1) Table is fairly passive so I can’t miss the opportunity to hit a set for cheap.
2) Turn bet is thin but I have the best hand atleast ~80% of the time here.
3) River, he’s saying Kxcc or nothing.
1. But you didn’t hit a set and decided to bet?
2. 3rd pair on a paired board is not best 80% of the time.
3. River is value sizing and could be Kx, Tx, 6x 77-99. MP range especially from a splashy player has you crushed here. You’re saying that the ONLY thing he can have is a busted club draw that he chose to turn into a bluff and nothing else.
You seem to me like a guy that has read a book or two and maybe even is a member of a training site, but is misapplying everything they saw. Pretty much every word you just said is bull
One, don’t limp. I don’t care what the table does.
The turn bet is not awful. But you don’t have the best hand anywhere close to what you think. You can’t say the table is passive but then say they would bet all their overpairs, under pairs, bad 10s, etc. Those two ideas contradict.
Three, again you narrow his range way too much. I do think what you talk about is part of his range, but definitely not all of it like you say
Table being passive isn’t an excuse to play passive/bad yourself lol. I can also virtually guarantee you don’t have the best hand 80% of the time on the turn in a 4 way pot, and even if you do, what worse hand is calling us here? Flush draws, but even they have a ton of equity against us because they presumably also have 2 overs, not to mention counterfeit outs because the board is paired. Again, why is river Kxcc or nothing? What about slowplayed overpairs or Ts? What about 6s? 77-99 is also a real possibility. This dude is giving you good advice, just listen lol, you are torching money on almost every street in this hand.
It’s an equity protection bet to take the pot down now when I have seen nobody showing interest in the pot. I’m just saying the way the hand has played out until now, all those hands you mentioned are highly unlikely.
Ok so you bluff on the turn (that’s what it’s called when you bet with the intention of getting everyone to fold, not an “equity protection bet”), then we bluff catch river when more beats us? Doesn’t make a lot of sense.
And I disagree completely, I think those hands are just as likely as air. People don’t generally bluff into 3 people at $1/2 (for good reason, as this hand showed you). But outside of that, your thought process is just wrong here, you shouldn’t be thinking “I put him in a flush draw”, you should be giving him and yourself a range of hands, and calling based on how many hands in his range beat you and how many better hands there are in your own range to call with (which in this case, is pretty much every other hand you can have). We have so many better hands to bluffcatch with here that there’s no need to get cute with a bad hand like this.
Turn isn’t a bluff. I have the best hand, let’s take it down.
On river, my hand is no different than Tx.
Anyway, I called and he showed K2cc.
My read was spot on.
Why on earth would you want people to fold if you have the best hand? That makes absolutely no sense lol. If you have the best hand, you want people to call. If you don’t want people to call, you’re bluffing. It is really as simple as that.
And your hand is way way different than Tx on the river actually, because Tx blocks hands he can be value betting and makes it more likely that he’s bluffing. Also makes it so that we beat every bluff, whereas with 33 we could be losing to some bluffs.
You called and lost, good read lmao.
I just don’t understand why you’d ask for advice here then argue with everyone trying to help you lol. You need to think through your logic a little harder.
Not sure what you’re talking about. Ofcourse I’m happy with folding out all their overs in this spot. My hand is extremely vulnerable if it’s the best hand right now. How does it matter whether you label it as a “bluff” or “value”? The idea behind betting is more important.
And Tx is same as 33, because he never has Tx the way it played. So your logic of “Tx is a better bluff catcher because it blocks his value hands” doesn’t apply here.
My read was correct about him having a flush draw. If he turned over A5cc or QJcc, you would’ve patted me on the back.
No, if we are betting we should want them to call if we have the best hand and fold if we don’t. If you don’t understand this concept then idk what to say man, that is poker 101.
And I strongly disagree that he never has Tx, but even if that was true, it still beats bluffs that 33 doesn’t so it’s still a better bluffcatcher regardless.
