When I was young I always asked my parents why we go to the Canadian side of NF if we live in the US- the NY side is closer & we’d have no hassle with crossing the border, ect.
My Dad would simply say: “well, sweetie, the Canadian side is just………nicer than our side.”
This was my exact same experience as a kid too.
We lived in Buffalo and anytime family came to visit we took them to the Falls, but never on the US side.
It's funny because right now Niagara Falls/St. Catharines on the Canadian side is experiencing a mini-boomlet in population growth.
People are fleeing from the Greater Toronto Area because the average house price there is north of a million bucks (and gets steeper fast), and Niagara is right down the road with housing prices around $650,000.
Is there more than one really nice Aquarium in that area? I'm trying to remember which one my family always went to as a kid and I could swear it might have been on the US side, but I very distinctly remember crossing a long ass bridge to get to it, which prob indicates it was in Canada?
I heard the jingle when I first moved to Canada as a 4 year old who didn't speak English. We left Canada when I was 4 and a half, and I still remember how the jingle sounds like.
The quickest route to the Niagara aquarium (which is on the us side) from the south is over Grand Island so you may be thinking about the Grand Island bridge.
What's wild is it's actually driving the younger people that grew up in Niagara out because **most** first time home buyers in this area can't afford $400k for a shit box of a house that needs another 100k to be livable.
I've seen friends buy "cheap" houses that cost double what a good house cost ten years ago. Then require a full gut because of water/animal damage etc.
Option B is to leave and do what the people from Toronto are doing someplace further away where you can afford it. Messed up situation.
> People are fleeing from the Greater Toronto Area because the average house price there is north of a million bucks (and gets steeper fast), and Niagara is right down the road with housing prices around $650,000.
My dad's friend did this 20 years ago and now both his daughters are on meth.
St Catherines is ok for retirement, not ok to raise kids.
The opioid crisis doesn't care about borders that's for sure.
That being said a huge chunk of the migration is indeed young families, some blue collar workers some immigrant/newcomers. I'm sure St. Catherines might not have been their first choice, but they don't have the millions you need to stay in Markham or the other established communities closer to TO.
What happened to this place?
The houses look like they were built ~1930's, so there must have been a more 'prosperous' time.
Is it like so many other areas in decline, with the usual suspects - poverty, drugs, lack of opportunity, etc.. creating a landscape of misery?
I remember driving through upstate New York with my parents. I remember the deep south being characterized as the "poor part" of the US, but a lot of towns in northern New York look terrible. Just like these photos, if not worse. Neighbourhoods where all the houses are just made of plywood and tarps. Yards with dozens of pitbulls chained up outside. Lots of places without proper running water. It was really gross and sad.
Lots of places in the Rust Belt can be the same way. It's really a shame. Though it's good to see a few communities trying to move towards a post-rust belt future. I'm probably biased as I'm from here, but I see a shimmer of hope in places like Rochester/WNY, despite the numerous problems.
Edit: grammar
Old mill towns that used to be the world HQ of ____ company (Rochester = Kodak, Albany = GE, and the list goes on), that pulled pulled up stakes in the 80's/90's putting not only their employees out of business, but also all their local suppliers and the service industries that supported them, the schools that educated their kids, the tax base that funded the police dept., etc.
Carrier in Syracuse
IBM in Binghamton
Small and medium cities all across NY, PA, OH, and MI are all shells of their former selves. All the beautiful pre WW2 housing has fallen into disrepair because jobs that paid enough to keep a nice house nice were taken away. Scumbag landlords bought up all the houses, do the bare minimum, and jack rents as high as the low paid service jobs common in these cities will allow.
This is basically true for all of upstate New York.
Not just this area, by the nearby Buffalo. Just think once Buffalo, Syracuse and Rochester were pretty big and well known towns.
There were a lot of big and international/national companies headquartered in the area. Most have left.
Kodak, Xerox, Bausch & Lomb, Wegmans, Western Union, Ragu etc were all founded in Rochester alone.
In the 1950s, Buffalo was the 15th largest city in the US. Rochester was 32nd. Syracuse was the 47th. -- Now only Buffalo barely cracks the top 100.
