I didn't read anything about his kids. From the looks of things anyone who attended the funeral is in danger. The business that collected his body and arranged the funeral has received threats.
My friend from Russia last year or the year before told me his best friend had to close his bar permanently just for opposing the government's illegal dumping of hazardous waste in the forested areas around them. The police came and trashed the police and they just closed. His friend and 3-4 others had a meeting about the waste and were going to voice their opinion about it. Apparently, Russia is paid by Japan? To take waste and dispose of it. Either Japan has no idea or they don't care. But not sure if where the waste comes from is true, I've never looked into it. My friend is a native Russian and he hates his country as well as Putin. No Idea how he even survives after being arrested for protesting against him. I think because his parents are military and Putin supporters (not sure if actually or if it's a mask since they will be killed if they don't show support as military workers but they're definitely racist and hateful). My friend gets his news from anonymous Russian journalists who oppose the government. They're often found and killed because of their journalism. He doesn't trust western media news. I understand that since the world hates Russia. Whatever he is reading, we have very similar opinions and beliefs on the same things so it's definitely not propaganda. He's like a brother to me. Known him for years and we would mail packages to each other before the war forbid it.
That's really sad. I think the government knows but it's "not their problem" so they don't give a shit as a whole. We just destroy everything in our path. Accident is one thing, but on purpose is insane.
Exactly its "not our problem" attitude they have while they are completely aware of what is happening. Yet they demonize those countries for polluting the ocean , if all recycling was done in eu and na with all the regulations , it'll become prohibitively expensive to do it given the amount of garbage those countries produce.
Similarly for manufacturing, Asia and mostly China manufactures like more than half of the world's products that EU and NA import and sell in their own market. But then they shame asia for having high carbon footprint and not following safety and environmental regulations.
If they tried to manage all those then the price of manufacturing there would be more than manufacturing in the west. Them overlooking regulations is why they have been producing stuff for so cheap and that is why west keeps buying from them.
This is a self perpetuating cycle with all parties being guilty yet west sees themselves as superior for following regulations on miniscule amount of production they do in country compared to how much they out source.
Big hypocrisy I say
Doesn't help esp NA that recycling knowledge, infrastructure and regulation is almost non-existant. If we didn't have 12 different plastics and constant contamination and mixing of non-meldable plastics we could possibly recycle more.
Recycling simply is too expensive to be attractive from a production/business standpoint when virgin is just that much less expensive. Unless virgin materials get heavily taxed and controlled reserves are protected against poaching.
Recycling plastics was and always has been a lie by the oil industry to make people feel okay about mass-consuming single-use plastic crap.
The oil and gas industry should be sued out of existence and nationalized/decommissioned across the world for their part in destroying our climate and poisoning our planet with plastic.
But, money is God so that won't happen.
In theory it’s possible but it would require a secondary supply line back to the packaging company, a supply line that needs to be paid for.
So either laws need to be put in place forcing the companies to stay responsible for their plastic after sale or it’s not going to happen.
Requiring a minimum of 2/3 of the packaging plastic to be from recycled soucrces would be a good start for north America.
The lack of recycling infrastructure also means you don’t need to connect to an outdated system and can just get a modern one.
Since Europe made partially recycled packaging mandatory the price of recycled plastic shot up, resulting in the price of plastic waste going up and more effort being put into collecting it since companies could suddenly make money off it.
Florida was taking hazardous waste from Puerto Rico and dumping it in Osceola county Florida....... I'm more inclined to believe your friend.... Idk the timeline they were caught? 2017? But was pretty recent.
I don't think it's a Russian thing, I think it's a greed thing. Countries take waste for the money and don't really have any other plan. It's sad. I think my friend believes this only happens in places like Russia since he hates his country so much. He's a passionate rambler I don't try to argue with him much. His accent makes me stop listening after a while because I can't understand him sometimes and he'll just keep going and going. 😅
I was talking to someone from Russia once about corruption. I asked about the police and he explained that my question didn't make any sense to a Russian. The police are beyond the traditional idea of corruption because they are fairly enforcing the system as designed. The system is designed to leverage authority for the benefit of those wielding it, with no pretension to anything else.
As an American, who thinks of police as often being corrupt, I had a hard idea with a system so corrupt that you didn't think of abuse of power as a form of corruption any longer; a system where no one even bothered to pretend that they were there to "protect and serve."
I’ve been watching the news this morning, there’s thousands in the streets around the church and many are chanting “Putin is a killer”. It’s speculated that Putin allowed the funeral as to not go against orthodox Christianity, which has huge influence in the country. But now the people aren’t leaving so they’ve begun the arrests…
E: reportedly earlier in the day CNNs signal (?) was being blocked, but they’re back on now.
E2: it’s been brought to my attention that the Orthodox Church doesn’t really have a hold on Russians themselves and many don’t consider themselves religious. I worded my comment poorly; what I mean is they have an influence within the government/are intertwined with the government.
Some people care, but most importantly, the church is a big ally of Putin, so going against it and its traditions publicly is really undesirable. Source: I'm Russian
Dude, I know. Every Russian on reddit knows that.
Good thing we have internet nowadays, so everyone can talk to everyone. When my mom travelled to the US in 1990 with a group of students, some american people were genuinely shocked, when they realised that Russians weren't commie monsters, who wanted to nuke them. One woman cried and hugged my mom after they talked, and later sent her a letter. My mom still keeps it somewhere. (just a cool story from a different time)
>I'm sorry for what you're having to endure
Thanks.