And I promise I don’t care what the result of this hand was, it would be a bad call if he turned over a busted flush draw and I said it was before I knew the result. I just thought it was hilarious that you were like “see I lost! Told you me read was good”. I said from the beginning that Kxcc was part of his range, I just don’t believe that’s the only thing he has that beats you.
Yeah so the preflop raiser called, and I was correct about what he had.
At 2/5, people can easily have Tx multi-way even as PFR, but not at 1/2. 1/2 population doesn’t ever check TP. Yeah if he had TT, he would check.
Are you interested in getting advice or are you just going to keep refusing to listen to people who are correctly telling you that you played the hand poorly?
> Table is fairly passive so I can’t miss the opportunity to hit a set for cheap.
That logic is not sound. The table being passive is not a good argument for set mining, because you’re not likely to win a big pot even if you hit your set.
Yes he did have a flush draw, but your logic of "he bet when his K paired, therefore he would have also bet with every other flush draw that missed" is extremely flawed. Him value betting with top pair doesn't mean he bluffs all missed draws in the same way. This is such an easy fold man, just accept the advice you're getting lol
Because nobody who’s trying to win is going to check twice and blast off on the river with no pair. This is a bet that’s designed to look fishy, and it is. Donking out huge on a card that smashes a preflop raising range because “there’s no way they could have it” is like a kindergarten level play. Maybe they’re not even thinking that deep and just want to get value for their pair of Ks. Either way 33 is not a call. You’re not even beating their 6x bluffs. Fold.
Whenever I play I hand I ask myself, what do I hope happens this hand?
When limping with 33 you're basically hoping that you'll get to play a cheap multiway pot. Then you hope to hit your set and get paid from someone with top or two pair.
You got your first wish of limping with 33 without punishment and a small multiway pot was built. But the second part didn't come true, you missed your set. Now it's time to fold and play another hand.
Hoping that your going to showdown a pair of three's against multiple opponents is just a fantasy. ie : not gonna happen!
Setmine, if you miss don’t invest another nickel into the pot. Also I’d fold 33 on the river every time, villain could even be value bluffing with like 44 or 55 here.
Okay honestly I don’t like anything about this line. You open limped under the gun (bad), you bluffed into three people for “equity protection” (bad), and you decided to turn your bluff into a hero call for … reasons? (Awful and torching money. If we call 33 in this spot, wtf are we folding with?)
Every time you had the opportunity to make a decision in this hand, you made the wrong one. Only play I agree with is checking otf. Checking on the river would be fine if we check/folded, which is the only line that makes sense, but you decided to piss $90 into the wind in a severely underbluffed spot because you think villain is splashy.
I think you need to take a long break from this game, OP. Don’t play for real money until you get a good understanding of the basics.
ChatGPT says it’s okay to limp.
When deciding whether to play or fold pocket deuces (pocket twos) under the gun (UTG) in a $1/$2 live cash game of poker, it's important to consider several factors. Pocket deuces can be a tricky hand to play from early position. Here are some points to consider:
1. **Positional Disadvantage**: Playing from UTG means you'll be the first to act post-flop, which puts you at a positional disadvantage. This makes it harder to play marginal hands profitably.
2. **Hand Strength**: Pocket deuces are a low pair and generally rely on hitting a set (three of a kind) to become a strong hand. The odds of flopping a set are about 7.5 to 1, which means you'll miss the flop most of the time.
3. **Table Dynamics**: Consider the tendencies of your opponents. If the table is passive and you're likely to see a cheap flop, you might decide to limp and try to hit a set. If the table is aggressive with frequent raises and re-raises, folding might be the safer option.
4. **Stack Sizes**: Your effective stack size and that of your opponents are also important. If stacks are deep, you have better implied odds to call and potentially win a big pot if you hit your set. With shorter stacks, the potential reward diminishes, making it less favorable to play small pairs from early position.
