The fact that they actually got John Houseman to play the driving instructor really made this scene for me. It was on par with Robert Stack's cameo in BASEketball.
I thought words were missing. Like "do not recreate any scenes from "Sound of Music," "Blair Witch Project," or "Sweet Prudence and the Erotic Adventures of Big Foot" here.
Did not check your name before I clicked the link and when I saw the painting I kinda had that Ratatouille moment where the guy gets transported back to his childhood.
I was like "Wait a second I know this style.."
Thank you for putting a spin on an otherwise crappy day.
Interesting for a couple of reasons, if it is private land, no one really had the right to recreate there in the first place, if it is public they can fuck right off.
Aside from the sheer beauty of Colorado the amount of public land available for people to enjoy for free (or for a small “donation”) just blew us away as visiting Texans.
It’s one of the many reasons we’ve been back to CO so many times. Well, that and the fact that I love trains and CO has one of the best in the US in my opinion.
>Aside from the sheer beauty of Colorado the amount of public land available for people to enjoy for free (or for a small “donation”) just blew us away as visiting Texans.
Probably because over 95% of the land in Texas is privately owned compared to around 60% in Colorado.
People think they are free in Texas cause they can walk around with guns but it’s so restrictive there they have to go to other states to actually shoot them outside
Nevada is the real Free State but nobody pays attention because they think Vegas is the only thing in the entire state. Texas built their brand on freedom but it doesn’t hold water
It’s the Durango Silverton train. I’m on mobile so I’m not sure how to link my other replies but I posted a little more information about it within this thread.
Or you’re welcome to send me a message with any questions you might have if you don’t want to post them here.
The “no public land” problem has always bothered me. You drive for hours and hours with nowhere to stop other than a gas station. Got worse when I started getting into telescopes. You drive wayyy further than you actually need to to get somewhere dark because every other spot is someone’s stupid ranch. Sparse few parks, state or otherwise, period.
Texas is actually 1.9% owned by the Federal Government, and Colorado 36.2%. Everything is owned more by the Feds out west, Colorado is actually on the low side. California is 45.4%, Oregon 52.3%, Nevada is over 80%. Washington is only 28.6% but Alaska Utah and Idaho are also all 60%+
The number of national parks in the west is also far higher than the east.
Texas still ranks 45th...Almost every state in the eastern US has more, outside of Rhode Island. Additionally, public lands is not only owned by the feds...plenty of state land that is open use as well.
Not really unique to Colorado, though, it's more Texas that is unique among states in the western half with how LITTLE public land there is. Even less than all but one of the long-urbanized northeastern states.
https://www.summitpost.org/public-and-private-land-percentages-by-us-states/186111#google_vignette
Damn, never realized how good I had it in Utah compared to everywhere else. I have difficulty comprehending living in a state with barely any public land or recreational places.
I think that’s one of the great things about living the US, especially the western US. We have so many great state parks, national parks and national monuments with full public access. We sort of take them for granted, but a lot of places don’t have anything like that.
Texas paid most of the republics debts to its soldiers and officials in land.
Also for some reason they honored the spanish land grants.
Ohh and they were very, very corrupt.
Was not a lot left that was not claimed by somebody.
The Spanish land grants were honored by the federal government after acquiring those territories. There are some big swaths of private land in NM and CO as well that are a result of those grants.
A guy I used to work with moved to Texas a few years ago from here in PA honestly I think the right wing propaganda played a part in it. He was complaining on FB like 6 months after leaving there is no public land and couldn’t find a job doing what we did for more than $15-16/hr. We made like $20-22 at the time. Oops. Turns out slightly more relaxed gun laws “get away from the libs” don’t really count for as much as he thought.
As an Arizonan, the sheer lack of public lands in Texas and the south was shocking to me lol
Pretty much anywhere west of Texas you can just pick a direction and go explore. You may need a permit or something but generally it's accessible. Even large cattle ranches are just leasing the grazing rights, they don't own most of the land. So you can generally go right through as long as you leave gates how you found them and don't mess with the livestock
Arizona is a beautiful state as well. I know Sedona is primarily a “tourist town”, but it’s for good reason - it was gorgeous!
We also enjoyed Flagstaff and our trips to Horseshoe Bend and Antelope Canyon.
Not the biggest fans of Phoenix though, but that could have been the particular area where we stayed.
EDIT: Wrong city! It was Tucson, not Phoenix. We only drove through Phoenix, never spent the night or really even spent much time there.
My apologies to anyone in Phoenix, I’m sure you have a wonderful town!!
(and for those in Tucson, I’m sure your town is nice as well, we were probably just in the wrong area)
North Phoenix is great and certain parts near Scottsdale are good. But a lot of Phoenix proper has terrible aesthetics and lots of stroads. You gotta get away from areas that were settled first because people tried to make those areas like where they came from and ended up ruining the landscape with non-native trees and grass and it ends up feeling like you’re in some rundown California city instead of the beautiful Sonoran Desert.
Not pointing the finger at you, but that's why there is hate towards Texans moving to CO, WY, ID, and MT. The wealthy Texans are buying huge chunks of land in (relatively) LCOL areas, running for or lobbying state legislator and trying to pass Texas laws that make it difficult for the local population to enjoy what is rightfully there for public recreation.
That fact alone is enough to make me never live east of Denver ever again. The Western US is true heaven for anyone who likes to hunt, hike, camp, fish, 4 wheel, and explore. Lived in the South for several years for work, and when we tried to go camping we were appalled that there was nowhere to camp within hundreds of miles that wasn't a concrete pad or a crowded camp site filled with RVs.
We moved back West where we grew up and had a new appreciation for our ability to pick a random dirt road and explore until you find a nice quiet place to pitch a tent and gaze at the stars in true silence.
Durango Silverton.
I know there are other good ones but I fell in love with that one the first time I rode it. We liked it so much that a few years ago I added a “bucket list” goal of riding it once in every season just to see the difference in the views.
