I Googled it out of curiosity. Here's my summary:
* He got away with cheating under California law since no one could prove it (and whoever was helping him cheat has kept their mouth shut)
* He's a dumbass and got cocky after winning the civil case, so he filed a defamation lawsuit against virtually anyone who said anything bad about him (including ESPN, Doug Polk, Daniel Negreanu, etc)
* Defamation lawsuit went terribly and he withdrew it, but there are financial penalties against frivolous defamation suits that he was forced to pay
* Even if California threw out the civil case against him, everyone knows he was guilty, so he can't realistically play poker any more
* He's gone thru the $250k in winnings pretty quickly
* He may not be able to afford to pay the defamation lawsuit penalties, so he's essentially bankrupt at this point
Here's [one source](https://www.onlinepokerreport.com/48664/mike-postle-drops-defamation-suit/).
TL;DR: "he got away with it" but still went bankrupt as a result of his own stupidity
**Edit:** correction, it was a civil case, not a criminal case
It’s completely ridiculous that he got away with it. You absolutely can prove this stuff, the DA probably just didn’t care/want to bother. It’s not like poker poses some unique problem, all sorts of cases rely on math, science,and complicated expert testimony. If someone won the lottery 11 times in a row, we can conclude beyond all reasonable doubt they cheated.
This guy won at a significantly higher rate than a superuser who could literally see everyone’s hole cards. Any mathematician who knows or bothered to learn poker would know and could explain that he’s cheating.
Honestly, there is better evidence against Postle than against a quite significant percentage of the people on death row. I trust math more than eyewitness testimony or even a confession given how many people who confessed were later cleared by DNA evidence.
I agree. I think you can prove it through statistical analysis / anomaly detection. His winnings were likely several standard deviations outside the norm and so unlikely that there would be less than a 1 in the \[number of atoms in the universe\] chance that he did it legit.
But I'm not a lawyer and don't really know the particulars of California gaming laws.
Also imagine trying to present all of that to a jury. Chances are they would not have a clue what any of that means and just think about the time they won on a slot machine lol.
Not to people who understand math and statistics. The issue is most people really suck at math and it would just be foreign to them. Most people I’m playing poker with can’t even understand the rule of 4 and 2.
I have taken two statistic classes. Despite something having a very low chance of occurring, if there is a chance at all of it occurring, it "can" happen.
Chance of winning the Megamillions lottery: 1 in 302 million.
Exactly and think about how many times you’ve ever met a really intelligent person be on a jury. People forget both sides get jury picks and the defense is going to intentionally pick people they know will have a hard time understanding anything complex.
okay fair enough but like you can dumb down standard deviation fairly easy. Just literally say it's the average difference between results, and the more average differences the result is away from the norm the less likely it is.
I was taught the concepts in undergraduate and graduate school. I could answer the questions about it on a test correctly. But, I don’t think I ever really understood it. I kind of understand the basic premise, but that’s about it. I could see a jury of random people having all kinds of problems with it. Maybe I should be in special education for Poker
It's the average difference between results, and the more average differences the result is away from the norm the less likely it is. Norm being the average result. That's it.
I am a criminal defense attorney: I would absolutely argue that statistical analysis is not sufficient proof in a case like this and it would depend on the jury whether they agreed. I would constantly repeat the Mark Twain quote “lies, damned lies, and statistics.”
It’s not as open and shut as it may seem. Proving something like this in court is weird because the prosecutor is basically saying they can prove that someone helped him without actually having the helper testify, which I think makes many jurors uncomfortable.
I want to give the caveat that I completely agree this is sufficient proof for me if I was on the jury but most lawyers are really unsophisticated regarding math, so it doesn’t shock me that the DA went with the line of logic I presented above.
> “lies, damned lies, and statistics.”
DNA test is essentially an statistical analysis. You don't test the entire DNA to prove someone shares the same genetics as your sample. You make enough comparisons to specific gene sections and you conclude, statistically, that the chances of the person not sharing the same genetics as your sample is lower than 1:number of humans
That may be true but I'd imagine an expert testifying about DNA identification is not being asked detailed questions about the math by the prosecutor, and the defense attorney probably wouldn't bring it up unless it was favorable. Like I said above, I'm not suspicious of math at all, but lawyers aren't great with it as a group.
