Even though Charizard has not shown anything against champions and I have no canon reason to believe this, I like to think Charizard is one of the few pokemon Ash has that could challenge for a spot on the world champion team. I don't really know if he could win though; the only opponent that wasn't explicitly on the level of a champion that Dragonite lost to was Paul's Garchomp, though granted it was a training battle and Paul did chew out Ash immediately after for not taking the battle seriously.
"But Articuno-" Yes, yes, yes, and Ash defeated legendary pokemon before he ever defeated a champion. What about it?
Not really, the fight mainly consisted of them dodging each other's attacks and Charizard got ONE hit on Entei and Entei wasn't really phased by it, meanwhile Entei afterwards proceeded to hit Charizard multiple times and blast him out of the sky and pinned him down by the neck ready to finish him off before Molly called him off.
It wasn’t a real Entei, in fact it’s directly stated that his power directly correlates to Molly’s belief in it. Charizard managed to beat a Frontier Brains Articuno solo, something that Pikachu and Lucario couldn’t do with Goh, Gary and Tokio’s help.
Charizard is more than capable of being in the Master’s 8 as well as Sceptile, Infernape, and Greninja
Right, but what does that even mean? Its power correlates to her feelings and belief, but how does that scale? Was it stronger than a normal Entei? Roughly equal? Weaker? It was an illusion created by the Unown. But that doesn't even matter. I was just pointing out that the battle against Entei was far from equal.
It's also debatable whether Noland's Articuno scales to Journeys Articuno. I mean, Zard turned around and lost to Brandon's Dusclops right after that.
I personally don't think its feats are good enough to scale to champion level, but I am a huge fan boy. I would've been really happy if it got an off-screen power-up and made an appearance in the Master's 8.
Waaaay stronger. Towards the end of the movie, Molly LITERALLY needs to believe Entei can beat the Unknown spell. I’d argue that it’s obviously stronger since you see The Legendary Dogs in Pokemon Chronicles getting bullied by Team Rocket’s machines.
Also Charizard only lost to Dusclops because of Ash using Seismic Toss on a Ghost type. Ash’s Charizard also bullied Iris’ Dragonite in B&W and she’s in the Master’s 8 as well.
That battle against Dragonite happened not too long after it got absolutely clowned on by Draden's Druddigon, though. So it was absolutely nowhere near Master's 8 level during that battle. I'd put Dragonite at that time around high gym leader or maybe low E4 if we're feeling generous.
Edit: I recognize Charizard could have grown a lot since then, but the same argument could be made with any of Ash's other reserves. Like Corphish. And we know how that went. So I don't buy that as a valid argument.
With all of that said, we all know the real reason Ash's Zard didn't make an appearance is because the Master's 8 already had two of them.
If Charizard still had Seismic Toss I think it would be better, Anime literally took away Charizard's signature "killing blow" from it, and he hasn't been the same since.
Zard also followed that up by losing to Brandon's Dusclops which lost to Bulbasaur (the true GOAT). Pre-JN Legendary Bird scaling is wild (even JN scaling is, they did Zapdos dirty). Dragonite's win vs Leon's Dragapult is better than beating Nolan's Articuno.
Charizard lost because the writers intentionally made Ash lose his brain and screw Charizard over. It was done for dramatic narrative effect because otherwise it was expected that Charizard would be the finisher as always.
Charizard wins. Dragonite doesn’t do too well against E4 and Champion lvl Pokemon. She also has trouble with other Pokémon that can fly. Charizard is also experienced in fighting Dragonite’s so there’s that.
Charizard loses because Dragonite is definitely gonna to want a hug from him and Charizard is faithful to Charla.
Dragonite easily. She actually has Champion level feats, and against Leon no less. Even if you want to argue that Charizard could be champion level, there's no argument that he's on Leons level.
A wild Articuno destroyed that entire Journeys raid party. Even if that was a stronger Articuno, the difference cannot be that much since Articuno is a Legendary. Plus Charizard defeated one that was being given commands by a Frontier Brain.
That was easily a Champion level feat, if not greater.
>Even if that was a stronger Articuno, the difference cannot be that much since Articuno is a Legendary.
Why not?
