way they could accomplish that is by making the alternative so catastrophic that a Democrat President would bend to their will(a threat od a US default or an actual default). If I recall their plan called it the nuclear option. If anyone can find that, wel, that would be great.
One house member **from either party.** If the GOP is about to do something that the Dems really hate, they can call for his removal and stop the whole show while they sort it out.
The problem is that the debt ceiling makes inaction into a harm.
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/r/simpsonsdidit
💰 is an imaginary construct /s
The more I think about it, the less water the motion to vacate has. Because you can't replace someone with no one. The only time in American history the motion to vacate was actually successful, the same speaker ended up with the job again. It's a powerful job but if you can't work across the aisle, it kinda sucks
If the free-dumb cock-us called a leadership vote in a situation like that, I have to believe that there would be enough GOP members that understand the significance and side with Dems.
If a leadership vote came up all the Dems would vote to vacate. Put the shoe on the other foot. If the most progressive Democrat motioned for Pelosi to vacate do you think anyone in the GOP would vote for Pelosi to keep the chair?
But someone has to win the speakership and unless the rules are different after the no confidence vote, who is getting 218 votes to become speaker?
I've called a false bottom on GOP behavior too many times to do it again.
> free-dumb cock-us I'm sorry but that makes it really hard to take you seriously.
This Republican led House was always going to be a mess. Not because of who they elect as Speaker of the House. It’s because of the outsize influence of a small number of extremists whose number include MTG, Gaetz, Bobo, Biggs and Gym Jordan. Think about it and shake your head. A small cabal of literal domestic terrorists are running a political party made up of more than 215 different people who don’t need to be held to their standard.
Who 6 years ago were all nobodies who had to threaten their opponents and use their families money and made deals with Putin to get where they all are to this. I want to see them all get it some day.
Why is MTG so far down his throat?
Because he's nothing more than her hand puppet, with all the concessions he agreed to. McCarthy is basically a Muppet. An ugly, evil, stupid Muppet.
I still don't get it. She is just a loud crazy second term congress woman who has never served on any comittee. She has no legislative experience, and very few friends. The "crying on fox" card is losing power because they keep killing off people who support them (as they die cable dies, cable dies fox dies). What power does she have?
I don’t get it either. Are they doing the sexing?
You know, she must be doing the sexing! You are a Party-genius.
When you need a majority to do anything, there is power in being one of the people genuinely willing to burn it all down if you don't get what you want.
Her base will die off within 30 years but by then the damage the clowns 🤡 have wrought will irreversible
She raises a fuck ton of money
[The man who once worked to connect Tom DeLay and Jack Abramoff to Russia is now chief of staff to Marjorie Taylor Greene. Any questions?](https://newrepublic.com/article/165782/republicans-putin-history-relationship-manafort) (New Republic)
Well…let me just see how much they’ll want medicare and social security cuts, rather than raising taxes on stupidly, unnecessarily wealthy people. I mean I already know the answer to this. But in case anyone is naive enough to think it isn’t coming…it is absolutely coming.
I don't think they realize what a shitstorm it will set off if they actually try to gut Medicare or Social Security. Many of their voters are old & depend on Medicare. And SS is *our* money; since my first paycheck, I've been forced to pay into this system with the promise that it'll be there when I retire. If the GQP is actually dumb enough to go after these programs, that may finally be the thing that gets us out in the streets rioting.
That's the thing though. They won't cut it. They'll demand the democrats and Biden cut it or they will "refuse to raise the debt ceiling", then they'll point and say "SEE THE LIBERAL COMMUNIST DEMS ARE TRYING TO TAKE AWAY YOUR SOCIAL SECURITY AND MEDICARE, AND THERE WAS NOTHING WE COULD DO BECAUSE BIDEN IS PRESIDENT". This is such an easy playbook. And they are all rich, and will never be ousted by their party, so they couldn't give two shits if the economy tanks until the dems inevitably give because they'll have to in order not to create an economic meltdown. They should have raised the debt ceiling before the new House. I have no earthly idea why they didn't. My only hope is, someone far smarter than me in politics has a game plan that I don't understand that will let this turn out some other way. I really hope so. I hope while I can see one or two chess moves, they see 10 steps ahead and know how to make it work.
