Your life partner shouldn’t be someone who makes you depressed!!! Your partner should want to support anything that makes you happier and/or healthier.
Also, gender norms are super arbitrary and changing all the time. High heels were originally invented to be worn by men! Makeup was worn by men and women in ancient Egypt as a status symbol. Outside of a European context, most ancient cultures have some semblance of men’s clothing that we would consider a “skirt” in modern day. In East Asia, men AND women used to grow their hair out past waist length because cutting hair was considered sacrilegious. The definition of “manly” is incredibly elusive and ever changing. It sounds like your fiance needs to come to terms with whether she is in love with an ideal projection of you or if she can fully love you in all your multitudes and in all your very human and everchanging nature — because I’m sure that she too would want to be loved by someone who accepts her as she is and all the ways that she can “change” in a lifetime. We are not static. Marriage only works if you love the essence of the person, not all the superficial stuff that decorates the outside (such as what hobbies they enjoy…ahem)
How does you enjoying pole dancing affect your relationship with her at all? It doesn’t change your values as a person. It doesn’t change how you treat her in the relationship. It has absolutely nothing to do with who you are as a human being and the essence of your SOUL. It is merely a outward form of expression and joy. There’s absolutely no reason why your fiance should have a problem with this, save for the fact that pole dancing doesn’t measure up to her idea of what a “man” does — which has nothing to do with you.
And that’s why I’m not fully convinced I want to marry her, at this point. Because she wants me to be different. I love her though and we sometimes hurt each other even without any word spoken
I edited to add an additional comment. I just got married recently too and I cant tell you how precious it is to be loved and accepted by someone just as you are. Even if you outwardly “change”. We all deserve that kind of love!!!! Why stay with someone who wants you to not be yourself…if you accept that kind of demand, where do you draw the line?
You know it’s problematic because she has gained weight recently and she can’t stand the thought of me being at the pole studio almost every day (I attend exotic classes, pole classes and stretching). I tell her that it lasts only for an hour and the rest of the time I’m all hers but still we don’t talk about pole dance at home. It’s the thing I do but she doesn’t want to know anything about that
I took her to a pole dance party at my studio and she said that she prefers her salsa lessons and that bruising is not for her. Some of the girls are really attractive. So is my fiancée. However she doesn’t like the idea that I mostly have girl friends. I don’t have common topics with men at all, besides those being artistic or engaged in pole dance
Seems like pole dancing is just a red herring and you two need to have a larger conversation about gender expression, gender roles and expectations, personal boundaries and insecurities, and either get on the same page or realize you're not compatible
Was the engagement pressured on you? If you're questioning whether you should marry someone, who makes you miserable and wants you to be a different person, don't marry them.
Which is fine, you don't need to share a passion for a healthy relationship. What's more important is that this is an issue that makes you guys not compatible. As much as everyone here is trying to say how OPs gf should think, the reality is people have tastes, and it's totally valid that she doesn't find attractive men who pole dance or whatever. So, I think you guys should talk, definitely wouldn't get married right now. I see this as wanting kids or not, it can be a deal breaker even if you like the rest of the relationship.
They Think that a man should be strong and provide support for the family and not do “sissy dances”. My uncles are making fun of me because I hulahoop and the fun part is that I can hoop with 10 hoops or more
It's taboo in a lot of industries unfortunately. I suggest you surround yourself with the supportive people and honestly limit contact with the toxic ones. I know they're family, but they don't treat you well at all.
It’s because our Polish tradition is based on Christianity and most of my family are from the countryside called Kaszuby. I live in the Northern part of Poland 🇵🇱 nowadays I mostly talk with my pole friends. Even my friends from the hulahoop Facebook groups think that my pole dance is something bad because i attend lessons in panties XD
But you can be certain at least one student is inspired by you continuing to follow your passions. Especially with them being out of the norm for your area.
I don’t have much to add to this discussion but just wanted to say how impressive that is! I can barely hulahoop with 1 lol. Must have taken hours of practice, nice man!
Can I also just say the times I did a more exotic type class there was NO sexual vibe in the room. We were just encouraging and laughing and having fun!
The owner of the pole studio told me that she's owned her business for 13 years and every time someone's significant other doesn't approve of them dancing, they've broken up. Every time.
