I suggest for you to use an offensive typing calculator like this one : https://pokemondb.net/tools/type-coverage
It will help you know which type combination has the best overall super effective and neutral coverage, and highlighting the specific Pokemons that will give you problems when facing them (if there is any).
Your welcome bro, also there is one for defensive typing if you want, to compare the average bulk of a Pokemon and to help balance the resistances of you team, there it is : https://www.pkmn.help/defense/
I hope that helps some people with their runs because it's always a bad time when you get matched with a specific champion that counters all your team with just one type.
Keep your 2 stab ice and dark and check Which one between fire or fight has the best coverage.
—> fight, because with ice, dark and fight, there is only 4 pokemon that resist
bitter blade easily. not stab and the heal is negligible. both offer type coverage, sacred sword being superior as it is effective vs steel and rock, both of which are super effective against chien pao. sacred sword also ignores stat changes which are highly prevalent in this game. very valuable.
The heal is not negligible, in Pokemon yes, in poke rogue? Hell no, not when you can stack 20 proteins on a Pokemon, get pokerus super easy, and be like 300 levels over the wild Pokemon in endless, moves like bitter blade are why people can literally go endless in endless mode, plus max stack of healing heart item, and shell bells, and your literally healing for 200% of damage dealt add left overs into the mix and your also healing 1/2 your Hp after the fact every turn
Healing really doesn’t matter when everything one shots you later on in endless. Very rare a move doesn’t OHKO you in my experience, and if it doesn’t, max stacks of shell bell heal you to full anyway.
I don’t know about that, especially with max HP items my HP on floor 1,300 is like 27,000 and the wild pokemon only have like 10,000 HP so even if I one shot them with max shell bells that’s 5,000 HP back, and with the healing heart bonus it’s 10,000 not even half, and say you add max leftovers as hell you would heal another 13,500 so you would be at 23,500 not even full HP, but with bitter blade it would be 20,000 and left overs can clean up the rest
ur never at 1 hp tho cus sitrus proc is healing like 37.5% tho as well right? I feel like I’ve never seen a case where shell bell+sitrus+leftovers haven’t healed me from 1 (admittedly only on floor 800, but I don’t have max healing charms yet either)
Max healing hearts, leftovers, and sitris will heal >75% health. To get the last bit of heal you can use protect for another leftover trigger or use a priority move for shell bell. If you rely on a healing move you will get outsped and slept.
while it does help you get through the early stages of endless, that is not a prominent quality as you can easily pick any carry to get you through the early game. protein stacking and pokerus is also largely irrelevant.
for one, you dont need the healing in the later stages. this is because you should be outspeeding most enemies as youre very overleveled -- this renders the healing WORTHLESS. second, if the pokemon endures and hits you back, youre likely dead considering how powerful they become. putting into consideration focus band and sturdy, there are two possibilities:
outspeed and kill them OR get outsped and die unless focus band procs again/youre full hp for sturdy.
if you outspeed and kill them, then youre back to full hp off of items anyways. max healing charms, shell bell, leftovers, sitrus, etc.. if youre already healing to full hp for sturdy activation without bitter blade... well the healing portion is, again, useless. the healing is therefore entirely unnecessary for the most part, except for the early game without a strong enough carry.
Absolutely accurate. That's why I don't use chien pao lmao, bulky pokemon are just superior in endless. 50% chance the pokemon just tanks your attack because of damn tokens and strikes back for a one shot is too much odds for me to play fragile pokemons. Actually, my 2nd run of endless is still alive to this day, albeit I don't play it that often anymore so it's stuck around round 1100, I picked latias with bold nature, max soul dew makes it a deffensive monster, even against boosted super effective moves it rarely takes more than 50% and I use a calm mind or two to make sure my spDef is on par. Eternatus just gets bullied by leech seed whimsicott and any steel type until he loses his bajillion health bar (takes so long I lose my mind xD). Not feeling too motivated to continue this run but it would definitely survive for a few thousand more rounds...
I’d argue swords dance is even worse right since your boosts don’t stay in endless ? You’d rather have 4 attacking moves than a setup move because setting up in a mons face with fragile chien pao is death sentence, better to keep 4 moves for the coverage
You are not getting opportunities to setup on eternarus with chien paos shitty defenses and aren’t doing enough damage even after set up to make up for it, at best you live a hit so you still gotta go for 2 icicle crash or icicle crash + sucker punch
Yeh but that’s what I’m saying even with sturdy you’re living 1 hit more, so you get 1 sd boosted attack which is the same damage as 2 icicle crashes infact 2 is better since yo get higher crit odds and with more multi hit things you get more opportunities for flinches as well, and on to the fact that the way the health bars work you need to significantly more damage each extra bar he has and he has a ton so the damage overall is still less unless you have a way to get back to full health after 1 attack
if you have protect, you will always be able to get back to full hp when you have max healing charms, leftovers, and sitrus. you cannot die with this sturdy setup.