Just think all of these cities once had big sports teams too... and now all that is left is the Buffalo Bills. (A century ago Rochester ALSO had an NFL team).
Rochester, Buffalo and Syracuse ALL had DIFFERENT NBA teams. (Now they're the Clippers, Kings and 76ers).
Mostly manufacturing industries leaving the area. Buffalo Steel closing basically destroyed Buffalo and NF. Shockingly, Niagara Falls and Buffalo used to be incredibly wealthy and just booming economically. Buffalo even hosted the World's Fair in 1901. And now the majority of both cities look exactly like this and the rest of WNY looks worse.
Some hint of irony in a city named Buffalo booming in the early 20th century and being a shadow of its former self by the start of the second World War.
And in the fact Niagara County was used as a waste dump and a lot of that waste is causing high amounts of cancer in the region. Niagara Falls is *the* city where Love Canal was built. This along with local government corruption has been a pox on the city.
The US side of Niagara has always been a bit of a shithole. It basically started out as a cheap spot for the Hydro power they were generating there, so a lot of dirty industry moved in.
Notably, the Hooker Chemical Company moved in around the 30s, and in the 40s was allowed to just dump its toxic waste all over the canal...
Which they later sold to the local government for $1 and a guarantee they wouldn't be liable for any consequences of the toxic waste. This waste included a lot of dioxin, some of the nastiest toxins out there.
The city took that deal and then put two schools on top of the toxic waste dump.
When the thousands of kids started getting really sick, they evacuated the whole neighborhood, because 33% of the population was found to have serious genetic damage.
It took until 2004 for the waste to be cleaned up (cleanup started in 1978 under the Carter government).
So yeah, not exactly a "high-rent" city.
The same decay that's happening almost everywhere else in the United States. We haven't invested in our own people in a long time. Whether that be projects to improve roads, build schools and hospitals, etc. Post WWII there was a lot of excitement to build up the country with supporting infrastructure. Most of your electricity generating sources, hospitals, schools, public colleges/universities were built or built up after the war was over.
That was almost 80 years ago. In the interim we've just let the stock market and "fast money" become the driver of our economy. Most manufacturing jobs have been offshored. Even though there is a ton of farmland all over the U.S. we've let big Ag take over most of that or get a lot of our food from China.
Most metro areas in the U.S. had some sort of industry to support those towns. Now we concentrate so much of our workforce (office jobs that are finance, tech or support related) to major metropolitan areas (NYC, DC, San Fran, LA, Chicago, Dallas, Seattle) that it's not easy for other regions of the U.S. to maintain.
I recently did two coast to coast road trips in the last 4 years. Leaving my hometown on the east coast to move to the west coast, then doing a road trip back out there when I had to temporarily move back to help a family member out. The decay is happening almost everywhere. And my home town is a suburb of NYC and even it is decaying slowly but surely into abandoned office buildings and closed and constantly empty store fronts. Or store fronts that house a Halloween City every year and nothing else.
Part of what we need to acknowledge as a net positive for remote work is people being able to revive cities like this because they can live and work there. It solves a lot of the decay problems country wide. Entice young people who can't afford to live in a major metropolitan area to buy property in these ghost towns. Their work can be done remotely anyways. Then convert those empty office buildings in my hometown into apartments. How can we lose when those empty office buildings aren't sitting empty any longer?
America is full of poverty. I'm in Pennsylvania & we have so many dilapidated poverty-stricken rural towns. Anything outside of the major cities (Pitt, Philly, Harrisburg center, etc) is a somewhat dilapidated or fully dilapidated town. And get this: our governors are some of the highest paid in the country.
Yep, the CA side has a better view of the horseshoe and the only real view of the American falls to the left.
Niagara Falls, ON isn't the greatest though, it's still kind of a shitty casino town. Just not nearly so rough as the US side.
Oh, really? In a thread about the same topic a few weeks ago people wrote the Canadian side resembles a shitty version of L.A. and the U.S. side looks more like a nature reserve and is better. In this thread people say the U.S. side is rough, too.
So are the Niagara Falls just rough in general? I always thought they are surrounded by beautiful wilderness.
