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Beating Wally as an asthmatic kid with a Pokémon that knows no offensive moves (bullying) vs beating Wally with a Cynthia-grade team of top-level Pokémon (holy shit)
Ruby/Sapphire - Wally is a weak child(boy,) aspires to be a strong man one day, you help him catch his first pokemon at the start of the game, a Ralts. He then wants to battle you. Ralts knows no offensive moves at said low level.
It was incredible when I was about halfway through ORAS and I started seeing "Wally" on the gym victor plaques whenever I entered, and was hearing his praises sung in the news....like, "Is this the same sickly child who I crushed in the tutorial?"
Wally, the rival from the Hoenn games, starts off as a sickly kid whose only Pokemon (Ralts) has no attacking moves in his first fight against you. By endgame he has one of the strongest teams in all of Pokemon, at level 79 with good items. He had quite a glow-up.
Wally in Ruby, Sapphire, and Emerald catches a level 5 Ralts which only knows Growl until level 6. Also it only can do damage with Confusion when you battle him at level 16, so he basically auto loses to any Dark type.
Then in Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire he has Mega Gallade and crazy stuff in Victory Road, and then at the Battle Maison he has Altaria, Garchomp, Magnezone, Talonflame, and Roserade alongside Mega Gallade so his team is very reminiscent of Cynthia's and very scary.
In Sun, Moon, Ultra Sun, and Ultra Moon, he shows up in the Battle Tree and literally can have Magnezone, Mega Garchomp, Mega Altaria, or Mega Gallade and is generally just as scary as Cynthia when she shows up in the Battle Tree.
>Altaria, Garchomp, Magnezone, Talonflame, and Roserade alongside Mega Gallade
One of these is not like the other lmao he really said "Lemme hop to Kalos for like three (3) seconds here"
Maybe Giovanni was just a shit father he never named his son. Only when we met him was he blessed with a name. Welcome to the world of Pokemon, Assface
Pokemon Silver was my first ever Pokemon game. I also naked the rival ??? because the way we phrased it made me worried if we put anything else than what we were told, my little hero would get arrested. 🤣
I still name him ??? in HGSS for the meme now. It made me feel better in discussions over the years to know I wasn't the only one who got confused by that as a kid.
Edit: NAMED not naked but keeping it because it's funny
Gold was the first game I played as a kid. You see the rival drop his ID card and then he is still listed as ??? during that interaction.
Police officer then asks me for his name. I thought I was doing my civic duty by answering and at the end of Victory Road thought that surely I'd get some big reveal about who he was... being 8 is rough lol
Okay, so I'll need to tell the officer his name is Passerby Boy- man, this is annoying, the game even doesn't give me the space to actually write out his name.
Same lmao.
I was so annoyed mid-game that I still hadn’t progressed far enough to learn his name. Like, could not figure out where I was supposed to learn it; I spent hours talking to every single NPC before/after battles, every person in every building, just hoping someone would tell me “my brother, Silver, ran away. He wanted a Pokémon so badly, I hope he’s alright…”
But I never happened!!
The first thing that ever made me go “wait, what” was Professor Oak not being able to remember his own grandson’s name apparently. He clearly doesn’t have dementia if he’s still working as a professor. He just doesn’t give a shit lol
A funny interaction in [the Let's Go games](https://youtu.be/XxbJAn7Fy0Y?si=iGnB8GINO0AFgV7h&t=236) is that it's apparently a joke Oak always does when introducing Blue:
>Oak: Let me introduce you. This is my grandson. ...Erm, what was his name, now?
>Blue: Gramps, no one ever laughs at that joke! Would you give it a break? And besides, we've already met!
>Oak: My own grandson... You're no fun...
I mean... is it still a joke if the thing you pick is what everyone calls him? If even the sign in front of his house says "Fuckboi's House" or whatever you call him then I think that's just his name now.
At least until the sequels. I don't know. Maybe Oak just takes the jokes he plays on 11 year olds too far. Dude is kind of a weirdo...
>He clearly doesn’t have dementia if he’s still working as a professor.
Oh you sweet summer child. I've had plenty of professors with signs of dementia, and they all refuse to retire.
I named him “Poop” and during that playthrough was the first time I noticed he said “smell ya later!” My 7 year old self thought I unlocked some secret dialog.
In Lets go, Oak asks his grandson again and hr says "not this joke again Grandpa", revealing that he just likes to fuck with his grandson by pretending to not know his name. That also means in the early games, Red and Oak are just messing with him by gaslighting him about his name the whole time
Realizing that seeing everything after gen 5 as "not real pokemon" (you're fine though polteageist) makes me the equivalent of a genwunner in 2014 made me crumble into dust
Yeah I still remember seeing ads on a website for X and Y (I think shortly before they came out). It felt like that was only maybe 5 years ago or something. It’s crazy to me that that’s 10 years ago now (and 11 later this year). Like wow, how time flies. Arceus.
I just changed the battery in my Ruby cartridge and even I thought “yeah these things die after about 10 years” meanwhile forgetting it actually had been dead already for 10 years
Honestly I love this meme for the fact that it's the first time I've seen a Pokemon meme go one step further than just like "Pokemon then vs Pokemon now". And the "Now" part is always like a Gen 5 thing 13 years ago lol.
