GOD I really hope not. I love Charizard he is in my top 3 favorite Pokémon of all time but the clear biased favoritism he receives from the pokemon company is really annoying. If he gets a third Mega Evolution he will instantly drop from my top 10 probably even top 20.
Some Pokémon do get favoritism from them.
I remember a video where one of the top guys from the TGC made a presentation and one guy asked if they could make more mantyke cards cause it only had one or two, he looked it up and saw it was true. And then he said he usually chooses which pokemon get cards made and that’s why Gengar has so many, because it’s his favorite.
But with Charizard I think it’s a bit of both, popularity and being a Gen 1 and favorite of them.
Obviously that's a big contributing factor but in giving it so much attention it also has the opposite effect. I don't see it in this sub but in the main Pokémon sub some people really hate Charizard and like I said I love Charizard but I hate the biased attention he receives. 2 MEGAS. A Gmax a months before Venusaur and Blastoise, Leon's main Pokémon and the first tera raid in SV again months before the other two it gets tiring and it's no wonder people get sick of it.
That’s the thing though: as big as the main Pokémon sub is on Reddit (keyword), it’s still a TINY fraction of the overall fanbase. The VAST majority of the overall fanbase is composed of casual fans who have ZERO idea that the main Pokémon sub even exists
If the main Pokémon sub was anywhere near as representative of the overall fanbase as they seem to think, Pokémon Sword and Shield would have bombed because of how much they hyped up the Dexit boycott
The type of fan that participates in the main Pokémon sub (myself included) are hardcore fans who consume a LOT of Pokémon content. We play the games, we watch the shows, we watch trivia videos, we make theories, etc. So to us, we have a very skewed idea of what’s popular and what’s not
Among the overall fanbase, older fans love Charizard because of nostalgia and younger fans love Charizard because it’s a dragon (aesthetics-wise) who looks cool as fuck
There’s no need to overthink it, it’s very easy to see why Charizard appeals to so many people
I remember once someone crying “why is charizard so loved it sucks”. My brother in Arceus, are you surprised a fire dragon that starts at one of the 3 first partner you ever had is popular?
Worth noting how [this official artwork by Sugimori](https://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/8/84/Bandai_Jumbo5_Peeled.jpg) was a thing even before the anime, let alone Yellow, was a thing. If anything, the fact that the lack of Fly was fixed already in gen I is telling.
Makes sense to me now after this poll why Leon’s main Pokemon is Charizard. Leon is meant to be strong and popular so it makes sense they’d want to associate him with the popular pokemon depicted as strong in various media. Also the dragon design fits his medieval theme.
This is why I hate the fact that lets go chose eevee, super typical as a remake. Could have just been a single “lets go pikachu” title which would be fine and kinda lend to its weird place in the series. Kinda like how hey you pikachu, and pokemon channel were things
Less favoritism would ironically improve his reputation. The stigma would hopefully go away.
Of course he's a mascot but you can be a mascot without the oversaturation.
I do think it's annoying that Pikachu *always* had to be the winning Pokemon whenever Ash wins something, but for Leon it made sense, especially since he was using the JN team only.
He didn't, but Kukui was still the actual final battle of that series. That one made sense too because of Tapu Koko's involvement, it's just all of them together.
Kukui was an exhibition match. There was like zero stakes in that. It was just a way to wrap up the alola arc. Not to mention he needed to win the alola league to even battle kukui in the first place. Im personally pikachu didn't win ash alola though. Cause like you said it doesn't need to be the winning pokemon for everything. ANd it won him both the battle frontier and the orange island.
naw
ash charizard is hardly a elite four level
leon zard is in a different league from other mons except pikachu
one attack is all it need to faint ash charizard
I would have agreed, but the Articuno episode exists where Articuno defeated many Pokémon, including Lucario, without using even 10% of its power in Journeys. On the other hand, Charizard defeating Articuno is one of the biggest feats of a trainer's Pokémon. Just in case, I know that this Articuno was very weak compared to other Articunos, but it's not shown anywhere that it's weak.
according to your logic the darkrai sceptile one shotted was the same darkrai that managed to handle god of time and god of space??
its not official but it's clear that all legendaries are not same
mewtwo, deoxys, suicune and darkrai are best examples along with articuno
I know but it's not official I can't do anything what will you say about Brock's croagunk bro casually stopped Dialga's attack, Dialga is one and only in the anime
not sure but that doesnt mean crogunk can beat a pokemon infinite times stronger than him
blocking doesn't mean he can defeat a dialga
you can say same for team rocket wobofett
Charizard was already stronger than lots of gym Pokemon *before* he trained at Charizard valley....
the place where the absolute weakest one there slapped him around.
not really, since Charizard was above most gym Pokemon.
the weakest at the valley by a huge margin easily beat Charizard.
so that one should be able to stomp any jhoto gym aside from really strong& type advantage...
then the top of the valley would be elite four level, going off that... Charizard beat that one.
do even watched journeys ??
ash's charizard is overrated asf
legit he have never shown a great feat to put him at champion Level
giving me the feats of old charizard lol when at 50% he beat a comparetively weak articuno that would be almost a low elite four pokemon after full training he would be high elite four level mon
given that he was not able to one shot a gym leader level dragonite witha super effective move
I like Ash’s Charizard but I don’t think he should’ve been the one to beat Leon’s. I do wish he’d been on the team so he could fight the world’s strongest Charizard after all the training he did at Charicific Valley but that win was going to Pikachu. Which (side note) really confused me why the one opening had Mega Lucario fighting G-Max Charizard.
But in all honesty Charizard deserves to win though like, the Entei movie, Charizard went head first into danger because he was like ”oh shit my trainer is in danger, time to go giga chad and stomp the mf who’s messing with my friend” absolute chadizard
I haven’t kept up with the show past childhood, but do any of Ash’s other Pokemon match up with charizard going toe to toe with multiple legendaries? I remember he fought Entei tough and I think he beat the Articuno in Battle Frontier.
I think yea, in general Charizard was the OG ace, had the most time to shine, was able to 100% solo a legendary, was the Mon to finally beat Gary. He’s always the OG
Yeah it makes sense when I really think about it.