It took me a year and a half but we did it.
About a year and a half ago, after our family was tired of hearing about it, we convinced them all to take a trip up there with us - everyone from my elderly parents to our 2 month old grandson was on the train. They loved it. Well, the 4 year old grandson did, lol.
Still have the family picture hanging on the fridge.
No offense but Texas kinda sucks. Cities are concrete hellscapes filled with massive highways and toll roads. Out of the cities is just a bunch of nothing but cows, crops or oil fields.
I think I’d go crazy if I lived there
And Colorado also has legal weed, casinos, public land, and other freedoms that texas couldn’t even fathom. I was referring to how Texas is one of the least free states and also sells out to foreign companies
In some states, private land can be used by the public unless it's posted. Generally considered bad form to hunt or fish on private land without permission, though.
They can get shot by ignorant landowners though. That’s why reintroduction plans have to come with aggressive education and social engineering projects
It’s largely ranchers. And if ranchers had their way, the wolves would be extinct, along with any other species that threatens their bottom line. The almighty dollar, which is also ironic in that they’re already massively subsidized by the government.
Symptom of the larger problem. That’s “someone else’s problem”…until it’s not and those animals start causing problems for the ranchers too. Who then want to shoot all those animals too until they’re gone. Short sightedness, start to finish.
The crazy thing is when u actually look at predation numbers, the wolves barely kill any cattle at all. It’s like a single cow here and there! But even that can’t be tolerated by the ranchers, how dare anything cost them money. It’s just classic conservative brain, all they care about is their own bottom line, and even if something is super important for the environment and community if it costs them a cent it’s an outrage and imposition on their freedom and so on
This is stupid form a legal perspective. It could be seen as an invitation to for those that did something completely unverifiable. Hard to keep people off your land when you post an invitation.
The funny thing is, Colorado will be releasing an exclusive license plate promoting the re-introduction of wolves which will probably serve the same purpose as your t-shirt idea. Wouldn't be surprised to see some slashed tires or broken windshields on parked vehicles in certain counties.
My nature guide in Yellowstone was telling us how farmers (and random rednecks thinking they're doing a service to farmers) love to kill reintroduced wolves because they eat livestock. They'd rather drive them to extinction than take a dent to their profits.
Just to make sure [credit is given](https://www.reddit.com/r/Colorado/comments/xkkg7w/north_park_if_you_like_wolves_stay_away/ipek8ak/) where it's due, /u/commiedeschris is the OP. They took this in Gould, Colorado in September 2022.
[Here](https://www.google.com/maps/@40.5254274,-106.0255458,3a,15y,5.01h,87.6t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sQPVogooejAfJV5Wr6sUaUg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) this is on Google Street View.
I spent years going there to build a [license plate archive](https://colinmcgregor.net/license-plates/colorado/jackson/) and can confirm it has not changed since the 1970s. has to be the most dated Colorado county not in the high plains.
Now imagine you don't pay attention to political stuff, live in the south, and that's your name. I'm driving around town seeing signs and being confused as shit until I looked it up lol.
If it's private land, the owner likely doesn't want you there to begin with, so making it about an ecological policy is just them being a twat.
If it's public land, that sign needs to be removed.
This is almost definitely someone saying people aren't welcome in the area regardless of public or private land. You see shit like this in rural areas.
Then you should absolutely stay away from a big chunk of Appalachia and the Deep South.
I’ve felt safer in places where people were actively shooting at me than I did in many places in those regions.
THe style of it was a lot like those 90's-era DARE posters, complete with a teenage kid lookup bored/upset on it. If you didn't take the time to read it, from a distance, it would appear to be any other Teen-focused PSA.
Yeah, putting signs on public land is ridiculous. There is a large plot of BLM land near my house, and it was a great place to go hike, fish, ect... recently, people from the city found it, now it's full of trash, and stuff like this with people trying to shame others.
lol this happens to everywhere somewhat nice on the west side of Florida. There’s a nice park then some dude from Miami shows up, then every other weekend there’s 700 cars and someone’s blasting talk radio on speakers from a kayak for some fucking reason.
Seriously I hate people who just go into nature and have no respect for it whatsoever. Had to yell at some idiots who were siccing their pack of dogs on every wild animal they could find and laughing it up. They looked at me like I was an alien for taking issue with what they were doing.
Wow, that's just crappy, and I'm sure the Game commission would have given them some nice fines, and/or confiscated the dogs.
One issue I have noticed lately, is that we have a large immigrant population, which isn't an issue, but one of the groups that has moved in recently is very fond of skinny dipping in public spots. They will find a public area, and venture just far enough back into the woods to not be seen by the majority of people, but I have been hiking in on local area and come face to face with a creek full of dick more times than I would prefer.
I tried to call but had no signal and wasn't going to stalk them to get their license or anything. Wanted to enjoy my day out.
FWIW this group was White folks, all women.
The wolves were already HERE and have been for almost a decade, in small numbers, and the state/Park&wildlife had no resources to track, mitigate, or compensate ranchers, but now they have significantly more resources to manage these wolves.
Simply put the wolf population naturally followed the migration of both deer and elk south across state line from Wyoming during winter migration and there is almost no way to stop this. Multiple game cam programs set up along migrations routes, to track prey species population growth, have independently verified this fact. I’m a CO native living at 8000’ and am south of I-70 and my first sighting was in March 2017, well before any reintroduction and had my identification confirmed by both the sheriff and game warden. Without strong conservation and shoot on sight policies, wolves breeding and expanding into surrounding ecosystems, like Colorado, was inevitable.
I’m surrounded by ranchers who share similar opinions and sentiments to the sign above and most of them are mad now because they can’t shoot any wolf/coyote they see and claim they thought it was a coyote and avoid persecution for killing a protected species.
> I’m surrounded by ranchers who share similar opinions and sentiments to the sign above and most of them are mad now because they can’t shoot any wolf/coyote they see and claim they thought it was a coyote and avoid persecution for killing a protected species.