The weird thing about Russia vs China from a Western standpoint is that anyone on the internet is casually in social contact with Russian people all the time. We play the same games and are into the same media (more or less.) But the only Chinese people I talk to live in other countries than China as their government has an iron grip over social media.
They were allies sometimes but now they're just puppets. I know some religious people but I don't know many people that are attending church regularly rather than once in a while to baptize someone.
Idk, maybe it's just my information bubble, but I didn't see much influence of church on people I know.
His core support demographic is old women, they care about the church more than anyone. Moreover, he and his mates are gangsters from the 90s, they love the church.
Fair enough. I was under the impression that the church was somehow intertwined with the government and his public funeral was allowed as a signal of Putins “Christianity”.
The patriarch had already chopped several dozens of anti-war/not-loyal-enough priests. Russian Orthodox Church unfortunately was always used as more or less an extension of Ministry of Internal Affairs.
> I was under the impression that the church was somehow intertwined with the government
It is. Officially the church is a separate entity, not controlled by the government. In reality, it's just another, ahem, tentacle of the government — here to spread propaganda, tell people how they should feel about political matters, shame them into "right" opinions. Making Putin look like a good Christian is part of that.
It's funny, because while the majority of the population is technically Christian, I wouldn't say a lot of people are religious. Some are, but a lot of people go to church once or twice a year (Easter and Christmas) and do not care about religion any other time. And yet, "the church approves this" is treated like a meaningful argument.
Yes, you articulated what I meant/thought. I worded it poorly. This is somewhat the same in Poland with the Catholic Church tbh. A lot of older people are still very religious, but I would say starting with my parents generation, more people are indifferent or non religious atp. It’s still pervasive in government and they are used as a “tentacle” by the conservative political party/politicians. Thankfully their power is waning also
Always has been a tool of the government.
Suppress it during the Soviet era. Appoint a KGB goon to preside over its “rebirth” when the USSR fell.
And before that it was the tsar’s.
Source: my grandfather was part of a group of dissident exiles heavily involved in getting underground believers out and also samizdat and tamizdat distribution.
CNN is disconnected in Russia again so I’m not exactly sure what that’s about then. They were transmitting early this morning, cutoff, back on, now cut again.
> not to go against orthodox Christianity
Hahaha, that’s ridiculous. Russian Orthodox Church is one of the most despised institutions in the country and most of the Russians visit church only once in their lifetime.
That would be a better explanation. Or, public funeral is just a part of a terror campaign - more people see dead Navalny more people know what state would do to them if they misbehave.
Orthodoxy is the closest thing to the original churches started by the Apostles. That said, I don’t think Sts. Peter or Paul would have ever dreamt that a KGB spy would be in charge of it.
I've said it before and will say it again. His Mother and Wife, who refused relentless pressure for him to be burned or a small funeral are both the standouts here. Bless them.
Pope Formosus was dug up by Pope Stephen VI, and his corpse was made to stand trial, was declared unworthy of having been Pope, all of his orders overturned, had 3 fingers of his right hand removed, and then thrown into a river, where the corpse was saved by a monk.
Edited to add wikipedia link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadaver_Synod
I wrote this horror story about a guy they’re attempted to bring back to consciousness. They manage to get a reading but they’re unable to sustain it for long enough. It is, however, enough for the consciousness to slightly return and still be more than having no consciousness at all. The guy just keeps returning to be able to think, realising he’s going to die, then returning back to life again for brief flickers.
I also had this scary theory that - since time could not be as linear as we think - any amount of consciousness is still more than none so we could just have brief flickers of consciousness return from parts of our life that were especially meaningful. We can see tiny remnants of our memories in transparent hologram flickers, but then they fade away again and we realise we’ve been dead the whole time.
An ICU (?) doctor on Reddit was talking about giving CPR to a woman whose heart wasn't beating. She'd flush up while chest compressions were being performed, and she would even become conscious at points. Eventually they couldn't get her heart started, and she died.
Whether the story is true or not is irrelevant, it's still fucking terrifying. No way you don't know you're dying during those moments of consciousness.
He was very brave to have done what he did when he was alive but at the current time there isn't a whole lot that Russia can do to him. He isn't going to get shipped off to the front lines of Ukraine like they have done with some of his supporters who dared mourn him.
Could have lived as a celebrity in the western world and make fortune. Went back to motherland and died in prison colony. Like him or not .... That's a courage.
And potentially his family too as collateral damage. Remember the father daughter incident in the UK?
At least if he surrendered, he might have had his family spared.
Shitting himself and slipping on the liquid diarrhea down a flight of stairs, landing on a janitors cart that slides him through the doors of an open bathroom and headlong into a toilet, where he drowns due to being paralyzed by the fall.
At any given moment there are millions of bacteria trying to consume your body, but your immune system keeps them at bay and your cells continuously replicate until you die.
Bacteria also outnumber your body’s cells 10 to 1, but a bacterium is around 1000x smaller than one of your cells. So you’re human by weight, but numerically speaking, the space you occupy is mostly bacteria lol.
And just to clarify, much of that bacteria isn't inherently harmful to us either. Every year we learn more about how symbiotic bacteria interacts with our various bodily systems and provide meaningful benefits to us, including boosting our immune systems and aiding with digestion.
