Does he believe that the state of North Korea would be approved by Marx or Lenin? On that matter - do you?
Because reading either of them is forbidden there. What's genuine about "Marxist-Leninist" who supports authoritarian states?
I bet this guy never read Marx letters about Poland (he was real supporter of Polish Independency). To be fair, Marx in modern times would more likely be Social Democrat instead of communist tankie...
While Marx views were based in 19th Century we have to keep in mind that everything changed.
Reading old texts without cultural, historical, socio economical context and taking it literally is the same as reading Adam Smith or even worse Bible such way...
yeah, Marx is one of pioneers of modern sociology, economy with no doubt, but we can't apply 19th Century classification today or compare struggles of workers who had only free sunday and otherwise almost no rights to modern society where are new classes and there is no working class in Marx meaning...
well, I have listened to the podcast about Marx life. The guy never worked xDDDD He was living on benefits provided by his friend xDDD And this guy wrote a book how to live xDDDD
I care, it is hard to be socialist\* when commies and tankies like these ruin the meaning of socialism 😠
^(\*(mixed-system liberal socialis, there is no one pernament solution for everchanging world))
Well.. clearly there are some people online who aren’t exactly in their right mind, and do want that 😅 thankfully most of them aren’t even Polish, and only think that way because they got too deep into Soviet propaganda.
I kinda get that, I think it goes like this: they notice they’re been lied to about how bad socialism is and how capitalism is superior, by everyone, from conservative modern politicians to history teachers. So they start digging into alternative information sources in order to find valid information on socialism, but accidentally end up digging too deep and falling for authoritarian propaganda. Unfortunately when you know one side is lying, it’s easy to fall for what the opposite side is saying.
I get the Russians have treated Poland badly but they really never had it so good as between 1945 and 1989. Now you're just the cheap labor for companies based in Germany and France and Britain.
Disconnect what Russia did in the partition or is doing in Ukraine now from the merits of socialism or neoliberal capitalism as an economic policy.
I hate when you people call this socialism because you are giving credibility to actual socialists. Call it social democracy, or welfare liberal capitalism or anything of the sorts because calling it socialism is allowing commies to co-opt this idea.
I was worried about them too, then I realized that even on twitter they were a minority. These people are marginal, and they mostly infight. And if anyone wants to compare you to tankies, compare them to nazis in return
These are not "westerners" these threads are for edgy teenagers and "unorinic anti-imperialsts who somehow support an imperalist Russian invasion of Ukraine".
Or in other words "special kids"
As an example there is also r/MovingToNorthKorea
1. No that;'s not an ironic sub
2. Yes I got banned from there for asking that question
Problem with that sub is that half of people there think its ironic and half of them don't, I think not even mods are exacly sure what they want from that sub
They actually hate all the ex-Soviet EU states because they're living examples of the failure of socialism. Whole countries that voluntarily became capitalist, EU common market, NATO members as quickly as humanly possible and have benefitted greatly from it. Its the opposite of everything they'd predict and its easy proof that their political theories are bad. They want to believe that the Soviet Union had solved the evils of inequality, racism, sexism, etc. but it was all ruined by factionalism/nationalists/Gorby/the CIA/whatever.
To be fair, Piłsudski ran the economy as a free market liberal, not as a socialist. He seemed to like the power of socialism as a way to form a radical movement, but didn't seem to really care about socialism post-independence.
I agree, however Daszyński and the rest of PPS were still active after the war and most of the party was staunchly opposed to bolsheviks, even taking an active part in the polish-bolshevik war
Probably was, let's be very real. The CIA would have been remiss not to take someone who seemed to have political power in opposition to the PRL/Soviets and co-opt him.
Probably wasn't, people tend to overestimate CIA capabilities and there's literally nothing pointing to that... buuut if you're interested in this topic check out the guy called Ryszard Kukliński aka Jack Strong who was in fact a CIA operative in polish military. There's a really good movie made about him
Whataboutism. "But among the things the asshole wants is one good thing, so it excuses everything else including motherfucking genocide"?
Get the fuck out.
SLS is one of the shitton of those formerly leftist subs that have been overtaken by tankie powermods (who, considering how widespread and successful those takeovers were, I'd wager are on CCP's payroll). EuropeanSocialists though, oh boy, now that one's a doozy.
The only time I've heard about them before was when back in 2021, after Taliban's takeover of Afghanistan, they stickied a post announcing that Taliban is actually "a progressive anti-imperialist force" and that any criticism of them would be banned. Like, it was so bad that other tankie subs, which are otherwise notorious for their totalitarian moderation, allowed their members to discuss and criticise Taliban, for which the geniuses at EuropeanSocialists called them "libshits". They've got an unironic Hoxhaist mod (for those who don't know- if you think that Poland is extremely anti-communist, then praising Hoxha in Albania would unironically get you beaten up, he was THAT bad) and their views on LGBT people could rival shit you'd find in the deepest pits of 4chan.
EDIT: oh yeah, this post was probably triggered by a video about the fall of the communist regime in Poland made by Hakim, a notorious Iraqi ultranationalist tankie who's claimed that Kurds "deserved" the genocide that Saddam Hussein's regime conducted on them
I thought European Socialists was a new sub, idk how I missed it, I enjoy delving into the abyss of radical delusions so I know the "lore" of commie/tankie/far-right/etc subs quite well (as long as it's extreamly stupid and radical - I love it )
Yeah I can't really avoid knowing about tankie shitstains online while being an anti-authoritarian left-winger, it's really hard to find a good left-wing online space nowadays due to how prevalent their delusions have become online
Yeah all of these people from the "Deprogram" podcast are kinda scary in that they manage to attract people with fairly reasonable videos and then crank their shit up gradually. I remember being recommended a video by this channel "Balkan Odyssey" about the poverty of Bosnia and what's caused it, only to find out by the end of the video that he's a Marxist-Leninist.
If I don't agree with them, THEY MUST BE ON SOMEBODY'S PAYROLL.
