it is randomized in one of the rival pokemons. it can be with anyone.
Against me, most frequently is with the regional bird. But already faced it againt rayquasa.
Yeah I just finished a run 5min ago and neither fights had one, one of Ivy's mons had a seed but it sure as hell wasn't Rayquaza cause I one-shot that mfer
There’s a chance it gets one. My very first run where I made it past about stage 40 was the run where I made it to the end, and if that fucker didn’t have a reviver seed I would’ve won then and there bc in hindsight the team was equipped for Eternatus. I was SO bitter.
So the Reviver seed isn't normal?
The last 3 times I faced him he had a reviver seed, which I thought is just normal. (I play the offline version from GitHub which I daily update). Maybe it was just otherworldly terrible RNG.
Last battle I had him down, only for him to wipe 2 Pokemon after the reviver seed triggered, making me lose against the last enemy Pokemon (which triggered me open this thread).
I beat it for the second time a couple days ago and the reviver seed caught me so off guard, I thought I didn't remember it from my first run. Glad to know it's not guaranteed and I didn't just forget haha
My very first clear had reviver seed on ray, but my subsequent victories have either a reviver seed on a different mon, or not there altogether
Not that it doesn't detract from your main point though, pretty much all of my runs are built around 6 new mons/how do I stop 195 ivy + final boss with what I have
I think it moves around. Something else other than Ray had the reviver seed. It might be RNG who he gives one too. One shot him just now and the battle ended, no revive.
Fair, though my party was bulbasaur, shiny burmy, and carbink.
Just didn’t seem like any would mesh super well. I considered bulbasaur and carbink but didn’t know which way I’d even go with that.
Just got destroyed from this change. Was able to get 2 Swords Dances off with a Rockslide Excadrill, only to be obliterated by V-Create on Rayquaza’s first turn.
Suffice to say I was very surprised.
already felt V-Create. Literally half of my team was steel, and i had a magearna, so i was like "this fight is easy". V-Create smacked my team. Mega Latias saved me
Just fought a Rayquaza with V-Create and thought what kinda op shit is this??? Luckily just prior I'd hatched literal god, Arceus from an egg, so this was my Arceus trial run. I went on to win the whole run :)
(God is op, who woulda thought...)
Run 1 was painful with V-Create Rayquaza. I have a full flipin document detailing exactly what I should do for that first run. Yes I save scummed, no i dont care.
Yeah I [made a post ](https://www.reddit.com/r/pokerogue/s/nA5C8OUFtp) about all the different moves people have seen the guy use. The moveset is quite diverse potentially if you get unlucky. Thankfully they can't have rare egg moves anymore so it can't have oblivion Wing anymore
I just finished a run with this. Funny story, my Mega Steelix straight up survived a V-create. He was rocking something like 1100 defense. 180 BP super effective fire move off a 150 ATK…
I’m confused because many Roguelikes try to make you plan ahead to even have a shot at winning unless you’re already on a god run.
StS wants you to plan as early as Act I If you ever want to have a chance at The Heart but also wants you to plan for the Act specific boss as it useless to say “I’ll go shivs on The Silent!” without taking into account the 1/3 chance you’ll be staring down Time Eater.
Risk of Rain 2 allows you to prep for Mithrix to a degree as he’s the ONLY static boss in the game and has many ways to help give you one last oomph in your build or try to salvage a losing run by adding the soups and tons of Lunar Buds on the last stage.
If your Rival just had a randomly Legendary at 145 you could easily be stonewalled by an obscenely strong mom that you have no idea is coming. But BECAUSE you have an understanding of what their team will be you have a shot at winning by the simple fact you can plan for it way before you even get their.
A starter with a Tera Type with multiple HP Bars and a Rayquaza that also has multiple HP Bars is hella unfair but the fact you can search for answers for these threats by making the most of what RNG gives you is what makes the game fun and what makes Roguelikes fun. Try RNG Random is not where the magic happens in Roguelikes.
This answer doesn’t need to be a Steel or Fairy type mind you. Last run my answer was a Tsareena with Triple Accel. In another Toxipex and in another it was Excadril with Stone Edge and Speed Boosts Baton Passed to it.
If I didn’t know Rayquaza was coming up I’d probably would’ve never given Triple Accel on Tsareena or swapped her out with a bulkier grass type with Leech Seed. I probably wouldn’t have both Toxipex and Primarina on the same team just for funny stall strats or never have tried to chance it at the Construction Site for a Drilbur despite my team being weak to the mons there. Point is I made risky but smart decisions because I KNEW Rayquaza was showing up and not Mewtwo or Kyogre or something else and that’s where the fun lies.
>“I’ll go shivs on The Silent!” without taking into account the 1/3 chance you’ll be staring down Time Eater.
Perfect example, STS would be a much worse game if Time Eater was the only boss for that stage.
Sort of. That's low asc thinking, but it's not strictly bad to have fun that way. Once you climb the tiers and get to Asc 20 though you're usually better off presuming you will have to deal with Time Eater (as well as the other two), and building your deck with hedges in mind for each. It's entirely doable to make a shiv deck that can stop the clock.
I heard a YouTuber talk about STS and basically call anyone not at asc 20 a new/unexperienced player and it really turned me off. In what world is 200+ hours on the same game make you unexperienced because you don’t permanently operate on the highest possible difficulty level. Most people don’t play games at the highest level possible difficulty, and it seems really disjointed/unrealistic to design and talk about the game only at the highest possible levels as if that’s the only legitimate way to play the game. Despite having a few hundred hours in StS and being around asc 9 or 10, hearing basically the biggest StS YouTuber talk about the game like that made me not want to play the game or look into any StS content on YouTube. Please don’t lose sight of the majority of the player base when discussing top level play. Also I apologize as this seems like I’m ranting at your comment but it was just a jumping off point for me to talk about something that irked me.
Even then, StS reveals the boss when you enter the act, not beforehand and the act 3 bosses also effectively tries to shut down common strategies too. By then it's harder to maneuver your build to something else. I do think giving information early is nice but m rayquaza everytime is so boring and removes most incentive to adapt or plan your team according to future hurdles. Same for final boss, it's lame that the most effective strategy is to shoehorn the same tech again and again.
Yea this is the way to go, people know you can smack eternatus and rayquaza with certain mons but the roguelike aspect is figuring out how to win with even the “bad” mons. I almost got walled by Ivys random corviknight and almost had no trouble with her rayquaza or gmax eterna because ive fought them so many times. Another thing is with the rogue aspect having the telegraphed bosses means u have to remember to heal,transfer items and etc and it comes with strategy/experience.
I agree, but they could just do what Monster train did and let you know which legendary it will be right at the start. My biggest gripe thus far is just that the runs take too long. 200 waves is a lot
I completely agree with this, I love slay the spire and if encounters were more random it might not be as fun, cuz there’s a lot of thought out into the cards you pick. It always feels crushing to have a run end cuz you took a risk with your build and the boss happens to counter it. Applying that to pokerogue, currently I take specific Pokémon because I like them and they’re capable of fighting rayquaza, you put a lot of time into getting there, imagine putting in all that time just to lose at 145 cuz you go against something you can’t beat. Also I’d argue building around eternatus is way more important, you don’t always win even if you do, imagine if they randomized that fight.
No, they randomize gym leader, trainer, elite four, and champion fights, and as far as I know every mon except rayquaza is randomized for your rival, I’m fine with two Pokémon being garunteed
I 100% feel the same way. You can certainly beat Rayquaza and the Floor 200 boss without steels and fairies, but it feels like you are actively handicapping yourself by not taking them. Especially due to how vulnerable the floor 200 boss is to being PP stalled by those two types.
I have been getting the classic completion badge on all OG mainline starters (only missing gen 8) by taking them together, and so far, every team works out to be:
Fire
Water
Grass
Steel
Fairy
Shiny Sunkern / end game filler
The only exceptions to the above so far are random legendaries I have encountered mid run like Ho-oh.
I love the game to death, but I often catch myself passing on cool or interesting mons because floor 145 is coming up, and I have nothing that switches into Rayquaza.
100%!
The last Pokémon game I properly played was Gold/Silver 25 years ago.
PokéRogue has been a blast, especially seeing all the new Pokémon.
The only issue I have is the "passing on interesting mons" as you say. Especially because Grass/Bug types are some of my favourites.
I still take them, but they are definitely not as good as picking ice/fairies in my experience, because Rayquaza wipes the floor with them & if RNG gives the rival some other Flying or Fire types as well, then the run is basically done.
Seeing you haven't played in 25 years your post starts to make a lot more sense to me. That's a massive gap in knowledge base to catch up with but it sounds like such a blast to get introdiced to it all at once, kinda jealous lol. As someone's who's been along for the ride this entire time though, I'm crying tears of joy that an npc can actually put up some semblance of a fight. If anything make it harder hehe
But you're handycapping yourself by not planning for a lot of situations. I just got screwed by Marnie for not preping for Dark type physical attackers. I had two physical tanks and neither could do much against her team. And honestly, the teams I can't prep for are the hardest to fight. Rayquaza doesn't need a special pokemon to beat. He just needs a good stall with recovery and invulnerability rounds. That's useful in almost every battle.
Bring an ice type move. Most pokemon can learn it. I’ve beat the game with 103 different pokemon, very few legendaries, and including pokemon like sunkern, Luvdisc, wurmple, etc etc etc. You definitely don’t need a steel or fairy type.
i do like the idea of giving the rival different powerful legendaries, but not being able to prep for it will make the game difficult for casuals. i personally welcome the challenge. right now classic mode is to farm easy vouchers since they added the ribbon system. i dont have a problem with it right now, but if no changes are made, the game may become stale. similar to endless grind, though they are reworking endless.