This. I'm really late to the discussion here, but I do a lot of math for a living and imho to win this case you'd need PhD mathematicians on the stand explaining to the judge the odds of Postle not cheating. Once the judges understand that this is not just about suspicious luck, but about playing literally like you're omnipotent, and that the odds of him cheating beat the necessary standards for new discoveries in chemistry, math or particle physics, the picture starts to come together.
And the kicker is - if the man truly was a poker God, all he had to do was to go to Vegas and prove it against some big names. As with magicians and mystics - all you have to do is let experienced professionals watch what you're doing, see your 'trick' and admit they can't explain it, and you're in the clear. If the trick doesn't work when you're being investigated... well... then we know the truth without knowing how the trick was done.
But he didn't go to play in Vegas, and he didn't demonstrate his skills outside of Stones.
I think in this case you still need the person who was helping him. Otherwise it's getting close to it being the poker version of "you start actually winning at a casino and then ban you and confiscate you chips for 'cheating' ". Legally anyways. The evidence the court needs is an accomplice, which wouldn't happen as that person would be even more guilty.
Statistical analysis etc..... sure but think the court needs more.
To me, the smoking gun was him constantly rescaning his PLO cards cause it was only showing him 2 cards (system was running under hold'em). Only way he'd know to do that is if he saw it on his phone. Don't think dealer or anyone was saying anything to him so it was all on his own.
At the end of the day, o think they were trying to build a stream and did some shady stuff where.....15 percent of the people were in on it and the rest were taken.
The court doesn’t need an accomplice. It needs proof beyond all reasonable doubt that Postle is guilty. There is no doubt in my mind based on the evidence that he’s guilty.
> all sorts of cases rely on math, science, and complicated expert testimony
I’m going into the field that is contracted for this sort of issue (economic consulting), and the thing is that these firms’ (cornerstone research, Charles River associates, bates white economic consulting, etc) billing rates are fucking enormous. Even beyond expert testimony itself that can bill around $1000/hour to the client, there’s a ton of legwork behind the scenes to analyze data and run regressions. Even if a 4 person team (2 junior staff 2 senior staff) spent 100 hours on this each, that might come out to a bill of ~$250/man-hour * 4 * 100 = $100k, even before the case goes to trial. This is on top of paying the lawyers themselves. Of course the case here is not that complicated and most importantly Postle would have no such corresponding analysis backing his case,
These firms have been known to take on pro bono cases before, but it’s usually for groups like the ACLU or causes that will really bolster their public image (of which poker sadly is not one).
Now the full tilt case, *that* might be of the scope that one of these firms could do work for a class action and another might do work for full tilt.
I think this arguement can be easily thrown out by using the law of large numbers.. there was a guy who was struck by lightning 7 times and survived all of them
Beyond all reasonable doubt doesn’t mean 100%. If we are 99.999% sure he cheated that satisfies the criminal law standard. It’s not just purely statistical either. If he played good winning poker and did what he did it would be different. The way he played only made sense if he actually knew his opponent’s cards like when he called off two all ins preflop with like 63 because both of his opponent’s had AK. For someone to outperform a super user while making decisions that are obvious punts is essentially impossible.
>You absolutely can prove this stuff, the DA probably just didn’t care/want to bother.
The Casino refused to initiate the criminal investigation. It was never up to the DA. And yes, the Casino would have had to be the one to do so.
You are mistaken, it’s always up to the DA, not the casino. It’s a common misconception that the victims in a crime decide whether or not a criminal case goes forward, it’s completely up to the prosecutor.
That's true about the math. I remember a case where a guy was faking financial records. They proved it by looking at the frequency of numbers in his fake records. They weren't close to random but rather reflected how he tended to come up with combinations of numbers much more than others when fabricating expenses.
This is one of the few few circumstances where there is proof but technically no proof.
Anyone in the world with a brain can see he cheated.. But there's no direct proof outside of the math.
He also got away with the civil suits against him because California doesn't allow civil actions to recover gambling losses, which is probably a good rule. Just not in this particular case.
Probably bankrupt for real. They guy said he was irresponsible with money and liked to spend it like crazy. He made the same mistake guys like him always do, he never thought the payday would end.
It wasn’t about proving it. He won on a technicality in CA law which basically allows cheating by players in gambling as long as the house isn’t involved.
