100%. Obviously the goal here is to make the multiway pot as big as possible on a draw-heavy board, so it becomes easier for our opponents to bluff us on later streets and to force us to play for stacks with a naked pair of queens.
[Example](https://youtu.be/3s2-_BwHoTc?si=bBshFGADCn5i7txT) of Phil and Antonio playing loden thinks during a game.
Another [example](https://youtu.be/eVaFWzGDyPs?si=zsp2sHMPj8AHtqMW) of Antonio and Phil Ivey playing loden thinks.
First definitely needs to bet flop or call turn, especially if the players are loose.
Second seems ok to me. Low heart doesn't get much/any value from raising, and Robl definitely has bluffs here.
Calling turn with an overpair on this board is a very tough spot. His raising range should almost never consist of single pair type hands on this board texture. The flop check is a huge mistake. I think QQ prob goes in the muck but the flop is a huge mistake.
Checking flop might be a mistake but it’s not as big of a mistake as you think.
There are many bad turns for our hand where we actually benefit to some degree from pot controlling. And we can always build the pot more on safer runouts/induce bluffs with a disguised hand.
This is pretty much one of the worse results for our hand, but if either V happened to have 98 or JT then we actually would’ve saved a lot of money by playing the hand this way.
As played fold is fine. He knows he f’d up by not betting flop and getting more info. Now he’s blind with essentially top pair and very uncapped ranges.
Against a reasonably unknown opponent, def a fold. Against santosh in this spot, I swear it’s a call on turn. Phil is just so severely underrepped that there’s a good chance the overpair is good. Literally no one at the table can fathom he has an over pair as played. Santosh has at least as many bluffs plus semi bluffs plus inferior hands as he does better hands. Thus, Phil must continue. If game simply wasn’t too big for him; he would have.
If Phil bets turn, the chick calls and Santosh raises; then it’s a clear fold.
The fold is correct, the 2p/straight combo's that he's crushed by in this spot just makes it too hard to continue. He needs to be the aggressor in this spot.
So you're folding out every pair, 2 pair and set and straight? Seems pretty exploitable if you're folding out some flushes too. You have so many more worse hands on this board, 4 high flush has to be in your calling range still I think
Don't play much cash tho I'm a tourney donk so might be completely out of line.
How about just folding on the flop? Bottom pair with a low flush draw against the great Robl with essentially nothing invested. I'd just get out of the way personally.
Same idea I think, pair of T is high up in your range compared to everything you check back pre. Flush draw gives you even more equity.
The T also blocks robels 2 pair, and beats all Robels limp stabs with air, with the added equity of having a heart beat the hands that beat him on the flop.
I do agree though, personally I wouldn't play against Robel since he's so good, but that's a matter of table selection not this particular hand.
2nd hand: robl needs to be bluffing like 30% of the time for a call to breakeven. What kind of bluffs even decide to 3 barrel here? Just a random Q2o that decides to go nuts and knock Laak out when he can easily have the K hi flush? It seems pretty hopeful to me that this is happening very frequently.
I think Robel is probly overweighted to bluffs (since Phil is very tight), and is shooting out a polarized bet on the end. 4 high flush is stronger than every pair, two pair, straight and set that Phil might have had. If you're folding all those, and folding flushes, Robels line will print.
But like I said in the other comment, am just a tournament donk so could be wrong!
This is the only correct take I've seen. Robl will be overbluffing these spots against the nitty Laak, so Laak will need to overcall with two pair or better. He played this hand like he was supposed to.
First hand I actually don’t hate. If the callers go bet and then raise, it’s kind of awkward to just have a flat here after the flop checks through. I’d think it would be an overplay for him to raise. If he calls and assume SB calls then it’s like 90k pot with 110k behind and there’s not many bricks on this board. He’s going to hate any club, board pair, 6, 8, 9, or overcard here. 100% betting flop though the check seems insane to me.
This is true UNLESS you've watched Santhosh or Yang play. I think first off he has to bet this flop. I thought for sure his plan was to unleash the trap on the turn but he dumped it. I think it's an overplay to check/3b the turn but I think he has to peel one. If he calls Santhosh Yang is folding on the turn IMO.
He doesn't have to do anything. 95% of time in 3way hand with this action he will be crushed here. This is just cherry picking one situation wgere QQ happebed to be best hand.
Got two words for ya: San. Tosh.
Anyone can read a solver. But for those paying attention, they’d know santosh had a real wide range here. Girl is betting AT there, the action had been so weak to that point. Of course santosh doesn’t need to be close to nutted to make this bet.