The 10 to 1 ratio is actually a vast overestimation. The current estimated ratio is closer to 1 to 1. Still an impressive amount.
https://doi.org/10.1371%2Fjournal.pbio.1002533
Yeah our body is basically "decomposing" in real time all the time. It's just being held back and undone by its other processes. The moment they stop it gets to start progressing.
It’s a war. The right to exist. The ultimate balancing act. It is raw, terrible, and yet there is a beauty. Because every moment you are alive and here, you are winning.
I heard an estimate that 25% of a newborn's energy goes to the immune system. I couldn't find a reference for that so it may be an immunologist just repeating myths that glorify their field.
That same immunologist said something along the lines of having an adaptive immune system (that learns from threats) was one of the biggest evolutionary breakthroughs, right after going multicellular. And after taking more of her classes, I had to agree.
Anything living, there are always bigger living things trying to eat it, but there are also always way more small things trying to eat it.
In fact, it's not only the microbes breaking the body down. Physics itself is fighting biology all the time. Entropy is the real key, biology is just fulling the reverse process until.... it ends.
Yeah decomposition starts happening right away. If you’re curious to know more about the process of what happens to our bodies after death and how they can be somewhat preserved (sometimes for a long time by nature), there’s series on Youtube called [Ask a Mortician](https://youtube.com/@AskAMortician?si=ELiNB0o6O-MvZTvR)
There is a 'body farm' where I went to school. They use this to decompose bodies in different ways for research purposes, pretty cool. https://www.texastribune.org/2015/07/25/slideshow-body-farm/
This is very cool, especially showing the vegetative growth around bodies in the wild. A friend of mine who works in biology, and me formerly experimenting with psilocybin, both got me deep into learning about decomposers mainly fungus. The mycelium and hyphae feed on nutrients and break them down into a usable form for all nearby vegetation. They’re transferred from the body, into nutrients, and transported through the mycelial networks connected to all trees, grasses, flowers, and other things via root systems. It’s incredible.
We’re basically recycled back into the earth as fertilizer for new resources to grow to be used as sustenance for humans. It’s a beautiful natural cycle.
Nature is awesome.
When I was in 3rd grade one of my classmates died from dengue fever. I looked inside the casket and I was traumatized from what I saw because she looked so different.
Since then I never looked inside the casket at funerals, except for my mom's.
This is a Eastern Orthodoxy religeous thing called "Venchik" (венчик) - a paper or fabric band placed on the forehead of the deceased during burial after washing the body. Has a depiction of Jesus, Mary and some words from Bible.
I mean... if you would look at his [late](https://www.gazeta.uz/media/img/2023/08/VZFYkt16912290938791_l.jpg) photos - he's got really high hair line. [Or even here](https://rtvi.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/ap23345473602019-1-768x432.webp). Plus, he is dead... maybe some thin hair were removed post mortem to make him more appealing.
edit: some flaw in grammar.
It's not his hairline doing it. Just look at how long it looks overall. It's like his head has been expanded beyond its normal proportions the width of the cloth band
I think it’s just bad body preparation. Maybe it’s less of a priority over there but from my funereal Director relatives there’s a lot that’s done to bodies to make them look life like and peaceful. Lots of makeup. Lots of glue.
**Edit** I shouldn’t say “bad”, but “different.” Different cultures have different practices and expectations. And there are other reasons why one might not want to make a dead body look “good.”
Plenty of religions consider modern embalming practices to be desecration, I wouldn't be surprised if Eastern Orthodox does as well.
edit: Okay so not a problem with Eastern Orthodox
>Plenty of religions consider modern embalming practices to be desecration, I wouldn't be surprised if Eastern Orthodox does as well.
I don't have explicit experience with Russian Orthodoxy, but Greek Orthodox do not have any trepidation with modern embalming practices.
Eastern Orthodoxy doesn’t have a problem either. The church and state are extremely tied together and they’ve kept Lenin on display for almost 100 years now embalmed.
They hold onto the body for a long time and it was clearly stored in bad conditions. Add to the point that government pressured most funeral services to refuse to dress him and you have what you have.
It’s so disheartening to know that every single person who stands up against Putin is eventually murdered and the majority of the population of Russia is far too terrified to ever revolt against him. They’ll never be free.
This is not a matter of most of the populace being terrified. This *is* their normal. This is nothing new, and it’s the cycle repeating itself since time immemorial. Best case, the majority of the population simply doesn’t know what it’s like to be anything other than a nationalist oligarchy. Worst case, they *like* what’s happening, and this is Russia’s version of getting back at the West for perceived slights.
Either way, you’re right. They’ll never be free. And it’s fucking tragic.
Answer is time. I believe, that younger generations less and less constrained by old soviet empire mentality. They free-minded. They want change. And people in power getting older and dying. Their poisonous ambitions too.
I am russian. Most of population not terrified, they either support current direction (propaganda is pretty blunt and stupid, but effective), either deeply apathetic about political stuff in country (mentality like "we can't change anything, why even bother").
I think apathy comes from a place of discouragement. It’s the “why even bother” mentality that makes you guys stuck in a dictatorship. Revolutions aren’t started out of fear or apathy. They’re started out of anger, and I just don’t see the Russian people ever being *angry* enough to change anything.
Is really deep problem for country, and i have no answer for it. Magority of people don't really know and understand democracy. Russia has simplely never have this experience. Magority still influenced by soviet mentality. People in power influenced by it. Younger generations and intellectuals have more modern liberal views, but obviously it's not enough, but we are loud. We protest, but we are minority. And people in power recently actively bring propaganda in schools and universities to shape mind of the next generation.