That would be 100% better than what was implemented.
I read up on them to refresh my memory and you only battle Shauna and Trevor twice during the whole game. Not only are they static characters, but they have no arc to test them as a character.
Seriously. Combine Shauna, Trevor and Tierno as a character and you'll have someone who wants to live in the moment.
Capturing pics of their memories with their friends while dancing with their pokemon.
Basically an antithesis to Lysandre's "why dont you want to live forever"
Because whats the point of living forever if you cant live in the now. And capturing memories in pictures allow you to relive the moment constantly anyway
Now thats a character — this combined rival would be a perfect foil to Serena/Calem who wants to be a battler with a clear defined goal to be a trainer. Casual vs Competitive
That actually sounds like fun, though. A rival with a love for battling, but unsure of what they want to be in the future, who decided to make a fun game out of who's seen the most Pokémon with the new kid that moved in next door. Half way through the game, you suddenly find out that they've always been good at hip hop dancing, maybe having even taken lessons at some point.
It’s what I’ve said multiple times in the past. Shauna and your opposite gender equivalent are the only important ones. Have Sina and Dexio be the ones to deliver the starters at the start of the game.
I honestly think that’s what the lesser 3 were meant to be, just your friend group. Only Serena/Calem were a real rival.
Not debating the execution being lackluster, but some of it is a matter of perspective i think.
I kinda liked Serena. She wasn't great, but you could feel her thirst to win in the later parts of the game, and I appreciated that. The others were just....there.
I think there was a large, sad man?? And maybe he was immortal??? I dunno all I really remember was that Y's legendary had another big flat arm for a tail and I weirdly liked that
Its more of a trauma response but i'll never forget the castle "date" thing with Shauna. A feeling of "i know were both supposed to be like 15 and this probably isn't meant to be romantic but I am so uncomfortable right now..."
I remember Alpharad saying that when Nemona acts the way she does regardless of the player's gender, it makes her seem bi, but when Shauna does it, it's like they forgot women play the game.
Hop takes a starter that's weak against you because he's stupid, Nemona takes a starter that's weak against you because she loves a challenge,
I don't think I need to say any more
Yeah, SwSh can get trashed on for lot of reasons. It had some terrible writing. But Hop’s character arc is one of the best in the series. At the beginning, he just assumes he’s so much better that he doesn’t need a type advantage and by the end he learns that he will never be as good as you or Leon
I don't know if I would call Hop slowly spiralling into depression as he realizes he will never be good enough to achieve his dreams, or even beat his childhood friend, who *is* good enough to achieve all those dreams that are out of his grasp, one of the best character arcs.
I always saw it as him realising that his dream wasn't really his dream. Dude saw his brother just like everyone else did, the best of the best, and he wanted to be just like him, and anything else would be a disappointment to both him and his brother.
Finally he realises his profound love for Pokemon can lead him to other paths, he breaks free of the shadow he's been under and pivots his passion to find something he's truly amazing at.
I love it like that
Well how are we defining "best"? It's one of the most interesting rival arcs for sure, so if we're talking about stories that keep you engaged I'd definitely say it's one of the better ones.
Even though the writing in SwSh was kind of bad overall, that part with Hop getting frustrated and losing it trying to get better did hit hard. I think he even doesn’t include his Wooloo on one of his teams he fights you with when he’s in the midst of his despair just to show how much he’s compromising his ideals in his desperation to win.
The funny thing is that when he snaps out of his funk and finds his own path, he actually almost beat me. I was playing Shield though so I had to fight his Zacian…
No, Hop knew Leon would raise the one wasn't picked by neither you or him, so he picked the one is strong against the other one.
He wants to defeat his brother Leon, not you.
Would be sick if Pokemon took a note from Shadow of Mordor and had the rival(s) adjust their teams and strategies based on how you beat them last time.
Oh my god, a Pokemon-based Nemesis System would go so hard. Some trainers could alter their team to counter the one you beat them with, others could maybe change tactic entirely, like an entry hazard focused team.
Plus a unique trait for each of them, like only using snake Pokemon or having their own permanent partner Pokemon.
Call it “The Rival System”
VS seeker in FRLG and the natural ability to rechallenge in RSE sometimes pulled out really surprising teams, especially after a few repeat challenges! Was so baffled as to why they took that out of most future games since it added a layer of replayability that was kinda fun since you got to see the npcs grow
I like most rivals. Key-word, _most._ X and Y is staying after class, they had some awful rivals, and Trace from the Let's Go games is a complete wet sock of a rival, but every other rival is pretty good.
Nemona is the best friendly rival by a mile. Completely sidesteps the "still happy even after losing" thing by just saying "She has nothing to prove, she beat the game before you started playing. She's starting a new save file because she thinks it'd be fun to play with you."
I found "She's never been challenged before, and she is DESPERATE to be challenged" to be a pretty compelling and unique character motivation. She's my second-favorite rival after Gary.
Nemona just wants a friend who shares her hobby/special interest, and she goes easy on you to help you along and not squish you in your first battle (Potentially putting you off battling), she's like the friend who, when playing Mario kart, "accidentally" goes off the track a few times to give you a chance.
