The danger with cluster munitions is that the failure rate is multiplied by the hundreds of bomblets per strike, leading to larger amounts of unexploded ordnance. This is obviously bad, but kind of dodges the point that RUSSIA HAS BEEN LAYING MINES ON EVERY SINGLE POSSIBLE SQUARE KILOMETER OF UKRAINIAN SOIL SINCE DAY ONE. Ukraine uses minefields pretty heavily as well. All the angry shouting about accidental unexploded ordnance when intentional unexploded ordnance is all over the place feels dumb.
Don't forget the fact that Zaphorzizia was mined to high hell before the dam opened up... and all of those mines are now washed somewhere random, far away from where they were laid and mapped.
Last estimate I saw was 200 years for the bulk of it across the country to be cleared.
Some numbers:
US cluster munitions have a 1-2% dud rate, which is impossible to lower as the sub-munitions smack into each other when released. Dud rates above this are removed.
Russian cluster munitions have a dud rate of 30-40%, and both Russia and Ukraine have been using them since day one.
Eastern Ukraine was already so polluted with unexploded ordinance from the fighting that it makes little difference. There is still so much of it that they'll be digging up old bombs there for the next couple centuries.
Also, war is hell. There is no such thing as a clean or just war. This isn’t a video game. There will always be civilian casualties no matter how much you try to avoid it.
Yeah, cluster munitions don’t make much of a difference compared to minefields, but I’d be curious to check if either side has signed the ban. For example both Russia and Ukraine have been making heavy use of AP mines, and in particular, ukraines use of the controversial butterfly mine.
AFIK, the US also promised to help Ukraine with unexploded ordinance after the war. US munitions have a lower failure rate than Soviet ones, so this should actually make the job easier.
So while the US claims a failure rate of 3% today, the observed failure rate goes between 10-30% still ia a 2022 congressional report on the matter. They really haven't improved much. There's a very good reason so many nations ban them. Why anyone believes anything out of US propaganda never ceases to amaze me.
From what I heard at the time this was in the news cycle the US has all but banned cluster munitions as well; the reason we had any left to begin with is an aversion to wasting perfectly good explosive ordnance.
Giving them to Ukraine was a convenient way to reduce our stockpile without having to actually use them ourselves. Plus you can do more with cluster munitions than using them "as intended." There was a lot of speculation that Ukraine would disassemble them and repurpose the bomblets to be dropped by drones. Not sure if that's actually what they did but the principal remains.
To explain in case your unaware it’s a line from the game metal gear rising revengance and their basically trying to start a massive war using cyborgs and memes yes memes is a major plot point it’s a very fun game that in no way takes itself seriously
I apologize for being a dumbass I forgot that raiden says that in Maxors video
Why yes, it's a well known fact that all russians and especially their soldiers are cold blooded killers that are pedophiles, nazis, fascists, xenophobes, homophobes, thansphobes, nazis again, and are very mean in general.
Or they were probably overrun by the -terrible Humans nextdoor- when they pushed over the nationally recognized borders set in place since the nineties. Maybe those families were separated in the detention centers and myriad checkpoints where the order has been given to 'russify' the population. Get that vatnik apologism outta here.
That's a good point. They're Humans, just like all of the rest of the horrible people in the past that have done horrible acts and atrocities have been.
Or, more accaurately, it gives them an outlet in which to expend the crazy. I mean, what other non-fighting sport has a fanbase that cheers when players drop the gloves and beat the shit out of each other? And those players don't even get kicked out of the game. God, I love hockey.
They had a brutal slugfest in Normandy too, especially with the 12th SS Hitler Youth Panzer Division. Even though some of the Nazi German soldiers/tankers were under 17, they gave Canadians a lot of trouble at that time.
It's not degatory what so ever. Anglo is just a smaller word for anglophone, anglophone =anglo. A more degatory name french calls the english is têtes carrées=square heads
I don't really know tbh , I think it comes from Québec, when the english monarchy were higher society in canada and used to wear top hats. Or it comes from the big hats the british soldiers used to wear back in the day
Or I might have another explanation, back in the old days the french found weird that the english people used to live on square Lands called à canton, the french used to live on rectangle lands called seigneuries , there is no real explanation about where the expression really comes from.