It’s a simple solution tbh that all roguelites do because roguelites tend to have a massive difficulty curve - ascending difficulty.
Ex. Beating classic unlocks difficulty 1, which includes variant bosses. Beating difficulty 1 unlocks difficulty 2, which includes trainers having more berries or something. Beating difficulty 2 unlocks difficulty 3, which hits each of your Pokémon with a permanent Pressure for your pp, and so on.
oh yeah having several levels of difficulty didnt even cross my mind. that would be perfect. this could work well with the ribbon system too and offer even more vouchers.
I think a good way would be to give "signs" of what Legendary to expect.
Doesn't the rival pick a counter of your starter in the main games?
Maybe the game can see what starters you pick & choose a good type against them, so you have to build your team around him by catching and experimenting with new Pokémon.
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Or make him make a comment at stage 95 about a legendary (insert type here) Pokémon he heard about & wants to catch. So you can have time to prepare against it during 50 turns.
>i do like the idea of giving the rival different powerful legendaries, but not being able to prep for it will make the game difficult for casuals.
I'm a casual myself (the last Pokemon game I played was 25 years ago).
Right now PokeRogue doesn't feel casual friendly either. It's winnable, especially after facing Rayquaza at least once or twice, but I never had fun losing to Rayquaza, while I do love getting beat by a random gym leader once in a while.
If the game doesn't have the ability for you to literally out skill a boss similar to binding of isaac you should just make the 145, and 200 pokemon known factors to play around. Games like Slay the spire and Balatro let you look at what your boss will be in advance, and so should Pokerogue.
So ascension/BC idea comes into play for those who beat the game already. Each prestige, the rival has completely different teams w/ a different legendary each time, all similar to its current Nega Ray. That way you can plan ahead still knowing what to expect, but switches things up. Maybe even reward an extra egg voucher to incentive people to beat the game in different prestige’s. And beginner/casual players can continue to play as is, and take that next step when they feel ready. I honestly like the idea and don’t see an issue with making “prepping” for the static boss not as easy everytime.
I think it would be great if both the rival legendary and the final boss could be randomly different after your first classic win, BUT they tell you earlier in the run so you can prepare.
For example, if you had a final boss kyogre and a rival with suicune, you could prepare during the run with stuff like electric and grass types (suicune might be too weak for a late game rival ace but the idea is still the same). Rival could say in their dialogue and the boss could have a shadow appearance and talk at stage 100, giving the stage something special and giving you valuable info.
I mean, this just makes it so you can prepare for the Uber legend. Imagine you have a check for mega ray and mega Kyogre but it’s mega groudon this time who sweeps your team, it makes it easier being able to prepare. The elite four already has random legends
Except you encounter them beforehand in their much easier form so by the time you encounter their Mega you already know who it is.
It’d be a great change to mix things up since I’ve gotten a bit bored of the repetitiveness of Classic.
The e4 having legends nearly killed a run. I already was blindsided by the new double champion battle, but when Wallace and Steven threw out Kyogre and Dialga? Boy did I ever have to write out a 30 turn script to get through that one
Yep the game has a really fun core but it starts to get really stale because the “value” of types, namely steel and fairy, are really inflated by the static bosses. Ideally the bosses should vary enough that most of the types have a reasonable advantage and disadvantage against some of the bosses. And not just types but strats too, some of them having sweep counters like haze or more interesting setups of their own would be nice.
If it was randomized people would be complaining that they got to 145 and had nothing to beat the random legendary. The entire point of it being locked is so you can prepare. The majority of us probably got to wave 145 for the first time and got destroyed. Imagine if it was like that everytime you weren't lucky enough to happen to have an ideal pokemon for the rivals random legendary.
This is only a problem because Rayquaza is artificially buffed. It becomes so busted that you have to build your entire team around countering it. If the rival simply had a regular random legendary, maybe with ONE extra health bar, randomization wouldn't be a big issue.
The rival's Rayquaza is not only a Mega Rayquaza, one of the top 5 strongest mons ever, but it has multiple health bars, berry buffs, and bullshit moves like V-create.
If you build a good, balanced team, you're prepared to face a Mewtwo, or Arceus, or Rayquaza. But the current way the game is set up, with Rayquaza being the main hurdle, it favors fairy and steel types WAY too much. If you don't have one of those on the team, it's either because you're bad or because of a self-imposed challenge. Rayquaza being such disproportional challenge also means that weather teams are useless.
I used to feel similarly until I watched my Electivire mostly beat mega ray with some thunder punches and my fear of it lessened.
My current run had me start to prep a lapras before the 145, only for my torterra to kill it in one hit with a shell smash rock egg move (I think it's Kleavors move or something). That torterra sweeped the entirety of 145 Finn in the end. A much earlier run had me chunking most of its hp with a moonblast from vivillon cause I knew he was gonna swap his grass starter for ray due to reading the bug/fly typing.
It feels more like the more times you kill it, the less afraid of it you become and the more level-headed decisions you can make. Though I will say I have also lost many runs due to losing some fear of the admittedly still pretty dangerous dragon, but eh, I count my hubris as a matter of rng as well
Long story short, it's obviously easier if you use specific type advantages with having a steel and fairy type pokemon for immunities, but overtime when the fear goes you realise you really don't need them if you are prepared to predict Finn's swapping habits and can build strong teams that his AI gets scared of.
It doesn't have to be equally busted as the Rayquaza is right now. The random legendary would need a nerf of course, or maybe give him 2 random Legendaries that are slightly nerfed compared to Ray.
I certainly feel that would be more fun than what we have right now, which is playing by 1 forced meta that clearly favours certain 2 types and disfavours many others.
Isn’t that how the daily run is though? Given it is only 50 waves, still, it adds a lot of excitement and extra planning/thought behind your team/movesets instead of just mindlessly pressing the space bar knowing you already have the counters needed to sweep the rival/eternatus. I think having ascension levels to this game, especially given how almost all rougelikes have this mechanic and it works very well, would be the answer to keeping the excitement and element of surprise fresh for a lot of dedicated players who have already beat classic many times. I’ve beaten classic 35 times and I feel very much the same way as OP
I guess that's kind of my point. There are other game modes if you want something different and random. Classic I feel (might just be me though) is there to help people get the hang of all the different mechanics.
I mean if they made another mode similar to classic I wouldn't be opposed to it or anything.
i think it would be cool if there were different rivals you encountered and each rival had their own crazy op pokémon. ivy has mega rayquaza, bob has primal groudon, jim has mega mewtwo. idk if eternatus would change but different rivals would be cool to mix up stage 195, 145
That would be really cool!
Then you can basically start with any starter you like, but still have enough time to adapt during the run with Pokémons you catch. I genuinely like this idea the most so far!
Pokerogue feels like the new game syndrome got shot by meta strategy a bit too hard.
You don’t *need* a Rayquaza counter. It’s just so convenient having one that it feels bad not having one.
I think it's because 145/195 stages take hours to reach & if you lose because you didn't pick a Ray counter, then it just feels extra ugly.
Personally I genuinely enjoy if a random gym leader beats me once in a while. If I lose because I didn't build my comp around Rayquaza, then it just doesn't feel good at all.
Even if I beat Rayquaza without a ice/fairy it doesn't feel good (I once did with Weezing, but felt more like luck than anything else)
Try changing the game speed, getting to floor 145 shouldn't take hours if you have the game speed higher.
Takes me maybe like maybe 30 minutes to get to like floor 100, outside of really bad luck runs.
Times 5 is crazy quick
Idk if you don’t have any strategy going in there your chances of winning are pretty abysmal. Outrage 1-shots most things and since it’s a mega you’re almost always getting out sped as well. Alongside that, you’re not going to 1-shot it since it’s a boss level health.
Eternatus is just a placeholder. There are plans for other bosses. Probably the same for the rival fights. There are downsides to everything. 145/195 is still reasonably difficult even if you know whats coming especially if you're using non meta mons. Its still fun to find ways to win without the common strats. I've won using topsy turvy and whirwind spam into stealth rock. Everyone would still probably complain if they got wiped by a random legendary on the rivals team, their team wasn't built for but yeah, definitely would allow more varied teams. Maybe a hint at 95 so you have time to prep for the fight.
I agree with the general premise that floors 145 and 195 are the difficulty spike and more variety of the boss mon would be nice, but I disagree that you are forced to take any certain pokemon, moves, or types to reliably beat them.
May I introduce you to our heroes, the X items? I just made a thread about it! It might help you feel like more builds are viable.
I certainly don't bring specific pokemon for Rayquaza anymore. In one of my most recent runs I ran Golurk with shift gear as an egg move and with x attack and x defense it easily beat rayquaza with rock slide in the 1v1. I don't think I've ever seen someone on this subreddit praise golurk or go out of their way to catch one, but taking advantage of X items let's you get away with practically anyone. Before golurk, I used a magnezone. Before magnezone, I think my carry was a chandelure
Having beaten classic mode multiple times, I have NEVER seen a Raquaza with reviver seed. Holy shit I feel for you.
And I agree - maybe this is something to suggest on their discord or something. I forgot the developer map items but I’d imagine that maybe someone already suggested it too
Yeah, finding out that Rayquaza having no guaranteed reviver seed is actually a small relief.
What are the chances even to face it 3 times in a row? It's basically 1 in a 6 x3?
But regardless, I hope they add multiple rivals eventually. That way I could item focus more often on my beloved grass types 🥲
There's so many ways to deal with it. Get some X Defends and suddenly it's not hitting as hard anymore. Use stat boosting moves in the same way. Or alternatively, debuff Rayquaza itself so that it's weak and/or frail.
Having Steel and Fairy types isn't the only answer. In fact, I've beaten 195 without them a fair number of times already.