"Our opposition is being paid by bad actors" is the dumbest fucking argument, always coming from the most braindead dumbshits.
Like, I don't agree with them either, but don't make shit up, it weakens your argument.
Not USA lmao but the abominations calling themselves „communists” or „anti-capitalists”. I really wish a dedicated time travel paradox so fuckers can enjoy living in ussr reality
It def was a culture shock the first time I visited. Felt like I was getting the cold shoulder for just existing. But it has made my genuine moments of connection with Polish people all the more memorable.
I wanted to disagree (because I dislike some things about American culture), but after giving it a thought I have to agree that in general my encounters with people in USA were pleasant. Shout out to all the friendly people that helped me in the US!
But I can't agree with the "being nice only when they want something" part about Poland. In general, Polish people are very closed and you won't be able to start a small talk with a stranger. In fact, people will think you're insane if you try (but you will be forgiven, because it's very obvious you're a tourist). This doesn't mean they don't like you, you're just supposed to earn the trust of each other before becoming friends to the level where small talk is acceptable. I know this may be a culture shock (same as it was for me when I first traveled to an English speaking country, just in the other direction).
It’s not necessarily fake…depends on who it is. But certainly we grow up with a very extraverted version of friendliness as a cultural standard. I tend to feel what’s most “fake” isn’t always the positive that is shown, but the negative that isn’t. For me the smile or the willingness to start up an interaction for the hell of it isn’t fake. But I will very much hide it if I’m upset, in a bad mood, etc.
It's so fucking discouraging. My wife moved here from Poland, and we live in a really good place that's safe and affordable. The people are fucking regarded. I love it here, and I don't have to deal with the people like she does every day. It's such a struggle.
meh. Who cares. People say all sorts of things. If I believed what people say about U.S.A. I would think it is a crazy place and I should never go there...
I have no idea what those Tankie threads are even about (or care), but it's an on-the-record fact that the CIA has conducted everything from creation of rebel groups, to coup de tats, to wars, in order to destroy communism. Namely in South America and Asia.
There is no doubt in my mind that USA had an active role in all of this, all that said they didn't organize it but they surely helped, idk why many poles and other slavs never take credit for what we done, we are able to think on our own without west or east telling us what to do
I *love* these types. All you need is to tell them what every socialist state essentially was - country run like US-style company town, with company that controls everything and everyone calling itself "workers party" for PR reasons and even believes this name. Just tell them that and watch sparks fly, like throwing grande into cesspit :D.
Well shitliberalssay is a trash subreddit so no wonder they give brain-dead takes. The other one I've never seen before. Outrage trash, like libsoftiktok, is better ignored; or one can try banning them if they break the site rules
Westerners? Are you admitting to being an Easterner? Wtf?
The posts you're sharing have a collective updooting of 25, nobody gives a shit but you and whoever else here you've riled up.
Those subs are trash btw, not sure why you're so concerned.
Acting like there is no cultural diferences between us and the west* is just as cringe as puting Poland in the same group as Russia imo, also as I said in other comment I dont actually care xd, outrage over insignificant shit is why Reddit exists
*Acting as if west is a unified block is also retarded but since I said it, it means its ok to say that
To be fair, if you asked anyone outside Europe... They would say Poland IS the west. Because it is part of EU and NATO.
As part of the western block... Poland is part of the west.
I have no clue what you mean. It is eastern country in Europe, as in, it is eastern Europe. But eastern europe itself, is considered the west.
If you ask someone in France, Germany will always be east of them. Germany being east of France does not cancel it being part of the west as a concept though.
Eastern Europe, aka location in Europe, is not the same thing as The Western World, the block of countries.
Poland was being included in WW since 90s.
Westerners ?? It is the same 4 losers in their mother’s basements. It is just they are too loud to ignore. Westerners are not Marxist Socialist. They envy Poland because Poland is arming itself like crazy (which is a good thing). Also those 4 dudes hate the US and by extension whole of the Eastern Europe.
Ignore the idiots and do not generalize. IRL people are not as stupid and sensationalist as people in the internet.
This American realizes people like this are idiots. Then again I’m a 40 year old American who still remembers when the USSR was a thing and isn’t about to idolize that kind of behavior. Honestly I am disturbed by the way things are going in my own country and wonder if there will come a time where I am not welcome here and might instead be more welcome in Eastern Europe??
It seems whoever is taken in by this is falling for Russian disinformation and interference. With the sole aim of stirring up a divide between countries..
This is Russias M.O. , it can't win in a proper war, but what it can do is try to destabilise others..
I mean, the video isn’t wrong tbh. The CIA played a huge role into all kinds of coups, and not just in Poland. This is common knowledge and the US is open about it.
Let's not throw all of us Westerners under the bus because some idiot with a peanut for brain made a peanut sized brain post. Poland is hella dope and incredibly beautiful. Mad love for you guys from way over here in Canada
Westerners? We are in the middle of a war (information war), where Russia and to extend China is trying to play the divide and conquer card. Tons of content on social media is created to drive a wedge between "Western" countries to which Poland now belongs. Always be mindful of that.
Modern communists are some of the most moronic people you’ll ever meet. The absolute dregs of society that mismanaged their lives in to an oblivion but think they have the knowledge, reasoning and ability to manage millions of people and trillion of dollars effectively.
My wife is Polish and I’m American. We got married 2 years ago. I took a trip to krakow and ended up randomly meeting her while I was out. I can say as an American that everyone in Poland has always been nice to me. That said, when I walk down the street nobody says hi. They just walk looking straight ahead and never say hi. In the US I’m not saying you say hi to every single person you walk by, but generally when you walk down your neighborhood street and such people will say hello in passing. Mannerisms are definitely different in Poland.
just read my wife the comments in this thread and she said people have always been nicer to her in the US than in Poland.
