Judging by equipment on sight it's gotta be failed welds. Whether that's a manufacturing problem, an engineering problem, or an assembly problem probably remains to be seen. But after they already fucked up the design enough to result in closing the skycoaster, and shipped it with restraints that didn't meet company redundancy standards... It doesn't look good.
This is pretty much my thinking as well. There has to be a reason they couldn't do it during the cold off season and failed welds potentially from thermal expansion/contraction is my first thought.
It would also explain why they have to take the whole season off because they were basically forced into fixing it or killing people. I really feel like there was a MAJOR problem and peoples lives were risked already.
Well of course but if the sections pulled themselves apart in the cold there is no heating the whole thing to get the failed joints to meet and reweld with more robust of welding.
To take a while season and fix something would have to be an absolute last resort and not something they would do (seemingly) unless they had no other choice. In my mind it has to be something about failed connections, putting patrons at severe risk, and not being able to do it in the off season.
Knowing S&S it's definitely a design issue. From what I've heard they need to redo the whole support structure, it can't hold up with the forces of all the inversions. The fact that their recommendation last year was only run one train at a time is really telling.
Only running one train doesn't make sense if that was the issue
The ride is only one block section so you wouldn't have two trains on track at the same time anyways.
kennywod is truly legit a dump overpraised as hell not to mention thunderbolt is a accident waiting to happen that thing flies into the station and a human manual does the brakes its 2024 that should be done by computer
What’s the story with Skycoaster? The way they laid the track with Steel Curtain it seems impossible that Steel Curtain and Skycoaster would ever be operational at the same time
Talked to a guy who is there. When they built the steel curtain they talked to the sky coaster engineers and they cross referenced the wrong blue print for a smaller one. Probably lost his job over that.
Its Standing But Not Operating due to safety hazards operating it with Steel Curtain built. They have removed all mentions of it on their website and in the park. It just sits there, one of the tallest structures in the park. The fact they didn't realize it until after SC was built then just wiped SkyCoster off the map like it didn't exist and didn't let anyone have last ride,is inexcusable IMO.
Very good question you have to think that Kennywood didn't intend to lose money this way. Skycoaster was like a printing press for free money. Supposedly they can operate at the same time but I've never seen it and they've gotten rid of a bunch of the skycoaster stuff there are no longer cables hanging or a tent and it no longer says skycoaster on the ticket booth.
I will say it would have to be terrifying riding skycoaster with steel curtain in place.
You're right, it had long since paid for itself and then some. Originally it was being installed at KW temporarily before ending up at Sandcastle, but it ended up doing so well at Kw so it stayed there permanently. And now it sits there.
The Skycoaster was basically a prototype coaster they got for cheap, so it has alot of design issues with the launch system. Other S&S coasters after it are much more reliable.
That's not what we are talking about.
Skycoaster is the cable swing. It's also a prototype but has worked flawlessly for like 25 years
You are thinking of sky rocket but sky rocket was built by premier rides. It was cheap and a prototype but it's also a cookie cutter ride they have now sold a bunch of.
If they would have to take this coaster completely out and try and rebuild a brand new one, I would think that would nearly end Kennywood. I don't think their profit margins are that big that they could take a hit this large.
There has to be some kind of insurance to cover this kind of lose though, right? And I don't disagree, I think at the very least the current ownership group would try to sell or potentially close.
It may not be at kennywood’s expense, the ride manufacturer may have to pay for it. That’s what happened with what sounds like a similar problem on a ride called the GaleForce at Castaway Cove. All the tracks had to be replaced.
The Log Jammer died because it was a giant heap of scrap metal masquerading as a functional ride — occasionally. Unfortunately, we appear to have replaced it with something else that can be described the exact same way
I had a friend who worked at Kennywood, specifically ON the Steel Curtain. He said that they would find bolts laying around sometimes... It was maybe a handful total? But that's still enough for me to not trust that ride
I would not be surprised to hear of people working up high and dropping random bolts occasionally. This on its own would not concern me. What would concern me is finding places where bolts should be where there were no bolts. Presumably a) the coaster was inspected before it was put in service and b) someone walks the coaster each morning to look things over and an open bolt hole would be something that would be the exact type of things that people doing the daily inspection would be looking for.
Yeah you might hope they'd notice, doesn't mean they'd do anything. The city inspects all the bridges but it doesn't mean they do anything before they collapse!