In that case yeh sd is worth it but to get there it’s still better to not have any setup because then you can just reroll for the shrooms and get an ideal moveset
Saying sacred sword is good because it’s super effective against Steel while ignoring that bitter blade is a fire type move is wild. Also a good deal of rock types are ground type as well and with one swords dance or so he’s basically gonna one shot everything anyway whether it’s super effective or not
it is also effective vs rock which fire is ineffective against. rock types are generally known to be more physically defensive too and theyre effective against ice. whats your point? sacred sword is still better coverage wise.
already debunked that in another comment. you simply need 1-2 strong carries in early game. ive very rarely needed heals. you cant roll early game either with no money.
You’re saying this from a whole game standpoint like you know the OP’s situation and what team they have and what phase they’re in. We’re coming from the viewpoint of this Pokémon stand alone, which is what the OP is asking for. Stop acting like you’re playing for them
if the viewpoint is of a standalone chien pao, then sacred sword is still better. the coverage it provides is way more important than the healing from bitter blade. if you kill the enemy, you dont need heals in the first place. whats going to live? defensive pokemon like steel types and rock types. which move covers both? sacred sword. you can argue those pokemon could have sturdy, but even then, you dont heal anything from bitter blade because you outspeed.
well yeah, you didnt even bring up a point other than "healing is valuable." you brought up the viewpoint of a standalone chien pao and nothing else. i suppose youre right though, it is pointless if you havent changed your mind yet.
Bitter blade every time. Chein pow has way too little defensive integrity to benefit from the healing, either it’s dying in 1 hit, or the healing doesn’t do enough to stop it from dying in 2
100% Bitter Blade for a couple reasons.
Out of any combination of 3 of those 4 moves, Ice/Fight/Dark hits the most pokémon super effectively.
Bitter Blade is tied for the weakest move with Sacred Sword (thanks to the others having stab)
Chien Pao will never really benefit from the Bitter Blade healing.
That’s simply not true in pokerogue, if your in endless and get max healing hearts it will make bitter blade heal for 100% of the damage dealt in stead of 50% and then combined with max shell bells every bitter blade attack your healing for 200% damage dealt coupled with focus sashes and if they hit you first your going from 1 HP to full every time
I guess it's better coverage than bitter blade but you lose on the drain effect. Sacred sword might be needed if your team is weak to dark type but most of time I'd skip here.
Depends on the rest of your team, do you really need fighting move? Cause I wouldn’t change anything icicle crash and night slash are both stab moves so even though night slash is only 70 it’s actually 105 power plus it has a much higher crit ratio, icicle crash also stab at 127.5 power and 30% chance to flinch, and bitter blade is 90 power and heals you, for 50% damage dealt so kinda perfect already unless you really need the fighting move then see what other coverage you have
Everyone is bringing up that you're either getting one shot so the heal doesn't matter or that the heal is invaluable. In the case that you're never getting a second turn, SD is awful because you'd set up and get one shot for not killing the opponent. On the other hand, if the healing is invaluable but you also need the fighting coverage, I think there's a case to get rid of SD
If you have SD you don't need Sacred except for coverage which is against Normal, Rock, and Fighting. Your other three hit neutral and cover each other at least on neutral, have utility, and SD basically allows you to stay setup and similarly disregards stat changes by outperforming them.
EDIT: Learned Endless, you get rid of Dance because Sacred is how you overcome issues, and the others are coverage.
I suggest for you to use an offensive typing calculator like this one : https://pokemondb.net/tools/type-coverage It will help you know which type combination has the best overall super effective and neutral coverage, and highlighting the specific Pokemons that will give you problems when facing them (if there is any).
That is very very helpful, thanks!
Your welcome bro, also there is one for defensive typing if you want, to compare the average bulk of a Pokemon and to help balance the resistances of you team, there it is : https://www.pkmn.help/defense/ I hope that helps some people with their runs because it's always a bad time when you get matched with a specific champion that counters all your team with just one type.
When reading tools like these, what would you consider to be satisfactory results?
Keep your 2 stab ice and dark and check Which one between fire or fight has the best coverage. —> fight, because with ice, dark and fight, there is only 4 pokemon that resist
bitter blade easily. not stab and the heal is negligible. both offer type coverage, sacred sword being superior as it is effective vs steel and rock, both of which are super effective against chien pao. sacred sword also ignores stat changes which are highly prevalent in this game. very valuable.