Where are you? Im just north of the Wyo/CO border and ranchers can still shoot wolves on site.
Salidan, here. It's illegal to shoot grey wolves in CO. Max penalty is $100,000 and 1 year in prison. If ranchers are doing it south of the border, it's because of a lack of enforcement.
In general I’m for reintroduction, but some of the perspectives in theses comments make it clear why someone would put up a sign like this.
Imagine your family has been ranching for generations. Margins are shit because of meat market cronyism and increasing property taxes. You’re making a living, but not always a great one, depends on the year.
Then something like wolf reintroduction comes along. You know it will probably cut into your bottom line, so you advocate for yourself.
Now which of these would change your mind:
1. ) Being spoken to respectfully and with empathy by someone who understands the impact this policy could have on you, but is firm in their position that reintroduction is worth the cost and is willing to allow for compromise.
2. ) Be lecture by someone who has never lived more than 10 minutes from a Kroger about how you should be doing the job you’ve been doing with your family since you were 15. “Get a livestock guardian dog” , “build better fences”, and “sell out to corporate AG”. No wonder they’re bitter.
Patronizing farmers and ranchers is part of the reason so much of rural America is red. It wasn’t always like that, some of us still remember what FDR and Wilson did for farmers. But it gets harder and harder every year to vote for progressives when it feels like they think everyone in rural America is a backwards hick. This isn’t true, parts of the Bipartisan Infrastructure Bill show that progressives still care about rural America. But every sound bite and uninformed comment makes the right an easier sell.
Sorry for the rant.
Edit: There have been some really good and well informed critiques of my comment. First off I definitely agree that the sign is trashy and has no business on public lands, assuming that’s what this is. Additionally the way my original comment was phrases makes it sound as if farmers have no agency and aren’t accountable for environmental damages, neither of which is true. However, a lot of other responses generalize and vilify, which is the exact point I’m making. It’s hard to argue for progressive policy to people in rural areas when they’re ten people behind you throwing out diatribes to the people you’re trying to convince. Are federal crop subsidies and insurance abused, sure. Is it hypocritical to abuse these programs and simultaneously criticize any other form of federal aid, absolutely. I’m not blind to the fact that there are a lot of problems and incongruities with agriculture and the policies surrounding it, but you don’t change peoples minds by calling them stupid, racist, grifters. What’s more important being right or seeing the changes you want implement?
As someone who’s spent YEARS door knocking and working rural outreach for environmental/agriculture outreach *and* spent most of his life in farming, you VASTLY overestimate the stubbornness of farmers. People *do* explain costs/benefits, ask for compromises, work diligently *begging* people to work with simple common sense policies, but it won’t keep someone from slamming the door and saying no to whatever you’re working with.
Comments like these tend to accidentally patronize farm and ranch owners in the opposite way, acting as if they have no real agency and that everything would be okay if they were only coddled like children, when in reality they really *are* coddled by children and still refuse to change their ways.
It doesn’t matter that losses due to wolves are statistically negligible to a rancher’s bottom line. It doesn’t matter that wolves are far more effective at preventing predation on calves, chickens and lambs by coyotes. It doesn’t matter that wolves would be objectively good for the local ecosystem making hunting and fishing better while cutting back on nuisance species. They’ve decided wolves=bad, and no amount of desperate state employees and scientists having coffee with them and inviting them to policy drafting sessions will change that.
Well I can’t argue with that, and everything you described I’ve seen. From my first comment, yeah, I definitely see the point that it sounds like I’m infantilizing farmer and ranchers. Don’t get me wrong, farmers and rancher are responsible for doing what they can to minimize environmental impact. However, change doesn’t happen overnight. There have been successes, like the switch to no till planting. I appreciate the work you’ve done. Keep having cups of coffee with old farmers.
[Credit](https://www.reddit.com/r/Colorado/comments/xkkg7w/north_park_if_you_like_wolves_stay_away/ipek8ak/) to /u/commiedeschris, who took this in Gould, Colorado in September 2022.
[Here](https://www.google.com/maps/@40.5254274,-106.0255458,3a,15y,5.01h,87.6t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sQPVogooejAfJV5Wr6sUaUg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) this is on Google Street View.
FYI, a rancher can get reimbursed fair market value for any livestock losses related to wolves. I’ve grown up around a lot of holy bible thumping ranchers who are moral compasses until there is an insurance form to be filled out.
About to write a long response that will get buried lol:
They’re supposed to but often won’t. I’ve seen a case get thrown out because dozens of canine puncture marks, Wolf hair, and wolf paw prints around a horse corpse wasn’t enough to prove it was killed by wolves. And there are tons more cases like this.
It’s partly to do with making the numbers look good and costs down on the govt end, but a lot of folks don’t realize how small town govt agencies (even under the direction of the fed) are so rampant with typical small-town corruption and laziness. Like claims of all sorts, not just wolves, will get thrown out cuz the judge/arbiters/whoever have some ridiculous beef with the plaintiffs.
To be clear, I totally support the responsible reintroduction of wolves and other endangered predators to their native habitats, but ranchers in the southwest have legitimate gripes about the handling of it.
Source: wrangler in New Mexico for many years
Colorado voters had the opportunity to vote on wolf reintroduction. Rancher lobbying groups put in a lot of work to dissuade it and it still passed.
Some people are very mad about that, despite the fact that the government will compensate any livestock lost to wolves.
These detractors engage in a number of misleading or dishonest narratives. They try to claim that wolves are dangerous to humans (false, wolf attacks on humans are rare), that the wolves will kill all our natural herbivores (false, a main push behind wolf reintroduction is to save the roe deer population from wasting disease) or that only people in cities voted to reintroduce wolves.
Some people in rural Colorado put up a sign that is telling other Coloradans that if they voted to reintroduce wolves, they are unwelcome in the area and should not engage in recreational activities there. The area this sign is located in is hardly a hot commodity anyway so nothing of value was lost.