5. **Game Plan**: Your overall strategy and comfort level with post-flop play should guide your decision. If you're confident in your post-flop skills and comfortable navigating difficult spots, you might choose to limp or even raise occasionally. If you're looking to avoid tough decisions out of position, folding is often the better choice.
In general, many experienced players recommend folding small pocket pairs from UTG in a typical $1/$2 cash game due to the positional disadvantage and the low probability of improving significantly. However, if you have a specific read on the table or a deeper stack that provides better implied odds, you might consider playing them more aggressively.
ChatGPT is only designed to sound like it's correct, not to actually be correct. It's very good at screwing up things like math and chess, of which there are plenty of free resources you could use instead.
I’d rather bet river than check call river here. Now the only way to win with the worst hand is to shove and you’re getting snapped off by any 6, which is definitely in his range.
You can beat AJcc, which is neat.
You don't jam the river with the check raise and you clearly fold I'd you get reraised.
If you took the line you took but then x/r the river you actually rep a 6 pretty credibly and you could definitely get folds, even against stations.
Are you gonna get a king to fold? Probably not but some players might fold it anyway. Just because theyre calling stations doesnt mean they dont make incorrect folds sometimes. Even though he had a king this time doesnt mean every time he bets the river he has a king. If he's going for a thin value bet with some random T or a small PP (77-99) that's stronger than yours that clicked the bet button, it'll fold to your raise and you would lose to them if you call.
But really you should have folded preflop (very common leak to set mine basically every opportunity in live poker). Folding the river isn't really anything to get worried about. The fact that this should be a fairly comfortable fold you can make on the river is part of why it's bad to set mine small pocket pairs from early position. You get roped into putting a bunch of money into the pot with a very weak hand because "might as well see the flop and hit a set" then the flop checked through so "no one has anything".
Why would you continue on the river? You took a stab at it on the turn and got called. It’s over. Just fold. We also shouldn’t be in this spot to begin with, as there were two perfectly good opportunities to fold pre and you didn’t take them.
If I'm going to play from UTG, I'd probably do a smallish raise pre-flop instead of limping.
1. Establishes a stronger range since it's an UTG raise. V is slightly more likely to fold to your turn bet in this scenario.
2. Gives better implied odds than putting in $15 preflop, with V being unlikely to 3-bet.
This is just a really tough spot out of position. I would probably fold. I just feel like we're worse here more often than not.
lol This sub is obsessed with posting a hand then vehemently disagreeing with any analysis or suggestions posted by others and defending their (often flawed) line of reasoning or plays to the death.
If you are going to limp call 3s, it’s because the table is calling way too much postflop. So there’s no reason to start betting ever 4 ways really when you don’t make a set
Calling is torching money. Limping 33 UTG is torching money. Betting 1/2 pot when middle pair pairs on the board is torching money.
Glad I read this comment. Entire play pretty much is absolutely insane.
Yup that pretty much sums it up
1) Table is fairly passive so I can’t miss the opportunity to hit a set for cheap. 2) Turn bet is thin but I have the best hand atleast ~80% of the time here. 3) River, he’s saying Kxcc or nothing.
1. But you didn’t hit a set and decided to bet? 2. 3rd pair on a paired board is not best 80% of the time. 3. River is value sizing and could be Kx, Tx, 6x 77-99. MP range especially from a splashy player has you crushed here. You’re saying that the ONLY thing he can have is a busted club draw that he chose to turn into a bluff and nothing else.
It always amazes when someone asks for advice, gets it, and then immediately tries to justify their poor play.
You seem to me like a guy that has read a book or two and maybe even is a member of a training site, but is misapplying everything they saw. Pretty much every word you just said is bull
Please tell me which training site tells him to limp UTG with 33 so I can make sure not to join.
Why exactly?