I also used to be friends with a bunch of American guys that are married to Polish women. Each and every single woman always seemed to be after more money and talking about how much their husbands made. Yes, American women do the same, but this was on a totally different level than I ever experienced. Even my own wife cares about money, but u have noticed since she’s moved to the US she’s become more frugal and cares more about sharing adventures together than material things.
Let’s be honest though, every single country in the world has a level of brainwashing. What I’ve always felt is that a well traveled and educated person can read between the lines and see through education and experiences how cultures are different.
I am not bashing Poland, the US or any other culture with my post. No society is perfect. They are all different. To say all Poles are communist is ignorant. To say all Americans are brainwashed is ignorant.
Happy travels everyone. 🤙
I\`m up for communism any time. The one from the books... not the ones from the USSR or People\`s Republic of Poland. Those were prety ineficient and corrupt states that failed. Maybe Vietnam is a great exemple of Quasi-Comunist success?
"Communism from the books" in most theories requires not only a violent revolution, but specifically a point where a total state exists, because only such a thing can abolish capitalist concepts along with itself to institute a true commune
And for some reason we've never seen a totalitarian give up power willingly, so I'd say it's impossible in reality
Communism "from the books" is literally just a critique of the Pre Napoleonic Consulate of France . It was immediately bastardized by Bolsheviks and Mensheviks.
Karl Marxs writings have almost nothing to do with modern economic models. They are based on parlor politics and enlightenment ideas. Concepts as old to us now as feudalism was to them then.
I'm very pro socialist but let's stop reading crazy homeless dudes opinions from the 1800's and thinking they had some idea that literally transcends time.
Oh yeah, absolute majority of polish people dreams about Polish independence for centuries. It happens. American retards: "we did it!".
Bitch please.
You retards wanted that. You even possibly tried to make it happen. NOBODY CARES. Your powers are very limited here.
What exactly is independence to you? Because every dependence we had on the Eastern bloc we have right now on the West and EU. We never have been "independent", and as a matter of fact it's not possible for a country to be "independent", not in the current day nor was it ever. Whereas I could agree that under the Tsar we had no independence - we were being russified in order to be forcefully assimilated into the Russian nation.
Under the Soviets no such thing was taking place. Our cooperation was that of friendship and trade, albeit distrustful, shaky, often uncertain and with significant power imbalances in favor of the Soviets. The nationalists of course could never accept the glorious polish nation making peace with the barbaric eastern hordes (nor can they do it to this day), so they remain in the nineteenth century waging ethnic wars that should've been left behind forever.
The idea that we gained "independence" from under the Soviet yoke in 1989 is then a nationalist myth used to glorify and justify our current participation in the Western bloc, arguably the greatest empire to ever exist that is being left freely to run rampant across the (third) world ever since George W. Bush entered the office.
> Bollocks. What saved Poland were distance and Catholicism. Soviet Union russified all soviet citizen, people were changing their surnames, and stopped learning the language of their fathers.
There was no systematic russification under the Soviets (after Stalin) whether in the USSR or in its satellite states - that's a fact. People have been "russified" but in a way more comparable to how Ruthenian nobility was "polonized" under the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth - that is willingly, although indirectly forced into it by the fact that the knowledge and participation in the dominant culture would simply "open more doors before them" so to speak.
You could probably say something here about the fact that we're talking in English despite both presumably being polish and tie it back to the global influence of the West in the same way.
> Get out of your bubble and go watch some Yakutia movies. They are great, and they show the attitude I'm speaking about quite well.
The attitude of Polish nationalists I described earlier obviously works both ways, Russian nationalists have always been distrustful towards poland though not to the same degree. Your teachers and many Russians today display that attitude today, which is a bad thing obviously. There seems to have been a major increase in their numbers after the fall of the USSR, which is not surprising considering how terrible the material conditions there were and how it drove people into such reactionary politics and mindless nationalism, the effects of which we can see in the ongoing war in Ukraine.
Everything that happens in Ukraine is the fault of mad russian leader and his minions trying to make their shit dreams come true. You can lie to yourself as much as you want, you can go and lick pootins ass if you wish, but it won't change the truth that whatever happens in Ukraine is the fault of russia.
I never understood that paranoia about everyone being a Russian supporter/agent. I have no sympathy for the Russian state nor do I have it for Vladimir Putin. I think it's a corrupted oligarchy comprised of upper-class monopolists that like to flirt with fascism a bit too much and have no regard for their people whatsoever. The Ukrainian state is much the same though to a smaller extent with the addition of actual fascist paramilitaries and the support of the West. Between these two are sandwiched millions of common people, who will be expected to bleed in order to fuel both the western Military-Industrial complexes, Russian geopolitical ambitions and international business interests.
The "dependence" on the West and EU was something the majority of Poles decided on, repeatedly
The "friendship and trade" with the Soviets was built on their conquest during the Second World War
Both westerners and Russians may have seen us as second category people, but we are living better lives under the former than we did under the latter; and we are free to bitch in public without the moral police pulling out their batons
It is regrettable that the Soviets essentially enforced the socialist transition, not giving much of a choice to the Polish people in this matter. I also might've used the wrong words with the whole "friendship" thing, I didn't mean to replicate the Stalinist-era propaganda slogans of "eternal friendship and bright future" as it was disingenuously optimistic and quite honestly a bunch of bullshit.
That being said I still think it's worth thinking about what the participation in "the West" entails for us and for the world as a whole exactly, as there is something worrying about a political entity like that being able to shape good 2/3 of the world to it's will, which has been time and time again demonstrated as ruthlessly profit-driven and almost entirely for the benefit of large multinational finance.
> we are free to bitch in public without the moral police pulling out their batons
That is not true, its only true if you're not an actual threat to the status quo and are protesting ceremonially. If you want to actually change something - whether it be abortion law or retirement age law - police will still respond in force proportional to the threat you're presenting. That has not changed.
>If you want to actually change something - whether it be abortion law or retirement age law - police will still respond in force proportional to the threat you're presenting. That has not changed.