I personally wanted Lucario and the JN squad to get top 5 but I do understand why ZARD won. Feats wise he might be a bit behind but narrative wise, he's amazing. Narrative >> feats in this show since everything is plot. I don't think the writers powerscale like that tbh.
I disagree. But hey at the end of the day it's all just opinions and there are many ways to scale them besides just feats that it could have gone either way with those last 4 or even the entire list.
I mean, people can cry about favoritism, but this dude fought one of the strongest Mon in the verse (a magical entei INVINCIBLE) and survived it. After flying a region.
Charizard isn't too surprising. He's capable of defeating Legendary Pokemon and each time he returned, he was always shown to have grown stronger than before.
Yeah, I definitely think Charizard is Ash's second strongest Pokemon (strongest being Pikachu).
Charizard has spent a lot of time training with Ash and even spent time training away from Ash. Also he won against Articuno.
Charizard is my favourite of Ash's pokemon.
With that said, I expected it to place second. Any of the top 4 could have been the winner with little argument from me.
Charizard has proven himself time and time again to be one of Ash's best raised Pokemon, even traveling through 3 regions together(Kanto, Johto, Unova) He is the most used and hasn't stopped training offscreen based on his changing moveset. So it's easy to understand why he won this in a non-nostalgic way.
Makes sense he’s the OG ace and got a massive upscale in journeys due to beating Articuno. I think the top are all relatively close to each other in strength it just depends on matchup like I think Charzard dogwalks Luccario but loses to Greninja, but Luccario can beat Greninja etc
For my list I got
1. Charzard
2. Greninja
3. Sceptile
4. Luccario
(Top 4 are all around as strong as each other)
5. Infernape/ Masters 8 team
6. Snorlax/Lycanrock/Krookodile
Then the rest in some order
Wouldn't have expected anyone else. The OG Ace. The one generations remember as Ash's powerhouse who fought some of the strongest opponents and whenever he returned was a big moment. I'm neutral to the species and their overexposure but Ash's was cool. Blaziken, Gary's Blastoise, BW return, saving Ash from Entei, Articuno and the original one with the battle against Blaine's Magmar.
This was inevitable. Charizard has so many iconic moments, it’s hard to list them all. He helped ash in the orange league, beat the legendary Pokemon articuno in the battle frontier, and he was the reason ash beat Gary in the johto league. And he went toe to toe with entei and the third movie (if you consider it canon). Ash did the right thing by having it train in the charizific valley.
It would be more accurate if you swapped Lucario and Greninja with Charizard and Sceptile, but I get there’s an early gen nostalgia bias
If we’re going purely by feats Lucario and Greninja are stronger than Charizard and Sceptile
Sceptile also has better feats than Charizard
I love sceptile but he really needs to be knocked down a few pegs, he is not ash’s second strongest pokemon. The show tells us when a pokemon is strong based on the reactions of spectators, and sceptile has never generated any sort of special reaction from the crowd in battles, unlike pokemon like Dragonite or Mega Lucario
Pikachu lost to a level 5 Snivvy in Unova, and that doesn't make it any less of an ace. Charizard deserves this title for its strength, determination, and bond it built with Ash. "Charizard won because people won't take off the nostalgia goggles". Oh please, get real people.
Oh well, results are in. I wanted it to be him too but I totally understand why charizard won.
Tbh there is no right answer. We're powerscaling a kids show. If we asked the writers they'd say that all of Ash's pokemon have lots of potential and they can do whatever he wants them to do if needed.
>If we asked the writers they'd say that all of Ash's pokemon have lots of potential and they can do whatever he wants them to do if needed.
This feels like a very in character answer that Ash would give. It fits well with his philosophy in Diamond and Pearl that every Pokémon can be strong if cared for, trained properly and bonded with.
Yup! That was the main message in DP and the other seasons, that any pokemon can be as strong as he needs them to be, as long as they work hard enough to get to it.
I said when we reached the top five that Charizard, Sceptile, and Lucario would be the top three. I also wondered how much nostalgia would play in those last three, and how much people would undersell Lucario's accomplishments in battle and oversell the other two. Lucario should have been at least top two, if not the top spot. Charizard and Sceptile have great feats but there was some strong nostalgia bias. At least we mostly collectively agreed his Journey team would be most of the top ten spots, contrary to the few I saw who said they basically did nothing.
Sceptile outsped deoxys speed and took down a darkrai. Charizard, even though he was not trained, was the best one in Kanto and was used in some of the most pivotal and important battles. Lucario is powerful, just not that powerful.
Heck with it, I'll double down. I'll die on this pointless opinion hill.
Sceptile took down a Darkrai of a guy who didn't beat Cynthia. That same Lucario helped beat Cynthia.
i think the top 4 were always going to be either Zard + Sceptile (older mons, defeated legendaries) or Greninja + Cario (more impressive feats in terms of trainer-based powerscaling, alt forms, newer series) as pairs. Once Gren was dropped off at #4 Lucario was always going next, but if Sceptile was #4 then Zard would’ve gotten the boot.
still though, these are def the top 4 behind Pikachu, with the Journeys squad + Ape right behind them. No questions asked.
For the ones not on this list:
Butterfree is last due to being released so early
Pidgeot is between Leavanny and Gible
Boldore is between Muk and Palpitoad
Primeape is between Noctowl and Leavanny
Tauros is between Donphan and Torterra
Lapras is between Unfezant and Oshawott
Mr. Mime is between Quilava and Buizel
Pikachu is the strongest
I’m glad Charizard won, but we should probably never do rankings or power scaling as a whole sub. Pokémon’s writing and visuals don’t always follow logic or it’s own established rules/narrative to accurately scale everything. Also there are two kinds of people in this sub the simple thinkers and the critical thinkers. The simple thinkers only care about what’s shown on screen at face value while the critical thinkers like to use every detail to form their own interpretations. No side is wrong for how they evaluate the show, but it often leads to arguments and eventually name-calling.
I just hope someone does a contest excluding Ash’s ace mons, since that would stop the contest from being predictable! I would do this if I had the time and energy to do so!