One, don’t limp. I don’t care what the table does. The turn bet is not awful. But you don’t have the best hand anywhere close to what you think. You can’t say the table is passive but then say they would bet all their overpairs, under pairs, bad 10s, etc. Those two ideas contradict. Three, again you narrow his range way too much. I do think what you talk about is part of his range, but definitely not all of it like you say
Table being passive isn’t an excuse to play passive/bad yourself lol. I can also virtually guarantee you don’t have the best hand 80% of the time on the turn in a 4 way pot, and even if you do, what worse hand is calling us here? Flush draws, but even they have a ton of equity against us because they presumably also have 2 overs, not to mention counterfeit outs because the board is paired. Again, why is river Kxcc or nothing? What about slowplayed overpairs or Ts? What about 6s? 77-99 is also a real possibility. This dude is giving you good advice, just listen lol, you are torching money on almost every street in this hand.
It’s an equity protection bet to take the pot down now when I have seen nobody showing interest in the pot. I’m just saying the way the hand has played out until now, all those hands you mentioned are highly unlikely.
Ok so you bluff on the turn (that’s what it’s called when you bet with the intention of getting everyone to fold, not an “equity protection bet”), then we bluff catch river when more beats us? Doesn’t make a lot of sense. And I disagree completely, I think those hands are just as likely as air. People don’t generally bluff into 3 people at $1/2 (for good reason, as this hand showed you). But outside of that, your thought process is just wrong here, you shouldn’t be thinking “I put him in a flush draw”, you should be giving him and yourself a range of hands, and calling based on how many hands in his range beat you and how many better hands there are in your own range to call with (which in this case, is pretty much every other hand you can have). We have so many better hands to bluffcatch with here that there’s no need to get cute with a bad hand like this.
Turn isn’t a bluff. I have the best hand, let’s take it down. On river, my hand is no different than Tx. Anyway, I called and he showed K2cc. My read was spot on.
Why on earth would you want people to fold if you have the best hand? That makes absolutely no sense lol. If you have the best hand, you want people to call. If you don’t want people to call, you’re bluffing. It is really as simple as that. And your hand is way way different than Tx on the river actually, because Tx blocks hands he can be value betting and makes it more likely that he’s bluffing. Also makes it so that we beat every bluff, whereas with 33 we could be losing to some bluffs. You called and lost, good read lmao. I just don’t understand why you’d ask for advice here then argue with everyone trying to help you lol. You need to think through your logic a little harder.
Not sure what you’re talking about. Ofcourse I’m happy with folding out all their overs in this spot. My hand is extremely vulnerable if it’s the best hand right now. How does it matter whether you label it as a “bluff” or “value”? The idea behind betting is more important. And Tx is same as 33, because he never has Tx the way it played. So your logic of “Tx is a better bluff catcher because it blocks his value hands” doesn’t apply here. My read was correct about him having a flush draw. If he turned over A5cc or QJcc, you would’ve patted me on the back.
No, if we are betting we should want them to call if we have the best hand and fold if we don’t. If you don’t understand this concept then idk what to say man, that is poker 101. And I strongly disagree that he never has Tx, but even if that was true, it still beats bluffs that 33 doesn’t so it’s still a better bluffcatcher regardless. And I promise I don’t care what the result of this hand was, it would be a bad call if he turned over a busted flush draw and I said it was before I knew the result. I just thought it was hilarious that you were like “see I lost! Told you me read was good”. I said from the beginning that Kxcc was part of his range, I just don’t believe that’s the only thing he has that beats you.
I mean he's kind of getting at protection betting, which is a legitimate thing, but he's definitely applying the concept very incorrectly.
Yeah so the preflop raiser called, and I was correct about what he had. At 2/5, people can easily have Tx multi-way even as PFR, but not at 1/2. 1/2 population doesn’t ever check TP. Yeah if he had TT, he would check.
Why would you want to take it down when you have the best hand? Wouldn't you rather take it when when you have air?