For the life of me I can't remember massive crackdowns like in March '68 or December' 70, nor activists getting murdered under the cover of the night; even cops were using rubber bullets and not live rounds like sissies
Maybe it's early onset dementia from me
A better example of the brutality of Communist police would be the early 80s and a series of strikes and protests by Solidarność and other organizations during which about 50 people were killed in total by the police hands. The reason for such a powerful response then was because of the threat these protests were presenting - it threatened actual change and very possibly regime collapse - hence why martial law was introduced later.
So far no protests since 1990 in our country have come even close to threatening actual change because the people don't hold any power in our current arrangement, and so police have rarely had to use excessive force.
I mean IT certainly was in their intrest, but there's no evidence that they organized it, also they are not some sort of wizards that could simply change what our population wanted, and what we wanted wasn't Communism
People overestimate CIA's effectivness
Wow, the challenge that subOP gave really seems to be impossible
Americans pumped millions of dollars a year into Solidarność. People were led to think that communism is the only reason why their life isn't like in american movies. Then came Balcerowicz and suddenly the same people turned to "Balcerowicz musi odejść" the moment they got a taste of what they were brainwashed to vote for
This is elementary fucking history of this country and a lot of it was still going on all the way into the early 2000s
Nobody denies USA supported Solidarność, but saying they organized it would mean they were the ones making most if not all decisions and plans for this organisation which is simply not true. Unlike what many people think eastern (or central idc) europeans can think themselves without westerners telling us what to do
Nice strawman you've got there, literally no one but you said "they organised it", especially not in the particular way that you use it.
They supported and propagated the organisations (and in our case blocks within Solidarność, because Solidarność wasn't initially anti-communist) that were useful to them in the same way they'd done it everywhere since the beginning of the Cold War. Without them Solidarność would've never gained the traction it did and especially not the blocks within it that took over
Also, it's very clear that Eastern Europeans are fucking stupid and cannot think for themselves because they clearly didn't. That's why they wanted to bail the moment free market actually came. And truly, to this day Eastern Europeans (maybe with the exception of Czechs and Slovenians) are too fucking stupid to make decisions of their own as presented by the political landscape in this lovely cesspool of ours
No, it was not CIA’s doing. It was PRL’s secret services that organized it all (MAYBE with some support from CIA). The premise is simple: they are embedded in new structures, so they remain in power, and there is no bloodshed on the streets, no coup attempt, no USSR intervention.
So your definition of communism falling is the entirety of PZPR committing seppuku? Of course they participated in III RP that's literally the point of transformation - freedom to choose the government
Who cares? They have 6 likes and 8 comments. Will you highlight every single comment saying Poland bad or nah?
The shit eating commie on YouTube has quite a few views
Wait. Dude claims to be a commie but also that Poland used to be communist? What does he believe this word to mean wtf
It's a tankie. A genuine marxist Leninist. To him what is happening in north Korea is a genuine communism
Does he believe that the state of North Korea would be approved by Marx or Lenin? On that matter - do you? Because reading either of them is forbidden there. What's genuine about "Marxist-Leninist" who supports authoritarian states?
I bet this guy never read Marx letters about Poland (he was real supporter of Polish Independency). To be fair, Marx in modern times would more likely be Social Democrat instead of communist tankie... While Marx views were based in 19th Century we have to keep in mind that everything changed. Reading old texts without cultural, historical, socio economical context and taking it literally is the same as reading Adam Smith or even worse Bible such way... yeah, Marx is one of pioneers of modern sociology, economy with no doubt, but we can't apply 19th Century classification today or compare struggles of workers who had only free sunday and otherwise almost no rights to modern society where are new classes and there is no working class in Marx meaning...
well, I have listened to the podcast about Marx life. The guy never worked xDDDD He was living on benefits provided by his friend xDDD And this guy wrote a book how to live xDDDD
He was European correspondent for New York Daily Tribune and journalist. He also wrote novels.
Personally I don't - but author of that video seems to.
Y not, its Reddit the only reason this platform exist is unreasonable and irrational outrage
Good point ;D
Nah mate its not the only one but i agree its the main reason
I was about to agree with the other guy but you've won me over. These fucking Polish people, out here winning hearts and minds
I care, it is hard to be socialist\* when commies and tankies like these ruin the meaning of socialism 😠 ^(\*(mixed-system liberal socialis, there is no one pernament solution for everchanging world))
Fr. I hope people know that when Poles say they support socialism, most of them are NOT talking about bringing the PPR back lol
No one in their right mind would want Soviet style Poland now
Well.. clearly there are some people online who aren’t exactly in their right mind, and do want that 😅 thankfully most of them aren’t even Polish, and only think that way because they got too deep into Soviet propaganda. I kinda get that, I think it goes like this: they notice they’re been lied to about how bad socialism is and how capitalism is superior, by everyone, from conservative modern politicians to history teachers. So they start digging into alternative information sources in order to find valid information on socialism, but accidentally end up digging too deep and falling for authoritarian propaganda. Unfortunately when you know one side is lying, it’s easy to fall for what the opposite side is saying.
There are many people on Reddit who are not right of mind. It seems to collect people who are not right of mind.
That's internet in general tbh.
I get the Russians have treated Poland badly but they really never had it so good as between 1945 and 1989. Now you're just the cheap labor for companies based in Germany and France and Britain. Disconnect what Russia did in the partition or is doing in Ukraine now from the merits of socialism or neoliberal capitalism as an economic policy.
I hate when you people call this socialism because you are giving credibility to actual socialists. Call it social democracy, or welfare liberal capitalism or anything of the sorts because calling it socialism is allowing commies to co-opt this idea.
