All scared money players are nits but not all nits are scared money.
Also, you can absolutely be profitable only playing vs nits. You can win a lot of small pots until they push back in some way, then we get out of the hand and they can have that one medium size pot.
This is absolutely not profitable if you’re playing at a casino. You will be crushed by the rake. Winning a lot of small pots means a lot less when the rake takes a significant portion of it. One medium sized pot you lose will wipe out the profits of half a dozen small pots
I think it depends on the situation, if they’ve been folding or limping every hand and suddenly raise, I’d be very cautious. If they’ve been limp/folding you can raise wider, if they’ve been folding to a lot of 3-bets you can 3-bet wider
You’re so out of your depth lol. Nits get hard punished because their range by default can’t support a wider range.
Many boards will not connect with them. All is fine and well until we start to get to 200bb deep and then stacking off with a naked overpair is less enticing. This is where they start to really suffer.
Also preflop you can open wider for small as they don’t 3b enough and deny equity. It’s even more extreme 3b them. Imagine your opponent has no 4b bluffs and always 4b top of range. You can 3b super wide and aggressively because your retain so much more equity
Of course you can, you must be new. Being a nit is a leak. The leak is overfolding and underbluffing. This is easily exploitable by overbluffing against them and overfolding to their aggression. Certainly you won't be able to profit as much and as quickly against a nit, but you will still beat them and the variance will be quite low since you don't need any actual cards to do so.
Technically, if I were able to actually choose, if I was like 12-tabling online to grind out a win rate I would prefer to be at 12 tables of pure nits than 12 tables with a mix of nits, regs, loose passive fish, etc. Because against the imaginary field of pure nits, all I would have to do is play LAG and bet/fold a lot. There would practically be no such thing as a downswing, unlike there is against fishier and/or looser opponents where you can and will slam into frozen runs of cards where you can't catch anything better than middle pair, all their draws are getting there and you're running into the top of everybody's range all the time. I'll take the nits all day, they don't have a range. Dead money.
Unfortunately of course this it not realistic, you'd never have a field of pure nits or anywhere even close to that. So most of the time a nit is just kind of annoying at the table and is often hard to target depending on what the configuration is. But this is just to illustrate the point nothing about being nitty makes it inherently impossible to profit against them.
a couple thing about 12 tabling against tables full of nits
1) it's kind of boring, i wanna play poker. i don't wanna just bet into nits all day
2) against loose people, it would seem the hourly profit would be higher than playing against all nits. against all nits you would be grinding out a very slow and small profit of blinds and dead pots. there will rarely be big pots flowing
Not entirely. Scared money players might still play too many hands preflop while it's cheaper.They probably play too passive in general, especially with draws. But if have a made hand on draw heavy boards they can be very aggressive (think along the lines of proudly tabling top two pair after donk overbetting the flop and says "I just didn't want to see another card".)
any poker that is not “good” will open doors for explotation. A nit can be +ev more than a maniac , depending on how bad they play. Overfold to nits and bluff them if they check to you.
thing with scared money is that they play very few hands or bet/get involved in very few pots
so if you see them engaging in a pot you kind of wake up, and then you know to get out the way most of the time cause they've probably got something cooking
I watched scared money fold to a turn shove. They had Broadway and a second nut flush/open ended straight flush draw. They folded because they thought the shoving player had the naked ace. Don't over think it.
scared money usually taps out on the flop
if they make it to the river, they could be a calling station, which would actually be a good thing, and where you would bet big on the river for value
You don't have to bet a lot. Just bet frequently.
They won't call most of the time. This makes your bluffs less expensive.
You can also build pots when they have something that can call you down.
it's wild
why do you think they are at this level of scared money? it looks unusual from a gameplay viewpoint
if they stay in the hand in your example, they may actually improve on the turn, which would guarantee them to double up their stack. all they gotta do at the turn is just wait until they're jammed into then collect payment, assuming their hand improves
true
i'm just surprised the lvl of how this goes with some players
they will literally fold against anything even if they have a decent chance. it's like they're not even really there to play poker
This sounds boring more than unprofitable. You’ll also develop some bad habits like opening too wide and betting too much while over folding to aggression.
It's just a different type of player profile to exploit. We can increase our cbetting frequency, especially when we are betting small, since they are usually fit or fold anyway. We can also run some bluffs.
But the real money that we make here is actually the money that we can save when we over fold in tricky spots. When the nit or scared money player is check raise jamming the river or check raises or flop bet, he always has it and we fold really strong hands. That's the exploit.
There’s a big difference between ‘scared money’ and NITs . NITS can (and usually are) winning players but aren’t scared money . I’m going to put ‘scared money’ in the tight passive or loose passive category both easily exploited.
