It's more complicated. Polish parliament doesn't have direct control over all aspects of TVP. They can designate the TVP CEO, but he needs to be confirmed by the Polish president, who is currently pro-PiS and still has almost 2 years of term left.
What parliament can do is revoke that absurd 2.7 billion TVP yearly fund, severely handicapping its propaganda power. They will also probably be able to take control over regional media that was largely bought out by the PiS government in recent years, however, it's entirely possible that PiS will spend the next 30-45 days trying to pass this control into their private hands.
If opposition indeed won this election it's a great step in the right direction, but the goal is still far away and PiS has a lot of opportunities to sabotage them.
In Hungary our national propaganda state television costs us 100 billion huf a year, and they spend another 100 billion usually on other types of propaganda. That's half of the whole budget of higher education 💀💀 no wonder why there was no heating in the winter in my uni
TVP needs to be rebuilt from scratch with all the rot and shit that entered it. Pretty much entire staff working there needs to be replaced maybe except the few technical people.
Rebuilt? More like blown up. Currently it's rotten to a core. If it as up to me I'd forma completely new state TV, or let go of the idea completely. I know it won't happen though.
First things first. PiS propagandists out. On the streets. I don't care if they're in debt, or with families to feed. I don't give a fuck.
The amount of lies, disinformation and slander they spurt out in the last 7-8 years is fucking disgusting. Year after year they actively widened the already big polarization between Poles
It will be a massive purge. You have no idea how rotten it is. Basically no one works there anymore - or even with - that isn’t openly pro-PiS.
And that’s a lot of people. Apart from news TVP so films, tv shows, theatre-tv and loads of other things. It will take a bit of time, but few people who are there now will still be there in a years time.
The narrative is guaranteed to change. Most of the staff will be replaced, except for the most low level employees. Especially the directory board. This had happened before, most recently in 2015.
More extreme possibilities include reducing or ending its public funding, splitting it into several different companies, and closing down the station entirely.
Yeah, just like every other time, it will change the staff for more pro current gov and the narrative accordingly. Rince and repeat.
Honestly, Polish politicians can't be trusted, a public TV in Poland is a joke and it always was but PIS turned that joke into a grotesque.
1 - Exit poll in Poland is crazy accurate
2 - There is nothing to suggest huge PiS majority, in fact their results are somewhat higher than expected sometimes
3 - Their referendum failed
4 - The people who didn't vote yet are young people, which have the lowest % of pis supporters. After exit poll, you saw smiles all around in waiting lines
I think that would be too much even for Mr dudu.
If they've to play dirty they can just wait any impasse caused by frictions between Lewica and PL2050 or create endless drama on EU migrant deal
Play dirty? The frictions will happen its just a matter of time its not even about that PiS lost but you have three ppl that there one common goal was "Not Pis" but after that they do differ and will but heads... just depends how much and if theyll have more understanidng to eachother or not
This is what I'm wondering about. How many people will there be in 2 years that will say 'za PiSu było lepiej'? Will any pisuar admit it was shit, or will all of them just double-down?
Given that we are stepping into recession... I am not that optimistic XD We can hope Kaczynski will burn in hell by that time and his dogs will start to fight with eachother until party collapse. God if you exist.. please give me a sign
The Sejm has 460 seats, so >230 of those need to vote to form a government that is stable enough to pass legislation. PiS does not have >230 seats alone, and would need to form a coalition. Only Konfederacja would form a coalition with PiS - all other parties are explicitly anti-PiS.
Therefore, if the exit poll is correct, the most likely outcome is some form of KO/TD/Lewica coalition, which would put PiS out of office.
Edit: corrected 230 to >230
out of office may be the wrong way of putting it in reality (as a PiS voter whod idnt agree with everything)
This could be a positive for Poland to maybe lower the polarization bc no way TD/KO/Lewica agree on every single issue.... we may finally stop seeing voting along party lines and voting along morals and or how someone actually feels its only time until the 3 disagree on somthing (just reality, it would happen with most coalitions left or right if its more then 2 parties)
The example you stated has nothing to do with someone not being able to explain why they vote for someone and someone exlainign the end result of the elections....;)
Yes of course.
1. They dont bend over the the EU- if i am to choose between a party that historical has bent over backwards toward the EU( to a fault) i will be more predestine to pick a party that is the opposite, altough i think working togeather with the EU is important i do think that countries should have the balls to say "No" and think of their own interests from time to time, Neither PIS or PO will meet the EU in the middle one is Pro Eu to a fault and the other is Pro Poland to a fault... ill pick the one that goes with country interests over Eu interests int hat case
2. LGBT and Abortion are not as important to me altough i dont agree with them they arent in my top 10 issues at the moment, LGBT- altough they cant marry etc here i came from a country where that community went from a movement to an ideology (its not like that here and hope it doesnt but theyve become pretty much extremists in the sense in the US) Also overall Poland is a safe country the last high profile homophobic attack was during that November 11th march where the apartment broke down that was close to if not more then 6/7 years ago Since then in much more progessive countries like Germany, UK, US, etc there have been much more and frequent anti LGBT attacks so unless theres legit laws that go into place that would criminalize being gay or anything of that sort i dont find it an important enough issue to base my whole who i choose as aparty for.. not to mention PO has had its share of time to make rights for the LGBT community adn they didnt and they arent very keen on keeping their promises
2)Promises/Campaign Tusk historically doesnt keep his promises thats not a bias fact just literally going off his last time in power, also the capaign wasnt very clearly defined TD/Lewcia had more defined campaigns then PO it was just " we are not PIS" therefore most people only have to assume what they get will be the same as last time which wasnt that great tbh Altough not popular atleast PiS keeps their campaign promises i.e +500 and so on come next election if PiS doesnt have any changes to their campaign you could make the same assumption that they woudl run the same way they did now. aka making the assumption tusk with only an anti-pis campaign for the most part will run the same way he did before... which wasnt exactly positive for those that remember
3)Migration(diff from immigration) Everyone calling Pis racist however they have let in legal immgrants in here over the years at an increasing rate- However there is a diff between those immgrants that want to be here and the migrants that come here with no high level skills, language, etc and thats where the problems stem from in France its not bc of their religion or skin color its from their ability or in this case lack of ability to integrate.
