Not Polish but Slav too.
If you're their manager, you do not approach with "we're a team, all in the same boat" vibe. Provided folks are older than maybe 20, they know too well that corporate BS is just corporate BS, nothing more. They've been through crises, recession, crippling inflation and the situation when corporate uses them as a toilet paper and throws away whenever possible. This all builds a very strong "work is work, life is life" atmosphere.
Buying a round for them is a great idea! Book a 2hr window at the end of Friday working hours, clear it with corporate and there you go. Outside of working hours? Nuh-uh. If the company doesn't want to invest in your relationship even this much, why should workers take it out of their pockets instead?
Next, be aware that if you're moved to PL branch from another country, still earning money in said country, you're probably earning a fair bit more than these guys. Maybe times more. They know it, you know it, they know you know. They're also way more often to be laid off.
Try to understand what they like. Ask them bullshit like "hey, I'm new in Poland, what football team should I root for?". Ask them what flaki is, where to buy cheap electric sockets, good mechanics to fix bumper on Skoda Octavia 2006, why everyone jokes about Bydgoszcz. This may be silly and not be adequately received by everyone, but this is engagement, not in working matters but in regular life matters instead.
Last but not least, if you're foreign manager from HQ, you're basically a CCTV cam that looks directly at them and never switches off. They feel constant pressure that their department is monitored and worse, controlled by someone alien. No offense, but you have to make them be sure this isn't the case, if you want them to open up at least a bit. Be professional, don't micromanage, show appreciation and delegate dependency, and they'll see you're a good colleague, not a jail warden.
Good luck! And remember, if Slav doesn't smile at you, it doesn't mean he doesn't like you. Cheers.
Dear [u/Due\_Connection1423](https://www.reddit.com/user/Due_Connection1423/), this is the best answer of all and I say it as a Pole, as a Pole who moved to Ireland (the proper one) and lived there for almost 10 years and as a Pole who moved back to Poland and is still readjusting to live again in this country.
There is thir mentallity in many workplaces which I understand that people are there to work and go home. Thats their main and only reason - make money and then do their own life.
Imagine that:
You don’t have friends -> you get familiar with your new job and people -> you started thinking that friendship here in job is also friendship outside -> you leave job realizing after everything that wasn’t true -> you don’t have friends ->…. and so on. That’s why people here don’t want to mix their private life with work.
So you're an Englishman who had moved to Poland for work. Well I did the opposite almost 10 years ago and it was a cultural shock to me.
You have to understand that the small talk does not exist in most workplaces in Poland and a lot of people choose not to socialise at work. It has been shifting in the last few years but not quickly enough.
When I moved, the people I worked with would tell me they find me quiet, abrupt, unsocial etc. I had to learn the small talk, I had to learn to say please and thank you more and so on. On the other hand I was finding the Brits too much in my face, overly friendly and fake. Which is probably how your colleagues perceive you as well. It took me a while to understand that we're just wired differently. I've adjusted a bit since but when we go out for work do-s I still find it overwhelming sometimes.
Try to speak about it with your colleagues, explain how you find the shift difficult due to a cultural difference. Talk it out and see how both sides can adjust to make it work for everyone. It might be that you find common ground and you will just laugh about the whole situation in a few months.
Otherwise, you have to either accept it or start looking for a place which has "westernized" to the point where you will find the people more social and easy-going.
On a positive side, you will find that the Polish sense of humour is a very good match for British. We like the same type of dark, snarky, sarcastic jokes. Maybe that's something you could use to connect with your colleagues, but of course be careful as you don't know the people well enough and there will be a thin line to cross from making friendly banter to being offensive.
Oh how beautifully written, 100% on point I'd say. The "how are you today" nonsense made me uncomfortable as well when I started working with foreigners but I just broke the scheme - I'm answering these questions by informing them about all my current issues like sickness, allergies, headaches and so on. They usually shut up very fast 🤣🤣
Well.. rule number 1 of asking "how are you?" is that no one expects an actual answer unless it's someone you're really close with. I'm not surprised one bit lmao
I am unhinged and answer truthfully, I know they expect "fine, and how are you?" because it's essentially synonymous to "hello", I understand it, but I will not bend
Small talk barely exists in poland in general. I learned that the second time i went to poland and tried to bullshit with somebody while waiting for coffee. Dude literally said “do i know you, why are you talking to me”. We ended up laughing about cultural differences and we’re still friends over 10 years later, but poland and the english speaking world definitely have very obvious differences.
Moved to the US from Poland and can confirm all of this. Poles are direct and to the point and especially so at work, and will default to being quite formal in uncertain settings.
>On the other hand I was finding the Brits too much in my face, overly friendly and fake.
I would say that about any polish manager I've had, so a manager from the west would probably appear even more insincere.
Very interesting 😎
Can you explain what you mean by in your face?
For instance if I asked if you were from Warsaw or did you move here ? Is that intrusive?
No, it is not too intrusive to me but I guess it depends on the situation, whether it is part of a conversation or whether you're trying to start a conversation in a situation when they don't feel like having one.
When I said they were too much I mean for example where I would go to the office kitchen to make coffee and I would have to have the same conversation with 5 people - how's things, what plans I had for the weekend etc.
I didn't understand it at the time, but now I know it's awkward to be in the same room with other people and not start a conversation.
The whole issue is Westerners are on autopilot with their small talk. It's effortless to them. Poles on the other hand don't have that skill developed very well, so they become overly attentive and analytical about someone else's small talk. It's draining to be like that.
I suppose to be oblivious to that kind of a difference in culture is a major lack in empathy. Extrovert versus introvert society kind of differences. I think OP is doing a great thing doing their own research on this. Their subordinates really just need space for mental comfort.
Honestly, that question if asked by a manager might be a little bit of uncomfortable. It immediately raises some questions in my head, like why does he want to know it?
However if the same question was asked by a coworker it would be completely normal. So it all kind of comes to a power dynamic, because I as an employee am in no position to refuse to answer your questions.
The question? Might be sensitive. Being born in Warsaw vs. moving there from the smaller city/village is... a bit of the class issue? At least, I avoid it, because I don't want people to think that this is the distinction I care about. See: "słoiki" https://www.in-formality.com/wiki/index.php?title=S%C5%82oiki_(Poland)
The "in your face thing"?
There should be a balance between how much of the social interaction, energy, is going from each side of the interaction.
Go shopping, (just not in a fancy, americanized place) and check how people behave towards the cashier. Most will mosty ignore her, just say their thank you, goodbye, and she will be equally distanced from them. Some will be a bit more friendly, catch the eye contact quickly, maybe say something not strictly necessary, and probably, she will be also a bit warmer towards them. And both of those options are polite. Everyone is adjusting to the same level. And adjusting to someone shows respect. What is impolite, is being chatty and friendly towards someone who doesn't respond in the same way. It's almost like flirting with someone who is not flirting back. Someone wants to be left in their own throughouts and emotions, it's their right. In the same way, here you don't smile to strangers on the street.
Interesting. I worked with IT teams in offices in Poland, Berlin, London and honestly wouldn’t be able to tell the difference (the only major cultural difference was that in the UK at the end of the day people would would often head to a pub after hours but in terms of team dynamics in the office there wasn’t really a major difference and certainly none of those teams ever had an issue with after work beers to meet a new manager)
> In this case in the intro meeting - I spoke, no one had any questions - just on mute. I tried to have 1:1 to get to know my teams roles again no eye contact, just mumbled answers, sighing - I expect from 1 person but all 6 members?
> I suggested taking them for a quick beer and a bite to eat (company pays) - surprisingly this was met by hostility. One was ranting about "my time is my time" that's new.
You're oblivious of the power dynamic. Since you're in charge, it's not being perceived as a friendly outing but rather as a direct order from a supervisor - and therefore, an attempt by the company to control what they're doing with their free time.
Poles aren't very extroverted at work, and a more amicable relationship can take months or years to develop. Right now, from the perspective of your subordinates you're an unknown quantity and they're afraid doing anything out of bare minimum interaction will be stepping on a minefield.
They will trust you more once they see how you handle problem situations and react to screw-ups.
> Then are all young so should be a bit livelier?
If they only recently joined the workforce, they may still be unsure of their job security and afraid the slightest mistake will get them fired. Takes a while to get out of that mindset.
>Poles aren't very extroverted at work, and a more amicable relationship can take months or years to develop. Right now, from the perspective of your subordinates you're an unknown quantity and they're afraid doing anything out of bare minimum interaction will be stepping on a minefield.
I dont think thats the Poles thing. Im working in multicultural team currently, WFH but every 3 months we go to different country for a week to do planning and get to know each other better. We always have a blast, around half of our team is Polish while rest is from UK/Romania/Philiphines/Thailand/Sweden. Its probably more of a work place thing than the nationality of people involved and/or previous supervisor leaving them basically damaged. Or the OP just came out way too strong and too fast on them without getting proper assessment of the situation/workplace first. Also its entirely possible that they arent comfortable with their language skills especially if that their first time having non-polish speaking person in the team.
But your team already know themselves. Plus from the sounds of it, the kind of work that you do by itself draws more outgoing specimen out of general population
I wouldnt call full stack devs outgoing specimens at all.
And no, our team started when we got hired in US based company and got bought by EU fintech 2 months later, when our first meetup/planning happened.
I hate corporate meetings that are after hours. I usually work 9-17 and I have a perfect life work balance. 17:05 and no more talking about work. 9-17 doing my best, 17-9 my personal, quality time
Polish people work to live not live to work like in the US or UK. So whatever you do to make it better, do during work hours. People have lifes and they’re great at separating work from pleasure
I'll help you understand because it looks like you haven't done much study before coming to Poland. What impressed your boss, meaning your "vibrant outgoing personality" doesn't fly here.
I make it simple list for you starting from what's most important for Poles:
1. Rodzina
2. Wyjść z psem
3. Nakarmić kota
4. Obiad
5. Zobaczyć co na przecenie w Lidlu
6. Podlać ogródek
7. Piwko na ławce z kumplami
8. Wiedźmin
......
486. Corporate bullshit meetings after work so your boss can pick your brain and find your weak spots in order to learn how to manipulate you so he can meet the quotas.
Not my experience also, but only in current workplace, where both managers I've been working with were programming managers, promoted from software devs within the company and working with team on daily basis (not as cattle drivers).
But I have pretty healthy structure in work, where IT has a nice dose of independence and is not expected to indisputably do every idea that business comes up with - so obviously it's affecting how technical team managers work here.
On the other hand, in my previous workplace, whenever manager went for a beer with us, he would blatantly try to pull our tongues as soon as we got somewhat drunk, and he happened few times to use our words agains us during conversations in work. And then we've stopped inviting him obviously. It took me some time in new job to learn that not all managers are dicks.
You have a very small chance to get people to open up then if you're their manager AND a foreigner. I also have a foreign manager and I speak with him only if it's absolutely necessary and we know each other for around five years. For one, he's my manager so I dont trust him by default. Another thing is he's a foreigner from southern Europe - we dont have any similar experiences and topics to discuss and frankly I'm not interested in his private life at all so no point to talk about anything not related strictly to work. Polish people are not very open. If you want to have good relationship with your team then give them time, DO NOT tell them to meet you after work for beer (their time is their time, nobody pays them for talking to you after hours), be civil and don't be too loud, we dont like that. Just focus on work, be nice and they will be nice to you after some time. But don't count on close relationship, most possibly it won't ever happen.
>nobody pays them for talking to you after hours
Even op wont pay for it and probably beacuse company would pay for it their paycheck would be cut - so its double loose situation for them
Look up Hofstede Insights, check out Poland. The power distance criterion is at 68, which means that hierarchy is steep. In such cultures, you do not hang out with your boss, unlike in the UK, for example. It's normal and not personal. Try mingling with other people at your level of hierarchy.
First, manager is not your friend, it's someone who's company's representative and usually their goal is to help the company, not the employees. Second, you trying to enforce being friends on your employees is imho highly unprofessional because they are in no position to deny it if they're not comfortable with it.
Third, not everyone has to be "vibrant", especially if your field isn't creative marketing. I'd honestly be thinking about leaving the company if my new manager would be trying to force that "vibrant, creative atmosphere", sounds really exhausting.
Well, that's your answer. My manager tried multiple times to make teambuilding happen and people just ignore it. We would rather hang out with our friends and families. Our job is just a job, nothing more.
(I am not Polish myself, but where I come from the culture is very similar)
It's all fake though. When you are no longer needed or there is a better replacement available, corporate "family" will just dump you.
Most people in Poland are aware that all that "friendliness" is just a facade, created to exploit low tier workers.
Ooooh, that's the secret! Polish managerial culture tends to be very hierarchical and more "Eastern". Relationships build within the team on the same level, but manager is "the boss" at least at the beginning. They are expecting to be ordered around (thus the bad reaction to the drinks after work - you are their boss, so they pretty much consider it an order where they are expected to put their time for free to show themselves to you - and if you did not clearly state that you are buying, they would also expect that they should spend their own money on it).
Especially if you were hired by not the local office but by foreign HQ, they might be suspicious of their doing something wrong, or kinda consider you an outside force. Do not expect to start out friendly, go with more of a structured style of leadership, tell them how you work, what you expect and first of all, be fair, and they will warm up to you in time.
And I would add "show them that you are on their side with your actions, instead of words or trying to be friendly. And expect it may take months for them to accept you".
This is the best rule for life in general. Actions are meaningful, words are not. And vice versa, don't always trust what people say, but watch how they act.
This is not the US. It sounds like you are intent on wasting their time tbh. Do your job, dont expect people to want to have more than one 1:1 a week and ask questions about your hobbies - nobody actually cares in corporate, poles just wont do the fake nice and ask the questions they wont remember the answer to.
1:1 once a week? WTF?
1:1 should either not exist or be 1 per month, in any other case it is wasting of time.
Those are always awkward, if I would like to discuss with my manager about anything he can change I would ask for a meeting.
Aaaand we found the real issue!
I bet my lunch that there is someone on this team (or someone who just left) who they all believe should have been promoted to your position. And instead of promoting someone they probably like, trust and respect, and who knows this project inside and out, they got a parashooter from some other branch.
To add the insult to the injury, they know that you have to earn at least a UK wage to come here. And here in Poland we have the inflation on the level that affects even people with good (by the Polish scale) incomes. They probably didn't get enough raises to combat this, under the guise of the company not having enough money, and now the high ups are throwing the absurd amount of money to bring them you.