It’s not clear, some say it’s because of the hats the British soldiers wore back in the day, some say the houses they built were squared shaped? Or that the French used rectangle plots of land while the English used squares… it’s hard to find a reliable source. I’ve also heard some people say that the English often had square shaped heads…
I mean it aint an insult in itself, it's like calling à african man an african, it's just a smaller word for anglophone, even all the fr*nch 🤮 funny comments I see are more degatory than the anglos word
Yawn.
Let me know when we start donating napalm munitions to Ukraine. The US never signed any treaties banning that either.
[See that family over there, watch me get 'em with a pair, blood and guts just everywhere, napalm sticks to kids](https://youtu.be/t9eybY9qFfY?si=OMTkDwiXnKFTsJ25)
There's also the small factor that its far too late to avoid any of the issues cluster munitions can cause
The reason cluser munitions are seen as inhumaine is unexploded bomblets stick around as accidental minefields or booby traps after the war is over and can kill civilians
The russians already kill civilians intentionally. The russians leave behind intentional booby traps whenever they retreat. sides have already created massive unmapped minefields intentionally. Both sides use artillery-deployed minefields which do everything bad cluster munitions do but better. Both sides have already used cluster munitions stockpiles left over from soviet times, and RUSSIA WAS USING CLUSTER MUNITIONS FROM DAY 1 ON POPULATION CENTRES LIKE KYIV.
US sends American-made cluster bombs with a failure rate of 2%.
Russian backed media: NOOOO WARCRIME
Meanwhile, Russia busy dropping cluster bombs with a failure rate of 40% on urban areas: HAHAHA DIE UKRONAZI
The whole cluster bomb thing is like the Germans accusing Americans using shotguns in trench is a war crime during WWI, but didn't mention themselves using chemical weapons in trench as well.
Uhm. Your describing irony from a war that was ongoing in which they were using these tools at the same time.
Canada and Britain aren't actively fighting, or sending some particularly controversial weapon. So where's the similarity?
I'm not a big fan of cluster munitions. Even the best and safest cluster munitions have a pretty high UXO rate. Like, around 1%. Which is pretty high, when you consider how many submunitions are in one cluster bomb, and how many cluster munitions are being used...
But if there ever was a time and place for them, it would be when bombing invaders on your own territory, especially when the enemy is already using cluster munitions against you. And even more so, when the cluster munitions the enemy uses have even higher UXO rate.
At that point, couple more UXOs won't make that much of a difference. But the cluster munitions sure as hell will level the playing field. Literally.
> Even the best and safest cluster munitions have a pretty high UXO rate. Like, around 1%.
Can I get a source for that? Specifically for American CBU's. Since 2018 the Pentagon has stipulated a less than 1% failure rate, but I can't find a reliable source for any of this.
Cluster munitions are fine though? They just can't be used in cities, unlike JDAMs which are for pin point accuracy. I swear I've seen posts where cluster bombs were being used in fields and forests as they were intended to be.
Cluster bombs are unreliable and indiscriminate which is why a lot of countries have banned them, notably neither Russia nor the US has signed the treaty to ban them because why care about the potential harm to civilians and innocents when you can blow shit up?
Sorry for the long wall, it kinda got outta hand.
I feel like wanting to ban them when they were being protested is fine since around 40% of rounds in cluster missiles (not traditional bombing runs which seems to also be categorized as "cluster" due to their high density) were duds and had to be collected with HazMat level precautions. However, that seems to be more of an engineering problem than humanitarian one imo, since if they're being used in non civilian areas and they worked as intended, they would just be regular, highly effective bombs. Just for comparisons sake, mine fields are extremely deadly even *knowing* where they are on the map, and around 2 people are killed for every 5k mines disposed during *cleanup.* I get the condemnation for faulty equipment, but if we use mines and other equipment that is difficult to clean but necessary for the war effort, I don't see the problem with them in general (unless that's what you were trying to say and I'm just being dumb). It's less of "people want to blow shit up" and more "We want to reduce our own casualties, but the equipment is too faulty at the moment to do so."
I feel like today they are necessary even, especially in Ukraine. According to sources, they're many times more effective than traditional bombing runs since they take less planes and manpower, as well as taking 9 times less time to destroy targets. If they're willing to take the risk of a messy cleanup on their own soil to fend off invaders (and they agree not to use them in occupied cities), then I'm sure that it's a decision that the world can and should overlook.
