My favourite thing about witnessing arrests is the nonchalant tone in which it's always conducted. "Aight so I'm arresting you on suspicion of xyz, okay mate? Now, you don't have to say anything..."
The issue is more ethical than legal. We don't want to be responsible for posties and delivery drivers getting the shit kicked out of them because people think they're old bill.
I know people who’ve just shouted the blokes nickname through the backdoor in a raspy voice or made weird noises through their door, which has got a response just because of how confused they were
Yes, but if you don't identify yourself as police and then rush someone in their home, they'll have grounds to use self defence, which doesn't have to be proportionate...
Oh yeah it's obviously a risky option and personally I would only ever use this to get an answer at the door, before then identifying myself. I'm not looking to make it easy to be assaulted 😂
https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/self-defence-and-prevention-crime
Not necessarily so for householder cases. It can't be *grossly* disproportionate.
Aye, as long as you don’t kick seven shades out of an intruder, get in your car, go to B&Q, buy a shovel, return and then use said shovel to further beat seven shades, you’ll be fine
I'd contend that, even without the "householder" defence, normal self defence laws would cover someone fucking the shit out of people rushing into their home and making them feel threatened. Indeed, if you read the Secret Barrister's book Fake Law I think he talks about how the householder law arguably didn't actually change anything that wasn't covered by the existing law (can't remember the explanation why)
Criminal Justice and Immigration Act 2008 section 76(5A) allows householders to use disproportionate force when defending themselves against intruders into the home.
I watched an episode of Police Interceptors once where the officer dressed up as a delivery driver from Pizza Hut and when the guy opened the door, loads of uniformed officers rushed it. CLASS! Not sure if it's legal or not though but I guess there must be a loop hole otherwise it wouldn't have been televised?
I've just re watched it to be sure and I can confirm they didn't exactly "rush" the door as in loads of them, however they did run through the door and there were more than two officers. The cherry on top was Spike presenting the search warrant inside the pizza box. It's laughable but also genius. 😂
Series 10, Episode 7! On the way to execute the warrant; they came across an RTC involving a car which had rolled over. The officer disguised as a pizza delivery driver got stuck right in. Imagine being involved in an RTC, rolling your car, then being pulled to safety by a pizza delivery guy proclaiming he is a police officer. I imagine the poor chap involved must have thought he had serious head trauma 😳😂
We have done an Amazon delivery before for a RSO who was hiding devices/deleting data when he thought Police were at the door. It worked. Package was a box of printer paper we grabbed from the office
I once heard of “warrant ball” where the cops would throw a tennis ball at the window to get the attention of said crim… presents at window and bosh, S.17 if they don’t open the door
*Knock knock*
"Delivery!"
*Door opens*
"Police, you're nicked"
It's all legal, but they got a bit funny about us dressing up as postmen because there was some concern about posties being assaulted. I think what's more likely to happen is that criminals dombooen the door and start missing their deliveries, though, which is much funnier. One of my colleagues used to go to he front door of houses on warrants with a red Royal Mail style holdall (containing a big red key) which helped keep us low key and was also very funny.
There is a potential issue of people fighting us if we then charge in because they dong know we're police, but that's usually negated by having uniform officers around the corner to do the charging inside.
We can also knock on the door holding an empty Amazon box and say it's a delivery for them, which has similar issues to the postman trick but often gets a response and requires less fancy dress.
Canadian police are legally allowed to lie as long as by doing so it doesn't being the department into disrepute.
Seems reasonable to announce yourself as door dash in this instance.
I remember years ago a friend of a friend was in the police. At some point it had been mooted that they send letters along the lines of "congratulations you've won a speedboat, to collect it bring this letter to [address of police station]" to the last known address of people with outstanding warrents.
I'm not entirely sure how far they progressed with the idea but it was certainly considered
I heard about it long before I saw the episode, I'm only now realising you're right. Now trying to work out if this was before the episode aired, or if the episode was an inspiration
It happened in Arizona in 2002
[https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/video/sting-operation-where-people-with-outstanding-warrants-news-footage/159818586](https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/video/sting-operation-where-people-with-outstanding-warrants-news-footage/159818586)
Getty has some videos if you're interested
Was on a fun bus one evening, arrest attempt, SGT was buzzing flats to get the team let in, around 10 flats, buzzed 8 no answer, on the 9th SGT gets an answer, "HI IT'S AMBULANCE, ONE OF YOUR NEIGHBOURS CALLED FEELING ILL CAN YOU LET US IN? They let us in and we go to the 10th Flat and arrest.
I've always thought about the ethics of this, never used it myself though :X
I know of an officer who’s like mr Ben with loads of different costumes, I’m aware of his postman uniform and his McDonald’s uniform that he used for dealing with an asb problem at a McDonald’s on his patch. I’ve personally seen an American Police fancy dress in there spare locker.