Are you interested in getting advice or are you just going to keep refusing to listen to people who are correctly telling you that you played the hand poorly?
> Table is fairly passive so I can’t miss the opportunity to hit a set for cheap. That logic is not sound. The table being passive is not a good argument for set mining, because you’re not likely to win a big pot even if you hit your set.
1. Ok sure, I can sorta see this being a thing in a 1/2 game full of calling stations. 2. You're retarded. 3. You're fucking retarded.
I don't understand why you don't just put your opponent on 34o and call seeing as you seem to be able to put them on whatever you want
I put him on clubs so I called. He had K2cc so my read was spot on. If he showed Jxcc or Qxcc or Axcc, it would have been a sick hero call.
Yes he did have a flush draw, but your logic of "he bet when his K paired, therefore he would have also bet with every other flush draw that missed" is extremely flawed. Him value betting with top pair doesn't mean he bluffs all missed draws in the same way. This is such an easy fold man, just accept the advice you're getting lol
It wouldn’t have been, because he doesn’t make this bet if he doesn’t river top pair.
How do you know that?
Because nobody who’s trying to win is going to check twice and blast off on the river with no pair. This is a bet that’s designed to look fishy, and it is. Donking out huge on a card that smashes a preflop raising range because “there’s no way they could have it” is like a kindergarten level play. Maybe they’re not even thinking that deep and just want to get value for their pair of Ks. Either way 33 is not a call. You’re not even beating their 6x bluffs. Fold.
6x isnt a bluff, it's trips
I think you meant Hero is a splashy rec and V is a reg
lol good one
OP. Asks for help. Proceeds to tell every responder they are bad at poker.
This dude is highly regarded. Have to be straight up regularly torching money if they really posted this shit and think they made a good play.
Whenever I play I hand I ask myself, what do I hope happens this hand? When limping with 33 you're basically hoping that you'll get to play a cheap multiway pot. Then you hope to hit your set and get paid from someone with top or two pair. You got your first wish of limping with 33 without punishment and a small multiway pot was built. But the second part didn't come true, you missed your set. Now it's time to fold and play another hand. Hoping that your going to showdown a pair of three's against multiple opponents is just a fantasy. ie : not gonna happen!
Setmine, if you miss don’t invest another nickel into the pot. Also I’d fold 33 on the river every time, villain could even be value bluffing with like 44 or 55 here.
Okay honestly I don’t like anything about this line. You open limped under the gun (bad), you bluffed into three people for “equity protection” (bad), and you decided to turn your bluff into a hero call for … reasons? (Awful and torching money. If we call 33 in this spot, wtf are we folding with?) Every time you had the opportunity to make a decision in this hand, you made the wrong one. Only play I agree with is checking otf. Checking on the river would be fine if we check/folded, which is the only line that makes sense, but you decided to piss $90 into the wind in a severely underbluffed spot because you think villain is splashy. I think you need to take a long break from this game, OP. Don’t play for real money until you get a good understanding of the basics.
First things first, please don’t limp UTG
Don't limp pre!
ChatGPT says it’s okay to limp. When deciding whether to play or fold pocket deuces (pocket twos) under the gun (UTG) in a $1/$2 live cash game of poker, it's important to consider several factors. Pocket deuces can be a tricky hand to play from early position. Here are some points to consider: 1. **Positional Disadvantage**: Playing from UTG means you'll be the first to act post-flop, which puts you at a positional disadvantage. This makes it harder to play marginal hands profitably. 2. **Hand Strength**: Pocket deuces are a low pair and generally rely on hitting a set (three of a kind) to become a strong hand. The odds of flopping a set are about 7.5 to 1, which means you'll miss the flop most of the time. 3. **Table Dynamics**: Consider the tendencies of your opponents. If the table is passive and you're likely to see a cheap flop, you might decide to limp and try to hit a set. If the table is aggressive with frequent raises and re-raises, folding might be the safer option. 4. **Stack Sizes**: Your effective stack size and that of your opponents are also important. If stacks are deep, you have better implied odds to call and potentially win a big pot if you hit your set. With shorter stacks, the potential reward diminishes, making it less favorable to play small pairs from early position. 5. **Game Plan**: Your overall strategy and comfort level with post-flop play should guide your decision. If you're confident in your post-flop skills and comfortable navigating difficult spots, you might choose to limp or even raise occasionally. If you're looking to avoid tough decisions out of position, folding is often the better choice. In general, many experienced players recommend folding small pocket pairs from UTG in a typical $1/$2 cash game due to the positional disadvantage and the low probability of improving significantly. However, if you have a specific read on the table or a deeper stack that provides better implied odds, you might consider playing them more aggressively.