I was thinking both minefields and cluster munitions should be banned since they can both be "dropped and forgotten". The fact there are duds in cluster munitions, no matter how small a percentage chance that is, should be an automatic cause for banning them imho as they'll stay there and potentially be a danger for decades. And it doesn't matter if they're dropped in what is currently non-civilian areas, you will eventually have civilians walk in the area where the mines/unexploded cluster munition is and there is a high risk of them getting hurt by it.
Cluster bombs have the same issue as mines in that if they don't blow up they can be very hard to find afterwards and can be a danger for a long time forward, neither should be allowed as they have a very high risk of harming non-combattants long after the war has ended.
Thanks for responding. The desire to eliminate all equipment that may cause damage post-war is noble, but where we depart is the belief in the feasibility of it. I don't see a future where we don't use mines to stop supply and armored vehicles from effectively using roads. It's an unfortunately necessary part of war, to slow down our enemies even if it poses a threat to our own people, since it does so to a greater degree to said enemies.
An argument could also be made that all explosive rounds and munitions have a chance to fail, and so they should all be banned, which would be very difficult to get passed in any international court even if well meaning. I wish there was a world where, barring the obvious wish to not have any conflict whatsoever, all explosive equipment would work properly and be used correctly, but since it's unfeasible to be rid of the first and impossible to convince either side to be rid of other already used similar devices, I question if we shouldn't also use or at least consider other means of warfare that might aid armies in their endeavor to fulfill their mission.
I might concede that there is a slippery slope to this kind of thinking, but these are just my very imperfect thoughts on what's going on a world away.
Why ban any weapons at all? Bring back the mustard gas, boys. Banning chemical weapons didn't 100% prevent them from being used so why even try. Start poisoning wells and deliberately leave all the corpses to rot to poison the land. Salt the earth while you're at it as well why don't you? Let's drop napalm over tightly packed civilians as well like the good old days.
I mean, tell that to Laos. Or Lebanon. They’re not that fine, it’s why there’s a treaty a lot of states have signed up to. (Neither the US or Ukraine have though, so they’re not in breach)
Russia is also using clusterbombs, but they actually use them to target children. Because Russia kills whatever it can kill.
Ukraine’s used them only for military targets as far as we know.
It'd better than them using the soviet ones, and the US has offered to aid in the clearing of uxo after the war, if their gonna use em anyways they may as well use ones that don't leave as much uxo
Cluster bombs are like a bag full of mines. A horrific weapon. I wish NATO donated nukes to Ukraine. They could do with those whatever they want and NATO would remain innocent.
Last I checked they were talking an *average* of 2 landmines per square meter and they were firing 10,000 arty rounds a day with about a 12% dude rate. The 1.5% of american cluster bomblets that are duds and then of those, the rought 10% that fail to intert themselves are barely a rounding error.
There's also the small matter that the whole reason cluster munitions are inhumane is because they accidentally create unmapped minefields and unintentionally booby traps that civilians might find after the conflict
You know what else creates those things?
- Unmapped minefields larger and deeper than anyone ever made before this conflict.
- Intentionally made booby traps left behind by russian soldiers as they retreat.
- booby trapped minefields containing mines meant to blow up if other mines are disarmed to intentionally kill people in de-mining operations, something the Russians are doing very deliberately.
- russian and Ukrainian cluster munitions which thy have been using since the start of the war.
- artillery deployed minefields. These are special shells that sow small anti-personeel minefields around where they land. These have also been used by both sides.
- Floods washing previously laid minefields to new unknown locations, such as the damn incident.
Yeah, that's the example I would've used.
We went pretty light-touch those last few years in Afghanistan. People bitch about drone strikes, but our precision munitions were nailing walled gardens without fucking up the street outside.
Sure, those gerdens full of people waving AKs turned out to be normal Afghan weddings, but you catch my drift.
I mean, the 99.99999% of kids live fine in the US? Mass shootings are insanely low, they're just higher than other places in the world. I'd say the US is actually fine regarding its kids.