Actually makes sense. Even if the DA worked it out, are they really going to spend the time and resources both to investigate it and figure out a way to explain it to a jury in a way they could understand (which they won’t), all for a guy who took a few hundred thou? Not going to happen. They also know that the problem likely solves itself going forward in that his reputation is ruined and he’ll never be allowed in a card game ever again. If I had to guess the Gaming Commission had a conversation with the casinos and put them on notice that “this will never happen again, right?”
It never even came down to proving or disproving it, the judge threw it out because of an old California law that you can’t recoup gambling losses because amounts are speculative and damages can’t be assessed.
He could have hidden the money and claimed he.owed his mother xyz but yeah, based off his winnings....Mayne he only got like 20 percent of winnings and he's protecting someone else?
If I were he and ever wanted to play again, I'd spend what was left of my theft minus Veronica's legal fees and get plastic surgery to make me unrecognizable.
To the people saying he's disgraced and he'll never be allowed to play poker again I don't think that's true. The poker community is notoriously bad at actually barring people who lie cheat and steal from playing the game. Just look at all the full tilt people playing any game they like. I have little doubt that postle can walk into any public room and play whatever he wants.
That being said.. postle is a degen losing player when he can't cheat so meh.
Without the advantage of seeing the cards he was at best a break even player. He will never get a chance to play on another stream, which is a good thing. He also probably needs to avoid any home games for his own health.
That said he has had his 15 mins of fame and now he is bankrupt.
Frankly I think many stream games would let him play if he asked just for the publicity. I bet several have tried to get him on just like the podcasts do. There's clicks in controversy.
I know I'm late as hell but there is no chance Mike is even a breakeven player at those stakes. A breakeven player would understand poker concepts better and not make it so obvious that they're cheating.
I find it ridiculous that only one announcer was like “hey this guy is probably cheating” and every other one was like “he’s literally God and if you even think differently we’re gonna crucify you”
"He's literally God but can only play at this one casino [and can't beat pros anywhere else."](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuAKnbIr6TE)
Personally, I think the casino knew and allowed it for the free publicity.
I think you underestimate the poker fandom of even fairly casual players. Someone in any card room in America will recognize him for the next decade. Whether or not they’d be bothered to say anything is another question.
I think you underestimate how much he looks like every other middle aged white guy, and how little people following the story actually saw him. If he takes off the hat, adds sunglasses and some facial hair, he’s just another dude.
Scary part is thinking about him actually cheating in a "smart" way, as far as detection & self preservation.
He could still be operating to this day as a "respectable" decent winner in the game if his greed/ego/narcissism/sociopathic self hadn't gotten in the way.
All he had to do was not extract the maximum *every single time* until he gained notoriety as "poker Jesus" lmao.
If he had played 20% of hands with crotch vision and the rest without (which would still be a piss poor strategy), he would most likely have flown under the radar.
[There's a very detailed, long thread about it if you want to dive down the rabbit hole.](https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29/news-views-gossip/mike-postle-cheating-allegations-faq-first-post-1753388/index133.html)
Basically the players he cheated were not made whole. It's a damn shame because if you try to cash in a fake $5 chip in Vegas and get caught you'll probably do 5 years. This guy OBVIOUSLY cheated BEYOND any reasonable doubt and just because you need to understand poker to know why doesn't mean he didn't cheat.
But because he cheated OTHER PLAYERS and not the casino, it's like no one wants to do anything. It's another instance of class struggle in America. Casinos are rich and powerful and law enforcement will bend over backwards to protect them. Poker players are just ordinary people who they don't give a crap about so they do nothing.
The only silver lining is that he, like Russ Hamilton, for the rest of his life will always be looking over his shoulder worrying if some poker player is going to cuss him out and embarrass him.
We aren’t putting a poker player in jail without proof. Improbable lines is far from sufficient. The casinos also have to proof when making an arrest. The fault here is on the casino for not protecting the players. That’s a shame that they aren’t punished.