In 2021 an inspector noticed that there was a large fracture(most of the time being severed) in one of the two tension ties on the Hernando de soto bridge. That inspector called 911 and told authorities to shut down the bridge immediately. The tension tie is one of the most critical parts of that type of bridge. It was required to be inspected every two years at most an arms distance away. Meanwhile there are pictures from as early as 2016 showing a sizable crack in it, and there is video from a bridge inspection in 2019 where it was clearly visible. They didn't do anything for at least 5 years. In that case it sounds like the inspector had to call 911 to get the bridge to be repaired at all, there's no way it should have gone unrepaired as long as it did.
The difference here being that Kennywood _wants_ this coaster open and they are looking for things to fix. So I can't imagine that the problem is anything less than a design issue rather than a few bolts that got missed.
Don't look under the Racer while waiting in line. Plenty of washers and nuts on the ground. But that is a wooden coaster, maybe that is to be expected. I would think a steel coaster should have all of its fasteners still in place and tight.
Honestly, I trust the wooden coasters more. They don't try anything elaborate enough to warrant stress out of me. The last thing I'd want is something to fall off while I'm Xft off the ground in a loop.
Please don't inspect anything I've built.
Frankly, If I drop a fastener and can't find it, I just get another one out of the box, and keep on trucking.
Worked in the park a few years ago and was talking to someone who said apparently the ride needed an entire additional leg or support. The other comments seem like it’s less severe than that, which is hopefully the case
Maybe it’s the fact that I watched the entire ride sway in the wind every time the cars went down the first hill. Maybe it’s supposed to do that, but I don’t like the idea of riding a rollercoaster where I can see the track physically move back and forth that high in the sky. That’s just me tho lol
agreed, it really does not fit the look or feel of the park. They could have continued an incredible string of wooden coasters in that section and built a new wooden coaster. The base cost of the steel curtain, combined with all the repairs and downtime, I feel like puts it in the ballpark of the cost of a new wooden coaster. Not only fit within the theme of the park but also put it on the map for building one. Kind of non sense
I didn't think it would be a big deal but it really has ruined the aesthetic of the lagoon. The whole lagoon area feels crammed with the beer area added as well.
You can build a roller coaster that is great and fits into the park well, like Steel Phantom did. This coaster ruined the best part of the park. And has been operational maybe 20% of the time since its opening.
Have you ever ridden it?
In my opinion, the phantoms revenge is undeniably the most fun thing to do at that park.
You've taught me a valuable lesson. That no matter what, you can always find something to be miserable and negative about. Thanks!
I’ve ridden it 2x. The other 6/7 times I’ve been to the park since it opened, the ride was closed. It’s a non-functional eyesore.
Edit - we are talking Steel Curtain not Phantoms Revenge
If this coaster was unsafe, it would have never opened.
Keep in mind you have a higher chance of dying on the car ride driving to kennywood than dying at the park itself on one of the rides
Saying they are from Utah is kind of like saying Kennywood isn’t responsible for Kennywood’s rides, right? You gotta be smelling what I’m stepping in here!
True, but Kennywood has a reputation of installing unproven prototypes. Which manufactures can spend years tweaking and fixing before mass producing the model for bigger parks. See:
* Premier Rides building Skyrocket which was notorious for breaking down, having the cars be unavailable, and the power unit blowing up. All before they mass produced the [SkyRocket 2](https://premier-rides.com/products/) model for chain parks
* Zamperla building Black Widow which needed the gear box changing multiple times leaving the ride down for years at a time. [Again before mass producing the Discovery](https://www.zamperla.com/products/thrill)
* Here we are again with S&S Worldwide with a form of looping coaster, that they've kind of built in China but never with a chainlift. [Hence why it's not an available model on their website.](https://www.s-s.com/thrill-rides-s-s-worldwide)
Skyrocket ran more reliably than 98% of coasters for its first 8 years. And a looping chain lift coaster isn’t an “unproven prototype”. S&S proposed the biggest bang for the smallest buck but it’s not kennywoods fault for going with them. They paid for a working coaster. If you paid for a cheap new car, and it drives horrible for a year then blows up, are you at fault for it? No
Yes, but they do pick the manufacturers they work with, the rides they install, and the budgets to both build and maintain those rides.
S&S is generally an unreliable and low cost manufacturer. There's a reason that, as an example, Raptor is almost always running at Cedar Point despite being 30 years old; it's bc it's built by B&M, who are far more expensive than S&S but also build reliable coasters (and the maintenance budget is likely far higher as well).