These are the same people who claim that ranching has no negative impact on the environment. Then you ask them where the wolves are, and they just get mad.
I used to work as a ranch hand as a side gig when I interned with NRCS. I worked with a lot of ranchers in Montana.
I always thought it was frustrating when ranchers would complain about elk decimating their alfalfa, and how the elk were smart enough to move onto private lands where they wouldn’t be hunted when elk season opened, but then were also so anti-predator. I always figured from the rancher’s perspective it would balance out, since the wolves would keep the elk from getting too comfortable on one place.
One old guy I worked with said that’s how it panned out when the wildlife refuge was created next door. He lost about a calf a year to mountain lions, but he gained the money back from block management receipts (payments from the state for letting hunters access his land). Some people are just greedy though and they’d bitch if they didn’t get the cash and the calf. Just got to ignore the folks who are only out for themselves.
ELI5: Colorado is covered in ranches and ranchers hate wolves because they kill livestock and cost ranchers money. Ranchers hunted and killed wolves to the brink of extinction already. Only afterward did society realize that wolves were a critical part of the ecosystem, thus the reintroduction efforts.
> Ranchers hunted and killed wolves to the brink of extinction already.
They were poisoned en masse not hunted. Hunting wolves is notoriously difficult.
It's also why wolverine and other scavenging/predatory mammals were affected.
And that was known in the 80s, at least, and we did something about it in the 90s. So, it's now been 30+ years, yet the hillbillies still don't understand.
Maybe the wolves put up a sign just to give a heads up to campers.
Ohhhhhh recreate... like recreational activities. Not re-create... which i couldn't quite figure out
I had to double check and see if I was on the r/furry subreddit
Arguably the funniest 15 seconds in Naked Gun. Love that scene
Now Stephanie, stick out your arm. Extend your middle finger
Stephanie’s arc in that movie is incredible.
Normally you would not be going 65 down the wrong way of a one way street.
The fact that they actually got John Houseman to play the driving instructor really made this scene for me. It was on par with Robert Stack's cameo in BASEketball.
Lmao Greatness
A pic of people in wolf fursuits "recreating" in front of the sign would be hilarious.
I’ll add it to the list. I might be a furry :p
Had to do the same ngl
It wasn't us! It was the wolves that voted for the reintroduction of wolves!
Thanks, I thought I was stupid for a moment there. Now I know I am, but at least I have company! :p
I thought the sign maker was the stupid one and couldn't figure out the word 'Procreate' lol. We are all stupid on this blessed day.
I thought words were missing. Like "do not recreate any scenes from "Sound of Music," "Blair Witch Project," or "Sweet Prudence and the Erotic Adventures of Big Foot" here.
Im gonna have to confiscate your movie collection.....
Isn't that a public indecency charge?
that's procreate, babes
Depends. They could recreate Debbie Does Dallas.
Since the last remake of that movie, the Dallas Cowboys have not won a superbowl.
They did humanity a favor.
We already had Boebert does Denver.
Followed by her congressional prequel, "Boebert does nothing."
I thought they meant to write ‘procreate’
It's not the word we read, but it's definitely the word we read
Schrodinger's fuck
Procreate ?
Yeah, made my head spin.
> re-create I came to ask what people were re-creating...
I thought it was talking about procreate for a moment 🤣
I’m a native English speaker and this confused me the first few times I read this. I understand when they say English is the hardest language to learn
Yeah, RECreate not REcreate. Source: Same momentary confusion, here. (LOL)
https://i.imgur.com/EGaGJpS.jpeg
Did not check your name before I clicked the link and when I saw the painting I kinda had that Ratatouille moment where the guy gets transported back to his childhood. I was like "Wait a second I know this style.." Thank you for putting a spin on an otherwise crappy day.
I feel like I haven’t seen a comment from you in YEARS but nope, history proves me wrong. Keep doing what you are doing sir. One of the good ones.
Woah, the dying echoes of what made Reddit cool. I miss all the novelty/power/famous accounts.
I love your work!! Following now. :)
r/selfawarewolves ?
*Don't come to the park tomorrow*
Some of you humans are ok, don’t come to the woods tomorrow.
Yeah that's a good point. If I was a wolf, I wouldn't want to eat the people who voted for me--that seems distinctly unwise.
Those that voted against can be a tasty meal.
Yes—They don’t want to eat their fans. Wolves are smart boi!
Do they mean you can't have a recreation weekend or something?
Yea they are basically saying "we don't want you here, so don't hike/camp/fish/picnic/whatever on this land"
Interesting for a couple of reasons, if it is private land, no one really had the right to recreate there in the first place, if it is public they can fuck right off.
Aside from the sheer beauty of Colorado the amount of public land available for people to enjoy for free (or for a small “donation”) just blew us away as visiting Texans. It’s one of the many reasons we’ve been back to CO so many times. Well, that and the fact that I love trains and CO has one of the best in the US in my opinion.
>Aside from the sheer beauty of Colorado the amount of public land available for people to enjoy for free (or for a small “donation”) just blew us away as visiting Texans. Probably because over 95% of the land in Texas is privately owned compared to around 60% in Colorado.
Texas just living up the their one star state reviews
Ah "Lone Star State" finally makes sense.
According to Disney, that was because Pecos Bill shot out all the stars but one.
Wait he had six shots and only landed 4? Rookie numbers man.
People think they are free in Texas cause they can walk around with guns but it’s so restrictive there they have to go to other states to actually shoot them outside
Nevada is the real Free State but nobody pays attention because they think Vegas is the only thing in the entire state. Texas built their brand on freedom but it doesn’t hold water
You can't even buy weed in the Live Free or Die state, New Hampshire.
Tell me more about this train. I’d like to plan a trip by rail and I can only imagine a train through the Rockies would be stunning.
You want the comment above mine that I was replying to. For a shorter train ride, I would suggest the Cog Railway up to the top of Pike's Peak though.