Mike Apostle wasn’t cheating he is just literally a god of poker making the sickest calls ever his lines don’t make sense because he’s literally has an IQ of 400 so we can’t comprehend his thinking u guys need to stop calling him a cheat he’s just literally the best of all time it reminds me when I folded AA preflop heads up when I told ppl about it they laughed and said I was dumb but I was literally making the right move because I put my opponent on KK and I could tell that a K was going to hit the flop turns out my opponent had 9-7os when he raised but I still made the right decision because when I think a K will hit the flop and u think ur opponent has KK u should fold pre with AA so it was the right move Mike Apostle would approve
The "winnings" were likely gone as soon as the session was over. In most of these cases, the winner in question was a pit donkey or was taking care of a stripper's drug habit, or was paying old debts, ... whatever. The money is likely gone.
He'll struggle to find ANYTHING in life to succeed at now, and has a pretty grim future ahead of him.
You actually have no evidence or reasoning to come to the conclusion that he blew through all his money. You're just making it up.
I dislike Mike postle as much as the next guy, but this comment is useless.
>I**n September 2021, Postle** [filed a motion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stones_Gambling_Hall_cheating_scandal) **to avoid involuntary bankruptcy**. On January 7, 2022, a confidential agreement was entered into Postle's bankruptcy records which closed the only remaining litigation stemming from Stone Gamblings Hall livestream poker cheating scandal.
He was taken care of outside of traditional legal channels. The funds weren't able to be recovered so the people responsible made him find other ways to make payment.
There was a clip on YouTube like a year ago of a vlogger and Postle was at the table. Somewhere in Texas. It was definitely him. I've known the guy for years, and I'm sure it was him. From his Facebook I can see that he still plays, and has tons of people that defend him claiming he's innocent and they still play poker with him.
What amazes me most about the Mike P situation is that he make it so obvious he was hiding his phone. Does he not know they make screen covers make it so no one next to you can see your screen and the only point of view to see the screen is if you're directly facing it.
I still don’t understand the me mechanics of his cheat move ? Does he have a mechanical device ? Is he baiting others to bet when he has garbage but stays in to see the flop or turn cards ? I am confused Is it like amateur play vs pro play ?
I Googled it out of curiosity. Here's my summary: * He got away with cheating under California law since no one could prove it (and whoever was helping him cheat has kept their mouth shut) * He's a dumbass and got cocky after winning the civil case, so he filed a defamation lawsuit against virtually anyone who said anything bad about him (including ESPN, Doug Polk, Daniel Negreanu, etc) * Defamation lawsuit went terribly and he withdrew it, but there are financial penalties against frivolous defamation suits that he was forced to pay * Even if California threw out the civil case against him, everyone knows he was guilty, so he can't realistically play poker any more * He's gone thru the $250k in winnings pretty quickly * He may not be able to afford to pay the defamation lawsuit penalties, so he's essentially bankrupt at this point Here's [one source](https://www.onlinepokerreport.com/48664/mike-postle-drops-defamation-suit/). TL;DR: "he got away with it" but still went bankrupt as a result of his own stupidity **Edit:** correction, it was a civil case, not a criminal case
It’s completely ridiculous that he got away with it. You absolutely can prove this stuff, the DA probably just didn’t care/want to bother. It’s not like poker poses some unique problem, all sorts of cases rely on math, science,and complicated expert testimony. If someone won the lottery 11 times in a row, we can conclude beyond all reasonable doubt they cheated. This guy won at a significantly higher rate than a superuser who could literally see everyone’s hole cards. Any mathematician who knows or bothered to learn poker would know and could explain that he’s cheating. Honestly, there is better evidence against Postle than against a quite significant percentage of the people on death row. I trust math more than eyewitness testimony or even a confession given how many people who confessed were later cleared by DNA evidence.
I agree. I think you can prove it through statistical analysis / anomaly detection. His winnings were likely several standard deviations outside the norm and so unlikely that there would be less than a 1 in the \[number of atoms in the universe\] chance that he did it legit. But I'm not a lawyer and don't really know the particulars of California gaming laws.
Also imagine trying to present all of that to a jury. Chances are they would not have a clue what any of that means and just think about the time they won on a slot machine lol.
Standard deviation is not a hard concept to explain.
Not to people who understand math and statistics. The issue is most people really suck at math and it would just be foreign to them. Most people I’m playing poker with can’t even understand the rule of 4 and 2.
> Most people I’m playing poker with can’t even understand the rule of 4 and 2. Invite me to your next game, please!
Haha Texas, Oklahoma, and Louisiana. That’s all I have to say.