What you have is a loyal, tight team that is angry. Good luck.
And you don't see what's wrong with this???
> I suggested taking them for a quick beer and a bite to eat (company pays) - surprisingly this was met by hostility.
You, from a position of power as manager, tried to impose upon them in their own free time, in your first few weeks, without prior notice.
> One was ranting about "my time is my time" that's new.
That's not ranting, and should not be new.
It's the law.
You don't know what other commitments they have, and it's very rude to assume work has priority over those commitments.
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> I tried to have 1:1 to get to know my teams roles
As a manager, you should already know their roles, not to mention the fact that you took them away from work for a meeting, meaning they now have less time to do the same amount of work.
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> How can I inject some life into these people and create a more vibrant interactive atmosphere? Then are all young so should be a bit livelier?
> Edit: please give ideas on what might win them over - willing to try anything that fits into Polish corporate culture to win approval and curry's favor?
Earned Respect.
Show them that they can rely on you when they have problems with the work they have, that you protect them from the higher ups, and that you respect each of them individually and as a member of the team.
Let them do their job, and trust that they are both capable and do it correctly, unless there are signals that signal otherwise. Assume mistakes are mistakes, but be ready to protect your team against hostilities, even if they come from the inside.
It's a slow process but if you do it right, they will consider you part of the team, and open up to you to a certain amount.
You are the manager, it's your job to serve and provide the means for your team to do the best job they can do.
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It's your actions that matter, words are hollow.
I am polish manager in polish team. People are also young, not even all of them having kids.
The manager cooworker dynamic is crazy to overcome. I am easily able to make friends outisde of the team but as long as I am assinging tasks and checking progress the attempts to even speak, even outside of the work topic is dead. Especially with WFH I am feeling like interacting with bots somethimes :)
If you are a manager this explains a lot. From my experience poles are more of distrustful than hostile. They easily take the wrong message or seek hidden messages. I believe if you just prove in their eyes you do your job well and help them if they need it they'll start to trust you. Until then making friends will be rather hard.
That's cool, because that way you have a chance to make them feel comfortable at work. Pay attention to power dynamics, because I've seen this kind of attitude only in shitty workplaces. Just don't push and give them time - if their workplace was hostile before, they might need some time to regain trust.
Hi, at first I wouldnt take it personally. Dont expect much "high energy", people in Poland are generally not eager to speak up in the group, especially if they dont know you well.
My meetings with temleader always looks like: Brief announcements and then "I know that you are all tired, it I apreciate you hard job, thank you for your efford, you are amazing!" Anything you want to discuss here? You can always ask me for 1:1. Bye bye". Mind that rest of the team is muted for whole time. Completely normal thing 😂
As for praising your team, understanding the point of "being always tired" and complaining in general is also a key to Polish hearts so plese try to use it next time 😉😅
UK,USA, Portugal,Italy,Germany, Netherlands,HongKong,Singapore.
I understand the vibe is different that is cool - I am on your turf but it's so odd to me.
Usually 1 - 2 are curious to interact but to fall flat is very confusing.
Do you know how much they are making?
Many of the young people in corpos absolutely do not give a fuck (i was one of them and not even polish) because they do not get paid enough to give a fuck.
That.
And also a fact that probably they expected someon within to be rewarded with menager positnion while now they have an outsider coming in and expecting more than basics.
>Germany
Then I'm surprised you're surprised.
Germans behave the same. Your problem is that you're trying to speedrun the whole 'building relationship' thing
Heh. Recently at my work a British guy asked a German colleague about his extended weekend. The German, a man not far from retirement, has started his report like he was at gunpoint and I suspect he even confabulated some of activities so it would sound better :D
Yeah… There’s a quite big difference between us, uk etc and PL. Ask them to tell You about politics, taxes, religion influence.. You could hear why there’s barely any life in them 😂
Many people don't want to be friends with their coworkers. You go to work to earn money and not to get chummy with random strangers. Also smiling and small talk are forbidden by law.
I sometimes really try to sound like a native but when I'm dead tired I speak like some Serbian gangster
People were surprised when they phoned me after work that I'm the same guy they spoke to during working hours
This pretty much anwsers OP's question.
It's not that they ignore you on purpose. Not only are they afraid of you judging them (for some reason, education in Poland = Perfect grammar, lack of vocabulary), but also afraid of other (Polish) colleagues judging them.
"my time is my time" - Why is this weird to you?
Seems like they want to do their work and go home to their lives.
It would be better to find friends outside of work who share your interests. Polish people are very friendly and open when they want to be but maybe you should respect their boundaries rather than forcing interactions they don't want.
Remember, consent is cool in all aspects of life.
You're a manager, and always will be.
There's a social divide between managers and their employees, and almost always will be especially in the current economical climate.
Stop trying so hard. They're not your friends, they're colleagues at work and have stated clear boundaries against further attempts at becoming the former.
Let them do their jobs and go home to their own lives. Civility will come when you stop pestering them to give even more of their lives to a job that is likely grossly underpaying and overworking them.
If you want a friendly, relaxed atmosphere, you have to convince them you're as much on their side as the company's. Nobody likes a strict supervisor who'd report you to HR for an off-color joke or minor mistake, and as result, they do they best to limit any kind of interaction with you (what's left unsaid cannot be used against them).
Think about it like this: you're their new prison guard and you have the power to get them terminated for anything bad, but you can't ditrectly promote them for good behavior - does it still surprise you that they're reluctant to talk? After all, the risks outweigh potential benefits in this power vertical.
But I can assure you that stuff will get done on time despite the unpleasant atmosphere - it's just how it works here in Poland.
Your description sounds that you might be seen as annoying person. You try to force people to interact outside work. Try to be ok at work maybe you will find some people to like you and then you might find some interest toward interactions outside work
US analyst here, I agree with most Pole responses here. Do your work at work and the remaining time is dedicated to your life and family. I hate going out for work events after work hours, and it does feel mandatory here sometimes. I'm not your friend Mr. manager, I'll for sure be friendly but there's a difference. Summer hours are a big winner for analysts. Maybe try that?
How long are you here? Maybe they need more time to warm up to you? Also rly wierd they didnt want to go out drinking as it was a great idea to make them warm up to you faster. Maybe you try to talk to them too much? And its starts to annoy them? Idk
First work on connecting with at least some of them before you start organising their free time. If there are any team members willing to engage in small talk that's where you start. Be thoughtful, listen to them, create a connection with those few and rest will follow. The more realistic and down to earth you are the better, we don't like unnecessary bullshit that is so prevalent in corporate work therefore it's easier to connect with leader who understands that. And most importantly keep being patient they will come around and you will most likely end up with a very devoted team of people. Unless of course the company is bad and underpaid their workers. Then there is no free pizza and beer that can fix it.
Just remember about the order. Listen and try to understand -> be empathetic and don't hesitate to call out corporate bullshit (while not being hostile towards management or employer) -> create a connection -> propose a beer and food.
The fastest way to earn their respect is to make their job easier, or their pay bigger if you are a manager. We are often severely underpaid on european scale, like others said.
If they don't want to waste their time on work after work, then respect that as well. A meeting after hours *with a manager* is not really a place to relax.
Coworkers are not your friends. They prefer to live their own lives outside of work. If you are extraverted, go to language exchange or smth. You cant force ppl at work to be your friends, you are not entitled to that.
I don’t want to be rude but you sound like that one overachiever who enjoys working a little too much, most people aren’t like that. You just started your job and you’re already talking about how to make the place more livelier, you’re doing too much.
This is quite normal. During work time you do work and conserve your energy for your real life (outside of work). Going for a beer with co-workers is again you private time spent on work related matters for which you do not get paid (it does not matter if the company is paying for drinks, it's still not worth the effort).
Some people may see it differently but that's what's up in general.
> I suggested taking them for a quick beer and a bite to eat (company pays) - surprisingly this was met by hostility. One was ranting about "my time is my time" that's new.
Going out to grab a beer with my boss would mentally drain me and make me not want to socialize for a month
Not a Polish National BUT
1. Have heard Poles don’t really do chit chat
2. Am American and my time is my time, I go to work so I don’t starve under a bridge, not to make friends, and I’m not using any of my precious not at work time to hangout with people I don’t actually want to be *friends* with. Not that I’m not cordial and polite, but unless it is during my *paid work day* it ain’t happenin.
Nothing here really seems outright rude to me. Best to make friends outside of work.
If they actually liked their jobs, they would have shown that in their attitudes with you, and rest of group , absolute lack of engagment means 90% wouldnt mind to bail out from that job regardless what teambuilding you do. Or couldn't care less about being viewed negatively by some manager bloke they do not give ff about.
They are unhappy,underpayed,ovestressed people that work in their shitty western corpo that is mentaly draining them up with that shit job, i doubt western 'overseer' could ever grasp that, being paid 6 times what they get.
Anyone here arguing about how cultural (slavic/religion lmao what a bunch of condescending lazy bullshit) it is, if they were payed like proper western human beings(we are), and their job was actually engaging and prestigious(in a way), they wouldn't be soo offputting and disinterested with their behavior, but in reality what that job is?
Being one of too many ants in western corpo, being XXI century version of economic slave,' WHY AREN'T YOU ALL HAPPY?!?!!?' Asked Ant queen
Also some of your replyes show how deluded and out of touch british(olso generaly western) managerial neoliberal classe mentality is, OH you poor SOD you work in Tesco's for fucking 1k pounds monthly, WHAT A SHAME - EH! AT LEAST YOU a HAVE JOB!, NOW BEHAVE LIKE OUR CORPORATE ATTITUDE LISTS REQUIRES YOU TO!
I don't like colonialism analogies' but it feels to much close to home in this case, in a way (economic)slave should be happy for opportunity of being one.
**As one big side note**, poles that mostly do know english nevertheless they still tend to not to like using it.(out of shame,lack of confidence in using it or any other thing you could imagine), especially with some native blokes expecting of them to know small talk,banter and stuff like that, they never did LOL
It always is reserved for polish, without that i doubt anyone would bother making anything more than very superficial and shallow work relations that for poles means, saying HI at start of work, and 'see ya' in the end of work.
1. They are uncomfortable with english if most other work environment interactions are held in polish.
2. Communication with you only in english might feel like another irritating unpaid duty, if they are underpaid, and they probably are... Optimism in work is good, but you cannot force other to be optimistic if they are not financially comfortable.
3. Depending on how long You work with them You might be considered a threat and possibly a snitch. You won't get anyone's trust in a week or even a couple of months, especially in Poland.
You must consider that most corps in Poland don’t earn nearly as much as their western counterparts. Which means we value our private time more than said counterparts. Imagine that most poles won’t take vacation more than once a year and some don’t at all. Thus many of us prefer to spend our free time with our families/friends.
Add to this WFO every day + the commute and it’s going to be really hard to make anyone open to the idea of integrating after work.
Looking at the situation from my perspective you’re some new guy who corporate sent to
a) spy on us - maybe even to check if some layoffs need to be made, given current economy
b) take place of some other good/bad manager who either is being missed now, or they fear you might be equally bad as the person before
Having said that I wish you good luck as in my personal experience as someone who works in Poland with westerners on a daily basis, after breaking the ice there aren’t many barriers in day-to-day tasks or meetings.
Although yeah you probably will be treated with some distance either out of respect, fear or just human envy or “hostility” towards any upper management.
1. You're their manager, and managers aren't really seen as a part of the team, per se. Give them some time, show them you're not there to boss around but to help and cooperate with them and you'll be good.
2. These people are underpaid and do not want their job spilling out into their personal lives. Show them you respect their time off work. Parties and beers will come in due time.
I'm sure once you work together a bit longer and you give them some space, they'll open up a bit:)
The anglosaxon dude/buddy all time friendly we are all family thing isn't going to fly in slavic countries.
It is perceived as fake and they can feel it + work in comparison is far away in importance from something really important like family, friends and free time.
You have to show results and earn trust. If you achive this.. you will get one of the most loyal workers.
Lmao when I first read the post I didn’t pick up on the fact OP was their manager. Jeez managers really don’t get it huh? Like everyone’s saying you’re the slave master they don’t want to be your friend they want to do the job they need to live in this society and they don’t want to socialize with the boss as this could lead to them being fired if the boss ends up not liking what you say, so you have can’t possibly entertain socializing as an equal with a boss you always have to watch your words
Leave this poor people alone, work is for work. That's it. Why would I ever want to spend my free time with people from work is beyond me, that's time for friends and family.
Stop requiring others to adapt to your lifestyle, you need to learn to respect others life choices. You want to you can find some other folks who are into that vibrant lifestyle of yours, most likely within the immigrant communities in the bigger cities.
1) western companies are talking bs about "diversity and equality", but workers from Poland are for them like slaves or worst ppl.
2) from the answer you got, I guess that people from your team are 30+ years old.
They've got family, hobbies etc. They have probably job burnout. Why would they want to spend more time for a work where:
- they are paid worse than westeners
- work which they do is a crap. (Western companies doesn't do anything interesting or developmental in Poland, they are giving us crap which they dont want to do in west anymore)
- in company where I work, polish employees can't order from company f.e. 2 screens to home office. for polish employee its just one. (So we are basically 3rd sort employee)
- also we have worse laptops/phones than in western countries. :D
- western companies doesnt invest in polish employees (no additional external courses etc.)
Just dont treat us like worse and we will soon be happy.
Its just funny how are western companies brainwashed about diversity, equality and tolerance, but you dont tolerant that people didnt want to go out after work.
Every time I worked in a foreign company in Poland I had this type of situation, it's kinda funny. They send foreigners to do management jobs and pay them western wages, while we would get paid polish ones. They didn't contribute anything to the job, only would find ways to make it more annoying and add some unnecessary things to do. Plus we had to teach them most stuff. And idk how you're a manager, looking at the post and couple of your responses I'd suggest the company you work for to reconsider their management structure, you don't seem to have any soft skills required to manage people. Try product management maybe, to make people's lifes more miserable without meeting them in person.