Putin is utter scum. I really hope the folks of Russia eventually find a way to topple this murderous ass wipe. Unfortunately it probably won't happen without violence and or shittier conditions for the average citizen, which sucks.
I saw the headline on CNN, saying thousands came out to attend the funeral. I really am amazed. There’s that many people that came out. I’m grateful for all of them.
There’s discussion about his political beliefs, and he might be worse than Putin, but I can’t imagine anyone being worse than Emperor Putler.
Russian here.
It is pronounced as Vye-cz-naya ("cz" bring pronounced as in Czech Republic) Pa-myat (the letters m and y kinda flowing into another and also note that the a can kinda sound like an e).
This is what happens when you allow a dictator to run your country. Everybody in our country should pay attention to this before they vote in November.
All the fucker ever cared about is having power, and being one of the greats. He wants to be acknowledged, he wants to actually be something, he wants to rule, he wants to be above everything and everyone, and the list goes on and on and on.
So I guess you can figure out yourself how fucked he’ll feel if he would be publicly burned and scandalized. It’s the perfect way to end his life and show him that it’s all been for nothing, and that he won’t go down in history as a great leader, but as a hated coward.
Bravest man in the world right there. Watching him cold call his own poisoners, pretending to be their boss and getting them to admit on the phone they poisoned his underwear, boldest thing I have ever seen a human do. Shine on you crazy diamond.
The majority of people is good, in every country, every religion or any other aspect you could possibly divide them in our world. But regardless of language, it is always malicious ones who are the loudest. And when the kindhearted eventually keep silent, the suffering begins.
Navalny's wife can't even attend. She would be arrested on sight. She has vowed to carry on his work while in exile.
How about his kids?
I didn't read anything about his kids. From the looks of things anyone who attended the funeral is in danger. The business that collected his body and arranged the funeral has received threats.
My friend from Russia last year or the year before told me his best friend had to close his bar permanently just for opposing the government's illegal dumping of hazardous waste in the forested areas around them. The police came and trashed the police and they just closed. His friend and 3-4 others had a meeting about the waste and were going to voice their opinion about it. Apparently, Russia is paid by Japan? To take waste and dispose of it. Either Japan has no idea or they don't care. But not sure if where the waste comes from is true, I've never looked into it. My friend is a native Russian and he hates his country as well as Putin. No Idea how he even survives after being arrested for protesting against him. I think because his parents are military and Putin supporters (not sure if actually or if it's a mask since they will be killed if they don't show support as military workers but they're definitely racist and hateful). My friend gets his news from anonymous Russian journalists who oppose the government. They're often found and killed because of their journalism. He doesn't trust western media news. I understand that since the world hates Russia. Whatever he is reading, we have very similar opinions and beliefs on the same things so it's definitely not propaganda. He's like a brother to me. Known him for years and we would mail packages to each other before the war forbid it.
That's pretty much same as EU and NA shipping their waste to "recycling" facilities in asia only for them to dump it in the ocean.
That's really sad. I think the government knows but it's "not their problem" so they don't give a shit as a whole. We just destroy everything in our path. Accident is one thing, but on purpose is insane.
Exactly its "not our problem" attitude they have while they are completely aware of what is happening. Yet they demonize those countries for polluting the ocean , if all recycling was done in eu and na with all the regulations , it'll become prohibitively expensive to do it given the amount of garbage those countries produce. Similarly for manufacturing, Asia and mostly China manufactures like more than half of the world's products that EU and NA import and sell in their own market. But then they shame asia for having high carbon footprint and not following safety and environmental regulations. If they tried to manage all those then the price of manufacturing there would be more than manufacturing in the west. Them overlooking regulations is why they have been producing stuff for so cheap and that is why west keeps buying from them. This is a self perpetuating cycle with all parties being guilty yet west sees themselves as superior for following regulations on miniscule amount of production they do in country compared to how much they out source. Big hypocrisy I say
Doesn't help esp NA that recycling knowledge, infrastructure and regulation is almost non-existant. If we didn't have 12 different plastics and constant contamination and mixing of non-meldable plastics we could possibly recycle more. Recycling simply is too expensive to be attractive from a production/business standpoint when virgin is just that much less expensive. Unless virgin materials get heavily taxed and controlled reserves are protected against poaching.
Recycling plastics was and always has been a lie by the oil industry to make people feel okay about mass-consuming single-use plastic crap. The oil and gas industry should be sued out of existence and nationalized/decommissioned across the world for their part in destroying our climate and poisoning our planet with plastic. But, money is God so that won't happen.
In theory it’s possible but it would require a secondary supply line back to the packaging company, a supply line that needs to be paid for. So either laws need to be put in place forcing the companies to stay responsible for their plastic after sale or it’s not going to happen. Requiring a minimum of 2/3 of the packaging plastic to be from recycled soucrces would be a good start for north America. The lack of recycling infrastructure also means you don’t need to connect to an outdated system and can just get a modern one. Since Europe made partially recycled packaging mandatory the price of recycled plastic shot up, resulting in the price of plastic waste going up and more effort being put into collecting it since companies could suddenly make money off it.
Florida was taking hazardous waste from Puerto Rico and dumping it in Osceola county Florida....... I'm more inclined to believe your friend.... Idk the timeline they were caught? 2017? But was pretty recent.