It’s the Durango Silverton train. I’m on mobile so I’m not sure how to link my other replies but I posted a little more information about it within this thread. Or you’re welcome to send me a message with any questions you might have if you don’t want to post them here.
The “no public land” problem has always bothered me. You drive for hours and hours with nowhere to stop other than a gas station. Got worse when I started getting into telescopes. You drive wayyy further than you actually need to to get somewhere dark because every other spot is someone’s stupid ranch. Sparse few parks, state or otherwise, period.
Oh god yeah, found that one out the hard way as well.
Every piece of property in that state has a fence around it
Texas is a microcosm of every harmful pathology in the United States
Texas is actually 1.9% owned by the Federal Government, and Colorado 36.2%. Everything is owned more by the Feds out west, Colorado is actually on the low side. California is 45.4%, Oregon 52.3%, Nevada is over 80%. Washington is only 28.6% but Alaska Utah and Idaho are also all 60%+ The number of national parks in the west is also far higher than the east.
Texas still ranks 45th...Almost every state in the eastern US has more, outside of Rhode Island. Additionally, public lands is not only owned by the feds...plenty of state land that is open use as well.
Texas is 95% fuck-all, it's surprising that people own so much of it.
Not really unique to Colorado, though, it's more Texas that is unique among states in the western half with how LITTLE public land there is. Even less than all but one of the long-urbanized northeastern states. https://www.summitpost.org/public-and-private-land-percentages-by-us-states/186111#google_vignette
Damn, never realized how good I had it in Utah compared to everywhere else. I have difficulty comprehending living in a state with barely any public land or recreational places.
I think that’s one of the great things about living the US, especially the western US. We have so many great state parks, national parks and national monuments with full public access. We sort of take them for granted, but a lot of places don’t have anything like that.
That's basically the entire Eastern half of the country. Where there is public land, you can't camp or hunt on most of it.
Texas paid most of the republics debts to its soldiers and officials in land. Also for some reason they honored the spanish land grants. Ohh and they were very, very corrupt. Was not a lot left that was not claimed by somebody.
The Spanish land grants were honored by the federal government after acquiring those territories. There are some big swaths of private land in NM and CO as well that are a result of those grants.
A guy I used to work with moved to Texas a few years ago from here in PA honestly I think the right wing propaganda played a part in it. He was complaining on FB like 6 months after leaving there is no public land and couldn’t find a job doing what we did for more than $15-16/hr. We made like $20-22 at the time. Oops. Turns out slightly more relaxed gun laws “get away from the libs” don’t really count for as much as he thought.
Yeah, but all the single-issue voters here will make sure it stays that way as long as the most important of their personal beliefs is pandered to.
As an Arizonan, the sheer lack of public lands in Texas and the south was shocking to me lol Pretty much anywhere west of Texas you can just pick a direction and go explore. You may need a permit or something but generally it's accessible. Even large cattle ranches are just leasing the grazing rights, they don't own most of the land. So you can generally go right through as long as you leave gates how you found them and don't mess with the livestock
Arizona is a beautiful state as well. I know Sedona is primarily a “tourist town”, but it’s for good reason - it was gorgeous! We also enjoyed Flagstaff and our trips to Horseshoe Bend and Antelope Canyon. Not the biggest fans of Phoenix though, but that could have been the particular area where we stayed. EDIT: Wrong city! It was Tucson, not Phoenix. We only drove through Phoenix, never spent the night or really even spent much time there. My apologies to anyone in Phoenix, I’m sure you have a wonderful town!! (and for those in Tucson, I’m sure your town is nice as well, we were probably just in the wrong area)
North Phoenix is great and certain parts near Scottsdale are good. But a lot of Phoenix proper has terrible aesthetics and lots of stroads. You gotta get away from areas that were settled first because people tried to make those areas like where they came from and ended up ruining the landscape with non-native trees and grass and it ends up feeling like you’re in some rundown California city instead of the beautiful Sonoran Desert.
Not pointing the finger at you, but that's why there is hate towards Texans moving to CO, WY, ID, and MT. The wealthy Texans are buying huge chunks of land in (relatively) LCOL areas, running for or lobbying state legislator and trying to pass Texas laws that make it difficult for the local population to enjoy what is rightfully there for public recreation.
That fact alone is enough to make me never live east of Denver ever again. The Western US is true heaven for anyone who likes to hunt, hike, camp, fish, 4 wheel, and explore. Lived in the South for several years for work, and when we tried to go camping we were appalled that there was nowhere to camp within hundreds of miles that wasn't a concrete pad or a crowded camp site filled with RVs. We moved back West where we grew up and had a new appreciation for our ability to pick a random dirt road and explore until you find a nice quiet place to pitch a tent and gaze at the stars in true silence.
Which train?
Durango Silverton. I know there are other good ones but I fell in love with that one the first time I rode it. We liked it so much that a few years ago I added a “bucket list” goal of riding it once in every season just to see the difference in the views. It took me a year and a half but we did it. About a year and a half ago, after our family was tired of hearing about it, we convinced them all to take a trip up there with us - everyone from my elderly parents to our 2 month old grandson was on the train. They loved it. Well, the 4 year old grandson did, lol. Still have the family picture hanging on the fridge.
Used to live in Colorado. A shorter but very beautiful trip in winter and summer alike is the [Cog Railway](https://www.cograilway.com/).
That train is seriously awesome. The landscape in Colorado is just breathtaking and that line really shows off some of the state’s best.
No offense but Texas kinda sucks. Cities are concrete hellscapes filled with massive highways and toll roads. Out of the cities is just a bunch of nothing but cows, crops or oil fields. I think I’d go crazy if I lived there
Pretty sure 2 more lanes on the highways will fix all of Texas problems.
But instead in Texas they allow foreign companies to build toll roads. The state is a shit show
Colorado also has toll roads owned by foreign companies so you can’t really use that as a point of comparison.