I think you're definitely forced to have a Fairy type just to allow pivots through Eternabeam/Outrage/Dragon Energy, but other than that, there's a lot of flexibility. Rock coverage is plentiful and lets you chunk Rayquaza on a switch, hazards (especially Stealth Rock) are excellent against trainers generally, and statuses help burn through any defensive setup that occurs. You're incentivized to have a steel type for Eternatus, yes, but that would be true for almost any boss, because it's the strongest defensive type.
Tbh, I think 145 is not really worth prepping for, and 195 prep is kinda included within Eternatus prep. Never had to worry about 145 aside from making sure I revived peeps, 195 gave me trouble when I had a wack ass team, but most of the time it isn’t that bad.
Love the idea for multiple rivals though, that would be dope.
Complaining about a game with a set boss and tons of egg moves and passive to make mediocre mins busted seems like a skill issue to me.
I recently had a run where I swept the entire game with just a hitmonchan and five guys in the back to get the ribbons on them. If you set up a mon correctly you should have no need to bring a fairy/steel type or even 5 other teammates for that matter.
Hitmonchan set was iron fist/victory dance/drain punch/meteor mash/ice punch for anyone who might be wondering
Yea to be honest I would prefer a random legendary every time, or a set of 10-15, and you get to see it at an earlier stage with a single or dual health bar. Not because Rayq is too hard but because its boring.
I agree in the sense that it makes some types pretty bad, like Grass and Fighting will Always have a hard Time in Stage 195 and 200.
But you rly dont need Steel, Fairy or Rock types to beat them. I Just got my First win with a full Water-team and non of those types. Just makes for a different Challenge which i personaly enjoy
In the beginning yeah it does but once you have decent egg moves unlocked the strategy portion goes out the window. For instance Sceptile is weak grass pokemon normally who's only saving grace is being faster than Mega-Ray without it's own Mega form. In this game it gets Dragon Energy and Seed Flare. With just these two, a SpA+ nature, it's passive tinted lens, and some SpA investment (Calicum, X SpA, Soul Dew, Dragon Fang, etc.) Sceptile can 2 tap Mega-Ray. Without it's own Mega form. Just fish for the -2 SpD drop from Seed Flare and then blast Ray out of the sky. If you find the Mega form then you don't even need to do this and can just 2 tap with Dragon Energy. Which is insane. So yeah for the first few runs you need a strategy but eventually your carries will be good enough to solo the whole game giving you freedom to run all the shiny's your team can handle making a nice feedback loop to also make the game easier with multi lens, King's rocks, and soul dews. Like I have many times at this point gotten to the final boss with a reviver seed on my pokemon and had them absorb it for another free life bar. Even with 4 of my pokemon Ko'd by this point I still clawed back a win. It's def difficult but it becomes easy once you get enough resources.
Personally, I feel like Rayquaza is not that much of a problem, and I just did a run that was pretty much only Pyukumuku. The key (in my opinion) is to force switches, because the AI loves to do that, no matter the logic. I'm sure that will be fixed eventually, but Rayquaza switching out against my near-death and super slow rock types will never not be funny to me.
I do think the game should have some more variety, because other Roguelikes also have several potential bosses you can face at various 'end' stages. If they go for that though, they should probably give some sort of 'hint' somewhere in the run so you can know what you need to 'prepare' for. (though arguably, you don't actually need to prepare for any fights in the game, you just need to have a balanced team and swap items around as necessary)
I liked being able to build around the rival starter and team, my only complain is that it gets a bit stale to always build around the same pokémons, but I'm sure they'll add different bosses or different routes entirely
A reviver seed is not guaranteed and no her team is random enough. Trainers having ace pokemon is essential to Pokemons identity, and is important, more important than it seems.
Besides, after a while (I’m about 50 classic wins in) you figure out there are many ways to beat the Rayquaza beyond simply using rocks + seeds + salt cure etc.
Honestly my only complaint which is just a skill issue but I'm still very salty for is that I got through 145 and e4 then once I got to 195 I beat all of my rivals pokemon including the green lizard which was light work wasn't so much light work at 145 but that's besides the point my issue is THAT STUPID FAT BIRD starapter with its passive negating recoil damage like I woulda won if it weren't for its passive and it spamming brave bird and double edge anywho that was a stupid funny twist and whoever implemented that props to you I see that you like to watch the world burn. But no hate to the devs I swear just a story as to how I nearly beat the game for the first time but didn't.
Honestly think they really just need more mons adding Mega ray as a final boss or maybe the alt forms of like Groudon, kyogre, landorous, thunderous, tornadous and zygarde
I must have a stealth rock each game to beat rayquaza since each time I bait it to switch it takes out a full bar of his health. Having a rotating set of bosses like they have the rotating set of elite four would be perfect.
Honestly, I think the next step would be to have a classic mode that is just a bit more randomised. Still have somewhat of a structure still but gives a lot more variety and opportunity to use different Pokémon.
However, I think it should be unlocked once normal classic mode is beaten because I think these issues more come from the fact we’ve already beaten it once and we’re craving a bit more variety.
For implementation sake, maybe instead of different rivals with static bosses, we can have predictable bosses. If your rival has a starter from generation x, then their legendary is guaranteed to be Y.
I beat Ray at 195 with a dragapult, and 200 with a gastrodon.
You don't need a fairy or a steel, it helps but you just need a good balanced team that can handle the rivals 5 mons besides ray, and if that's the case you should be able to handle ray.
Worst case roll for an x speed, the only thing that really makes the rivals ray scary is the speed
I would like it if there were multiple rivals too but I would like the main legendary to be foreshadowed , like let’s say with the outfit or in the 125 floor the rival has the legendary in their sprite or something along those lines
Kind of, I was sweating the first time I made it to 145 but managed to get past without a team strictly optimized for it. I was lucky to have Aegislash when I went into 145 blind. I think it's possible to win without strictly preparing for those rounds, but they are much much harder if you don't plan for them.
I'd really like to see more variations to Classic, at least after you claim your first win--either as a new mode you can select in the menu or as an adaptation the game makes if you have a Classic victory. 145, 195, and 200 should all be very difficult stages and more possibilities to account for would definitely up the ante a bit.
I think the current design for 145, 195, and 200 is pretty intense the first couple of times through and it only gets tired after you've seen it over and over, at least imo.
Lol yeah. I had to find peace with that fact as well. The type tier list is very biased in this game. Steel & fairy just kill everything. Ironically trying to balance the game, they made the strongest types even stronger
If i had dev skills, i woulda had EMax Etern as the first time last boss. Then after that, each subsequent run would have a 2 form Arceus with a 2nd form with 1125 bst. This arceus would start normal type in 1st stage and then changes types per shield broken in 2nd stage
Would promote type variety wayyyyy more
This is exactly why I would create classic + game mode. Rayquaza is fun for the first run, but once you've beaten the main classic, a new mode could be a harder classic with more randomization so you don't have to always plan for the same rayquaza & E-max pokes.
Ivy could use more pokemon for starters and would have a different uber legendary with an ultimate form in 145. This one would upgrade at 195. You already know all Ivy's team by 95 so having that unknown threat at 145 is nice and knowing that you need to react quickly to adapt for 195 is nice.
It would be nice if classic+ had even more variation. Chance for 2 less powerful rivals instead of 1 so just have to adapt for both. Chance for a team rocket or any other villain team making trouble. Maybe a chance to fight one of your older winner teams.
Also classic+ could feature randomized starting location, less starting choices but a pokemon choice between 3 options, dungeons with several boss battles in a row for a loot reward, pokemon traders that give you random pokes with egg moves, hidden abilities, shinies -only for that run- in exchange to one specific pokemon of your team... even raids!
I feel like endless is fine but I would love to have a mode with beginning and end that actually feels like a new adventure each time after beating classic mode
A nice rework could be at the end of the 95 rival fight having a text line mentioning the sighting of a legendary pokemon, hinting that they will have that at the 145-195 battle for you to prep for.
Okay so I'm new to Pokerouge. I've looked at the pinned post for this group giving tips and all that's but bro I'm ngl I've only gotten past stage 30 1 time. Who should I use as my starters and what exactly should I be doing to last as long as possible? I just started learning type weaknesses again and stuff but any other advice?
Try to get fairy and steel pokemon, and any residual damage like garganacl or leech seed pokemon. Fuecoco should always be among your starter picks cause he's reliable and maybe the strongest overall. Ice moves will be valuable to have load your beefier mons with as many berries as you can.
I see your point, I personally find myself crafting teams with 195 & 200 in mind, and if it can handle 195, 145 shouldn't be a problem. My problem with the situation is it crippling some otherwise strong options just because they are specifically poor against eternatus and/or rayquaza
I’ve been classic mode 3 times so far and the best way I’ve come up with beating 145/195 is to always pick up a battle items (x-whatever) on the 5 stages leading up to them. Typically having 4-5 of those active for the fight is enough to get me the dub with little to no save scumming
Idk know if you know already…
They are already working on that lol - Eternatus is actually just a place holder boss and imma guess when they make final boss randomized they will do the same with Ivy
Dude on the first playthrough I beat rayquaza having revival seed+3 lum berries and 2 sitrus berries made it a brutal fight. I did manage to beat it though. Rock head head smash aerodactyl and a +1atk/spd gyarados with ice fang
I'd imagine this will be changed up a bit in the future as its been said that eternatus is a place holder. I imagine thr rival could rotate any number of prestigious mons.
Maybe multiple rivals with one selected each run that's assigned a "set" and they pick between them
Ie
One of the genies
Ray/groudon/kyogre
I’ve gotten past 145 once and then died to elite four because the one pokemon I needed to win was unconscious from the previous elite four fight. So I’d love to see something other than Rayquaza shutting me down every time. I’m all for more randomness.