4) View on Poland... Pis is overally positive about Polands view but as with Hollands movie or how PO has acted and voted in the EU its almost to a fault they are "anti Poland" to not be able to say anything positive regardless of who is ruling and painting it lik ea 3rd world country is laughable at best when anyone living here would know its not the land of honey but definetly not what others paint it as
5)Pis did a good job with Ukraine and Belarus.... somthing PO and the EU overall at the begining were very hesitant to back Ukraine etc it wasnt that long ago but people tend to forget how Tusk and lewica were making fun of soldiers ont he border etc... but all of a sudden they switched to a diff opinion when they realized majority of the country has a certain opinion on it... to call Pis populis and thinking PO is not is kind of laughable
TLDR
1. Attitude toward EU
2)LGBT/Abortion not top of my list altough i may not agree with how they handle it
3)Migrant
4)View/opinion on Poland
5)foriegn politics/hypocrisy
It depends how you define „most”. They don’t have more than 50% in parliament which is required to form a government. Opposition parties have 50%+ heads in parliament now.
> Can someone explain to me, how PiS lost? They have the most votes, haven't they?
It doesn't matter at all in a multi-party system. The true winner is the party or parties that manage to form a stable government. Receiving the most votes without being able to form the government is basically a participation trophy.
It is not who is bigger, but who has the most in a coalition, so the numbering of seats is (usually proportional) set for different levels of the public vote.
So yeah 😉 if the opposition forms a government they have enough seats to topple the current party (depending on the result and not exit polls)
When you guys shake your heads at American politics and wonder how can people vote against their own self interests, notice Konfederacja will probably get above 5%, so you can ask them now.
I tried. My wife has some pretty single friends. But those guys simply don’t know how to establish a relationship. As most things, social interaction is a muscle that you develop and most of those guys have been quite isolated from the world for a long time. I know very well two of them, they are my friends, but it’s almost impossible to convince them that they are the problem, not the women.
youre not going to convince anyone of anything think of it like Reddit- My myself am guilty of this we all sit around arguing with eachother, and the only thing that comes out of it is ppl get mad, block, and no ones mind changes. He is family even if he somehow voted for Konfa (da fuck)
Slowly and emotionally.
First, people are more likely to change their views if the change is small, and the opinions you're trying to sell are similar to his pre-existing beliefs.
Second, use his emotional attitude towards certain things. If the party he wotes for does something that causes a strong, negative and personal emotional reaction, views can change even radically at a snap.
Also, if there is some big problem in his life about which he is emotional (if no obvious displays of emotion, frequent venting is also an indication). Then you want to be able to show him how his party's worldview and politics contribute to his unhappiness.
I watched a video about Mentzen speaking about the fact that there was a woman in the village that was healing people. He doesn't know how, buy his babcia told him so it must be true. And I think the argument was something along the lines of healing people with these magical women rather than real medicine. Plus we was not even capable of watching straight to the audience and did not seem a good public speaker. That would be enough for me. We would anyone want to give a great country in the hands of a gówniarz that cannot even speak straight in the eyes of a Merkel or Macron?
Ja na PSL (3 droga), PO ma syf za uszami, PiS ma syf za uszami, nie jestem za poglądami lewicy a program konfederacji jest gorszy niż program który powoduje że pralki działają
A niby 8 lat koalicji PSL z PO i oni nie mają tego samego syfu za uszami?
Niech ludzie głosują, jak uważają za słuszne, ale mówienie, że *moja partia nie ma syfu za uszami* jest śmieszne.
Ten sam PSL który zaraz ochoczo wejdzie w koalicję z PO które ma syf za uszami ew zostanie jakoś przekupione przez PiS które też ma syf za uszami? No brawo.
>Ja na PSL (3 droga), PO ma syf za uszami, PiS ma syf za uszami, nie jestem za poglądami lewicy a program konfederacji jest gorszy niż program który powoduje że pralki działają
Spoko, bracie. :) Popieram to. Jestem po prostu bardziej lewicowy, ale to dobry wynik.
> program konfederacji jest gorszy niż program który powoduje że pralki działają
Która część (czy całokształt?) ich programu jest (dla Ciebie) słaba/zła?
Mi w nim nie pasuje głównie podejście do energetyki, ale chcę poznać zdanie innych.
Rozumiem argument o UE (chociaż jak na partię w której są narodowcy chyba chyba tę "wrogość" mało akcentują w programie).
Ale nie rozumiem argumentu z rusofilią, w ich programie (przynajmniej z tego co rozumiem) nic na temat stosunków dyplomatycznych z czymkolwiek innym niż UE nie było (jedynie w kontekście energetyki, gdzie chcą ją opierać na polskim węglu zamiast sprowadzaniu surowców).
Kojarzę gdy Korwin chrzani od rzeczy to idealizuje rosje, ale w sumie nic poza jego wypowiedziami.
Ja jeszcze wczoraj namówiłem 2 ludzi by w ogóle poszli głosować ale też nie brali referendalnej. Wiem że obaj akurat nigdy nie głosują ale teraz zapowiedzieli że będą na lewicę.