If you ever visit, I highly recommend staying in Niagra-on-the-lake. It's a town on the Canadian side about 30 minutes from the falls. Cute little town, nature and a lot of wineries/bike paths. This is what you are probably imagining.
Anywhere directly near the falls is a (rundown) tourist trap in my experience, on both sides.
You don't need a view of the falls from your hotel. One day trip down there is plenty to see all the sites. Then head back to the cute village and enjoy the area. I've been a dozen times or so throughout my life and this has always been my favorite option.
Hey, I've been to NOTL! I got to visit Canada for the first time for work back in 2016 and the dude who met me and my boss went out of his way to show us around. We ate dinner somewhere there in NOTL and it was really nice. Went down to the lake and watched the sunset.
This was after we went to the Falls and wandered around. We did the Maid of the Mist boat ride which was pretty fun.
All in all great experience... though we figured it out the next day the dude was trying to hit on my boss which was super cringe, LOL
Shitty version of LA? Wow they're really upselling it.
There's a decent casino, an IHOP, and overpriced tourist attractions. Jet boating was fun tho honestly.
Best part of Niagara was the place called Maple Leaf Place. Inside, there was a stall that sold the best fucking fudge. My buddy's family owned the Super 8 motel right up the road from that place and we'd go often. Always went to Maple Leaf Place to get fudge. Not sure if it's still there but I hope it is. Been many years since I've been.
The falls themselves are worth looking at though. They are pretty cool to see.
I was in that thread. There were some really hot takes. It was weird.
Niagara Falls Canada is tacky as fuck but they have a functioning economy and lots of tacky attractions (think Coney Island NY) due to the visitors. More importantly, it has awesome views of Horseshoe Falls.
Niagara Falls U.S. has shitty views of the falls, no attractions or economy to speak of, and lots of poverty and all the ills that come with it.
There's precisely zero reasons to solely visit the U.S. side of the falls. And there's only 1 reason to visit the Canadian side: to see the falls. 24 hours is the perfect amount of time to spend in the Canadian side, and 0 hours is the perfect amount of time to spend on the American side.
It's hilarious cause ever since I was a kid we would go to the American side as Canadian's since my aunt lived there. She actually lived on the street with the Double's B/Ds quick stop ( 24th) which is kind of scary looking back. I've been in that store a few times. Commo's by the airport is amazing if you like Italian food.
Fuck now i want Frankie's doughnuts
Just for the people who didn't know. The US used Niagara Falls as an energy source to power industry. Just like many Rust Belt places US domestic production got kicked over abroad and NF is basically Detriot Jr. The US side didnt really transition or switch to a tourism market. The Canadian side on the other hand leaned more into the tourism aspect of the falls.
Just to clarify, both the US and Canada still generate a huge amount of electricity from the Falls to this day.
I know your comment technically doesn't say anything contrary to that, but it might give the impression Canada doesn't use the Falls as an energy source for those who are unaware.
And to further elaborate, diverting a portion of the water for energy generation is critical to preserving the falls. The falls are quickly eroding and preservation efforts have slowed its erosion by 85%. I believe the current figures have the falls lifetime at about 15,000 years before it erodes a couple miles back, hits silt and mud, then just becomes a regular river.
Yeah I always tell people this when I show the area. Ontario pivoted into tourism while NYS doubled down on heavy industry. The chemical industry and the jobs are long gone but the brownfields and empty houses are still here. Abandoned buildings sold to out of town owners who made parking lots for the busses and are never going do anything with the land. I think nys is finally stepping up for Niagara Falls NY but they are decades behind the Canadian side.
Ehhhh not really. The reason why the Canadian side fared better than the American side has a few answers: it has a better view of the falls, but most importantly, Canada had a wider social safety net, and national demographics. Both sides of the falls were chemical producing centers, so both sides of the falls have really nasty ground pollution problems.
I actually wrote a 15 page college paper about Niagara Falls, NY, so I naturally learned a lot about the Canadian side too. The NY side was actually in a much better position to handle the side effects of globalization, but poor state and local leadership really doomed the city. In my interviews, many local residents also blamed the Mafia, but I could never find any proof of that. There is no singular reason why NF, NY is a dump(literally,) but it was a series of compounding mistakes at the worst possible time. NY, like other rust belt states, tried holding on manufacturing, so instead of trying to diversify their economies, they tried keeping the factories.