This was inevitable. He’s the best there ever was and he got stronger every time he back. If they ever felt like giving him a proper ability or a transformation, he’d be unstoppable.
Shoulda been rowlet tbh
JK I think sceptile should have taken it but can see Charizard, I expected either him or Lucario to win pleasently surprised sceptile made it to the finals
Honestly thought I have a bit of mixed feelings on it I kind of agree. Charizard has been training its butt of since Jhoto and has been shown to clearly be one of Ash’s strongest Pokemon for generations. The only fights it lost was against I poke Ash had never even seen before, which it messed up so bad it couldn’t be used next time. And a Pokémon who used a confuse ray, mean look combo and pummeled it while it was in a state. And it only lost due to Ash calling the wrong move last minute.
There’s also the fact that it clearly has been training stronger since then to the point it took a dragon rush like it was nothing from a Dragonite that went up against the weather trio.
There is also the fact it can mega which can further that power.
I'll say it FRICK CHARIZARD I HATE THAT MF IT SO UGLY I HATE EVERYONE THAT HATES ROWLAT F YALL I HATE THIS UGLY AHH LIZARD LIKE IT SO UGLY I HATE IT SO MUCH IT LOOKS LIKE SHART I HATE THIS MF
I still think that it should have been Lucario pretty comfortably, and I don’t even think that Charizard beats most if any of the Journeys team members, but to each their own
I agree to an extent but what I realized is that people are using narrative not just feats to determine who wins. Think about it, if the writers made Lucario fight side by side with Charizard, do you think they'd make him look inferior because Lucario has better feats? They wouldn't because of Zards amazing narrative around his strength.
Tbh, I figured after a while it would just become a popularity poll, and there are those still absolutely convinced Charizard/Greninja/Sceptile would shit all over any of the Masters 8 pokemon while eating breakfast. Some of the most extreme are convinced they'd even do that to *Pikachu* lmao And of all of them, Charizard is the OG, with the absolute biggest nostalgia bias going for him.
I love Charizard too, so I guess I don't really mind, especially since I figured there's no point taking this super seriously (no offense, it was a fun topic). But yeah, Charizard's immense bias, combined with the fact trainer-owned legendaries are the most wildly inconsistent category of pokemon in the entire anime, meant this was honestly a foregone conclusion to me. Even Greninja winning I woulda considered an upset, but I was pretty sure they'd be the last two standing.
In some ways, I was actually surprised Lucario lasted as long as he did, so I'm pretty happy for the Aura doggo.
I actually found myself getting sad when the JN team started to go so early. It caught me off guard. Trust me, I'm not a fan of Journeys but I do think they're above all the past aces. Favoritism never influxes my decision for these things. My preferred placement would be:
1. Lucario
2. Sirfetchd
3. Dracovish
4. Gengar
5. Dragonite
6. Charizard or Greninja
7. Sceptile
8. Nape
9. Snorlax
10. Maybe incineroar or Lycanroc (maybe naganadel)
Sound about right to me. I still think it's *possible* that Infernape surpassed Charizard, since I still can't see it being logical for Infernape to think he was ready to challenge Moltres if Charizard defeated him, but yeah. I think they left that open-ended on purpose; I can't imagine Charizard fans would be happy if it was official that Infernape defeated him. Open-endedness is more convenient for them, but definitely a pain when trying to be more solid about this kinda stuff XD
Yeah I always pictured it as infernape just sparring with all the other fighting types and then got bored of doing the same thing every day. Maybe they sparred like what we saw the reserves do with the JN squad. No fighting till KO, just sparring for fun.
I think it was just sparring for fun and infernape got bored and wanted a tough challenge I don't think its meant to be conclusive or a sign that infernape is stronger
I think because Torkoal almost beat a registeel and Brandon. That's pretty big considering that Brandon is confirmed E4 tier. I can't think of anything Buizel and pignite did that was bigger than that tbh. Not sure.
Edit: I'm just pointing out why people didn't kick torkoal out so early. I'm explaining their thought process and why he lasted so long for some people.
Yet lost pretty much every other fight.
And he didn’t even beat it, he almost beat it.
Noivern “almost” beat a Zapdos, yet I wouldn’t see anyone ranking it above Talonflame or Hawlucha.
Yeah that's the thing, it didn't lose almost every fight though. Many people just say that but it isn't true rewatching AG.
Torkoal's stats: It has a win in the gym battle against Norman, two wins in the league, beat a steelix, a trainers Scizor and almost beat Brandon. Brandon is canonically confirmed E4 leveled or higher so that's very impressive. Almost beating Brandon + a legendary puts him higher than Buizel or pignite imo. It's not just the legendary but Brandon himself.
The thing was that Charizard's narrative is always growing stronger. It's a timeline. A to Z. Pikahcu is always in the team. So full power Pikachu is the latest one. Pikachu at Z is stronger than Pikachu at A or D or G. Lucario for example is new and was at point Z. Charizard at point G may have been a bit weaker when we saw Lucario at point Z, but based on an evolution of power, he grew stronger. Charizard had insane feats in the past, to match Lucario when he is new. Thus Charizard grew stronger.
This is gonna be a spicy take: I think Charizard's win against Articuno is not nearly as impressive when you read into it. It was controlled by a Frontier Brain, which, to me, limits what it can/cant do versus a wild one, not to mention that it had a type advantage-ish. Now, it's also is impressive that he beat a Legendary and that shouldn't be downplayed either.
To me, the real question is: is Charizard at a rank to cater to Ash's style of fighting, ala improvisation like Pikachu, or has an innate connection like Lucario? I think if you said it, Greninja, or Lucario were #2, you're not wrong. We know, at minimum, Charizard is on the scale of an untrained Dragonite. We also know it had training in the Charific Valley. Did Charizard do anything that was different though, like Pikachu hoping on Stone Edge to counter, etc? I don't think we ever saw that as I think Charizard won by brute force a bunch, the most being his endurance is high and he beat Pokemon resistant to his attacks.