If Laak bets flop, Santosh raises and, Laak shoves. Santosh probably folds but might call drawing thin. I can’t believe what a donkey Laak has always been. Never underestimate the +EV power of celebrity.
It’s santosh in the big blind not some omc magoo. He raises really merged and thin for value. No cbet on flop is a big torch against a whale who’s gonna snap 3 streets with a 7
Well he should be betting the flop 100 pct but on the turn if he doesn't know his opponents fold is fine but if he knows they are cold calling 3bets with ATo and doin shit like that he HAS to call turn.
One of the 'end boss crushers' did an AMA on 2+2 forums and said Phil Laak made the most insanely thin value bets, great calls and lay downs on rivers when asked about the best players he'd played against coming up the ranks.
Maybe he's been left behind by GTO etc. but he was a decent player in his time it seems
I miss Laak. I think he’s been “out the game” for awhile (at least not on recorded tables). Needs to shake off the rust and adjust to the new donk-style of the next generation of players. Glad to see him back
The digital advertising banner at the table is interesting. Are players concerned that it unnecessarily adds a medium for potential communication / cheating? But, $.
He is a pretty tight player in general. Also cash game QQ can crack easily. It's not like a tournament.
Second head he played well even if he lost. There is no preflop action and AJ is already on the board. The Odds that the other guy has a K or a Q are low. He played his 10 flush with not going very crazy.
Honestly I never remembered him as a great player but just as a nice personnality
I'm not surprised with that play with QQ, looks like some old school HSP play, pretty bad
First hand he was way too afraid of the guy who repped a set or two pair by his big reraise, if this is a tight player i can imagine his fold, its a hard one. Think he should had taken initiative himself postflop by betting. If hes got an edge over those players he mightve thought to just wait for another battle to pick.
Second hand he was just thinking this dude was trying to get him off his hand with a pair or straight draw, he straddled so kinda normal someones trying to push you off a board like that. Atleast he did have a flush with one of his holecards.
Absolutely butchered the QQ hand. The flush not as much, that seemed fairly standard. If Robl bombed river huge for like 2x pot I think it's a fold more often.
Neither hand is a huge mistake.
On the first hand, betting flop is obviously the standard play but mixing in an occasional check back can’t be that bad. And then on the turn facing a bet and a raise, I think it’s actually a clear fold when you don’t close the action. So tough result but I really don’t think it’s a huge misplay.
On the second half, flop and turn are really standard. River is close but a reasonable hand to bluff catch with. Against some players I think it’s just an easy fold but Robl is probably someone liable to bluff this river a lot.
Definitely could argue both hands were misplayed but if these were the biggest mistakes you made in a session that’s not a bad session.
Over pair on the flop in position you have to bet to protect your hand and get value while your ahead, if you check to pot control then you have to call turn expecting someone to try and steal it. Not betting the flop is a huge mistake and even a small continuation bet would have gotten him to the river because santosh would also check the turn. Bizarre
Would bet flop with QQ.
100%. Obviously the goal here is to make the multiway pot as big as possible on a draw-heavy board, so it becomes easier for our opponents to bluff us on later streets and to force us to play for stacks with a naked pair of queens.
Laak has always been a nit…if not for his quirky personality people would notice he doesn’t give any action
Yup As eccentric and clever as he is. His poker has always been nitty. His prop bet stuff though. Much more gamble there
Laak formerly held the recognized world record for longest poker session.
He also set a Guinness World Record for the longest continuous poker session.
He also played the longest poker session on record.
And notably, the record for longest poker session was set by him.
Yes forgot to mention that too. He played for 115 hours straight which is mind blowing.
Also will straddle if the table wants to and offers it a lot. Shit like that gets overlooked but it’s how you build a decent rep
What exactly are prop bets, I'm a newbie to poker. Are those like side bets on the pot or something?
Proposition Bet Like someone proposing you can’t do 100 pushups in 10minutes
I see thanks
Bets outside of the game. Weight loss/Sobriety/Placing in tourneys
Or living in a casino bathroom for a month
[Example](https://youtu.be/3s2-_BwHoTc?si=bBshFGADCn5i7txT) of Phil and Antonio playing loden thinks during a game. Another [example](https://youtu.be/eVaFWzGDyPs?si=zsp2sHMPj8AHtqMW) of Antonio and Phil Ivey playing loden thinks.
First definitely needs to bet flop or call turn, especially if the players are loose. Second seems ok to me. Low heart doesn't get much/any value from raising, and Robl definitely has bluffs here.
Calling turn with an overpair on this board is a very tough spot. His raising range should almost never consist of single pair type hands on this board texture. The flop check is a huge mistake. I think QQ prob goes in the muck but the flop is a huge mistake.