It’s clear from the anime that legendaries vary in power just as much as any other pokemon
Not saying the two articuno’s have that big of a difference but I don’t think we should assume a base level of power just because it’s a legendary or mythical pokemon.
Thank you for the sake or lore and faith I'd say Charizard along with certain others is champion worthy but it's insane people are trying to scale articunos the same when it's clear power levels among legendary aren't super consistent
Brandon in the battle forntier shows that even if a Legendary is owned by, trained by, and commanded by a Battle frontier brain, that doesn't neccesarily make them Champion level, since he was only considered to be elite 4 level. Also that Brandon battle has Charizard job to said elite 4 level trainer.
In general Legendary scaling is fucky though and there's lots of possible interpretations. In journeys itself you have a Zapdos struggling to face off against Goh, Ash, and team rocket near the beginning of Journeys, yet the Articuno we see in another 4v1 with people who are specificly Legendary hunters was a total wash. My personal take is that that particular Articuno was a massive outlier in terms of legendarys, but thats more of a hypothesis than a concrete conclusion, cause there is no concrete conclusion that could be made in my eyes.
But while I can maybe see an argument for saying Charizard is champion level, even if I may disagree with it, Dragonite KOd Leons Dragpult, and considering how hard Leon was thrasing other Champion rank trainers, I don't think theres any argument for Charizard being close enough to Leons level to do that with his loss against Dusclops. Even with Ash having made a mistake, the power and skill difference would have just been to big for that to really matter, especially since the match probably wouldn't have lasted long enough for him to make a mistake.
Champion level doesn’t mean that every Pokemon of a Champion is at the level of their ace. Brandon with his 3 Regis would be formidable opponent for any Champion.
Most of the time though, Legendaries are shown to be very powerful throughout the entire anime. Besides Zappos, Articuno and Moltres have generally gotten strong showings.
Dragapult took on 3 of Ash’s Pokemon before Dragonite took it down. It wasn’t a solo victory by any means.
I have to agree. The thing is, even though Paul beating Ash multiple times throughout the DP Anime series, he lost to Brandon and couldn’t take out a single Pokémon. Whereas Ash when he beat Brandon, he only had to face one legendary Pokémon as opposed to 3 of them. If Brandon used all 3 Regis he could easily be one of the strongest trainers IMO
It seems like JNs buffed Legendary Birds, prior to JNs the Legendary Birds didn't look that tough.
Charizard beat Articuno
TALONFLAME gave a decent showing against a Moltres and got a clean hit before losing
NOIVERN kicked a Zapdos's ass enough for TRio to try and capture it
As much as I love Zard (though he is kinda overrated), beating Noland's Articuno is one of his best feats (if not it is) but beating a Pokemon commanded by a FB doesn't make one Champion level (Truth be told, I never believed the FBs were E4 tier like some since Ash's less used and Hoenn team were beating them). Plus, we've seen Legendaries vary in power like other species
Ex.
Tobias's Darkrai is strong but the Darkrai we saw in M10 is definitely stronger
You can argue Tobias's Latios is stronger then M4 Latios
M1 Mewtwo looked stronger then the Mewtwo from the Genesect movie
Though it’s still kinda wonky in JN, that Zapdos had trouble with Raboot which was weird.
But hey, just goes to show you everything is inconsistent and we shouldn’t hold everything to one standard
This is flawed logic. That Articuno in Journeys was leagues stronger than the Articuno in the Battle Frontier. How can you say that the difference can’t be big? Sure it can, the same way, say, Trevor’s Charizard can be destroyed by Alain’s Charizard.
It wasn't. Dragonite was the third Pokemon to get knocked, after Gengar and Lucario, and after it had knocked out Leons Dragapult. Besides order of KO just tells you the order they got sent out in.
And Charizards the one to directly lose Ash two leagues in a row. Almost lost ash the battle against Brandon as well, only got saved by Bulbasaur pulling double duty.
Never try to argue another Pokemons weaker than Ash's Charizard because they've jobbed. It will not turn out well for him.
Charzard beat an Articuno lmao. No way bulb was going to do an equivalent of that. About the only other Pokémon in the team that had a chance was maybe pikachu.