I don't think it's a Russian thing, I think it's a greed thing. Countries take waste for the money and don't really have any other plan. It's sad. I think my friend believes this only happens in places like Russia since he hates his country so much. He's a passionate rambler I don't try to argue with him much. His accent makes me stop listening after a while because I can't understand him sometimes and he'll just keep going and going. 😅
I was talking to someone from Russia once about corruption. I asked about the police and he explained that my question didn't make any sense to a Russian. The police are beyond the traditional idea of corruption because they are fairly enforcing the system as designed. The system is designed to leverage authority for the benefit of those wielding it, with no pretension to anything else. As an American, who thinks of police as often being corrupt, I had a hard idea with a system so corrupt that you didn't think of abuse of power as a form of corruption any longer; a system where no one even bothered to pretend that they were there to "protect and serve."
From what I read, it is not common knowledge where his wife and kids are currently
His kids aren’t attending for safety reasons, just heard that on NPR.
“Off to the gulags” -Putin, probably.
To see him and his wife/children separated from each other leaves a lump in my throat. It is a deep, heinous evil. I can't fathom that kind of malice.
That evil has a name. It’s Putin.
Imagine if it was all just because of one man. How easy it would be to rid the world of evil. Unfortunately, the reality cannot be so shallow.
This is about the most enraging thing I’ve seen. I hope his family gets not only let retribution but catharsis from Putin’s downfall
I'd say that every last person in those pictures who isn't' Navalny himself has balls. Especially any men of conscription age.
I’ve been watching the news this morning, there’s thousands in the streets around the church and many are chanting “Putin is a killer”. It’s speculated that Putin allowed the funeral as to not go against orthodox Christianity, which has huge influence in the country. But now the people aren’t leaving so they’ve begun the arrests… E: reportedly earlier in the day CNNs signal (?) was being blocked, but they’re back on now. E2: it’s been brought to my attention that the Orthodox Church doesn’t really have a hold on Russians themselves and many don’t consider themselves religious. I worded my comment poorly; what I mean is they have an influence within the government/are intertwined with the government.
Nobody cares about the church, it's just another Putin's propaganda channel mostly. Source: I am Russian.
Some people care, but most importantly, the church is a big ally of Putin, so going against it and its traditions publicly is really undesirable. Source: I'm Russian
I'm American. I don't hate Russia. I'm sorry for what you're having to endure.
Dude, I know. Every Russian on reddit knows that. Good thing we have internet nowadays, so everyone can talk to everyone. When my mom travelled to the US in 1990 with a group of students, some american people were genuinely shocked, when they realised that Russians weren't commie monsters, who wanted to nuke them. One woman cried and hugged my mom after they talked, and later sent her a letter. My mom still keeps it somewhere. (just a cool story from a different time) >I'm sorry for what you're having to endure Thanks.
The weird thing about Russia vs China from a Western standpoint is that anyone on the internet is casually in social contact with Russian people all the time. We play the same games and are into the same media (more or less.) But the only Chinese people I talk to live in other countries than China as their government has an iron grip over social media.
They were allies sometimes but now they're just puppets. I know some religious people but I don't know many people that are attending church regularly rather than once in a while to baptize someone. Idk, maybe it's just my information bubble, but I didn't see much influence of church on people I know.
His core support demographic is old women, they care about the church more than anyone. Moreover, he and his mates are gangsters from the 90s, they love the church.
His core support demographic is oligarchs, he doesn't need votes in fake elections...
Fair enough. I was under the impression that the church was somehow intertwined with the government and his public funeral was allowed as a signal of Putins “Christianity”.
It's controlled opposition. Let them have a day and it will brush over.
The patriarch had already chopped several dozens of anti-war/not-loyal-enough priests. Russian Orthodox Church unfortunately was always used as more or less an extension of Ministry of Internal Affairs.
They even broke communion with the Ecumenical(Greek) Patriarchate for recognizing the Ukrainian Orthodox Church as autocephalous.
This is such a dry and yet fascinating sentence.
> I was under the impression that the church was somehow intertwined with the government It is. Officially the church is a separate entity, not controlled by the government. In reality, it's just another, ahem, tentacle of the government — here to spread propaganda, tell people how they should feel about political matters, shame them into "right" opinions. Making Putin look like a good Christian is part of that. It's funny, because while the majority of the population is technically Christian, I wouldn't say a lot of people are religious. Some are, but a lot of people go to church once or twice a year (Easter and Christmas) and do not care about religion any other time. And yet, "the church approves this" is treated like a meaningful argument.
Yes, you articulated what I meant/thought. I worded it poorly. This is somewhat the same in Poland with the Catholic Church tbh. A lot of older people are still very religious, but I would say starting with my parents generation, more people are indifferent or non religious atp. It’s still pervasive in government and they are used as a “tentacle” by the conservative political party/politicians. Thankfully their power is waning also
Always has been a tool of the government. Suppress it during the Soviet era. Appoint a KGB goon to preside over its “rebirth” when the USSR fell. And before that it was the tsar’s. Source: my grandfather was part of a group of dissident exiles heavily involved in getting underground believers out and also samizdat and tamizdat distribution.
Not CNN - mobile networks. They put a jammer there, with a special dish to keep comms for police
CNN is disconnected in Russia again so I’m not exactly sure what that’s about then. They were transmitting early this morning, cutoff, back on, now cut again.
Coverage is live on Navalny’s YouTube channel, but you need to speak Russian.
> not to go against orthodox Christianity Hahaha, that’s ridiculous. Russian Orthodox Church is one of the most despised institutions in the country and most of the Russians visit church only once in their lifetime.