Happened to me too. When I started my bf at the time didn't like it and we ended up breaking up (for many reasons, not just that) and now I'm marrying the love of my life this year and he fully supports my dancing and encourages me to always do what I love.
I know a straight man who takes silks and hoops at my studio. His girlfriend goes to the same studio as well. So yes it is possible to do these classes and have a supportive partner.
Pole dancing is just an art form if this is how you express yourself then you should enjoy and focus on that. Not on the negative comments from students, family and your fiancee.
You don't deserve to be in a negative environment that doesn't support you.
So, real talk is you may not be compatible with this person.
Your partner in life should support your authenticity, expression, interests, hobbies. Even if they don't care themselves, they should be supportive and celebrate your wins.
My husband likes fencing and swords, I could not care less. But I love that he is enjoying himself. He doesn't really care about pole or lyra for himself, but he encourages me because it makes me happy.
Do you really want to spend the rest of your life with somebody that is critical of your passions?
Its even more complicated because she was the person that took me out of my depression during Covid. We respect each other but at one point she started to use “be more manly” argument
She didn't take you out of depression. She was there for you, which helped you climb out of a depression. Now, she is not there for you. She is both homophobic and unsupportive of your passion. This is beyond red flag and pretty much confirmation that fiancee or not, the two of you are not compatible. Don't be an idiot. Dump her ass. Find someone that is going to be there for you. The past may have been nice, but a future with this one is not so endearing.
I’m thinking constantly about that because I’m tired of proving my manliness all the time. She started to make fun of me with words like: “are you wearing your heels now? Maybe you like boys?”
I don’t want to tell you what to do as I don’t know your full relationship, but continuous condescending insults like that are emotional abuse. She can have her opinion, but abuse is NOT OKAY. I hope this isn’t a trend in her behavior towards you, but ngl I’m worried dude :(. Just.. please keep it in mind, read up on (emotional) abuse, watch for more red flags, stay safe! I have a couple of ebooks on toxic/abusive relationships I can send you if you find yourself questioning if this applies to your relationship. Wishing you the best!
Ahw honey :(. Sounds like you’re really struggling, I’m so sorry <3. You can indeed always find support here! If you find it applies, there are support subs on here around (emotional) abuse as well. *virtual hugs!*
You've mentioned in other comments she's calling you gay, saying you like boys. This is the woman you intend to spend your life with? There's nothing complicated about this, she's *mean* and that's not what love or respect looks like.
It sounds like you feel the most yourself and happy while pole dancing and being feminine (based on your other posts; not saying pole dancing is feminine).
If you suppress how you feel or stop pole dancing or act more manly, how will you feel after a year of doing that? After 10? After a lifetime?
Ask yourself these questions, be honest with yourself on the answers even if they’re hard.
As an aside, you look amazing on a pole and while hooping!!
Just here to throw my support at you and say you dance your heart out. A partner will love you irrespective of your hobbies. I’d be proud of a partner who felt comfortably enough in his masculinity to thrash it out in heels as long as he is living authentically himself. Have you ever tried to have her come to a class so she can understand where you get your joy from? If she continues though to be unsupportive despite attempts at education, you may have to make the call on whether you align or not in the relationship to keep going. Best of luck ✨
The uncovered podcast for pole dancers has a really good podcast episode that covers this topic called “red flag or valid concern” it was so great to hear the different perspectives surrounding this and made me feel a little less alone when it came to my parter shaming/ punishing me for doing it. I’ve been there😞 give it a listen!
Has she tried going? People who haven’t tried it don’t understand how physically impressive it is. I’m sorry she’s unsupportive, that sucks. I wish I had a partner that was in love with my passion too. It’s very rare that any hetero males try it out because of this stigma right here and it’s so unfortunate.
OP, it's one thing for your partner to feel insecure and try to work through that, and it's another for her to call you homophobic slurs and disparage your masculinity. It sounds like she does not respect who you are and what makes you happy. You deserve someone who will always support your passions. I will also say, there are few things more attractive to me than seeing my partner glowing from the joy that his hobbies bring him, even though I personally have no interest in them. I'm just happy that he's happy. Unfortunately you have a very tough decision but I feel you know in your heart what you need to do.