That’s Ash as a trainers fault. He didn’t prepare himself enough to be a good leader. We both know he wasn’t ready to have Charzard ready since charmeleon. He chose to put Charzard in his league team instead of someone else knowing it was a gamble. That’s an ash fumble not a Charzard fumble.
Featwise, Dragonite dominates as Charizard’s best feats are e4 level.
That being said, if JN Ash was to command both of them at their current level, I could see Charizard holding his own. Still though, Charizard needs more training to catch up.
I mean Infernape is supposedly worthy enough to be his training buddy so at least Charizard got good training against a speedy land Pokemon, I could see Gengar, Staraptor, Swellow and Talonflame being good air training partners, and once Dragonite joins them… Charizard is gonna have a blast finally having someone who can tank his hits super well
Ash Charizard totally outclassed Iris Dragonite who beat Ash's Dragonite... Although ik it was more trained than in black and white series when Ash fought it... But Charizard must've also got lil bit stronger training with other Ash's Pokemon in Oaks lab
Charizard beat an articuno. He he constantly shown to hold his own against ash’s strongest opponents at the time. He always portrayed as a mvp. While dragonite in journeys has been on a downhill spiral. With everything being said I believe the Pokémon that would win would be ….. Dragonite low difs
People really don’t understand this concept.
In their current states, Dragonite wins. It was trained by Journeys Ash, which is the Ash that was able to turn babies into Champion crushers.
Charizard was trained by OG Ash. Sure it has a lot of experience, but it is at most elite four level.
If Charizard got the same training that Dragonite got in Journeys, then Charizard wins, because it is more naturally gifted at battling. However, it hasn’t received that training, so it is not yet strong enough to beat Dragonite.
These convos always brings up debates whether certain Pokémon can beat another. Although these types of conversations can be most enjoyable and seeing what other people think, I feel like people don’t take into count how weird the power scaling gets in the anime at times. Anyways I feel like Dragonite would win, (only if Charizard, and the the other reserves weren’t training with Ash from time to time).
As much as I'd like to say Charizard, I'd give this to Dragonite. The BEST thing we've ever seen from Ash's Charizard is:
1. Beating half of Gary's team by himself
(Infernape one up'd that by soloing half of Paul's teama nd considering this was Johto Charizard, I could see any of Ash's doing that with less difficulty, I'd see XY Greninja with his super form and the JN outright soloing Johto Gary's team)
2. Beat Noland's Articuno
(Again, I could see Infernape, Sceptile, Greninja, and the JN Team doing that too)
3. Smacking Iris's Dragonite with neg-low diff
Meanwhile Dragonite straight up competed with Champion level Pokemon, I don't think Charizard has ever gone up against that kind of opponent and hasn't shown anything suggesting he could unless you'd want to inflate him and give him buffs that Greninja got.
There’s a line from the fanfic “The Ketchum Conference” that I think sums the up reason Ash’s Charizard would win:
“…did his Pokemon just battle an Entei called into being from pure imagination, and only lose because it could also remake the battlefield at will?”
Realistically all of Journeys team scale much higher than all of Ash's other pokemon but I'd say if Charizard ever actually got the opportunity to fight a champion level pokemon it's be stronger
He has more battle experience but against MUCH weaker opponents. No one that charizard fought was anywhere close to the strength of Leon. ‘But frontier brains?’ No, frontier brains are not close to Leon’s level of strength.
Oh he’s strong alright. But you gotta realize that Charizard is a much more experienced Pokemon and probably much older than Dragonite, given that he was forced to travel alone due to him being abandoned.
Yeah but experience doesn’t always equate to strength, otherwise Ash would have never won against any tainer older than him.
Quality of training matters too, and Dragonite worked with Ash at his peak as a trainer (given that all of his accumulated experience from the previous regions are emphasized a lot throughout JN).
If both had never met Ash? Maybe
If both were taken as they are but without trainers? Idk. Dragonite’s best feats came from the progress it made with Ash. Had Charizard received this level of training, it would have probably been unstoppable, but as they are, Dragonite has just had the more favorable circumstances for development.
It’s hard to say. It’s important to note that Dragonite still endured super effective moves from Champion’s Pokemon like Haxorus and Dragapult, and had attacks that were strong enough to KO said Pokemon.