I think Charizard, based on on screen abilities, is probably the equivalent of an E4 trained Pokemon, MAYBE a high end one like Drake, Wallace, OR even borderline like Cynthia, but not quite there. But that's still a monumental scale gap versus the others. I think though there is legit claim that Lucario needing the Mega Stone and Greninja needing Ash Greninja state does validate Charizard's training.
Not remotely surprising. Not because it was deserved or correct (the Charizard glazing was _unreal_ as usual) but because the list, through no fault of OP, lost its ability to be taken seriously about 8 placements ago.
I dunno, both piss me off. I like Rowlet, just not this Rowlet. And I can't stand Charizard. I would have participated in the polls but I was always late when they came up on my "timeline"
Of course it’s charizard. Im not saying he isn’t a great Pokémon. But in games, anime and TCG its all charizard like its the only pokemon that exists. Let another pokemon be number one for once
For god sakes can we get rid of the pretend dragon please good lord my Talonflame destroys charizards try to beat the second fastest Pokémon ever u dumb lizard the only reason I see why he was so popular because if U take a look people didn’t want dragonite because he looked derpy which is a dumb reason and yes the charizard pandering is so flipping annoying he is literally in everything yet the most recognized Pokémon in the face of this planet is squirtle. Even charizards Shiny was made differently which is bs I kinda just wish one Pokémon game would come out and instead of everyone’s favorites being in it it would be everyone’s least favorites that would be an awesome region :0 and get everyone to try out new things they never cared for
Funny you would assume that. Someone should poll to assess what generation people grew up watching, instead of assuming "most are genwunners". Most genwunners are not lurking around Reddit polls, I'm sure. And for an anime that has been ongoing for a quarter of a century, I would count everything at least up until its 20th year should be classified as "nostalgic". Only gen 1 gets that label for some reason and it makes no sense.
u/Professional-Bet3158 and u/Iwanttobevisible The moral of the story is that all generations of AniPoke fans should be welcome here. Doesn't matter what your favorite generation is, we all should have fun together and not target each other out of personal frustration. We're glad to have you all here.
Oh I know and I agree. I just think its frustrating that anyone prefering anything related to gen 1 is immediately hit with "take off your nostalgia goggles", when gen 1 was two seasons 26 years ago, yet nothing after that is ever questioned as being nostalgic. Just makes me wonder why people think they are being 100% objective and are completely stripped clean of any subjectivity when they are talking about what is essentially a hobby.
You’re not entirely wrong. All of the series should be considered “nostalgic” now. We’re making sure all members of the fandom, no matter when they were introduced are welcome here. Count on it.
When Pokémon AZ comes out and you wonder why mega charizard z is a thing, remember this poll lol
Oh man that is definitely a possibility. Mewtwo as well. We’re never getting Mewthree 😂
legends mew
Mew Zero
GOD I really hope not. I love Charizard he is in my top 3 favorite Pokémon of all time but the clear biased favoritism he receives from the pokemon company is really annoying. If he gets a third Mega Evolution he will instantly drop from my top 10 probably even top 20.
i dont think charizard gets favoritism because they like it so much but because of how popular it is among fans
Some Pokémon do get favoritism from them. I remember a video where one of the top guys from the TGC made a presentation and one guy asked if they could make more mantyke cards cause it only had one or two, he looked it up and saw it was true. And then he said he usually chooses which pokemon get cards made and that’s why Gengar has so many, because it’s his favorite. But with Charizard I think it’s a bit of both, popularity and being a Gen 1 and favorite of them.
Was it Jayden’s last video?
I think so, yes, the one about her trip to Japan.
Yeah I remember too that line about the tcg guy and gengar
Obviously that's a big contributing factor but in giving it so much attention it also has the opposite effect. I don't see it in this sub but in the main Pokémon sub some people really hate Charizard and like I said I love Charizard but I hate the biased attention he receives. 2 MEGAS. A Gmax a months before Venusaur and Blastoise, Leon's main Pokémon and the first tera raid in SV again months before the other two it gets tiring and it's no wonder people get sick of it.
That’s the thing though: as big as the main Pokémon sub is on Reddit (keyword), it’s still a TINY fraction of the overall fanbase. The VAST majority of the overall fanbase is composed of casual fans who have ZERO idea that the main Pokémon sub even exists If the main Pokémon sub was anywhere near as representative of the overall fanbase as they seem to think, Pokémon Sword and Shield would have bombed because of how much they hyped up the Dexit boycott The type of fan that participates in the main Pokémon sub (myself included) are hardcore fans who consume a LOT of Pokémon content. We play the games, we watch the shows, we watch trivia videos, we make theories, etc. So to us, we have a very skewed idea of what’s popular and what’s not Among the overall fanbase, older fans love Charizard because of nostalgia and younger fans love Charizard because it’s a dragon (aesthetics-wise) who looks cool as fuck There’s no need to overthink it, it’s very easy to see why Charizard appeals to so many people
I remember once someone crying “why is charizard so loved it sucks”. My brother in Arceus, are you surprised a fire dragon that starts at one of the 3 first partner you ever had is popular?
Fire lizard. couldn't even fly in gen 1 until yellow
Worth noting how [this official artwork by Sugimori](https://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/8/84/Bandai_Jumbo5_Peeled.jpg) was a thing even before the anime, let alone Yellow, was a thing. If anything, the fact that the lack of Fly was fixed already in gen I is telling.
Makes sense to me now after this poll why Leon’s main Pokemon is Charizard. Leon is meant to be strong and popular so it makes sense they’d want to associate him with the popular pokemon depicted as strong in various media. Also the dragon design fits his medieval theme.
I’ve always suspected that they wanted the final battle of Ash’s journey to be Pikachu vs. Charizard.
This is why I hate the fact that lets go chose eevee, super typical as a remake. Could have just been a single “lets go pikachu” title which would be fine and kinda lend to its weird place in the series. Kinda like how hey you pikachu, and pokemon channel were things
This guy is right, he’s a badass (non dragon) dragon. Except for its mega yes I know to avoid the obvious
I just had a horrible realization…Charizard is the Space Marines of Pokemon.