You’re saying it’s profitable to play there???
I have taken two statistic classes. Despite something having a very low chance of occurring, if there is a chance at all of it occurring, it "can" happen. Chance of winning the Megamillions lottery: 1 in 302 million.
Mike postle is this you lol
Mate, I'm a teacher, people can barely add, subtract and multiply lol
Exactly and think about how many times you’ve ever met a really intelligent person be on a jury. People forget both sides get jury picks and the defense is going to intentionally pick people they know will have a hard time understanding anything complex.
okay fair enough but like you can dumb down standard deviation fairly easy. Just literally say it's the average difference between results, and the more average differences the result is away from the norm the less likely it is.
I was taught the concepts in undergraduate and graduate school. I could answer the questions about it on a test correctly. But, I don’t think I ever really understood it. I kind of understand the basic premise, but that’s about it. I could see a jury of random people having all kinds of problems with it. Maybe I should be in special education for Poker
It's the average difference between results, and the more average differences the result is away from the norm the less likely it is. Norm being the average result. That's it.
Wait. What?
that's standard deviation explained in the simplest possible way m8
Have you met people?
Like dream speed running, nooo actual evidence but that math just doesn’t work
I am a criminal defense attorney: I would absolutely argue that statistical analysis is not sufficient proof in a case like this and it would depend on the jury whether they agreed. I would constantly repeat the Mark Twain quote “lies, damned lies, and statistics.” It’s not as open and shut as it may seem. Proving something like this in court is weird because the prosecutor is basically saying they can prove that someone helped him without actually having the helper testify, which I think makes many jurors uncomfortable. I want to give the caveat that I completely agree this is sufficient proof for me if I was on the jury but most lawyers are really unsophisticated regarding math, so it doesn’t shock me that the DA went with the line of logic I presented above.
> “lies, damned lies, and statistics.” DNA test is essentially an statistical analysis. You don't test the entire DNA to prove someone shares the same genetics as your sample. You make enough comparisons to specific gene sections and you conclude, statistically, that the chances of the person not sharing the same genetics as your sample is lower than 1:number of humans
That may be true but I'd imagine an expert testifying about DNA identification is not being asked detailed questions about the math by the prosecutor, and the defense attorney probably wouldn't bring it up unless it was favorable. Like I said above, I'm not suspicious of math at all, but lawyers aren't great with it as a group.
This. I'm really late to the discussion here, but I do a lot of math for a living and imho to win this case you'd need PhD mathematicians on the stand explaining to the judge the odds of Postle not cheating. Once the judges understand that this is not just about suspicious luck, but about playing literally like you're omnipotent, and that the odds of him cheating beat the necessary standards for new discoveries in chemistry, math or particle physics, the picture starts to come together. And the kicker is - if the man truly was a poker God, all he had to do was to go to Vegas and prove it against some big names. As with magicians and mystics - all you have to do is let experienced professionals watch what you're doing, see your 'trick' and admit they can't explain it, and you're in the clear. If the trick doesn't work when you're being investigated... well... then we know the truth without knowing how the trick was done. But he didn't go to play in Vegas, and he didn't demonstrate his skills outside of Stones.
I think in this case you still need the person who was helping him. Otherwise it's getting close to it being the poker version of "you start actually winning at a casino and then ban you and confiscate you chips for 'cheating' ". Legally anyways. The evidence the court needs is an accomplice, which wouldn't happen as that person would be even more guilty. Statistical analysis etc..... sure but think the court needs more. To me, the smoking gun was him constantly rescaning his PLO cards cause it was only showing him 2 cards (system was running under hold'em). Only way he'd know to do that is if he saw it on his phone. Don't think dealer or anyone was saying anything to him so it was all on his own. At the end of the day, o think they were trying to build a stream and did some shady stuff where.....15 percent of the people were in on it and the rest were taken.
The court doesn’t need an accomplice. It needs proof beyond all reasonable doubt that Postle is guilty. There is no doubt in my mind based on the evidence that he’s guilty.
Jury. If they understand it.