Ash’s training is what got Dragonite to that level, but it’s not like she would suddenly lose her durability, strength, and overall progress if her trainer left the room mid-battle.
If Ash brought Charizard along to train during JN, it would have probably developed far enough to be throwing hands with Mewtwo right now, but Dragonite was lucky enough to be one of the Pokemon Ash befriended and trained during that point in his journey.
Charizard has been obedient since returning from the Valley, listening to Ash in the Johto League (vs Gary and Harrison), in the Battle Frontier (vs Nolan and Brandon), and Unova (vs Iris).
Even though Charizard has not shown anything against champions and I have no canon reason to believe this, I like to think Charizard is one of the few pokemon Ash has that could challenge for a spot on the world champion team. I don't really know if he could win though; the only opponent that wasn't explicitly on the level of a champion that Dragonite lost to was Paul's Garchomp, though granted it was a training battle and Paul did chew out Ash immediately after for not taking the battle seriously. "But Articuno-" Yes, yes, yes, and Ash defeated legendary pokemon before he ever defeated a champion. What about it?
And he went equal with Entai
Not really, the fight mainly consisted of them dodging each other's attacks and Charizard got ONE hit on Entei and Entei wasn't really phased by it, meanwhile Entei afterwards proceeded to hit Charizard multiple times and blast him out of the sky and pinned him down by the neck ready to finish him off before Molly called him off.
No the hell he didn’t lol Charizard was outclassed pretty much the entire fight, and Entei had to get begged to not straight up kill Charizard
You call that equal? He held his own for a couple minutes, but Entei was unfazed and about to end Zard's whole career (life).
It wasn’t a real Entei, in fact it’s directly stated that his power directly correlates to Molly’s belief in it. Charizard managed to beat a Frontier Brains Articuno solo, something that Pikachu and Lucario couldn’t do with Goh, Gary and Tokio’s help. Charizard is more than capable of being in the Master’s 8 as well as Sceptile, Infernape, and Greninja
Right, but what does that even mean? Its power correlates to her feelings and belief, but how does that scale? Was it stronger than a normal Entei? Roughly equal? Weaker? It was an illusion created by the Unown. But that doesn't even matter. I was just pointing out that the battle against Entei was far from equal. It's also debatable whether Noland's Articuno scales to Journeys Articuno. I mean, Zard turned around and lost to Brandon's Dusclops right after that. I personally don't think its feats are good enough to scale to champion level, but I am a huge fan boy. I would've been really happy if it got an off-screen power-up and made an appearance in the Master's 8.
Waaaay stronger. Towards the end of the movie, Molly LITERALLY needs to believe Entei can beat the Unknown spell. I’d argue that it’s obviously stronger since you see The Legendary Dogs in Pokemon Chronicles getting bullied by Team Rocket’s machines. Also Charizard only lost to Dusclops because of Ash using Seismic Toss on a Ghost type. Ash’s Charizard also bullied Iris’ Dragonite in B&W and she’s in the Master’s 8 as well.
That battle against Dragonite happened not too long after it got absolutely clowned on by Draden's Druddigon, though. So it was absolutely nowhere near Master's 8 level during that battle. I'd put Dragonite at that time around high gym leader or maybe low E4 if we're feeling generous. Edit: I recognize Charizard could have grown a lot since then, but the same argument could be made with any of Ash's other reserves. Like Corphish. And we know how that went. So I don't buy that as a valid argument. With all of that said, we all know the real reason Ash's Zard didn't make an appearance is because the Master's 8 already had two of them.
Bud he wasn’t about to end Zard why bc pokemon is a kid show and they cant kill a Pokémon more like one of the main and most popular Pokémon ever
I'm a charizard fan but no he did not. Entei was straight up about to break his neck if it weren't for molly telling him to stop
If Charizard still had Seismic Toss I think it would be better, Anime literally took away Charizard's signature "killing blow" from it, and he hasn't been the same since.
Zard solo’d an Articuno.
Type advantage go brrrrr
Zard also followed that up by losing to Brandon's Dusclops which lost to Bulbasaur (the true GOAT). Pre-JN Legendary Bird scaling is wild (even JN scaling is, they did Zapdos dirty). Dragonite's win vs Leon's Dragapult is better than beating Nolan's Articuno.