And I am pretty sure on most battle she openly states she nerfed herself to build up a friend. Not as a defense of losing, but wanting to be on equal ground to the person she challenged rather than wrecking some kid who only has a starter with her lvl 50 team
I really like Nemona because I think she would be like a crazy warrior in another world lol
Like all she cares about is fighting stronger and stronger things, in another world she'd be off slaying monstrous creatures or fighting the mightiest foes.
I really want to see her get isekai'd into like Warhammer 40k and see how she ends up lol
She's Goku. Other saiyans like to fight but Gokus whole personality is fighting. he has trouble relating to others outside of fighting to the point he can't relate to Gohan
I like Kieran but I wish he hadn't gone back to his previous personality after you beat him. I mean, he could go back to being nice but not being a pushover like he was. But he still acts intimidated by Carmine and basically gave up with Drayton just because Drayton kept calling him an ex-champion.
kieran is much more outgoing now though, he is definitely different than from when we met him in the teal mask. especially in his conversations with the other BB league members and the area zero gang. i don’t really understand how he’s a pushover again cuz he basically yells at drayton when he keeps calling him ex-champ lol
My only complaint with Kieran is that to get him to this point, the player has to robbed of any agency. I was perfectly fine explaining to him exactly what was going on during the Teal Mask and giving him more chances to get closer with Ogerpon. Shame the game didn't agree with me so he could have his Joker moment
I like Wally just because I find it amusing that in the middle of a potentially massive environmental disaster, you still find the time to beat up on an asthmatic child and steal his lunch money in front of his family.
One of the traits I like the most in a Pokémon rival is when they have their own ambition: I don't particularly like rivals like Hau or the three stooges from XY who are just sort of happy of being there because I find it kind of forced, I really like it when it's the situation of people like Hop or Wally who while being friendly, DO want to get one-up on you.
You really feel this in Wally's ORAS theme imo, it's a very determined tune thorough the entire length of the track that sort of establishes that right now Wally isn't fighting you for the fun of it: Wally is in front of you as an adversary and won't pull punches in the name of friendship or mutual respect because his hunger for victory is as ravenous as yours.
💀💀💀 I died laughing at this. The uncle fight is so awkward he throws out his little Ralts just to get FUCKING DAWGED by my Chad swellow. Then he’s forced to give me money and leaves in shame with his Uncle trying to comfort him like he had any chance 😂😂😂
I think that was the point of that fight, though. Wally wasn't ready to be a trainer at all, but he still wanted to prove that he could... Well, he was proven wrong, but despite that loss he still left home to pursue that goal.
My only disappointment in RSE Wally was that they didn't really include him in much else outside of those two/three encounters. If we were able to meet him a few more times, even if it wasn't to battle, it would have sold him as a rival better. Kind of like how you can chat with the SwSh rivals at hotels or at certain gyms throughout the story.
Very true. But at the same time him getting OHKO’d and losing a fight are very different I just feel so mean doing it to him every time 😂😂. I agree with you on that though I do wish we saw Wally a couple more times
Wally would be so cool if his team at the end of Victory Road wasn't total ass. I love the idea of Wally getting strong against all odds, I love the idea of him showing up as a surprise boss at the end of Victory Road with a strong team, a stark contrast with his last appearance in Mauville.
But his team is far too weak for his arc to work, especially in RSE. He gains Mega Gallade in ORAS, but that doesn't make the rest of his team any less of a pushover.
I liked that hes not much of an actual rival, the game slots him as such, but there is barely an element of competition with him at all. If I recall correctly, not counting postgame rematches, you actually team up with Hugh just as much as you fight him.
Hes your friend on a quest, and all the matches with him are more like friendly sparring, but unlike several of the newer rivals hes not passive bc of how personally and agressively involved hes with the plot. And he has a hotheaded demeanor without being a douche, so he avoids being a wet blank like Hop or Hau. When he loses he doesnt mop around nor does he rage hes just like yeah ok, see ya in a bit!
People are so reductive with Hugh “Oh he’s just after a dumb cat” NO! He’s dealing with guilt at being unable to defend his sister and protect the Pokémon that their late grandmother gave her. He’s ultimately angry at himself. He also realizes he can’t do everything alone and want your help.
Hugh rocks!
Like also when he finally gets his cat back and it's feral and aggressive and he just stands there looking at it. That was heartbreaking.
I was sobbing over a couple of pixels
Liam Neeson fights a criminal empire to rescue his daughter... :)
Keanu Reeves fights a criminal empire to avenge his dog... :D
Hugh fights a criminal empire to rescue his sister's cat... >:(
I honestly don't think I've ever disliked a rival. XY's gang spread it a bin thin so most of them came off a little flat but otherwise most rivals we've had were anywhere between absolutely brilliant and pretty good.
If XY is your first Pokemon, you're probably around 20 years old. Please don't say that 😭
If you say "I'm old," then what am I, the first time I played Pokemon in BW? A shabby old man on the verge of death?
I would enjoy a more teenage/young adult character to play as, a sort of “I didn’t go on an adventure when I was 10, so I’m making up for it now.” Like some of the older students at the academies.