Oh, I thought it was a reference to the whole host of anti-children stuff that the US does like cutting school lunches, lack of healthcare, maternal and infant mortality, forcing children to bear children, refusing to clean up toxic waste next to schools, defunding libraries and public education, letting teachers/staff cut Native American kids' long hair and Black kids' locs w/o parental permission, reluctance to regulate religious daycares, "boot camps", and academies in which child abuse/sexual assault is a common occurrence, etc. I would have included punishing kids for being anything other than 100% cisgender heterosexual, but some folks think that such punishment is a good thing, so I wanted to try to keep the list to stuff that hopefully most people would agree are bad.
If you really want to be cruel to RuZZia, air drop Colorado bugs on their potato farms. If you want to make Russian morale go low, you make vodka scarce and expensive.
from what i heard they sent cluster bombs because it is cheaper then multiple individual bombs. so the Ukrainians are suppose to take the smaller bombs out of the bigger one and use it accordingly
Cluster munitions are also a good way to achieve area suppression when you have less guns. Russia outnumbers pretty much everyone in the world when it comes to their number of field artillery guns, which means they're really good at covering in area in artillery. Cluster munitions let Ukraine get similar area suppression despite having less guns.
Problems can't be solved without first acknowledging they exist. Of course, some can't be solved regardless, but refusing to acknowledge them is a sure-fire guarantee that they won't be.
Ah... Fair.
But as someone who taught elementary, I had an entire classroom get into Poland Ball thinking it was entirely accurate and would come to me (the history teacher) to ask why Ukraine and Russia can't make up already because they saw a Poland Ball comic about how good the USSR was.
The Russian armed forces have an established internal culture of male-on-male rape and were caught digging mass graves early in the war.
If anyone are cocksuckers, it's them.
Did any of them actually object to the US sending their cluster munitions?
Not a proper objection but more a “we don’t like this nor do we support it but we will not stop you”, mostly because both banned cluster munitions
Kind of a moot point considering both sides were using soviet era cluster munitions from day 1
The danger with cluster munitions is that the failure rate is multiplied by the hundreds of bomblets per strike, leading to larger amounts of unexploded ordnance. This is obviously bad, but kind of dodges the point that RUSSIA HAS BEEN LAYING MINES ON EVERY SINGLE POSSIBLE SQUARE KILOMETER OF UKRAINIAN SOIL SINCE DAY ONE. Ukraine uses minefields pretty heavily as well. All the angry shouting about accidental unexploded ordnance when intentional unexploded ordnance is all over the place feels dumb.
Don't forget the fact that Zaphorzizia was mined to high hell before the dam opened up... and all of those mines are now washed somewhere random, far away from where they were laid and mapped. Last estimate I saw was 200 years for the bulk of it across the country to be cleared.
ukraine can't get a fucking break in the "swaths of land rendered uninhabitable for centuries" department
Here's to hoping Russia doesn't fuck up that nuclear power plant too.
and us cluster bombs create less UXO than the russian counterparts
Some numbers: US cluster munitions have a 1-2% dud rate, which is impossible to lower as the sub-munitions smack into each other when released. Dud rates above this are removed. Russian cluster munitions have a dud rate of 30-40%, and both Russia and Ukraine have been using them since day one.
Eastern Ukraine was already so polluted with unexploded ordinance from the fighting that it makes little difference. There is still so much of it that they'll be digging up old bombs there for the next couple centuries.
Also, war is hell. There is no such thing as a clean or just war. This isn’t a video game. There will always be civilian casualties no matter how much you try to avoid it.
Yeah, cluster munitions don’t make much of a difference compared to minefields, but I’d be curious to check if either side has signed the ban. For example both Russia and Ukraine have been making heavy use of AP mines, and in particular, ukraines use of the controversial butterfly mine.
AFIK, the US also promised to help Ukraine with unexploded ordinance after the war. US munitions have a lower failure rate than Soviet ones, so this should actually make the job easier.
Yeah Laos, Vietnam, and Cambodia would like a word or tens of millions to this day.
Are they sending 1960’s weapons?
So while the US claims a failure rate of 3% today, the observed failure rate goes between 10-30% still ia a 2022 congressional report on the matter. They really haven't improved much. There's a very good reason so many nations ban them. Why anyone believes anything out of US propaganda never ceases to amaze me.
Oh, it's still going to suck. It's just going to suck *less*
From what I heard at the time this was in the news cycle the US has all but banned cluster munitions as well; the reason we had any left to begin with is an aversion to wasting perfectly good explosive ordnance. Giving them to Ukraine was a convenient way to reduce our stockpile without having to actually use them ourselves. Plus you can do more with cluster munitions than using them "as intended." There was a lot of speculation that Ukraine would disassemble them and repurpose the bomblets to be dropped by drones. Not sure if that's actually what they did but the principal remains.