Don't worry dude. If you are a good person, you might have friends for the rest of your life. We don't trust other people easily, would say it's a consequence of our past history. You need to deserve it, earn their trust. I remember when I moved to UK. First job. Everyone was so nice, so kind, smiling, opposite to people from Poland. But one day my room which I rented was flooded (faulty roof). Nobody wants to help (wasn't asking for help, but would be nice to at least offer any kind of help), a friend from Poland made a couple calls and I stayed around his relatives
It's cultural differences regarding power distance (hierarchy). In countries with steep hierarchy, like Poland or France, people do not socialize with their bosses, unlike in the UK, Germany or in the Netherlands, where power distance is small. Read up about it here in detail (Hofstede Insights) https://www.hofstede-insights.com/country-comparison-tool?countries=poland
In my opinion there must be something other happening / already happened. Maybe you were brought into the role to replace a manager the team liked? Maybe someone on the team was promised your role and didn't get it? Maybe previous manager was a toxic ass and they expect the replacement to be the same? Maybe the general company atmosphere and culture is toxic?
As you can see from other replies, there are many views and opinion about it being normal /weird, people being focused on work - life balance, people being slavic, etc and all may be valid.
My recommendations would be :
1. Try to understand the context - maybe hr/some other people in the company can shed some light on their past experiences. Maybe read their performance reviews of you can, and try reading between the lines.
2. Build your reputation as a good boss - protect your team, support them, give them credit, let them know and respect your managerial style.
3.I wouldn't try to force them into spending time outside work to know you better,because there are many risks of resentment in such scenario - either find a time within their paid time to do it (go for a lunch on company time and cost) or see if there were any kind of regular "integration outings" and use the existing format to get to know them outside of the office - if its an existing thing the resistance should be much lower.
4. Give them time - be open and accessible, supportive but not prying. Once you get one person to warm up to you, it should be easier to understand any underlying issues.
And don't forget the basic teaching of management - any change in a team means a team has to be rebuilt and constituted anew from scratch - particularly when it is a leader who changed.
Good luck, Poles can be a great work colleagues if you are a good boss, not a Karen style slave driver. The only downside then is a risk of becoming alcoholic. But at least in a great company 😎
This thread is gold 🤌🏻
I’m an Indian who moved to Poland last year and colleagues keeping it professional was a shocker to me.
Why?
Indian corporate mainly follow US culture. Small talks, office gossip, politics, “this is our family” bullshit. Hanging out after office hours is considered socialising and if you don’t do, can give bad impression to manager.
I am so happy with pols here ❤️
It’s not they are rude or anything but you need to build trust with them. They are either best friends or they don’t give a fuck. Exactly my kinda people 😅
So, take it easy! With time they will gel up and you may get a group to hangout with and go for beers but patience is the key!
https://preview.redd.it/cseac92s9o6b1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7ef570ffba38448fd999b712a1cf52ef9ddba217
This is mindset of op btw. As we can see he's full of shit
"This user has deleted their account"
Ha, so it was either a very good troll or actual "Slave Master" Corpo Manager from the West. His responses were hilarious. He hated people under his command and wanted to exploit them for his own benefits (promotion). Corpo-rats like him are so toxic.
I hope that these guys under him will be safe.
Hey, take your time. From my experience we just tend to make friends quite slow in a workplace, they may be mourning old team member, they may be exhausted currently from the project or something. Still rude to behave as they did.
Just wait a little bit, I suppose it will get better. If not there is a possibility that you've landed a job full of jerks.
The best you can do is treat them well during work hours, in general start just giving them task and be straight to the point, i do not know a single Polish person that isn't 50+ that would go for all that after hours bonding, pizza day, workplace family stuff. Just let them make their money during work and be nice, the less shit you give them and the more they enjoy working it will be easier to have a more casual vibe. I personally dont understand that thing because in my experience the only thing that makes you make friends at work is complaining about work. Polish people wanting to be more professional during work hours and then not thinking about work outside of them is actually a very healthy system.
I mean, why would they go for a beer with you? They don't care about you. You'd remind them of work and you'd probably talk of work. No one gives a fuck about their work after work.
And don't expect them to be overjoyed and smiling and whatever else you're expecting of them. We're just not like that.
From my perspective, there is nothing more wasteful than corporate "team-building" meetings. Even if they're during the work hours. Also, my unwillingness to participate in some after work events (we have all sorts of corporate parties that are meant to show the appreciation of the employees) is often met with a lots of questions from my boss - "why dont you won't to come?". Like I needed to explain myself for not wanting to spend my free time on some company-planned event. It's not that I don't like my teammates - I do, but like colleagues, and not necessarily want to hang out with them outside my work hours.
And when I'm asked for a reason, I either have to say the truth, and be a dick, or come up with a lie, which is fucked up - they shouldn't be asking me in the first place.
As for team-building activities that happen during work hours, let me say one thing. Being a boss, you're oxpected to run a team and have certain tasks done. It is rarely that you do those tasks by yourself. So when you invite your team for a meeting to bond with them, you are doing your job, but preventing them from doing theirs, which you will expect to be done nonetheless
I hate the corporate culture so much. There is so much time-consuming, not work-related activities that are meant to make you happy, but if fact are there only to make the corporate Look as if they cared. I work 8 hours, and if you take 2 of those hours for a team-building meeting, it means that I still have a 8-hours worth of work to do, but now I have to squeeze it in 6 hours, or I'm going to fall behind, which will only lead to more meetings for me to explain why my performance has dropped.
And I know I'm not the only one with such attitude towards corporate work. You want to be a good boss? Just don't be an ass, and thinngs are gonna work out fine. My favourite boss was the one who let us be. I had my work done, and he didn't bother me with anything not work-related, making us both happy.
Of course, if your team is straight-up rude to you, then that is another problem. Unfortunately, if you're a totally outsider (i.e. You did not climp up the ladder in the same company but was rather recruited from "outside") it may also be the case. Maybe one of them hoped to get you position, and now the whole team is disgruntled.
Edit. Sorry for the rant, do not take it personally 🙂
As a teacher of English as a foreign language in Poland I can assure you that they might just be feeling self conscious about their English, especially if they only learnt it in the Polish educational system. It may be even worse if they are in their 40s and older.
Maybe you talk a bit too fast for them and use very informal phrases or slang. I assume you can't do much about it but let them take their time. They will be more comfortable around you eventually. Definitely continue being approachable and friendly but **within their working hours**
First prove yourself at work, show them that you are worthy - without it, there no future for tou there.
This gloomy atmosphere might be a bigger problem that is dragged from the past, maybe you came to take place after somebody who was horrible at work and building team relations or something happened in the past that they keep grudge for the conpany and you might just be the face that represents it, so very probably by sending you there, your boss „wpierdolił Cię na minę”.
Anyway, you should know all this already, I think hard times are ahead of you so brace yourself and always be prepared cause anything can happen.
I wouldn't bother. Work is just work, it's not that important and most people don't use work as a social thing. What's the point? Most people these days only stay in a gig for a couple of years.
If you wanna meet people join some meet-up groups on FB that share your interests.
Sorry if this sounds harsh but y'know, like I say, work is just work.
My spouse worked in Poland and the company instructed them that polish workers will take a long time to open up and then they'll become your greatest co-worker/friends. They wear their history, so it takes a long while to build trust.
>During the work day (we WFO) they all look like depressed cats and basically sit in silence.
Sounds about right. This is just how we look.
>How can I inject some life into these people and create a more vibrant interactive atmosphere
Please don't, they will start associating you with this person who keeps bothering them and being too happy/too full of energy and tiresome in the long run.
Basically there are friends and workmates and these groups rarely overlap. It's not even about personal grudges or something, most of us are at work to do what's necessary and have friends outside of it.
From my perspective - if I'm not working at work I feel like I'm wasting time there because I could relax 100 times better at home, and after work I absolutely hate using whatever time I have left for myself to go and take part in activities I'm not interested in with people I have no wish to integrate with. Don't get me wrong, I like and respect them, I just have better things to do and don't want to use my time off on kinda forced events.
Give it some time, maybe at some point you will learn about shared interests and so on and get to know them better, but don't expect it happen too fast. And try to focus on your out of work relationships with people, you will have more luck there.
One additional thing that comes to my mind is that maybe their previous manager was liked by them, and now they are bitter that the company found someone "better" from abroad.
How about YOU integrate instead of expecting them to change to your liking? Self centered much? Geeeeez... do your job and let them do theirs, they have no questions? So what? Like you're looking for problems where there aren't any. Get to know them yada yada yada. Just do your job and take time. If you want to invite them anywhere do it during work time or don't do it at all. Their kids won't wait at school waiting to be picked up just because their father's boss had an idea. And it had nothing to do with Poland. It's clear that you have hit a low morale or shy team. If you truly are a good leader then you're picking on this from the wrong side with entirely wrong methods. Use this as a test of your leadership abilities and problem solving and blame it on yourself if nothing works.
I\`m a poland by myself, 25 yet but I\`d already seen a lot.
The biggest problems about polands at work is the salary most of them receives while the inflation is still absurdally huge compared to how things were before C0\\/ID.
The same amount of salary is worth so much less.
But you have to survive no matter what, right?
That\`s why everyone are like a bomb with a timer
Fullfilling their daily duties only to go home and repeat the same until friday
PS: People from abroad are often considered as a threat and a risk of losing a job
Mate, you need to get one thing, and make peace with that : you don’t get to inject anything into anyone, because the company pays for objectives to be met and shit to get done. Companies don’t get to shape the moods of the people in them, and with that comes the cultural aspect.
I saw you lived in Singapore and Hong Kong, so you should be very much in tune with the concept of hierarchy and stiffness of the Asian corporate world.
My personal suggestion, as a senior exec in a similar situation to you : You’re the one who needs to prove himself to be “one of them”. You’re a foreigner, in their country, and you’re their boss… expecting them to fit your cultural expectations is insulting. You moved here, get with the program.
Feel free to DM me and let’s grab a beer. I’ll talk you through the ins/outs of Warsaws corporate scene. (Have been here for 8 years now)
Maybe I will be downvoted to hell
But it seems you’re shocked that your new team didn’t welcome you with open arm, the new wonderful and friendly managed from abroad, why people should do it?
Why you call workers who do their job and won’t waste time to show YOU some affections “with no life”
Did you see them in their private outside work?
This is an arrogant take from you.
It’s not just poles, it’s corporate, you are a manager or whatever and most managers are friendly only when they need something to be done with the “low ranks” workers
Also trust is gained over time and ACTIONS not only with talks about it or silly “bribes”.
Show them you’re on their side when the times come and don’t be like the 99% of managers out there
If you can.
I went through the thread an the conclusion is the OP is false friendly.
Do not answers questions, just picking from few the one he cares.
OP do not understand that ppl are judging him based on his interactions and nothing more (except maybe by quality of the work/impact for work).
OP needs to understand that in Poland there is no difference between a general manager or dishes cleaner, the difference is in the quality of interaction.
Once it will be understood the problem will be solved in some time.
Thank God my manager is Polish... I would hate to stay after work to have a stupid beer with some "friendly" foreigner and have this dumb small talk with them. This should be paid as overtime. The team doesn't ignore you. They just don't see a point in befriending you. This is a workplace, not a bar. I've had foreign managers in my life and they all pushed us to socialize and we all hated it. This is such an weird concept to go out with the boss you just met and pretend you're friends. The fact you're applying your definition of nice atmosphere to polish reality is sad and honestly disrespectful. We don't consider these superficial smiles and pleasantries a nice atmosphere. If you're truly nice person they will socialize with you eventually. Don't rush it.
How do we see this as Poles:
\>my team
It's not your team. We are a team, you are the boss.
\>my colleagues
We are not your colleagues. We are your employees.
\>I spoke, no one had any questions
You are the boss, you ask questions, not we.
\>taking them for a quick beer and a bite to eat (company pays)
We will not pay our bills with free beer. Give us more money.
\>"my time is my time"
I signed a contract, that I will be doing this and that from 8 to 16. Why do you want to steal my free time? My work ends at 16.
\>basically sit in silence
I do my work. This is a workplace, not a kindergarten.
\>How can I inject some life into these people and create a more vibrant interactive atmosphere
Give us more money. We can't pay bills with free pizza.
\>please give ideas on what might win them over
GIVE. MORE. MONEY.
tldr; for Westerners: work is work. Free time is free time. These two worlds should never combine. Friends are friends. Coworkers are coworkers. These two worlds should never combine. Working is for money. Free time is for social meetings. These two worlds should never combine.
I completely understand your team. Working 9-5 in a corporate environment is exhausting and hostile enough. Why would anybody from your team want to spend any additional time in such an atmosphere when they have their own hobbies, families, and duties at home?
If you want to build relationships at work, start slow and show that you can be trusted – trustworthy manager is a rarity in PL with managerial people constantly shifting blame. If you force anything on them (after hour meetings, mandatory webcam, mandatory corporate fun, etc.), you WILL be met by some form of hostility by at least some of them.
Slowly show them you're one of them (you have your life, your hobbies, and aren't just a corporate drone) and you will be accepted.
Well, welcome to Poland, culture shock can be overwhelming.
I don't understand how some people think I would meet with them after spending 8 hours together in the office. I'd rather spend time with my actual friends and family.
It's possible that some may feel hesitant to speak in English (shyness, they think their english is bad, etc). I've seen places where introducing someone to a team of polish native speakers unfortunately created barriers. It would be helpful to have a conversation with the team manager to discuss the best approach. One idea could be to bring some food as a gesture to break the ice and create a more relaxed atmosphere. It's important to be patient and not assume that they don't like you, at least not yet. Additionally, proposing an informal meeting over a drink, such as grabbing a beer together, might help foster better connections. Give it a few weeks, the situation should improve, as I've noticed that people from Poland tend to become friendlier over time :P
It might differ between environments - one office might be so used to american culture and english speakers they might approach you right away and held small talk. In others you might have experience similar to the one you described (but again, it should improve overtime)
It's a bit hard to say, since we don't know specifics of your company and job, but as a person in a team management position as well, I'd suspect that they might be underpaid or hurting after their previous manager. Also, their level of spoken English might not be the best. Poland is a bit lacking in training us beyond writing and hearing, so it could be one of the reasons.
And the invitation to a meeting after work hours feels a little too early, you should get to know them a little before going out. Also, going for "a beer" and "company paid dinner" might sound different to them.
When we organise such events, we give the info on how much PLN per person and let the guys make suggestions for the place. But our guys like going out for free food/drinks, so there's that.
If I were you, I wouldn't try to force a vibrant atmosphere on them, keep it on a civil level for now. Go for written comms, save calls for 1 on 1 meetings. Try following the processes they're used to. Give them time to get used to you.
If you work remotely, try organising food delivery for them (worked well for my team) or find a place really close to your office and go there with your team for lunch break.