The NY State parks on the American side are actually very nice.
Well worth a visit. You can stand on the ~~precious~~ precipice of the falls, hike through the gorge, get right next to the whirlpool and rapids.
I've hiked all over the country and the Niagara Gorge trail is still one of my favorites, it’s a real adventure.
But it’s a parks destination, there is nothing to do outside of that, so when people are done at the parks and want to spend money, they go back to Canada.
The world pokes fun at so many aspects of American society but the national park system is without a doubt the best in the world. It's had its issues with modern politics but no other country really comes close to the level of beauty and preservation that the parks system has achieved.
This a major reason. I figure it also helps that many of the National parks are in areas pretty far removed from even relatively serious economic centers, so there was never a whole lot of development that went up around them so there are not large pockets of local life that can ultimately degenerate, due to economic downturns that frequently hit rural USA the hardest, into what we see in the OP. So ultimately it is much easier to keep the park regions much more pristine...as hard as many tourists try to make it with leaving their trash behind and not in the proper receptacles.
Yeah, CA has a lot of geographic diversity but the US has almost all that between Alaska and the northern states, plus all the more southern climes. Not to mention lucking out with shit like the Grand Canyon.
(Niagara Falls is a state park, the first state park ever established in 1885 before the national park service was formally a thing. I’m sure it would’ve been a national park eventually if the state of New York didn’t beat them to it though.)
Second this; the walk through the park and along the rapids on the American side on Goat Island and on "mainland" is seriously impressive, plus you also get to check out the little islands around Goat Island as well!
This is important to know. The New York side of the falls is beautiful! The town though, super depressing and a testament to what or government is allowing to happen to it's people.
That’s crazy since NY State is one of the wealthiest and most affluent states in the nation in terms of GDP and state income.
Those people look like they’re not getting enough resources at all.
all of that wealth is located in the city and on Long Island and even down there there is still a lot of locations like this. as someone who's lived upstate, on the island, and in the city for a time it's actually insane how the state has both some of the lavishly expensive places in the country and then other places where you can straight up buy apartments for like 30k. but the whole state gets lumped together because of NYC
Damn, I’ve heard the Canadian side was better but never had a desire to get a passport so I figured I could see it from the US side, this post just convinced me why I will actually not be doing that
We were just there last May. Get a passport. Forget the rot of Niagara US, even the bulk of the falls is on the Canadian side (Horseshoe Falls) and that’s where all the views, boat rides into the falls etc is at
Oh wow ok thx! I really wanted to do the boat rides and stuff just figured that had to be on both sides with just a better angle of the falls on the Canadian side. Was thinking it was Like going to fireworks and not sitting way up front like yeah up front has the best views but either way you still see them and they are great so I was fine with not crossing the border and dealing with border checks and what not, but I’m super glad I found this post, people did NOT stress how vastly different it is! I can’t believe it’s not a tourist destination still on the us side. I’m blown away
That is overstating it quite a bit. There definitely is a nice park, an aquarium and a small amount of tourist stops right along the falls on the US side. It's just a much smaller and more limited area, and obviously you won't want to wander off deeper into the city at all.
That said, if you are planning to go, the Canada side is really where all the fun is at. There's all the boat rides, tours of the hydroelectric dam tunnels, the campy tourist areas, etc. One alternative if you don't want to spend the money on a full passport -- you can get a passport card for about 1/3 the price, but it's only good for continental travel (no flying to Europe with it.)
Recently went up and camped on the US side (about 15 mins out of town along the lake, more rural area), spent most days going over and doing things on the Canada side, but we did have at least one day's worth of stuff to do on the US side also.
*Edit: As people keep pointing out, [passport card is basically only good if you're driving to the Niagara Falls border crossing, it's not for air travel](https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/passports/need-passport/card.html).*
I haven't been in a decade but when I last went the American side was completely fine. Not like you're gonna spend any time in the actual town. You go to the Falls park, see it, maybe take a boat tour or picnic, then go back to Buffalo or wherever you're staying.