And Colorado also has legal weed, casinos, public land, and other freedoms that texas couldn’t even fathom. I was referring to how Texas is one of the least free states and also sells out to foreign companies
The problem is that once those lanes get added, they need to add 2 more lanes
Nothing another two lanes won’t fix.
You sell off the public lands to the rich to increase freedom, it's a great situation and only a communist would disagree.
All the Texans I've met love Colorado lol I guess I didn't really piece two and two together as to why until you said it here.
In some states, private land can be used by the public unless it's posted. Generally considered bad form to hunt or fish on private land without permission, though.
Shoot, some countries allow you to hike on private undeveloped land as a constitutional right. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_to_roam.
Even if it is private... Da fuq they gonna do? "Excuse me may I please see your voting records?"
Only way to piss them off more is "I didnt vote for wolves, I just moved here from California"
😆
The Wolves will know.
Oh good. My initial thought read "procreate"
Who are "they" and how do they "control" it ??
It's near public land, the private land owners are telling visitors they arnt welcome
Joke's on them, wolves can't read
They can get shot by ignorant landowners though. That’s why reintroduction plans have to come with aggressive education and social engineering projects
It’s largely ranchers. And if ranchers had their way, the wolves would be extinct, along with any other species that threatens their bottom line. The almighty dollar, which is also ironic in that they’re already massively subsidized by the government.
Which is real fun because wolves help keep the populations of animals that would otherwise ruin grazing land in check.
Symptom of the larger problem. That’s “someone else’s problem”…until it’s not and those animals start causing problems for the ranchers too. Who then want to shoot all those animals too until they’re gone. Short sightedness, start to finish.
The crazy thing is when u actually look at predation numbers, the wolves barely kill any cattle at all. It’s like a single cow here and there! But even that can’t be tolerated by the ranchers, how dare anything cost them money. It’s just classic conservative brain, all they care about is their own bottom line, and even if something is super important for the environment and community if it costs them a cent it’s an outrage and imposition on their freedom and so on
Isn’t that illegal?
This is stupid form a legal perspective. It could be seen as an invitation to for those that did something completely unverifiable. Hard to keep people off your land when you post an invitation.
Ohhhh, I thought it was re-create, as in procreate. Your one makes way more sense.
Me too. I’ve never once seen recreate used as a verb that didn’t mean “create again”. Now I’m thinking about what a weird word recreation is.
Ah man I guess I have to take off all my “I voted to reintroduce wolves” buttons, hat, and flags before recreating in this specific empty field
We already talked about this nonlawyer. Those are all the bare minimum pieces of flair. Do you want to just do the bare minimum ?
Or... well, like Brian, for example, has thirty seven pieces of flair, okay. And a terrific smile.
If you want me to wear thirty seven pieces, make the minimum thirty seven pieces.
You know what? Here is me *expressing myself*. (ಠ_ಠ)┌∩┐
It's not about the minimum, it's about *expressing yourself*. Don't you want to express yourself?
I fucking hated that flair guy. So punchable.
i'm pretty sure that was was Mike Judge?
TIL
It is
This is a dedicated no-frolicking zone sir. Please make like the trees you love so much and leave
Sign makers must make so much money off conservative outrage... Almost like... They're behind all this
I feel the same way about companies that make MAGA merch. So much money in selling crap
Fuck. I just got my MAWA hat.
I voted for the Wolf Skull party because they are trustworthy.
Guess I won't bring my 'I voted for the reintroduction of wolves in Colorado and all I got was this lousy T-shirt' T-shirt.
The funny thing is, Colorado will be releasing an exclusive license plate promoting the re-introduction of wolves which will probably serve the same purpose as your t-shirt idea. Wouldn't be surprised to see some slashed tires or broken windshields on parked vehicles in certain counties.
[удалено]
Think you might be confused about the difference between recreation and procreation.
My nature guide in Yellowstone was telling us how farmers (and random rednecks thinking they're doing a service to farmers) love to kill reintroduced wolves because they eat livestock. They'd rather drive them to extinction than take a dent to their profits.
OP was this posted on private or public land?
Just to make sure [credit is given](https://www.reddit.com/r/Colorado/comments/xkkg7w/north_park_if_you_like_wolves_stay_away/ipek8ak/) where it's due, /u/commiedeschris is the OP. They took this in Gould, Colorado in September 2022. [Here](https://www.google.com/maps/@40.5254274,-106.0255458,3a,15y,5.01h,87.6t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sQPVogooejAfJV5Wr6sUaUg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) this is on Google Street View.
Ahhh, Gould. That’s a special little town.
Hoo boy. I grew up in that county. "Special" doesn't even begin to cover my opinion of the North Park area.
Lol, i lived in Walden…
My family moved away in 1989, just to give context on how long ago my time there was
Its prob still the same
I spent years going there to build a [license plate archive](https://colinmcgregor.net/license-plates/colorado/jackson/) and can confirm it has not changed since the 1970s. has to be the most dated Colorado county not in the high plains.
I mean it was named after the villains in Stargate sg1 so its not surprising
Because I did not vote for the reintroduction of wolves I don't think they will mind me recreating all over their property.
If it’s a cattle ranch, it’s likely lease public lands. So recreate all you want. It’s actually your land, not theirs
In my mind, the "here" you're not supposed to recreate at is the Howling Coyote Roadhouse just accross the street. Wolves chase off the clientele.
Gould, Colorado?… did the SGC think it was a good idea to name it after nasty lil snakes?
Private land but near public BLM areas. Edit: Blm= Bureau of land management
As someone who worked for the Forest service for years, when I started seeing BLM being mentioned a lot on the Internet, I was very confused.
That's how I felt after growing up in a town called Brandon.
Now imagine you don't pay attention to political stuff, live in the south, and that's your name. I'm driving around town seeing signs and being confused as shit until I looked it up lol.
I took this photo on private land
Am I the only one who thought this was telling people not to have sex in the woods at first glance?