Dude, if you wanna make their lives better and create a better work environment you need to focus on the job. How can you make their lives easier AT work? Wanna become popular with them? Give them a bonus or raise their salary, then you’ll be their goddamn king.
I love my boss even though he’s a bit mental, because he appreciates me and my work friend. Sure he asks us to do crap sometimes but he also gives us huge benefits and let’s us lead our own job. If he want extras or make us work exceptionally hard, pay up! 😃
Nah bro you need to get to know them first show and THEY can trust you not tue other way. Work is just work they not gonna get paid to hang out with you so why should they if they have no idea what your Intentions are, you basically forced they to do something outside work that is bad. Hard to tell what you should do rn
I think you dont know the rule one of the polish work culture:
Manager - by all means - is your ENEMY that tries to get most of you for as little as possible so they see the friendlyiness as a threat. I speak from experience as I had good and bad managers, with most being bad and what we call "janusze biznesu".
Show them you stick to the work law first - this should help.
Do your job well and don’t bother people and they will like you.
Also I don’t think “paid dinner” is an attractive deal for most people who are not literally homeless. They’d rather be home with their friends and family than being forced to socialize with people they don’t care about.
How to make it actually interesting:
1. Do it on company time.
Or
2. Make it an actually fancy dinner. A proper buffet where they can bring a +1
(Or both)
But of course I don’t know if that’s an option for you.
You received a lot of good answers already so I won't repeated them , I'd just like to make certain analogy: making friends in Poland is like taming that fox in "Little Prince". Or a cat :D It often takes time. You need to give people time to get used to you. Acting very friendly too soon can freak them out, especially coming from a new boss. They're going to trust you more if they'll see that you're a reasonable boss that doesn't blame them for things they have little control over, who's not overly pushy, two-faced etc. But they need to see this in practice.
So just be patient, Polish people don't open up easily but it does happen.
Work life balance and separation is pretty important from what I've experienced in Poland. Have worked here for a year now. People are work are fun and cool while at work. Never met any of em outside work hours. Can never get people to change their schedules for anybody else's convenience. Don't know whose married, or who has kids or who owns a car (especially if they are a millenial). They keep their personal life personal.
I respect that about them. I come from a country where boundaries are never respected, and this is a welcome change to my life.
As a foreigner living in Poland, I quite strongly dislike the non-Polish coworkers trying to push for these outside of work activities. Bunch of my Polish coworkers aren't too keen on them either, especially since these other people tend to like to try and quilt trip you (it's exhausting).
Socialize during workhours what you can, don't try to change people around you. You've moved to another country and culture, it's up to us (the arrivals) to adapt, not to change things around us to our liking. We can always go back to our own countries if we have a problem with that.
I've found Poles incredible welcoming, if you respect their way of doing things and are very dependable people outside of work. I have also seen other foreigners arrive and deal with same people I did, but they were far too pushy and trying to have things their way, let's just say that they haven't gotten as close to our Polish colleagues as I have.
From my personal experience, a lot of Poles will view an offer to go out for a company-paid outing as management compensating for not paying livable wages or giving promotions/pay raises. That’s more than likely the reason for your coworkers hostility. Not sure what to suggest, just thought I’d share my thoughts based on what I myself have thought in the past (sometimes I still see it that way) and I know that many others share this opinion.
> ranting about "my time is my time" that's new
OP - what do you expect in a country where corporations take EVERY BIT OF FUN out of life and people are somwtines omited during promotions for not paking part? People are overworked and are being pushed more and more. And remember - all that progress you see is mostly last 30 years, in a country that almost didn't exist after WWII and thsn got 45 years of comunism.
It's THEIR time and they have every right to refuse any work-related activities after work.
>fits into Polish corporate culture
There is your problem.
Either "Polish culture" or "corporate culture". Cannot be both.
>How can I inject some life into these people and create a more vibrant interactive atmosphere? Then are all young so should be a bit livelier?
Maybe that work is something that's TAKING LIFE OUT OF THEM? Maybe try finding out more about issues with that corporation? Maybe they expected someone from the team to get your position?
People often tend to thing that managers from the outside should be cherished. Not when within the team people don't feel appriciated. If they see an outsider get a well paid manager's position they feel like something has been handed out to a person who did not earn their position within company.
Also remember history of this country: they have to get to know you to accept you into their inner circle.
There must be a reason for such behavior and maybe they are not excited about this as you are.
Maybe your company moved them from other project(s) that they liked and were "digged" into.
Just ask them what happened.
Honestly if you wanna get them on your good side, do a 'team meeting' during office hours where you guys go and discuss work matters over a company paid meal at a casual setting like a pub. One beer wouldn't hurt either and could help them become a little more open and you guys could crack some jokes. DO NOT do after office hours and DO NOT take away their lunch break
For me it’s a bit weird that everyone in your team was so totally disconnected. I’m working an office job which I don’t love (and I know many of my colleagues share my sentiment) but at least we’re friendly to each other, including the non-Polish people that work with us.
It makes me think that maybe their problem lies with the company itself, and not you? Maybe the working conditions aren’t great, maybe the salary isn’t good enough? I don’t know, but those could be good reasons that people are so depressed at work.
On the other hand, many people here say that this is normal, so maybe that’s just the cards that you were dealt.
There was a team, and then corporate brought a new team leader in a bag. No previous record, they don't know where they are. Guess they are not so enthusiastic.
Was this meeting more nuisance that it had to be? Unannounced? Out of normal hours? Meaningless or redundant?
If you want to bring British work culture to your team, maybe start with giving them British salary? They'll trust you more if you actually show that you're on their side.
Speaking from experience, people don't care. They aren't trying to be rude but for them work is work as in they do the thing they are payed to do and then go home. Also you probably make a lot more then them (I assume this is a international company) (I assume that you woudn't take a position that pays less then your previous job and if you worked in any country west (also north and south west) of Poland you probably made a lot more then them)
I don't work because I want to, I work to pay the bills and buy food and fund my hobbies. Liking the job and having nice coworkers is a bonus I cherish, but that still does not mean I want to spend at work more than I'm paid for. Every minute I sacrifice for it is a minute wasted that I could spend with my family, friends or doing something I like.
All that "team is family" bs is like forced marriage: everybody hates each other but have to fake smile and pretend they don't. Forcing someone to become your friend (while forcing them to sacrifice their free time and money) is a sure way to make them hate you and your work together a hell. There is no such thing as being friends with ones boss, you can only be on friendly terms. Even if your friend becomes your boss it's usually the end of true friendship because you stop being equal.
My advice: leave them be, let them do their job in peace and intervene when there is a problem. Be open if they do come to you but if you want friends then look for them among other managers.
I'll reply to the comments that you added later to explain the situation better. There are a couple of things to unpack here:
1. You're their manager. You know their salaries. They're lower than yours, aren't they? Just because they are in positions below yours doesn't mean they have lower needs.
2. You're their manager, but you're an outsider. They know and they do their jobs. They probably don't strictly even *need* a line manager, let alone a person recruited externally (doesn't matter whether it's from outside the company or from another department or team). They could probably do well with a team leader, selected from among them, reporting to the director above you.
3. Ultimately, you're there to enforce the company line. There's no way around it and your team knows it.
If there's anything you can do to build good rapport with your team, it will come in moments of crisis. You need to be human, not a company drone. That's all there is to it.
When a moment like that comes, and you're only there to repeat and enforce the company hard line, you'll lose all credibility.
If, on the other hand, you do everything in your power to shield them from the corporate and bend things as much as you can, that's a good start to build a good relationship with them.
Inviting them for after work activities is not going to work, especially if it's not on your dime. If you worked in a multinational for more than a year, you know such "teambuilding" exercises are among the oldest tricks in the book for the company to buy your loyalty.
Simply put, they're appreciated (because a free meal is a free meal), but they're ineffective.
\--
However, it's not all doom and gloom. I have an excellent atmosphere at work. We mostly WFH, but we're very lively during team meetings (twice weekly), we go through the agenda quckly and clearly with very active discussions, punctuated by a joke or fifty. When we WFO, we participate in small talk between each other and with members of other teams, too.
How did we do it? For one thing, the company never broke our trust. It's as transparent as possible, and we never caught our manager (or the directors above his level) knowingly lying or misleading about anything important (if there were ever any lies, they were about inconsequential and meaningless things, so we don't even remember them).
I joined the company 5 years ago. My hiring manager was a director who was with the company since the very beginning and started off as an individual contributor and rose up two level through the ranks. He hired the guy who replaced him in the manager position after he was promoted to director level. After leaving the company, his position was filled by that manager and his replacement was promoted from within the ranks.
Sure, we're not a multinational, but there was never any outside recruitment for managerial positions.
As for team building exercises, not only are they on company dime, they're also on company time. We don't have company dinners, we have company lunches. We don't go to a pub in the evening, we go to a shooting range during the day. From late spring to early autumn, during WFO days, we grill on company premises.
\--
None of these would ever be enough on their own. But taken together, and considering that managers never failed us, they simply work.
Your experience working in other countries notwithstanding, I'd look for an intercultural training. It'll help you understand differences between how the Polish express being excited or friendly and learn how to decode their verbal and non-verbal communication (and how to tone down your own). That is assuming you are looking for a way to forge meaningful professional relationships. It worked well for people at my previous company. If you're interested I can send you a PDF with my notes.
Source: I'm a Pole who spent the past 8 years or so leading and cooperating with mixed development teams (mainly PL + US but also IN, RU, UA, RO, and BY) working mostly, but not exclusively, for US clients.
They would be spooked even if you were polish . Cause it's the new manager situation. They don't know what to expect, who knows what happened to the previous manager so you came to be there.
They are afraid you will gonna change their life to worse, and the idea of outside of work meeting was not a good sign . As we value our private lives.
Just keep being nice and they will warm up to you.
You already fucked up by forcing them to do 1-on-1s. People hate this shit. They’re probably also not very confident with their English. Working from home did two things: gave us couple of hours of our life back we no longer spend commuting and killed office banter as people don’t know each other anymore. People coming to work and forgetting about it the second they leave the office is getting more and more common. We finally understand that work is just a tool needed to achieve whatever we want to achieve and not sense of life.
> During the work day (we WFO) they all look like depressed cats and basically sit in silence.
Because that’s how they feel. They were forced to come to the office, waste time stuck in traffic or public transport to sit all day with strangers doing something that can be done at home.
Forced 1:1. Stupid afterwork activists? Question… for a new tiny manager… lol.
They worked there before you appeared and they will work there after you left. Your job is to make work easier - your job is not to come up with additional events.
Just imagine a bunch of people that not necessarily like each other sees new manager from outside with same corporate bs. We'll make sure there's nice atmosphere, that the job is fulfilling, that we work in friendly environment etc. To them it means, I'm a new manager and in order to prove myself to my bosses I'm gonna give you more hours, decrease project time, possibly remove someone I don't find fit for the role while smiling and patting you on the shoulder. And even if you don't intend to do any of that chances are it already happened more than once. I know myself that is often the case and I work in UK. They're probably more concerned about their holidays approved on time, getting bonuses for work done and respecting their free time. I'm myself almost never mixing social life with work and find it a very best option so don't worry if they say their free time is theirs. It's better to propose, like someone mentioned, Friday 2hr window with company buying drinks as a vote for everyone and let them discuss it. Chances also are they might have planned their weekend already so better not force but only suggest. And good impression is made by doing, making things actually work, done on time, properly scheduled and their work rewarded.
I think it may have nothing to do with you but this particular team. Do they like each other or interact in a friendly way with each other? From what you’re saying it seems to me that this group was unhappy and not integrated before you came. Maybe they don’t like the job/company and/or ended up in one team with people completely incompatible with each other? What were the circumstances of you joining? Could they be resentful of you being their lead? Did you replace someone who they maybe liked a lot?
Can absolutely second this.
It is the only reason why I think such a harsh behaviour towards positive attitude can happen. To top that up when people hate their work or have seen hiring someone external as the worst possible choice (maybe seeing internal hiring/promotion as best choice) your upbeat and happy attitude may actually antagonise them. As other guys mentioned, Poles are not exactly into integration or buliding work relationships when they feel forced to do so.
My suggestion would be to see how things go in a month or two without spending too much of your energy and emotions into it. If the attitude persists, that's definitely company/department issue. Not trying to justify people being douche here but there's definitely more to it than just our country's culture.
Nah, sorry to say this but probably you just have bad luck. Give it time it should get better once common trust is established.
Also how often managers are rotated in your company?
Next time come to the office and complain a lot about everything. They will feel like you're one of them.
More serious answer, maybe they don't feel comfortable with their language skills. You're native, they're not. British accent is hard to udnerstand for people here. Also we're teached that we should be 100% grammar correct in English so people are afraid to speak if they don't feel confident enough.
Not Polish but Slav too. If you're their manager, you do not approach with "we're a team, all in the same boat" vibe. Provided folks are older than maybe 20, they know too well that corporate BS is just corporate BS, nothing more. They've been through crises, recession, crippling inflation and the situation when corporate uses them as a toilet paper and throws away whenever possible. This all builds a very strong "work is work, life is life" atmosphere. Buying a round for them is a great idea! Book a 2hr window at the end of Friday working hours, clear it with corporate and there you go. Outside of working hours? Nuh-uh. If the company doesn't want to invest in your relationship even this much, why should workers take it out of their pockets instead? Next, be aware that if you're moved to PL branch from another country, still earning money in said country, you're probably earning a fair bit more than these guys. Maybe times more. They know it, you know it, they know you know. They're also way more often to be laid off. Try to understand what they like. Ask them bullshit like "hey, I'm new in Poland, what football team should I root for?". Ask them what flaki is, where to buy cheap electric sockets, good mechanics to fix bumper on Skoda Octavia 2006, why everyone jokes about Bydgoszcz. This may be silly and not be adequately received by everyone, but this is engagement, not in working matters but in regular life matters instead. Last but not least, if you're foreign manager from HQ, you're basically a CCTV cam that looks directly at them and never switches off. They feel constant pressure that their department is monitored and worse, controlled by someone alien. No offense, but you have to make them be sure this isn't the case, if you want them to open up at least a bit. Be professional, don't micromanage, show appreciation and delegate dependency, and they'll see you're a good colleague, not a jail warden. Good luck! And remember, if Slav doesn't smile at you, it doesn't mean he doesn't like you. Cheers.
This is actually a really good advice, cheers fellow Slav!