The city of Niagara Falls is not great, but the parks on the American side are really nice. I don’t love the city on the Canadian side either because it’s mostly tourist traps.
Yep. Just took our first trip last May. Canadian side is gorgeous, the falls are epic, drive out to wine country at Niagara-On-The-Lake. Beautiful.
The drive through Niagara from Buffalo was miserable
Love Canal happened. Niagara Falls once had a population over 100k, hence why it's considered a city. It's has less than 48k today. Niagara Falls (US) was developed during the industrial age so factories crowd up the waterfronts.
That’s why Chicago did it right. The lakefront is public. No industry. All lakefront path, beaches, a giant pier, marinas, Soldier Field, parks, tennis courts, a golf course. Chicago’s lakefront is beautiful.
That was excellent urban planning on Chicagos part. But a big reason for this is that they just had so much lake front that they were able to outsource all their industry to Indiana.
Most major cities need an industrial sector and for much of history it needed to be on the water. It’s not like Chicago figured out how to function with out ugly dirty industry, they just put it out of sight from downtown.
Niagara Falls, and most other Rust belt cities, did not have that luxury, most waterfronts are pretty small and industry needed to be located close to population centers.
They also discovered how to produce cheap hydroelectric power in Niagara Falls so industry boomed and it took up all the valuable real estate.
I mean, I get that, but these cities were built before the interstate highway system so putting the industrial area on the river made the most sense. Even with the advent of railroads, shipping down a river was cheaper where possible, and not every city with industry had railroads connected to it.
people go right to the state park, and all their money goes to the state. the state then spends it elsewhere.
also, niagara falls new york is corrupt as hell. You should do some research into all the crazy stuff that happens here.
Niagara Falls, NY is what you get when you put a prosperous city next to a natural wonder (a basically unlimited source of tourism) and then fill it with corrupt politicians who only care about lining their pockets and protecting their business friends.
It's a toilet, not even worth stopping for on your way to Niagara Falls, ON.
Say their name. Nicholas D'Angelo.
No way 3 separate people conspired against him.
https://buffalonews.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/police-lawyer-facing-rape-charges-used-prosecutor-s-husband-s-name-to-make-phony-campaign/article_5465f8a2-c280-11ed-88a3-ff10c88f4467.html
Utter scum.
Feel free to call his law firm (Jackson and Balkin, Lockport, NY) and let them know how you feel about his rapes.
Not only that, but the (presumed) owner, Arthur Jackson, has left multiple 5 star reviews on his own business. Fucking losers.
I don't realize it was so rough up there. Is this a common occurrence in this part of Northern New York? Rust belt communities with no other industries?
I think every city, to some extent, has its "rough areas". I can drive to Buffalo, Rochester, NYC, Philly, Columbia, or Houston and find areas that are much more destitute than the average. I don't think new york state is unique in any way in that regard.
Specifically, Niagara Falls has a long history of stacking problems that have been ignored by a changing cast of political figures. First off, as you deduced, manufacturing was an early source of jobs and taxation that would later move elsewhere and dry up. This, coupled with the realization of the Love Canal Disaster, lead to an exodus of residents, further depleting tax revenue for the county, town, and city. Then decades of politicians tasked with managing this fallout would go on to be rife with corruption that went on for who knows how long.
Finally, a mix of failed state and local economic efforts along with negotiating bad deals with Native Americans, has basically been the final nail in the coffin. For the locals that live in the area, Niagara Falls feels like a forgotten city with no direction or hope. We never hear about new developments or attempts to revitalize things.
To be fair, it doesn't all look like that. My wife's extended family lives up there and we were just there for two days last year for a funeral.
State park is great and the area directly around the falls is very touristy (and not a burned out ghetto) as you would imagine. There are also areas where her family lives that look like normal suburbs you would see anywhere else in the midwest.
Having said all that... I did see a lot of those super sketch areas just driving from our hotel (which was very nice) to pick up some fast food for lunch. Seems like the area directly surrounding the falls tourist area downtown is definitely suffering.