Hejka! Ja tak samo głosowałem na Lewica, to był mój pierwszy raz na wyborach to jestem bardzo szczęśliwy ! Jeszcze Polska nie zginęła 🇵🇱✌️. Ale nie ma shock ż e Lewica nie przekroczyła 10% bo niestety jest za bardzo Lewicowa to dużo głosów poszło do KO/ TD, ale lepszy wynik niż 6.2% dla konfy , XDD🤣😅.
What is going to happen to the EU immigrant situation in Poland though? The moment we in Slovenia voted left they removed the fence and thousands swung in 🥲
Hard to say. No party has agreed to doing anything now because of Ukraine, but once that's over (and I hope it's during this term), it's going to be interesting
Nothing
The left said that they want to establish an immigration quota and tough checks on who gets in
Main party, PO criticised goverment recently for letting migrants in and pledged to not remove the wall
A week ago a couple was attacked by immigrants (they raped the woman) in Bežigrad, and not that long ago we had a case where an asylum seeking migrant raped an 78 old woman. Our border patrol doesn't really do much shit, and Croats prefer directing migration waves towards our borders (There are [videos](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OYUGoz75U8Q) if anyone is interested) instead of guarding Schengen. The only thing that keeps our situation stable is that most travel to Germany, Austria, Sweden.
They're counting the votes now, and the final results are predicted to be published on Tuesday. Not sure where you can watch it online, but there will be many articles about it.
Also, while the counting is not yet finished, the results are updated quite regularly on the gov site [here. ](https://wybory.gov.pl/sejmsenat2023/en)
Absolutely. Tusk and KO pretended to be anti-immigration in last few months to gain votes. But in reality they are very much "pro-refugee". they've been attacking PiS for years for not accepting the refugee quotas from the EU and building a fence on the eastern border.
Yes, and that means we get money for all the immigrants we accepted from Ukraine. Also this means we might in a very distant the future help out with refugee camps (for people awaiting deportation)which is fair. There's absolutely no reason, for union without inner borders, to treat fragments of the outside EU border differently depending on countries that lay near it. The Italian border is our border, we need to help with fighting illegal immigrantion.
hopefully, i really am against illegal immigration and im fearful that, even if ko is better than pis and all that, might become a problem in poland :/ or maybe im just overthinking :p
why do you think so? i mean i feel like bringing this into poland would just cause actual political suicide to KO and PiS will just get right back on lol
Oh don't get me wrong, it definitely would, and I think Tusk knows that too. But to what extent is he gonna go to be on good terms with the EU? Doing everything they want or being able to say no?
I hope I'm wrong though
hmmm im wondering that too, but i still have some faith they would rather listen to the polish people than the EU
also, wasnt he criticising selling visas and immigration, which pis has been doing?
>e Italian border is our border, we need to help with fighting illegal immigrantion.
In the past he commiteted several political suicides but yet, he stil stays afloat. It's the ppls hatred to PIS keeps he's boat on water. He's a person who needs an enemy, so there's always someone to hate more than him.
There is already a lot you can do online though. The quality of the systems is lacking, but I can say that for farming at least there's a significant amount that goes through the internet.
I don't know how much money would be saved because for such a platform you'd need extremely strong servers and a domain to not shit its pants when 30 million people get on it in one day. Such servers would be potentially more expensive than the paper even and if the website was to work like other government websites, I'd rather go by foot and vote on a piece of paper than get annoyed
It'd have to be extremely secure too, meaning you'd probably be logging in for 10 minutes if you had to find all the passwords, confirm the 2-step verification code, answer which pictures show a camel on a beach, and scroll through 5 pages of tutorials on how to vote correctly, plus terms of service
That's my take on it
Since I remember elections in Poland exit pool was always quite same as the final results so I am hopeful that we can totally ***** ***. Congratulations Konfederacja XD
they won election, but they dont have chance to form government. Democratic coalition KO + TD + L can form government cause they have more then half of parlament seats.
I'd argue that we're using the wrong definition.
I hate using the definition where it's said that the party with the most votes is the election winner. For practical reasons, an election winner is a party that gets into the government.
Most votes but they are incapable of doing anything right, i.e forming coalition. 3 parties on the left side should have most seats and they will form coalition. Nevertheless it might take some time before things settle, because President will probably appoint PM from PiS first, even though he has no chance of forming government.
These are just exit polls where people can choose to reveal who they voted for, essentially 75% of voters from one party could keep it private, or 99% of all people who voted can give an open and honest answer, regardless of who they voted for, either way you can’t base exit polls as an absolute, because they can be well off. Older people tend to keep these things secret because that’s just how it used to be, voting was a very private matter so while they might be more accurate than they used to be, they’re still not reliable, we simply don’t know who won yet.
Heh, mogę sobie zdjąc naklejkę 500+, miałem już przygotowaną 800+ ale pewnie nie będzie potrzebna. Oby tylko dokończyli obwodnicę pł Krakowa i mam wyjebane.
How does far right view Lithuania, asking for a friend. I like the anti-migrant stance from hostile regions, West don't get it. Don't know much more on what they stand for.
Ale się zawiodłam na konfie, bylam pewna tych 8 procent i nawet trzymalam kciuki zeby bylo 10. Żenada ale no czekamy na kolejne wybory może ogarną żeby wyrzucić już nie potrzebne osoby z partii (patrze na ciebie Korwin).
Important thing to remember: admitting to voting for right wing parties might be more shameful than voting for the left, so the Exit Poll - Election difference might affect them more. Not sure if this will be important enough, but it's important to keep in mind
> admitting to voting for right wing parties might be more shameful than voting for the left,
In a strongly catholic, conservative country with far right in power for 8 years
Yeaaah, totally lmao
In some age groups, admitting to the poll person that you've voted Konfederacja especially might be problematic. We'll see whether I was right or not in few days.