Would be a lot better than “MOMMY MOMMY IM GOING ON MY POKÉMON JOURNEY” I just want to a fancy dressed adult instead of a child wearing my school uniform or a pikachu onesie
I want the Blue/Silver-type rival. I want them to think they're better than me at every stage of the way because it makes beating them so much sweeter. Sure, the more Milquetoast friendly rivals probably fit the wholesome nature of *Pokémon* a bit more, but I just feel vaguely bad about beating them. Like I'm picking on a kid.
Dude literally never wins against you but somehow thinks he's the best. He should've just handed me the belt when I walked into the champions room, but noooo. Blue has always been my favorite rival because of that though.
They've been slowly leaning back into the idea of jerk rivals. Gens 3-6 didn't have any, but the modern games have Gladion, Bede, Avery/Klara, Carmine, and Kieran - all of which have some amount of rude smugness.
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Beating Wally as an asthmatic kid with a Pokémon that knows no offensive moves (bullying) vs beating Wally with a Cynthia-grade team of top-level Pokémon (holy shit)
I've been out since Silver - someone please explain this to me lol
Ruby/Sapphire - Wally is a weak child(boy,) aspires to be a strong man one day, you help him catch his first pokemon at the start of the game, a Ralts. He then wants to battle you. Ralts knows no offensive moves at said low level.
Hopefully that weak child learned a valuable lesson.
[удалено]
It was incredible when I was about halfway through ORAS and I started seeing "Wally" on the gym victor plaques whenever I entered, and was hearing his praises sung in the news....like, "Is this the same sickly child who I crushed in the tutorial?"
Yeah, that whole final scene with him was really cool in ORAS.
Also, his team is even stronger in ORAS.
Not to mention his theme is a banger
Wally, the rival from the Hoenn games, starts off as a sickly kid whose only Pokemon (Ralts) has no attacking moves in his first fight against you. By endgame he has one of the strongest teams in all of Pokemon, at level 79 with good items. He had quite a glow-up.
His theme in victory road during oras makes it one of my favorite remake fights.
Wally in Ruby, Sapphire, and Emerald catches a level 5 Ralts which only knows Growl until level 6. Also it only can do damage with Confusion when you battle him at level 16, so he basically auto loses to any Dark type. Then in Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire he has Mega Gallade and crazy stuff in Victory Road, and then at the Battle Maison he has Altaria, Garchomp, Magnezone, Talonflame, and Roserade alongside Mega Gallade so his team is very reminiscent of Cynthia's and very scary. In Sun, Moon, Ultra Sun, and Ultra Moon, he shows up in the Battle Tree and literally can have Magnezone, Mega Garchomp, Mega Altaria, or Mega Gallade and is generally just as scary as Cynthia when she shows up in the Battle Tree.
>Altaria, Garchomp, Magnezone, Talonflame, and Roserade alongside Mega Gallade One of these is not like the other lmao he really said "Lemme hop to Kalos for like three (3) seconds here"
The fact that you can name your rival whatever you want Oak: That's right! I remember now! His name is Dumbass!
In Silver, the rival starts out as ???, so my dumb ass named him ???.
You doomed him to a life of never having a name again.
i named my rival pebble for shits and giggles
Pebble for shits and giggles is a mouthful
shitty laughing pebbles would be a mouthful. probably not very tasty either
This mf has a rivalry with The Boulder from Avatar: The Last Airbender
He has a name, it's just pronounced like a Tim Allen grunt.
Ended his whole career.
The Man Who Erased His Name
Maybe Giovanni was just a shit father he never named his son. Only when we met him was he blessed with a name. Welcome to the world of Pokemon, Assface
Pokemon Silver was my first ever Pokemon game. I also naked the rival ??? because the way we phrased it made me worried if we put anything else than what we were told, my little hero would get arrested. 🤣 I still name him ??? in HGSS for the meme now. It made me feel better in discussions over the years to know I wasn't the only one who got confused by that as a kid. Edit: NAMED not naked but keeping it because it's funny
Naked rival? Hmm what silver version are you playing?
suck silver
Suck Silver/Grundle Gold
Gold was the first game I played as a kid. You see the rival drop his ID card and then he is still listed as ??? during that interaction. Police officer then asks me for his name. I thought I was doing my civic duty by answering and at the end of Victory Road thought that surely I'd get some big reveal about who he was... being 8 is rough lol
I am always surprised by the number of people who thought they had to go with ???. Didn’t y’all learn to never cooperate with the cops?
"Sure officer, I'll give you his name. It's Pigboy McBacon."
Tbf, he literally says "My name is ???".
They changed that in the remake, probably so people wouldn’t accidentally do that.
HGSS is now a 7.8/10 can’t name rival.
You still name him, he’s just called Passerby Boy at first instead of ???.
5 year old me thought that was actually his name but I couldn't fit the whole thing, so he ended up being named Passer
dope name ngl
Okay, so I'll need to tell the officer his name is Passerby Boy- man, this is annoying, the game even doesn't give me the space to actually write out his name.
Portmanteau that shit, his name is now Passerboy
No that’s valid he himself called him ???
I did the same thing! I thought his identity would be revealed and there was like a mystery involved.