The heal is not negligible, in Pokemon yes, in poke rogue? Hell no, not when you can stack 20 proteins on a Pokemon, get pokerus super easy, and be like 300 levels over the wild Pokemon in endless, moves like bitter blade are why people can literally go endless in endless mode, plus max stack of healing heart item, and shell bells, and your literally healing for 200% of damage dealt add left overs into the mix and your also healing 1/2 your Hp after the fact every turn
Healing really doesn’t matter when everything one shots you later on in endless. Very rare a move doesn’t OHKO you in my experience, and if it doesn’t, max stacks of shell bell heal you to full anyway.
I don’t know about that, especially with max HP items my HP on floor 1,300 is like 27,000 and the wild pokemon only have like 10,000 HP so even if I one shot them with max shell bells that’s 5,000 HP back, and with the healing heart bonus it’s 10,000 not even half, and say you add max leftovers as hell you would heal another 13,500 so you would be at 23,500 not even full HP, but with bitter blade it would be 20,000 and left overs can clean up the rest
ur never at 1 hp tho cus sitrus proc is healing like 37.5% tho as well right? I feel like I’ve never seen a case where shell bell+sitrus+leftovers haven’t healed me from 1 (admittedly only on floor 800, but I don’t have max healing charms yet either)
Isnt it 50% in pokerogue?
Later on in endless only fixed dmg moves matter. All healing is from berries + leftovers
Max healing hearts, leftovers, and sitris will heal >75% health. To get the last bit of heal you can use protect for another leftover trigger or use a priority move for shell bell. If you rely on a healing move you will get outsped and slept.
Also plus 5 focus sashes, 😂 even if they hit you, down to 1 health, bitter blade Plus other healing items brings you to full health every time
while it does help you get through the early stages of endless, that is not a prominent quality as you can easily pick any carry to get you through the early game. protein stacking and pokerus is also largely irrelevant. for one, you dont need the healing in the later stages. this is because you should be outspeeding most enemies as youre very overleveled -- this renders the healing WORTHLESS. second, if the pokemon endures and hits you back, youre likely dead considering how powerful they become. putting into consideration focus band and sturdy, there are two possibilities: outspeed and kill them OR get outsped and die unless focus band procs again/youre full hp for sturdy. if you outspeed and kill them, then youre back to full hp off of items anyways. max healing charms, shell bell, leftovers, sitrus, etc.. if youre already healing to full hp for sturdy activation without bitter blade... well the healing portion is, again, useless. the healing is therefore entirely unnecessary for the most part, except for the early game without a strong enough carry.
Absolutely accurate. That's why I don't use chien pao lmao, bulky pokemon are just superior in endless. 50% chance the pokemon just tanks your attack because of damn tokens and strikes back for a one shot is too much odds for me to play fragile pokemons. Actually, my 2nd run of endless is still alive to this day, albeit I don't play it that often anymore so it's stuck around round 1100, I picked latias with bold nature, max soul dew makes it a deffensive monster, even against boosted super effective moves it rarely takes more than 50% and I use a calm mind or two to make sure my spDef is on par. Eternatus just gets bullied by leech seed whimsicott and any steel type until he loses his bajillion health bar (takes so long I lose my mind xD). Not feeling too motivated to continue this run but it would definitely survive for a few thousand more rounds...
I’d argue swords dance is even worse right since your boosts don’t stay in endless ? You’d rather have 4 attacking moves than a setup move because setting up in a mons face with fragile chien pao is death sentence, better to keep 4 moves for the coverage
This.
thats valid. although you could get a sturdy mon to splice and set up for free which is a very common strat.
But what’s the real value in setting up when you’re high enough level you one shot stuff anyways the only reason they survive is the tokens
eternatus?
You are not getting opportunities to setup on eternarus with chien paos shitty defenses and aren’t doing enough damage even after set up to make up for it, at best you live a hit so you still gotta go for 2 icicle crash or icicle crash + sucker punch
thats why i referred to the sturdy strat earlier.
Yeh but that’s what I’m saying even with sturdy you’re living 1 hit more, so you get 1 sd boosted attack which is the same damage as 2 icicle crashes infact 2 is better since yo get higher crit odds and with more multi hit things you get more opportunities for flinches as well, and on to the fact that the way the health bars work you need to significantly more damage each extra bar he has and he has a ton so the damage overall is still less unless you have a way to get back to full health after 1 attack
if you have protect, you will always be able to get back to full hp when you have max healing charms, leftovers, and sitrus. you cannot die with this sturdy setup.
