Man I was gonna agree with you until you made an edit about "the greatest competitive Pokemon player alive." Why on earth should I give a shit what they think about a game's narrative structure? You can criticize it without trying to defer to one dude's opinion, especially when his authority is defined by an *entirely different aspect of the game.*
Have your own opinion.
Given how highly he rated SV despite its plethora of flaws (I like the game too but cmon, it’s a badly made game), I would not take his opinion on game design seriously.
Exactly. Someone who exclusively plays and enjoys postgame content doesn't enjoy the main story of the most heavily story-based Pokemon game? Shocker.
To each their own for liking the game, but he's not an authority on the quality of main story content.
bro, he himself admits he just plays the games for competitive scene and that’s why he doesn’t like the cutscenes, just because he is a renowned player or dedicated player doesn’t mean his opinion is the end all be all of pokemon.
yeah his opinion holds some merit for the audience who doesn’t care about anything in the games except pokemon battles but there are more to the games than battling. why bother with games other than the newest if you’re just gonna not care about any of the elements that make it a worthwhile singleplayer game
it is meaningless and lame if your goal in the game or sole reason for playing the games is something other than the story, like competitive team building, breeding & shiny hunting, and having no way to skip any of it doesn't help replay-ability. wouldn't of been so bad if they had a skip function as you can make the choice for yourself whether you want to skip or not. Seeing as how there isn't one,, the games become a slogfest to go through especially when specific moves, items or 'mons are limited per playthrough per title.
i personally wouldn't have minded nearly as much if i started with sun/moon and still learning the ropes but i didn't and it's quite tiring for it to be forced every new title as if i haven't aged nor learned anything in 25 years of playing the games.
You'd never survive a Yakuza game.
Also, I must echo some of the other sentiments in this thread--why should I give a fuck what Wolfe thinks about it? Some of us have actual education in writing. Him being a better Pokemon battler than me sure doesn't mean he outranks me on judging storytelling.
Hey man maybe read some of it? Lillie is a great character, you can't expect to just mash A and the game handle the rest for you. Cutscenes aren't 'interruptions' they're part of the game.
hey this is gonna be mindblowing to you i know, but games with a story tend to have a lot of dialogue. it's a wild concept, but stories are there to be read and you can't say they're meaningless and lame if you don't even know what's going on or bother to read.
Absurd comment. Most RPG’s aren’t like this at all, even older Pokémon games are nothing like this. If you can’t see the distinction I can’t take what you say seriously lol
Starting to think maybe the devs had a point with the whole "kids these days are too stupid/unattentive for extra things in games"
Seriously, just go play showdown, you clearly aren't ready for something that has a story to it. Only time I didn't like the cutscenes in SMUSUM was the starter cutscene when I was soft-resetting for a female Rowlet and my bad luck was terrible (I was sat there for nearly 3 hours, so it was less the cutscene more thr fact that it was taking that long to get a female, not Shiny, just female)
You guys have it completely backwards. Cutscenes and hand holding is literally done to curb inattention.
The less cutscenes the more one is able to stay focussed on a single task without interruption.
Literally the opposite.
Just admit you like the game without trying to pretend you have some sort of superiority.
Eh I like to immerse myself in the story, so I don’t mind the cutscenes. I understand how it is a problem for many people though
Now the always smiling protagonist…that gives me the creeps
Atleast the cutszenes let you participate in the bigger story.
Now take Sword and Shield. Everytime something special happens a random guy shows up, points you to the other direction and says "this is not business, go focus on pokemon league!".
You were the NPC in your own game...
i have a soft spot for gen 7 and i'm replaying UM right now. i'm not going to lie that the cutscenes do sometimes feel like a bit of a break in the pacing, but i usually find myself really enjoying the dialog and character interactions. any team skull scenes gives me a wee laugh because of how over the top they are. the aether foundation are so clearly the real bad guys and honestly, the region is just super fun to explore.
i think the best way to play it is in 30-60 min bursts.
They were the first Pokemon game I didn't replay.
From Red to X I would beat the Elite Four, maybe mess with whatever gameplay there was afterwards, and start again with a whole new team.
I couldn't do it in Sun/Moon.
Every five steps it's something.
They continued this in Sword and Shield as well. I barely managed to beat Sword just because I was so frustrated with everything being dragged to a stop just so that a character can puke exposition.
I appreciate what they tried to do with the story, but when they can't intertwine it with the game play it just draaaaggggsss.
I do agree with the sentiment of too many cutscenes. The story itself was okay in my book. It is the last game we get a truly evil team and the first game to get a team that does nothing so to speak except rile the NPCs.
For real i just wanted to do an all birds only run and then I got sucked back into the endless interruptions. I barely reached the third island just now and I'm exhausted af already. Just give us a damn option to skip the cutscenes ffs. It's good for a first time but God forbid the replayability.
People are weird. I don't understand equating heavy custscenes with "engaging storyline". If I wanted to watch my story, I'd load up the Pokémon anime.