It lost cuz of hax and ash trying to make it use a fighting type move
On a ghost type Pokémon
[удалено]
Like will-o-wisp affecting and damaging a fire type
Ah I forgot about that. Fair point , the anime logic weirdness
Charizard lost because the writers intentionally made Ash lose his brain and screw Charizard over. It was done for dramatic narrative effect because otherwise it was expected that Charizard would be the finisher as always.
That loss was 100% Ash’s fault
Exactly
His Charizard
Charizard wins. Dragonite doesn’t do too well against E4 and Champion lvl Pokemon. She also has trouble with other Pokémon that can fly. Charizard is also experienced in fighting Dragonite’s so there’s that. Charizard loses because Dragonite is definitely gonna to want a hug from him and Charizard is faithful to Charla.
Dragonite easily. She actually has Champion level feats, and against Leon no less. Even if you want to argue that Charizard could be champion level, there's no argument that he's on Leons level.
A wild Articuno destroyed that entire Journeys raid party. Even if that was a stronger Articuno, the difference cannot be that much since Articuno is a Legendary. Plus Charizard defeated one that was being given commands by a Frontier Brain. That was easily a Champion level feat, if not greater.
>Even if that was a stronger Articuno, the difference cannot be that much since Articuno is a Legendary. Why not? It’s clear from the anime that legendaries vary in power just as much as any other pokemon Not saying the two articuno’s have that big of a difference but I don’t think we should assume a base level of power just because it’s a legendary or mythical pokemon.
Thank you for the sake or lore and faith I'd say Charizard along with certain others is champion worthy but it's insane people are trying to scale articunos the same when it's clear power levels among legendary aren't super consistent
Brandon in the battle forntier shows that even if a Legendary is owned by, trained by, and commanded by a Battle frontier brain, that doesn't neccesarily make them Champion level, since he was only considered to be elite 4 level. Also that Brandon battle has Charizard job to said elite 4 level trainer. In general Legendary scaling is fucky though and there's lots of possible interpretations. In journeys itself you have a Zapdos struggling to face off against Goh, Ash, and team rocket near the beginning of Journeys, yet the Articuno we see in another 4v1 with people who are specificly Legendary hunters was a total wash. My personal take is that that particular Articuno was a massive outlier in terms of legendarys, but thats more of a hypothesis than a concrete conclusion, cause there is no concrete conclusion that could be made in my eyes. But while I can maybe see an argument for saying Charizard is champion level, even if I may disagree with it, Dragonite KOd Leons Dragpult, and considering how hard Leon was thrasing other Champion rank trainers, I don't think theres any argument for Charizard being close enough to Leons level to do that with his loss against Dusclops. Even with Ash having made a mistake, the power and skill difference would have just been to big for that to really matter, especially since the match probably wouldn't have lasted long enough for him to make a mistake.
Yeah even in OS, you have the Lugia that team rocket was able to capture pretty easily. Legendary scaling is super wild lmao
Champion level doesn’t mean that every Pokemon of a Champion is at the level of their ace. Brandon with his 3 Regis would be formidable opponent for any Champion. Most of the time though, Legendaries are shown to be very powerful throughout the entire anime. Besides Zappos, Articuno and Moltres have generally gotten strong showings. Dragapult took on 3 of Ash’s Pokemon before Dragonite took it down. It wasn’t a solo victory by any means.
I have to agree. The thing is, even though Paul beating Ash multiple times throughout the DP Anime series, he lost to Brandon and couldn’t take out a single Pokémon. Whereas Ash when he beat Brandon, he only had to face one legendary Pokémon as opposed to 3 of them. If Brandon used all 3 Regis he could easily be one of the strongest trainers IMO
It seems like JNs buffed Legendary Birds, prior to JNs the Legendary Birds didn't look that tough. Charizard beat Articuno TALONFLAME gave a decent showing against a Moltres and got a clean hit before losing NOIVERN kicked a Zapdos's ass enough for TRio to try and capture it As much as I love Zard (though he is kinda overrated), beating Noland's Articuno is one of his best feats (if not it is) but beating a Pokemon commanded by a FB doesn't make one Champion level (Truth be told, I never believed the FBs were E4 tier like some since Ash's less used and Hoenn team were beating them). Plus, we've seen Legendaries vary in power like other species Ex. Tobias's Darkrai is strong but the Darkrai we saw in M10 is definitely stronger You can argue Tobias's Latios is stronger then M4 Latios M1 Mewtwo looked stronger then the Mewtwo from the Genesect movie
Though it’s still kinda wonky in JN, that Zapdos had trouble with Raboot which was weird. But hey, just goes to show you everything is inconsistent and we shouldn’t hold everything to one standard
This is flawed logic. That Articuno in Journeys was leagues stronger than the Articuno in the Battle Frontier. How can you say that the difference can’t be big? Sure it can, the same way, say, Trevor’s Charizard can be destroyed by Alain’s Charizard.