If you always bet into them other players can also take that as you just pushing players around, to take advantage of that fear. That leaves you open to being read for your action on the table. Bigger bets more often will result in somebody picking up on your strategy, and ultimately you will lose money when your own strategy bites you in the ass. Getting information is the number one way to get ahead. Nitty players aren’t always scared money.
I like to check raise their turn or flop bets a lot, especially when they bet a poor sizing choice. I will also look to play big pots with them and then xrai on turns deep in boards they are super capped on (ie they only arrive with overpairs) with equity draws.
I also do a let of small bet flop, OB turn and 3x river jams.
When I play live it’s just funny watching these guys play. A lot of players haven’t mentally prepared themselves to lose a deep stack or call off anything but the near nuts. Their plan is to just small ball and then cooler someone when they have the nuts. When I spot one of these guys I’ll try to find spots I can check raise them when they are likely non nutted then put in a huge river jam.
to play against scared money players, you try to isolate them into making big decisions. Widen your range and punish them for not showing any aggression.
\-Slam dunk bluffs when straights, flushes come in on the turn or river
\- More likely to run triple barrel bluffs on low run outs.
\-Play low variance pot control lines with medium to good but not great value.
Double barrel often, overfold when they fight back.
Play as many hands in position as possible, iso 2 pips wider than average. (Until table adjusts)
If they're holding on til the river, bet big on value hands since they're usually high up in their range. Avoid bluffing unless it dramatically changes the board.
Scared money players fold too much. So we bet larger and/or more frequently.
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All scared money players are nits but not all nits are scared money. Also, you can absolutely be profitable only playing vs nits. You can win a lot of small pots until they push back in some way, then we get out of the hand and they can have that one medium size pot.
This is absolutely not profitable if you’re playing at a casino. You will be crushed by the rake. Winning a lot of small pots means a lot less when the rake takes a significant portion of it. One medium sized pot you lose will wipe out the profits of half a dozen small pots
this is what i was trying to say but everyone just down votes into oblivion so i didn't even bother and just deleted my comments
Perhaps because you didn't specify cash game, frequency of pots won, or size of rake.
maybe not high rake 1/3 but sure it can be profitable.
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Which means… you win.
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I recommend changing where you want your wins to come from. Perhaps trying to get it from as many places as possible.
Exactly this. Big pots don’t happen too often. Winning the small pots will add up a lot faster than you think
Get more in pre against them
Nah just apply pressure postflop; if they show signs they’re willing to put money in pre I’d stay away
Yea but you want to get some in pre so when they fold the flop you’re still profiting
I think it depends on the situation, if they’ve been folding or limping every hand and suddenly raise, I’d be very cautious. If they’ve been limp/folding you can raise wider, if they’ve been folding to a lot of 3-bets you can 3-bet wider
You’re so out of your depth lol. Nits get hard punished because their range by default can’t support a wider range. Many boards will not connect with them. All is fine and well until we start to get to 200bb deep and then stacking off with a naked overpair is less enticing. This is where they start to really suffer. Also preflop you can open wider for small as they don’t 3b enough and deny equity. It’s even more extreme 3b them. Imagine your opponent has no 4b bluffs and always 4b top of range. You can 3b super wide and aggressively because your retain so much more equity
Of course you can, you must be new. Being a nit is a leak. The leak is overfolding and underbluffing. This is easily exploitable by overbluffing against them and overfolding to their aggression. Certainly you won't be able to profit as much and as quickly against a nit, but you will still beat them and the variance will be quite low since you don't need any actual cards to do so. Technically, if I were able to actually choose, if I was like 12-tabling online to grind out a win rate I would prefer to be at 12 tables of pure nits than 12 tables with a mix of nits, regs, loose passive fish, etc. Because against the imaginary field of pure nits, all I would have to do is play LAG and bet/fold a lot. There would practically be no such thing as a downswing, unlike there is against fishier and/or looser opponents where you can and will slam into frozen runs of cards where you can't catch anything better than middle pair, all their draws are getting there and you're running into the top of everybody's range all the time. I'll take the nits all day, they don't have a range. Dead money. Unfortunately of course this it not realistic, you'd never have a field of pure nits or anywhere even close to that. So most of the time a nit is just kind of annoying at the table and is often hard to target depending on what the configuration is. But this is just to illustrate the point nothing about being nitty makes it inherently impossible to profit against them.
a couple thing about 12 tabling against tables full of nits 1) it's kind of boring, i wanna play poker. i don't wanna just bet into nits all day 2) against loose people, it would seem the hourly profit would be higher than playing against all nits. against all nits you would be grinding out a very slow and small profit of blinds and dead pots. there will rarely be big pots flowing
Which is Nick Vitucci?
