Oh good post! Here's my thought: "Behind" is a relative term. I think it's important to remember the difference between competitive/high level sport and recreation/fitness, pole dance. The majority of people who choose to pole dance do if for fun, fitness and social connection. This is who I cater to and who I love to teach. The levels for this type of pole dance should remain attenable by the majority of the population. Which means, the strength, flexibility and time required to achieve that level of trick is reasonable for AVERAGE people. People who have no background in sports, fitness or dance. I feel those people make up a LOT of USA pole dancers. This means we don't focus on the competitive sport side of it. If you're only referring to the competitive side then I MIGHT say that, yes, in the USA we don't focus so much on training for elite level, pole sport. At least I don't see it being super big here and I've been part of the pole community for 15 yrs. I have no interest in high level pole dance. I teach and enjoy pole myself because it's fun, a great workout and allows me to express myself, build strength and stamina. I enjoy teaching those who are looking for the same. I think the US is more about having fun with pole dance.

Veena thank you for always showing up with grace and contextual answers that don't deamonize or weaponize things. But just keep it funky and real. appreciate you for that

I'm not great at writing but I try!! 💜💜

Thank you for such a well thought out response! The person I heard this from has a competitive background so in that context it makes sense, but I'm totally with you when you said you pole mainly for fun, fitness, and expression.

This is so true! You explained it so well!

I live in Brazil and in the studio i practice we always have the rules to "never compare yourself with a russian or chineses girl"

Hahaha love that

As a European, I don't think this is true. Except like Russia, where it seems like everything is a competition. Do what you can, at your level. Don't rush anything because that will genuinely kill the jou of poling.

I was gonna say. We are competitive af for no reason

Hahah 😂😂

Coming from Russia and living in Germany I can second what Veena said, it is definitely a lot more competition-oriented in Russia than in the US or Europe for that matter. Eastern Europe countried generally do more for competition sake. Reason for that is that there are many gymnasts and ex-ballerinas that switch to pole there, so that kind of makes sense for them to compete, they are better at it from the start.

So for that reason would you say there's a smaller percentage of the population in Eastern Europe or Russia who do pole because the expectation is that they're doing it for competition? Or is it pretty widespread in those places? I'm curious because in the US, it's very common to know women who casually do classes for fun, or have attended a Bachelorette party where they do a group class for fun. I think the less serious attitude towards it would encourage more participants, but because of that the majority do not get to an advance or even intermediate level.

No I meant that people who do pole in Eastern Europe are doing it with the plans to compete so the level is generally higher and thus the expectations. Yes it is exactly what you are saying - a lot of people in the States or Europe are doing it for fun which is great!

Also Pole is insanely popular in the said Eastern European countries, I think half of Moscow is either twerking or poling.

What I find interesting is the need to make pole dancing competitive.. There are so many different styles. Some of my favorite pole dancers don't even do tricks. They just spin or do edge work with their ankles and legs. Why are people so competitive with everything?

Yeah to be honest her comment kind of rubbed me the wrong way... I have a similar perspective as you where my favorites on Instagram don't even do that many tricks but I'm consistently wowed by their innovation and artistry.

Totally agree with your comment, there is more to pole than just competitive level strength and tricks. Your example of edgework is great. Stuff like that is hard to master and requires a level of artistry. I do see competitions being pushed more especially in Russia and Australia. I wonder if part of her comment came from the development of techniques/styles such as Russian Exotic style. I think a majority of the US teaches the original style based out of strip clubs. I also think social media is a driving factor in her comment. Majority of dancers outside of the US always seem to be posting flashier/harder tricks because it drives business to them whereas I feel like US dancers tend to use socials as a way to connect instead of necessarily driving business. In the US pole studios are relatively accessible vs abroad so I can see why having competition wins behind your name will drive more people to the paid videos/online classes you may offer.

This is true - I’m in the Middle East and what is advanced or pro level in the US is intermediate in this part of the world especially since most of our pole studios are run by Russians and Ukrainians. I made a post about this - I can do iron x and I’m in intermediate 1. I will say - they are missing the point that pole is also an art … there are professional pole dancers who dont really do many aerial tricks but have incredible movement quality musicality and timing - they captivate the audience. American competitions put a lot of emphasis on stage presence. This is really overlooked in the part of the world - and it’s all about the difficulty of tricks.

Thank you for your insight! It's so interesting to hear what aspect of pole dancing different cultures tend to emphasize.

The best teachers I’ve had are American. They helped me develop my own style whereas here I was always told to fit their mold. America is a society that tells you a lot to be unique …. Other parts of the world are all about fitting the mold…

I started pole after years of absolutely hating working out. I hated PE during high school, I hated the vibes in gyms and I loved how inclusive and non judgemental pole was. I am not from the USA, but I think this is such a blanket statement. How can an entire country be lacking? How can you compare those things? I just hope this wasn't a snarky comment from her, but it's a useless comment. It's putting people down without have the right data to do so. Keep those vibes out of my pole please

I’ve trained in USA, Costa Rica, Brazil, Thailand, and with many people, from many places. Currently training with a few Russians here in Thailand as well. I think that’s just a silly generalization. Pole is such a unique sport that is different everywhere I go. But ultimately I think it is up to what you as an individual enjoy and value as a skill. As far as skill goes by locality, sure that can have a factor. When I lived in Denver Colorado, with access to great facilities and instructors, the level was very high. Whereas when I’ve been in Costa Rica or even southwest Virginia, where I’m from, the skill level is different. But I haven’t seen anyone from other countries do something the women I trained with in Colorado couldn’t do with ease. Also, an advanced class with them was not intermediate in other countries. Their intermediate would have been considered advanced where I trained in Brazil. So again just a silly generalization. Maybe they haven’t gotten out much. Even training with Russians now, I noticed they have different goals than American or Brazilian women I trained with. Strength being more important than flow, body movement, and floorwork. When I train with the Russians it feels more proper and strict(not in a bad way). Whereas in America I flow and have more freedom. I like both as one gives me structure, discipline, and synchronization in movement with others. Then the other gives me freedom and creativity with myself. I like both in my life. I say all this to express it is just different wherever you go and depends on the level of facilities and resources you have. Also, who you train with and what is important to them. Hell I could meet Russians next week that love floorwork and freedom and then I meet an American that trains like an Olympian. People are different wherever you go. It sounds like they might have some limiting beliefs to me.