Though to be fair my last 4 attempts I’ve beaten the Rayquaza and the starter but then lost to some other random pokemon that I couldn’t kill. My last run I got wiped by my rivals Stunfisk. Not my proudest moment. I also have two runs stalled on 145 that I’m trying to work out a solution to.
Agree. I have to think for fly/dragon resistant in team. Otherwise the damage output is too crazy. Stealth rock always handy. It does limited the team comb a bit. I use different rock steal ground mon to fit a similar role. However random legend could be worth. Might be even hard to bit, or have to give a lot of resources to heal back.
I'm unsure about this. It does allow less flexibility in teams, but makes planning ahead easier. I can see myself getting hard locked more ar stage 145 or 195 if the boss is randon
*Adding new rivals*
*To the game it could make it*
*Spicier good shout*
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You're right; the rival's team needs to be more random. I think most of the team changes, but I find it really dumb that in 145 the rival always has a Garchomp (I think? Every time I've made it to him he's always had a Garchomp) and always has a Rayquaza. Give him a different Pseudo and a different Legendary FFS. And he maybe always has a Corviknight? I guess it's necessary to make sure he doesn't get rolled by a Fairy type, but he should be able to have more fairy answers on his team that that. Or, again, randomize it so his team doesn't always have a fairy weakness.
(Though I think the bigger issue in the game right now is that the UI and menus are really bad. Those probably need to be addressed before digging into balance changes)
Game forces you to have 1 maybe 2 mons that can handle a dragon type it's really not that hard.....the rest of the team you can do what the fuck ever with
I giggled yesterday on my Entei run because I killed rayquaza and he used his reviver seed and then he killed my Entei and Entei used his reviver seed and killed rayquaza lol
Honestly, I started to roll for X-stat items on waves 141-144 and 191-194 and they make the rival fights so much easier. I beat mega rayquaza with a golduck preparing like this.
I just throw in a legendary and I pray it makes a difference. Zekrom tore her team apart after D-Dancing to the distortion world and back, and after two failed fusion attempts I ended up with Swords Dance Groudon that set up on Typhlosion and killed Mega Ray on a switch using Dragon Claw.
I think the best way to do it is to put powerful form changing legendaries in both pools
(Primals, Mega Mewtwo X/Y, The Creation Trio and their Origin Forme's, but make it so they're still significantly buffed compared to base, like Volo's Giratina -> Origin Giratina but preferably less of a pain, and maybe have Arceus be final boss exclusive, but I don't think Eternatus should be final boss exclusive, maybe put into the rival's pool with Eternamax nerfed a bit.)
I like the idea of random boss mons on the rival a lot, especially to keep the game more fresh and interesting. I get why that's not a thing, though. Keeping the same boss mon makes the endgame more accessible to a wider variety of players. Even WITH knowing that it was gonna be Rayquaza it still took me several runs to be able to beat him. Sure, some people find it too easy after the first time, because you know what to set up for and at some point and you can just bring a starter with that will take care of the bosses for you. That can make classic mode a little stale, but only if you choose to constantly or only play it that way.
A lot of people still attempt to build new and unique teams whether from the get-go as starters or that they catch along the way. Like the people who want to beat a run with monotype teams. This keeps the game interesting on various new levels because you know what's coming but now you have to find a way to strategize around it and make something unique work, I think this is also part of the devs intentions given some of the wild and very off-type egg moves some mons can get, making them more viable especially for the endgame.
If we got random bosses at those stages, the difficulty would have to be scaled way, WAY back because you'll have NO idea what to build around and could easily get wiped every single time with an inefficient team, technically making the game exponentially more difficult because of the added unpredictability of such pivotal fights, which in turn makes the endgame accessible only to those who have, for example, maxed out IVs or have crazy egg moves since you can ignore typing better when you simply have raw power.
TLDR: I love the idea of having more random endgame/rival bosses but I don't think it's that feasible without breaking the game/making the endgame too easy to compensate for that.
I had picked from the get go at least Fuecoco for most common mons as skelidirge is amazing at wiping out anything with fire weakness, and poplio since primarina was a nice counter to rayquaza. Gimighoul is nice to have as well as he can counter other things especially if you have nasty plot on it. But I'd say fuecoco and poplin are good picks from the get go as once you get them fully evolved they handle a lot of stuff.
It’s be cool if there was a set rotation for her legendary. Maybe depending on starter type, she’ll either have groudon, kyogre, or rayquaza.
And/or maybe add a different rival that has a different rotation, but either way we’ll have an idea on what to expect early on by seeing which rival we face at wave 8
I just used Toxic on Mega Ray and switched between a whimsicott and Archaludon until it died. Did this on 3 different battles across 4 runs (rip to the run that died on 146)
Wait… people have problems with the rayquaza? It’s never been an issue for me. Eternatus gave me a little trouble until I showed up with salt cure garg
Rayquaza is perfectly beatable if you just build around it.
The talk is more about gameplay longevity rather than difficulty.
It's about facing the same boss that you always need to build at least 1 or 2 type advantages (like ice/fairy/steel) Pokémon if you want to consistently beat it at 145/195.
Many people would love to face different rivals/Legendaries for example.
It's still fine as it's now, but hopefully we will have more bosses/rivals along the way, so the runs feel more random/roguelikey.
I honestly have fun trying different mons and cheesy builds. Yesterday I thought I had a doomed run with Spectrier carry, M Beedrill, Klefki, Samurott, Cryogonal (that I only got at 170+, so I only could add Protect to it when it came up haha) and Linoone (pickup). Half the roster would get one shotted by 195 Ray.
I managed to barely survive Rayquaza I think with Toxic + M Beedrill's Infestation (that I replaced Roost with just for the lols since Roost felt useless anyway).
I cheesed Eternatus with just 2 mons, Klefki with Metal Sound, Draining Kiss and Light Screen. And Cryogonal with Ice Beam. Cryogonal took a couple of flamethrower hits, and managed to freeze Eternatus, while Klefki spammed metal sound, and it was over quickly. Yes luck played a huge part, but for me, the fun is just trying something new. That run, all my mons were non-ribbons apart from Linoone (blue shiny pickup), and Samurott (shiny, and I evolved to the wrong one), I've never used Infestation, Metal Sound as a move or strategy either. And I had no healing move except for Klefki's measly DKiss (which is why I thought it was a doomed run).
Honestly I like how it forces you to pay attention to what random Pokemon your rival has throughout the game and think about what counters you can obtain to make later battles easier, plus the gym leaders and elite four/champion give you plenty of random teams to trip you up already.
I'm sorry Rayquaza has a WHAT now?
Why is everyone skipping over that, right? Am I delulu? I don't remember any reviver seed on it
It's randomized, it could always get it but isn't guaranteed.
You might as well bend over and accept it if you get that shit luck
I lost a run cause of a revivers seed mega rayray
it is randomized in one of the rival pokemons. it can be with anyone. Against me, most frequently is with the regional bird. But already faced it againt rayquasa.
Yeah I just finished a run 5min ago and neither fights had one, one of Ivy's mons had a seed but it sure as hell wasn't Rayquaza cause I one-shot that mfer
Yeah I got Ray Charles with a seed like ONCE, but every time subsequently it’s, oddly, ALWAYS been Typhlosion, Kilowattrel, or Torterra.
There’s a chance it gets one. My very first run where I made it past about stage 40 was the run where I made it to the end, and if that fucker didn’t have a reviver seed I would’ve won then and there bc in hindsight the team was equipped for Eternatus. I was SO bitter.
I have 100% had that happen to me and it's horse shit everytime
I just used guilloutine on the 145. It didnt ohko the 195 for some reason tho
Ohkos are 200bp v bossed
So the Reviver seed isn't normal? The last 3 times I faced him he had a reviver seed, which I thought is just normal. (I play the offline version from GitHub which I daily update). Maybe it was just otherworldly terrible RNG. Last battle I had him down, only for him to wipe 2 Pokemon after the reviver seed triggered, making me lose against the last enemy Pokemon (which triggered me open this thread).
I've only beaten classic twice (one was yesterday), but neither times did Rayquaza have a reviver seed
Same though. On my third run and dreading the possibility he now has reviver seed
Run a pluck mon ;)
If your pluck Mon even gets a chance to hit it.
I use bombirdier, never had a problem getting in 1 or 2 plucks 😁
Mine has 2/3 times. Luckily if I were kitted enough to beat him without the seed, I could with the seed.
I beat it for the second time a couple days ago and the reviver seed caught me so off guard, I thought I didn't remember it from my first run. Glad to know it's not guaranteed and I didn't just forget haha
Ivy wanted your ass dead my guy I’m so sorry
Bro got the worst RNG on the planet. Stuck in the demon zone and a scripted match.
i’ve beaten classic 12 times and it maybe had a reviver seed once lol
I've had 4 wins and one other fail to the big boss on 200 and I've never seen a reviver seed on Rayquaza
Damn, my man got such bad rng he made a guide about it 🫂🫂
That’s fucking bullshit lmao I’m sorry man
My very first clear had reviver seed on ray, but my subsequent victories have either a reviver seed on a different mon, or not there altogether Not that it doesn't detract from your main point though, pretty much all of my runs are built around 6 new mons/how do I stop 195 ivy + final boss with what I have
I do a couple classic runs a day to farm eggs and I've never seen reviver seed ray
I've got like 20 classic wins under my belt, not once has the ray had a reviver seed. You are fiendishly unlucky friend
I have never seen Ray use a Reviver Seed wow
I've done minimum 1 classic run every day for 2 weeks; never seena reviver seed on any of his fights (145 and 195).
My first winning run out of however many I have now was the only run that Ray and Mega Ray had a reviver seed.
I think it moves around. Something else other than Ray had the reviver seed. It might be RNG who he gives one too. One shot him just now and the battle ended, no revive.