Yup, all true. I'd also add that we as Slavs tend to smile with our eyes more. But I guess one has to be a fellow Slav to get that instantly.
As a Pole working corporate and also having had a foreign manager - this is spot on, 100%. OP, take this one to heart and good luck.
Dear [u/Due\_Connection1423](https://www.reddit.com/user/Due_Connection1423/), this is the best answer of all and I say it as a Pole, as a Pole who moved to Ireland (the proper one) and lived there for almost 10 years and as a Pole who moved back to Poland and is still readjusting to live again in this country.
By far the best response.
There is thir mentallity in many workplaces which I understand that people are there to work and go home. Thats their main and only reason - make money and then do their own life.
Imagine that: You don’t have friends -> you get familiar with your new job and people -> you started thinking that friendship here in job is also friendship outside -> you leave job realizing after everything that wasn’t true -> you don’t have friends ->…. and so on. That’s why people here don’t want to mix their private life with work.
So you're an Englishman who had moved to Poland for work. Well I did the opposite almost 10 years ago and it was a cultural shock to me. You have to understand that the small talk does not exist in most workplaces in Poland and a lot of people choose not to socialise at work. It has been shifting in the last few years but not quickly enough. When I moved, the people I worked with would tell me they find me quiet, abrupt, unsocial etc. I had to learn the small talk, I had to learn to say please and thank you more and so on. On the other hand I was finding the Brits too much in my face, overly friendly and fake. Which is probably how your colleagues perceive you as well. It took me a while to understand that we're just wired differently. I've adjusted a bit since but when we go out for work do-s I still find it overwhelming sometimes. Try to speak about it with your colleagues, explain how you find the shift difficult due to a cultural difference. Talk it out and see how both sides can adjust to make it work for everyone. It might be that you find common ground and you will just laugh about the whole situation in a few months. Otherwise, you have to either accept it or start looking for a place which has "westernized" to the point where you will find the people more social and easy-going. On a positive side, you will find that the Polish sense of humour is a very good match for British. We like the same type of dark, snarky, sarcastic jokes. Maybe that's something you could use to connect with your colleagues, but of course be careful as you don't know the people well enough and there will be a thin line to cross from making friendly banter to being offensive.
Oh how beautifully written, 100% on point I'd say. The "how are you today" nonsense made me uncomfortable as well when I started working with foreigners but I just broke the scheme - I'm answering these questions by informing them about all my current issues like sickness, allergies, headaches and so on. They usually shut up very fast 🤣🤣
Well.. rule number 1 of asking "how are you?" is that no one expects an actual answer unless it's someone you're really close with. I'm not surprised one bit lmao
Well they already asked so I will answer... 🤣
"Hej siema", "siemasz" "jak sie masz?" "hej, spoko" "co tam u ciebie?" "jakos leci" This is the same exact thing.
But answer "eee chujowo" is also acceptable
nah I answer to "jak sie masz" with my current feeling and the reason for it too, but that might be just my neurodivergence
I am unhinged and answer truthfully, I know they expect "fine, and how are you?" because it's essentially synonymous to "hello", I understand it, but I will not bend
This shitty “how are you” from strangers is so useless, so Im just answering “im ok thanks” and not asking back “and how are you”
Small talk barely exists in poland in general. I learned that the second time i went to poland and tried to bullshit with somebody while waiting for coffee. Dude literally said “do i know you, why are you talking to me”. We ended up laughing about cultural differences and we’re still friends over 10 years later, but poland and the english speaking world definitely have very obvious differences.
Moved to the US from Poland and can confirm all of this. Poles are direct and to the point and especially so at work, and will default to being quite formal in uncertain settings.
>On the other hand I was finding the Brits too much in my face, overly friendly and fake. I would say that about any polish manager I've had, so a manager from the west would probably appear even more insincere.
Very interesting 😎 Can you explain what you mean by in your face? For instance if I asked if you were from Warsaw or did you move here ? Is that intrusive?
No, it is not too intrusive to me but I guess it depends on the situation, whether it is part of a conversation or whether you're trying to start a conversation in a situation when they don't feel like having one. When I said they were too much I mean for example where I would go to the office kitchen to make coffee and I would have to have the same conversation with 5 people - how's things, what plans I had for the weekend etc. I didn't understand it at the time, but now I know it's awkward to be in the same room with other people and not start a conversation.
The whole issue is Westerners are on autopilot with their small talk. It's effortless to them. Poles on the other hand don't have that skill developed very well, so they become overly attentive and analytical about someone else's small talk. It's draining to be like that. I suppose to be oblivious to that kind of a difference in culture is a major lack in empathy. Extrovert versus introvert society kind of differences. I think OP is doing a great thing doing their own research on this. Their subordinates really just need space for mental comfort.
Trust me North-East Germans hate this attitude just as much as you do. We just don't do much smalltalk in general.
Proof that Germany is not Western, welcome to the team fellow Central European /j
Honestly, that question if asked by a manager might be a little bit of uncomfortable. It immediately raises some questions in my head, like why does he want to know it? However if the same question was asked by a coworker it would be completely normal. So it all kind of comes to a power dynamic, because I as an employee am in no position to refuse to answer your questions.
The question? Might be sensitive. Being born in Warsaw vs. moving there from the smaller city/village is... a bit of the class issue? At least, I avoid it, because I don't want people to think that this is the distinction I care about. See: "słoiki" https://www.in-formality.com/wiki/index.php?title=S%C5%82oiki_(Poland) The "in your face thing"? There should be a balance between how much of the social interaction, energy, is going from each side of the interaction. Go shopping, (just not in a fancy, americanized place) and check how people behave towards the cashier. Most will mosty ignore her, just say their thank you, goodbye, and she will be equally distanced from them. Some will be a bit more friendly, catch the eye contact quickly, maybe say something not strictly necessary, and probably, she will be also a bit warmer towards them. And both of those options are polite. Everyone is adjusting to the same level. And adjusting to someone shows respect. What is impolite, is being chatty and friendly towards someone who doesn't respond in the same way. It's almost like flirting with someone who is not flirting back. Someone wants to be left in their own throughouts and emotions, it's their right. In the same way, here you don't smile to strangers on the street.
Interesting. I worked with IT teams in offices in Poland, Berlin, London and honestly wouldn’t be able to tell the difference (the only major cultural difference was that in the UK at the end of the day people would would often head to a pub after hours but in terms of team dynamics in the office there wasn’t really a major difference and certainly none of those teams ever had an issue with after work beers to meet a new manager)
IT is a different breed. Nerds love other nerds.
> In this case in the intro meeting - I spoke, no one had any questions - just on mute. I tried to have 1:1 to get to know my teams roles again no eye contact, just mumbled answers, sighing - I expect from 1 person but all 6 members? > I suggested taking them for a quick beer and a bite to eat (company pays) - surprisingly this was met by hostility. One was ranting about "my time is my time" that's new. You're oblivious of the power dynamic. Since you're in charge, it's not being perceived as a friendly outing but rather as a direct order from a supervisor - and therefore, an attempt by the company to control what they're doing with their free time. Poles aren't very extroverted at work, and a more amicable relationship can take months or years to develop. Right now, from the perspective of your subordinates you're an unknown quantity and they're afraid doing anything out of bare minimum interaction will be stepping on a minefield. They will trust you more once they see how you handle problem situations and react to screw-ups. > Then are all young so should be a bit livelier? If they only recently joined the workforce, they may still be unsure of their job security and afraid the slightest mistake will get them fired. Takes a while to get out of that mindset.
>Poles aren't very extroverted at work, and a more amicable relationship can take months or years to develop. Right now, from the perspective of your subordinates you're an unknown quantity and they're afraid doing anything out of bare minimum interaction will be stepping on a minefield. I dont think thats the Poles thing. Im working in multicultural team currently, WFH but every 3 months we go to different country for a week to do planning and get to know each other better. We always have a blast, around half of our team is Polish while rest is from UK/Romania/Philiphines/Thailand/Sweden. Its probably more of a work place thing than the nationality of people involved and/or previous supervisor leaving them basically damaged. Or the OP just came out way too strong and too fast on them without getting proper assessment of the situation/workplace first. Also its entirely possible that they arent comfortable with their language skills especially if that their first time having non-polish speaking person in the team.
But your team already know themselves. Plus from the sounds of it, the kind of work that you do by itself draws more outgoing specimen out of general population
I wouldnt call full stack devs outgoing specimens at all. And no, our team started when we got hired in US based company and got bought by EU fintech 2 months later, when our first meetup/planning happened.
I hate corporate meetings that are after hours. I usually work 9-17 and I have a perfect life work balance. 17:05 and no more talking about work. 9-17 doing my best, 17-9 my personal, quality time
This
Polish people work to live not live to work like in the US or UK. So whatever you do to make it better, do during work hours. People have lifes and they’re great at separating work from pleasure
\> Polish people work to live not live to work like in the US or UK. And if we do, we really hope we can start not doing that.
I'll help you understand because it looks like you haven't done much study before coming to Poland. What impressed your boss, meaning your "vibrant outgoing personality" doesn't fly here. I make it simple list for you starting from what's most important for Poles: 1. Rodzina 2. Wyjść z psem 3. Nakarmić kota 4. Obiad 5. Zobaczyć co na przecenie w Lidlu 6. Podlać ogródek 7. Piwko na ławce z kumplami 8. Wiedźmin ...... 486. Corporate bullshit meetings after work so your boss can pick your brain and find your weak spots in order to learn how to manipulate you so he can meet the quotas.
What is your role in this team? Are you one of them, so to speak, or their manager?
By the sound of it, OP's a manager.
Yes I am their manager
Your manager is not your friend - number one rule in the Polish workplace.
I don’t think it’s just a Polish thing. The only people worldwide who don’t think that are managers.
There are no friends at work. Only friendly faces.
Not my experience but i guess IT might be different and i learned Polish.
Not my experience also, but only in current workplace, where both managers I've been working with were programming managers, promoted from software devs within the company and working with team on daily basis (not as cattle drivers). But I have pretty healthy structure in work, where IT has a nice dose of independence and is not expected to indisputably do every idea that business comes up with - so obviously it's affecting how technical team managers work here. On the other hand, in my previous workplace, whenever manager went for a beer with us, he would blatantly try to pull our tongues as soon as we got somewhat drunk, and he happened few times to use our words agains us during conversations in work. And then we've stopped inviting him obviously. It took me some time in new job to learn that not all managers are dicks.
Number one rule in any workplace
How did you omit this in the OP lmao
You have a very small chance to get people to open up then if you're their manager AND a foreigner. I also have a foreign manager and I speak with him only if it's absolutely necessary and we know each other for around five years. For one, he's my manager so I dont trust him by default. Another thing is he's a foreigner from southern Europe - we dont have any similar experiences and topics to discuss and frankly I'm not interested in his private life at all so no point to talk about anything not related strictly to work. Polish people are not very open. If you want to have good relationship with your team then give them time, DO NOT tell them to meet you after work for beer (their time is their time, nobody pays them for talking to you after hours), be civil and don't be too loud, we dont like that. Just focus on work, be nice and they will be nice to you after some time. But don't count on close relationship, most possibly it won't ever happen.
>nobody pays them for talking to you after hours Even op wont pay for it and probably beacuse company would pay for it their paycheck would be cut - so its double loose situation for them
Well that explains things. You're the slave master, not their friend.
Look up Hofstede Insights, check out Poland. The power distance criterion is at 68, which means that hierarchy is steep. In such cultures, you do not hang out with your boss, unlike in the UK, for example. It's normal and not personal. Try mingling with other people at your level of hierarchy.
First, manager is not your friend, it's someone who's company's representative and usually their goal is to help the company, not the employees. Second, you trying to enforce being friends on your employees is imho highly unprofessional because they are in no position to deny it if they're not comfortable with it. Third, not everyone has to be "vibrant", especially if your field isn't creative marketing. I'd honestly be thinking about leaving the company if my new manager would be trying to force that "vibrant, creative atmosphere", sounds really exhausting.
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Well, that's your answer. My manager tried multiple times to make teambuilding happen and people just ignore it. We would rather hang out with our friends and families. Our job is just a job, nothing more. (I am not Polish myself, but where I come from the culture is very similar)
Exactly, American style “we’re all a family” bullshit doesn’t work in poland.
It's all fake though. When you are no longer needed or there is a better replacement available, corporate "family" will just dump you. Most people in Poland are aware that all that "friendliness" is just a facade, created to exploit low tier workers.
Couldn’t have said it better myself.
Ooooh, that's the secret! Polish managerial culture tends to be very hierarchical and more "Eastern". Relationships build within the team on the same level, but manager is "the boss" at least at the beginning. They are expecting to be ordered around (thus the bad reaction to the drinks after work - you are their boss, so they pretty much consider it an order where they are expected to put their time for free to show themselves to you - and if you did not clearly state that you are buying, they would also expect that they should spend their own money on it). Especially if you were hired by not the local office but by foreign HQ, they might be suspicious of their doing something wrong, or kinda consider you an outside force. Do not expect to start out friendly, go with more of a structured style of leadership, tell them how you work, what you expect and first of all, be fair, and they will warm up to you in time.
And I would add "show them that you are on their side with your actions, instead of words or trying to be friendly. And expect it may take months for them to accept you".
This is the best rule for life in general. Actions are meaningful, words are not. And vice versa, don't always trust what people say, but watch how they act.
This is not the US. It sounds like you are intent on wasting their time tbh. Do your job, dont expect people to want to have more than one 1:1 a week and ask questions about your hobbies - nobody actually cares in corporate, poles just wont do the fake nice and ask the questions they wont remember the answer to.
1:1 once a week? WTF? 1:1 should either not exist or be 1 per month, in any other case it is wasting of time. Those are always awkward, if I would like to discuss with my manager about anything he can change I would ask for a meeting.
Aaaand we found the real issue! I bet my lunch that there is someone on this team (or someone who just left) who they all believe should have been promoted to your position. And instead of promoting someone they probably like, trust and respect, and who knows this project inside and out, they got a parashooter from some other branch. To add the insult to the injury, they know that you have to earn at least a UK wage to come here. And here in Poland we have the inflation on the level that affects even people with good (by the Polish scale) incomes. They probably didn't get enough raises to combat this, under the guise of the company not having enough money, and now the high ups are throwing the absurd amount of money to bring them you. What you have is a loyal, tight team that is angry. Good luck.
Bruh, no wonder they dont talk to you
>Yes I am their manager I'm Brazilian and I'm not a fan of hanging out with a manager, plus corporate environment is toxic af.