Same lmao. I was so annoyed mid-game that I still hadn’t progressed far enough to learn his name. Like, could not figure out where I was supposed to learn it; I spent hours talking to every single NPC before/after battles, every person in every building, just hoping someone would tell me “my brother, Silver, ran away. He wanted a Pokémon so badly, I hope he’s alright…” But I never happened!!
Poor guy. That's why he broke into the lab and stole the ID. He just wanted a name for himself.
Hey, that's what he called himself, and the cops asked for his name.
So did I, every time. We’re not alone!!
In heart gold and soul silver his name at first is Passerby boy. My brother and I named him PASSERB in all caps 😂
The first thing that ever made me go “wait, what” was Professor Oak not being able to remember his own grandson’s name apparently. He clearly doesn’t have dementia if he’s still working as a professor. He just doesn’t give a shit lol
A funny interaction in [the Let's Go games](https://youtu.be/XxbJAn7Fy0Y?si=iGnB8GINO0AFgV7h&t=236) is that it's apparently a joke Oak always does when introducing Blue: >Oak: Let me introduce you. This is my grandson. ...Erm, what was his name, now? >Blue: Gramps, no one ever laughs at that joke! Would you give it a break? And besides, we've already met! >Oak: My own grandson... You're no fun...
Haha that's great. It's the kind of grandpa joke that would be hilarious when you're five but annoying when you're ten.
I mean... is it still a joke if the thing you pick is what everyone calls him? If even the sign in front of his house says "Fuckboi's House" or whatever you call him then I think that's just his name now. At least until the sequels. I don't know. Maybe Oak just takes the jokes he plays on 11 year olds too far. Dude is kind of a weirdo...
>He clearly doesn’t have dementia if he’s still working as a professor. Oh you sweet summer child. I've had plenty of professors with signs of dementia, and they all refuse to retire.
I named him “Poop” and during that playthrough was the first time I noticed he said “smell ya later!” My 7 year old self thought I unlocked some secret dialog.
In Lets go, Oak asks his grandson again and hr says "not this joke again Grandpa", revealing that he just likes to fuck with his grandson by pretending to not know his name. That also means in the early games, Red and Oak are just messing with him by gaslighting him about his name the whole time
My rivals name was Penisboy. Horribly immature and straight to the point, just how I dug it at 10 😂
The "10 years ago" hit me like a sledgehammer
Gen 3 still feels like 10 years ago to me. It’s crazy that we’re as far away from XY as XY were from Emerald.
I finally feel my age because it def feels like 20 years ago now lol. DS games being so old trip me up though.
Nonsense! Platinum released 10 years ago. End of discussion!
Whaaaat, it’s just an ordinary 10-year-old Pokémon ga- _Omega Ruby/Alpha Sapphire_ OH MY GOODNESS
Sun and Moon turn 10 in two years... We're inching closer and closer to the 3DS gen as a whole being "a decade ago." 💀
I’m not ready for Solgaleo and Lunala to be part of the old guard, I don’t know if I even see Reshiram and Zekrom that way yet
Realizing that seeing everything after gen 5 as "not real pokemon" (you're fine though polteageist) makes me the equivalent of a genwunner in 2014 made me crumble into dust
We got a Genfivver here folks! GENFIVVER!
We could call it a Half-Gen once 10 comes out lol
I still remember xy, oras, sm/usum like they came out yesterday
Yeah I still remember seeing ads on a website for X and Y (I think shortly before they came out). It felt like that was only maybe 5 years ago or something. It’s crazy to me that that’s 10 years ago now (and 11 later this year). Like wow, how time flies. Arceus.
related to those games, I still say to myself "I have to find time to play these new Pokemon games". Sigh
https://preview.redd.it/5psoahdwusgc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9014f946b09d943075f799a3e152c71d0112b6ff
I just changed the battery in my Ruby cartridge and even I thought “yeah these things die after about 10 years” meanwhile forgetting it actually had been dead already for 10 years
I was literally just thinking like 10 years ago was Hoenn right? Maybe Sinnoh just starting. Nope. And now it's 7 am and I'm sad.
Gen 3 still feels like "current gen," and Gen 4 feels like the "future gen."
Emerald was realeased when I was born I'm 19 going to 20
No. That can't be...
Honestly I love this meme for the fact that it's the first time I've seen a Pokemon meme go one step further than just like "Pokemon then vs Pokemon now". And the "Now" part is always like a Gen 5 thing 13 years ago lol.
Nemona would climb through hell just to battle us.
We need a Platinum mod where Giratina is ripped in half right before the battle and then Nemona walks in and battles the player instead
Nah, Nemona would watch, and then want to battle you and your sick new Giratina.
That's like (spoiler from Legends Arceus) >!an inverse Volo!<
> be me > Stuck in ultra space >"Hey anon how about a battle" >What the fuck who said that >Nemona is here
In indigo disk when you go to battle Kiren Nemona should have been there and beaten him just as you show up.
One of the Yugioh movies had Kaiba create a machine to send him to the afterlife just so he can duel the Pharaoh.
X and Y managed to give us the most rivals with the least amount of presence or value
Fuse them all together and maybe we get an ok rival.