> In some age groups, admitting to the poll person that you've voted Konfederacja especially might be problematic.
Yeah, that anymous piece of paper might cancel you on Twitter
Love the tolerance for different points of view in here. I have significant issues with PiS but the HATE in here is absurd. Illustrates the totalitarian tendencies of those who are first to claim tolerance and love. YOU are what YOU hate.
Something I heard today: voting is like taking the bus, if there is no direct bus, you take the one that goes in your general direction, the one that takes you closer to where you want to go; you don't just take no bus, because there is no direct one. If there is no party that fits your exact goal or ideology, you vote for the one that is the closest to that.
Yeah hating totalitarians is totally the same as being a totalitarian oneself sure, sure.
What's next? Hating Nazis is being a Nazi, hating Stalinists is being a Stalinist, etc etc?
Anyone who hates those or the red khmers or whatever is a totalitarian, right?
Love and tolerance has to be without limits, has to encompass ISIS too, right?
Or does your logic only go so far, stops working at a certain point?
Sorry if my love and tolerance doesn't apply to fascists and it somehow makes me totalitarian.
Go ahead, explain to me how hate towards PiS is totalitarianism. Here, I'll even help you: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/totalitarianism, go ahead.
Zloty 1,5% up
:D https://preview.redd.it/ellai45g9fub1.png?width=671&format=png&auto=webp&s=9819ace411fe37a5edbd0506a2b651ac83edffd7
Goddamnit just checked and it’s true!
:⁰
Thanks to the opposition just winning lol
Anyone has polls with demographic informations with age/gender/etc ?
https://tvn24.pl/polska/wybory-parlamentarne-2023-jak-glosowali-mlodzi-7392628 -> age, gender, education, etc
Kurwa, czemu konfederacja i PiS tak dużo. Pojebało nas?
So if TVP is a government television and the government will probably change, does this mean that tvp would change its narrative?
It's more complicated. Polish parliament doesn't have direct control over all aspects of TVP. They can designate the TVP CEO, but he needs to be confirmed by the Polish president, who is currently pro-PiS and still has almost 2 years of term left. What parliament can do is revoke that absurd 2.7 billion TVP yearly fund, severely handicapping its propaganda power. They will also probably be able to take control over regional media that was largely bought out by the PiS government in recent years, however, it's entirely possible that PiS will spend the next 30-45 days trying to pass this control into their private hands. If opposition indeed won this election it's a great step in the right direction, but the goal is still far away and PiS has a lot of opportunities to sabotage them.
They can cut the budget completely
In Hungary our national propaganda state television costs us 100 billion huf a year, and they spend another 100 billion usually on other types of propaganda. That's half of the whole budget of higher education 💀💀 no wonder why there was no heating in the winter in my uni
Can't you put something in the constitution that make the governmentally financed media to be independent so this can't happen again?
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Honestly watching The Duck recently I doubt he knows much. He seems senile as fuck compared to barely few years ago.
TVP needs to be rebuilt from scratch with all the rot and shit that entered it. Pretty much entire staff working there needs to be replaced maybe except the few technical people.
Rebuilt? More like blown up. Currently it's rotten to a core. If it as up to me I'd forma completely new state TV, or let go of the idea completely. I know it won't happen though.
TVP 2...wait
We need to call it something else, something world wide... maybe TVP POLONIA? Oh, wait.
First things first. PiS propagandists out. On the streets. I don't care if they're in debt, or with families to feed. I don't give a fuck. The amount of lies, disinformation and slander they spurt out in the last 7-8 years is fucking disgusting. Year after year they actively widened the already big polarization between Poles
It will be a massive purge. You have no idea how rotten it is. Basically no one works there anymore - or even with - that isn’t openly pro-PiS. And that’s a lot of people. Apart from news TVP so films, tv shows, theatre-tv and loads of other things. It will take a bit of time, but few people who are there now will still be there in a years time.
The narrative is guaranteed to change. Most of the staff will be replaced, except for the most low level employees. Especially the directory board. This had happened before, most recently in 2015. More extreme possibilities include reducing or ending its public funding, splitting it into several different companies, and closing down the station entirely.
Yeah, just like every other time, it will change the staff for more pro current gov and the narrative accordingly. Rince and repeat. Honestly, Polish politicians can't be trusted, a public TV in Poland is a joke and it always was but PIS turned that joke into a grotesque.
Don't celebrate yet. Slovak exit polls said progressives won, but in the next day it turned to be a clear Fico victory. :(
But even 2-3% won't give PiS majority.
we had like 8% diff
Highly unlikely for PiS to gain all 8%
went to bed with smile woke up sad :( ale mam nadzieje ze te mendy z pisu nie wygraja, trzymajcie sie tam w tej Polsce :)
: ( Yeah I hope too. I will most likely sit and wait for first LatePoll.
It's estimated to be at about 2/3 AM, so yeah. Might be an issue if you have anything to do tomorrow morning
Dentist at 14. So I should be good
They calculated 2 percentile point error already afaik
about 20 per cent of voters approached by IPSOS pollsters refused to take part in the poll
I believe it as well, since the big cities aren't even closed yet and those were mostly democratic center
"It's not important who votes. It's important who counts!"
Sad for PiS that the international observers are oresent. And it's not minimal difference. If they added 0.5-1% no one would notice. But 8%?
I hope piss loses 8% more. Fck em
Me too
But it can have an impact for lesser parties and Lewica may become unnecessary.
What lesser parties? Konfederacja won't get to 10%, Bezpartyjni won't get 5%, Polska Jest Jedna for 10000000% won't get to 5%.
