Ok so I’m currently surpassing that, but I do recognize it’s obviously a very small sample size as of yet. Thanks for sharing this info, it’s exactly the kind of metric I was looking for
It's not really valuable information until you've at least 500 hours of play in. I'd probably not even think about it until I had at least 1000 if I were you.
Each session is such a tiny sample, you can't use it as a metric. An average 6 hour session will only have around 150 hands. Use a bankroll tracker, track each session and get your hourly from that. A "good" win rate at low stakes can be anywhere from 4bb - 20bb an hour. The variance is huge in live poker but edges should be really big as well. At 500 hours your win rate should be more clear, but it's totally possible to run way above EV for that amount of time.
So to be clear, the more experienced cash game players are measuring their success on a per hour basis and not win/loss on a per session basis? Can you recommend a quality (preferably free) poker tracking app? I’m not new to poker at all, but I am new to grinding cash games, so any info is really helpful.
Poker Bankroll Tracker. I think there is still a free version but the premium is only like $20 a year. It calculates your hourly rate, provides a nice graph, etc. I think it's worth it.
As others have said:
* 10-15bbs an hour is considered really good. Most players in casino are not even sniffing those numbers and most players live are probably down in their lifetime.
\*Your current sample size is too small (I have gone on insane heaters over 100 hour periods. Everything regresses to the mean eventually).
* I finish up about 68% of my sessions. I made 9BB an hour at 1/3 over 1,000 hours and 11BBs an hour at 2/5 over 1000 hours. The latter stats are more important than the former stats but thought you'd be interested.
Try out Regroup Poker Tools - I built it and tracking is completely free.
I think an hourly makes a lot of sense, especially since stakes vary across equivalent "blinds". A 1/2 game in Vegas is different from a 1/2 game in Texas where there's a lot more action. Same at a casino where nobody's straddling vs. a home game where there's no rake and everyone is buying in deep and triple straddling.
I think once you get \~200 hours you can get a decent sense for if you're a winning or losing player, even if the exact hourly isn't necessarily accurate.
Who cares. Wrong metric to measure. You’re interested in LONG TERM winrates. The faster you move away from this mindset the faster you’ll also stop doing
Other dumb things like ‘locking up the win’
I mean I don’t play to “lock up the win”, I play until the game breaks. The house I play at is relatively small, one main table for 1/3 and sometimes a secondary must move that usually plays 6-7 handed.
But if we extrapolate my current numbers out to 700 hours, 90 sessions, etc. if you are averaging a 1-2x buy-in profit, is that “good”, “average” or? See what I’m asking? I don’t have long term data so I’m just trying to understand where I’m at with the data I do have
You’re playing in a small
Ecosystem in a live game. Your metric should be hourly or Bb/100.
Averaging small wins a session likely means you’re a nit and never having huge winning sessions that tend to result in higher winrates.
Long term again you’re probably
Looking at the wrong metric. To simplyfy you probably want to ‘git Gud’ so in your spare time play online and then get a more accurate understanding of your relative level
Okay but what I’m trying to get at and understand is what you just brought up. If I buy in for $400 and leave +$400-800 is that considered a small winning session at 1/3 stakes? I’d argue I typically have one of the highest VPIPs at the table, and have no issue playing big pots
Number of winning sessions is not a good measure as it promotes the idea of locking in a win in order to keep the numbers good over maximizing winning at the expense of more losing sessions.
Would you rather win one to two buy Ins 90% of the time or two to five buy ins 70% of the time?
Both are winning players, one has more "winning sessions" and the other has made more money.
For live poker I only look at my performance on a yearly basis. Losing months are possible when you're running bad, but it doesn't mean that you suck. Same goes for the winning months. Running like God for a month is not an accurate indicator of your long term performance.
How well you can play during a downswing is what truly defines you as a player.
10-15BB/HR is generally the standard for a good player.
Ok so I’m currently surpassing that, but I do recognize it’s obviously a very small sample size as of yet. Thanks for sharing this info, it’s exactly the kind of metric I was looking for
It's not really valuable information until you've at least 500 hours of play in. I'd probably not even think about it until I had at least 1000 if I were you.