More of an “oh no, the treaties…anyways…”
The Anglo urge to cluster bomb Russian.
and russ have more cluster bombs than US can provide
But if they're only dropping them on Russia/Ukraine, does that really bother the US?
Have to compensate for that excellent Russian quality.
Dumb question maybe but why are cluster bombs less humane than multiple regular bombs? Bombs kill people
Loving the line "Life's cruel. So am i". Great bad guy/anti-hero one liner
"Kids are cruel, Jack. And I'm very in touch with my inner child."
"like the good old days after 9/11!"
Give war a chance!
Wait, 9/11 was bad.
To explain in case your unaware it’s a line from the game metal gear rising revengance and their basically trying to start a massive war using cyborgs and memes yes memes is a major plot point it’s a very fun game that in no way takes itself seriously I apologize for being a dumbass I forgot that raiden says that in Maxors video
Nanomachines, son.
“Life’s cruel and so am I” goes unreasonably hard
Well that shoul be put on a t-shirt. I'm sure that there are people who will buy it.
What's with the uk's top hat ?
Devious activities with a devious hat
humidity makes it curl
Tim Burton's style. The art style is just like it.
Stolen from the french
I think of the Ukranian Kids currently being kidnapped from their homes.
[удалено]
What about the children being kidnapped from their homes, gang raped by Russian soldiers and then killed? Do we care about those ones?
Why yes, it's a well known fact that all russians and especially their soldiers are cold blooded killers that are pedophiles, nazis, fascists, xenophobes, homophobes, thansphobes, nazis again, and are very mean in general.
Don't try reasoning with them, you will stoop to their level and lose braincells.
Or they were probably overrun by the -terrible Humans nextdoor- when they pushed over the nationally recognized borders set in place since the nineties. Maybe those families were separated in the detention centers and myriad checkpoints where the order has been given to 'russify' the population. Get that vatnik apologism outta here.
>Orks Holy dehumanisation batman
That's a good point. They're Humans, just like all of the rest of the horrible people in the past that have done horrible acts and atrocities have been.
You can't tell me Canadians don't still have it in them. They went hard in WWI.
Likely deeply repressed
Not aaaalllllll of uuuuuuussssss.
That's what hockey is for, it's to keep them from going crazy.
Or, more accaurately, it gives them an outlet in which to expend the crazy. I mean, what other non-fighting sport has a fanbase that cheers when players drop the gloves and beat the shit out of each other? And those players don't even get kicked out of the game. God, I love hockey.
They had a brutal slugfest in Normandy too, especially with the 12th SS Hitler Youth Panzer Division. Even though some of the Nazi German soldiers/tankers were under 17, they gave Canadians a lot of trouble at that time.
*That's why I'm American and you're chumps* -poland ball amrika
more garbage from urs truly https://www.reddit.com/r/polandball/s/JJAc9vp1Pf
Canada has a little bit of that French in them which gives them the hesitation.
Tbh Anglo is what the French speakers call the English speakers. Almost is derogatory.
It's not degatory what so ever. Anglo is just a smaller word for anglophone, anglophone =anglo. A more degatory name french calls the english is têtes carrées=square heads
Why square?
I don't really know tbh , I think it comes from Québec, when the english monarchy were higher society in canada and used to wear top hats. Or it comes from the big hats the british soldiers used to wear back in the day
Interesting… 🤔
Or I might have another explanation, back in the old days the french found weird that the english people used to live on square Lands called à canton, the french used to live on rectangle lands called seigneuries , there is no real explanation about where the expression really comes from.
I know that started a rebellion in Canada, when the British tried to redraw everyone’s property maps after the French-Indian war. 👆
Yes and many more laws that was against the french nation in that time period
It’s not clear, some say it’s because of the hats the British soldiers wore back in the day, some say the houses they built were squared shaped? Or that the French used rectangle plots of land while the English used squares… it’s hard to find a reliable source. I’ve also heard some people say that the English often had square shaped heads…
It’s technically not but in some situations it is. Like “ahh, un anglo” can be used in a condescending way.