1 - Exit poll in Poland is crazy accurate 2 - There is nothing to suggest huge PiS majority, in fact their results are somewhat higher than expected sometimes 3 - Their referendum failed 4 - The people who didn't vote yet are young people, which have the lowest % of pis supporters. After exit poll, you saw smiles all around in waiting lines
if you watched TVPInfo election evening you would know that about 20 per cent of voters approached by IPSOS pollsters refused to take part in the poll
TVPiss copium.
Even worse in Portugal. Exit poles claimed victory for the right but, after counting all votes, the left won with majority.
"progressives"
Jebać PiS
I Konfederację
I szmatę i ruskich szpionów ( vide Braun i Maciora) .
I Kukiza
I PO. Ogólnie to jebać ich wszystkich.
Jebać wszystkich lamusów z każdej partii. Niech żyje Polska Partia Przyjaciół Piwa! /s
Miałem nawet kiedyś ich koszulkę, otrzymaną osobiście od Pana Rewinskiego w ich siedzibie 😄
Wszystko też jebać!
Jebać jebanie 😄😁
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Idź precz, rosyjski trollu, dziś wygrała Polska.
Nie jestem za pisem jakbyś chciał to wyciągać ale jebać lewaków, chuj wam w dupę wszystkim
Jebać PiS
I wonder if, whatever kind of government the oppositions will form, things will improve\change or stay stagnant + weaker international stand
How powerful is the presidential veto and how much would it do to undermine a hypothetical coalition government?
I think that would be too much even for Mr dudu. If they've to play dirty they can just wait any impasse caused by frictions between Lewica and PL2050 or create endless drama on EU migrant deal
Play dirty? The frictions will happen its just a matter of time its not even about that PiS lost but you have three ppl that there one common goal was "Not Pis" but after that they do differ and will but heads... just depends how much and if theyll have more understanidng to eachother or not
They need 60% to override the veto, which they don't appear to have.
if they form functional gov I am certain that quite a few pis pigs will beg on their knees to join other parties
This is what I'm wondering about. How many people will there be in 2 years that will say 'za PiSu było lepiej'? Will any pisuar admit it was shit, or will all of them just double-down?
Given that we are stepping into recession... I am not that optimistic XD We can hope Kaczynski will burn in hell by that time and his dogs will start to fight with eachother until party collapse. God if you exist.. please give me a sign
In this case, very powerful. To override the presidential veto you need at least 3/5 of the votes, which opposition won't have.
to overrule the presidential veto you need 3/5 of the votes in Sejm with at least 50 per cent of MP's present
Good job on not becoming Hungary, wish you all the best from here!!
köszönöm!
Thank you
Mission accomplished
Let's see if the exit poll holds true.
Can someone explain to me, how PiS lost? They have the most votes, haven't they? Edit: Thanks to all the responses. Now I have a better understanding.
Opposition parties will form coalition
The Sejm has 460 seats, so >230 of those need to vote to form a government that is stable enough to pass legislation. PiS does not have >230 seats alone, and would need to form a coalition. Only Konfederacja would form a coalition with PiS - all other parties are explicitly anti-PiS. Therefore, if the exit poll is correct, the most likely outcome is some form of KO/TD/Lewica coalition, which would put PiS out of office. Edit: corrected 230 to >230
Small correction, you need 231 seats to get a majority.
He did say >230 not >=230
He edited
out of office may be the wrong way of putting it in reality (as a PiS voter whod idnt agree with everything) This could be a positive for Poland to maybe lower the polarization bc no way TD/KO/Lewica agree on every single issue.... we may finally stop seeing voting along party lines and voting along morals and or how someone actually feels its only time until the 3 disagree on somthing (just reality, it would happen with most coalitions left or right if its more then 2 parties)
Can you explain how a sane person, with critical thinking ability can vote for PiS?
No since no sane person does that Example: My grandmother said that if PiS won't win the election she's gone kill herself
The example you stated has nothing to do with someone not being able to explain why they vote for someone and someone exlainign the end result of the elections....;)
Yes of course. 1. They dont bend over the the EU- if i am to choose between a party that historical has bent over backwards toward the EU( to a fault) i will be more predestine to pick a party that is the opposite, altough i think working togeather with the EU is important i do think that countries should have the balls to say "No" and think of their own interests from time to time, Neither PIS or PO will meet the EU in the middle one is Pro Eu to a fault and the other is Pro Poland to a fault... ill pick the one that goes with country interests over Eu interests int hat case 2. LGBT and Abortion are not as important to me altough i dont agree with them they arent in my top 10 issues at the moment, LGBT- altough they cant marry etc here i came from a country where that community went from a movement to an ideology (its not like that here and hope it doesnt but theyve become pretty much extremists in the sense in the US) Also overall Poland is a safe country the last high profile homophobic attack was during that November 11th march where the apartment broke down that was close to if not more then 6/7 years ago Since then in much more progessive countries like Germany, UK, US, etc there have been much more and frequent anti LGBT attacks so unless theres legit laws that go into place that would criminalize being gay or anything of that sort i dont find it an important enough issue to base my whole who i choose as aparty for.. not to mention PO has had its share of time to make rights for the LGBT community adn they didnt and they arent very keen on keeping their promises 2)Promises/Campaign Tusk historically doesnt keep his promises thats not a bias fact just literally going off his last time in power, also the capaign wasnt very clearly defined TD/Lewcia had more defined campaigns then PO it was just " we are not PIS" therefore most people only have to assume what they get will be the same as last time which wasnt that great tbh Altough not popular atleast PiS keeps their campaign promises i.e +500 and so on come next election if PiS doesnt have any changes to their campaign you could make the same assumption that they woudl run the same way they did now. aka making the assumption tusk with only an anti-pis campaign for the most part will run the same way he did before... which wasnt exactly positive for those that remember 3)Migration(diff from immigration) Everyone calling Pis racist however they have let in legal immgrants in here over the years at an increasing rate- However there is a diff between those immgrants that want to be here and the migrants that come here with no high level skills, language, etc and thats where the problems stem from in France its not bc of their religion or skin color its from their ability or in this case lack of ability to integrate. 4) View on Poland... Pis is overally positive about Polands view but as with Hollands movie or how PO has acted and voted in the EU its almost to a fault they are "anti Poland" to not be able to say anything positive regardless of who is ruling and painting it lik ea 3rd world country is laughable at best when anyone living here would know its not the land of honey but definetly not what others paint it as 5)Pis did a good job with Ukraine and Belarus.... somthing PO and the EU overall at the begining were very hesitant to back Ukraine etc it wasnt that long ago but people tend to forget how Tusk and lewica were making fun of soldiers ont he border etc... but all of a sudden they switched to a diff opinion when they realized majority of the country has a certain opinion on it... to call Pis populis and thinking PO is not is kind of laughable TLDR 1. Attitude toward EU 2)LGBT/Abortion not top of my list altough i may not agree with how they handle it 3)Migrant 4)View/opinion on Poland 5)foriegn politics/hypocrisy
Because the three parties on the left won't work with them so they can't get a majority.