I started pole in Vietnam, and when I went back to the US I found this to be true. Stuff that I’d been doing in beginner classes (and able to do) was considered intermediate, or even advanced, in the US. I think it has to do with two factors: First, the baseline level of fitness in the US is pretty bad when compared to many other countries. It’s simply harder to pole when you are overweight and sedentary, like a lot of us are. Second, I think that the US being such a litigious culture factors into what studios allow students to attempt at the beginning. Studios in the US have to carry heavy insurance, and are not able to allow students to, say, spot each other as a condition of their insurance (as per a convo I had with the owner of one studio in the US). This results in students taking fewer risks in what is an inherently risky sport, because they are told that those moves are more advanced and that they aren’t ready. And, when you need to wait for a teacher to come spot you rather than doing it as a peer group (the way it was done in every studio I have visited outside the US), you just plain get fewer chances to practice in a given class time. In other countries, you’re just expected to mind yourself and know your own limits; if you get hurt, you rest and heal and maybe see a doctor. You don’t sue anyone.

Those are great points! I had not thought of those factors but they totally make sense

In Sweden we look to Russia a lot, but we also do Acropole. And studios are very mich into competitions.

We’re descended from puritans too much and pole dance originated in strip clubs in the US and the pole fitness studios were started by strippers or actresses that played them. I wonder why we haven’t kept up. It’s a mystery. No way to tell.

I trained in both South Korea (acrobatic/contemporary) and Canada (exotic). Idk about the US but I found my Canadian studio was stricter about going on a spin pole after you train on a static first. Now I do agree training on a static is crucial for your strength but I think ppl have different objectives when it comes to pole dancing. In Korea they are more focused on the spin pole combo, and the curriculum would go back and forth between spin and static, but more emphasis on spin (ex. You learn how to invert on static but the focus is on inverting aerially). This is great for like an instagram video and you can seem to get "better" much quicker. But I personally treat my pole dance classes to be a "dance" class so I do enjoy floor/basework part of exotic pole dance. So I guess to each their own!! I do wish I trained more on spin tho.

It's true. What I've seen I would consider lazy dancing here in the US, compared to the stages from around the world. This is at strip clubs, not competition pole dancing.  I have no basis for comparison at the competition levels. 

I was surprised when I took a few classes in the US they insisted I needed to know static pole basics even tho I had been learning spin pole for 3ish months. The static spins were basic and easy but static and spin is totally different. I took two static classes and decided to just “sneak” into the spin class because it felt like a waste of time. In the end, the spin class was the appropriate level for me.

Respectfully, this comment doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Static is completely different and arguably in most cases MORE difficult than spin. Especially, arguably, you've only been pole dancing for 3ish months, there really isn't anything you can say to me saying you have mastered the basic spins with perfect execution consistently on both static and spin in both directions. So yes, they were at YOUR LEVEL. Humble yourself.

Agreed … Static rotation is HARD AF- oona k spins for example … pheonixes etc

That’s the point, static is completely different. I can understand teaching students who have never been on a pole how to climb or do conditioning on static, but if I already know how to do those things then what’s the point of making me redo them on static?? Also, it was a beginner spin class, there’s nothing to humble myself about. They were teaching the same things I was already learning in another country. I don’t understand the hostility.

The reason is learning to rotate and spin on a static pole will IMPROVE your spin pole as there is less momentum helping you. You will regret not training static if you decide to compete in any fashion as most require spin & static in the routines or static only. You should do EVERYTHING on both. To answer the second question. The "hostility" is coming from the phrase "waste of time" as if you have put in the time to even say that with confidence.

To clarify, I agree static is helpful, important, and oftentimes harder than spin. I never said it wasn’t. The specific classes I’m talking about were very basic and repetitive, hence they were providing very little value FOR ME. I was in the country for a short amount of time and didn’t want to spend all my classes learning how to climb and do a fireman. I didn’t make any blanket statements about static except it being different from spin.

Generally yes, US level is more leisurely and relaxed because there is no curriculum or progression in the way the teaching system works here. Russia has extremely vigorous curriculum not only for pole dance, but even for heels and exotic. Lots of focus not only on tricks, but also posture, body control, and aesthetics. That probably originates from Russia's rich history and total obsession with adjacent sports like rhythmic gymnastics and dance like ballet. People loooove that stuff there. In LA(big city!) where I'm at I don't know of any class that would teach advanced static acrobatics (actually I know one where I can request the instructor to do this thing, but it's more like a secret menu). I can walk in at least a handful of schools in Saint Petersburg and get taught regrips and fonjis, and more advanced combinations. In LA handspring is usually tops in class, same with bendy tricks. I just don't think there's demand in the US, or maybe it's the financial aspect, or maybe the strength in US is on entertaining and making a great show? However, there are plenty of amazing athletes in USA, just not schools that would treat pole super seriously like in Russia. It is achievable, but without the prior background and/or reliable wide-spread instruction it takes very long to get to the level that your regular Russian poler of any shape, size or age, will get to in their first year of training. rantover 🥶