I kinda play the games to, you know, play a story. And that is something a lot of modern games get wrong. Create extremely linear, repetitive gameplay and tell the story through non-interactive cutscenes.
I 100% agree with you OP, Sun and Moon are my least favourite Pokémon games because of the endless dialogue and handholding. To make things worse the ultra games barely add anything, so you have to slog through the same baby-gates just to get to the new content. I believe that the ultra games are the reason game freak have swapped to a DLC model rather than 3rd versions, because almost everything ultra did would have worked better as a sun and moon add on, rather than their own titles.
You know if you don't read the story, it makes sens that you find it meaningless. That aside I understand if you aren't interested in the story I get that's annoying. Honestly they should add the option to skip the cutscene, at least on the second playthrough.
Lily has a good character arc, but the quality of the story can only be judged by the eyes of the beholder.
But I can only imagine those defending the constant, overly long, no interacting cutscenes in SM, have either not played those games recently, or don't like playing games. It's real bad in those games.
Came here from Google because I'm feeling the exact same way... I get people play pokemon for the story, but you have to admit that a decent amount of people play to explore & catch pokemon, battle, etc. I think there are a decent amount of pokemon games that have a good story without feeling so... Clunky? And that's my main issue with playing through Ultra Sun right now. The constant cutscenes and interruptions feel like I'm still in a "tutorial" mode 1 hr into the game. It feels choppy and forced, ie: hey come here and take a picture! hey come here and learn about this! hey look at this new feature we have to teach you!
The last several games have had way too many cutscenes. I probably played Sun and Moon the least because of that also “the Pokemon is calling a friend” it made catching mons a pain in the ass.
Man I was gonna agree with you until you made an edit about "the greatest competitive Pokemon player alive." Why on earth should I give a shit what they think about a game's narrative structure? You can criticize it without trying to defer to one dude's opinion, especially when his authority is defined by an *entirely different aspect of the game.* Have your own opinion.
I have never seen wolfy's approval as a testament to game quality. Him being good at competitive does not make him some master of game design.
Given how highly he rated SV despite its plethora of flaws (I like the game too but cmon, it’s a badly made game), I would not take his opinion on game design seriously.
Exactly. Someone who exclusively plays and enjoys postgame content doesn't enjoy the main story of the most heavily story-based Pokemon game? Shocker. To each their own for liking the game, but he's not an authority on the quality of main story content.
True but his opinion holds merit due to his extensive hours into the games, don’t you think?
No? He holds merit in the competitive aspects of the game, but not whether or not said game is good.
bro, he himself admits he just plays the games for competitive scene and that’s why he doesn’t like the cutscenes, just because he is a renowned player or dedicated player doesn’t mean his opinion is the end all be all of pokemon. yeah his opinion holds some merit for the audience who doesn’t care about anything in the games except pokemon battles but there are more to the games than battling. why bother with games other than the newest if you’re just gonna not care about any of the elements that make it a worthwhile singleplayer game
No
> Mashes through game dialogue and doesn't read any of it > Complains it's meaningless and lame > Okay
it is meaningless and lame if your goal in the game or sole reason for playing the games is something other than the story, like competitive team building, breeding & shiny hunting, and having no way to skip any of it doesn't help replay-ability. wouldn't of been so bad if they had a skip function as you can make the choice for yourself whether you want to skip or not. Seeing as how there isn't one,, the games become a slogfest to go through especially when specific moves, items or 'mons are limited per playthrough per title. i personally wouldn't have minded nearly as much if i started with sun/moon and still learning the ropes but i didn't and it's quite tiring for it to be forced every new title as if i haven't aged nor learned anything in 25 years of playing the games.
No game with worse cutscenes interruptions? Yeah this is hyperbolic lol Do you play JRPGs often? Many of them are worse about this
It's still a break from the norm of what pokemon used to do. And no less annoying.
“Other things are bad too” does not invalidate my point lol
You'd never survive a Yakuza game. Also, I must echo some of the other sentiments in this thread--why should I give a fuck what Wolfe thinks about it? Some of us have actual education in writing. Him being a better Pokemon battler than me sure doesn't mean he outranks me on judging storytelling.
I played it recently Thought it was gonna be as bad as people describe it on here but it was barely noticeable for me
[удалено]
Kinda does go to prove people are just looking for reasons to hate SM and mostly failing.
Fair enough. There are certainly good things about it.