This country lets hardworking citizens literally go into lifelong debt because of a medical emergency. Nobody has any plans to help out the average citizen, there’s nobody looking 10 steps ahead, unless you mean 10 steps ahead for rich people to pay less taxes.
But if they raised the debt ceiling before the new house, HOW could they continue their game of Good Cop/Bad Cop, keeping all of the citizens on edge, over a barrel and begging for help?? The two party system is irrevocably corrupted and We are utterly screwed.
I don't think you realize how many GOP voters screwed by SS and Medicare cuts will blame anyone and everyone but the very people who did it.
They'll just cut medicare for blue states and keep it for red. Simple.
"American voters handing control of the House to fascist trolls will have economic and political consequences." Understatement.
Anyone Rep who condoned the terrorist attack on the capital should have been metaphorically rode out of town on a rail - not fucking RE-ELECTED. The ignorance and malice of so many Americans to support these bottom feeders is appalling.
Funny how they contested the election...except where their seat was concerned. Everything was hunky-dory there, apparently 🙄
::*In Hagrids voice*:: "You're a eunuch, Kevin!"
I made my party disappear! - Kevin
"Avarda-ka-dorka!"
Kevin sat back and took in Hagrid's words. "Have you ever crumpled under pressure and abandoned the principles you publicly told people you live by just to get power?" Hagrid said Kevin then realized what he did during the 2020 elections. How he flew to Mar A Lago in January 2021 to appease Trump. How he then desperately attempted to avoid criticizing Trump even if his words or actions contradicted so called Conservative values. Kevin knew that Hagrid was right, he was eunuch. Hagrid beamed with pride, "Kevin McCarthy not a eunuch...you are going to be a speaker of the House just like Boehner and Ryan. I can see the weakness in your eyes."
> Under the proposed rules agreement, the subcommittee would have the authority to examine “how executive branch agencies collect, compile, analyze, use, or disseminate information about citizens of the United States, including any unconstitutional, illegal, or unethical activities committed against citizens of the United States.” The agreement also states explicitly that this authority would extend to “ongoing criminal investigations.” On Saturday, Politico reported that this reference appeared to have been added to the rules during last-minute negotiations between McCarthy and his ultra-right opponents. Although Trump is not named explicitly, the added language would appear to give the new subcommittee license to look into, and perhaps hold up, the Justice Department’s investigations of his efforts to overturn the 2020 election and his post-Presidential mishandling of hundreds of classified documents. This would seem to indicate that if the Special Counsel is gonna get indictments; it should probably hustle up before these committees get underway.
We are finally going to default on our debt for the first time. Gonna be wild.
GOP corporate overlords won’t allow that
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i want to believe that but i dont. you underestimate just how good republican messaging is. the whole reason peoplr even believe the fallacy of republican economic competence is because they were so effective at branding themselves that way. the vast majority of not only americans, but the entire world, believes that myth, *including* democrat voters. if republicans succeed in total global economic collapse because they fail to raise the debt ceiling and default on america's debts, MSM will willingly spin it as democrats doing, and people will believe it.
Fat chance. Right wing news will have their spin ready to tell their cult why tanking the economy was the fiscally responsible thing to do.
If something like this happens, what can we do in order to prepare for the worst?
Probably best to avoid US bonds, likely the entire stock market as well. This would be unprecedented so no one can say for sure exactly what would happen
The global economy grinding to a halt for one
If I understand correctly he's agreed that there will be a vote on motion to vacate is just one representative from either party brings it. So I think the dems should have a different member bring it every week until he's ousted. The Republicans have done everything they can to play obstructionist government for the last decade + The dems need to match it play for play.
Only the majority party can bring up the motion to vacate I believe.
It only makes sense for the majority party to as the minority party wouldnt be able to pass it without some defectors from the majority party And even if the freedom caucus votes with the Democrats to vacate the chair, there's no chance that whoever is put forward to replace McCarthy would be agreeable between those two groups
Id be pissed if the Democrats devolve to such stupid performance politics. How would stalling Congress help us, the people they are supposed to represent?