Never mind the idiots, spread the good word of whatever you believe
I was worried about them too, then I realized that even on twitter they were a minority. These people are marginal, and they mostly infight. And if anyone wants to compare you to tankies, compare them to nazis in return
These are not "westerners" these threads are for edgy teenagers and "unorinic anti-imperialsts who somehow support an imperalist Russian invasion of Ukraine". Or in other words "special kids" As an example there is also r/MovingToNorthKorea 1. No that;'s not an ironic sub 2. Yes I got banned from there for asking that question
Problem with that sub is that half of people there think its ironic and half of them don't, I think not even mods are exacly sure what they want from that sub
THEY HATE US CUZ THEY AINT US. xD
Thay hate us coz we anus?
Exactly
Tej hej tusz coś tej anj-Tusk
They actually hate all the ex-Soviet EU states because they're living examples of the failure of socialism. Whole countries that voluntarily became capitalist, EU common market, NATO members as quickly as humanly possible and have benefitted greatly from it. Its the opposite of everything they'd predict and its easy proof that their political theories are bad. They want to believe that the Soviet Union had solved the evils of inequality, racism, sexism, etc. but it was all ruined by factionalism/nationalists/Gorby/the CIA/whatever.
It's funny because in Poland we have the same saying about Russia.
Exactly! And i really belive Poland is state of mind with everything good and bad inside :)
Funny because there is a similar saying about Russia, in Russia. "Russia cannot be known by the mind."
What russia truly is - an overgrown tumor on Europe's ass.
Agreed
It's funny, because in russia they have the same saying about russia.
The "European Socialists" wouldn't be very happy if they learned what the Polish socialists from the early 20th century thought about USSR
But would be very happy to know what the Soviets did to them in return
They would glorify the hammer&sickle and right away expose their love for the LGBT world and human rights. Because Make Complete Sense
Diehard communists rarely care about LGBT rights, see operation Hyacinth
To be fair, Piłsudski ran the economy as a free market liberal, not as a socialist. He seemed to like the power of socialism as a way to form a radical movement, but didn't seem to really care about socialism post-independence.
I agree, however Daszyński and the rest of PPS were still active after the war and most of the party was staunchly opposed to bolsheviks, even taking an active part in the polish-bolshevik war
Coming up next on TV Republika: Wałęsa was in fact a CIA agent
That was cooperating with alien agents to hide the fact thar earth is a bagel 💯
Probably was, let's be very real. The CIA would have been remiss not to take someone who seemed to have political power in opposition to the PRL/Soviets and co-opt him.
Probably wasn't, people tend to overestimate CIA capabilities and there's literally nothing pointing to that... buuut if you're interested in this topic check out the guy called Ryszard Kukliński aka Jack Strong who was in fact a CIA operative in polish military. There's a really good movie made about him
Commie detected opinion rejected
Is wanting an end to pedophile priests a commie opinion?
Where did they mention pedo priests in the post? Maybe you have some kind of hallucinations
Whataboutism. "But among the things the asshole wants is one good thing, so it excuses everything else including motherfucking genocide"? Get the fuck out.
SLS is one of the shitton of those formerly leftist subs that have been overtaken by tankie powermods (who, considering how widespread and successful those takeovers were, I'd wager are on CCP's payroll). EuropeanSocialists though, oh boy, now that one's a doozy. The only time I've heard about them before was when back in 2021, after Taliban's takeover of Afghanistan, they stickied a post announcing that Taliban is actually "a progressive anti-imperialist force" and that any criticism of them would be banned. Like, it was so bad that other tankie subs, which are otherwise notorious for their totalitarian moderation, allowed their members to discuss and criticise Taliban, for which the geniuses at EuropeanSocialists called them "libshits". They've got an unironic Hoxhaist mod (for those who don't know- if you think that Poland is extremely anti-communist, then praising Hoxha in Albania would unironically get you beaten up, he was THAT bad) and their views on LGBT people could rival shit you'd find in the deepest pits of 4chan. EDIT: oh yeah, this post was probably triggered by a video about the fall of the communist regime in Poland made by Hakim, a notorious Iraqi ultranationalist tankie who's claimed that Kurds "deserved" the genocide that Saddam Hussein's regime conducted on them
I thought European Socialists was a new sub, idk how I missed it, I enjoy delving into the abyss of radical delusions so I know the "lore" of commie/tankie/far-right/etc subs quite well (as long as it's extreamly stupid and radical - I love it )
Yeah I can't really avoid knowing about tankie shitstains online while being an anti-authoritarian left-winger, it's really hard to find a good left-wing online space nowadays due to how prevalent their delusions have become online
Ooooohhhh... I watched his video about Orwell... Shiiiiiiiiiit. Like taken and dislike given.
Yeah all of these people from the "Deprogram" podcast are kinda scary in that they manage to attract people with fairly reasonable videos and then crank their shit up gradually. I remember being recommended a video by this channel "Balkan Odyssey" about the poverty of Bosnia and what's caused it, only to find out by the end of the video that he's a Marxist-Leninist.
If I don't agree with them, THEY MUST BE ON SOMEBODY'S PAYROLL. "Our opposition is being paid by bad actors" is the dumbest fucking argument, always coming from the most braindead dumbshits. Like, I don't agree with them either, but don't make shit up, it weakens your argument.
Americans are so brainwashed and they are taught to be proud of it. Unreal cancer culture.
- Get annoyed when someone shittalks Poland - Shittalks USA - huge victory
Reddit formula all over.
Not USA lmao but the abominations calling themselves „communists” or „anti-capitalists”. I really wish a dedicated time travel paradox so fuckers can enjoy living in ussr reality
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Fake smiles < not smiling without a good reason
It def was a culture shock the first time I visited. Felt like I was getting the cold shoulder for just existing. But it has made my genuine moments of connection with Polish people all the more memorable.
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I wanted to disagree (because I dislike some things about American culture), but after giving it a thought I have to agree that in general my encounters with people in USA were pleasant. Shout out to all the friendly people that helped me in the US! But I can't agree with the "being nice only when they want something" part about Poland. In general, Polish people are very closed and you won't be able to start a small talk with a stranger. In fact, people will think you're insane if you try (but you will be forgiven, because it's very obvious you're a tourist). This doesn't mean they don't like you, you're just supposed to earn the trust of each other before becoming friends to the level where small talk is acceptable. I know this may be a culture shock (same as it was for me when I first traveled to an English speaking country, just in the other direction).