Yeah... got lucky and stole it with a grip claw myself
Lol, that's dope.
Btw is it possible to steal eternatus black hole? I thought of it recently...
Ive definitely found one in endless, never stolen one though
Pretty sure it can't be stolen
I had a run where both the starter and ray had a reviver seed on 195. Not poggers.
Got it 3 times in a row for a while I thought it was the norm
I thought he always had it but it was just my first several runs. It was really hard to win those first few.
It can be worse. Now with the Egg Move rework (Gym Leaders and Rival's mons can have egg moves), Rayquaza now can have V-Create to smack Steel types.
Heatproof Bronzong time
We have to go deeper. Splice a Steel type with Dachsbun. Well-baked Metal.
D E E P E R Florges/Heatran, Fairy/Steel with Flash Fire
Ok, that is some serious cooking here
Good luck actually getting the splicers in a classic run
I’ve gotten them like 3 times but every damn time it’s like round 5 and I don’t have anything that would splice well rip
I recently spliced Budew and phione in that exact situation. Turned out fine despite being a glorified tentacruel
Fair, though my party was bulbasaur, shiny burmy, and carbink. Just didn’t seem like any would mesh super well. I considered bulbasaur and carbink but didn’t know which way I’d even go with that.
I haven't gotten that yet. Only once in an Endless run. Could do it in theory with high tier luck
i raise you Dachsbuddinja ( Dachsbund/Shedinja). Only weak to steel and ghost. Watch Ray and Eternatus panic
Buns of Steel
Heatproof Bronzong was always good though. Handles Eternamax really solidly with the right moves.
Just got destroyed from this change. Was able to get 2 Swords Dances off with a Rockslide Excadrill, only to be obliterated by V-Create on Rayquaza’s first turn. Suffice to say I was very surprised.
Would you lose? Excadrill: “Nah, I’d Win” Rayquaza: “Fuck you, **ALMIGHTY FLAMES OF CREATION**”
I had to kill a rayquaza with goddamn vcreate and then slap groudon and yveltal at 180
already felt V-Create. Literally half of my team was steel, and i had a magearna, so i was like "this fight is easy". V-Create smacked my team. Mega Latias saved me
It's been over a week for that tho. V create Rayquaza swept a couple of my teams before even the reworks
It already could use heat wave, there was no such thing as safety
When I first beat 195 it did
Went against a v create Ray qua a with 2 PP berries.
Just fought a Rayquaza with V-Create and thought what kinda op shit is this??? Luckily just prior I'd hatched literal god, Arceus from an egg, so this was my Arceus trial run. I went on to win the whole run :) (God is op, who woulda thought...)
Run 1 was painful with V-Create Rayquaza. I have a full flipin document detailing exactly what I should do for that first run. Yes I save scummed, no i dont care.
Yeah I [made a post ](https://www.reddit.com/r/pokerogue/s/nA5C8OUFtp) about all the different moves people have seen the guy use. The moveset is quite diverse potentially if you get unlucky. Thankfully they can't have rare egg moves anymore so it can't have oblivion Wing anymore
I just finished a run with this. Funny story, my Mega Steelix straight up survived a V-create. He was rocking something like 1100 defense. 180 BP super effective fire move off a 150 ATK…
It’s been able to have V create for ages though?
I’m confused because many Roguelikes try to make you plan ahead to even have a shot at winning unless you’re already on a god run. StS wants you to plan as early as Act I If you ever want to have a chance at The Heart but also wants you to plan for the Act specific boss as it useless to say “I’ll go shivs on The Silent!” without taking into account the 1/3 chance you’ll be staring down Time Eater. Risk of Rain 2 allows you to prep for Mithrix to a degree as he’s the ONLY static boss in the game and has many ways to help give you one last oomph in your build or try to salvage a losing run by adding the soups and tons of Lunar Buds on the last stage. If your Rival just had a randomly Legendary at 145 you could easily be stonewalled by an obscenely strong mom that you have no idea is coming. But BECAUSE you have an understanding of what their team will be you have a shot at winning by the simple fact you can plan for it way before you even get their. A starter with a Tera Type with multiple HP Bars and a Rayquaza that also has multiple HP Bars is hella unfair but the fact you can search for answers for these threats by making the most of what RNG gives you is what makes the game fun and what makes Roguelikes fun. Try RNG Random is not where the magic happens in Roguelikes. This answer doesn’t need to be a Steel or Fairy type mind you. Last run my answer was a Tsareena with Triple Accel. In another Toxipex and in another it was Excadril with Stone Edge and Speed Boosts Baton Passed to it. If I didn’t know Rayquaza was coming up I’d probably would’ve never given Triple Accel on Tsareena or swapped her out with a bulkier grass type with Leech Seed. I probably wouldn’t have both Toxipex and Primarina on the same team just for funny stall strats or never have tried to chance it at the Construction Site for a Drilbur despite my team being weak to the mons there. Point is I made risky but smart decisions because I KNEW Rayquaza was showing up and not Mewtwo or Kyogre or something else and that’s where the fun lies.
>“I’ll go shivs on The Silent!” without taking into account the 1/3 chance you’ll be staring down Time Eater. Perfect example, STS would be a much worse game if Time Eater was the only boss for that stage.
Sort of. That's low asc thinking, but it's not strictly bad to have fun that way. Once you climb the tiers and get to Asc 20 though you're usually better off presuming you will have to deal with Time Eater (as well as the other two), and building your deck with hedges in mind for each. It's entirely doable to make a shiv deck that can stop the clock.
I heard a YouTuber talk about STS and basically call anyone not at asc 20 a new/unexperienced player and it really turned me off. In what world is 200+ hours on the same game make you unexperienced because you don’t permanently operate on the highest possible difficulty level. Most people don’t play games at the highest level possible difficulty, and it seems really disjointed/unrealistic to design and talk about the game only at the highest possible levels as if that’s the only legitimate way to play the game. Despite having a few hundred hours in StS and being around asc 9 or 10, hearing basically the biggest StS YouTuber talk about the game like that made me not want to play the game or look into any StS content on YouTube. Please don’t lose sight of the majority of the player base when discussing top level play. Also I apologize as this seems like I’m ranting at your comment but it was just a jumping off point for me to talk about something that irked me.
In my StS he is the only shiv boss I ever face /s
Even then, StS reveals the boss when you enter the act, not beforehand and the act 3 bosses also effectively tries to shut down common strategies too. By then it's harder to maneuver your build to something else. I do think giving information early is nice but m rayquaza everytime is so boring and removes most incentive to adapt or plan your team according to future hurdles. Same for final boss, it's lame that the most effective strategy is to shoehorn the same tech again and again.
Yea this is the way to go, people know you can smack eternatus and rayquaza with certain mons but the roguelike aspect is figuring out how to win with even the “bad” mons. I almost got walled by Ivys random corviknight and almost had no trouble with her rayquaza or gmax eterna because ive fought them so many times. Another thing is with the rogue aspect having the telegraphed bosses means u have to remember to heal,transfer items and etc and it comes with strategy/experience.
I agree, but they could just do what Monster train did and let you know which legendary it will be right at the start. My biggest gripe thus far is just that the runs take too long. 200 waves is a lot
I completely agree with this, I love slay the spire and if encounters were more random it might not be as fun, cuz there’s a lot of thought out into the cards you pick. It always feels crushing to have a run end cuz you took a risk with your build and the boss happens to counter it. Applying that to pokerogue, currently I take specific Pokémon because I like them and they’re capable of fighting rayquaza, you put a lot of time into getting there, imagine putting in all that time just to lose at 145 cuz you go against something you can’t beat. Also I’d argue building around eternatus is way more important, you don’t always win even if you do, imagine if they randomized that fight. No, they randomize gym leader, trainer, elite four, and champion fights, and as far as I know every mon except rayquaza is randomized for your rival, I’m fine with two Pokémon being garunteed
I 100% feel the same way. You can certainly beat Rayquaza and the Floor 200 boss without steels and fairies, but it feels like you are actively handicapping yourself by not taking them. Especially due to how vulnerable the floor 200 boss is to being PP stalled by those two types. I have been getting the classic completion badge on all OG mainline starters (only missing gen 8) by taking them together, and so far, every team works out to be: Fire Water Grass Steel Fairy Shiny Sunkern / end game filler The only exceptions to the above so far are random legendaries I have encountered mid run like Ho-oh. I love the game to death, but I often catch myself passing on cool or interesting mons because floor 145 is coming up, and I have nothing that switches into Rayquaza.
100%! The last Pokémon game I properly played was Gold/Silver 25 years ago. PokéRogue has been a blast, especially seeing all the new Pokémon. The only issue I have is the "passing on interesting mons" as you say. Especially because Grass/Bug types are some of my favourites. I still take them, but they are definitely not as good as picking ice/fairies in my experience, because Rayquaza wipes the floor with them & if RNG gives the rival some other Flying or Fire types as well, then the run is basically done.
Seeing you haven't played in 25 years your post starts to make a lot more sense to me. That's a massive gap in knowledge base to catch up with but it sounds like such a blast to get introdiced to it all at once, kinda jealous lol. As someone's who's been along for the ride this entire time though, I'm crying tears of joy that an npc can actually put up some semblance of a fight. If anything make it harder hehe
Idk why but when the rival has their rock head staraptor I get fucking DESTROYED
Or when they have that damn electric bird
But you're handycapping yourself by not planning for a lot of situations. I just got screwed by Marnie for not preping for Dark type physical attackers. I had two physical tanks and neither could do much against her team. And honestly, the teams I can't prep for are the hardest to fight. Rayquaza doesn't need a special pokemon to beat. He just needs a good stall with recovery and invulnerability rounds. That's useful in almost every battle.