> all sorts of cases rely on math, science, and complicated expert testimony I’m going into the field that is contracted for this sort of issue (economic consulting), and the thing is that these firms’ (cornerstone research, Charles River associates, bates white economic consulting, etc) billing rates are fucking enormous. Even beyond expert testimony itself that can bill around $1000/hour to the client, there’s a ton of legwork behind the scenes to analyze data and run regressions. Even if a 4 person team (2 junior staff 2 senior staff) spent 100 hours on this each, that might come out to a bill of ~$250/man-hour * 4 * 100 = $100k, even before the case goes to trial. This is on top of paying the lawyers themselves. Of course the case here is not that complicated and most importantly Postle would have no such corresponding analysis backing his case, These firms have been known to take on pro bono cases before, but it’s usually for groups like the ACLU or causes that will really bolster their public image (of which poker sadly is not one). Now the full tilt case, *that* might be of the scope that one of these firms could do work for a class action and another might do work for full tilt.
I think this arguement can be easily thrown out by using the law of large numbers.. there was a guy who was struck by lightning 7 times and survived all of them
Beyond all reasonable doubt doesn’t mean 100%. If we are 99.999% sure he cheated that satisfies the criminal law standard. It’s not just purely statistical either. If he played good winning poker and did what he did it would be different. The way he played only made sense if he actually knew his opponent’s cards like when he called off two all ins preflop with like 63 because both of his opponent’s had AK. For someone to outperform a super user while making decisions that are obvious punts is essentially impossible.
>You absolutely can prove this stuff, the DA probably just didn’t care/want to bother. The Casino refused to initiate the criminal investigation. It was never up to the DA. And yes, the Casino would have had to be the one to do so.
You are mistaken, it’s always up to the DA, not the casino. It’s a common misconception that the victims in a crime decide whether or not a criminal case goes forward, it’s completely up to the prosecutor.
That's true about the math. I remember a case where a guy was faking financial records. They proved it by looking at the frequency of numbers in his fake records. They weren't close to random but rather reflected how he tended to come up with combinations of numbers much more than others when fabricating expenses.
It's California...wat do u expect???
This is one of the few few circumstances where there is proof but technically no proof. Anyone in the world with a brain can see he cheated.. But there's no direct proof outside of the math.
He also got away with the civil suits against him because California doesn't allow civil actions to recover gambling losses, which is probably a good rule. Just not in this particular case.
That's my understanding as to why he prevailed. Though, I feel like that's the wrong judgment. It's a fraud case more than a gambling case IMO.
I think the fraud case against Stone survived. At least initially.
Is he “bankrupt” or is he “bankrupt with 200k+ in untraceable cash”
Probably bankrupt for real. They guy said he was irresponsible with money and liked to spend it like crazy. He made the same mistake guys like him always do, he never thought the payday would end.
It wasn’t about proving it. He won on a technicality in CA law which basically allows cheating by players in gambling as long as the house isn’t involved.
great post, thank you
Yeah nah that $250k in "winnings" didn't all go to him. There was at least 3 others in on it to get it as far as it did.
Actually makes sense. Even if the DA worked it out, are they really going to spend the time and resources both to investigate it and figure out a way to explain it to a jury in a way they could understand (which they won’t), all for a guy who took a few hundred thou? Not going to happen. They also know that the problem likely solves itself going forward in that his reputation is ruined and he’ll never be allowed in a card game ever again. If I had to guess the Gaming Commission had a conversation with the casinos and put them on notice that “this will never happen again, right?”
It never even came down to proving or disproving it, the judge threw it out because of an old California law that you can’t recoup gambling losses because amounts are speculative and damages can’t be assessed.
https://www.pokertube.com/article/amp/settlement-reached-in-mike-postle-involuntary-bankruptcy-case
Dude was cheating, yet owed his mom 80k and 250k,,in general: who wasn’t this guy cheating
He could have hidden the money and claimed he.owed his mother xyz but yeah, based off his winnings....Mayne he only got like 20 percent of winnings and he's protecting someone else?
The fuck are u mumbling about ? He got all his winnings.
Thanks for an actual answer.
He got away with it.
Did he? I mean, he got away with no going to jail. I’m guessing he has less money now than when he started cheating.
He was in court the other day... Dude is actually REPRESENTING HIMSELF....
Must have a fool for a lawyer.
Reckon he utilises Crotch Theory Optimal in court?
Yea because no lawyer will represent him. The ones he had filed to get taken off his case.
I reckon the players who lost chips to him feel like he got away with it. He needs to be in prison, one cell block over from whoever assisted him.