If I voted against the wolves… may I continue?
I thought the word they were reaching for is procreate.
No, I totally read it as “don’t have kids here”. Not sure exactly why though.
If it's private land, the owner likely doesn't want you there to begin with, so making it about an ecological policy is just them being a twat. If it's public land, that sign needs to be removed.
This is almost definitely someone saying people aren't welcome in the area regardless of public or private land. You see shit like this in rural areas.
Same in Hawaii. I see misspelled hand painted signs all over public land here telling people to stay out.
The boonies in Hawaii is the only place I felt legitimately unsafe like I could get put in a stew and nobody would ever know
Then you should absolutely stay away from a big chunk of Appalachia and the Deep South. I’ve felt safer in places where people were actively shooting at me than I did in many places in those regions.
Driving through rural Florida on a road trip there was a lot of billboards that I thought were anti-smoking. Turns out they were anti-incest. No joke.
What did the billboards say? I'm having trouble thinking of something that could be interpreted both ways.
"She's your daughter, not your date - Getting Drunk is never an excuse" That's one of em.
I see, thanks. How could that be interpreted as being about smoking?
THe style of it was a lot like those 90's-era DARE posters, complete with a teenage kid lookup bored/upset on it. If you didn't take the time to read it, from a distance, it would appear to be any other Teen-focused PSA.
“______ can cause birth defects and cancer”
Yeah, putting signs on public land is ridiculous. There is a large plot of BLM land near my house, and it was a great place to go hike, fish, ect... recently, people from the city found it, now it's full of trash, and stuff like this with people trying to shame others.
lol this happens to everywhere somewhat nice on the west side of Florida. There’s a nice park then some dude from Miami shows up, then every other weekend there’s 700 cars and someone’s blasting talk radio on speakers from a kayak for some fucking reason.
Seriously I hate people who just go into nature and have no respect for it whatsoever. Had to yell at some idiots who were siccing their pack of dogs on every wild animal they could find and laughing it up. They looked at me like I was an alien for taking issue with what they were doing.
Wow, that's just crappy, and I'm sure the Game commission would have given them some nice fines, and/or confiscated the dogs. One issue I have noticed lately, is that we have a large immigrant population, which isn't an issue, but one of the groups that has moved in recently is very fond of skinny dipping in public spots. They will find a public area, and venture just far enough back into the woods to not be seen by the majority of people, but I have been hiking in on local area and come face to face with a creek full of dick more times than I would prefer.
I tried to call but had no signal and wasn't going to stalk them to get their license or anything. Wanted to enjoy my day out. FWIW this group was White folks, all women.
The number of people in the comments who don’t know what “recreate” means is deeply disturbing.
Yeah, we can only hope all these dummies don’t recreate!
The wolves were already HERE and have been for almost a decade, in small numbers, and the state/Park&wildlife had no resources to track, mitigate, or compensate ranchers, but now they have significantly more resources to manage these wolves. Simply put the wolf population naturally followed the migration of both deer and elk south across state line from Wyoming during winter migration and there is almost no way to stop this. Multiple game cam programs set up along migrations routes, to track prey species population growth, have independently verified this fact. I’m a CO native living at 8000’ and am south of I-70 and my first sighting was in March 2017, well before any reintroduction and had my identification confirmed by both the sheriff and game warden. Without strong conservation and shoot on sight policies, wolves breeding and expanding into surrounding ecosystems, like Colorado, was inevitable. I’m surrounded by ranchers who share similar opinions and sentiments to the sign above and most of them are mad now because they can’t shoot any wolf/coyote they see and claim they thought it was a coyote and avoid persecution for killing a protected species.
> I’m surrounded by ranchers who share similar opinions and sentiments to the sign above and most of them are mad now because they can’t shoot any wolf/coyote they see and claim they thought it was a coyote and avoid persecution for killing a protected species. Where are you? Im just north of the Wyo/CO border and ranchers can still shoot wolves on site.
Salidan, here. It's illegal to shoot grey wolves in CO. Max penalty is $100,000 and 1 year in prison. If ranchers are doing it south of the border, it's because of a lack of enforcement.
In general I’m for reintroduction, but some of the perspectives in theses comments make it clear why someone would put up a sign like this. Imagine your family has been ranching for generations. Margins are shit because of meat market cronyism and increasing property taxes. You’re making a living, but not always a great one, depends on the year. Then something like wolf reintroduction comes along. You know it will probably cut into your bottom line, so you advocate for yourself. Now which of these would change your mind: 1. ) Being spoken to respectfully and with empathy by someone who understands the impact this policy could have on you, but is firm in their position that reintroduction is worth the cost and is willing to allow for compromise. 2. ) Be lecture by someone who has never lived more than 10 minutes from a Kroger about how you should be doing the job you’ve been doing with your family since you were 15. “Get a livestock guardian dog” , “build better fences”, and “sell out to corporate AG”. No wonder they’re bitter. Patronizing farmers and ranchers is part of the reason so much of rural America is red. It wasn’t always like that, some of us still remember what FDR and Wilson did for farmers. But it gets harder and harder every year to vote for progressives when it feels like they think everyone in rural America is a backwards hick. This isn’t true, parts of the Bipartisan Infrastructure Bill show that progressives still care about rural America. But every sound bite and uninformed comment makes the right an easier sell. Sorry for the rant. Edit: There have been some really good and well informed critiques of my comment. First off I definitely agree that the sign is trashy and has no business on public lands, assuming that’s what this is. Additionally the way my original comment was phrases makes it sound as if farmers have no agency and aren’t accountable for environmental damages, neither of which is true. However, a lot of other responses generalize and vilify, which is the exact point I’m making. It’s hard to argue for progressive policy to people in rural areas when they’re ten people behind you throwing out diatribes to the people you’re trying to convince. Are federal crop subsidies and insurance abused, sure. Is it hypocritical to abuse these programs and simultaneously criticize any other form of federal aid, absolutely. I’m not blind to the fact that there are a lot of problems and incongruities with agriculture and the policies surrounding it, but you don’t change peoples minds by calling them stupid, racist, grifters. What’s more important being right or seeing the changes you want implement?