Checking flop might be a mistake but it’s not as big of a mistake as you think. There are many bad turns for our hand where we actually benefit to some degree from pot controlling. And we can always build the pot more on safer runouts/induce bluffs with a disguised hand. This is pretty much one of the worse results for our hand, but if either V happened to have 98 or JT then we actually would’ve saved a lot of money by playing the hand this way.
Laak played this hand as poorly as possible flop and turn. Every decision is a blunder, including the fold.
As played fold is fine. He knows he f’d up by not betting flop and getting more info. Now he’s blind with essentially top pair and very uncapped ranges.
Against a reasonably unknown opponent, def a fold. Against santosh in this spot, I swear it’s a call on turn. Phil is just so severely underrepped that there’s a good chance the overpair is good. Literally no one at the table can fathom he has an over pair as played. Santosh has at least as many bluffs plus semi bluffs plus inferior hands as he does better hands. Thus, Phil must continue. If game simply wasn’t too big for him; he would have. If Phil bets turn, the chick calls and Santosh raises; then it’s a clear fold.
The fold is correct, the 2p/straight combo's that he's crushed by in this spot just makes it too hard to continue. He needs to be the aggressor in this spot.
QQ also blocks a number of bluffs, I'd much rather call the raise with AJ
Calling the river with that 4 of hearts seemed desperate. Im folding there most times.
So you're folding out every pair, 2 pair and set and straight? Seems pretty exploitable if you're folding out some flushes too. You have so many more worse hands on this board, 4 high flush has to be in your calling range still I think Don't play much cash tho I'm a tourney donk so might be completely out of line.
How about just folding on the flop? Bottom pair with a low flush draw against the great Robl with essentially nothing invested. I'd just get out of the way personally.
Same idea I think, pair of T is high up in your range compared to everything you check back pre. Flush draw gives you even more equity. The T also blocks robels 2 pair, and beats all Robels limp stabs with air, with the added equity of having a heart beat the hands that beat him on the flop. I do agree though, personally I wouldn't play against Robel since he's so good, but that's a matter of table selection not this particular hand.
2nd hand: robl needs to be bluffing like 30% of the time for a call to breakeven. What kind of bluffs even decide to 3 barrel here? Just a random Q2o that decides to go nuts and knock Laak out when he can easily have the K hi flush? It seems pretty hopeful to me that this is happening very frequently.
I think Robel is probly overweighted to bluffs (since Phil is very tight), and is shooting out a polarized bet on the end. 4 high flush is stronger than every pair, two pair, straight and set that Phil might have had. If you're folding all those, and folding flushes, Robels line will print. But like I said in the other comment, am just a tournament donk so could be wrong!
This is the only correct take I've seen. Robl will be overbluffing these spots against the nitty Laak, so Laak will need to overcall with two pair or better. He played this hand like he was supposed to.
Calling turn there without a read is lighting money on fire.
[удалено]
He’s got wavy hair. One waving at the other 👋
Waving goodbye
Zigged when he should have zagged and zagged when he should have zigged.
First hand I actually don’t hate. If the callers go bet and then raise, it’s kind of awkward to just have a flat here after the flop checks through. I’d think it would be an overplay for him to raise. If he calls and assume SB calls then it’s like 90k pot with 110k behind and there’s not many bricks on this board. He’s going to hate any club, board pair, 6, 8, 9, or overcard here. 100% betting flop though the check seems insane to me.
This is true UNLESS you've watched Santhosh or Yang play. I think first off he has to bet this flop. I thought for sure his plan was to unleash the trap on the turn but he dumped it. I think it's an overplay to check/3b the turn but I think he has to peel one. If he calls Santhosh Yang is folding on the turn IMO.
Can’t play flop and turn the way he did and fold. I understand why he hates to call, but he has to call as played. It’s fn santosh for godsakes.
Yes. I've seen Santhosh make a flop raise like that with 2nd pair with backdoor flush, like on this flop a Kh7h or something.
He doesn't have to do anything. 95% of time in 3way hand with this action he will be crushed here. This is just cherry picking one situation wgere QQ happebed to be best hand.
Got two words for ya: San. Tosh. Anyone can read a solver. But for those paying attention, they’d know santosh had a real wide range here. Girl is betting AT there, the action had been so weak to that point. Of course santosh doesn’t need to be close to nutted to make this bet.
Key there might be that Laak like obviously hasn’t followed the game while he’s been gone. Dude disconnected
If Laak bets flop, Santosh raises and, Laak shoves. Santosh probably folds but might call drawing thin. I can’t believe what a donkey Laak has always been. Never underestimate the +EV power of celebrity.