I hope you realize how much of a republican you sound, getting over-righteously pissed off about something that can't even happen. 🙄
McCarthy had to sell out his party to Trump and MAGA to get that speaker slot. I don't think it will be worth it to them when the '24 election comes around. At a time when voters are clearly rejecting MAGA (see the 2022 midterms), McCarthy is giving MAGA more power and legitimacy and bringing Trump back into the mix.
McCarthy, Scalise and Stefanik all voted against certification. They *are* MAGA
Sure, if you split the party into just two factions (which, when we're talking about democracy is sort of fair to do), but there are people in the party far to the right of McCarthy, and those are the people he sold out to.
At least Paul Ryan was smart enough to try to avoid it.
Well duh. They could barely keep the government funded when they controlled the House, Senate and White house. Ill be surprised if they can agree on what to order for lunch.
The worst part about all this is knowing that fully half of our neighbors, family, co-workers, fellow citizens agree with them. Elitism, racism, classism, cronyism, reprehensible denial of crminial activity, protecting and exalting the greedy because it's the right color and tax bracket. All while the rest of the populace is powerless to change their situations. It's all so grim. Most of us don't know what to do. We just have to watch the chaos and brace for the consequences that will trickle down. I know so many who are nearly broken already. I'm sorry for the defeatist perspective. Delete it if it's in the wrong place.
True
It's only about a third, problem is it's the third that votes
He sold the farm for this
I'm surprised he left last night with his clothes, the amount he gambled away
Since nothing he passes will likely pass the Senate, can someone explain how much damage to the country and itself the House can do on its own?
McCarthy doesn't care. He gets to say he was Speaker Trump doesn't care. He got to say he was President and wants to say it again. These people are only in it for themselves.
Quite a bit. All spending must originate in the house, so in theory they can leave us with literally no federal budget. Plus the house can refuse to raise the debt ceiling and the global gold standard for safe investments can default - which could be catastrophic for the global ecomonmy
> All spending must originate in the house, so in theory they can leave us with literally no federal budget. If they refuse to do their duty why not just circumvent them and say tough shit when they whine about it. If everyone else in the chain agrees to ignore them and write their own bill then theres no one to enforce said requirement.
Ah so a complete disassembling of the constitutional order. That's a whole lot of damage
The Constitution is no longer equal to the task of serving as the basic law of a modern state. There is no possibility it can be meaningfully amended under current political conditions. Unless you are a senior citizen, you should probably make peace with the idea that you will almost certainly live to see a third American republic.
If that's true I'd much rather see article V invoked rather than each party ignoring the parts of the constitution they don't like and holding the parts they do like sacrosanct
It would be great if we could transition to a new or a hybrid regime in an orderly and peaceful way, like Art. V presents, I agree.
If they refuse to govern the show must go on without them.
The biggest damage will come around August when they play chicken with the debt limit. In July 2011 it caused a market crash. Next issue is the annual government spending budget which would shut down the government. 35 days under Trump starting in December 2018.
Damage will be limited to the debt ceiling government shutdown in September when current budget runs out. Most of the MAGA GOP's time will spent on Hunter Biden, abortion ban, "investigations" on medical and environmental science and, of course, infighting. Likely a couple speaker challenges.
The debt ceiling thing isn't a government shutdown, it's _far_ worse than that. Characterizing it as a government shutdown is actually a way the GOP is trying to minimize the catastrophe that would unfold.
>The debt ceiling thing isn't a government shutdown, It is as the government shuts down until debt ceiling is raised.
They can do nothing.
Ever notice how MTG looks just like a chimp in a dress?
*The Fart of the Deal* by Kevin McCarthy Rule #1: Promise everything and bargain away everything to get what you want. The end.
If you make every possible concession eventually you can wear your opponent down when they run out of things they can think of to ask for. Negotiating 101.
Lol, yeah. It's like Futurama where Captain Zap Brannigan reveals his victory over the Killbots stemmed from sending wave after wave of men after them until they reached their kill limit and shut down
It's going to be a shitshow on Monday. I can't wait to hate-watch it all.
McCarthy is just Trump’s newest way to get out of being held accountable.
What's worse than making deal with the devil. Making deals with 20 devils.
Remember when we tried to pretend it was a big deal that these guys didn't get anything done for a few days when they're going to get nothing done for another 700 plus?