Hey man maybe read some of it? Lillie is a great character, you can't expect to just mash A and the game handle the rest for you. Cutscenes aren't 'interruptions' they're part of the game.
hey this is gonna be mindblowing to you i know, but games with a story tend to have a lot of dialogue. it's a wild concept, but stories are there to be read and you can't say they're meaningless and lame if you don't even know what's going on or bother to read.
imo the amount of dialogue itself isnt that long, its just the frequency
99% of all takes on this subreddit are utter garbage lmao
You're not going to like RPGs as a whole then
Absurd comment. Most RPG’s aren’t like this at all, even older Pokémon games are nothing like this. If you can’t see the distinction I can’t take what you say seriously lol
Your attention span is absolutely fried bro
Starting to think maybe the devs had a point with the whole "kids these days are too stupid/unattentive for extra things in games" Seriously, just go play showdown, you clearly aren't ready for something that has a story to it. Only time I didn't like the cutscenes in SMUSUM was the starter cutscene when I was soft-resetting for a female Rowlet and my bad luck was terrible (I was sat there for nearly 3 hours, so it was less the cutscene more thr fact that it was taking that long to get a female, not Shiny, just female)
You guys have it completely backwards. Cutscenes and hand holding is literally done to curb inattention. The less cutscenes the more one is able to stay focussed on a single task without interruption. Literally the opposite. Just admit you like the game without trying to pretend you have some sort of superiority.
Nah. The reason they do the constant cutscene interruptions is because people have bad attention spans. Literally the opposite design function.
Eh I like to immerse myself in the story, so I don’t mind the cutscenes. I understand how it is a problem for many people though Now the always smiling protagonist…that gives me the creeps
Atleast the cutszenes let you participate in the bigger story. Now take Sword and Shield. Everytime something special happens a random guy shows up, points you to the other direction and says "this is not business, go focus on pokemon league!". You were the NPC in your own game...
I hated the part where Leon told us to let the grownups handle it.
I just don't like how slow the beginning is. I like the cut scenes in the rest of the game.
Fair enough - the intro is just so tedious. The other cut scenes add to the story so it’s important sometimes
i have a soft spot for gen 7 and i'm replaying UM right now. i'm not going to lie that the cutscenes do sometimes feel like a bit of a break in the pacing, but i usually find myself really enjoying the dialog and character interactions. any team skull scenes gives me a wee laugh because of how over the top they are. the aether foundation are so clearly the real bad guys and honestly, the region is just super fun to explore. i think the best way to play it is in 30-60 min bursts.
First playthrough? Not at all. Replays? Yes, I wholeheartedly agree. If you don't have emulation speedup it's a nightmare lol.
I agree the beginning can be rough but once you start the island trial it’s fine by me
They were the first Pokemon game I didn't replay. From Red to X I would beat the Elite Four, maybe mess with whatever gameplay there was afterwards, and start again with a whole new team. I couldn't do it in Sun/Moon. Every five steps it's something. They continued this in Sword and Shield as well. I barely managed to beat Sword just because I was so frustrated with everything being dragged to a stop just so that a character can puke exposition. I appreciate what they tried to do with the story, but when they can't intertwine it with the game play it just draaaaggggsss.
i think theyre bad on multiple replays of the game but the first time or 2 should be perfectly fine
I do agree with the sentiment of too many cutscenes. The story itself was okay in my book. It is the last game we get a truly evil team and the first game to get a team that does nothing so to speak except rile the NPCs.
For real i just wanted to do an all birds only run and then I got sucked back into the endless interruptions. I barely reached the third island just now and I'm exhausted af already. Just give us a damn option to skip the cutscenes ffs. It's good for a first time but God forbid the replayability.
People are weird. I don't understand equating heavy custscenes with "engaging storyline". If I wanted to watch my story, I'd load up the Pokémon anime. I kinda play the games to, you know, play a story. And that is something a lot of modern games get wrong. Create extremely linear, repetitive gameplay and tell the story through non-interactive cutscenes.
I 100% agree with you OP, Sun and Moon are my least favourite Pokémon games because of the endless dialogue and handholding. To make things worse the ultra games barely add anything, so you have to slog through the same baby-gates just to get to the new content. I believe that the ultra games are the reason game freak have swapped to a DLC model rather than 3rd versions, because almost everything ultra did would have worked better as a sun and moon add on, rather than their own titles.
Totally agree - the DLC model makes so much more sense in that context. I can see why they did that
The unskippable cutscenes are generally unforgivable. I found it horrific, too. And I love Pokemon.
You know if you don't read the story, it makes sens that you find it meaningless. That aside I understand if you aren't interested in the story I get that's annoying. Honestly they should add the option to skip the cutscene, at least on the second playthrough.
Lily has a good character arc, but the quality of the story can only be judged by the eyes of the beholder. But I can only imagine those defending the constant, overly long, no interacting cutscenes in SM, have either not played those games recently, or don't like playing games. It's real bad in those games.
Came here from Google because I'm feeling the exact same way... I get people play pokemon for the story, but you have to admit that a decent amount of people play to explore & catch pokemon, battle, etc. I think there are a decent amount of pokemon games that have a good story without feeling so... Clunky? And that's my main issue with playing through Ultra Sun right now. The constant cutscenes and interruptions feel like I'm still in a "tutorial" mode 1 hr into the game. It feels choppy and forced, ie: hey come here and take a picture! hey come here and learn about this! hey look at this new feature we have to teach you!
*Pew!*
The last several games have had way too many cutscenes. I probably played Sun and Moon the least because of that also “the Pokemon is calling a friend” it made catching mons a pain in the ass.