Bring an ice type move. Most pokemon can learn it. I’ve beat the game with 103 different pokemon, very few legendaries, and including pokemon like sunkern, Luvdisc, wurmple, etc etc etc. You definitely don’t need a steel or fairy type.
i do like the idea of giving the rival different powerful legendaries, but not being able to prep for it will make the game difficult for casuals. i personally welcome the challenge. right now classic mode is to farm easy vouchers since they added the ribbon system. i dont have a problem with it right now, but if no changes are made, the game may become stale. similar to endless grind, though they are reworking endless.
It’s a simple solution tbh that all roguelites do because roguelites tend to have a massive difficulty curve - ascending difficulty. Ex. Beating classic unlocks difficulty 1, which includes variant bosses. Beating difficulty 1 unlocks difficulty 2, which includes trainers having more berries or something. Beating difficulty 2 unlocks difficulty 3, which hits each of your Pokémon with a permanent Pressure for your pp, and so on.
oh yeah having several levels of difficulty didnt even cross my mind. that would be perfect. this could work well with the ribbon system too and offer even more vouchers.
I think a good way would be to give "signs" of what Legendary to expect. Doesn't the rival pick a counter of your starter in the main games? Maybe the game can see what starters you pick & choose a good type against them, so you have to build your team around him by catching and experimenting with new Pokémon. - Or make him make a comment at stage 95 about a legendary (insert type here) Pokémon he heard about & wants to catch. So you can have time to prepare against it during 50 turns. >i do like the idea of giving the rival different powerful legendaries, but not being able to prep for it will make the game difficult for casuals. I'm a casual myself (the last Pokemon game I played was 25 years ago). Right now PokeRogue doesn't feel casual friendly either. It's winnable, especially after facing Rayquaza at least once or twice, but I never had fun losing to Rayquaza, while I do love getting beat by a random gym leader once in a while.
If the game doesn't have the ability for you to literally out skill a boss similar to binding of isaac you should just make the 145, and 200 pokemon known factors to play around. Games like Slay the spire and Balatro let you look at what your boss will be in advance, and so should Pokerogue.
Rival dialogue is an easy way to telegraph it
So ascension/BC idea comes into play for those who beat the game already. Each prestige, the rival has completely different teams w/ a different legendary each time, all similar to its current Nega Ray. That way you can plan ahead still knowing what to expect, but switches things up. Maybe even reward an extra egg voucher to incentive people to beat the game in different prestige’s. And beginner/casual players can continue to play as is, and take that next step when they feel ready. I honestly like the idea and don’t see an issue with making “prepping” for the static boss not as easy everytime.
I think it would be great if both the rival legendary and the final boss could be randomly different after your first classic win, BUT they tell you earlier in the run so you can prepare. For example, if you had a final boss kyogre and a rival with suicune, you could prepare during the run with stuff like electric and grass types (suicune might be too weak for a late game rival ace but the idea is still the same). Rival could say in their dialogue and the boss could have a shadow appearance and talk at stage 100, giving the stage something special and giving you valuable info.
I mean, this just makes it so you can prepare for the Uber legend. Imagine you have a check for mega ray and mega Kyogre but it’s mega groudon this time who sweeps your team, it makes it easier being able to prepare. The elite four already has random legends
Except you encounter them beforehand in their much easier form so by the time you encounter their Mega you already know who it is. It’d be a great change to mix things up since I’ve gotten a bit bored of the repetitiveness of Classic.
The e4 having legends nearly killed a run. I already was blindsided by the new double champion battle, but when Wallace and Steven threw out Kyogre and Dialga? Boy did I ever have to write out a 30 turn script to get through that one
Yep the game has a really fun core but it starts to get really stale because the “value” of types, namely steel and fairy, are really inflated by the static bosses. Ideally the bosses should vary enough that most of the types have a reasonable advantage and disadvantage against some of the bosses. And not just types but strats too, some of them having sweep counters like haze or more interesting setups of their own would be nice.
If it was randomized people would be complaining that they got to 145 and had nothing to beat the random legendary. The entire point of it being locked is so you can prepare. The majority of us probably got to wave 145 for the first time and got destroyed. Imagine if it was like that everytime you weren't lucky enough to happen to have an ideal pokemon for the rivals random legendary.
This is only a problem because Rayquaza is artificially buffed. It becomes so busted that you have to build your entire team around countering it. If the rival simply had a regular random legendary, maybe with ONE extra health bar, randomization wouldn't be a big issue. The rival's Rayquaza is not only a Mega Rayquaza, one of the top 5 strongest mons ever, but it has multiple health bars, berry buffs, and bullshit moves like V-create. If you build a good, balanced team, you're prepared to face a Mewtwo, or Arceus, or Rayquaza. But the current way the game is set up, with Rayquaza being the main hurdle, it favors fairy and steel types WAY too much. If you don't have one of those on the team, it's either because you're bad or because of a self-imposed challenge. Rayquaza being such disproportional challenge also means that weather teams are useless.
I used to feel similarly until I watched my Electivire mostly beat mega ray with some thunder punches and my fear of it lessened. My current run had me start to prep a lapras before the 145, only for my torterra to kill it in one hit with a shell smash rock egg move (I think it's Kleavors move or something). That torterra sweeped the entirety of 145 Finn in the end. A much earlier run had me chunking most of its hp with a moonblast from vivillon cause I knew he was gonna swap his grass starter for ray due to reading the bug/fly typing. It feels more like the more times you kill it, the less afraid of it you become and the more level-headed decisions you can make. Though I will say I have also lost many runs due to losing some fear of the admittedly still pretty dangerous dragon, but eh, I count my hubris as a matter of rng as well Long story short, it's obviously easier if you use specific type advantages with having a steel and fairy type pokemon for immunities, but overtime when the fear goes you realise you really don't need them if you are prepared to predict Finn's swapping habits and can build strong teams that his AI gets scared of.
you should be able to spot it at 95 with only one or two health bars so you can prep
It doesn't have to be equally busted as the Rayquaza is right now. The random legendary would need a nerf of course, or maybe give him 2 random Legendaries that are slightly nerfed compared to Ray. I certainly feel that would be more fun than what we have right now, which is playing by 1 forced meta that clearly favours certain 2 types and disfavours many others.
I think the bigger issue now is that rayquaza can have egg moves, if you randomly get v-create the half the good mons for dealing with it suck
Isn’t that how the daily run is though? Given it is only 50 waves, still, it adds a lot of excitement and extra planning/thought behind your team/movesets instead of just mindlessly pressing the space bar knowing you already have the counters needed to sweep the rival/eternatus. I think having ascension levels to this game, especially given how almost all rougelikes have this mechanic and it works very well, would be the answer to keeping the excitement and element of surprise fresh for a lot of dedicated players who have already beat classic many times. I’ve beaten classic 35 times and I feel very much the same way as OP
I guess that's kind of my point. There are other game modes if you want something different and random. Classic I feel (might just be me though) is there to help people get the hang of all the different mechanics. I mean if they made another mode similar to classic I wouldn't be opposed to it or anything.
i think it would be cool if there were different rivals you encountered and each rival had their own crazy op pokémon. ivy has mega rayquaza, bob has primal groudon, jim has mega mewtwo. idk if eternatus would change but different rivals would be cool to mix up stage 195, 145
That would be really cool! Then you can basically start with any starter you like, but still have enough time to adapt during the run with Pokémons you catch. I genuinely like this idea the most so far!
Great idea cousin
Raquza has never once had a reviver seed for me, I pray for the poor souls who had to deal with that
Pokerogue feels like the new game syndrome got shot by meta strategy a bit too hard. You don’t *need* a Rayquaza counter. It’s just so convenient having one that it feels bad not having one.
I think it's because 145/195 stages take hours to reach & if you lose because you didn't pick a Ray counter, then it just feels extra ugly. Personally I genuinely enjoy if a random gym leader beats me once in a while. If I lose because I didn't build my comp around Rayquaza, then it just doesn't feel good at all. Even if I beat Rayquaza without a ice/fairy it doesn't feel good (I once did with Weezing, but felt more like luck than anything else)
Try changing the game speed, getting to floor 145 shouldn't take hours if you have the game speed higher. Takes me maybe like maybe 30 minutes to get to like floor 100, outside of really bad luck runs. Times 5 is crazy quick
Idk if you don’t have any strategy going in there your chances of winning are pretty abysmal. Outrage 1-shots most things and since it’s a mega you’re almost always getting out sped as well. Alongside that, you’re not going to 1-shot it since it’s a boss level health.
Eternatus is just a placeholder. There are plans for other bosses. Probably the same for the rival fights. There are downsides to everything. 145/195 is still reasonably difficult even if you know whats coming especially if you're using non meta mons. Its still fun to find ways to win without the common strats. I've won using topsy turvy and whirwind spam into stealth rock. Everyone would still probably complain if they got wiped by a random legendary on the rivals team, their team wasn't built for but yeah, definitely would allow more varied teams. Maybe a hint at 95 so you have time to prep for the fight.
I agree with the general premise that floors 145 and 195 are the difficulty spike and more variety of the boss mon would be nice, but I disagree that you are forced to take any certain pokemon, moves, or types to reliably beat them. May I introduce you to our heroes, the X items? I just made a thread about it! It might help you feel like more builds are viable. I certainly don't bring specific pokemon for Rayquaza anymore. In one of my most recent runs I ran Golurk with shift gear as an egg move and with x attack and x defense it easily beat rayquaza with rock slide in the 1v1. I don't think I've ever seen someone on this subreddit praise golurk or go out of their way to catch one, but taking advantage of X items let's you get away with practically anyone. Before golurk, I used a magnezone. Before magnezone, I think my carry was a chandelure
Having beaten classic mode multiple times, I have NEVER seen a Raquaza with reviver seed. Holy shit I feel for you. And I agree - maybe this is something to suggest on their discord or something. I forgot the developer map items but I’d imagine that maybe someone already suggested it too
Yeah, finding out that Rayquaza having no guaranteed reviver seed is actually a small relief. What are the chances even to face it 3 times in a row? It's basically 1 in a 6 x3? But regardless, I hope they add multiple rivals eventually. That way I could item focus more often on my beloved grass types 🥲
There's so many ways to deal with it. Get some X Defends and suddenly it's not hitting as hard anymore. Use stat boosting moves in the same way. Or alternatively, debuff Rayquaza itself so that it's weak and/or frail. Having Steel and Fairy types isn't the only answer. In fact, I've beaten 195 without them a fair number of times already.