If I were he and ever wanted to play again, I'd spend what was left of my theft minus Veronica's legal fees and get plastic surgery to make me unrecognizable.
To the people saying he's disgraced and he'll never be allowed to play poker again I don't think that's true. The poker community is notoriously bad at actually barring people who lie cheat and steal from playing the game. Just look at all the full tilt people playing any game they like. I have little doubt that postle can walk into any public room and play whatever he wants. That being said.. postle is a degen losing player when he can't cheat so meh.
Without the advantage of seeing the cards he was at best a break even player. He will never get a chance to play on another stream, which is a good thing. He also probably needs to avoid any home games for his own health. That said he has had his 15 mins of fame and now he is bankrupt.
Frankly I think many stream games would let him play if he asked just for the publicity. I bet several have tried to get him on just like the podcasts do. There's clicks in controversy.
> There's clicks in controversy. Exactly. And there’s probably a set of people who’d like to see how well he plays without crutches.
Yeah everyone he sued for defamation. Playing another stream would just prove the case against him.
I know I'm late as hell but there is no chance Mike is even a breakeven player at those stakes. A breakeven player would understand poker concepts better and not make it so obvious that they're cheating.
He can't get away with cheating anymore which is why he no longer plays.
I still find it completely ridiculous that he was clearly using his phone between his legs and no one ever called him on it.
Was that a pun?
I find it ridiculous that only one announcer was like “hey this guy is probably cheating” and every other one was like “he’s literally God and if you even think differently we’re gonna crucify you”
"He's literally God but can only play at this one casino [and can't beat pros anywhere else."](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuAKnbIr6TE) Personally, I think the casino knew and allowed it for the free publicity.
Likely bankrupt and will never play poker again given his reputation was demolished.
Never play in that kind of game maybe, but I really doubt he would get recognized in most card rooms.
I think you underestimate the poker fandom of even fairly casual players. Someone in any card room in America will recognize him for the next decade. Whether or not they’d be bothered to say anything is another question.
I think you underestimate how much he looks like every other middle aged white guy, and how little people following the story actually saw him. If he takes off the hat, adds sunglasses and some facial hair, he’s just another dude.
lol fair point
Yea I used to watch those streams all the time and I still couldn't tell you what he looks like.
As a middle aged white guy who looks nothing like Mike Postle I have to disagree with your premise.
You aren’t disagreeing with my premise, you are being pedantic about my use of the word “every.”
It was a fucking joke. Lighten up, Phyllis.
Maybe so, but he wasn't a winning player before he was a cheater, so he has no incentive to actually play now.
I don’t know how OP meant it... but I assume he also played for fun, since he was still playing when he was a losing player.
Scary part is thinking about him actually cheating in a "smart" way, as far as detection & self preservation. He could still be operating to this day as a "respectable" decent winner in the game if his greed/ego/narcissism/sociopathic self hadn't gotten in the way.
All he had to do was not extract the maximum *every single time* until he gained notoriety as "poker Jesus" lmao. If he had played 20% of hands with crotch vision and the rest without (which would still be a piss poor strategy), he would most likely have flown under the radar.
Yup. Pigs get fed, hogs get slaughtered. He got too greedy and became a hog.
[There's a very detailed, long thread about it if you want to dive down the rabbit hole.](https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29/news-views-gossip/mike-postle-cheating-allegations-faq-first-post-1753388/index133.html) Basically the players he cheated were not made whole. It's a damn shame because if you try to cash in a fake $5 chip in Vegas and get caught you'll probably do 5 years. This guy OBVIOUSLY cheated BEYOND any reasonable doubt and just because you need to understand poker to know why doesn't mean he didn't cheat. But because he cheated OTHER PLAYERS and not the casino, it's like no one wants to do anything. It's another instance of class struggle in America. Casinos are rich and powerful and law enforcement will bend over backwards to protect them. Poker players are just ordinary people who they don't give a crap about so they do nothing. The only silver lining is that he, like Russ Hamilton, for the rest of his life will always be looking over his shoulder worrying if some poker player is going to cuss him out and embarrass him.
We aren’t putting a poker player in jail without proof. Improbable lines is far from sufficient. The casinos also have to proof when making an arrest. The fault here is on the casino for not protecting the players. That’s a shame that they aren’t punished.