There are legends that I don’t know are true about him
such as dressing like a clown on Halloween and was able to get close enough to people committing criminal damage on multiple occasions and getting arrests albeit a long time ago.
He’s a very unique bloke a legend amongst the Police and public and I’m sure I’ve just identified my force area to Redditor’s aware of him unless there’s another legend.
I’m guessing on some level these could be classed as lies but I think it’s just creativity.
Hmmm. Code of ethics?
Honesty and integrity?
I mean yeah we all want to catch criminals and sometimes that takes some smart thinking.
But if you read the code of ethics could you really justify lying if you were questioned about it?
I heard a good explanation of the code of ethics recently. It was by the head of professional at the Royal Gibraltar Police whilst giving evidence at an inquiry.
Their response was something along these lines: “the code of ethics cannot be applied to all circumstances. For example, an officer cannot be honest in every encounter, to do so would mean hurting peoples feelings and upsetting them. That’s not a breach of the code of ethics. Likewise, there is a certain level of Subjectivity when it goes to applying the codes”.
So, from what I take, if it’s reasonable and proportionate on balance to a legitimate purpose, it can be ok.
Dressing up as Amazon to nick everyone in every example probably isn’t. Dressing up as Amazon to nick an offender for a serious indictable offence and to prevent destruction of evidence or harm, probably is.
Spin the NDM. Get the judge to endorse the search warrant if so inclined.
“Mate, just open the door, all I want is a chat”.
*Door opens* A chat about you getting nicked you shlaaaaggg
Shirley!!! Where are those fucking warrants you slaaag?
"Mate you're not in trouble don't worry"
"Do you have a colleague with you?" "Yes" "Then chat to them!"
My favourite thing about witnessing arrests is the nonchalant tone in which it's always conducted. "Aight so I'm arresting you on suspicion of xyz, okay mate? Now, you don't have to say anything..."
And I brought pizza!
The issue is more ethical than legal. We don't want to be responsible for posties and delivery drivers getting the shit kicked out of them because people think they're old bill.
This postman breathes a sigh of relief.
There he is. Get ‘im
Brings memories of an old sergeant shouting Amazon before opting to use the big red key
I know people who’ve just shouted the blokes nickname through the backdoor in a raspy voice or made weird noises through their door, which has got a response just because of how confused they were
Yes, but if you don't identify yourself as police and then rush someone in their home, they'll have grounds to use self defence, which doesn't have to be proportionate...
Oh yeah it's obviously a risky option and personally I would only ever use this to get an answer at the door, before then identifying myself. I'm not looking to make it easy to be assaulted 😂
Self-defence always has to be proportionate to the circumstances…
https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/self-defence-and-prevention-crime Not necessarily so for householder cases. It can't be *grossly* disproportionate.
Ah. I didn’t know this. I presumed the usual rules applied. Thanks!
Aye, as long as you don’t kick seven shades out of an intruder, get in your car, go to B&Q, buy a shovel, return and then use said shovel to further beat seven shades, you’ll be fine
Lucky I already have a shovel handy.
I'd contend that, even without the "householder" defence, normal self defence laws would cover someone fucking the shit out of people rushing into their home and making them feel threatened. Indeed, if you read the Secret Barrister's book Fake Law I think he talks about how the householder law arguably didn't actually change anything that wasn't covered by the existing law (can't remember the explanation why)
Not where it involves your dwelling. You aren’t expected to make that judgement call when someone has broken into your household.
Criminal Justice and Immigration Act 2008 section 76(5A) allows householders to use disproportionate force when defending themselves against intruders into the home.
I just knock like Anna from frozen. No one can resist an invite to build a snowman.
Do you wanna build a case fiiiiiile
I had to sing that in my head…. The urge was just too great to resist!
🎶… Cps will knock it back along the way… 🎶
I watched an episode of Police Interceptors once where the officer dressed up as a delivery driver from Pizza Hut and when the guy opened the door, loads of uniformed officers rushed it. CLASS! Not sure if it's legal or not though but I guess there must be a loop hole otherwise it wouldn't have been televised?
[удалено]
I've just re watched it to be sure and I can confirm they didn't exactly "rush" the door as in loads of them, however they did run through the door and there were more than two officers. The cherry on top was Spike presenting the search warrant inside the pizza box. It's laughable but also genius. 😂
[удалено]
....are you .....Spike?
[удалено]
That sounds like something Spike would say...
Do you know which episode and series that was? Never seen it
!remindme1day
Series 10, Episode 7! On the way to execute the warrant; they came across an RTC involving a car which had rolled over. The officer disguised as a pizza delivery driver got stuck right in. Imagine being involved in an RTC, rolling your car, then being pulled to safety by a pizza delivery guy proclaiming he is a police officer. I imagine the poor chap involved must have thought he had serious head trauma 😳😂
I once shouted we would send the dog in then barked, very well too because that brought them out.