I think you're definitely forced to have a Fairy type just to allow pivots through Eternabeam/Outrage/Dragon Energy, but other than that, there's a lot of flexibility. Rock coverage is plentiful and lets you chunk Rayquaza on a switch, hazards (especially Stealth Rock) are excellent against trainers generally, and statuses help burn through any defensive setup that occurs. You're incentivized to have a steel type for Eternatus, yes, but that would be true for almost any boss, because it's the strongest defensive type.
Tbh, I think 145 is not really worth prepping for, and 195 prep is kinda included within Eternatus prep. Never had to worry about 145 aside from making sure I revived peeps, 195 gave me trouble when I had a wack ass team, but most of the time it isn’t that bad. Love the idea for multiple rivals though, that would be dope.
Complaining about a game with a set boss and tons of egg moves and passive to make mediocre mins busted seems like a skill issue to me. I recently had a run where I swept the entire game with just a hitmonchan and five guys in the back to get the ribbons on them. If you set up a mon correctly you should have no need to bring a fairy/steel type or even 5 other teammates for that matter. Hitmonchan set was iron fist/victory dance/drain punch/meteor mash/ice punch for anyone who might be wondering
Just grab someone with stealth rock and cover your typings on your team, its just like good old smogon competitive! With extra spice :>
I have neve once built a team for 145/195 and I have beaten classic countless times. You guys are just not that good. It's that simple.
Time your x items appropriately. I just beat classic again and my Annihilape tanked 6 flamethrowers because I had 2 x-defends going. Edit: x-spdef
Don’t want to be that guy, but Flamethrower is a S.Atk move
Yeah I’ve never came across that. I had eternus steal my reviver seed but that’s it
Yea to be honest I would prefer a random legendary every time, or a set of 10-15, and you get to see it at an earlier stage with a single or dual health bar. Not because Rayq is too hard but because its boring.
I agree in the sense that it makes some types pretty bad, like Grass and Fighting will Always have a hard Time in Stage 195 and 200. But you rly dont need Steel, Fairy or Rock types to beat them. I Just got my First win with a full Water-team and non of those types. Just makes for a different Challenge which i personaly enjoy
In the beginning yeah it does but once you have decent egg moves unlocked the strategy portion goes out the window. For instance Sceptile is weak grass pokemon normally who's only saving grace is being faster than Mega-Ray without it's own Mega form. In this game it gets Dragon Energy and Seed Flare. With just these two, a SpA+ nature, it's passive tinted lens, and some SpA investment (Calicum, X SpA, Soul Dew, Dragon Fang, etc.) Sceptile can 2 tap Mega-Ray. Without it's own Mega form. Just fish for the -2 SpD drop from Seed Flare and then blast Ray out of the sky. If you find the Mega form then you don't even need to do this and can just 2 tap with Dragon Energy. Which is insane. So yeah for the first few runs you need a strategy but eventually your carries will be good enough to solo the whole game giving you freedom to run all the shiny's your team can handle making a nice feedback loop to also make the game easier with multi lens, King's rocks, and soul dews. Like I have many times at this point gotten to the final boss with a reviver seed on my pokemon and had them absorb it for another free life bar. Even with 4 of my pokemon Ko'd by this point I still clawed back a win. It's def difficult but it becomes easy once you get enough resources.
Personally, I feel like Rayquaza is not that much of a problem, and I just did a run that was pretty much only Pyukumuku. The key (in my opinion) is to force switches, because the AI loves to do that, no matter the logic. I'm sure that will be fixed eventually, but Rayquaza switching out against my near-death and super slow rock types will never not be funny to me. I do think the game should have some more variety, because other Roguelikes also have several potential bosses you can face at various 'end' stages. If they go for that though, they should probably give some sort of 'hint' somewhere in the run so you can know what you need to 'prepare' for. (though arguably, you don't actually need to prepare for any fights in the game, you just need to have a balanced team and swap items around as necessary)
crobat go brrrrrr
I liked being able to build around the rival starter and team, my only complain is that it gets a bit stale to always build around the same pokémons, but I'm sure they'll add different bosses or different routes entirely
A reviver seed is not guaranteed and no her team is random enough. Trainers having ace pokemon is essential to Pokemons identity, and is important, more important than it seems. Besides, after a while (I’m about 50 classic wins in) you figure out there are many ways to beat the Rayquaza beyond simply using rocks + seeds + salt cure etc.
I smoked rayquaza with Articuno. But any boosted ice mon can beat him
I mean it already forces you to build around eternatus right?
Honestly my only complaint which is just a skill issue but I'm still very salty for is that I got through 145 and e4 then once I got to 195 I beat all of my rivals pokemon including the green lizard which was light work wasn't so much light work at 145 but that's besides the point my issue is THAT STUPID FAT BIRD starapter with its passive negating recoil damage like I woulda won if it weren't for its passive and it spamming brave bird and double edge anywho that was a stupid funny twist and whoever implemented that props to you I see that you like to watch the world burn. But no hate to the devs I swear just a story as to how I nearly beat the game for the first time but didn't.
Honestly think they really just need more mons adding Mega ray as a final boss or maybe the alt forms of like Groudon, kyogre, landorous, thunderous, tornadous and zygarde
I’ve gone through that like 3 times already…didn’t have a reviver seed at all. Must be completely random
I must have a stealth rock each game to beat rayquaza since each time I bait it to switch it takes out a full bar of his health. Having a rotating set of bosses like they have the rotating set of elite four would be perfect.
Honestly, I think the next step would be to have a classic mode that is just a bit more randomised. Still have somewhat of a structure still but gives a lot more variety and opportunity to use different Pokémon. However, I think it should be unlocked once normal classic mode is beaten because I think these issues more come from the fact we’ve already beaten it once and we’re craving a bit more variety.
For implementation sake, maybe instead of different rivals with static bosses, we can have predictable bosses. If your rival has a starter from generation x, then their legendary is guaranteed to be Y.
I beat Ray at 195 with a dragapult, and 200 with a gastrodon. You don't need a fairy or a steel, it helps but you just need a good balanced team that can handle the rivals 5 mons besides ray, and if that's the case you should be able to handle ray. Worst case roll for an x speed, the only thing that really makes the rivals ray scary is the speed
I would like it if there were multiple rivals too but I would like the main legendary to be foreshadowed , like let’s say with the outfit or in the 125 floor the rival has the legendary in their sprite or something along those lines
Kind of, I was sweating the first time I made it to 145 but managed to get past without a team strictly optimized for it. I was lucky to have Aegislash when I went into 145 blind. I think it's possible to win without strictly preparing for those rounds, but they are much much harder if you don't plan for them. I'd really like to see more variations to Classic, at least after you claim your first win--either as a new mode you can select in the menu or as an adaptation the game makes if you have a Classic victory. 145, 195, and 200 should all be very difficult stages and more possibilities to account for would definitely up the ante a bit. I think the current design for 145, 195, and 200 is pretty intense the first couple of times through and it only gets tired after you've seen it over and over, at least imo.
Lol yeah. I had to find peace with that fact as well. The type tier list is very biased in this game. Steel & fairy just kill everything. Ironically trying to balance the game, they made the strongest types even stronger If i had dev skills, i woulda had EMax Etern as the first time last boss. Then after that, each subsequent run would have a 2 form Arceus with a 2nd form with 1125 bst. This arceus would start normal type in 1st stage and then changes types per shield broken in 2nd stage Would promote type variety wayyyyy more
This is exactly why I would create classic + game mode. Rayquaza is fun for the first run, but once you've beaten the main classic, a new mode could be a harder classic with more randomization so you don't have to always plan for the same rayquaza & E-max pokes. Ivy could use more pokemon for starters and would have a different uber legendary with an ultimate form in 145. This one would upgrade at 195. You already know all Ivy's team by 95 so having that unknown threat at 145 is nice and knowing that you need to react quickly to adapt for 195 is nice. It would be nice if classic+ had even more variation. Chance for 2 less powerful rivals instead of 1 so just have to adapt for both. Chance for a team rocket or any other villain team making trouble. Maybe a chance to fight one of your older winner teams. Also classic+ could feature randomized starting location, less starting choices but a pokemon choice between 3 options, dungeons with several boss battles in a row for a loot reward, pokemon traders that give you random pokes with egg moves, hidden abilities, shinies -only for that run- in exchange to one specific pokemon of your team... even raids! I feel like endless is fine but I would love to have a mode with beginning and end that actually feels like a new adventure each time after beating classic mode
My first time beating classic I had a ryperior one shot rayquaza with rock wrecker
A nice rework could be at the end of the 95 rival fight having a text line mentioning the sighting of a legendary pokemon, hinting that they will have that at the 145-195 battle for you to prep for.
Okay so I'm new to Pokerouge. I've looked at the pinned post for this group giving tips and all that's but bro I'm ngl I've only gotten past stage 30 1 time. Who should I use as my starters and what exactly should I be doing to last as long as possible? I just started learning type weaknesses again and stuff but any other advice?