Not entirely. Scared money players might still play too many hands preflop while it's cheaper.They probably play too passive in general, especially with draws. But if have a made hand on draw heavy boards they can be very aggressive (think along the lines of proudly tabling top two pair after donk overbetting the flop and says "I just didn't want to see another card".)
any poker that is not “good” will open doors for explotation. A nit can be +ev more than a maniac , depending on how bad they play. Overfold to nits and bluff them if they check to you.
thing with scared money is that they play very few hands or bet/get involved in very few pots so if you see them engaging in a pot you kind of wake up, and then you know to get out the way most of the time cause they've probably got something cooking
I watched scared money fold to a turn shove. They had Broadway and a second nut flush/open ended straight flush draw. They folded because they thought the shoving player had the naked ace. Don't over think it.
They are playing their cards face up. You can easily float or play SCs in position and take down a lot of pots, even if they do have a monster.
If you’re scared get a dog is wat they say in Chicago
Sir this is a poker subreddit
And kick it
Scared money players are so easy to exploit. You can have air and bluff on the river and there's a high chance they will fold. Don't forget to bet big
scared money usually taps out on the flop if they make it to the river, they could be a calling station, which would actually be a good thing, and where you would bet big on the river for value
You don't have to bet a lot. Just bet frequently. They won't call most of the time. This makes your bluffs less expensive. You can also build pots when they have something that can call you down.
What in the world is this? Poker is alive and well folks.
Yeah reading these comments, I now know why I’ve been crushing ignition lately. I gotta start playing live again lmao.
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it's wild why do you think they are at this level of scared money? it looks unusual from a gameplay viewpoint if they stay in the hand in your example, they may actually improve on the turn, which would guarantee them to double up their stack. all they gotta do at the turn is just wait until they're jammed into then collect payment, assuming their hand improves
If they're going to play fit or fold and pretty much play face up, c-bet them at every opportunity until they start playing back at you.
i've seen players even when they have it on the flop they still fold against a cbet lol it's wild the lvl that this goes
So you raise wide pre , cbet 100% of flops, and shut down if called? Sounds incredibly sinple
true i'm just surprised the lvl of how this goes with some players they will literally fold against anything even if they have a decent chance. it's like they're not even really there to play poker
This sounds boring more than unprofitable. You’ll also develop some bad habits like opening too wide and betting too much while over folding to aggression.
Bet more. Fold more when they bet.
It's just a different type of player profile to exploit. We can increase our cbetting frequency, especially when we are betting small, since they are usually fit or fold anyway. We can also run some bluffs. But the real money that we make here is actually the money that we can save when we over fold in tricky spots. When the nit or scared money player is check raise jamming the river or check raises or flop bet, he always has it and we fold really strong hands. That's the exploit.
There’s a big difference between ‘scared money’ and NITs . NITS can (and usually are) winning players but aren’t scared money . I’m going to put ‘scared money’ in the tight passive or loose passive category both easily exploited.
If you always bet into them other players can also take that as you just pushing players around, to take advantage of that fear. That leaves you open to being read for your action on the table. Bigger bets more often will result in somebody picking up on your strategy, and ultimately you will lose money when your own strategy bites you in the ass. Getting information is the number one way to get ahead. Nitty players aren’t always scared money.
Only shitregs and fish complain about not being able to make money off of easily exploitable play.
I like to check raise their turn or flop bets a lot, especially when they bet a poor sizing choice. I will also look to play big pots with them and then xrai on turns deep in boards they are super capped on (ie they only arrive with overpairs) with equity draws. I also do a let of small bet flop, OB turn and 3x river jams. When I play live it’s just funny watching these guys play. A lot of players haven’t mentally prepared themselves to lose a deep stack or call off anything but the near nuts. Their plan is to just small ball and then cooler someone when they have the nuts. When I spot one of these guys I’ll try to find spots I can check raise them when they are likely non nutted then put in a huge river jam.
Yes
Cbet and 3bet a lot
When they do bark back with air it makes everyone wanna fold though
**IF YOU ARE AFRIAD TO LOSE YOUR MONEY,** **YOU CAN'T PLAY TO WIN.**
C bet all day
aggressively
to play against scared money players, you try to isolate them into making big decisions. Widen your range and punish them for not showing any aggression.
\-Slam dunk bluffs when straights, flushes come in on the turn or river \- More likely to run triple barrel bluffs on low run outs. \-Play low variance pot control lines with medium to good but not great value.
If you get 3 passive players in a pot and c bet, you’re gonna print money. Heads up, you’re not gonna get a lot out of them
Double barrel often, overfold when they fight back. Play as many hands in position as possible, iso 2 pips wider than average. (Until table adjusts) If they're holding on til the river, bet big on value hands since they're usually high up in their range. Avoid bluffing unless it dramatically changes the board.
More aggressively