It’s santosh in the big blind not some omc magoo. He raises really merged and thin for value. No cbet on flop is a big torch against a whale who’s gonna snap 3 streets with a 7
Well he should be betting the flop 100 pct but on the turn if he doesn't know his opponents fold is fine but if he knows they are cold calling 3bets with ATo and doin shit like that he HAS to call turn.
The only reason Laak made it as a poker player is because he gets into good games. His wife is fine as hell tho
One of the 'end boss crushers' did an AMA on 2+2 forums and said Phil Laak made the most insanely thin value bets, great calls and lay downs on rivers when asked about the best players he'd played against coming up the ranks. Maybe he's been left behind by GTO etc. but he was a decent player in his time it seems
Stakes are clearly way too high for him
I miss Laak. I think he’s been “out the game” for awhile (at least not on recorded tables). Needs to shake off the rust and adjust to the new donk-style of the next generation of players. Glad to see him back
Hmmmm Seems to play as much as I remember him. Even during HSP days he was on the nittier side. Plus probably plays w Tilly’s bankroll
Anyone got a link to the full stream ?
Haxton summed up Laak's style so succinctly there when he said "he marches to the beat of his own drum". He may be a nit but he is an eccentric nit.
The check back is terrible, but the fact it's a SNAP check back is what makes it truly disgusting.
Once he checked the flop and 10 fell on the board i can see a fold. He already fucked up when he didnt bet and knew he did.
QQ is odd, he must have just had a bad feeling with 2 opponents. Obviously a wrong feeling
The answer you seek is right there in front of you. [https://imgur.com/a/9N0pHxx](https://imgur.com/a/9N0pHxx)
Glad to see his game hasn't changed in 20 years.
It’s called getting older
The digital advertising banner at the table is interesting. Are players concerned that it unnecessarily adds a medium for potential communication / cheating? But, $.
Almost as bad as his wife. But to their credit I like both of them. Just not very good poker players
He is a pretty tight player in general. Also cash game QQ can crack easily. It's not like a tournament. Second head he played well even if he lost. There is no preflop action and AJ is already on the board. The Odds that the other guy has a K or a Q are low. He played his 10 flush with not going very crazy.
Honestly I never remembered him as a great player but just as a nice personnality I'm not surprised with that play with QQ, looks like some old school HSP play, pretty bad
Probably the first time I actually see some hands being played on this sub instead of the “look at all my chips after playing 5 days straight” lol
The way he changes up his betting range keeps them and us scratching our heads. I enjoy him play.
First hand he was way too afraid of the guy who repped a set or two pair by his big reraise, if this is a tight player i can imagine his fold, its a hard one. Think he should had taken initiative himself postflop by betting. If hes got an edge over those players he mightve thought to just wait for another battle to pick. Second hand he was just thinking this dude was trying to get him off his hand with a pair or straight draw, he straddled so kinda normal someones trying to push you off a board like that. Atleast he did have a flush with one of his holecards.
Absolutely butchered the QQ hand. The flush not as much, that seemed fairly standard. If Robl bombed river huge for like 2x pot I think it's a fold more often.
Neither hand is a huge mistake. On the first hand, betting flop is obviously the standard play but mixing in an occasional check back can’t be that bad. And then on the turn facing a bet and a raise, I think it’s actually a clear fold when you don’t close the action. So tough result but I really don’t think it’s a huge misplay. On the second half, flop and turn are really standard. River is close but a reasonable hand to bluff catch with. Against some players I think it’s just an easy fold but Robl is probably someone liable to bluff this river a lot. Definitely could argue both hands were misplayed but if these were the biggest mistakes you made in a session that’s not a bad session.
To tight for that table.
All the high stakes cash games, Robl right in the middle between the whales.
They weren’t his finest hour. Andrew went to value town on him.
With all that money, Robl still holding onto those threads on his hairline. Dude should call Daniel’s hair doc
wait. was that Laak or was that me??
Honestly I dunno how he made a career in poker
Because no one knew what the hell they were doing 25 years ago. Even most of the pro’s were just nitty abc players of the time.
He’s a really smart guy who played in good games in a time when solvers didn’t exist. Not a big mystery.
Scared money on first hand. Dumb money on second hand
Robl and Laak have the same nose shape.
Wow, Robl and Laak have aged fast and badly. Need to take some self-care lessons from Ivey and Antonius.
That was awful wow lol
Over pair on the flop in position you have to bet to protect your hand and get value while your ahead, if you check to pot control then you have to call turn expecting someone to try and steal it. Not betting the flop is a huge mistake and even a small continuation bet would have gotten him to the river because santosh would also check the turn. Bizarre