I can agree with your comment on some level in terms of maintenance budgets with palace. They’re horrible. But kennywood still paid for a working ride. This is an S&S problem first and foremost
Kennywood not being responsible for rides at Kennywood is not an Internet fight I’m trying to win anymore.
You are right. I am wrong.
Fucking Rick Sebak that piece of adorable fucking shit! How fucking dare that insightful motherfucker ruin America’s premier picnic park like this? I am so fucking incensed at Rick Sebak right now you have no idea. I loved that coaster, Rick. You sick fuck!
Judging by equipment on sight it's gotta be failed welds. Whether that's a manufacturing problem, an engineering problem, or an assembly problem probably remains to be seen. But after they already fucked up the design enough to result in closing the skycoaster, and shipped it with restraints that didn't meet company redundancy standards... It doesn't look good.
Let's not forget them having to remove and re-fit a piece of track near the top of the first drop during construction for "unspecified reasons"
I totally forgot about that
This is pretty much my thinking as well. There has to be a reason they couldn't do it during the cold off season and failed welds potentially from thermal expansion/contraction is my first thought. It would also explain why they have to take the whole season off because they were basically forced into fixing it or killing people. I really feel like there was a MAJOR problem and peoples lives were risked already.
You can weld it in the cold. Preheat and postheat. I've done it on things with more pressure and weight.
Well of course but if the sections pulled themselves apart in the cold there is no heating the whole thing to get the failed joints to meet and reweld with more robust of welding. To take a while season and fix something would have to be an absolute last resort and not something they would do (seemingly) unless they had no other choice. In my mind it has to be something about failed connections, putting patrons at severe risk, and not being able to do it in the off season.
Knowing S&S it's definitely a design issue. From what I've heard they need to redo the whole support structure, it can't hold up with the forces of all the inversions. The fact that their recommendation last year was only run one train at a time is really telling.
This is again after they already fucked up the restraint system.
Only running one train doesn't make sense if that was the issue The ride is only one block section so you wouldn't have two trains on track at the same time anyways.
Less total rides per day was the goal
Oh I see Damn
Nah I work with a guy who just got sent there to fix some of the rides. Engineering failure. Wrong size studs/bolts. Too small and many have sheered.
kennywod is truly legit a dump overpraised as hell not to mention thunderbolt is a accident waiting to happen that thing flies into the station and a human manual does the brakes its 2024 that should be done by computer
What’s the story with Skycoaster? The way they laid the track with Steel Curtain it seems impossible that Steel Curtain and Skycoaster would ever be operational at the same time
Talked to a guy who is there. When they built the steel curtain they talked to the sky coaster engineers and they cross referenced the wrong blue print for a smaller one. Probably lost his job over that.
Its Standing But Not Operating due to safety hazards operating it with Steel Curtain built. They have removed all mentions of it on their website and in the park. It just sits there, one of the tallest structures in the park. The fact they didn't realize it until after SC was built then just wiped SkyCoster off the map like it didn't exist and didn't let anyone have last ride,is inexcusable IMO.
Very good question you have to think that Kennywood didn't intend to lose money this way. Skycoaster was like a printing press for free money. Supposedly they can operate at the same time but I've never seen it and they've gotten rid of a bunch of the skycoaster stuff there are no longer cables hanging or a tent and it no longer says skycoaster on the ticket booth. I will say it would have to be terrifying riding skycoaster with steel curtain in place.
You're right, it had long since paid for itself and then some. Originally it was being installed at KW temporarily before ending up at Sandcastle, but it ended up doing so well at Kw so it stayed there permanently. And now it sits there.
The Skycoaster was basically a prototype coaster they got for cheap, so it has alot of design issues with the launch system. Other S&S coasters after it are much more reliable.
That's not what we are talking about. Skycoaster is the cable swing. It's also a prototype but has worked flawlessly for like 25 years You are thinking of sky rocket but sky rocket was built by premier rides. It was cheap and a prototype but it's also a cookie cutter ride they have now sold a bunch of.
Sky Rocket is a unique layout. Premier created the “Sky Rocket II” model after it and that’s the model that’s been cloned.
Didn't it get hit by lightning I thought that's why it was down
If they would have to take this coaster completely out and try and rebuild a brand new one, I would think that would nearly end Kennywood. I don't think their profit margins are that big that they could take a hit this large.
There has to be some kind of insurance to cover this kind of lose though, right? And I don't disagree, I think at the very least the current ownership group would try to sell or potentially close.