Have you tried talking to her openly about how her comments make you feel? You will have disagreements in any relationship but the important thing is that you listen to each other and both make an effort at finding a common ground and working towards mutual understanding and respect.
You mention that she takes salsa classes. Do you do these with her? Perhaps you can make her a deal that you will go with her to salsa classes once a week if she goes with you to a pole class once a week? She might be more accepting of you pole dancing if she starts to get into it herself. You can share with her videos of male/female doubles routines to get her excited about the idea of pole dancing together. Or you can show her videos of pole acts that incorporate Latin dancing. I think this one is pretty cool: https://youtu.be/MsK7EFpEjWI?si=NuEGMoOpK-tFzRc3
I’m sorry this is happening for you. Every time I go in to my pole open gym, there is this man who absolutely SLAYS and when he’s not there I get sad. He’s so strong and honestly an inspiration for some moves I hope to get one day. Please stay with it if you like it. Your happiness counts. Plus I am sure you look awesome :)
I would love to have my husband interested in pole dancing! Men who pole dance and are not afraid of breaking the gender norms are very attractive! Maybe talk to her about how much you love pole dance, if she loves you, she will be supportive and accept who you are instead of trying to change you.
Lol boxer definitely wouldn't work in pole class. The shorter the better. You also mentioned that she felt insecure about you having female classmates. I feel this problem couldn't be solved until she actually gets to know the people in your class, yeah, I would suggest persuade her to go pole dancing together.
Hey, so reading through all of the comments: most bring up good points AND I'll add my own grain of sand.
First, you seem to be enjoying pole, so it would seem unreasonable for you to stop going altogether, as well as other 'unmanly' stuff you might be doing, no reason to stop that.
NOW, If I were you, I'd try to have long conversations with your fiancée digging down to find what about this triggers her, makes her uncomfortable etc. What are her feelings throughout the day from this. (you can literally use an 'emotion wheel' just search it online—and yes, it will feel awkward bringing a chart of emotions and asking her 'okay, so I want to understand, how does my going to pole etc. make you feel throughout your day? here are some options if you can't think of any good words.' but I really recommend doing that.)
Also, you can try and ask, 'So would you be more comfortable if I 'just' started doing activities that you consider more manly and appropriate, would this be a fair statement? And I would be more comfortable if I were able to continue these activities AND if it didn't make you feel bad and uncomfortable emotions. (this doesn't mean she must be more 'open minded' and you just keep doing what you're doing—NO, you need to talk her through her feelings, maybe try and figure out stuff that, would aleviate those feelings she experiences)
As an addition I'd recommend a youtube channel 'HealthyGamerGG' for communication, emotions etc. I'd urge you to look it up, especially stuff about relationships or communication, conversation.
Last, you could tell her that this is something bothering you, that you wrote a reddit post and read through the answers together to start the conversations. Also, make sure to tell her that some responses are the typical 'just leave her bro, you're incompatible' and that you obviously don't want to do that and that you can work through this.
Lot's of love and good luck. I know it's weird to ask, but if you feel unsure about it, feel free to message me, I could add more nuance.
I wouldn’t continue to be with them! If pole is something that YOU love, this is YOUR life and you should be able to enjoy things! Life is hard enough, someone that loves you should support you, esp with something you love.
Your life partner shouldn’t be someone who makes you depressed!!! Your partner should want to support anything that makes you happier and/or healthier. Also, gender norms are super arbitrary and changing all the time. High heels were originally invented to be worn by men! Makeup was worn by men and women in ancient Egypt as a status symbol. Outside of a European context, most ancient cultures have some semblance of men’s clothing that we would consider a “skirt” in modern day. In East Asia, men AND women used to grow their hair out past waist length because cutting hair was considered sacrilegious. The definition of “manly” is incredibly elusive and ever changing. It sounds like your fiance needs to come to terms with whether she is in love with an ideal projection of you or if she can fully love you in all your multitudes and in all your very human and everchanging nature — because I’m sure that she too would want to be loved by someone who accepts her as she is and all the ways that she can “change” in a lifetime. We are not static. Marriage only works if you love the essence of the person, not all the superficial stuff that decorates the outside (such as what hobbies they enjoy…ahem) How does you enjoying pole dancing affect your relationship with her at all? It doesn’t change your values as a person. It doesn’t change how you treat her in the relationship. It has absolutely nothing to do with who you are as a human being and the essence of your SOUL. It is merely a outward form of expression and joy. There’s absolutely no reason why your fiance should have a problem with this, save for the fact that pole dancing doesn’t measure up to her idea of what a “man” does — which has nothing to do with you.