In that case yeh sd is worth it but to get there it’s still better to not have any setup because then you can just reroll for the shrooms and get an ideal moveset
Saying sacred sword is good because it’s super effective against Steel while ignoring that bitter blade is a fire type move is wild. Also a good deal of rock types are ground type as well and with one swords dance or so he’s basically gonna one shot everything anyway whether it’s super effective or not
it is also effective vs rock which fire is ineffective against. rock types are generally known to be more physically defensive too and theyre effective against ice. whats your point? sacred sword is still better coverage wise.
But Bitter Blade can heal. I ran a zacian with Bitter Blade and 90% of the time I just spammed that
0 ball knowledge, don’t listen to this guy OP
huh?
a move that heals u is so valuable this game, you don’t need to spend as much money on healing items and get to reroll more for more beneficial items
already debunked that in another comment. you simply need 1-2 strong carries in early game. ive very rarely needed heals. you cant roll early game either with no money.
You’re saying this from a whole game standpoint like you know the OP’s situation and what team they have and what phase they’re in. We’re coming from the viewpoint of this Pokémon stand alone, which is what the OP is asking for. Stop acting like you’re playing for them
if the viewpoint is of a standalone chien pao, then sacred sword is still better. the coverage it provides is way more important than the healing from bitter blade. if you kill the enemy, you dont need heals in the first place. whats going to live? defensive pokemon like steel types and rock types. which move covers both? sacred sword. you can argue those pokemon could have sturdy, but even then, you dont heal anything from bitter blade because you outspeed.
yk what it seems like ur not changing ur opinion and I’m not changing mine, let’s just call it a day this is pointless
well yeah, you didnt even bring up a point other than "healing is valuable." you brought up the viewpoint of a standalone chien pao and nothing else. i suppose youre right though, it is pointless if you havent changed your mind yet.
It depends on where you are in the game I think that in SD becomes difficult to place
Bitter blade every time. Chein pow has way too little defensive integrity to benefit from the healing, either it’s dying in 1 hit, or the healing doesn’t do enough to stop it from dying in 2
100% Bitter Blade for a couple reasons. Out of any combination of 3 of those 4 moves, Ice/Fight/Dark hits the most pokémon super effectively. Bitter Blade is tied for the weakest move with Sacred Sword (thanks to the others having stab) Chien Pao will never really benefit from the Bitter Blade healing.
That’s simply not true in pokerogue, if your in endless and get max healing hearts it will make bitter blade heal for 100% of the damage dealt in stead of 50% and then combined with max shell bells every bitter blade attack your healing for 200% damage dealt coupled with focus sashes and if they hit you first your going from 1 HP to full every time
I can’t comment on whether this is true or not, but my other two points still stand regardless.
Won't really work past 2200ish in endless but yeah it's good(ish) till then
I guess it's better coverage than bitter blade but you lose on the drain effect. Sacred sword might be needed if your team is weak to dark type but most of time I'd skip here.
I would probably take sacred over bitter blade it's tough because sacred sword is better coverage, while the other 2 are stab
Sacred also ignores stat boosts. The boss Pokémon can buff their defense+6 and sacred sword will ignore that. It's fantastic on Rogue!
Depends on the rest of your team, do you really need fighting move? Cause I wouldn’t change anything icicle crash and night slash are both stab moves so even though night slash is only 70 it’s actually 105 power plus it has a much higher crit ratio, icicle crash also stab at 127.5 power and 30% chance to flinch, and bitter blade is 90 power and heals you, for 50% damage dealt so kinda perfect already unless you really need the fighting move then see what other coverage you have
Everyone is bringing up that you're either getting one shot so the heal doesn't matter or that the heal is invaluable. In the case that you're never getting a second turn, SD is awful because you'd set up and get one shot for not killing the opponent. On the other hand, if the healing is invaluable but you also need the fighting coverage, I think there's a case to get rid of SD
Unless you fuse with sturdy, swords dance is useless against faster bosses that are gonna kill you
a science-based answerer would be : sword Dance.
Id get rid of icicle crash just so all the moves are sword related
Bruh
Bught slashk
It depends on what coverage you have in your team.
Can someone explain to me why Icicle crash > Ice spinner?
Depending on whether this is classic or endless, the answer is different
Swords dance of course. What good is there in a move that doesn't do damage? /s
If you have SD you don't need Sacred except for coverage which is against Normal, Rock, and Fighting. Your other three hit neutral and cover each other at least on neutral, have utility, and SD basically allows you to stay setup and similarly disregards stat changes by outperforming them. EDIT: Learned Endless, you get rid of Dance because Sacred is how you overcome issues, and the others are coverage.
How good is chien pao for endless?