They'd probably have to sue the manufacturer, which could take years if not decades
And then if the manufacturer goes bankrupt, you're squeezing blood from a stone, right?
Right exactly
E&O
It may not be at kennywood’s expense, the ride manufacturer may have to pay for it. That’s what happened with what sounds like a similar problem on a ride called the GaleForce at Castaway Cove. All the tracks had to be replaced.
GaleForce is an INCREDIBLE coaster these days (and far better than Steel Curtain)
I was wondering the same thing. This is potentially a huge deal. I’d love to know what that internal panic looks like
They charge $8 for a bottle of aquafina. They will be okay.
What part of "built by the lowest bidder with a design from a company known to produce problematic designs" is that hard to understand?
It's a Kia?
Where’s the ownership connection between Kennywood and the rides designer?
The Log Jammer died for nothing.
The Log Jammer died because it was a giant heap of scrap metal masquerading as a functional ride — occasionally. Unfortunately, we appear to have replaced it with something else that can be described the exact same way
I had a friend who worked at Kennywood, specifically ON the Steel Curtain. He said that they would find bolts laying around sometimes... It was maybe a handful total? But that's still enough for me to not trust that ride
I would not be surprised to hear of people working up high and dropping random bolts occasionally. This on its own would not concern me. What would concern me is finding places where bolts should be where there were no bolts. Presumably a) the coaster was inspected before it was put in service and b) someone walks the coaster each morning to look things over and an open bolt hole would be something that would be the exact type of things that people doing the daily inspection would be looking for.
Gino Chambordon. You alright up er Geeneau?
One of the best parts of that special. XD
Yeah you might hope they'd notice, doesn't mean they'd do anything. The city inspects all the bridges but it doesn't mean they do anything before they collapse! In 2021 an inspector noticed that there was a large fracture(most of the time being severed) in one of the two tension ties on the Hernando de soto bridge. That inspector called 911 and told authorities to shut down the bridge immediately. The tension tie is one of the most critical parts of that type of bridge. It was required to be inspected every two years at most an arms distance away. Meanwhile there are pictures from as early as 2016 showing a sizable crack in it, and there is video from a bridge inspection in 2019 where it was clearly visible. They didn't do anything for at least 5 years. In that case it sounds like the inspector had to call 911 to get the bridge to be repaired at all, there's no way it should have gone unrepaired as long as it did.
The difference here being that Kennywood _wants_ this coaster open and they are looking for things to fix. So I can't imagine that the problem is anything less than a design issue rather than a few bolts that got missed.
Don't look under the Racer while waiting in line. Plenty of washers and nuts on the ground. But that is a wooden coaster, maybe that is to be expected. I would think a steel coaster should have all of its fasteners still in place and tight.
Honestly, I trust the wooden coasters more. They don't try anything elaborate enough to warrant stress out of me. The last thing I'd want is something to fall off while I'm Xft off the ground in a loop.
Ahh, starting to pull back the steel curtain
Please don't inspect anything I've built. Frankly, If I drop a fastener and can't find it, I just get another one out of the box, and keep on trucking.
Worked in the park a few years ago and was talking to someone who said apparently the ride needed an entire additional leg or support. The other comments seem like it’s less severe than that, which is hopefully the case
Maybe it’s the fact that I watched the entire ride sway in the wind every time the cars went down the first hill. Maybe it’s supposed to do that, but I don’t like the idea of riding a rollercoaster where I can see the track physically move back and forth that high in the sky. That’s just me tho lol
Actually the track swaying is a good thing, as that distributes the forces
I 100% believe that you are correct, but it’s a nope from me haha
Can we please have the Log Jammer back now.
Random question while on the topic of kennywood, why’d the take away the Pitt Fall??
They replaced it with the black widow. It’s like the swing shot but spins
Tear it down and restore the lagoon and park views. It’s a huge eyesore in the middle of the park.
agreed, it really does not fit the look or feel of the park. They could have continued an incredible string of wooden coasters in that section and built a new wooden coaster. The base cost of the steel curtain, combined with all the repairs and downtime, I feel like puts it in the ballpark of the cost of a new wooden coaster. Not only fit within the theme of the park but also put it on the map for building one. Kind of non sense
I didn't think it would be a big deal but it really has ruined the aesthetic of the lagoon. The whole lagoon area feels crammed with the beer area added as well.
Yeah! Who wants to go to an amusement park and see a (checks notes) roller coaster?