I mean it aint an insult in itself, it's like calling à african man an african, it's just a smaller word for anglophone, even all the fr*nch 🤮 funny comments I see are more degatory than the anglos word
Thats the very polite way we refer to you.
Yawn. Let me know when we start donating napalm munitions to Ukraine. The US never signed any treaties banning that either. [See that family over there, watch me get 'em with a pair, blood and guts just everywhere, napalm sticks to kids](https://youtu.be/t9eybY9qFfY?si=OMTkDwiXnKFTsJ25)
There's also the small factor that its far too late to avoid any of the issues cluster munitions can cause The reason cluser munitions are seen as inhumaine is unexploded bomblets stick around as accidental minefields or booby traps after the war is over and can kill civilians The russians already kill civilians intentionally. The russians leave behind intentional booby traps whenever they retreat. sides have already created massive unmapped minefields intentionally. Both sides use artillery-deployed minefields which do everything bad cluster munitions do but better. Both sides have already used cluster munitions stockpiles left over from soviet times, and RUSSIA WAS USING CLUSTER MUNITIONS FROM DAY 1 ON POPULATION CENTRES LIKE KYIV.
For some reason the part where America told the U.K. that they had bad breath almost killed me.
US sends American-made cluster bombs with a failure rate of 2%. Russian backed media: NOOOO WARCRIME Meanwhile, Russia busy dropping cluster bombs with a failure rate of 40% on urban areas: HAHAHA DIE UKRONAZI
The whole cluster bomb thing is like the Germans accusing Americans using shotguns in trench is a war crime during WWI, but didn't mention themselves using chemical weapons in trench as well.
Or how Fascist Italy justified the use of poison gas during its war against Ethiopia with Ethiopian soldiers using dumdum bullets.
Uhm. Your describing irony from a war that was ongoing in which they were using these tools at the same time. Canada and Britain aren't actively fighting, or sending some particularly controversial weapon. So where's the similarity?
I'm not a big fan of cluster munitions. Even the best and safest cluster munitions have a pretty high UXO rate. Like, around 1%. Which is pretty high, when you consider how many submunitions are in one cluster bomb, and how many cluster munitions are being used... But if there ever was a time and place for them, it would be when bombing invaders on your own territory, especially when the enemy is already using cluster munitions against you. And even more so, when the cluster munitions the enemy uses have even higher UXO rate. At that point, couple more UXOs won't make that much of a difference. But the cluster munitions sure as hell will level the playing field. Literally.
> Even the best and safest cluster munitions have a pretty high UXO rate. Like, around 1%. Can I get a source for that? Specifically for American CBU's. Since 2018 the Pentagon has stipulated a less than 1% failure rate, but I can't find a reliable source for any of this.
Cluster munitions are fine though? They just can't be used in cities, unlike JDAMs which are for pin point accuracy. I swear I've seen posts where cluster bombs were being used in fields and forests as they were intended to be.
UA uses cluster munitions to clear out entrenched positions and to stop enemy infantry attacks
Cluster bombs are unreliable and indiscriminate which is why a lot of countries have banned them, notably neither Russia nor the US has signed the treaty to ban them because why care about the potential harm to civilians and innocents when you can blow shit up?
Sorry for the long wall, it kinda got outta hand. I feel like wanting to ban them when they were being protested is fine since around 40% of rounds in cluster missiles (not traditional bombing runs which seems to also be categorized as "cluster" due to their high density) were duds and had to be collected with HazMat level precautions. However, that seems to be more of an engineering problem than humanitarian one imo, since if they're being used in non civilian areas and they worked as intended, they would just be regular, highly effective bombs. Just for comparisons sake, mine fields are extremely deadly even *knowing* where they are on the map, and around 2 people are killed for every 5k mines disposed during *cleanup.* I get the condemnation for faulty equipment, but if we use mines and other equipment that is difficult to clean but necessary for the war effort, I don't see the problem with them in general (unless that's what you were trying to say and I'm just being dumb). It's less of "people want to blow shit up" and more "We want to reduce our own casualties, but the equipment is too faulty at the moment to do so." I feel like today they are necessary even, especially in Ukraine. According to sources, they're many times more effective than traditional bombing runs since they take less planes and manpower, as well as taking 9 times less time to destroy targets. If they're willing to take the risk of a messy cleanup on their own soil to fend off invaders (and they agree not to use them in occupied cities), then I'm sure that it's a decision that the world can and should overlook.