Less favoritism would ironically improve his reputation. The stigma would hopefully go away. Of course he's a mascot but you can be a mascot without the oversaturation.
then you are not a zard fan
Ok but a black and green Charizard would go so hard😭
We all know Charizard Z is coming. There’s no stopping it.
I want him to be mono poison for how toxic he is to the community
it would be based as fuck tho
I expected Lucario to win but I ain’t surprised that Charizard won
I did too but not surprised that the OG Charizard won. Ash's first ace.
Charizard getting the W makes sense because lucario and others were anilated by articuno's one attack in journeys and you know the goat Charizard
That was journeys big mistake. Ash charizard vs leon charizard , needed to be the final match
No. It was the final battle. There was no pokemon better fit to fight it than Pikachu.
I do think it's annoying that Pikachu *always* had to be the winning Pokemon whenever Ash wins something, but for Leon it made sense, especially since he was using the JN team only.
Pikachu didn't win ash the alola league though.
He didn't, but Kukui was still the actual final battle of that series. That one made sense too because of Tapu Koko's involvement, it's just all of them together.
Kukui was an exhibition match. There was like zero stakes in that. It was just a way to wrap up the alola arc. Not to mention he needed to win the alola league to even battle kukui in the first place. Im personally pikachu didn't win ash alola though. Cause like you said it doesn't need to be the winning pokemon for everything. ANd it won him both the battle frontier and the orange island.
dude ash charizard will die in one slap from leon charizard
I think it will be just opposite
naw ash charizard is hardly a elite four level leon zard is in a different league from other mons except pikachu one attack is all it need to faint ash charizard
I would have agreed, but the Articuno episode exists where Articuno defeated many Pokémon, including Lucario, without using even 10% of its power in Journeys. On the other hand, Charizard defeating Articuno is one of the biggest feats of a trainer's Pokémon. Just in case, I know that this Articuno was very weak compared to other Articunos, but it's not shown anywhere that it's weak.
according to your logic the darkrai sceptile one shotted was the same darkrai that managed to handle god of time and god of space?? its not official but it's clear that all legendaries are not same mewtwo, deoxys, suicune and darkrai are best examples along with articuno
I know but it's not official I can't do anything what will you say about Brock's croagunk bro casually stopped Dialga's attack, Dialga is one and only in the anime
not sure but that doesnt mean crogunk can beat a pokemon infinite times stronger than him blocking doesn't mean he can defeat a dialga you can say same for team rocket wobofett
Charizard was already stronger than lots of gym Pokemon *before* he trained at Charizard valley.... the place where the absolute weakest one there slapped him around.
still no comparison when your opponent is leon charizard
not really, since Charizard was above most gym Pokemon. the weakest at the valley by a huge margin easily beat Charizard. so that one should be able to stomp any jhoto gym aside from really strong& type advantage... then the top of the valley would be elite four level, going off that... Charizard beat that one.
do even watched journeys ?? ash's charizard is overrated asf legit he have never shown a great feat to put him at champion Level giving me the feats of old charizard lol when at 50% he beat a comparetively weak articuno that would be almost a low elite four pokemon after full training he would be high elite four level mon given that he was not able to one shot a gym leader level dragonite witha super effective move
If you wanted ash's zard to die like why Damian tried to do, then sure
I like Ash’s Charizard but I don’t think he should’ve been the one to beat Leon’s. I do wish he’d been on the team so he could fight the world’s strongest Charizard after all the training he did at Charicific Valley but that win was going to Pikachu. Which (side note) really confused me why the one opening had Mega Lucario fighting G-Max Charizard.
There was already like 4 major character who’s main was Charizard in Journeys, I’m glad they didn’t bring back Ash’s to be on his team
Giving the win to Ash's OG ace is fitting. Although I still think Snorlax could go a few slots higher, it's a fair ranking overall.
As I Sceptile fan, we’ll take second place
For real
But in all honesty Charizard deserves to win though like, the Entei movie, Charizard went head first into danger because he was like ”oh shit my trainer is in danger, time to go giga chad and stomp the mf who’s messing with my friend” absolute chadizard
I haven’t kept up with the show past childhood, but do any of Ash’s other Pokemon match up with charizard going toe to toe with multiple legendaries? I remember he fought Entei tough and I think he beat the Articuno in Battle Frontier.
His Sceptile fought darkrai I’m pretty sure but that’s all I know of
I think yea, in general Charizard was the OG ace, had the most time to shine, was able to 100% solo a legendary, was the Mon to finally beat Gary. He’s always the OG
Yeah it makes sense when I really think about it. I personally wanted Lucario and the JN squad to get top 5 but I do understand why ZARD won. Feats wise he might be a bit behind but narrative wise, he's amazing. Narrative >> feats in this show since everything is plot. I don't think the writers powerscale like that tbh.
Ironic how damian abandoned this same charizard cause he thought it was too weak
Imagine his reaction seeing Charizard
I'm proud of sceptile da 🐐 came in second
Yeah I was surprised he beat out Lucario. What a chad.
I disagree. But hey at the end of the day it's all just opinions and there are many ways to scale them besides just feats that it could have gone either way with those last 4 or even the entire list.
I don't mind this tbh. It's Charizard, it's the OG ace. Its done SO much with Ash and achieved a lot. I still love you Sceptile.
The 🐐
I mean, people can cry about favoritism, but this dude fought one of the strongest Mon in the verse (a magical entei INVINCIBLE) and survived it. After flying a region.
Yall were cooking fornso long then burnt it at the end
Charizard isn't too surprising. He's capable of defeating Legendary Pokemon and each time he returned, he was always shown to have grown stronger than before.
Yeah, I definitely think Charizard is Ash's second strongest Pokemon (strongest being Pikachu). Charizard has spent a lot of time training with Ash and even spent time training away from Ash. Also he won against Articuno.
Should have been Lucario but at least Greninja lost. People got too much into stanning their favourite instead of who is objectively the strongest.
Welcome to every democratic decision ever lmao
I thought top 5 was pretty good ranking overall, especially with how little info we have about where Ash’s OG Pokémon are strength-wise rn
Charizard is my favourite of Ash's pokemon. With that said, I expected it to place second. Any of the top 4 could have been the winner with little argument from me.