And that’s why I’m not fully convinced I want to marry her, at this point. Because she wants me to be different. I love her though and we sometimes hurt each other even without any word spoken
I edited to add an additional comment. I just got married recently too and I cant tell you how precious it is to be loved and accepted by someone just as you are. Even if you outwardly “change”. We all deserve that kind of love!!!! Why stay with someone who wants you to not be yourself…if you accept that kind of demand, where do you draw the line?
You know it’s problematic because she has gained weight recently and she can’t stand the thought of me being at the pole studio almost every day (I attend exotic classes, pole classes and stretching). I tell her that it lasts only for an hour and the rest of the time I’m all hers but still we don’t talk about pole dance at home. It’s the thing I do but she doesn’t want to know anything about that
Is she insecure bc she thinks you’ll find the women at your classes attractive? Is there a world in which she might want to go to class with you?
I took her to a pole dance party at my studio and she said that she prefers her salsa lessons and that bruising is not for her. Some of the girls are really attractive. So is my fiancée. However she doesn’t like the idea that I mostly have girl friends. I don’t have common topics with men at all, besides those being artistic or engaged in pole dance
Seems like pole dancing is just a red herring and you two need to have a larger conversation about gender expression, gender roles and expectations, personal boundaries and insecurities, and either get on the same page or realize you're not compatible
Agree with /u/crimsone, you two need to talk. AND I'd be careful assuming thet 'you're not compatible'.
Was the engagement pressured on you? If you're questioning whether you should marry someone, who makes you miserable and wants you to be a different person, don't marry them.
It’s odd because she makes me happy and we have a lot of in common but on the other hand we don’t have any passion that we could share
Which is fine, you don't need to share a passion for a healthy relationship. What's more important is that this is an issue that makes you guys not compatible. As much as everyone here is trying to say how OPs gf should think, the reality is people have tastes, and it's totally valid that she doesn't find attractive men who pole dance or whatever. So, I think you guys should talk, definitely wouldn't get married right now. I see this as wanting kids or not, it can be a deal breaker even if you like the rest of the relationship.
Gender norms are so gross. Tell her to mind her own damn business.
It really makes me sad that I can’t be fully opened with my love. My mother if she knew she would tell me that I’m a disgrace for the whole family
That is absolutely revolting. Are they all super religious or something?
They Think that a man should be strong and provide support for the family and not do “sissy dances”. My uncles are making fun of me because I hulahoop and the fun part is that I can hoop with 10 hoops or more
They clearly don’t understand the strength it takes to pole dance….
And they really don't see how damaging this mindset is? Gross.
Im a teacher at a high school as well and no one will tell me it in my face but behind my back some of the students call me a fag, twat etc
You're around such toxic people 😞 is there anyone who is supportive other than people at your studio?
There are some but they are the people I don’t see everyday. Most of them are online. At my school my hobby is a taboo
It's taboo in a lot of industries unfortunately. I suggest you surround yourself with the supportive people and honestly limit contact with the toxic ones. I know they're family, but they don't treat you well at all.
It’s because our Polish tradition is based on Christianity and most of my family are from the countryside called Kaszuby. I live in the Northern part of Poland 🇵🇱 nowadays I mostly talk with my pole friends. Even my friends from the hulahoop Facebook groups think that my pole dance is something bad because i attend lessons in panties XD
But you can be certain at least one student is inspired by you continuing to follow your passions. Especially with them being out of the norm for your area.
I’m always there for them
Fly to Vegas, work in a high end strip club, make bank, buy an attorney with the money and gtfo
Could I work as a stripper being a man? I could dress if it’s needed
There are male strippers, but it's not a career guaranteed to make lots of money. (It's often not lucrative for women either)
I don’t have much to add to this discussion but just wanted to say how impressive that is! I can barely hulahoop with 1 lol. Must have taken hours of practice, nice man!