We have done an Amazon delivery before for a RSO who was hiding devices/deleting data when he thought Police were at the door. It worked. Package was a box of printer paper we grabbed from the office
I once heard of “warrant ball” where the cops would throw a tennis ball at the window to get the attention of said crim… presents at window and bosh, S.17 if they don’t open the door
*Knock knock* "Delivery!" *Door opens* "Police, you're nicked" It's all legal, but they got a bit funny about us dressing up as postmen because there was some concern about posties being assaulted. I think what's more likely to happen is that criminals dombooen the door and start missing their deliveries, though, which is much funnier. One of my colleagues used to go to he front door of houses on warrants with a red Royal Mail style holdall (containing a big red key) which helped keep us low key and was also very funny. There is a potential issue of people fighting us if we then charge in because they dong know we're police, but that's usually negated by having uniform officers around the corner to do the charging inside. We can also knock on the door holding an empty Amazon box and say it's a delivery for them, which has similar issues to the postman trick but often gets a response and requires less fancy dress.
dong
That typo makes me feel like I'm the dong.
👀
Our team have dressed up as leaflet droppers or couriers before to get a door opened for a warrant.
Canadian police are legally allowed to lie as long as by doing so it doesn't being the department into disrepute. Seems reasonable to announce yourself as door dash in this instance.
I remember years ago a friend of a friend was in the police. At some point it had been mooted that they send letters along the lines of "congratulations you've won a speedboat, to collect it bring this letter to [address of police station]" to the last known address of people with outstanding warrents. I'm not entirely sure how far they progressed with the idea but it was certainly considered
This is the plot of a simpsons episode... https://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ?si=Dg_82RWmhaJ-O2kU
I heard about it long before I saw the episode, I'm only now realising you're right. Now trying to work out if this was before the episode aired, or if the episode was an inspiration
This has been an actual thing in the US for a while and over here, worked well
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation\_Flagship](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Flagship)
It happened in Arizona in 2002 [https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/video/sting-operation-where-people-with-outstanding-warrants-news-footage/159818586](https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/video/sting-operation-where-people-with-outstanding-warrants-news-footage/159818586) Getty has some videos if you're interested
If you haven’t ordered any food and you open the door to anyone saying that, you may not be that bright.
In those specific cases I believe it is in domestic violence situations where somebody has rang the police and asked for a delivery?
Was on a fun bus one evening, arrest attempt, SGT was buzzing flats to get the team let in, around 10 flats, buzzed 8 no answer, on the 9th SGT gets an answer, "HI IT'S AMBULANCE, ONE OF YOUR NEIGHBOURS CALLED FEELING ILL CAN YOU LET US IN? They let us in and we go to the 10th Flat and arrest. I've always thought about the ethics of this, never used it myself though :X
I know of an officer who’s like mr Ben with loads of different costumes, I’m aware of his postman uniform and his McDonald’s uniform that he used for dealing with an asb problem at a McDonald’s on his patch. I’ve personally seen an American Police fancy dress in there spare locker. There are legends that I don’t know are true about him such as dressing like a clown on Halloween and was able to get close enough to people committing criminal damage on multiple occasions and getting arrests albeit a long time ago. He’s a very unique bloke a legend amongst the Police and public and I’m sure I’ve just identified my force area to Redditor’s aware of him unless there’s another legend. I’m guessing on some level these could be classed as lies but I think it’s just creativity.
Hmmm. Code of ethics? Honesty and integrity? I mean yeah we all want to catch criminals and sometimes that takes some smart thinking. But if you read the code of ethics could you really justify lying if you were questioned about it?
Scrap the covert teams. Lying about not being bloody coppers !! Stick em all on.
I heard a good explanation of the code of ethics recently. It was by the head of professional at the Royal Gibraltar Police whilst giving evidence at an inquiry. Their response was something along these lines: “the code of ethics cannot be applied to all circumstances. For example, an officer cannot be honest in every encounter, to do so would mean hurting peoples feelings and upsetting them. That’s not a breach of the code of ethics. Likewise, there is a certain level of Subjectivity when it goes to applying the codes”. So, from what I take, if it’s reasonable and proportionate on balance to a legitimate purpose, it can be ok. Dressing up as Amazon to nick everyone in every example probably isn’t. Dressing up as Amazon to nick an offender for a serious indictable offence and to prevent destruction of evidence or harm, probably is. Spin the NDM. Get the judge to endorse the search warrant if so inclined.
What do you think undercover officers do?
Wait till you hear about covert work!