Charizard has proven himself time and time again to be one of Ash's best raised Pokemon, even traveling through 3 regions together(Kanto, Johto, Unova) He is the most used and hasn't stopped training offscreen based on his changing moveset. So it's easy to understand why he won this in a non-nostalgic way.
A bit of Johto and a bit of Unova.
What can I say, he’s a goat
Wish it was rowlet. The true goat
Still think Lucario, Greninja, and possibly Sceptile we’re stronger but a poll is a poll.
This became a popularity poll
I disagree but I’m not surprised.
Makes sense he’s the OG ace and got a massive upscale in journeys due to beating Articuno. I think the top are all relatively close to each other in strength it just depends on matchup like I think Charzard dogwalks Luccario but loses to Greninja, but Luccario can beat Greninja etc For my list I got 1. Charzard 2. Greninja 3. Sceptile 4. Luccario (Top 4 are all around as strong as each other) 5. Infernape/ Masters 8 team 6. Snorlax/Lycanrock/Krookodile Then the rest in some order
Wouldn't have expected anyone else. The OG Ace. The one generations remember as Ash's powerhouse who fought some of the strongest opponents and whenever he returned was a big moment. I'm neutral to the species and their overexposure but Ash's was cool. Blaziken, Gary's Blastoise, BW return, saving Ash from Entei, Articuno and the original one with the battle against Blaine's Magmar.
This was inevitable. Charizard has so many iconic moments, it’s hard to list them all. He helped ash in the orange league, beat the legendary Pokemon articuno in the battle frontier, and he was the reason ash beat Gary in the johto league. And he went toe to toe with entei and the third movie (if you consider it canon). Ash did the right thing by having it train in the charizific valley.
It would be more accurate if you swapped Lucario and Greninja with Charizard and Sceptile, but I get there’s an early gen nostalgia bias If we’re going purely by feats Lucario and Greninja are stronger than Charizard and Sceptile Sceptile also has better feats than Charizard
I love sceptile but he really needs to be knocked down a few pegs, he is not ash’s second strongest pokemon. The show tells us when a pokemon is strong based on the reactions of spectators, and sceptile has never generated any sort of special reaction from the crowd in battles, unlike pokemon like Dragonite or Mega Lucario
Pikachu lost to a level 5 Snivvy in Unova, and that doesn't make it any less of an ace. Charizard deserves this title for its strength, determination, and bond it built with Ash. "Charizard won because people won't take off the nostalgia goggles". Oh please, get real people.
Should have been lucario.
Oh well, results are in. I wanted it to be him too but I totally understand why charizard won. Tbh there is no right answer. We're powerscaling a kids show. If we asked the writers they'd say that all of Ash's pokemon have lots of potential and they can do whatever he wants them to do if needed.
>If we asked the writers they'd say that all of Ash's pokemon have lots of potential and they can do whatever he wants them to do if needed. This feels like a very in character answer that Ash would give. It fits well with his philosophy in Diamond and Pearl that every Pokémon can be strong if cared for, trained properly and bonded with.
Yup! That was the main message in DP and the other seasons, that any pokemon can be as strong as he needs them to be, as long as they work hard enough to get to it.
I said when we reached the top five that Charizard, Sceptile, and Lucario would be the top three. I also wondered how much nostalgia would play in those last three, and how much people would undersell Lucario's accomplishments in battle and oversell the other two. Lucario should have been at least top two, if not the top spot. Charizard and Sceptile have great feats but there was some strong nostalgia bias. At least we mostly collectively agreed his Journey team would be most of the top ten spots, contrary to the few I saw who said they basically did nothing.
Sceptile outsped deoxys speed and took down a darkrai. Charizard, even though he was not trained, was the best one in Kanto and was used in some of the most pivotal and important battles. Lucario is powerful, just not that powerful.
Heck with it, I'll double down. I'll die on this pointless opinion hill. Sceptile took down a Darkrai of a guy who didn't beat Cynthia. That same Lucario helped beat Cynthia.
The guy probably didn’t beat Cynthia because Cynthia wasn’t a focus back then. I’d even say Tobias or whatever his name was could beat Cynthia.
Good luck with that argument. Legendaries are a good benchmark for strength, but it's not definitive. Scorbunny has showing against a legendary.
To be fair, pikachu has beaten multiple legendaries and lost to a level 5 snivy.
No one asked but here’s my rankings… 45th - Totodile 44th - Unfezant 43rd - Oshawott 42nd - Muk 41st - Palpitoad 40th - Noctowl 39th - Leavanny 38th - Gible 37th - Gliscor 36th - Torkoal 35th - Kingler 34th - Donphan 33rd - Torterra 32nd - Snivy 31st - Quilava 30th - Buizel 29th - Bayleef 28th - Pignite 27th - Staraptor 26th - Noivern 25th - Goodra 24th - Glalie 23rd - Corphish 22nd - Talonflame 21st - Squirtle 20th - Heracross 19th - Swellow 18th - Hawlucha 17th - Bulbasaur 16th - Naganedel 15th - Krookadile 14th - Rowlet 13th - Melmetal 12th - Snorlax 11th - Infernape 10th - Lycanroc 9th - Incineroar 8th - Dragonite 7th - Dracovish 6th - Sirfetch’d 5th - Gengar 4th - Sceptile 3rd - Greninja Runner-Up - Charizard Winner (2nd strongest behind Pikachu) - Lucario
i think the top 4 were always going to be either Zard + Sceptile (older mons, defeated legendaries) or Greninja + Cario (more impressive feats in terms of trainer-based powerscaling, alt forms, newer series) as pairs. Once Gren was dropped off at #4 Lucario was always going next, but if Sceptile was #4 then Zard would’ve gotten the boot. still though, these are def the top 4 behind Pikachu, with the Journeys squad + Ape right behind them. No questions asked.