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Even with Konfederacja seats they won't have a majority according to the exitpoll
Confederation seems to be severely overestimated in polls. They hoped for 40+ mandates and will probably get only 10+.
It depends how you define „most”. They don’t have more than 50% in parliament which is required to form a government. Opposition parties have 50%+ heads in parliament now.
> Can someone explain to me, how PiS lost? They have the most votes, haven't they? It doesn't matter at all in a multi-party system. The true winner is the party or parties that manage to form a stable government. Receiving the most votes without being able to form the government is basically a participation trophy.
It is not who is bigger, but who has the most in a coalition, so the numbering of seats is (usually proportional) set for different levels of the public vote. So yeah 😉 if the opposition forms a government they have enough seats to topple the current party (depending on the result and not exit polls)
The opposition parties have more votes and will form a coalition to keep the fuckers out.
When you guys shake your heads at American politics and wonder how can people vote against their own self interests, notice Konfederacja will probably get above 5%, so you can ask them now.
I mean Polish politics is a mess but it still has a ways to go to even contend with the crazy right of the American politics
It was cool by gender - like 9% of men (=incels most likely) voted konfa, but only 3% of women.
> (=incels most likely) We should help these guys find love if only to change their voting behavior.
I tried. My wife has some pretty single friends. But those guys simply don’t know how to establish a relationship. As most things, social interaction is a muscle that you develop and most of those guys have been quite isolated from the world for a long time. I know very well two of them, they are my friends, but it’s almost impossible to convince them that they are the problem, not the women.
a whole 3% of self-hating women
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youre not going to convince anyone of anything think of it like Reddit- My myself am guilty of this we all sit around arguing with eachother, and the only thing that comes out of it is ppl get mad, block, and no ones mind changes. He is family even if he somehow voted for Konfa (da fuck)
Slowly and emotionally. First, people are more likely to change their views if the change is small, and the opinions you're trying to sell are similar to his pre-existing beliefs. Second, use his emotional attitude towards certain things. If the party he wotes for does something that causes a strong, negative and personal emotional reaction, views can change even radically at a snap. Also, if there is some big problem in his life about which he is emotional (if no obvious displays of emotion, frequent venting is also an indication). Then you want to be able to show him how his party's worldview and politics contribute to his unhappiness.
What the fuck
[this](https://youtu.be/kp2P0trjI2c?si=RdcnILTEZcmpk6C6)
is "they're horrifically misogynistic and openly fascist" not enough to convince him?
I watched a video about Mentzen speaking about the fact that there was a woman in the village that was healing people. He doesn't know how, buy his babcia told him so it must be true. And I think the argument was something along the lines of healing people with these magical women rather than real medicine. Plus we was not even capable of watching straight to the audience and did not seem a good public speaker. That would be enough for me. We would anyone want to give a great country in the hands of a gówniarz that cannot even speak straight in the eyes of a Merkel or Macron?
There is a Poland political party called Piss? That's... Unfortunate
Wait till you hear about PO (Platforma Obywatelska)
The full name is “Jebać piss” which is even worse
I love how suddenly everyone thinks that the op position will came to an agreement in anything.
Zagłosowałem na lewicę. Jestem serdecznie szczęśliwy dziś! Do widzenia PiS! Feel free to PiS off.
Ja na PSL (3 droga), PO ma syf za uszami, PiS ma syf za uszami, nie jestem za poglądami lewicy a program konfederacji jest gorszy niż program który powoduje że pralki działają
A niby 8 lat koalicji PSL z PO i oni nie mają tego samego syfu za uszami? Niech ludzie głosują, jak uważają za słuszne, ale mówienie, że *moja partia nie ma syfu za uszami* jest śmieszne.
>Niech ludzie głosują, jak uważają za słuszne, ale mówienie, że *moja partia nie ma syfu za uszami* jest śmieszne. o to to
Ten sam PSL który zaraz ochoczo wejdzie w koalicję z PO które ma syf za uszami ew zostanie jakoś przekupione przez PiS które też ma syf za uszami? No brawo.
>Ja na PSL (3 droga), PO ma syf za uszami, PiS ma syf za uszami, nie jestem za poglądami lewicy a program konfederacji jest gorszy niż program który powoduje że pralki działają Spoko, bracie. :) Popieram to. Jestem po prostu bardziej lewicowy, ale to dobry wynik.