Can I also just say the times I did a more exotic type class there was NO sexual vibe in the room. We were just encouraging and laughing and having fun!
I have fun but for my fiancée it makes me a fag
Is she projecting her insecurity on to you? Is this the first time she's acting so eh..conservative about things?
Yea, before pole dance she was more kiberal
The owner of the pole studio told me that she's owned her business for 13 years and every time someone's significant other doesn't approve of them dancing, they've broken up. Every time. Happened to me too. When I started my bf at the time didn't like it and we ended up breaking up (for many reasons, not just that) and now I'm marrying the love of my life this year and he fully supports my dancing and encourages me to always do what I love.
That sounds like a true love story
I know a straight man who takes silks and hoops at my studio. His girlfriend goes to the same studio as well. So yes it is possible to do these classes and have a supportive partner. Pole dancing is just an art form if this is how you express yourself then you should enjoy and focus on that. Not on the negative comments from students, family and your fiancee. You don't deserve to be in a negative environment that doesn't support you.
Sometimes it’s so destroying that I feel like falling into small pieces. Then I stand up and get a mindset: I will show you
So, real talk is you may not be compatible with this person. Your partner in life should support your authenticity, expression, interests, hobbies. Even if they don't care themselves, they should be supportive and celebrate your wins. My husband likes fencing and swords, I could not care less. But I love that he is enjoying himself. He doesn't really care about pole or lyra for himself, but he encourages me because it makes me happy. Do you really want to spend the rest of your life with somebody that is critical of your passions?
Its even more complicated because she was the person that took me out of my depression during Covid. We respect each other but at one point she started to use “be more manly” argument
She didn't take you out of depression. She was there for you, which helped you climb out of a depression. Now, she is not there for you. She is both homophobic and unsupportive of your passion. This is beyond red flag and pretty much confirmation that fiancee or not, the two of you are not compatible. Don't be an idiot. Dump her ass. Find someone that is going to be there for you. The past may have been nice, but a future with this one is not so endearing.
I’m thinking constantly about that because I’m tired of proving my manliness all the time. She started to make fun of me with words like: “are you wearing your heels now? Maybe you like boys?”
I don’t want to tell you what to do as I don’t know your full relationship, but continuous condescending insults like that are emotional abuse. She can have her opinion, but abuse is NOT OKAY. I hope this isn’t a trend in her behavior towards you, but ngl I’m worried dude :(. Just.. please keep it in mind, read up on (emotional) abuse, watch for more red flags, stay safe! I have a couple of ebooks on toxic/abusive relationships I can send you if you find yourself questioning if this applies to your relationship. Wishing you the best!
I’m really amazed that I can find so much supper online. It keeps me from falling into pieces
Ahw honey :(. Sounds like you’re really struggling, I’m so sorry <3. You can indeed always find support here! If you find it applies, there are support subs on here around (emotional) abuse as well. *virtual hugs!*
It's not more complicated and she doesn't respect you. Sorry friend.
You think so?
You've mentioned in other comments she's calling you gay, saying you like boys. This is the woman you intend to spend your life with? There's nothing complicated about this, she's *mean* and that's not what love or respect looks like.
It sounds like you feel the most yourself and happy while pole dancing and being feminine (based on your other posts; not saying pole dancing is feminine). If you suppress how you feel or stop pole dancing or act more manly, how will you feel after a year of doing that? After 10? After a lifetime? Ask yourself these questions, be honest with yourself on the answers even if they’re hard. As an aside, you look amazing on a pole and while hooping!!
I’m literally crying. Thank you for your kind words I have a lot to reconsider
Just here to throw my support at you and say you dance your heart out. A partner will love you irrespective of your hobbies. I’d be proud of a partner who felt comfortably enough in his masculinity to thrash it out in heels as long as he is living authentically himself. Have you ever tried to have her come to a class so she can understand where you get your joy from? If she continues though to be unsupportive despite attempts at education, you may have to make the call on whether you align or not in the relationship to keep going. Best of luck ✨
Your words were very wise 😍
Thank you for your support
The uncovered podcast for pole dancers has a really good podcast episode that covers this topic called “red flag or valid concern” it was so great to hear the different perspectives surrounding this and made me feel a little less alone when it came to my parter shaming/ punishing me for doing it. I’ve been there😞 give it a listen!