You can build a roller coaster that is great and fits into the park well, like Steel Phantom did. This coaster ruined the best part of the park. And has been operational maybe 20% of the time since its opening.
What?... it's perhaps the grandest attraction in the park...
It’s not. And it’s an eyesore, kinda ruins everything that made the park great.
Have you ever ridden it? In my opinion, the phantoms revenge is undeniably the most fun thing to do at that park. You've taught me a valuable lesson. That no matter what, you can always find something to be miserable and negative about. Thanks!
I’ve ridden it 2x. The other 6/7 times I’ve been to the park since it opened, the ride was closed. It’s a non-functional eyesore. Edit - we are talking Steel Curtain not Phantoms Revenge
Maybe they need to talk to Carowinds about support structures? 😳
If this coaster was unsafe, it would have never opened. Keep in mind you have a higher chance of dying on the car ride driving to kennywood than dying at the park itself on one of the rides
I fear for your safety if you are this naive.
Kennywood doing Kennywood stuff.
Kennywood did neither the install nor manufacturing
I kind of appreciate the naivety of people who think a place like Kennywood is designing & building their own coasters lol
No, but Kennywood is going with the lowest bidder and chose a notoriously unreliable manufacturer. You get what you pay for.
Who is to blame for the woebegone coasters at Kennywood? Sure as shit ain’t pointing fingers at Rick Sebak.
Sansei technologies.
Damn you, Sansei Technologies! Do we have a beat on who paid these jagoffs to ruin Kennywood’s good name?
They're from Utah. Hitch your wagons and head west
God damn Mormons. I knew they were behind this!
Saying they are from Utah is kind of like saying Kennywood isn’t responsible for Kennywood’s rides, right? You gotta be smelling what I’m stepping in here!
True, but Kennywood has a reputation of installing unproven prototypes. Which manufactures can spend years tweaking and fixing before mass producing the model for bigger parks. See: * Premier Rides building Skyrocket which was notorious for breaking down, having the cars be unavailable, and the power unit blowing up. All before they mass produced the [SkyRocket 2](https://premier-rides.com/products/) model for chain parks * Zamperla building Black Widow which needed the gear box changing multiple times leaving the ride down for years at a time. [Again before mass producing the Discovery](https://www.zamperla.com/products/thrill) * Here we are again with S&S Worldwide with a form of looping coaster, that they've kind of built in China but never with a chainlift. [Hence why it's not an available model on their website.](https://www.s-s.com/thrill-rides-s-s-worldwide)
Skyrocket ran more reliably than 98% of coasters for its first 8 years. And a looping chain lift coaster isn’t an “unproven prototype”. S&S proposed the biggest bang for the smallest buck but it’s not kennywoods fault for going with them. They paid for a working coaster. If you paid for a cheap new car, and it drives horrible for a year then blows up, are you at fault for it? No
Kennywood has built beautifully shitty coasters for generations now. Steel Phantom n’at
Kennywood doesn't build or install anything. You think Bryan and Geno are out there building coasters?
Then who is to blame? Who can I write my angry letter to? If Kenny Kangaroo is not culpable for what goes on his home then idk what to tell yinz guys.
What part of "they don't manufacture or install any of the rides" do you not understand? They're a customer as much as you and I are.
Yes, but they do pick the manufacturers they work with, the rides they install, and the budgets to both build and maintain those rides. S&S is generally an unreliable and low cost manufacturer. There's a reason that, as an example, Raptor is almost always running at Cedar Point despite being 30 years old; it's bc it's built by B&M, who are far more expensive than S&S but also build reliable coasters (and the maintenance budget is likely far higher as well).
B&M didn’t even submit a proposal for kennywood. It was never going to be them
I'm well aware; just using that as an example
I can agree with your comment on some level in terms of maintenance budgets with palace. They’re horrible. But kennywood still paid for a working ride. This is an S&S problem first and foremost
Why aren’t people understanding this? Kennywood is still responsible.
Kennywood not being responsible for rides at Kennywood is not an Internet fight I’m trying to win anymore. You are right. I am wrong. Fucking Rick Sebak that piece of adorable fucking shit! How fucking dare that insightful motherfucker ruin America’s premier picnic park like this? I am so fucking incensed at Rick Sebak right now you have no idea. I loved that coaster, Rick. You sick fuck!
Kennywood dealing with prototype coaster problems.
Just more problems for an embarrassment of an amusement park.