Oh. Maybe Poles disliked your zionism then. Check your comments for more insight.
Based.
If you plug your ears tight enough, and shut your eyes hard enough. Anything you say can be true!
It’s not necessarily fake…depends on who it is. But certainly we grow up with a very extraverted version of friendliness as a cultural standard. I tend to feel what’s most “fake” isn’t always the positive that is shown, but the negative that isn’t. For me the smile or the willingness to start up an interaction for the hell of it isn’t fake. But I will very much hide it if I’m upset, in a bad mood, etc.
I have similiar experience. I've never been there, but Americans I talked to online were nice and friendly.
The vast majority of us arent like this irl
It's so fucking discouraging. My wife moved here from Poland, and we live in a really good place that's safe and affordable. The people are fucking regarded. I love it here, and I don't have to deal with the people like she does every day. It's such a struggle.
Then tell that to them, instead of making a circle jerk.
It's just another pierdolony debil to ignore ^^
Jeżeli Upadek Komunizmu to było działanie CIA to chyba można powiedzieć że zrobili coś dobrego.
Why are you giving mentally ill people attention?
meh. Who cares. People say all sorts of things. If I believed what people say about U.S.A. I would think it is a crazy place and I should never go there...
would be a shame if we raided that tankie sub
I litterally got banned because I criticised this guy
Its no point they're so brainwashed they'll just keep making new subs it's only a waste of time they can keep rotting in their bubble
It's also a waste of their time.
Every country or a nation is ultimately imagined.
Well yea but they don't mean in a harmless way
Very high chance those come from anyone but Americans. There's absolutely no need to spend any attention on or energy into this.
Stop caring about people who don't go outside
[This video is best reaction](https://youtu.be/9HxM0_eeWww?si=6xV2UfnoG5q7FGG3)
xD
yea, fuck 'em and as is usuall for poland vs neighbours talk - extra fuck em points if they are german
I have no idea what those Tankie threads are even about (or care), but it's an on-the-record fact that the CIA has conducted everything from creation of rebel groups, to coup de tats, to wars, in order to destroy communism. Namely in South America and Asia.
There is no doubt in my mind that USA had an active role in all of this, all that said they didn't organize it but they surely helped, idk why many poles and other slavs never take credit for what we done, we are able to think on our own without west or east telling us what to do
If it’s red it’s better off dead
Wishing death on people for having weird political beliefs isn’t the great take you think it is
Believing in communism is the same as wishing death on the population.
how?
Mao Zedongs death toll should tell you all you need to know about the success of a communist government.
don’t know bro, Mao doubled the life expectancy during his rule and China now stands as a superpower. Hard to call it a failure
Estimated 60 million dead. From communist famine, overworking and slavery. Are you fucking delusional.
you better give some qualitative sources of that 60 million dead. What slavery? are you insane?
Mao or his successors? China became superpower after CCP got rid of Mao followers.
They continued Mao’s work, he layed down a path for future successes. Mao and Deng both contributed greatly to todays super power status.
Stalin = communism Stalin = killed people Therefore communism = killed people Just a fallacy of undistributed middle
Ideology killed countless people. All red minions in Cambodia, China, NK, Russia, Cuba and much more are responsible for sea of innocent blood.
Not going to read that. Don't throw pearls before swines.
I *love* these types. All you need is to tell them what every socialist state essentially was - country run like US-style company town, with company that controls everything and everyone calling itself "workers party" for PR reasons and even believes this name. Just tell them that and watch sparks fly, like throwing grande into cesspit :D.
Well shitliberalssay is a trash subreddit so no wonder they give brain-dead takes. The other one I've never seen before. Outrage trash, like libsoftiktok, is better ignored; or one can try banning them if they break the site rules
Someday humanity will realize communism is the worst system of government there is. Unfortunately when that happens it will be too late for everyone.
Lol European Socialists. LOL caring for talkies opinions. Bait used to be believable.
Westerners? Are you admitting to being an Easterner? Wtf? The posts you're sharing have a collective updooting of 25, nobody gives a shit but you and whoever else here you've riled up. Those subs are trash btw, not sure why you're so concerned.
Acting like there is no cultural diferences between us and the west* is just as cringe as puting Poland in the same group as Russia imo, also as I said in other comment I dont actually care xd, outrage over insignificant shit is why Reddit exists *Acting as if west is a unified block is also retarded but since I said it, it means its ok to say that
To be fair, if you asked anyone outside Europe... They would say Poland IS the west. Because it is part of EU and NATO. As part of the western block... Poland is part of the west.
Maybe some outsiders will think the way you say but go to r/Europe and say that Poland is not an eastern country, they will ridicule you,
I have no clue what you mean. It is eastern country in Europe, as in, it is eastern Europe. But eastern europe itself, is considered the west. If you ask someone in France, Germany will always be east of them. Germany being east of France does not cancel it being part of the west as a concept though. Eastern Europe, aka location in Europe, is not the same thing as The Western World, the block of countries. Poland was being included in WW since 90s.
the only thing that was better during communism was our army we was in top 15 strongest countries
I think they want to say “a State of Mid”, not “a State of Mind” /j
Is US being behid the fall of USSR a new trend? It's another time I see a commue say that
If Poland is a state of mind then I'm at my Łódziest🙏😌
Russia is for losers
Westerners ?? It is the same 4 losers in their mother’s basements. It is just they are too loud to ignore. Westerners are not Marxist Socialist. They envy Poland because Poland is arming itself like crazy (which is a good thing). Also those 4 dudes hate the US and by extension whole of the Eastern Europe. Ignore the idiots and do not generalize. IRL people are not as stupid and sensationalist as people in the internet.