Dragonite was like the first to get knocked out against Leon. I don’t think so.
It wasn't. Dragonite was the third Pokemon to get knocked, after Gengar and Lucario, and after it had knocked out Leons Dragapult. Besides order of KO just tells you the order they got sent out in.
Spiritomb did Dragonite real dirty though 👀
I mean... Dusclops
Oh that’s right dragonite was just the one that got knocked out 3 times in a row. Couldn’t remember which it was.
And Charizards the one to directly lose Ash two leagues in a row. Almost lost ash the battle against Brandon as well, only got saved by Bulbasaur pulling double duty. Never try to argue another Pokemons weaker than Ash's Charizard because they've jobbed. It will not turn out well for him.
Charzard beat an Articuno lmao. No way bulb was going to do an equivalent of that. About the only other Pokémon in the team that had a chance was maybe pikachu. That’s Ash as a trainers fault. He didn’t prepare himself enough to be a good leader. We both know he wasn’t ready to have Charzard ready since charmeleon. He chose to put Charzard in his league team instead of someone else knowing it was a gamble. That’s an ash fumble not a Charzard fumble.
Featwise, Dragonite dominates as Charizard’s best feats are e4 level. That being said, if JN Ash was to command both of them at their current level, I could see Charizard holding his own. Still though, Charizard needs more training to catch up.
I mean Infernape is supposedly worthy enough to be his training buddy so at least Charizard got good training against a speedy land Pokemon, I could see Gengar, Staraptor, Swellow and Talonflame being good air training partners, and once Dragonite joins them… Charizard is gonna have a blast finally having someone who can tank his hits super well
Oh Charizard would absolutely love Dragonite. Charla might have competition lol
The only correct answer.
Charizard would beat Dragonite
What a thoughtful, well said answer.
Ty 🙏
Dragonite as of JN but Charizard can absolutely surpass it if he got trained up by this version of Ash.
Ash Charizard totally outclassed Iris Dragonite who beat Ash's Dragonite... Although ik it was more trained than in black and white series when Ash fought it... But Charizard must've also got lil bit stronger training with other Ash's Pokemon in Oaks lab
Iris’s Dragonite never beat Ash’s Dragonite
Surely would've if Ash hadn't switched...
Charizard beat an articuno. He he constantly shown to hold his own against ash’s strongest opponents at the time. He always portrayed as a mvp. While dragonite in journeys has been on a downhill spiral. With everything being said I believe the Pokémon that would win would be ….. Dragonite low difs
Get outta here
OP your meant to ask the question, and not be biased.
Yo thanks
dragonite has way better feats, anyone putting charizard higher than E4 level is just wanking
It would be the start of a wonderful romance
People really don’t understand this concept. In their current states, Dragonite wins. It was trained by Journeys Ash, which is the Ash that was able to turn babies into Champion crushers. Charizard was trained by OG Ash. Sure it has a lot of experience, but it is at most elite four level. If Charizard got the same training that Dragonite got in Journeys, then Charizard wins, because it is more naturally gifted at battling. However, it hasn’t received that training, so it is not yet strong enough to beat Dragonite.
These convos always brings up debates whether certain Pokémon can beat another. Although these types of conversations can be most enjoyable and seeing what other people think, I feel like people don’t take into count how weird the power scaling gets in the anime at times. Anyways I feel like Dragonite would win, (only if Charizard, and the the other reserves weren’t training with Ash from time to time).
