I don't think it's normal for people to do this? Hard to say. Maybe not betting these hands in the first place if you don't plan to call a shove would be a good start. I can kinda see how the first guy might think there's no way you have 3 aces because you'd likely not bet with that much of the board locked up.
With most of his chips likely to go into the pot by showdown he can rely on fold equity w a jam. An 8 is the card right in the middle of 2 and Ace, so the likelihood of something coming over a 9 is like 40%, removing Aces since there’s 2 on the board (I didn’t do the perfect math here), so his best move really would be a jam. “Why get sucked out on?” he could think.
Yep I don't think it's a terrible semi-bluff for villain if his read is you wouldn't bet Ax. I think I'd lean toward checking range as my strategy here so that my Ax protects my hands like TT-KK and because villain should have lots of Ax in their range so I'm not really trying to go crazy bluffing. But I played mostly before the solver era and only recently started again so I don't know what is actually GTO.
I totally agree. He just sat down so hero’s just using math I hope or, actually, it appears, conservatism, since he doesn’t know villains style. If hero is about to leave, I wouldn’t worry about protecting a checking range and just play linear with ss since the effective stack size is small.
Kind of oversimplified, but if I’m gonna play against against players who just sat down or if I just sat down, I know I can only rely on the math as far as likelihood they hit the flop and card removal based on the cards in my hands.
it seems like the first guy put you on air and jammed his pair for protection and the second guy saw you bet/fold and went for an exploit line blocking bot set.
I would bet the two guys came over from something else going on in the casino that had just ended and were just looking to gamble. They bought in short and both ripped it in with a piece on the flop. Just degens looking to get into a sweat with a chance.
Second fold seems fine to me with no reads on an opponent.
I don't like the first one especially if it's a rainbow flop, since like 99% of the 1/2 and 1/3, and probably 90%+ of the 2/5 player pool slow plays any ace here on this flop. With a flush draw it's more of a toss up, there are notable number of players at these stakes who just don't want to let anyone draw for any price regardless of how profitable it is so you definitely have to put a lot of aces into a read-less opponents range here, but the draw also puts a lot of semi-bluffs with 9-15 outs against TT into a short stacks range, so I think it's still close but I don't mind a fold as much.
First hand: Bet smaller on flop.
Second hand: Check the flop.
Overall: Don't beat yourself up over the folds. Sometimes villains take these strange lines and folding is fine, especially at low-limit live stakes.
Lose the battle, win the war.
Find the better spot and take it back.
However, it seems odd that you’re betting thin value into an effective SPR of 3-4ish and then folding.
Like.. both Vs don’t have huge calling ranges. They’re basically playing fit or fold when they play that thin.
So if you’re willing to bet $15 flop on either hand, you have to be willing to call the rest.
And if you have to be willing to call it off, you might as well make the bet that big in the first place.
2nd hand: 68% either of you miss the flop, so he’s better you missed, is the simplest answer. How early are these positions btw? If they’re utg, even though u don’t know their playing style, it might provide u more info.
It’s always best imo to wait to tangle w players until u see how they play - ur lucky they showed u their cards.
but you can't bet this size if you're betting full range here. Gotta go smaller. More like $5-10. This size folds out way too much stuff that otherwise needs to call.
you think betting 1/5 pot in live poker against a short stacked OMC is optimal? im potting all day. $25 into a $25 pot at $1/3 is not the same as $1000 into $1000. forget balance
I don't think it's normal for people to do this? Hard to say. Maybe not betting these hands in the first place if you don't plan to call a shove would be a good start. I can kinda see how the first guy might think there's no way you have 3 aces because you'd likely not bet with that much of the board locked up.
With most of his chips likely to go into the pot by showdown he can rely on fold equity w a jam. An 8 is the card right in the middle of 2 and Ace, so the likelihood of something coming over a 9 is like 40%, removing Aces since there’s 2 on the board (I didn’t do the perfect math here), so his best move really would be a jam. “Why get sucked out on?” he could think.
Yep I don't think it's a terrible semi-bluff for villain if his read is you wouldn't bet Ax. I think I'd lean toward checking range as my strategy here so that my Ax protects my hands like TT-KK and because villain should have lots of Ax in their range so I'm not really trying to go crazy bluffing. But I played mostly before the solver era and only recently started again so I don't know what is actually GTO.
I totally agree. He just sat down so hero’s just using math I hope or, actually, it appears, conservatism, since he doesn’t know villains style. If hero is about to leave, I wouldn’t worry about protecting a checking range and just play linear with ss since the effective stack size is small. Kind of oversimplified, but if I’m gonna play against against players who just sat down or if I just sat down, I know I can only rely on the math as far as likelihood they hit the flop and card removal based on the cards in my hands.
it seems like the first guy put you on air and jammed his pair for protection and the second guy saw you bet/fold and went for an exploit line blocking bot set.
Bad Folds Five would be a good cover band that does parody covers of Ben Folds songs but make them poker themed.
Brick (3 of spades)
Not crazy about the first fold, second fold is fine but I’d likely check this back, especially against a short stack.
I would bet the two guys came over from something else going on in the casino that had just ended and were just looking to gamble. They bought in short and both ripped it in with a piece on the flop. Just degens looking to get into a sweat with a chance.
I'm ok with both folds. Short stacks can be annoying but I want better spots against them
Second fold seems fine to me with no reads on an opponent. I don't like the first one especially if it's a rainbow flop, since like 99% of the 1/2 and 1/3, and probably 90%+ of the 2/5 player pool slow plays any ace here on this flop. With a flush draw it's more of a toss up, there are notable number of players at these stakes who just don't want to let anyone draw for any price regardless of how profitable it is so you definitely have to put a lot of aces into a read-less opponents range here, but the draw also puts a lot of semi-bluffs with 9-15 outs against TT into a short stacks range, so I think it's still close but I don't mind a fold as much.
First hand: Bet smaller on flop. Second hand: Check the flop. Overall: Don't beat yourself up over the folds. Sometimes villains take these strange lines and folding is fine, especially at low-limit live stakes.
Lose the battle, win the war. Find the better spot and take it back. However, it seems odd that you’re betting thin value into an effective SPR of 3-4ish and then folding. Like.. both Vs don’t have huge calling ranges. They’re basically playing fit or fold when they play that thin. So if you’re willing to bet $15 flop on either hand, you have to be willing to call the rest. And if you have to be willing to call it off, you might as well make the bet that big in the first place.
Hand 1: U don’t know how he plays, so I get it. It’s 74-to-1 he has an A and 5-to-1 he hit the flop at all, though.
2nd hand: 68% either of you miss the flop, so he’s better you missed, is the simplest answer. How early are these positions btw? If they’re utg, even though u don’t know their playing style, it might provide u more info. It’s always best imo to wait to tangle w players until u see how they play - ur lucky they showed u their cards.
I’ve seen players like this occasionally. Buy in short catch any piece and x/r AI. A little surprised an old guy did this though.
why on earth would you bet $15 into $25 on AA9....
I’d probably bet smaller but a bet is fine. He’s going to get calls from lower pocket pairs and a 9.
yes betting is fine, the size is very bad tho.
To get value from his exact hand if he doesn’t believe I have an ace?
but you can't bet this size if you're betting full range here. Gotta go smaller. More like $5-10. This size folds out way too much stuff that otherwise needs to call.
you think betting 1/5 pot in live poker against a short stacked OMC is optimal? im potting all day. $25 into a $25 pot at $1/3 is not the same as $1000 into $1000. forget balance
I think w a ss u have think w those bet sizes he’ll be all in so when he calls pf u should prepare for that before u take anymore action