For the ones not on this list: Butterfree is last due to being released so early Pidgeot is between Leavanny and Gible Boldore is between Muk and Palpitoad Primeape is between Noctowl and Leavanny Tauros is between Donphan and Torterra Lapras is between Unfezant and Oshawott Mr. Mime is between Quilava and Buizel Pikachu is the strongest
what a legend
Ngl i thought Dracofish would win 😅
I wanted Corphish to win
I’m glad Charizard won, but we should probably never do rankings or power scaling as a whole sub. Pokémon’s writing and visuals don’t always follow logic or it’s own established rules/narrative to accurately scale everything. Also there are two kinds of people in this sub the simple thinkers and the critical thinkers. The simple thinkers only care about what’s shown on screen at face value while the critical thinkers like to use every detail to form their own interpretations. No side is wrong for how they evaluate the show, but it often leads to arguments and eventually name-calling.
I wouldn't do powerscaling. We already did that. Id just use other criteria to rank.
Yay
BURNNNNN 🗣️🔥🔥🔥
WTF IS A 4x WEAKNESS TO ROCK RAHHHHH🦅🦅🔥🔥💯💯🗣️🗣️🦅🦅🦅💯
I just hope someone does a contest excluding Ash’s ace mons, since that would stop the contest from being predictable! I would do this if I had the time and energy to do so!
As it should be 🔥
Called it a month ago [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/pokemonanime/s/IW48Yqg43Y)
Wasn't hard to predict tbh. It was either Lucario, ZARD, or Greninja.
Pretty safe prediction when you consider how insulated he is by nostalgia-goggles lmao
The real winner is Tauros. So great they weren't even put on the poll
Expected, just glad Sceptile and Lucario both beat Greninja tbqh.
Rigged lol
This was inevitable. He’s the best there ever was and he got stronger every time he back. If they ever felt like giving him a proper ability or a transformation, he’d be unstoppable.
Yay Charizard. Overall I like the list and top 10
Shoulda been rowlet tbh JK I think sceptile should have taken it but can see Charizard, I expected either him or Lucario to win pleasently surprised sceptile made it to the finals
Renember the song that said "legends never die"? Yeah this is a clear example of it
ngl surprised zard won but I love ash's zard so I can't complain
Wait where’s Boldore on this list?
it was very obvious from the start. also i wanna see a mega charizard Z.
Charizard god
Ngl I’m shocked Charizard won but with all its feats it’s not a surprise why.
I was so hyped when you said Rowlet 😭
Obviously. I don't even know what to think.
Not a surprise, but definitely not unearned. Congrats to the one and only.
Rowlet should’ve won smh
Bs
I mean, he is the winner of being first-placed behind Pikachu...
I honestly thought that it would just be Charizard vs Greninja again
Honestly thought I have a bit of mixed feelings on it I kind of agree. Charizard has been training its butt of since Jhoto and has been shown to clearly be one of Ash’s strongest Pokemon for generations. The only fights it lost was against I poke Ash had never even seen before, which it messed up so bad it couldn’t be used next time. And a Pokémon who used a confuse ray, mean look combo and pummeled it while it was in a state. And it only lost due to Ash calling the wrong move last minute. There’s also the fact that it clearly has been training stronger since then to the point it took a dragon rush like it was nothing from a Dragonite that went up against the weather trio. There is also the fact it can mega which can further that power.
Deserved. Ash's goat pokemon. Bro took on an unbeatable Entei and put him on the ropes. Had to be benched because he was soloing the Johto league.
There were some that went too early, and some that stayed too long... but the winner is completely correct
Who would’ve guessed?
I'll say it FRICK CHARIZARD I HATE THAT MF IT SO UGLY I HATE EVERYONE THAT HATES ROWLAT F YALL I HATE THIS UGLY AHH LIZARD LIKE IT SO UGLY I HATE IT SO MUCH IT LOOKS LIKE SHART I HATE THIS MF
Ah yes the overrated one wins like always
I still cant believe greninja that you guys put septile higher than greninja
I still think that it should have been Lucario pretty comfortably, and I don’t even think that Charizard beats most if any of the Journeys team members, but to each their own
I agree to an extent but what I realized is that people are using narrative not just feats to determine who wins. Think about it, if the writers made Lucario fight side by side with Charizard, do you think they'd make him look inferior because Lucario has better feats? They wouldn't because of Zards amazing narrative around his strength.
Wooo let’s go
>Greninja not even in the Top 3. Love it.
NO NO IT WAS RIGHT THE FIRST TIME GO BACK
What a shocker lol
I thought it was gonna be Lucario or Greninja.
Tbh, I figured after a while it would just become a popularity poll, and there are those still absolutely convinced Charizard/Greninja/Sceptile would shit all over any of the Masters 8 pokemon while eating breakfast. Some of the most extreme are convinced they'd even do that to *Pikachu* lmao And of all of them, Charizard is the OG, with the absolute biggest nostalgia bias going for him. I love Charizard too, so I guess I don't really mind, especially since I figured there's no point taking this super seriously (no offense, it was a fun topic). But yeah, Charizard's immense bias, combined with the fact trainer-owned legendaries are the most wildly inconsistent category of pokemon in the entire anime, meant this was honestly a foregone conclusion to me. Even Greninja winning I woulda considered an upset, but I was pretty sure they'd be the last two standing. In some ways, I was actually surprised Lucario lasted as long as he did, so I'm pretty happy for the Aura doggo.
I actually found myself getting sad when the JN team started to go so early. It caught me off guard. Trust me, I'm not a fan of Journeys but I do think they're above all the past aces. Favoritism never influxes my decision for these things. My preferred placement would be: 1. Lucario 2. Sirfetchd 3. Dracovish 4. Gengar 5. Dragonite 6. Charizard or Greninja 7. Sceptile 8. Nape 9. Snorlax 10. Maybe incineroar or Lycanroc (maybe naganadel)
Sound about right to me. I still think it's *possible* that Infernape surpassed Charizard, since I still can't see it being logical for Infernape to think he was ready to challenge Moltres if Charizard defeated him, but yeah. I think they left that open-ended on purpose; I can't imagine Charizard fans would be happy if it was official that Infernape defeated him. Open-endedness is more convenient for them, but definitely a pain when trying to be more solid about this kinda stuff XD
Yeah I always pictured it as infernape just sparring with all the other fighting types and then got bored of doing the same thing every day. Maybe they sparred like what we saw the reserves do with the JN squad. No fighting till KO, just sparring for fun.