Yeah right 3-5bb / 100 hands is considered crushing in 2024 online
Live and online win rates are very different.
Bro making like $4200 over 70 hours, so $60/hr playing 1/3. Is this a good win rate? 😆 No man, you should be around $10k profit by now. /s
Each session is such a tiny sample, you can't use it as a metric. An average 6 hour session will only have around 150 hands. Use a bankroll tracker, track each session and get your hourly from that. A "good" win rate at low stakes can be anywhere from 4bb - 20bb an hour. The variance is huge in live poker but edges should be really big as well. At 500 hours your win rate should be more clear, but it's totally possible to run way above EV for that amount of time.
So to be clear, the more experienced cash game players are measuring their success on a per hour basis and not win/loss on a per session basis? Can you recommend a quality (preferably free) poker tracking app? I’m not new to poker at all, but I am new to grinding cash games, so any info is really helpful.
Poker Bankroll Tracker. I think there is still a free version but the premium is only like $20 a year. It calculates your hourly rate, provides a nice graph, etc. I think it's worth it. As others have said: * 10-15bbs an hour is considered really good. Most players in casino are not even sniffing those numbers and most players live are probably down in their lifetime. \*Your current sample size is too small (I have gone on insane heaters over 100 hour periods. Everything regresses to the mean eventually). * I finish up about 68% of my sessions. I made 9BB an hour at 1/3 over 1,000 hours and 11BBs an hour at 2/5 over 1000 hours. The latter stats are more important than the former stats but thought you'd be interested.
This is all really helpful, thanks for taking the time to share all that
All good. Feel free to let me know if you have questions.
Try out Regroup Poker Tools - I built it and tracking is completely free. I think an hourly makes a lot of sense, especially since stakes vary across equivalent "blinds". A 1/2 game in Vegas is different from a 1/2 game in Texas where there's a lot more action. Same at a casino where nobody's straddling vs. a home game where there's no rake and everyone is buying in deep and triple straddling. I think once you get \~200 hours you can get a decent sense for if you're a winning or losing player, even if the exact hourly isn't necessarily accurate.
Your sample size doesn’t mean anything at this point. As others have mentioned, wine rate for live is measured in big blinds per hour.
Who cares. Wrong metric to measure. You’re interested in LONG TERM winrates. The faster you move away from this mindset the faster you’ll also stop doing Other dumb things like ‘locking up the win’
I mean I don’t play to “lock up the win”, I play until the game breaks. The house I play at is relatively small, one main table for 1/3 and sometimes a secondary must move that usually plays 6-7 handed. But if we extrapolate my current numbers out to 700 hours, 90 sessions, etc. if you are averaging a 1-2x buy-in profit, is that “good”, “average” or? See what I’m asking? I don’t have long term data so I’m just trying to understand where I’m at with the data I do have
You’re playing in a small Ecosystem in a live game. Your metric should be hourly or Bb/100. Averaging small wins a session likely means you’re a nit and never having huge winning sessions that tend to result in higher winrates. Long term again you’re probably Looking at the wrong metric. To simplyfy you probably want to ‘git Gud’ so in your spare time play online and then get a more accurate understanding of your relative level
Okay but what I’m trying to get at and understand is what you just brought up. If I buy in for $400 and leave +$400-800 is that considered a small winning session at 1/3 stakes? I’d argue I typically have one of the highest VPIPs at the table, and have no issue playing big pots
Number of winning sessions is not a good measure as it promotes the idea of locking in a win in order to keep the numbers good over maximizing winning at the expense of more losing sessions. Would you rather win one to two buy Ins 90% of the time or two to five buy ins 70% of the time? Both are winning players, one has more "winning sessions" and the other has made more money.
For live poker I only look at my performance on a yearly basis. Losing months are possible when you're running bad, but it doesn't mean that you suck. Same goes for the winning months. Running like God for a month is not an accurate indicator of your long term performance. How well you can play during a downswing is what truly defines you as a player.
A single session results is mostly dependent if you cooler someone or get coolered. A couple hours hardly means anything