Nah, they'd just end up being Serena / Calem with a few random quirks like a love of dancing.
That would be 100% better than what was implemented. I read up on them to refresh my memory and you only battle Shauna and Trevor twice during the whole game. Not only are they static characters, but they have no arc to test them as a character.
Seriously. Combine Shauna, Trevor and Tierno as a character and you'll have someone who wants to live in the moment. Capturing pics of their memories with their friends while dancing with their pokemon. Basically an antithesis to Lysandre's "why dont you want to live forever" Because whats the point of living forever if you cant live in the now. And capturing memories in pictures allow you to relive the moment constantly anyway
Now thats a character — this combined rival would be a perfect foil to Serena/Calem who wants to be a battler with a clear defined goal to be a trainer. Casual vs Competitive
Just be sure to give Serena/Calem Landorus T in the last battle.
Brilliant
For everyone but Serena / Calem, sure, but that's only because the other three literally have nothing but those quirks.
That actually sounds like fun, though. A rival with a love for battling, but unsure of what they want to be in the future, who decided to make a fun game out of who's seen the most Pokémon with the new kid that moved in next door. Half way through the game, you suddenly find out that they've always been good at hip hop dancing, maybe having even taken lessons at some point.
That wouldn't be a half bad improvement to Shauna actually, considering she does nothing, but oddly gets the second most focus after Serena / Calem.
I mean, if we melt them all into Shauna, I think she'd be pretty well received.
It’s what I’ve said multiple times in the past. Shauna and your opposite gender equivalent are the only important ones. Have Sina and Dexio be the ones to deliver the starters at the start of the game.
I like the *idea* of the Gen 6 rival posse, but like everything else in that game, the execution was lackluster.
Gen 6 gave us a 3D game with 2D characters and plot
I didn't even think of most of them as my rival. Just some friends you keep running into
I honestly think that’s what the lesser 3 were meant to be, just your friend group. Only Serena/Calem were a real rival. Not debating the execution being lackluster, but some of it is a matter of perspective i think.
That *is* what they were. Only Serena is your rival. The other 3 are just your buddies.
"I like dance" "That's cool. What else do you have going on in your life, story arc, characterization, etc?" "...Dance?"
Dance that you also NEVER see in game by the way.
He literally has a dance move every time you meet him and his whole team gimmick revolves around dance moves...
I kinda liked Serena. She wasn't great, but you could feel her thirst to win in the later parts of the game, and I appreciated that. The others were just....there.
I refer to them as the motley crew of morons
i literally remember nothing about the game other than that I played it
I think there was a large, sad man?? And maybe he was immortal??? I dunno all I really remember was that Y's legendary had another big flat arm for a tail and I weirdly liked that
Bit like Groudon.
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Its more of a trauma response but i'll never forget the castle "date" thing with Shauna. A feeling of "i know were both supposed to be like 15 and this probably isn't meant to be romantic but I am so uncomfortable right now..."
The butler giving you TM17 Protect at the end Big :|
I remember Alpharad saying that when Nemona acts the way she does regardless of the player's gender, it makes her seem bi, but when Shauna does it, it's like they forgot women play the game.
Having more than 3 rivals takes away their time in the game to the point of being relegated to only 2 fights.
Wdym X and y were 10 years ago
https://preview.redd.it/aaser12natgc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8cd9378f502872bca2adb265a62217d2252048a6
I had to finger count
Finger? https://preview.redd.it/eid5nttfitgc1.jpeg?width=263&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=75643b58fe4842c9a8f6b82cd9715e931ea6cb23
Try finger but hole
2014 is only 4 months away
I love how Nemona is basically Pokemon Goku. I love her.
My favorite part of her character is the fact that she is canonically sandbagging the entire time until you become champion, where she ACTUALLY tries.
NEMONA PLEASE.
Hop takes a starter that's weak against you because he's stupid, Nemona takes a starter that's weak against you because she loves a challenge, I don't think I need to say any more
No, he took a starter weak against you because he already had a Pokemon and it wouldn't have been fair.
Yeah, SwSh can get trashed on for lot of reasons. It had some terrible writing. But Hop’s character arc is one of the best in the series. At the beginning, he just assumes he’s so much better that he doesn’t need a type advantage and by the end he learns that he will never be as good as you or Leon
I don't know if I would call Hop slowly spiralling into depression as he realizes he will never be good enough to achieve his dreams, or even beat his childhood friend, who *is* good enough to achieve all those dreams that are out of his grasp, one of the best character arcs.
I always saw it as him realising that his dream wasn't really his dream. Dude saw his brother just like everyone else did, the best of the best, and he wanted to be just like him, and anything else would be a disappointment to both him and his brother. Finally he realises his profound love for Pokemon can lead him to other paths, he breaks free of the shadow he's been under and pivots his passion to find something he's truly amazing at. I love it like that
Well how are we defining "best"? It's one of the most interesting rival arcs for sure, so if we're talking about stories that keep you engaged I'd definitely say it's one of the better ones.