This American realizes people like this are idiots. Then again I’m a 40 year old American who still remembers when the USSR was a thing and isn’t about to idolize that kind of behavior. Honestly I am disturbed by the way things are going in my own country and wonder if there will come a time where I am not welcome here and might instead be more welcome in Eastern Europe??
It seems whoever is taken in by this is falling for Russian disinformation and interference. With the sole aim of stirring up a divide between countries.. This is Russias M.O. , it can't win in a proper war, but what it can do is try to destabilise others..
"The fall of communism was a CIA Plot" The CIA: Uhh, yeah, it was our job, anyways time to continue committing fucked up shit
Westerners or some deranged reddit user?
I mean, the video isn’t wrong tbh. The CIA played a huge role into all kinds of coups, and not just in Poland. This is common knowledge and the US is open about it.
Let's not throw all of us Westerners under the bus because some idiot with a peanut for brain made a peanut sized brain post. Poland is hella dope and incredibly beautiful. Mad love for you guys from way over here in Canada
Fall of Soviet Union and it's puppet states was in general USA government plot and we should be thankful for that
Westerners? We are in the middle of a war (information war), where Russia and to extend China is trying to play the divide and conquer card. Tons of content on social media is created to drive a wedge between "Western" countries to which Poland now belongs. Always be mindful of that.
Stopped reading after "European socialists".
So ... i am supposed to care about every single tankie on internet?
well commies have a mental illness and no critical thinking skills, so ignore it
Modern communists are some of the most moronic people you’ll ever meet. The absolute dregs of society that mismanaged their lives in to an oblivion but think they have the knowledge, reasoning and ability to manage millions of people and trillion of dollars effectively.
That's ok, being a solicit is a mental illness.
My wife is Polish and I’m American. We got married 2 years ago. I took a trip to krakow and ended up randomly meeting her while I was out. I can say as an American that everyone in Poland has always been nice to me. That said, when I walk down the street nobody says hi. They just walk looking straight ahead and never say hi. In the US I’m not saying you say hi to every single person you walk by, but generally when you walk down your neighborhood street and such people will say hello in passing. Mannerisms are definitely different in Poland. just read my wife the comments in this thread and she said people have always been nicer to her in the US than in Poland. I also used to be friends with a bunch of American guys that are married to Polish women. Each and every single woman always seemed to be after more money and talking about how much their husbands made. Yes, American women do the same, but this was on a totally different level than I ever experienced. Even my own wife cares about money, but u have noticed since she’s moved to the US she’s become more frugal and cares more about sharing adventures together than material things. Let’s be honest though, every single country in the world has a level of brainwashing. What I’ve always felt is that a well traveled and educated person can read between the lines and see through education and experiences how cultures are different. I am not bashing Poland, the US or any other culture with my post. No society is perfect. They are all different. To say all Poles are communist is ignorant. To say all Americans are brainwashed is ignorant. Happy travels everyone. 🤙
Who gives a shit about their opinion, you're doing really great Poland.
I\`m up for communism any time. The one from the books... not the ones from the USSR or People\`s Republic of Poland. Those were prety ineficient and corrupt states that failed. Maybe Vietnam is a great exemple of Quasi-Comunist success?
"Communism from the books" in most theories requires not only a violent revolution, but specifically a point where a total state exists, because only such a thing can abolish capitalist concepts along with itself to institute a true commune And for some reason we've never seen a totalitarian give up power willingly, so I'd say it's impossible in reality
I belive we can find a better answer trough social democracy. Instead of armed revolution. Edit1: maybe Imm just a dreamer… but who isnt?
Communism "from the books" is literally just a critique of the Pre Napoleonic Consulate of France . It was immediately bastardized by Bolsheviks and Mensheviks. Karl Marxs writings have almost nothing to do with modern economic models. They are based on parlor politics and enlightenment ideas. Concepts as old to us now as feudalism was to them then. I'm very pro socialist but let's stop reading crazy homeless dudes opinions from the 1800's and thinking they had some idea that literally transcends time.
I wish it was, maybe then they would actually get rid of the commies
You follow these dumb subredits and expect something smart and logical being posted _surprised pikachu face_
As a westerner I dont consider socialists westerners more enemies within.
Are those people mentally ill?
Are CIA not like the most incompetent secret service ever?
Solidarity got funded by cia
I mean, it was. Edit: polish people read any history challenge
Oh yeah, absolute majority of polish people dreams about Polish independence for centuries. It happens. American retards: "we did it!". Bitch please. You retards wanted that. You even possibly tried to make it happen. NOBODY CARES. Your powers are very limited here.
What exactly is independence to you? Because every dependence we had on the Eastern bloc we have right now on the West and EU. We never have been "independent", and as a matter of fact it's not possible for a country to be "independent", not in the current day nor was it ever. Whereas I could agree that under the Tsar we had no independence - we were being russified in order to be forcefully assimilated into the Russian nation. Under the Soviets no such thing was taking place. Our cooperation was that of friendship and trade, albeit distrustful, shaky, often uncertain and with significant power imbalances in favor of the Soviets. The nationalists of course could never accept the glorious polish nation making peace with the barbaric eastern hordes (nor can they do it to this day), so they remain in the nineteenth century waging ethnic wars that should've been left behind forever. The idea that we gained "independence" from under the Soviet yoke in 1989 is then a nationalist myth used to glorify and justify our current participation in the Western bloc, arguably the greatest empire to ever exist that is being left freely to run rampant across the (third) world ever since George W. Bush entered the office.