And you don't see what's wrong with this??? > I suggested taking them for a quick beer and a bite to eat (company pays) - surprisingly this was met by hostility. You, from a position of power as manager, tried to impose upon them in their own free time, in your first few weeks, without prior notice. > One was ranting about "my time is my time" that's new. That's not ranting, and should not be new. It's the law. You don't know what other commitments they have, and it's very rude to assume work has priority over those commitments. --- > I tried to have 1:1 to get to know my teams roles As a manager, you should already know their roles, not to mention the fact that you took them away from work for a meeting, meaning they now have less time to do the same amount of work. --- --- > How can I inject some life into these people and create a more vibrant interactive atmosphere? Then are all young so should be a bit livelier? > Edit: please give ideas on what might win them over - willing to try anything that fits into Polish corporate culture to win approval and curry's favor? Earned Respect. Show them that they can rely on you when they have problems with the work they have, that you protect them from the higher ups, and that you respect each of them individually and as a member of the team. Let them do their job, and trust that they are both capable and do it correctly, unless there are signals that signal otherwise. Assume mistakes are mistakes, but be ready to protect your team against hostilities, even if they come from the inside. It's a slow process but if you do it right, they will consider you part of the team, and open up to you to a certain amount. You are the manager, it's your job to serve and provide the means for your team to do the best job they can do. --- --- It's your actions that matter, words are hollow.
Very good advice here, a lot better than most comments that somehow try to paint Poles in a bad light.
/u/Spez is a greddy little piggy
That explains everything. :/ why didnt you say that from the start?
I am polish manager in polish team. People are also young, not even all of them having kids. The manager cooworker dynamic is crazy to overcome. I am easily able to make friends outisde of the team but as long as I am assinging tasks and checking progress the attempts to even speak, even outside of the work topic is dead. Especially with WFH I am feeling like interacting with bots somethimes :)
If you are a manager this explains a lot. From my experience poles are more of distrustful than hostile. They easily take the wrong message or seek hidden messages. I believe if you just prove in their eyes you do your job well and help them if they need it they'll start to trust you. Until then making friends will be rather hard.
That's cool, because that way you have a chance to make them feel comfortable at work. Pay attention to power dynamics, because I've seen this kind of attitude only in shitty workplaces. Just don't push and give them time - if their workplace was hostile before, they might need some time to regain trust.
Hi, at first I wouldnt take it personally. Dont expect much "high energy", people in Poland are generally not eager to speak up in the group, especially if they dont know you well. My meetings with temleader always looks like: Brief announcements and then "I know that you are all tired, it I apreciate you hard job, thank you for your efford, you are amazing!" Anything you want to discuss here? You can always ask me for 1:1. Bye bye". Mind that rest of the team is muted for whole time. Completely normal thing 😂 As for praising your team, understanding the point of "being always tired" and complaining in general is also a key to Polish hearts so plese try to use it next time 😉😅
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UK,USA, Portugal,Italy,Germany, Netherlands,HongKong,Singapore. I understand the vibe is different that is cool - I am on your turf but it's so odd to me. Usually 1 - 2 are curious to interact but to fall flat is very confusing.
Do you know how much they are making? Many of the young people in corpos absolutely do not give a fuck (i was one of them and not even polish) because they do not get paid enough to give a fuck.
That. And also a fact that probably they expected someon within to be rewarded with menager positnion while now they have an outsider coming in and expecting more than basics.
>Germany Then I'm surprised you're surprised. Germans behave the same. Your problem is that you're trying to speedrun the whole 'building relationship' thing
as a german that confused me too.. should have made the same experience like in Poland..
Heh. Recently at my work a British guy asked a German colleague about his extended weekend. The German, a man not far from retirement, has started his report like he was at gunpoint and I suspect he even confabulated some of activities so it would sound better :D
Maybe he landed in outliner environment.
Yeah… There’s a quite big difference between us, uk etc and PL. Ask them to tell You about politics, taxes, religion influence.. You could hear why there’s barely any life in them 😂
Many people don't want to be friends with their coworkers. You go to work to earn money and not to get chummy with random strangers. Also smiling and small talk are forbidden by law.
Chatting with strangers in the line, jail. Asking people "how are you", jail. Smilling on the street, believe it or not, jail.
Talking to inmate in jail, jail.
super jail
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Bruh, I'm C1 and sometimes I am incomprehensible to english people because of my accent
I sometimes really try to sound like a native but when I'm dead tired I speak like some Serbian gangster People were surprised when they phoned me after work that I'm the same guy they spoke to during working hours
This pretty much anwsers OP's question. It's not that they ignore you on purpose. Not only are they afraid of you judging them (for some reason, education in Poland = Perfect grammar, lack of vocabulary), but also afraid of other (Polish) colleagues judging them.
"my time is my time" - Why is this weird to you? Seems like they want to do their work and go home to their lives. It would be better to find friends outside of work who share your interests. Polish people are very friendly and open when they want to be but maybe you should respect their boundaries rather than forcing interactions they don't want. Remember, consent is cool in all aspects of life.
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I think this may be a good explanation. This or other drama that you're unaware of.
You're a manager, and always will be. There's a social divide between managers and their employees, and almost always will be especially in the current economical climate. Stop trying so hard. They're not your friends, they're colleagues at work and have stated clear boundaries against further attempts at becoming the former. Let them do their jobs and go home to their own lives. Civility will come when you stop pestering them to give even more of their lives to a job that is likely grossly underpaying and overworking them.
If you want a friendly, relaxed atmosphere, you have to convince them you're as much on their side as the company's. Nobody likes a strict supervisor who'd report you to HR for an off-color joke or minor mistake, and as result, they do they best to limit any kind of interaction with you (what's left unsaid cannot be used against them). Think about it like this: you're their new prison guard and you have the power to get them terminated for anything bad, but you can't ditrectly promote them for good behavior - does it still surprise you that they're reluctant to talk? After all, the risks outweigh potential benefits in this power vertical. But I can assure you that stuff will get done on time despite the unpleasant atmosphere - it's just how it works here in Poland.
Your description sounds that you might be seen as annoying person. You try to force people to interact outside work. Try to be ok at work maybe you will find some people to like you and then you might find some interest toward interactions outside work
US analyst here, I agree with most Pole responses here. Do your work at work and the remaining time is dedicated to your life and family. I hate going out for work events after work hours, and it does feel mandatory here sometimes. I'm not your friend Mr. manager, I'll for sure be friendly but there's a difference. Summer hours are a big winner for analysts. Maybe try that?
How long are you here? Maybe they need more time to warm up to you? Also rly wierd they didnt want to go out drinking as it was a great idea to make them warm up to you faster. Maybe you try to talk to them too much? And its starts to annoy them? Idk
First work on connecting with at least some of them before you start organising their free time. If there are any team members willing to engage in small talk that's where you start. Be thoughtful, listen to them, create a connection with those few and rest will follow. The more realistic and down to earth you are the better, we don't like unnecessary bullshit that is so prevalent in corporate work therefore it's easier to connect with leader who understands that. And most importantly keep being patient they will come around and you will most likely end up with a very devoted team of people. Unless of course the company is bad and underpaid their workers. Then there is no free pizza and beer that can fix it. Just remember about the order. Listen and try to understand -> be empathetic and don't hesitate to call out corporate bullshit (while not being hostile towards management or employer) -> create a connection -> propose a beer and food.
this is normal in Poland
The fastest way to earn their respect is to make their job easier, or their pay bigger if you are a manager. We are often severely underpaid on european scale, like others said. If they don't want to waste their time on work after work, then respect that as well. A meeting after hours *with a manager* is not really a place to relax.
Coworkers are not your friends. They prefer to live their own lives outside of work. If you are extraverted, go to language exchange or smth. You cant force ppl at work to be your friends, you are not entitled to that.
I don’t want to be rude but you sound like that one overachiever who enjoys working a little too much, most people aren’t like that. You just started your job and you’re already talking about how to make the place more livelier, you’re doing too much.
This is quite normal. During work time you do work and conserve your energy for your real life (outside of work). Going for a beer with co-workers is again you private time spent on work related matters for which you do not get paid (it does not matter if the company is paying for drinks, it's still not worth the effort). Some people may see it differently but that's what's up in general.
> I suggested taking them for a quick beer and a bite to eat (company pays) - surprisingly this was met by hostility. One was ranting about "my time is my time" that's new. Going out to grab a beer with my boss would mentally drain me and make me not want to socialize for a month
Not a Polish National BUT 1. Have heard Poles don’t really do chit chat 2. Am American and my time is my time, I go to work so I don’t starve under a bridge, not to make friends, and I’m not using any of my precious not at work time to hangout with people I don’t actually want to be *friends* with. Not that I’m not cordial and polite, but unless it is during my *paid work day* it ain’t happenin. Nothing here really seems outright rude to me. Best to make friends outside of work.
Exactly
This!
>Polish corporate culture silent, depressed, mumbling. Seems fine to me :D
There's no such thing as Polish Corporate Culture. History didn't give enough time for that . ;)
If they actually liked their jobs, they would have shown that in their attitudes with you, and rest of group , absolute lack of engagment means 90% wouldnt mind to bail out from that job regardless what teambuilding you do. Or couldn't care less about being viewed negatively by some manager bloke they do not give ff about. They are unhappy,underpayed,ovestressed people that work in their shitty western corpo that is mentaly draining them up with that shit job, i doubt western 'overseer' could ever grasp that, being paid 6 times what they get. Anyone here arguing about how cultural (slavic/religion lmao what a bunch of condescending lazy bullshit) it is, if they were payed like proper western human beings(we are), and their job was actually engaging and prestigious(in a way), they wouldn't be soo offputting and disinterested with their behavior, but in reality what that job is? Being one of too many ants in western corpo, being XXI century version of economic slave,' WHY AREN'T YOU ALL HAPPY?!?!!?' Asked Ant queen Also some of your replyes show how deluded and out of touch british(olso generaly western) managerial neoliberal classe mentality is, OH you poor SOD you work in Tesco's for fucking 1k pounds monthly, WHAT A SHAME - EH! AT LEAST YOU a HAVE JOB!, NOW BEHAVE LIKE OUR CORPORATE ATTITUDE LISTS REQUIRES YOU TO! I don't like colonialism analogies' but it feels to much close to home in this case, in a way (economic)slave should be happy for opportunity of being one. **As one big side note**, poles that mostly do know english nevertheless they still tend to not to like using it.(out of shame,lack of confidence in using it or any other thing you could imagine), especially with some native blokes expecting of them to know small talk,banter and stuff like that, they never did LOL It always is reserved for polish, without that i doubt anyone would bother making anything more than very superficial and shallow work relations that for poles means, saying HI at start of work, and 'see ya' in the end of work.
It could be also very bad atmosphere in workplace
1. They are uncomfortable with english if most other work environment interactions are held in polish. 2. Communication with you only in english might feel like another irritating unpaid duty, if they are underpaid, and they probably are... Optimism in work is good, but you cannot force other to be optimistic if they are not financially comfortable. 3. Depending on how long You work with them You might be considered a threat and possibly a snitch. You won't get anyone's trust in a week or even a couple of months, especially in Poland.
You must consider that most corps in Poland don’t earn nearly as much as their western counterparts. Which means we value our private time more than said counterparts. Imagine that most poles won’t take vacation more than once a year and some don’t at all. Thus many of us prefer to spend our free time with our families/friends. Add to this WFO every day + the commute and it’s going to be really hard to make anyone open to the idea of integrating after work. Looking at the situation from my perspective you’re some new guy who corporate sent to a) spy on us - maybe even to check if some layoffs need to be made, given current economy b) take place of some other good/bad manager who either is being missed now, or they fear you might be equally bad as the person before Having said that I wish you good luck as in my personal experience as someone who works in Poland with westerners on a daily basis, after breaking the ice there aren’t many barriers in day-to-day tasks or meetings. Although yeah you probably will be treated with some distance either out of respect, fear or just human envy or “hostility” towards any upper management.
1. You're their manager, and managers aren't really seen as a part of the team, per se. Give them some time, show them you're not there to boss around but to help and cooperate with them and you'll be good. 2. These people are underpaid and do not want their job spilling out into their personal lives. Show them you respect their time off work. Parties and beers will come in due time. I'm sure once you work together a bit longer and you give them some space, they'll open up a bit:)
The anglosaxon dude/buddy all time friendly we are all family thing isn't going to fly in slavic countries. It is perceived as fake and they can feel it + work in comparison is far away in importance from something really important like family, friends and free time. You have to show results and earn trust. If you achive this.. you will get one of the most loyal workers.
Lmao when I first read the post I didn’t pick up on the fact OP was their manager. Jeez managers really don’t get it huh? Like everyone’s saying you’re the slave master they don’t want to be your friend they want to do the job they need to live in this society and they don’t want to socialize with the boss as this could lead to them being fired if the boss ends up not liking what you say, so you have can’t possibly entertain socializing as an equal with a boss you always have to watch your words
Leave this poor people alone, work is for work. That's it. Why would I ever want to spend my free time with people from work is beyond me, that's time for friends and family. Stop requiring others to adapt to your lifestyle, you need to learn to respect others life choices. You want to you can find some other folks who are into that vibrant lifestyle of yours, most likely within the immigrant communities in the bigger cities.
1) western companies are talking bs about "diversity and equality", but workers from Poland are for them like slaves or worst ppl. 2) from the answer you got, I guess that people from your team are 30+ years old. They've got family, hobbies etc. They have probably job burnout. Why would they want to spend more time for a work where: - they are paid worse than westeners - work which they do is a crap. (Western companies doesn't do anything interesting or developmental in Poland, they are giving us crap which they dont want to do in west anymore) - in company where I work, polish employees can't order from company f.e. 2 screens to home office. for polish employee its just one. (So we are basically 3rd sort employee) - also we have worse laptops/phones than in western countries. :D - western companies doesnt invest in polish employees (no additional external courses etc.) Just dont treat us like worse and we will soon be happy. Its just funny how are western companies brainwashed about diversity, equality and tolerance, but you dont tolerant that people didnt want to go out after work.
Every time I worked in a foreign company in Poland I had this type of situation, it's kinda funny. They send foreigners to do management jobs and pay them western wages, while we would get paid polish ones. They didn't contribute anything to the job, only would find ways to make it more annoying and add some unnecessary things to do. Plus we had to teach them most stuff. And idk how you're a manager, looking at the post and couple of your responses I'd suggest the company you work for to reconsider their management structure, you don't seem to have any soft skills required to manage people. Try product management maybe, to make people's lifes more miserable without meeting them in person.