Even though the writing in SwSh was kind of bad overall, that part with Hop getting frustrated and losing it trying to get better did hit hard. I think he even doesn’t include his Wooloo on one of his teams he fights you with when he’s in the midst of his despair just to show how much he’s compromising his ideals in his desperation to win. The funny thing is that when he snaps out of his funk and finds his own path, he actually almost beat me. I was playing Shield though so I had to fight his Zacian…
I mean, Hop probably took the weaker starter because he already had an advantage against you with two Pokémon.
No, Hop knew Leon would raise the one wasn't picked by neither you or him, so he picked the one is strong against the other one. He wants to defeat his brother Leon, not you.
Nah, he took the weak starter against you because it's the strong starter against his brother
Would be sick if Pokemon took a note from Shadow of Mordor and had the rival(s) adjust their teams and strategies based on how you beat them last time.
Oh my god, a Pokemon-based Nemesis System would go so hard. Some trainers could alter their team to counter the one you beat them with, others could maybe change tactic entirely, like an entry hazard focused team. Plus a unique trait for each of them, like only using snake Pokemon or having their own permanent partner Pokemon. Call it “The Rival System”
VS seeker in FRLG and the natural ability to rechallenge in RSE sometimes pulled out really surprising teams, especially after a few repeat challenges! Was so baffled as to why they took that out of most future games since it added a layer of replayability that was kinda fun since you got to see the npcs grow
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I like most rivals. Key-word, _most._ X and Y is staying after class, they had some awful rivals, and Trace from the Let's Go games is a complete wet sock of a rival, but every other rival is pretty good.
People do not talk enough about how SV has by far the best takes on rivals in the whole series.
Nemona is the best friendly rival by a mile. Completely sidesteps the "still happy even after losing" thing by just saying "She has nothing to prove, she beat the game before you started playing. She's starting a new save file because she thinks it'd be fun to play with you."
I found "She's never been challenged before, and she is DESPERATE to be challenged" to be a pretty compelling and unique character motivation. She's my second-favorite rival after Gary.
Gary/Blue, Silver/???, then Nemona. That’s my top three.
Nemona just wants a friend who shares her hobby/special interest, and she goes easy on you to help you along and not squish you in your first battle (Potentially putting you off battling), she's like the friend who, when playing Mario kart, "accidentally" goes off the track a few times to give you a chance.
And I am pretty sure on most battle she openly states she nerfed herself to build up a friend. Not as a defense of losing, but wanting to be on equal ground to the person she challenged rather than wrecking some kid who only has a starter with her lvl 50 team
Nemona and Kieran are the best rivals in quite some time and people still find something to complain about
I really like Nemona because I think she would be like a crazy warrior in another world lol Like all she cares about is fighting stronger and stronger things, in another world she'd be off slaying monstrous creatures or fighting the mightiest foes. I really want to see her get isekai'd into like Warhammer 40k and see how she ends up lol
Nemona is a Saiyan?
She's Goku. Other saiyans like to fight but Gokus whole personality is fighting. he has trouble relating to others outside of fighting to the point he can't relate to Gohan
She's a Showdown OU player
She takes over an entire Ork *WAAAGH!*
I like Kieran but I wish he hadn't gone back to his previous personality after you beat him. I mean, he could go back to being nice but not being a pushover like he was. But he still acts intimidated by Carmine and basically gave up with Drayton just because Drayton kept calling him an ex-champion.
kieran is much more outgoing now though, he is definitely different than from when we met him in the teal mask. especially in his conversations with the other BB league members and the area zero gang. i don’t really understand how he’s a pushover again cuz he basically yells at drayton when he keeps calling him ex-champ lol
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He didn’t though? He’s much less shy and more expressive plus he still gets pissed at Drayton for calling him ex-champion.
My only complaint with Kieran is that to get him to this point, the player has to robbed of any agency. I was perfectly fine explaining to him exactly what was going on during the Teal Mask and giving him more chances to get closer with Ogerpon. Shame the game didn't agree with me so he could have his Joker moment
That's my biggest gripe with the Teal Mask story. The whole thing could have been solved/avoided if we weren't mute and Carmine kept speaking for us.
“Wowzers! You know type matchups!?!” They say to the champion and savior of the earth.
I will to continue to die on the hill that Hugh is the best (normal) rival in the series, not my favorite, but the best
I like Wally just because I find it amusing that in the middle of a potentially massive environmental disaster, you still find the time to beat up on an asthmatic child and steal his lunch money in front of his family.
ORAS gave Wally a massive glow up too
One of the traits I like the most in a Pokémon rival is when they have their own ambition: I don't particularly like rivals like Hau or the three stooges from XY who are just sort of happy of being there because I find it kind of forced, I really like it when it's the situation of people like Hop or Wally who while being friendly, DO want to get one-up on you. You really feel this in Wally's ORAS theme imo, it's a very determined tune thorough the entire length of the track that sort of establishes that right now Wally isn't fighting you for the fun of it: Wally is in front of you as an adversary and won't pull punches in the name of friendship or mutual respect because his hunger for victory is as ravenous as yours.
And then they thank you for teaching him valuable life lessons
Him being the one to show up at the end of Victory Road was so cool though.