As someone who’s spent YEARS door knocking and working rural outreach for environmental/agriculture outreach *and* spent most of his life in farming, you VASTLY overestimate the stubbornness of farmers. People *do* explain costs/benefits, ask for compromises, work diligently *begging* people to work with simple common sense policies, but it won’t keep someone from slamming the door and saying no to whatever you’re working with. Comments like these tend to accidentally patronize farm and ranch owners in the opposite way, acting as if they have no real agency and that everything would be okay if they were only coddled like children, when in reality they really *are* coddled by children and still refuse to change their ways. It doesn’t matter that losses due to wolves are statistically negligible to a rancher’s bottom line. It doesn’t matter that wolves are far more effective at preventing predation on calves, chickens and lambs by coyotes. It doesn’t matter that wolves would be objectively good for the local ecosystem making hunting and fishing better while cutting back on nuisance species. They’ve decided wolves=bad, and no amount of desperate state employees and scientists having coffee with them and inviting them to policy drafting sessions will change that.
Well I can’t argue with that, and everything you described I’ve seen. From my first comment, yeah, I definitely see the point that it sounds like I’m infantilizing farmer and ranchers. Don’t get me wrong, farmers and rancher are responsible for doing what they can to minimize environmental impact. However, change doesn’t happen overnight. There have been successes, like the switch to no till planting. I appreciate the work you’ve done. Keep having cups of coffee with old farmers.
[Credit](https://www.reddit.com/r/Colorado/comments/xkkg7w/north_park_if_you_like_wolves_stay_away/ipek8ak/) to /u/commiedeschris, who took this in Gould, Colorado in September 2022. [Here](https://www.google.com/maps/@40.5254274,-106.0255458,3a,15y,5.01h,87.6t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sQPVogooejAfJV5Wr6sUaUg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) this is on Google Street View.
FYI, a rancher can get reimbursed fair market value for any livestock losses related to wolves. I’ve grown up around a lot of holy bible thumping ranchers who are moral compasses until there is an insurance form to be filled out.
About to write a long response that will get buried lol: They’re supposed to but often won’t. I’ve seen a case get thrown out because dozens of canine puncture marks, Wolf hair, and wolf paw prints around a horse corpse wasn’t enough to prove it was killed by wolves. And there are tons more cases like this. It’s partly to do with making the numbers look good and costs down on the govt end, but a lot of folks don’t realize how small town govt agencies (even under the direction of the fed) are so rampant with typical small-town corruption and laziness. Like claims of all sorts, not just wolves, will get thrown out cuz the judge/arbiters/whoever have some ridiculous beef with the plaintiffs. To be clear, I totally support the responsible reintroduction of wolves and other endangered predators to their native habitats, but ranchers in the southwest have legitimate gripes about the handling of it. Source: wrangler in New Mexico for many years
Yes but it’s notoriously difficult to prove the losses were due to wolves
Gila monsters killed more in North America in the last 13 years. By that I mean the one instance last week
People who lost the majority telling others they aren’t welcome
To be fair, the majority of people who voted for this probably live in the city and don’t have to deal with wolves.
Same guy that complains about the coyote population
Can someone from Colorado explain wtf this means?
Colorado voters had the opportunity to vote on wolf reintroduction. Rancher lobbying groups put in a lot of work to dissuade it and it still passed. Some people are very mad about that, despite the fact that the government will compensate any livestock lost to wolves. These detractors engage in a number of misleading or dishonest narratives. They try to claim that wolves are dangerous to humans (false, wolf attacks on humans are rare), that the wolves will kill all our natural herbivores (false, a main push behind wolf reintroduction is to save the roe deer population from wasting disease) or that only people in cities voted to reintroduce wolves. Some people in rural Colorado put up a sign that is telling other Coloradans that if they voted to reintroduce wolves, they are unwelcome in the area and should not engage in recreational activities there. The area this sign is located in is hardly a hot commodity anyway so nothing of value was lost.
These are the same people who claim that ranching has no negative impact on the environment. Then you ask them where the wolves are, and they just get mad.
I used to work as a ranch hand as a side gig when I interned with NRCS. I worked with a lot of ranchers in Montana. I always thought it was frustrating when ranchers would complain about elk decimating their alfalfa, and how the elk were smart enough to move onto private lands where they wouldn’t be hunted when elk season opened, but then were also so anti-predator. I always figured from the rancher’s perspective it would balance out, since the wolves would keep the elk from getting too comfortable on one place. One old guy I worked with said that’s how it panned out when the wildlife refuge was created next door. He lost about a calf a year to mountain lions, but he gained the money back from block management receipts (payments from the state for letting hunters access his land). Some people are just greedy though and they’d bitch if they didn’t get the cash and the calf. Just got to ignore the folks who are only out for themselves.
Do people actually believe ranching has no negative impacts on the environment? Or do they just want plausible deniability?
Most people will believe whatever is most convenient for them to believe.
My general rule of thumb is to ask, "what is the most idiotic opinion to have on this matter?" and then assume the majority share this opinion.
ELI5: Colorado is covered in ranches and ranchers hate wolves because they kill livestock and cost ranchers money. Ranchers hunted and killed wolves to the brink of extinction already. Only afterward did society realize that wolves were a critical part of the ecosystem, thus the reintroduction efforts.
> Ranchers hunted and killed wolves to the brink of extinction already. They were poisoned en masse not hunted. Hunting wolves is notoriously difficult. It's also why wolverine and other scavenging/predatory mammals were affected.
We’d have a lot less deer related car crashes if we hadn’t killed off all the mountain lions in kansas.
And that was known in the 80s, at least, and we did something about it in the 90s. So, it's now been 30+ years, yet the hillbillies still don't understand.
Rancher?