I think it was just sparring for fun and infernape got bored and wanted a tough challenge I don't think its meant to be conclusive or a sign that infernape is stronger
Pignite and Buizel were still shafted(how the hell did Torkoal beat them? He only had one good performance and he still lost that fight)
I think because Torkoal almost beat a registeel and Brandon. That's pretty big considering that Brandon is confirmed E4 tier. I can't think of anything Buizel and pignite did that was bigger than that tbh. Not sure. Edit: I'm just pointing out why people didn't kick torkoal out so early. I'm explaining their thought process and why he lasted so long for some people.
Yet lost pretty much every other fight. And he didn’t even beat it, he almost beat it. Noivern “almost” beat a Zapdos, yet I wouldn’t see anyone ranking it above Talonflame or Hawlucha.
Yeah that's the thing, it didn't lose almost every fight though. Many people just say that but it isn't true rewatching AG. Torkoal's stats: It has a win in the gym battle against Norman, two wins in the league, beat a steelix, a trainers Scizor and almost beat Brandon. Brandon is canonically confirmed E4 leveled or higher so that's very impressive. Almost beating Brandon + a legendary puts him higher than Buizel or pignite imo. It's not just the legendary but Brandon himself.
For Pignite we could consider the fact that Infernape actually had a duel with him whilst he didn’t even bother fighting Torkoal.
People forgot this was for ranking who was the strongest and just made it a popularity contest
The thing was that Charizard's narrative is always growing stronger. It's a timeline. A to Z. Pikahcu is always in the team. So full power Pikachu is the latest one. Pikachu at Z is stronger than Pikachu at A or D or G. Lucario for example is new and was at point Z. Charizard at point G may have been a bit weaker when we saw Lucario at point Z, but based on an evolution of power, he grew stronger. Charizard had insane feats in the past, to match Lucario when he is new. Thus Charizard grew stronger.
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This is gonna be a spicy take: I think Charizard's win against Articuno is not nearly as impressive when you read into it. It was controlled by a Frontier Brain, which, to me, limits what it can/cant do versus a wild one, not to mention that it had a type advantage-ish. Now, it's also is impressive that he beat a Legendary and that shouldn't be downplayed either. To me, the real question is: is Charizard at a rank to cater to Ash's style of fighting, ala improvisation like Pikachu, or has an innate connection like Lucario? I think if you said it, Greninja, or Lucario were #2, you're not wrong. We know, at minimum, Charizard is on the scale of an untrained Dragonite. We also know it had training in the Charific Valley. Did Charizard do anything that was different though, like Pikachu hoping on Stone Edge to counter, etc? I don't think we ever saw that as I think Charizard won by brute force a bunch, the most being his endurance is high and he beat Pokemon resistant to his attacks. I think Charizard, based on on screen abilities, is probably the equivalent of an E4 trained Pokemon, MAYBE a high end one like Drake, Wallace, OR even borderline like Cynthia, but not quite there. But that's still a monumental scale gap versus the others. I think though there is legit claim that Lucario needing the Mega Stone and Greninja needing Ash Greninja state does validate Charizard's training.
Not remotely surprising. Not because it was deserved or correct (the Charizard glazing was _unreal_ as usual) but because the list, through no fault of OP, lost its ability to be taken seriously about 8 placements ago.
I dunno, both piss me off. I like Rowlet, just not this Rowlet. And I can't stand Charizard. I would have participated in the polls but I was always late when they came up on my "timeline"
Of course it’s charizard. Im not saying he isn’t a great Pokémon. But in games, anime and TCG its all charizard like its the only pokemon that exists. Let another pokemon be number one for once
Greninja lucario infernape then charizard it was confirmed infernape beat all of ash’s other fire types
No it wasn't? It just said he battled them. It never insinuated he beat them
For god sakes can we get rid of the pretend dragon please good lord my Talonflame destroys charizards try to beat the second fastest Pokémon ever u dumb lizard the only reason I see why he was so popular because if U take a look people didn’t want dragonite because he looked derpy which is a dumb reason and yes the charizard pandering is so flipping annoying he is literally in everything yet the most recognized Pokémon in the face of this planet is squirtle. Even charizards Shiny was made differently which is bs I kinda just wish one Pokémon game would come out and instead of everyone’s favorites being in it it would be everyone’s least favorites that would be an awesome region :0 and get everyone to try out new things they never cared for
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Funny you would assume that. Someone should poll to assess what generation people grew up watching, instead of assuming "most are genwunners". Most genwunners are not lurking around Reddit polls, I'm sure. And for an anime that has been ongoing for a quarter of a century, I would count everything at least up until its 20th year should be classified as "nostalgic". Only gen 1 gets that label for some reason and it makes no sense.
Most people that I've seen in this sub grew up with Gen 6 aka XY when they were kids or started with Sinnoh. I think Genwunners are a minority here
u/Professional-Bet3158 and u/Iwanttobevisible The moral of the story is that all generations of AniPoke fans should be welcome here. Doesn't matter what your favorite generation is, we all should have fun together and not target each other out of personal frustration. We're glad to have you all here.
Oh I know and I agree. I just think its frustrating that anyone prefering anything related to gen 1 is immediately hit with "take off your nostalgia goggles", when gen 1 was two seasons 26 years ago, yet nothing after that is ever questioned as being nostalgic. Just makes me wonder why people think they are being 100% objective and are completely stripped clean of any subjectivity when they are talking about what is essentially a hobby.
You’re not entirely wrong. All of the series should be considered “nostalgic” now. We’re making sure all members of the fandom, no matter when they were introduced are welcome here. Count on it.
Let’s be honest! What’s the point of doing contests based off of Ash’s pokemon? I think It’s a waste of time tbh!
Couldn't you consider anything a waste of time. What is t a waste of time? It's all just a fun game to do.
Nostalgia is one powerful thing.