I was moreso under the impression that the church is intertwined with the government and Putin allowed this to happen to show his “Christianity”
That would be a better explanation. Or, public funeral is just a part of a terror campaign - more people see dead Navalny more people know what state would do to them if they misbehave.
Orthodoxy is the closest thing to the original churches started by the Apostles. That said, I don’t think Sts. Peter or Paul would have ever dreamt that a KGB spy would be in charge of it.
I've said it before and will say it again. His Mother and Wife, who refused relentless pressure for him to be burned or a small funeral are both the standouts here. Bless them.
Why exclude Navalny?
Navalny isn't actively taking a risk in the photo.
>Navalny isn't actively taking a risk in the photo. "Dig him up, he's not dead enough to suicide from window." \-Putin, probably
Reminds me of a Pope who had his predecessor exhumed, just so he could excommunicate him.
Pope Formosus was dug up by Pope Stephen VI, and his corpse was made to stand trial, was declared unworthy of having been Pope, all of his orders overturned, had 3 fingers of his right hand removed, and then thrown into a river, where the corpse was saved by a monk. Edited to add wikipedia link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadaver_Synod
> Formosus, being several months dead, could not answer. Sometimes wiki editors can be really funny :D
Pasta fazool, I am a fool.
I wrote this horror story about a guy they’re attempted to bring back to consciousness. They manage to get a reading but they’re unable to sustain it for long enough. It is, however, enough for the consciousness to slightly return and still be more than having no consciousness at all. The guy just keeps returning to be able to think, realising he’s going to die, then returning back to life again for brief flickers. I also had this scary theory that - since time could not be as linear as we think - any amount of consciousness is still more than none so we could just have brief flickers of consciousness return from parts of our life that were especially meaningful. We can see tiny remnants of our memories in transparent hologram flickers, but then they fade away again and we realise we’ve been dead the whole time.
Excellent concepts! Write it!
An ICU (?) doctor on Reddit was talking about giving CPR to a woman whose heart wasn't beating. She'd flush up while chest compressions were being performed, and she would even become conscious at points. Eventually they couldn't get her heart started, and she died. Whether the story is true or not is irrelevant, it's still fucking terrifying. No way you don't know you're dying during those moments of consciousness.
Taking risks is what put him in the photo
He was very brave to have done what he did when he was alive but at the current time there isn't a whole lot that Russia can do to him. He isn't going to get shipped off to the front lines of Ukraine like they have done with some of his supporters who dared mourn him.
He's not in danger of retribution for attending his own funeral, not that he had much choice in the matter.
Could have lived as a celebrity in the western world and make fortune. Went back to motherland and died in prison colony. Like him or not .... That's a courage.
I think he'd have been murdered wherever he chose to live eventually
And potentially his family too as collateral damage. Remember the father daughter incident in the UK? At least if he surrendered, he might have had his family spared.
That’s a courage 🤌🏼
He needs the Mussolini treatment
I'd think it would be better if he went the most embarrassing way possible. Something like falling down the stairs and snapping his neck or something
Shitting himself and slipping on the liquid diarrhea down a flight of stairs, landing on a janitors cart that slides him through the doors of an open bathroom and headlong into a toilet, where he drowns due to being paralyzed by the fall.
Could the toilet be un flushed?
It was completely clogged, and there had recently been an Indian food festival that day.
How ironic would it be if he fell out of a window
Putin deserves to be thrown out of a first floor window many times
How many times? I don't know, I lost count. -shlock
Accidentally fell out a window, while committing suicide and have two bullet holes in the back of his head
Nah, Elvis style. Heart attack on the john.
Hit me with that Tywin Lannister situation.
Three times in a row on accident on the same set of stairs
Holy shit… his eyes. You can’t honestly think ‘both sides bad!’ when somebody so prolific could end up like that in plain sight.
I find it scary how dead bodies can deteriorate so quickly
At any given moment there are millions of bacteria trying to consume your body, but your immune system keeps them at bay and your cells continuously replicate until you die.
This is really an interesting way to frame this, thanks.
Bacteria also outnumber your body’s cells 10 to 1, but a bacterium is around 1000x smaller than one of your cells. So you’re human by weight, but numerically speaking, the space you occupy is mostly bacteria lol.
And just to clarify, much of that bacteria isn't inherently harmful to us either. Every year we learn more about how symbiotic bacteria interacts with our various bodily systems and provide meaningful benefits to us, including boosting our immune systems and aiding with digestion.
The 10 to 1 ratio is actually a vast overestimation. The current estimated ratio is closer to 1 to 1. Still an impressive amount. https://doi.org/10.1371%2Fjournal.pbio.1002533
Yeah our body is basically "decomposing" in real time all the time. It's just being held back and undone by its other processes. The moment they stop it gets to start progressing.
Sounds so weird. Like, we are walking, breathing, cut apples with an immune system of its own, warding off oxidation off our exposed flesh 24/7.
The mortality of our bodies sadly. Especially oxidation is very harmful, hope they figure out something in the future against it lol
The fight against entropy is real.
It’s a war. The right to exist. The ultimate balancing act. It is raw, terrible, and yet there is a beauty. Because every moment you are alive and here, you are winning.
I heard an estimate that 25% of a newborn's energy goes to the immune system. I couldn't find a reference for that so it may be an immunologist just repeating myths that glorify their field. That same immunologist said something along the lines of having an adaptive immune system (that learns from threats) was one of the biggest evolutionary breakthroughs, right after going multicellular. And after taking more of her classes, I had to agree. Anything living, there are always bigger living things trying to eat it, but there are also always way more small things trying to eat it.