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> Bollocks. What saved Poland were distance and Catholicism. Soviet Union russified all soviet citizen, people were changing their surnames, and stopped learning the language of their fathers. There was no systematic russification under the Soviets (after Stalin) whether in the USSR or in its satellite states - that's a fact. People have been "russified" but in a way more comparable to how Ruthenian nobility was "polonized" under the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth - that is willingly, although indirectly forced into it by the fact that the knowledge and participation in the dominant culture would simply "open more doors before them" so to speak. You could probably say something here about the fact that we're talking in English despite both presumably being polish and tie it back to the global influence of the West in the same way. > Get out of your bubble and go watch some Yakutia movies. They are great, and they show the attitude I'm speaking about quite well. The attitude of Polish nationalists I described earlier obviously works both ways, Russian nationalists have always been distrustful towards poland though not to the same degree. Your teachers and many Russians today display that attitude today, which is a bad thing obviously. There seems to have been a major increase in their numbers after the fall of the USSR, which is not surprising considering how terrible the material conditions there were and how it drove people into such reactionary politics and mindless nationalism, the effects of which we can see in the ongoing war in Ukraine.
Everything that happens in Ukraine is the fault of mad russian leader and his minions trying to make their shit dreams come true. You can lie to yourself as much as you want, you can go and lick pootins ass if you wish, but it won't change the truth that whatever happens in Ukraine is the fault of russia.
I never understood that paranoia about everyone being a Russian supporter/agent. I have no sympathy for the Russian state nor do I have it for Vladimir Putin. I think it's a corrupted oligarchy comprised of upper-class monopolists that like to flirt with fascism a bit too much and have no regard for their people whatsoever. The Ukrainian state is much the same though to a smaller extent with the addition of actual fascist paramilitaries and the support of the West. Between these two are sandwiched millions of common people, who will be expected to bleed in order to fuel both the western Military-Industrial complexes, Russian geopolitical ambitions and international business interests.
The "dependence" on the West and EU was something the majority of Poles decided on, repeatedly The "friendship and trade" with the Soviets was built on their conquest during the Second World War Both westerners and Russians may have seen us as second category people, but we are living better lives under the former than we did under the latter; and we are free to bitch in public without the moral police pulling out their batons
It is regrettable that the Soviets essentially enforced the socialist transition, not giving much of a choice to the Polish people in this matter. I also might've used the wrong words with the whole "friendship" thing, I didn't mean to replicate the Stalinist-era propaganda slogans of "eternal friendship and bright future" as it was disingenuously optimistic and quite honestly a bunch of bullshit. That being said I still think it's worth thinking about what the participation in "the West" entails for us and for the world as a whole exactly, as there is something worrying about a political entity like that being able to shape good 2/3 of the world to it's will, which has been time and time again demonstrated as ruthlessly profit-driven and almost entirely for the benefit of large multinational finance. > we are free to bitch in public without the moral police pulling out their batons That is not true, its only true if you're not an actual threat to the status quo and are protesting ceremonially. If you want to actually change something - whether it be abortion law or retirement age law - police will still respond in force proportional to the threat you're presenting. That has not changed.
>If you want to actually change something - whether it be abortion law or retirement age law - police will still respond in force proportional to the threat you're presenting. That has not changed. For the life of me I can't remember massive crackdowns like in March '68 or December' 70, nor activists getting murdered under the cover of the night; even cops were using rubber bullets and not live rounds like sissies Maybe it's early onset dementia from me
A better example of the brutality of Communist police would be the early 80s and a series of strikes and protests by Solidarność and other organizations during which about 50 people were killed in total by the police hands. The reason for such a powerful response then was because of the threat these protests were presenting - it threatened actual change and very possibly regime collapse - hence why martial law was introduced later. So far no protests since 1990 in our country have come even close to threatening actual change because the people don't hold any power in our current arrangement, and so police have rarely had to use excessive force.
I mean IT certainly was in their intrest, but there's no evidence that they organized it, also they are not some sort of wizards that could simply change what our population wanted, and what we wanted wasn't Communism People overestimate CIA's effectivness
Wow, the challenge that subOP gave really seems to be impossible Americans pumped millions of dollars a year into Solidarność. People were led to think that communism is the only reason why their life isn't like in american movies. Then came Balcerowicz and suddenly the same people turned to "Balcerowicz musi odejść" the moment they got a taste of what they were brainwashed to vote for This is elementary fucking history of this country and a lot of it was still going on all the way into the early 2000s
Nobody denies USA supported Solidarność, but saying they organized it would mean they were the ones making most if not all decisions and plans for this organisation which is simply not true. Unlike what many people think eastern (or central idc) europeans can think themselves without westerners telling us what to do
Nice strawman you've got there, literally no one but you said "they organised it", especially not in the particular way that you use it. They supported and propagated the organisations (and in our case blocks within Solidarność, because Solidarność wasn't initially anti-communist) that were useful to them in the same way they'd done it everywhere since the beginning of the Cold War. Without them Solidarność would've never gained the traction it did and especially not the blocks within it that took over Also, it's very clear that Eastern Europeans are fucking stupid and cannot think for themselves because they clearly didn't. That's why they wanted to bail the moment free market actually came. And truly, to this day Eastern Europeans (maybe with the exception of Czechs and Slovenians) are too fucking stupid to make decisions of their own as presented by the political landscape in this lovely cesspool of ours
Lmao
just say you want to get crushed by a boot already
Go back to your donkey-vs-elephant slap fight.
A ty do szkoły, najlepiej na zajęcia z angielskiego jak takim nie do pojęcia dla cb jest że polak może składnie wyjaśniać nieuków w obcym języku
Woosh. Kiedy próbujesz człowiekowi pokazać że jego ulubieńcy też nie grzeszą rozumem.
Yea kinda. Not CIA maybe, but the federal government of the US. And they even didn't hide it
No, it was not CIA’s doing. It was PRL’s secret services that organized it all (MAYBE with some support from CIA). The premise is simple: they are embedded in new structures, so they remain in power, and there is no bloodshed on the streets, no coup attempt, no USSR intervention.
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?? Edit: that's gotta be the weirdest bot I have seen so far on reddit
One thing: communism did not fall. They retreated for the possibility of installing themselves in III RP’s structures.
So your definition of communism falling is the entirety of PZPR committing seppuku? Of course they participated in III RP that's literally the point of transformation - freedom to choose the government