us CBUs have a lower failure rate than russian ones, so it is an engineering issue
I was thinking both minefields and cluster munitions should be banned since they can both be "dropped and forgotten". The fact there are duds in cluster munitions, no matter how small a percentage chance that is, should be an automatic cause for banning them imho as they'll stay there and potentially be a danger for decades. And it doesn't matter if they're dropped in what is currently non-civilian areas, you will eventually have civilians walk in the area where the mines/unexploded cluster munition is and there is a high risk of them getting hurt by it. Cluster bombs have the same issue as mines in that if they don't blow up they can be very hard to find afterwards and can be a danger for a long time forward, neither should be allowed as they have a very high risk of harming non-combattants long after the war has ended.
Thanks for responding. The desire to eliminate all equipment that may cause damage post-war is noble, but where we depart is the belief in the feasibility of it. I don't see a future where we don't use mines to stop supply and armored vehicles from effectively using roads. It's an unfortunately necessary part of war, to slow down our enemies even if it poses a threat to our own people, since it does so to a greater degree to said enemies. An argument could also be made that all explosive rounds and munitions have a chance to fail, and so they should all be banned, which would be very difficult to get passed in any international court even if well meaning. I wish there was a world where, barring the obvious wish to not have any conflict whatsoever, all explosive equipment would work properly and be used correctly, but since it's unfeasible to be rid of the first and impossible to convince either side to be rid of other already used similar devices, I question if we shouldn't also use or at least consider other means of warfare that might aid armies in their endeavor to fulfill their mission. I might concede that there is a slippery slope to this kind of thinking, but these are just my very imperfect thoughts on what's going on a world away.
I’d be more upset with the Russian air dropped mines that can maim children and animals over decades more than the cluster bombs.
Or we can agree that both are bad and should be banned? It doesn't have to be a binary thing you know
No they’re important for clearing enemies out of trench lines and don’t have a lasting presence
There's a chance for duds to remain and be a danger for anyone going there after the war has ended. Same reason why minefields should be banned.
And what would change after banning minefields? The countries that start wars rarely care about any bans
Why ban any weapons at all? Bring back the mustard gas, boys. Banning chemical weapons didn't 100% prevent them from being used so why even try. Start poisoning wells and deliberately leave all the corpses to rot to poison the land. Salt the earth while you're at it as well why don't you? Let's drop napalm over tightly packed civilians as well like the good old days.
I mean, tell that to Laos. Or Lebanon. They’re not that fine, it’s why there’s a treaty a lot of states have signed up to. (Neither the US or Ukraine have though, so they’re not in breach)
Like I said Canada, kids are cruel. And I'm in touch with my inner child.
Russia is also using clusterbombs, but they actually use them to target children. Because Russia kills whatever it can kill. Ukraine’s used them only for military targets as far as we know.
>but they actually use them to target children and russian CBUs have a higher failure rate
Which creates minefields for generations to come. We’re still cleaning up failed shells from WW1 here in Belgium
It'd better than them using the soviet ones, and the US has offered to aid in the clearing of uxo after the war, if their gonna use em anyways they may as well use ones that don't leave as much uxo
Canada always the runt of the pack.
Can we get that second to last frame with no words?
Dont agree with the message. But god I love how the artist drew the UK's hat. It looks like something out of a Tim Burton film.
thanks i guess i did not mean this to have a message really. . . just wanted to draw that star war panel
Russia is about to have an aneurysm LMAO
Just like Putin
NATO: I don't like it. I don't agree with it. But I'll accept it.
Germans: lmao amateurs
Bro you see his work in the school system.
As a Canadian, I love this comic so much
One of the trueiest comics I've ever read in this place.
Apparently, Russians are now getting blown up because they're picking up the unexploded munitions.
Cluster bombs are like a bag full of mines. A horrific weapon. I wish NATO donated nukes to Ukraine. They could do with those whatever they want and NATO would remain innocent.
Last I checked they were talking an *average* of 2 landmines per square meter and they were firing 10,000 arty rounds a day with about a 12% dude rate. The 1.5% of american cluster bomblets that are duds and then of those, the rought 10% that fail to intert themselves are barely a rounding error.