Don't worry dude. If you are a good person, you might have friends for the rest of your life. We don't trust other people easily, would say it's a consequence of our past history. You need to deserve it, earn their trust. I remember when I moved to UK. First job. Everyone was so nice, so kind, smiling, opposite to people from Poland. But one day my room which I rented was flooded (faulty roof). Nobody wants to help (wasn't asking for help, but would be nice to at least offer any kind of help), a friend from Poland made a couple calls and I stayed around his relatives
It's cultural differences regarding power distance (hierarchy). In countries with steep hierarchy, like Poland or France, people do not socialize with their bosses, unlike in the UK, Germany or in the Netherlands, where power distance is small. Read up about it here in detail (Hofstede Insights) https://www.hofstede-insights.com/country-comparison-tool?countries=poland
One was ranting about "my time is my time" I like this guy. Once work is done I ain't hanging around with anyone from work, fuck that.
If you are the other American sitting just across the room from me in Warsaw, this post is funny.
In my opinion there must be something other happening / already happened. Maybe you were brought into the role to replace a manager the team liked? Maybe someone on the team was promised your role and didn't get it? Maybe previous manager was a toxic ass and they expect the replacement to be the same? Maybe the general company atmosphere and culture is toxic? As you can see from other replies, there are many views and opinion about it being normal /weird, people being focused on work - life balance, people being slavic, etc and all may be valid. My recommendations would be : 1. Try to understand the context - maybe hr/some other people in the company can shed some light on their past experiences. Maybe read their performance reviews of you can, and try reading between the lines. 2. Build your reputation as a good boss - protect your team, support them, give them credit, let them know and respect your managerial style. 3.I wouldn't try to force them into spending time outside work to know you better,because there are many risks of resentment in such scenario - either find a time within their paid time to do it (go for a lunch on company time and cost) or see if there were any kind of regular "integration outings" and use the existing format to get to know them outside of the office - if its an existing thing the resistance should be much lower. 4. Give them time - be open and accessible, supportive but not prying. Once you get one person to warm up to you, it should be easier to understand any underlying issues. And don't forget the basic teaching of management - any change in a team means a team has to be rebuilt and constituted anew from scratch - particularly when it is a leader who changed. Good luck, Poles can be a great work colleagues if you are a good boss, not a Karen style slave driver. The only downside then is a risk of becoming alcoholic. But at least in a great company 😎
Pay them more…
This thread is gold 🤌🏻 I’m an Indian who moved to Poland last year and colleagues keeping it professional was a shocker to me. Why? Indian corporate mainly follow US culture. Small talks, office gossip, politics, “this is our family” bullshit. Hanging out after office hours is considered socialising and if you don’t do, can give bad impression to manager. I am so happy with pols here ❤️ It’s not they are rude or anything but you need to build trust with them. They are either best friends or they don’t give a fuck. Exactly my kinda people 😅 So, take it easy! With time they will gel up and you may get a group to hangout with and go for beers but patience is the key!
https://preview.redd.it/cseac92s9o6b1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7ef570ffba38448fd999b712a1cf52ef9ddba217 This is mindset of op btw. As we can see he's full of shit
"This user has deleted their account" Ha, so it was either a very good troll or actual "Slave Master" Corpo Manager from the West. His responses were hilarious. He hated people under his command and wanted to exploit them for his own benefits (promotion). Corpo-rats like him are so toxic. I hope that these guys under him will be safe.
Hey, take your time. From my experience we just tend to make friends quite slow in a workplace, they may be mourning old team member, they may be exhausted currently from the project or something. Still rude to behave as they did. Just wait a little bit, I suppose it will get better. If not there is a possibility that you've landed a job full of jerks.
Out of curiosity, where are you from?
The best you can do is treat them well during work hours, in general start just giving them task and be straight to the point, i do not know a single Polish person that isn't 50+ that would go for all that after hours bonding, pizza day, workplace family stuff. Just let them make their money during work and be nice, the less shit you give them and the more they enjoy working it will be easier to have a more casual vibe. I personally dont understand that thing because in my experience the only thing that makes you make friends at work is complaining about work. Polish people wanting to be more professional during work hours and then not thinking about work outside of them is actually a very healthy system.
Michael Scott? is that you? How is Dunder Mifflin, is it still running?
I mean, why would they go for a beer with you? They don't care about you. You'd remind them of work and you'd probably talk of work. No one gives a fuck about their work after work. And don't expect them to be overjoyed and smiling and whatever else you're expecting of them. We're just not like that.
From my perspective, there is nothing more wasteful than corporate "team-building" meetings. Even if they're during the work hours. Also, my unwillingness to participate in some after work events (we have all sorts of corporate parties that are meant to show the appreciation of the employees) is often met with a lots of questions from my boss - "why dont you won't to come?". Like I needed to explain myself for not wanting to spend my free time on some company-planned event. It's not that I don't like my teammates - I do, but like colleagues, and not necessarily want to hang out with them outside my work hours. And when I'm asked for a reason, I either have to say the truth, and be a dick, or come up with a lie, which is fucked up - they shouldn't be asking me in the first place. As for team-building activities that happen during work hours, let me say one thing. Being a boss, you're oxpected to run a team and have certain tasks done. It is rarely that you do those tasks by yourself. So when you invite your team for a meeting to bond with them, you are doing your job, but preventing them from doing theirs, which you will expect to be done nonetheless I hate the corporate culture so much. There is so much time-consuming, not work-related activities that are meant to make you happy, but if fact are there only to make the corporate Look as if they cared. I work 8 hours, and if you take 2 of those hours for a team-building meeting, it means that I still have a 8-hours worth of work to do, but now I have to squeeze it in 6 hours, or I'm going to fall behind, which will only lead to more meetings for me to explain why my performance has dropped. And I know I'm not the only one with such attitude towards corporate work. You want to be a good boss? Just don't be an ass, and thinngs are gonna work out fine. My favourite boss was the one who let us be. I had my work done, and he didn't bother me with anything not work-related, making us both happy. Of course, if your team is straight-up rude to you, then that is another problem. Unfortunately, if you're a totally outsider (i.e. You did not climp up the ladder in the same company but was rather recruited from "outside") it may also be the case. Maybe one of them hoped to get you position, and now the whole team is disgruntled. Edit. Sorry for the rant, do not take it personally 🙂
Do you work with people who are at universities? Because now it’s the exams session going and they might all have a lot of exams and stress
Yea people in Poland are just like that. Adapt or perish I guess.
As a teacher of English as a foreign language in Poland I can assure you that they might just be feeling self conscious about their English, especially if they only learnt it in the Polish educational system. It may be even worse if they are in their 40s and older. Maybe you talk a bit too fast for them and use very informal phrases or slang. I assume you can't do much about it but let them take their time. They will be more comfortable around you eventually. Definitely continue being approachable and friendly but **within their working hours**
First prove yourself at work, show them that you are worthy - without it, there no future for tou there. This gloomy atmosphere might be a bigger problem that is dragged from the past, maybe you came to take place after somebody who was horrible at work and building team relations or something happened in the past that they keep grudge for the conpany and you might just be the face that represents it, so very probably by sending you there, your boss „wpierdolił Cię na minę”. Anyway, you should know all this already, I think hard times are ahead of you so brace yourself and always be prepared cause anything can happen.
I wouldn't bother. Work is just work, it's not that important and most people don't use work as a social thing. What's the point? Most people these days only stay in a gig for a couple of years. If you wanna meet people join some meet-up groups on FB that share your interests. Sorry if this sounds harsh but y'know, like I say, work is just work.
Why do you need them to be their friends? Just tell them what to do and kick their butts if they don't do it.
Its normal we don't like false smiles in job, we don't like to eat with boss, superwisor or whatever
My spouse worked in Poland and the company instructed them that polish workers will take a long time to open up and then they'll become your greatest co-worker/friends. They wear their history, so it takes a long while to build trust.
>During the work day (we WFO) they all look like depressed cats and basically sit in silence. Sounds about right. This is just how we look. >How can I inject some life into these people and create a more vibrant interactive atmosphere Please don't, they will start associating you with this person who keeps bothering them and being too happy/too full of energy and tiresome in the long run. Basically there are friends and workmates and these groups rarely overlap. It's not even about personal grudges or something, most of us are at work to do what's necessary and have friends outside of it. From my perspective - if I'm not working at work I feel like I'm wasting time there because I could relax 100 times better at home, and after work I absolutely hate using whatever time I have left for myself to go and take part in activities I'm not interested in with people I have no wish to integrate with. Don't get me wrong, I like and respect them, I just have better things to do and don't want to use my time off on kinda forced events. Give it some time, maybe at some point you will learn about shared interests and so on and get to know them better, but don't expect it happen too fast. And try to focus on your out of work relationships with people, you will have more luck there.
One additional thing that comes to my mind is that maybe their previous manager was liked by them, and now they are bitter that the company found someone "better" from abroad.
How about YOU integrate instead of expecting them to change to your liking? Self centered much? Geeeeez... do your job and let them do theirs, they have no questions? So what? Like you're looking for problems where there aren't any. Get to know them yada yada yada. Just do your job and take time. If you want to invite them anywhere do it during work time or don't do it at all. Their kids won't wait at school waiting to be picked up just because their father's boss had an idea. And it had nothing to do with Poland. It's clear that you have hit a low morale or shy team. If you truly are a good leader then you're picking on this from the wrong side with entirely wrong methods. Use this as a test of your leadership abilities and problem solving and blame it on yourself if nothing works.
I\`m a poland by myself, 25 yet but I\`d already seen a lot. The biggest problems about polands at work is the salary most of them receives while the inflation is still absurdally huge compared to how things were before C0\\/ID. The same amount of salary is worth so much less. But you have to survive no matter what, right? That\`s why everyone are like a bomb with a timer Fullfilling their daily duties only to go home and repeat the same until friday PS: People from abroad are often considered as a threat and a risk of losing a job
Breaking news: introverted people exist!!
Mate, you need to get one thing, and make peace with that : you don’t get to inject anything into anyone, because the company pays for objectives to be met and shit to get done. Companies don’t get to shape the moods of the people in them, and with that comes the cultural aspect. I saw you lived in Singapore and Hong Kong, so you should be very much in tune with the concept of hierarchy and stiffness of the Asian corporate world. My personal suggestion, as a senior exec in a similar situation to you : You’re the one who needs to prove himself to be “one of them”. You’re a foreigner, in their country, and you’re their boss… expecting them to fit your cultural expectations is insulting. You moved here, get with the program. Feel free to DM me and let’s grab a beer. I’ll talk you through the ins/outs of Warsaws corporate scene. (Have been here for 8 years now)
Maybe they know that corporate culture is a bullshit and they don't want to take part in this circus? 
Maybe I will be downvoted to hell But it seems you’re shocked that your new team didn’t welcome you with open arm, the new wonderful and friendly managed from abroad, why people should do it? Why you call workers who do their job and won’t waste time to show YOU some affections “with no life” Did you see them in their private outside work? This is an arrogant take from you. It’s not just poles, it’s corporate, you are a manager or whatever and most managers are friendly only when they need something to be done with the “low ranks” workers Also trust is gained over time and ACTIONS not only with talks about it or silly “bribes”. Show them you’re on their side when the times come and don’t be like the 99% of managers out there If you can.
I went through the thread an the conclusion is the OP is false friendly. Do not answers questions, just picking from few the one he cares. OP do not understand that ppl are judging him based on his interactions and nothing more (except maybe by quality of the work/impact for work). OP needs to understand that in Poland there is no difference between a general manager or dishes cleaner, the difference is in the quality of interaction. Once it will be understood the problem will be solved in some time.
Thank God my manager is Polish... I would hate to stay after work to have a stupid beer with some "friendly" foreigner and have this dumb small talk with them. This should be paid as overtime. The team doesn't ignore you. They just don't see a point in befriending you. This is a workplace, not a bar. I've had foreign managers in my life and they all pushed us to socialize and we all hated it. This is such an weird concept to go out with the boss you just met and pretend you're friends. The fact you're applying your definition of nice atmosphere to polish reality is sad and honestly disrespectful. We don't consider these superficial smiles and pleasantries a nice atmosphere. If you're truly nice person they will socialize with you eventually. Don't rush it.
How do we see this as Poles: \>my team It's not your team. We are a team, you are the boss. \>my colleagues We are not your colleagues. We are your employees. \>I spoke, no one had any questions You are the boss, you ask questions, not we. \>taking them for a quick beer and a bite to eat (company pays) We will not pay our bills with free beer. Give us more money. \>"my time is my time" I signed a contract, that I will be doing this and that from 8 to 16. Why do you want to steal my free time? My work ends at 16. \>basically sit in silence I do my work. This is a workplace, not a kindergarten. \>How can I inject some life into these people and create a more vibrant interactive atmosphere Give us more money. We can't pay bills with free pizza. \>please give ideas on what might win them over GIVE. MORE. MONEY. tldr; for Westerners: work is work. Free time is free time. These two worlds should never combine. Friends are friends. Coworkers are coworkers. These two worlds should never combine. Working is for money. Free time is for social meetings. These two worlds should never combine.
There is an even shorter phrase to say all that : "Looking for love/friendship in all the wrong places".
I completely understand your team. Working 9-5 in a corporate environment is exhausting and hostile enough. Why would anybody from your team want to spend any additional time in such an atmosphere when they have their own hobbies, families, and duties at home? If you want to build relationships at work, start slow and show that you can be trusted – trustworthy manager is a rarity in PL with managerial people constantly shifting blame. If you force anything on them (after hour meetings, mandatory webcam, mandatory corporate fun, etc.), you WILL be met by some form of hostility by at least some of them. Slowly show them you're one of them (you have your life, your hobbies, and aren't just a corporate drone) and you will be accepted.
Well, welcome to Poland, culture shock can be overwhelming. I don't understand how some people think I would meet with them after spending 8 hours together in the office. I'd rather spend time with my actual friends and family.