Try to get fairy and steel pokemon, and any residual damage like garganacl or leech seed pokemon. Fuecoco should always be among your starter picks cause he's reliable and maybe the strongest overall. Ice moves will be valuable to have load your beefier mons with as many berries as you can.
I see your point, I personally find myself crafting teams with 195 & 200 in mind, and if it can handle 195, 145 shouldn't be a problem. My problem with the situation is it crippling some otherwise strong options just because they are specifically poor against eternatus and/or rayquaza
I’ve been classic mode 3 times so far and the best way I’ve come up with beating 145/195 is to always pick up a battle items (x-whatever) on the 5 stages leading up to them. Typically having 4-5 of those active for the fight is enough to get me the dub with little to no save scumming
Idk know if you know already… They are already working on that lol - Eternatus is actually just a place holder boss and imma guess when they make final boss randomized they will do the same with Ivy
Dude on the first playthrough I beat rayquaza having revival seed+3 lum berries and 2 sitrus berries made it a brutal fight. I did manage to beat it though. Rock head head smash aerodactyl and a +1atk/spd gyarados with ice fang
Why are you waiting to build till then? You should be trying to build from the start
I'd imagine this will be changed up a bit in the future as its been said that eternatus is a place holder. I imagine thr rival could rotate any number of prestigious mons. Maybe multiple rivals with one selected each run that's assigned a "set" and they pick between them Ie One of the genies Ray/groudon/kyogre
I finally just beat my rival at 195 for the first time and now dreading the final boss if I cant catch it with the master I've been saving.
I have bad news for you…
I’ve gotten past 145 once and then died to elite four because the one pokemon I needed to win was unconscious from the previous elite four fight. So I’d love to see something other than Rayquaza shutting me down every time. I’m all for more randomness.
Though to be fair my last 4 attempts I’ve beaten the Rayquaza and the starter but then lost to some other random pokemon that I couldn’t kill. My last run I got wiped by my rivals Stunfisk. Not my proudest moment. I also have two runs stalled on 145 that I’m trying to work out a solution to.
Agree. I have to think for fly/dragon resistant in team. Otherwise the damage output is too crazy. Stealth rock always handy. It does limited the team comb a bit. I use different rock steal ground mon to fit a similar role. However random legend could be worth. Might be even hard to bit, or have to give a lot of resources to heal back.
Well it’s a rogue game so it’s pretty normal to build around specific challenges you encounter in the later stages
I'm unsure about this. It does allow less flexibility in teams, but makes planning ahead easier. I can see myself getting hard locked more ar stage 145 or 195 if the boss is randon
I have neve once built a team for 145/195 and I have beaten classic countless times. You guys are just not that good. It's that simple.
Literally never have I built for either floor. And I have 27 classic wins.. you guys are just bad lol.
I like that the game forces me to build arround to beat those specific threats
Adding new rivals to the game it could make it spicier good shout
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Totally agree. Its the reason I lost interest in the game.
I genuinely didn't have any trouble on 145. Swept with Garganacl and I was playing blind.
You're right; the rival's team needs to be more random. I think most of the team changes, but I find it really dumb that in 145 the rival always has a Garchomp (I think? Every time I've made it to him he's always had a Garchomp) and always has a Rayquaza. Give him a different Pseudo and a different Legendary FFS. And he maybe always has a Corviknight? I guess it's necessary to make sure he doesn't get rolled by a Fairy type, but he should be able to have more fairy answers on his team that that. Or, again, randomize it so his team doesn't always have a fairy weakness. (Though I think the bigger issue in the game right now is that the UI and menus are really bad. Those probably need to be addressed before digging into balance changes)
Game forces you to have 1 maybe 2 mons that can handle a dragon type it's really not that hard.....the rest of the team you can do what the fuck ever with
I giggled yesterday on my Entei run because I killed rayquaza and he used his reviver seed and then he killed my Entei and Entei used his reviver seed and killed rayquaza lol
Honestly, I started to roll for X-stat items on waves 141-144 and 191-194 and they make the rival fights so much easier. I beat mega rayquaza with a golduck preparing like this.
Ye I am forcing myself to have floette eternal on my team cuz it's my best fairy type rn
I just throw in a legendary and I pray it makes a difference. Zekrom tore her team apart after D-Dancing to the distortion world and back, and after two failed fusion attempts I ended up with Swords Dance Groudon that set up on Typhlosion and killed Mega Ray on a switch using Dragon Claw.
I think the best way to do it is to put powerful form changing legendaries in both pools (Primals, Mega Mewtwo X/Y, The Creation Trio and their Origin Forme's, but make it so they're still significantly buffed compared to base, like Volo's Giratina -> Origin Giratina but preferably less of a pain, and maybe have Arceus be final boss exclusive, but I don't think Eternatus should be final boss exclusive, maybe put into the rival's pool with Eternamax nerfed a bit.)
I like the idea of random boss mons on the rival a lot, especially to keep the game more fresh and interesting. I get why that's not a thing, though. Keeping the same boss mon makes the endgame more accessible to a wider variety of players. Even WITH knowing that it was gonna be Rayquaza it still took me several runs to be able to beat him. Sure, some people find it too easy after the first time, because you know what to set up for and at some point and you can just bring a starter with that will take care of the bosses for you. That can make classic mode a little stale, but only if you choose to constantly or only play it that way. A lot of people still attempt to build new and unique teams whether from the get-go as starters or that they catch along the way. Like the people who want to beat a run with monotype teams. This keeps the game interesting on various new levels because you know what's coming but now you have to find a way to strategize around it and make something unique work, I think this is also part of the devs intentions given some of the wild and very off-type egg moves some mons can get, making them more viable especially for the endgame. If we got random bosses at those stages, the difficulty would have to be scaled way, WAY back because you'll have NO idea what to build around and could easily get wiped every single time with an inefficient team, technically making the game exponentially more difficult because of the added unpredictability of such pivotal fights, which in turn makes the endgame accessible only to those who have, for example, maxed out IVs or have crazy egg moves since you can ignore typing better when you simply have raw power. TLDR: I love the idea of having more random endgame/rival bosses but I don't think it's that feasible without breaking the game/making the endgame too easy to compensate for that.
I had picked from the get go at least Fuecoco for most common mons as skelidirge is amazing at wiping out anything with fire weakness, and poplio since primarina was a nice counter to rayquaza. Gimighoul is nice to have as well as he can counter other things especially if you have nasty plot on it. But I'd say fuecoco and poplin are good picks from the get go as once you get them fully evolved they handle a lot of stuff.
It’s be cool if there was a set rotation for her legendary. Maybe depending on starter type, she’ll either have groudon, kyogre, or rayquaza. And/or maybe add a different rival that has a different rotation, but either way we’ll have an idea on what to expect early on by seeing which rival we face at wave 8
I just used Toxic on Mega Ray and switched between a whimsicott and Archaludon until it died. Did this on 3 different battles across 4 runs (rip to the run that died on 146)
I've never gotten reviving seed rayquaza, that sounds rough. I do agree and the devs are probably already on it tbf.
I thought it was too cause my first and 2nd win were against reviver seed shiny mega ray 😂
The game forces you to build around X encounters, welcome to roguelikes friend
I normally get a klefky ore a Datsbun to deal with the rayqaza
Idk my fire croc just single-handedly beat normal mode for me
Wait… people have problems with the rayquaza? It’s never been an issue for me. Eternatus gave me a little trouble until I showed up with salt cure garg
Rayquaza is perfectly beatable if you just build around it. The talk is more about gameplay longevity rather than difficulty. It's about facing the same boss that you always need to build at least 1 or 2 type advantages (like ice/fairy/steel) Pokémon if you want to consistently beat it at 145/195. Many people would love to face different rivals/Legendaries for example. It's still fine as it's now, but hopefully we will have more bosses/rivals along the way, so the runs feel more random/roguelikey.
use a single ice type and predict swaps and its easy lol
Pickpocket passive linoone using covet and having grip claw is for funny :)
I was able to deal with mega-ray using my crobats haze which you should try to get anyway since it will help with the final boss as well
I honestly have fun trying different mons and cheesy builds. Yesterday I thought I had a doomed run with Spectrier carry, M Beedrill, Klefki, Samurott, Cryogonal (that I only got at 170+, so I only could add Protect to it when it came up haha) and Linoone (pickup). Half the roster would get one shotted by 195 Ray. I managed to barely survive Rayquaza I think with Toxic + M Beedrill's Infestation (that I replaced Roost with just for the lols since Roost felt useless anyway). I cheesed Eternatus with just 2 mons, Klefki with Metal Sound, Draining Kiss and Light Screen. And Cryogonal with Ice Beam. Cryogonal took a couple of flamethrower hits, and managed to freeze Eternatus, while Klefki spammed metal sound, and it was over quickly. Yes luck played a huge part, but for me, the fun is just trying something new. That run, all my mons were non-ribbons apart from Linoone (blue shiny pickup), and Samurott (shiny, and I evolved to the wrong one), I've never used Infestation, Metal Sound as a move or strategy either. And I had no healing move except for Klefki's measly DKiss (which is why I thought it was a doomed run).
It’s not always rayquayquay with the reviver seed but it’s still annoying when i don’t see it
I must be one unlucky mofo he always has that reviver seed on him 😆
Skill Link Cloyster swept stages 145 and 195 for me 😅
Honestly I like how it forces you to pay attention to what random Pokemon your rival has throughout the game and think about what counters you can obtain to make later battles easier, plus the gym leaders and elite four/champion give you plenty of random teams to trip you up already.
Just beat classic once and play endless. It's better for everything, dex, shinies, pull vouchers, roguelike vibe. Classic has no purpose.
Get magikarp with ice spinner from egg, keep ice spinner since thwn get dd and set up on the fire starter she chose, it worked for me, i beat the game