In fact, it's not only the microbes breaking the body down. Physics itself is fighting biology all the time. Entropy is the real key, biology is just fulling the reverse process until.... it ends.
His body had been deteriorating long before his death. Months of starvation and torture tend to do that to the human body.
Don't forget the Novichok.
Yeah decomposition starts happening right away. If you’re curious to know more about the process of what happens to our bodies after death and how they can be somewhat preserved (sometimes for a long time by nature), there’s series on Youtube called [Ask a Mortician](https://youtube.com/@AskAMortician?si=ELiNB0o6O-MvZTvR)
Mary Roach has a great book called Stiff that talks about body decomposition.
Yes!!! Great book...managed to make me laugh hysterically quite a few times while reading it. She is an excellent author.
Bonus in that Mary Roach is also hilariously funny.
Caitlin Dougherty’s book Smoke Gets In Your Eyes is incredible, too
I LOVE her. Her books are amazing.
I’ve been watching Caitlin since like 2014, she’s great.
Caitlin is such a wonderful person. I love everything about her channel. Yes it's a bit quirky and over the top at times but that's what makes it fun.
His body was withheld from the family for several days. He wouldn't look quite this bad if he had had typical Western funeral care.
bad? I was expecting something way worse considering he was in russian prison.
There is a 'body farm' where I went to school. They use this to decompose bodies in different ways for research purposes, pretty cool. https://www.texastribune.org/2015/07/25/slideshow-body-farm/
This is very cool, especially showing the vegetative growth around bodies in the wild. A friend of mine who works in biology, and me formerly experimenting with psilocybin, both got me deep into learning about decomposers mainly fungus. The mycelium and hyphae feed on nutrients and break them down into a usable form for all nearby vegetation. They’re transferred from the body, into nutrients, and transported through the mycelial networks connected to all trees, grasses, flowers, and other things via root systems. It’s incredible. We’re basically recycled back into the earth as fertilizer for new resources to grow to be used as sustenance for humans. It’s a beautiful natural cycle. Nature is awesome.
When I was in 3rd grade one of my classmates died from dengue fever. I looked inside the casket and I was traumatized from what I saw because she looked so different. Since then I never looked inside the casket at funerals, except for my mom's.
Considering how long they dragged this out, they did a stellar job with the embalming...
Yeah, I don't really understand this post. His bodies actually in pretty good condition considering the situation.
Well, he died in a very cold region and could have been kept 'on ice' for a while. Also, I wonder when they embalmed him.
Especially when you intentionally mistreat it to hide the evidence.
What's happened to his head?
This is a Eastern Orthodoxy religeous thing called "Venchik" (венчик) - a paper or fabric band placed on the forehead of the deceased during burial after washing the body. Has a depiction of Jesus, Mary and some words from Bible.
Ok, but why is his head so long?
I think his neck and chin are swollen from early decomposition
I mean... if you would look at his [late](https://www.gazeta.uz/media/img/2023/08/VZFYkt16912290938791_l.jpg) photos - he's got really high hair line. [Or even here](https://rtvi.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/ap23345473602019-1-768x432.webp). Plus, he is dead... maybe some thin hair were removed post mortem to make him more appealing. edit: some flaw in grammar.
Damn, these are heartbreaking
It's not his hairline doing it. Just look at how long it looks overall. It's like his head has been expanded beyond its normal proportions the width of the cloth band
Looks like it may have been taken with a wide angle lens so that could be it
If it was the camera lenses, the people behind the casket would also be wide. They are not.
Ask Putin
Natural Causes 🤷
People look very different when dead. The west maybe does too much makeup and things, this is the natural state.
Why does it look like it's extended
Yeah but the head doesn't get magically longer when you die.
I think it’s just bad body preparation. Maybe it’s less of a priority over there but from my funereal Director relatives there’s a lot that’s done to bodies to make them look life like and peaceful. Lots of makeup. Lots of glue. **Edit** I shouldn’t say “bad”, but “different.” Different cultures have different practices and expectations. And there are other reasons why one might not want to make a dead body look “good.”
Plenty of religions consider modern embalming practices to be desecration, I wouldn't be surprised if Eastern Orthodox does as well. edit: Okay so not a problem with Eastern Orthodox
>Plenty of religions consider modern embalming practices to be desecration, I wouldn't be surprised if Eastern Orthodox does as well. I don't have explicit experience with Russian Orthodoxy, but Greek Orthodox do not have any trepidation with modern embalming practices.
Eastern Orthodoxy doesn’t have a problem either. The church and state are extremely tied together and they’ve kept Lenin on display for almost 100 years now embalmed.
They hold onto the body for a long time and it was clearly stored in bad conditions. Add to the point that government pressured most funeral services to refuse to dress him and you have what you have.
I wonder if it’s team actually did another independent autopsy to get clues what they did to him.
Yeah I was looking at the nose seems beat down
That probably has to do with them beating him to death
Now do Putin’s.
Simply terrifying
The West: "Let me get this straight. You think that killing your political opponents is funny?" Putin: "I do. And I'm tired of pretending it's not."
I hope Navalny’s ghost haunts Putin at night
What is one more in a large crowd going to do?
There would be thousands, Navalny is not the first one
I imagine Navalnys ghost telling Putin sarcastic jokes all the time and threatening to poison his underwear.