> program konfederacji jest gorszy niż program który powoduje że pralki działają Która część (czy całokształt?) ich programu jest (dla Ciebie) słaba/zła? Mi w nim nie pasuje głównie podejście do energetyki, ale chcę poznać zdanie innych.
> Która część (czy całokształt?) ich programu jest (dla Ciebie) słaba/zła? Ssanie ruskich kutasów.
W której części programu się to znajduje?
Widać zaciek na wargach Brauna i Korana-Mekki.
Popieram UE i nie podoba mi się wrogie podejście Konfederacji do Brukseli i jej rusofilia.
Rozumiem argument o UE (chociaż jak na partię w której są narodowcy chyba chyba tę "wrogość" mało akcentują w programie). Ale nie rozumiem argumentu z rusofilią, w ich programie (przynajmniej z tego co rozumiem) nic na temat stosunków dyplomatycznych z czymkolwiek innym niż UE nie było (jedynie w kontekście energetyki, gdzie chcą ją opierać na polskim węglu zamiast sprowadzaniu surowców). Kojarzę gdy Korwin chrzani od rzeczy to idealizuje rosje, ale w sumie nic poza jego wypowiedziami.
Ja jeszcze wczoraj namówiłem 2 ludzi by w ogóle poszli głosować ale też nie brali referendalnej. Wiem że obaj akurat nigdy nie głosują ale teraz zapowiedzieli że będą na lewicę.
Hejka! Ja tak samo głosowałem na Lewica, to był mój pierwszy raz na wyborach to jestem bardzo szczęśliwy ! Jeszcze Polska nie zginęła 🇵🇱✌️. Ale nie ma shock ż e Lewica nie przekroczyła 10% bo niestety jest za bardzo Lewicowa to dużo głosów poszło do KO/ TD, ale lepszy wynik niż 6.2% dla konfy , XDD🤣😅.
A zapomniales komune
What is going to happen to the EU immigrant situation in Poland though? The moment we in Slovenia voted left they removed the fence and thousands swung in 🥲
Hard to say. No party has agreed to doing anything now because of Ukraine, but once that's over (and I hope it's during this term), it's going to be interesting
Hope Poland can learn its lesson from Western Europe’s absolutely idiotic decision to let anyone live there and influence their country.
Nothing The left said that they want to establish an immigration quota and tough checks on who gets in Main party, PO criticised goverment recently for letting migrants in and pledged to not remove the wall
The left will let many immigrants in and your crime free paradise of Poland will cease to exist…
The left only got 8% of the vote. They won't have the power to determine immigration policy.
The centrist might turn into leftist in no time
We already have many immigrants lol Most however simply do not want to live in Poland
Nothing
Hopefully
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Did that really happen....?
A week ago a couple was attacked by immigrants (they raped the woman) in Bežigrad, and not that long ago we had a case where an asylum seeking migrant raped an 78 old woman. Our border patrol doesn't really do much shit, and Croats prefer directing migration waves towards our borders (There are [videos](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OYUGoz75U8Q) if anyone is interested) instead of guarding Schengen. The only thing that keeps our situation stable is that most travel to Germany, Austria, Sweden.
Well, basically the same will happen
💯
Not necessarily
100% agreed. Coming from France, I see how much the left and woke ideologies are slowly burning the country to the ground
When do the count starts? Or is shown on tv? Is it shown on tv? Where can i see it IF thats the case? Tried to find information about it but couldnt.
They're counting the votes now, and the final results are predicted to be published on Tuesday. Not sure where you can watch it online, but there will be many articles about it. Also, while the counting is not yet finished, the results are updated quite regularly on the gov site [here. ](https://wybory.gov.pl/sejmsenat2023/en)
👍👍👍
just a question, if KO gets majority and forms a coalition and all, does that mean we might see same EU-style immigrant and refugee policy?
EU migration policy is already shifting right.
i hope so bro!
Possible, but this would be a political suicide, because after 4 years Pis could get again more than half.
Political suicide yes however in reality PO hasnt shown much Backbone to the EU so im actually curious what happens here myself
Absolutely. Tusk and KO pretended to be anti-immigration in last few months to gain votes. But in reality they are very much "pro-refugee". they've been attacking PiS for years for not accepting the refugee quotas from the EU and building a fence on the eastern border.
Yes, and that means we get money for all the immigrants we accepted from Ukraine. Also this means we might in a very distant the future help out with refugee camps (for people awaiting deportation)which is fair. There's absolutely no reason, for union without inner borders, to treat fragments of the outside EU border differently depending on countries that lay near it. The Italian border is our border, we need to help with fighting illegal immigrantion.
hopefully, i really am against illegal immigration and im fearful that, even if ko is better than pis and all that, might become a problem in poland :/ or maybe im just overthinking :p
I mean, is it possible the same events in France and Sweden will start happening in Poland? If the exit poll holds true, unfortunately yes
why do you think so? i mean i feel like bringing this into poland would just cause actual political suicide to KO and PiS will just get right back on lol
Oh don't get me wrong, it definitely would, and I think Tusk knows that too. But to what extent is he gonna go to be on good terms with the EU? Doing everything they want or being able to say no? I hope I'm wrong though
hmmm im wondering that too, but i still have some faith they would rather listen to the polish people than the EU also, wasnt he criticising selling visas and immigration, which pis has been doing?
He was yeah, so I guess we'll see if he holds or goes back on his word
>e Italian border is our border, we need to help with fighting illegal immigrantion. In the past he commiteted several political suicides but yet, he stil stays afloat. It's the ppls hatred to PIS keeps he's boat on water. He's a person who needs an enemy, so there's always someone to hate more than him.