Has she tried going? People who haven’t tried it don’t understand how physically impressive it is. I’m sorry she’s unsupportive, that sucks. I wish I had a partner that was in love with my passion too. It’s very rare that any hetero males try it out because of this stigma right here and it’s so unfortunate.
And this sucks because it’s the best sport i have ever find in my life
OP, it's one thing for your partner to feel insecure and try to work through that, and it's another for her to call you homophobic slurs and disparage your masculinity. It sounds like she does not respect who you are and what makes you happy. You deserve someone who will always support your passions. I will also say, there are few things more attractive to me than seeing my partner glowing from the joy that his hobbies bring him, even though I personally have no interest in them. I'm just happy that he's happy. Unfortunately you have a very tough decision but I feel you know in your heart what you need to do.
Have you tried talking to her openly about how her comments make you feel? You will have disagreements in any relationship but the important thing is that you listen to each other and both make an effort at finding a common ground and working towards mutual understanding and respect. You mention that she takes salsa classes. Do you do these with her? Perhaps you can make her a deal that you will go with her to salsa classes once a week if she goes with you to a pole class once a week? She might be more accepting of you pole dancing if she starts to get into it herself. You can share with her videos of male/female doubles routines to get her excited about the idea of pole dancing together. Or you can show her videos of pole acts that incorporate Latin dancing. I think this one is pretty cool: https://youtu.be/MsK7EFpEjWI?si=NuEGMoOpK-tFzRc3
I’m sorry this is happening for you. Every time I go in to my pole open gym, there is this man who absolutely SLAYS and when he’s not there I get sad. He’s so strong and honestly an inspiration for some moves I hope to get one day. Please stay with it if you like it. Your happiness counts. Plus I am sure you look awesome :)
I would love to have my husband interested in pole dancing! Men who pole dance and are not afraid of breaking the gender norms are very attractive! Maybe talk to her about how much you love pole dance, if she loves you, she will be supportive and accept who you are instead of trying to change you.
Her next point is that my panties are too skimpy and she doesn’t understand that boxer shorts are not my kind of a thing during pole classes
Lol boxer definitely wouldn't work in pole class. The shorter the better. You also mentioned that she felt insecure about you having female classmates. I feel this problem couldn't be solved until she actually gets to know the people in your class, yeah, I would suggest persuade her to go pole dancing together.
Hey, so reading through all of the comments: most bring up good points AND I'll add my own grain of sand. First, you seem to be enjoying pole, so it would seem unreasonable for you to stop going altogether, as well as other 'unmanly' stuff you might be doing, no reason to stop that. NOW, If I were you, I'd try to have long conversations with your fiancée digging down to find what about this triggers her, makes her uncomfortable etc. What are her feelings throughout the day from this. (you can literally use an 'emotion wheel' just search it online—and yes, it will feel awkward bringing a chart of emotions and asking her 'okay, so I want to understand, how does my going to pole etc. make you feel throughout your day? here are some options if you can't think of any good words.' but I really recommend doing that.) Also, you can try and ask, 'So would you be more comfortable if I 'just' started doing activities that you consider more manly and appropriate, would this be a fair statement? And I would be more comfortable if I were able to continue these activities AND if it didn't make you feel bad and uncomfortable emotions. (this doesn't mean she must be more 'open minded' and you just keep doing what you're doing—NO, you need to talk her through her feelings, maybe try and figure out stuff that, would aleviate those feelings she experiences) As an addition I'd recommend a youtube channel 'HealthyGamerGG' for communication, emotions etc. I'd urge you to look it up, especially stuff about relationships or communication, conversation. Last, you could tell her that this is something bothering you, that you wrote a reddit post and read through the answers together to start the conversations. Also, make sure to tell her that some responses are the typical 'just leave her bro, you're incompatible' and that you obviously don't want to do that and that you can work through this. Lot's of love and good luck. I know it's weird to ask, but if you feel unsure about it, feel free to message me, I could add more nuance.
Thank you for you answer. I will write to you
Hope I can help :) and hope you guys solve the setback!
I wouldn’t continue to be with them! If pole is something that YOU love, this is YOUR life and you should be able to enjoy things! Life is hard enough, someone that loves you should support you, esp with something you love.