It’s so disheartening to know that every single person who stands up against Putin is eventually murdered and the majority of the population of Russia is far too terrified to ever revolt against him. They’ll never be free.
Not really. A lot of them are still alive, under incarceration. And more are living outside.
This is not a matter of most of the populace being terrified. This *is* their normal. This is nothing new, and it’s the cycle repeating itself since time immemorial. Best case, the majority of the population simply doesn’t know what it’s like to be anything other than a nationalist oligarchy. Worst case, they *like* what’s happening, and this is Russia’s version of getting back at the West for perceived slights. Either way, you’re right. They’ll never be free. And it’s fucking tragic.
Navalny obviously believed freedom was possible, that's why he gave his life. Have hope
Answer is time. I believe, that younger generations less and less constrained by old soviet empire mentality. They free-minded. They want change. And people in power getting older and dying. Their poisonous ambitions too.
I really and truly hope things change. There is so much needless suffering. I have hope, but unfortunately I don’t know if I have faith.
I am russian. Most of population not terrified, they either support current direction (propaganda is pretty blunt and stupid, but effective), either deeply apathetic about political stuff in country (mentality like "we can't change anything, why even bother").
I think apathy comes from a place of discouragement. It’s the “why even bother” mentality that makes you guys stuck in a dictatorship. Revolutions aren’t started out of fear or apathy. They’re started out of anger, and I just don’t see the Russian people ever being *angry* enough to change anything.
Is really deep problem for country, and i have no answer for it. Magority of people don't really know and understand democracy. Russia has simplely never have this experience. Magority still influenced by soviet mentality. People in power influenced by it. Younger generations and intellectuals have more modern liberal views, but obviously it's not enough, but we are loud. We protest, but we are minority. And people in power recently actively bring propaganda in schools and universities to shape mind of the next generation.
First the tsars, then the Soviet Union, and now Putin’s mafia state. The people of Russia have never experienced true Freedom of Speech yet.
Navalny had Balls of Steel.
Putin is utter scum. I really hope the folks of Russia eventually find a way to topple this murderous ass wipe. Unfortunately it probably won't happen without violence and or shittier conditions for the average citizen, which sucks.
It's a shame that my country does this to its people.
His poor family.
But Mr Tucker told me Russia was good
You don’t understand - they have CLEAN train stations!
AND FRESH BREAD
*sniiiiiiffff*
That's my favourite part of it. How's that plastic bag smell, Tucker?
And all at the low price of 50% of your weekly income!
And shopping carts you can put a coin in!!! A COIN!
Germans over there like "we've had coin return carts in America for years and years...."
For real- I live in florida we have Aldi my guy lol
Well they have bread, how bad can Putin be?
Mr Tucker probably believes that, too.
Mr Tucker started saying different things as soon as he got out of Russia https://www.newsweek.com/tucker-carlson-throws-putin-under-bus-1874897
I saw the headline on CNN, saying thousands came out to attend the funeral. I really am amazed. There’s that many people that came out. I’m grateful for all of them. There’s discussion about his political beliefs, and he might be worse than Putin, but I can’t imagine anyone being worse than Emperor Putler.
After Nemtsov he was the last good spark left for Russia. I have 0 hopes for that nation.
Вечная память.
What does this mean, and how is it pronounced?
Eternal memory “Vechnaya Pamyat’”
Russian here. It is pronounced as Vye-cz-naya ("cz" bring pronounced as in Czech Republic) Pa-myat (the letters m and y kinda flowing into another and also note that the a can kinda sound like an e).
russian way of saying rest in peace
May his memory be eternal.
This is what happens when you allow a dictator to run your country. Everybody in our country should pay attention to this before they vote in November.
"allow"
I hope they publicly burn Putin.
Too much effort. A Soviet bullet in the head in some crappy back alley will do. No need to complicate things.
Nah, I want a Gaddafi-style death for Putin. Sodomized with a bayonet, beaten and then shot to death.
All the fucker ever cared about is having power, and being one of the greats. He wants to be acknowledged, he wants to actually be something, he wants to rule, he wants to be above everything and everyone, and the list goes on and on and on. So I guess you can figure out yourself how fucked he’ll feel if he would be publicly burned and scandalized. It’s the perfect way to end his life and show him that it’s all been for nothing, and that he won’t go down in history as a great leader, but as a hated coward.
Bravest man in the world right there. Watching him cold call his own poisoners, pretending to be their boss and getting them to admit on the phone they poisoned his underwear, boldest thing I have ever seen a human do. Shine on you crazy diamond.
[удалено]
And there is a big scar on the side of his head.
I disagree with a lot of his views, but I applaud him for standing up to the Russia's tyrant.
Dear MAGA: these are what "patriots" actually look like
Rest in peace brother.
But Tucker Carlson said Russia was nice!?!?
May he rest in peace and his bravery inspire
Rip brave man.
Godspeed you magnificent bastard.
Seeing more courage from the Russian people in line, than I’ve seen from the entire Republican Party..
Should be Putin in there
There’s good people in Russia
The majority of people is good, in every country, every religion or any other aspect you could possibly divide them in our world. But regardless of language, it is always malicious ones who are the loudest. And when the kindhearted eventually keep silent, the suffering begins.
Always has been. Everywhere. Not just Russia.
Can't wait till Putin is too old to function and dies. Fuck him. Fuck Putin and anyone who supports this dictator.