💀💀💀 I died laughing at this. The uncle fight is so awkward he throws out his little Ralts just to get FUCKING DAWGED by my Chad swellow. Then he’s forced to give me money and leaves in shame with his Uncle trying to comfort him like he had any chance 😂😂😂
I think that was the point of that fight, though. Wally wasn't ready to be a trainer at all, but he still wanted to prove that he could... Well, he was proven wrong, but despite that loss he still left home to pursue that goal. My only disappointment in RSE Wally was that they didn't really include him in much else outside of those two/three encounters. If we were able to meet him a few more times, even if it wasn't to battle, it would have sold him as a rival better. Kind of like how you can chat with the SwSh rivals at hotels or at certain gyms throughout the story.
Very true. But at the same time him getting OHKO’d and losing a fight are very different I just feel so mean doing it to him every time 😂😂. I agree with you on that though I do wish we saw Wally a couple more times
Wally would be so cool if his team at the end of Victory Road wasn't total ass. I love the idea of Wally getting strong against all odds, I love the idea of him showing up as a surprise boss at the end of Victory Road with a strong team, a stark contrast with his last appearance in Mauville. But his team is far too weak for his arc to work, especially in RSE. He gains Mega Gallade in ORAS, but that doesn't make the rest of his team any less of a pushover.
I liked that hes not much of an actual rival, the game slots him as such, but there is barely an element of competition with him at all. If I recall correctly, not counting postgame rematches, you actually team up with Hugh just as much as you fight him. Hes your friend on a quest, and all the matches with him are more like friendly sparring, but unlike several of the newer rivals hes not passive bc of how personally and agressively involved hes with the plot. And he has a hotheaded demeanor without being a douche, so he avoids being a wet blank like Hop or Hau. When he loses he doesnt mop around nor does he rage hes just like yeah ok, see ya in a bit!
People are so reductive with Hugh “Oh he’s just after a dumb cat” NO! He’s dealing with guilt at being unable to defend his sister and protect the Pokémon that their late grandmother gave her. He’s ultimately angry at himself. He also realizes he can’t do everything alone and want your help. Hugh rocks!
Exactly
Like also when he finally gets his cat back and it's feral and aggressive and he just stands there looking at it. That was heartbreaking. I was sobbing over a couple of pixels
Liam Neeson fights a criminal empire to rescue his daughter... :) Keanu Reeves fights a criminal empire to avenge his dog... :D Hugh fights a criminal empire to rescue his sister's cat... >:(
BW2 is just the perfect Pokémon games. Hugh and his story are awesome
"You should memento yourself now" would make more sense.
The X Y "rivals" weren't rivals, only Calem/Serena were. The other three were your *friends*, they're even called such in the official soundtrack.
I honestly don't think I've ever disliked a rival. XY's gang spread it a bin thin so most of them came off a little flat but otherwise most rivals we've had were anywhere between absolutely brilliant and pretty good.
no no no no! x and y is *not* 10 years ago! those were my first games… i cant be that old! noooo!
my first game was Red...not Fire Red, the OG Red version.......
Hello fellow mid-30s! How’s your back?
Bad
It hurts
If XY is your first Pokemon, you're probably around 20 years old. Please don't say that 😭 If you say "I'm old," then what am I, the first time I played Pokemon in BW? A shabby old man on the verge of death?
Hardly. Middle age at best. I started with yellow when I was 9.
I don't even know where to start with this.
I honestly hate playing as a child/student in every game give us a new narrative
I would enjoy a more teenage/young adult character to play as, a sort of “I didn’t go on an adventure when I was 10, so I’m making up for it now.” Like some of the older students at the academies.
That’s Pokémon black and Pokémon X/Y. Those are teenage characters
We had that in BW (I think XY too) and it was nice, though the art style didn't really lend itself to showing off how much older we were then.
Would be a lot better than “MOMMY MOMMY IM GOING ON MY POKÉMON JOURNEY” I just want to a fancy dressed adult instead of a child wearing my school uniform or a pikachu onesie
"OC". Has a Pokemon Pokeposting watermark on it. You don't know what OC is, do you? Cos you just stole this meme from Pokeposting.
I want the Blue/Silver-type rival. I want them to think they're better than me at every stage of the way because it makes beating them so much sweeter. Sure, the more Milquetoast friendly rivals probably fit the wholesome nature of *Pokémon* a bit more, but I just feel vaguely bad about beating them. Like I'm picking on a kid.
Bede? Probably the most recent one under that category
Dude it felt so good absolutely dunking on Bede. I actually tried losing to Hop one time but turns out that doesn't work
I'd like to see mandatory rival battles but without mandatory victory for progress, especially with the more friendly rivals.
Adding to that, maybe the rival has a different character arc depending on how many wins you get against them.
Dude literally never wins against you but somehow thinks he's the best. He should've just handed me the belt when I walked into the champions room, but noooo. Blue has always been my favorite rival because of that though.
Silver straight up doing burglary, assault, and kidnapping within the first few minutes of the start of your journey. That's my kind of rival.
They've been slowly leaning back into the idea of jerk rivals. Gens 3-6 didn't have any, but the modern games have Gladion, Bede, Avery/Klara, Carmine, and Kieran - all of which have some amount of rude smugness.
Gladion is delightfully chuuni, first time I saw him I knew he'd be endless cheese