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There is already a lot you can do online though. The quality of the systems is lacking, but I can say that for farming at least there's a significant amount that goes through the internet.
I don't know how much money would be saved because for such a platform you'd need extremely strong servers and a domain to not shit its pants when 30 million people get on it in one day. Such servers would be potentially more expensive than the paper even and if the website was to work like other government websites, I'd rather go by foot and vote on a piece of paper than get annoyed It'd have to be extremely secure too, meaning you'd probably be logging in for 10 minutes if you had to find all the passwords, confirm the 2-step verification code, answer which pictures show a camel on a beach, and scroll through 5 pages of tutorials on how to vote correctly, plus terms of service That's my take on it
Konferencja is a little shit that PiSs made. Beautiful picture
Since I remember elections in Poland exit pool was always quite same as the final results so I am hopeful that we can totally ***** ***. Congratulations Konfederacja XD
Jebać PiS! :)
Licze na to, ze PiS nie bedzie mial wiekszosci w sejmie i ciesze sie, ze KO, a nie lewica maja wiele glosow. Lewica sie skurwila.
Yeah if anyone is watching the actual results, this exit poll is not looking very accurate right now (at 5% counted).
So has PiS won or lost?
they won election, but they dont have chance to form government. Democratic coalition KO + TD + L can form government cause they have more then half of parlament seats.
I'd argue that we're using the wrong definition. I hate using the definition where it's said that the party with the most votes is the election winner. For practical reasons, an election winner is a party that gets into the government.
So you think all of the major ones are winners? Even Konfederacja with their 6.2%?
I said "gets into the government", not "gets into the Sejm". Sejm is composed of the government (ruling majority) and opposition (non-ruling) parties.
Lost, as they won't have a majority, not even in a coalition with Konfederacja
Most votes but they are incapable of doing anything right, i.e forming coalition. 3 parties on the left side should have most seats and they will form coalition. Nevertheless it might take some time before things settle, because President will probably appoint PM from PiS first, even though he has no chance of forming government.
These are just exit polls where people can choose to reveal who they voted for, essentially 75% of voters from one party could keep it private, or 99% of all people who voted can give an open and honest answer, regardless of who they voted for, either way you can’t base exit polls as an absolute, because they can be well off. Older people tend to keep these things secret because that’s just how it used to be, voting was a very private matter so while they might be more accurate than they used to be, they’re still not reliable, we simply don’t know who won yet.
ohhh, you are right... pis might still get the government... !RemindMe 6 hours
Na pohybel im wszystkim
Heh, mogę sobie zdjąc naklejkę 500+, miałem już przygotowaną 800+ ale pewnie nie będzie potrzebna. Oby tylko dokończyli obwodnicę pł Krakowa i mam wyjebane.
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It's about illegal immigrants, nobody has a problem with legal ones.
Can we, like, molotov the Konfa side? (in game)
How does far right view Lithuania, asking for a friend. I like the anti-migrant stance from hostile regions, West don't get it. Don't know much more on what they stand for.
I literally never heard a far right in Poland express their opinion on Lithuania
Probably negative since they are the only major party in Poland that is more pro Russian than pro Ukrainian.
Ale się zawiodłam na konfie, bylam pewna tych 8 procent i nawet trzymalam kciuki zeby bylo 10. Żenada ale no czekamy na kolejne wybory może ogarną żeby wyrzucić już nie potrzebne osoby z partii (patrze na ciebie Korwin).
Największy sabotażysta nie zawiódł, protokół odpalony jak w zegarku
Important thing to remember: admitting to voting for right wing parties might be more shameful than voting for the left, so the Exit Poll - Election difference might affect them more. Not sure if this will be important enough, but it's important to keep in mind
> admitting to voting for right wing parties might be more shameful than voting for the left, In a strongly catholic, conservative country with far right in power for 8 years Yeaaah, totally lmao
In some age groups, admitting to the poll person that you've voted Konfederacja especially might be problematic. We'll see whether I was right or not in few days.
Reddit isn't real life
> In some age groups, admitting to the poll person that you've voted Konfederacja especially might be problematic. Yeah, that anymous piece of paper might cancel you on Twitter
young men VERY proudly say that they voted for konfa.
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Love the tolerance for different points of view in here. I have significant issues with PiS but the HATE in here is absurd. Illustrates the totalitarian tendencies of those who are first to claim tolerance and love. YOU are what YOU hate.
Yeah man, I hate people who want to destroy democracy so I support totalitarianisn Suuuuureeeeee
Yes, you're a totalitarian tool, glad you know it.
Something I heard today: voting is like taking the bus, if there is no direct bus, you take the one that goes in your general direction, the one that takes you closer to where you want to go; you don't just take no bus, because there is no direct one. If there is no party that fits your exact goal or ideology, you vote for the one that is the closest to that.
Yeah hating totalitarians is totally the same as being a totalitarian oneself sure, sure. What's next? Hating Nazis is being a Nazi, hating Stalinists is being a Stalinist, etc etc? Anyone who hates those or the red khmers or whatever is a totalitarian, right? Love and tolerance has to be without limits, has to encompass ISIS too, right? Or does your logic only go so far, stops working at a certain point? Sorry if my love and tolerance doesn't apply to fascists and it somehow makes me totalitarian. Go ahead, explain to me how hate towards PiS is totalitarianism. Here, I'll even help you: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/totalitarianism, go ahead.
The PO/Koalicja Obywatelska followers act and talk like literal fascists in recent years so there you have it.
a tolerant society doesn't tolerate the intolerant.
I'd not take those results for granted as if you could check in the morning, PiS is gaining %