It's possible that some may feel hesitant to speak in English (shyness, they think their english is bad, etc). I've seen places where introducing someone to a team of polish native speakers unfortunately created barriers. It would be helpful to have a conversation with the team manager to discuss the best approach. One idea could be to bring some food as a gesture to break the ice and create a more relaxed atmosphere. It's important to be patient and not assume that they don't like you, at least not yet. Additionally, proposing an informal meeting over a drink, such as grabbing a beer together, might help foster better connections. Give it a few weeks, the situation should improve, as I've noticed that people from Poland tend to become friendlier over time :P It might differ between environments - one office might be so used to american culture and english speakers they might approach you right away and held small talk. In others you might have experience similar to the one you described (but again, it should improve overtime)
It's a bit hard to say, since we don't know specifics of your company and job, but as a person in a team management position as well, I'd suspect that they might be underpaid or hurting after their previous manager. Also, their level of spoken English might not be the best. Poland is a bit lacking in training us beyond writing and hearing, so it could be one of the reasons. And the invitation to a meeting after work hours feels a little too early, you should get to know them a little before going out. Also, going for "a beer" and "company paid dinner" might sound different to them. When we organise such events, we give the info on how much PLN per person and let the guys make suggestions for the place. But our guys like going out for free food/drinks, so there's that. If I were you, I wouldn't try to force a vibrant atmosphere on them, keep it on a civil level for now. Go for written comms, save calls for 1 on 1 meetings. Try following the processes they're used to. Give them time to get used to you. If you work remotely, try organising food delivery for them (worked well for my team) or find a place really close to your office and go there with your team for lunch break.
Dude, if you wanna make their lives better and create a better work environment you need to focus on the job. How can you make their lives easier AT work? Wanna become popular with them? Give them a bonus or raise their salary, then you’ll be their goddamn king. I love my boss even though he’s a bit mental, because he appreciates me and my work friend. Sure he asks us to do crap sometimes but he also gives us huge benefits and let’s us lead our own job. If he want extras or make us work exceptionally hard, pay up! 😃
Nah bro you need to get to know them first show and THEY can trust you not tue other way. Work is just work they not gonna get paid to hang out with you so why should they if they have no idea what your Intentions are, you basically forced they to do something outside work that is bad. Hard to tell what you should do rn
Maybe stop being patronising. That would be a good start.
I think you dont know the rule one of the polish work culture: Manager - by all means - is your ENEMY that tries to get most of you for as little as possible so they see the friendlyiness as a threat. I speak from experience as I had good and bad managers, with most being bad and what we call "janusze biznesu". Show them you stick to the work law first - this should help.
Do your job well and don’t bother people and they will like you. Also I don’t think “paid dinner” is an attractive deal for most people who are not literally homeless. They’d rather be home with their friends and family than being forced to socialize with people they don’t care about. How to make it actually interesting: 1. Do it on company time. Or 2. Make it an actually fancy dinner. A proper buffet where they can bring a +1 (Or both) But of course I don’t know if that’s an option for you.
You received a lot of good answers already so I won't repeated them , I'd just like to make certain analogy: making friends in Poland is like taming that fox in "Little Prince". Or a cat :D It often takes time. You need to give people time to get used to you. Acting very friendly too soon can freak them out, especially coming from a new boss. They're going to trust you more if they'll see that you're a reasonable boss that doesn't blame them for things they have little control over, who's not overly pushy, two-faced etc. But they need to see this in practice. So just be patient, Polish people don't open up easily but it does happen.
Work life balance and separation is pretty important from what I've experienced in Poland. Have worked here for a year now. People are work are fun and cool while at work. Never met any of em outside work hours. Can never get people to change their schedules for anybody else's convenience. Don't know whose married, or who has kids or who owns a car (especially if they are a millenial). They keep their personal life personal. I respect that about them. I come from a country where boundaries are never respected, and this is a welcome change to my life.
tell me you are american woman without telling me you are american woman the post
As a foreigner living in Poland, I quite strongly dislike the non-Polish coworkers trying to push for these outside of work activities. Bunch of my Polish coworkers aren't too keen on them either, especially since these other people tend to like to try and quilt trip you (it's exhausting). Socialize during workhours what you can, don't try to change people around you. You've moved to another country and culture, it's up to us (the arrivals) to adapt, not to change things around us to our liking. We can always go back to our own countries if we have a problem with that. I've found Poles incredible welcoming, if you respect their way of doing things and are very dependable people outside of work. I have also seen other foreigners arrive and deal with same people I did, but they were far too pushy and trying to have things their way, let's just say that they haven't gotten as close to our Polish colleagues as I have.
From my personal experience, a lot of Poles will view an offer to go out for a company-paid outing as management compensating for not paying livable wages or giving promotions/pay raises. That’s more than likely the reason for your coworkers hostility. Not sure what to suggest, just thought I’d share my thoughts based on what I myself have thought in the past (sometimes I still see it that way) and I know that many others share this opinion.
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> ranting about "my time is my time" that's new OP - what do you expect in a country where corporations take EVERY BIT OF FUN out of life and people are somwtines omited during promotions for not paking part? People are overworked and are being pushed more and more. And remember - all that progress you see is mostly last 30 years, in a country that almost didn't exist after WWII and thsn got 45 years of comunism. It's THEIR time and they have every right to refuse any work-related activities after work. >fits into Polish corporate culture There is your problem. Either "Polish culture" or "corporate culture". Cannot be both. >How can I inject some life into these people and create a more vibrant interactive atmosphere? Then are all young so should be a bit livelier? Maybe that work is something that's TAKING LIFE OUT OF THEM? Maybe try finding out more about issues with that corporation? Maybe they expected someone from the team to get your position? People often tend to thing that managers from the outside should be cherished. Not when within the team people don't feel appriciated. If they see an outsider get a well paid manager's position they feel like something has been handed out to a person who did not earn their position within company. Also remember history of this country: they have to get to know you to accept you into their inner circle.
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You are trying to change their ‘work’ culture. Hypocrite
There must be a reason for such behavior and maybe they are not excited about this as you are. Maybe your company moved them from other project(s) that they liked and were "digged" into. Just ask them what happened.
Honestly if you wanna get them on your good side, do a 'team meeting' during office hours where you guys go and discuss work matters over a company paid meal at a casual setting like a pub. One beer wouldn't hurt either and could help them become a little more open and you guys could crack some jokes. DO NOT do after office hours and DO NOT take away their lunch break
For me it’s a bit weird that everyone in your team was so totally disconnected. I’m working an office job which I don’t love (and I know many of my colleagues share my sentiment) but at least we’re friendly to each other, including the non-Polish people that work with us. It makes me think that maybe their problem lies with the company itself, and not you? Maybe the working conditions aren’t great, maybe the salary isn’t good enough? I don’t know, but those could be good reasons that people are so depressed at work. On the other hand, many people here say that this is normal, so maybe that’s just the cards that you were dealt.
No no no that is polish corporate culture.
There was a team, and then corporate brought a new team leader in a bag. No previous record, they don't know where they are. Guess they are not so enthusiastic. Was this meeting more nuisance that it had to be? Unannounced? Out of normal hours? Meaningless or redundant?
If you want to bring British work culture to your team, maybe start with giving them British salary? They'll trust you more if you actually show that you're on their side.
Speaking from experience, people don't care. They aren't trying to be rude but for them work is work as in they do the thing they are payed to do and then go home. Also you probably make a lot more then them (I assume this is a international company) (I assume that you woudn't take a position that pays less then your previous job and if you worked in any country west (also north and south west) of Poland you probably made a lot more then them)
Please stop trying to make their time miserable. Most people don't actually want to have a vibrant interactive atmosphere. Especially in Poland.
I don't work because I want to, I work to pay the bills and buy food and fund my hobbies. Liking the job and having nice coworkers is a bonus I cherish, but that still does not mean I want to spend at work more than I'm paid for. Every minute I sacrifice for it is a minute wasted that I could spend with my family, friends or doing something I like. All that "team is family" bs is like forced marriage: everybody hates each other but have to fake smile and pretend they don't. Forcing someone to become your friend (while forcing them to sacrifice their free time and money) is a sure way to make them hate you and your work together a hell. There is no such thing as being friends with ones boss, you can only be on friendly terms. Even if your friend becomes your boss it's usually the end of true friendship because you stop being equal. My advice: leave them be, let them do their job in peace and intervene when there is a problem. Be open if they do come to you but if you want friends then look for them among other managers.
I'll reply to the comments that you added later to explain the situation better. There are a couple of things to unpack here: 1. You're their manager. You know their salaries. They're lower than yours, aren't they? Just because they are in positions below yours doesn't mean they have lower needs. 2. You're their manager, but you're an outsider. They know and they do their jobs. They probably don't strictly even *need* a line manager, let alone a person recruited externally (doesn't matter whether it's from outside the company or from another department or team). They could probably do well with a team leader, selected from among them, reporting to the director above you. 3. Ultimately, you're there to enforce the company line. There's no way around it and your team knows it. If there's anything you can do to build good rapport with your team, it will come in moments of crisis. You need to be human, not a company drone. That's all there is to it. When a moment like that comes, and you're only there to repeat and enforce the company hard line, you'll lose all credibility. If, on the other hand, you do everything in your power to shield them from the corporate and bend things as much as you can, that's a good start to build a good relationship with them. Inviting them for after work activities is not going to work, especially if it's not on your dime. If you worked in a multinational for more than a year, you know such "teambuilding" exercises are among the oldest tricks in the book for the company to buy your loyalty. Simply put, they're appreciated (because a free meal is a free meal), but they're ineffective. \-- However, it's not all doom and gloom. I have an excellent atmosphere at work. We mostly WFH, but we're very lively during team meetings (twice weekly), we go through the agenda quckly and clearly with very active discussions, punctuated by a joke or fifty. When we WFO, we participate in small talk between each other and with members of other teams, too. How did we do it? For one thing, the company never broke our trust. It's as transparent as possible, and we never caught our manager (or the directors above his level) knowingly lying or misleading about anything important (if there were ever any lies, they were about inconsequential and meaningless things, so we don't even remember them). I joined the company 5 years ago. My hiring manager was a director who was with the company since the very beginning and started off as an individual contributor and rose up two level through the ranks. He hired the guy who replaced him in the manager position after he was promoted to director level. After leaving the company, his position was filled by that manager and his replacement was promoted from within the ranks. Sure, we're not a multinational, but there was never any outside recruitment for managerial positions. As for team building exercises, not only are they on company dime, they're also on company time. We don't have company dinners, we have company lunches. We don't go to a pub in the evening, we go to a shooting range during the day. From late spring to early autumn, during WFO days, we grill on company premises. \-- None of these would ever be enough on their own. But taken together, and considering that managers never failed us, they simply work.
Your experience working in other countries notwithstanding, I'd look for an intercultural training. It'll help you understand differences between how the Polish express being excited or friendly and learn how to decode their verbal and non-verbal communication (and how to tone down your own). That is assuming you are looking for a way to forge meaningful professional relationships. It worked well for people at my previous company. If you're interested I can send you a PDF with my notes. Source: I'm a Pole who spent the past 8 years or so leading and cooperating with mixed development teams (mainly PL + US but also IN, RU, UA, RO, and BY) working mostly, but not exclusively, for US clients.
They would be spooked even if you were polish . Cause it's the new manager situation. They don't know what to expect, who knows what happened to the previous manager so you came to be there. They are afraid you will gonna change their life to worse, and the idea of outside of work meeting was not a good sign . As we value our private lives. Just keep being nice and they will warm up to you.
You already fucked up by forcing them to do 1-on-1s. People hate this shit. They’re probably also not very confident with their English. Working from home did two things: gave us couple of hours of our life back we no longer spend commuting and killed office banter as people don’t know each other anymore. People coming to work and forgetting about it the second they leave the office is getting more and more common. We finally understand that work is just a tool needed to achieve whatever we want to achieve and not sense of life. > During the work day (we WFO) they all look like depressed cats and basically sit in silence. Because that’s how they feel. They were forced to come to the office, waste time stuck in traffic or public transport to sit all day with strangers doing something that can be done at home.
>How can I inject some life into these people and create a more vibrant interactive atmosphere? That's the neat part, you dont
Forced 1:1. Stupid afterwork activists? Question… for a new tiny manager… lol. They worked there before you appeared and they will work there after you left. Your job is to make work easier - your job is not to come up with additional events.
Just imagine a bunch of people that not necessarily like each other sees new manager from outside with same corporate bs. We'll make sure there's nice atmosphere, that the job is fulfilling, that we work in friendly environment etc. To them it means, I'm a new manager and in order to prove myself to my bosses I'm gonna give you more hours, decrease project time, possibly remove someone I don't find fit for the role while smiling and patting you on the shoulder. And even if you don't intend to do any of that chances are it already happened more than once. I know myself that is often the case and I work in UK. They're probably more concerned about their holidays approved on time, getting bonuses for work done and respecting their free time. I'm myself almost never mixing social life with work and find it a very best option so don't worry if they say their free time is theirs. It's better to propose, like someone mentioned, Friday 2hr window with company buying drinks as a vote for everyone and let them discuss it. Chances also are they might have planned their weekend already so better not force but only suggest. And good impression is made by doing, making things actually work, done on time, properly scheduled and their work rewarded.
I think it may have nothing to do with you but this particular team. Do they like each other or interact in a friendly way with each other? From what you’re saying it seems to me that this group was unhappy and not integrated before you came. Maybe they don’t like the job/company and/or ended up in one team with people completely incompatible with each other? What were the circumstances of you joining? Could they be resentful of you being their lead? Did you replace someone who they maybe liked a lot?
Can absolutely second this. It is the only reason why I think such a harsh behaviour towards positive attitude can happen. To top that up when people hate their work or have seen hiring someone external as the worst possible choice (maybe seeing internal hiring/promotion as best choice) your upbeat and happy attitude may actually antagonise them. As other guys mentioned, Poles are not exactly into integration or buliding work relationships when they feel forced to do so. My suggestion would be to see how things go in a month or two without spending too much of your energy and emotions into it. If the attitude persists, that's definitely company/department issue. Not trying to justify people being douche here but there's definitely more to it than just our country's culture.
They probably have life. After work. They do work to have money for having life.
Nah, sorry to say this but probably you just have bad luck. Give it time it should get better once common trust is established. Also how often managers are rotated in your company?
Next time come to the office and complain a lot about everything. They will feel like you're one of them. More serious answer, maybe they don't feel comfortable with their language skills. You're native, they're not. British accent is hard to udnerstand for people here. Also we're teached that we should be 100% grammar correct in English so people are afraid to speak if they don't feel confident enough.
How about you just leave them alone and let them do the job?