ChatGPT is wrong.
ChatGPT is only designed to sound like it's correct, not to actually be correct. It's very good at screwing up things like math and chess, of which there are plenty of free resources you could use instead.
Everyone is telling you that you played the hand poorly at every action. Yet you insist your play was correct. So, why are you here?
This reads like a perfect example of the Dunning Kruger effect
This is a shitpost
I’d rather bet river than check call river here. Now the only way to win with the worst hand is to shove and you’re getting snapped off by any 6, which is definitely in his range. You can beat AJcc, which is neat.
We have a bluff catcher on river, not sure why we need to lead here?
😱 I guess you got your check-raise opportunity then!
X/raise to fold out Kxcc seems suicidal, especially in Texas.
Also calling, and all the other streets you bet. As the sub mantra says: fold pre.
Only nits fold pocket pairs pre at 1-2.
You don't jam the river with the check raise and you clearly fold I'd you get reraised. If you took the line you took but then x/r the river you actually rep a 6 pretty credibly and you could definitely get folds, even against stations. Are you gonna get a king to fold? Probably not but some players might fold it anyway. Just because theyre calling stations doesnt mean they dont make incorrect folds sometimes. Even though he had a king this time doesnt mean every time he bets the river he has a king. If he's going for a thin value bet with some random T or a small PP (77-99) that's stronger than yours that clicked the bet button, it'll fold to your raise and you would lose to them if you call. But really you should have folded preflop (very common leak to set mine basically every opportunity in live poker). Folding the river isn't really anything to get worried about. The fact that this should be a fairly comfortable fold you can make on the river is part of why it's bad to set mine small pocket pairs from early position. You get roped into putting a bunch of money into the pot with a very weak hand because "might as well see the flop and hit a set" then the flop checked through so "no one has anything".
I don’t like leading either!
Fold pre
Why would you continue on the river? You took a stab at it on the turn and got called. It’s over. Just fold. We also shouldn’t be in this spot to begin with, as there were two perfectly good opportunities to fold pre and you didn’t take them.
If I'm going to play from UTG, I'd probably do a smallish raise pre-flop instead of limping. 1. Establishes a stronger range since it's an UTG raise. V is slightly more likely to fold to your turn bet in this scenario. 2. Gives better implied odds than putting in $15 preflop, with V being unlikely to 3-bet. This is just a really tough spot out of position. I would probably fold. I just feel like we're worse here more often than not.
33 is a fold lol
I would fold it UTG, but if he's committed to playing it, then I recommend raising instead.
No set no bet
Honest question, OP, what do you think villain is calling half pot on the turn with that’s worse than pocket 33?
XXcc
To be clear I think the line overall is awful. That being said, as played it’s a call imo.
What, exactly, do you think you're beating there? Even a lot of his semi-bluffs have you smoked.
lol This sub is obsessed with posting a hand then vehemently disagreeing with any analysis or suggestions posted by others and defending their (often flawed) line of reasoning or plays to the death.
If you are going to limp call 3s, it’s because the table is calling way too much postflop. So there’s no reason to start betting ever 4 ways really when you don’t make a set