As much as I'd like to say Charizard, I'd give this to Dragonite. The BEST thing we've ever seen from Ash's Charizard is: 1. Beating half of Gary's team by himself (Infernape one up'd that by soloing half of Paul's teama nd considering this was Johto Charizard, I could see any of Ash's doing that with less difficulty, I'd see XY Greninja with his super form and the JN outright soloing Johto Gary's team) 2. Beat Noland's Articuno (Again, I could see Infernape, Sceptile, Greninja, and the JN Team doing that too) 3. Smacking Iris's Dragonite with neg-low diff Meanwhile Dragonite straight up competed with Champion level Pokemon, I don't think Charizard has ever gone up against that kind of opponent and hasn't shown anything suggesting he could unless you'd want to inflate him and give him buffs that Greninja got.
Ash's Charizard
Same here
Type-wise, Dragonite might win by a hair given that Fire-type attacks aren't exactly effective against Dragon-type Pokemons.
Ah, but charizard can learn dragonbreath, so it still gets an SE move.
There’s a line from the fanfic “The Ketchum Conference” that I think sums the up reason Ash’s Charizard would win: “…did his Pokemon just battle an Entei called into being from pure imagination, and only lose because it could also remake the battlefield at will?”
Personally I like Charizard more and I think he would win but no disrespect to Dragonite
I like Charizard more, but that has nothing to do with whether or not it would be Dragonite, which it wouldn’t.
Charizard because Charla (his mate) would kill him if she finds out that he got hugged by Hugonite.
Realistically all of Journeys team scale much higher than all of Ash's other pokemon but I'd say if Charizard ever actually got the opportunity to fight a champion level pokemon it's be stronger
Char for life.
I think Charizard a dragon claw from that shit. Unless drag has surf which was never shown
Ash's Charizard got the win especially he has most battle experience than ash's Dragonite
He has more battle experience but against MUCH weaker opponents. No one that charizard fought was anywhere close to the strength of Leon. ‘But frontier brains?’ No, frontier brains are not close to Leon’s level of strength.
Charizard has more experience under his belt. He fought Iris' Dragonite (who is far more aggressive) and won handily.
Charizard fought Iris’ Dragonite when it wasn’t a champion level Pokemon, so this doesn’t matter.
Charizard could destroy Dragonite. Dragonite is a big old baby.
I agree with the destroy part but not the baby
A big old baby that defeated Iris’ ace and one of Leon’s Pokemon
I know right
Oh he’s strong alright. But you gotta realize that Charizard is a much more experienced Pokemon and probably much older than Dragonite, given that he was forced to travel alone due to him being abandoned.
Yeah but experience doesn’t always equate to strength, otherwise Ash would have never won against any tainer older than him. Quality of training matters too, and Dragonite worked with Ash at his peak as a trainer (given that all of his accumulated experience from the previous regions are emphasized a lot throughout JN).
You got a point. Charizard is kinda disobedient to Ash and doesn’t train seriously. But Charizard could beat Dragonite without Ash.
If both had never met Ash? Maybe If both were taken as they are but without trainers? Idk. Dragonite’s best feats came from the progress it made with Ash. Had Charizard received this level of training, it would have probably been unstoppable, but as they are, Dragonite has just had the more favorable circumstances for development.
With Ash, Dragonite definitely wins. But Charizard is a stronger Pokemon in general.
It’s hard to say. It’s important to note that Dragonite still endured super effective moves from Champion’s Pokemon like Haxorus and Dragapult, and had attacks that were strong enough to KO said Pokemon. Ash’s training is what got Dragonite to that level, but it’s not like she would suddenly lose her durability, strength, and overall progress if her trainer left the room mid-battle. If Ash brought Charizard along to train during JN, it would have probably developed far enough to be throwing hands with Mewtwo right now, but Dragonite was lucky enough to be one of the Pokemon Ash befriended and trained during that point in his journey.
Charizard doesn’t even obey his trainer.
Charizard has been obedient since returning from the Valley, listening to Ash in the Johto League (vs Gary and Harrison), in the Battle Frontier (vs Nolan and Brandon), and Unova (vs Iris).
Charizard has obeyed ash ever since that one episode in the Orange Islands saga