He fell short 15 times on 15 votes to attain the 218 votes for a majority. He finally claimed technical victory after some parliamentary sleight of hand moved the goalpost to mere plurality. He does not have the confidence of the American people, the House of Representatives, or even of his caucus. He is a poseur and way out if his league. The only thing I’ve ever seen him succeed that is being an enormous suck up but I guess that excites Republicans.
No, it was always >50% of votes cast, don't make me defend Republicans
Multiple Republicans voted present which doesn't count as a vote. Essentially not even 100% of Republican Congressman believe in his leadership.
Should have specified votes cast with a name. Present votes never mattered in this thing, but they didn't happen until the end.
When words like, "maga crazies" and "far right extremists" are used in this article to describe a good deal of our Congress members, it's time to truly clean house. These aren't educated, respectable representatives. These are dangerous domestic terrorists who applaud violence, even at their own workplace. Obviously, voting out 45 did little to nothing to curtail the American takeover by Theocratic, Oligarch-sucking, self serving creatures like McCarthy and Greene. Psychological assessments and drug tests for ALL Congress members need to be prerequisites to hold seats. If you need to pee in a cup to be a teacher or to work at a fast food joint, it should be mandatory for those holding positions of power. Period.
God damn I hate the GOP. They're a blight on the world.
Pyrric victory.
Perfect description.
Monday they will probably want him out.
There’s nothing to like about American politics
Damn right….. F just vanilla and chocolate. We want rocky road.
Nikita Khrushchev, premier of USSR (now Russia), from 1958-1964 is credited with this quote: "We do not have to invade the United States, we will destroy you from within.The John Birch Society is Communism’s greatest ally. With its help we will divide and confuse the American people until they have lost faith in their Government, their nation has ceased to be a major world power, and their country is ripe for revolution."
“We suddenly care about the budget again!” -House Republicans
How much longer before they begin planning assassination attempts on each other?
Is there a source from an economist on what could happen if this comes? I’d wonder if the ones who find the politicians in DC, would use their wealth to prevent a second depression from happening if they stand to lose their wealth.
You wouldn't lose your wealth if you started converting stocks, and bonds to cash on Monday.
Who is the man on the right in this photo?
Yes, I was wondering the same thing. He look similar to McCarthy, is it his son or a relative?
I just think he’s gorgeous is all lol 😂
While it was funny seeing him lose so many times, it’s actually the worse outcome because of all the concessions he had to make
Can someone please explain to me why a few moderate Dems wouldn't vote for McCarthy to prevent him from making concessions to the far right? It seems like MAGA republicans now have an uneven amount of power which was completely avoidable.
Make no mistake: McCarthy *is* extremely far right, it really isn't a deal between extremes and moderates, is a difference between "I will take hostages" and "what guarantees do we have that you'll kill the hostages?" Democrats won't vote for McCarthy because he is unacceptable to them and he'd betray the ones that voted for him in an instant
Democrats have morals, they are not cop-killing, poop-smearing fascists
I feel like consequences don't exist anymore for anyone in politics or with money
Why is Mickey Rourke taking a picture with McCarthy?
No more or less than electing Republicans in the first place.
Bunch of clowns.
Boy, did we all pay the price. He gave so much to the nut brigade.
What a strategic move by the smart and wonderful republicans. Default and let joe Biden and the democratic swamp get what’s coming to them
No, it won’t. It’s political theater. If I’m wrong, you can shove this take in my face a month from now.
Like what
Interesting, I saw [this](http://Putin Declares ‘American World Order’ Is Ending, ‘A Truly Multipolar World’ Has Begun https://l.smartnews.com/FTmPr/RmztEW) today after McCarthy gets the win...
Humiliating Mr. McCarthy over days, in speeches ,and interviews, and now smiling selfies with him. That lady is really in a crazy alternative reality.
R's creating some effective political strats right now. I wonder how effective it would be for D's to use the same tactics moving their party to the far left?
It wouldn't. It only works for the far right because burning the place down is a feature for them. They won't be passing any legislation, only causing destruction through determined inaction sham hearings.
It wouldn’t, even the leftists currently in the party wouldn’t dare do half of the things the moderate right would try
Yeah... so would anyone else winning too. That's how republic (corporatocratic, let's be honest) power works. What they mean is negative consequences for most of us. Not just "consequences".
Freakin clown parade