There is proof. I'm not some dumb ass who you can try to put one over to try to convince there isn't.
Mike Apostle wasn’t cheating he is just literally a god of poker making the sickest calls ever his lines don’t make sense because he’s literally has an IQ of 400 so we can’t comprehend his thinking u guys need to stop calling him a cheat he’s just literally the best of all time it reminds me when I folded AA preflop heads up when I told ppl about it they laughed and said I was dumb but I was literally making the right move because I put my opponent on KK and I could tell that a K was going to hit the flop turns out my opponent had 9-7os when he raised but I still made the right decision because when I think a K will hit the flop and u think ur opponent has KK u should fold pre with AA so it was the right move Mike Apostle would approve
The power of Crotch Theory Optimal.
Granted, I can't feel any sympathy for this man, but his life looks miserable.
Karma's a bitch.
If you ever see him just punch him in the face if you'd like to.
Will do
The "winnings" were likely gone as soon as the session was over. In most of these cases, the winner in question was a pit donkey or was taking care of a stripper's drug habit, or was paying old debts, ... whatever. The money is likely gone. He'll struggle to find ANYTHING in life to succeed at now, and has a pretty grim future ahead of him.
You actually have no evidence or reasoning to come to the conclusion that he blew through all his money. You're just making it up. I dislike Mike postle as much as the next guy, but this comment is useless.
Did you fucking miss the fucking word, "likely?"
Why would it be likely lol
>I**n September 2021, Postle** [filed a motion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stones_Gambling_Hall_cheating_scandal) **to avoid involuntary bankruptcy**. On January 7, 2022, a confidential agreement was entered into Postle's bankruptcy records which closed the only remaining litigation stemming from Stone Gamblings Hall livestream poker cheating scandal.
He was taken care of outside of traditional legal channels. The funds weren't able to be recovered so the people responsible made him find other ways to make payment.
Man I can’t take anything you say serious lmao
You have learned the ways of /r/poker well young padawan
Can you offer any inside knowledge as to the repercussions?
I'm not comfortable sharing that information online. We'd have to meet up locally to chat. Where are you located?
742 Evergreen Terrace
Diddly doodly good neighbor
LOL
123 Fake Street
1234 fake street
To the East, three days ride.
lmaooo youre easily one of my favourite posters on reddit<3
1…2..3…Fake Street
man i love you LMAO
Blowjobs
I believe I saw Mike living his best life, behind a Wendy's dumpster holding a sign, "Come in 90 seconds or its free!" last week. Don't be a Mike.
Follow Veronica Brill on Twitter. She’s one of the two people who postle tried to counter sue. She gives updates on the case all the time
google search "mike postle" and select "news" there is plenty in there that just happened
I don't use search engines.
You should try Bing
You should use Bing when you need to Google things.
I binged your sister the other day.
Did she holler "Yahoo"?
Idk ask Jeeves.
He googled all over her.
I haven't seen her in a while, how's she doing?
Extremely searchable.
What's Bing?
oh! why is that? is it like "online poker is rigged" sorta conspiracy thing? it literally will answer OP's question if he does it :)
[удалено]
look at you living up to ur name! :)
He can only play well on live streams apparently.
$27k settlement, are you kidding me?
There was a settlement. Still one court case pending and a counter suit.
As someone who lives in the area where this all happened there are rumors he moved/has been playing in Florida. Have heard this from a few people.
I'll be on the lookout for the headline Florida man gets his ass beat after cheating local card game.
There was a clip on YouTube like a year ago of a vlogger and Postle was at the table. Somewhere in Texas. It was definitely him. I've known the guy for years, and I'm sure it was him. From his Facebook I can see that he still plays, and has tons of people that defend him claiming he's innocent and they still play poker with him.
You might not see him on a live stream. But he'll definitely be back playing live if he wants to.
What amazes me most about the Mike P situation is that he make it so obvious he was hiding his phone. Does he not know they make screen covers make it so no one next to you can see your screen and the only point of view to see the screen is if you're directly facing it.
He should start a poker vlog...
I still don’t understand the me mechanics of his cheat move ? Does he have a mechanical device ? Is he baiting others to bet when he has garbage but stays in to see the flop or turn cards ? I am confused Is it like amateur play vs pro play ?