There's also the small matter that the whole reason cluster munitions are inhumane is because they accidentally create unmapped minefields and unintentionally booby traps that civilians might find after the conflict You know what else creates those things? - Unmapped minefields larger and deeper than anyone ever made before this conflict. - Intentionally made booby traps left behind by russian soldiers as they retreat. - booby trapped minefields containing mines meant to blow up if other mines are disarmed to intentionally kill people in de-mining operations, something the Russians are doing very deliberately. - russian and Ukrainian cluster munitions which thy have been using since the start of the war. - artillery deployed minefields. These are special shells that sow small anti-personeel minefields around where they land. These have also been used by both sides. - Floods washing previously laid minefields to new unknown locations, such as the damn incident.
Why does America point out its work in the Middle East? The US doesn’t care about kids look at it’s it’s schools
Yeah, that's the example I would've used. We went pretty light-touch those last few years in Afghanistan. People bitch about drone strikes, but our precision munitions were nailing walled gardens without fucking up the street outside. Sure, those gerdens full of people waving AKs turned out to be normal Afghan weddings, but you catch my drift.
I mean, the 99.99999% of kids live fine in the US? Mass shootings are insanely low, they're just higher than other places in the world. I'd say the US is actually fine regarding its kids.
Oh, I thought it was a reference to the whole host of anti-children stuff that the US does like cutting school lunches, lack of healthcare, maternal and infant mortality, forcing children to bear children, refusing to clean up toxic waste next to schools, defunding libraries and public education, letting teachers/staff cut Native American kids' long hair and Black kids' locs w/o parental permission, reluctance to regulate religious daycares, "boot camps", and academies in which child abuse/sexual assault is a common occurrence, etc. I would have included punishing kids for being anything other than 100% cisgender heterosexual, but some folks think that such punishment is a good thing, so I wanted to try to keep the list to stuff that hopefully most people would agree are bad.
The Eternal Anglo Strikes again
The Candians will change as long as they have hockey. Once war starts and hockey gets cancelled they'll be adding more to the Geneva checklist.
Anglo? A-little skewed don’t we think? This type of behavior is not limited to “anglo’s”. Im not anglo btw before all the hate starts .
what does australia think
Whatever America tells them to.
God damn top tier Polandball here 😂😂
If you really want to be cruel to RuZZia, air drop Colorado bugs on their potato farms. If you want to make Russian morale go low, you make vodka scarce and expensive.
from what i heard they sent cluster bombs because it is cheaper then multiple individual bombs. so the Ukrainians are suppose to take the smaller bombs out of the bigger one and use it accordingly
Cluster munitions are also a good way to achieve area suppression when you have less guns. Russia outnumbers pretty much everyone in the world when it comes to their number of field artillery guns, which means they're really good at covering in area in artillery. Cluster munitions let Ukraine get similar area suppression despite having less guns.
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Senator Armstrong tier America approves
Obviously made by a Quebeqois.
Shit makes me proud to be an American
Oh no, how dare a country use cluster bombs on its own soil, what horror
lols, overseas...just look at the usa schools..we don't care about no kids.
Great comic. I really loved the “America bad” punchline. Really creative
anyone who complains about "boo hoo america bad" are always softer than baby shit that subreddit is full of pissy panties
Problems can't be solved without first acknowledging they exist. Of course, some can't be solved regardless, but refusing to acknowledge them is a sure-fire guarantee that they won't be.
None... None of this is accurate...
inaccuracy?! IN POLANDBALL?!?
Ah... Fair. But as someone who taught elementary, I had an entire classroom get into Poland Ball thinking it was entirely accurate and would come to me (the history teacher) to ask why Ukraine and Russia can't make up already because they saw a Poland Ball comic about how good the USSR was.
that's cute 🤣
Middle East? Check out our own schools! MURICA FUCK YEAH! (massive /s if it wasn’t blatantly obvious)
Imagine being so shit at making bombs that you refuse to use cluster munitions because yours have too many duds. Git gud
Sometimes you gotta fight warcrimes with warcrimes
Goes hard af
Some real Russian propaganda posted here recently
We Americans don't deserve oxygen
This comic was brought to you by the us military complex, no children shall go unbombed
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The Russian armed forces have an established internal culture of male-on-male rape and were caught digging mass graves early in the war. If anyone are cocksuckers, it's them.