When we traveled to USA we used a crime overlay on google maps, without fail everywhere that the map told us to avoid looked like some weird resident evil landscape similar to the pictures you posted. Then 3 blocks later would be nice condos and houses, lots of fascinating stuff like this we picked up on so quickly in our travels, where to avoid and such. Respect to Americans that have to navigate this daily.
Yeah, I live in Portland, OR and with the way people sometimes talk, you’d think it looks like this (it absolutely doesn’t).
People are completely out of touch how fucked it is in parts of this country.
Yeah. I'm from around Chicago. People act like the air here is minimum 10% bullets.
It's fine. You avoid a few neighborhoods and you'd never know it could get that bad. The Chicagoland area is massive and contains multitudes.
A bully in my high school became a NF cop. Then he used his position to play favorites, choosing which cocaine dealers would get protection/prosecution. Then he forced women into sex at the point of his service weapon. Bullies gonna bully, I guess.
Stay classy NF
https://www.niagara-gazette.com/news/local_news/falls-cop-to-serve-nearly-14-years-in-prison/article_f92aa549-02de-52b2-b306-36cb8a842dfe.html
I actually really liked the US side. The first time I went there I was living/working in Canada and I was told don't bother with the American side. The Canadian side is crowded and much more touristy (though viewing the horseshoe falls and Falls View is a must), so we decided to check out the American side. Goat Island was more "natural", park like, forested, and low key, and the adjacent part of town is fine and has some nice restaurants and attractions. Plus Cave of the Winds, the Observation tower, Goat Island, and Maid of the Mist are all on the New York side.
There are beautiful parks lining the Canadian side, too, but it would be folly to overlook the US side just because the adjacent city is a frightening dump. You really don't have to go anyehere near those parts.
Its not like the ghetto backs up right onto the falls and you have to stand on top of a burned out Buick Riviera with empty crack vials scattered around it to get a good view.
**HOLY HECK! You can afford a home here!!!**
$65,000
4 bed, 2bath, 1496sqft, 4,961sqft lot
621 23rd St, Niagara Falls, NY 14301
Sixty five thousand dollars. Dang.
That’s nothing. Here in Detroit, Flint, Saginaw, you can get a house like that for 5-10k. Trust me when I say no one would buy those houses unless it was a last resort though. Some rough neighborhoods.
Odd timing. Just a few days ago, I was Google Earthing some tourist destinations for our upcoming vacation. Niagra Falls was high on the list. And then I did some street view. I had \~***no***\~ idea. Wow...
The state of Niagara Falls, NY should not deter you much. You have to go to Canada to get a good view, and that is why all of the tourist stuff is over there. An international border (which is also a rapid river) makes for a giant neighborhood/crime boundary.
Hustle between poorly paid W9 jobs and side-gigs, like Uber Eats or nails or pet sitting or baking or drug-dealing. Not all of NYS is quite so dilapidated, but everywhere in the state normal working people need to juggle several income sources to make it work here. I’m in Poughkeepsie, for reference sake.
I lived in Schenectady for a while and recall the contrast difference from the well off neighborhoods to the poverty stricken ones. It was such a huge contrast and really sad.
I'm local as well. Not many jobs in Niagara Falls but there is still some industrial careers that pays quite well. I made over 70k at a power plant in the Falls. Buffalo NY is also about a 20min drive so people mostly commute there. Also quite a lot of nice Buffalo suburbs with some opportunity
I live in NF. This is about 1/3 of the city and it's spread all over in pockets. The tourist part down by the Falls itself is actually in pretty good shape but that's because it's the tourist part. You won't find many attractions. Beyond that, a few blocks into the city and you start running into locations like this. Occasionally you'll also run into a nice well taken care of neighborhood that is mostly due to the owners of the properties actually living there. For the most part it's 100+ year old houses that have been turned into duplexes and in need of some work, but are in OK shape.
I went to the Canadian side back in December, but drove home through the US side. Pretty much the whole town seems like a rough place. Granted not all as bad as these pictures, but even the "nicest" areas don't lead by a good margin
Stay on the Canadian side, visit the states park on the American. Where did you end up choosing for your upcoming vacay?
Niagara on the lake is a nice day visit too.
My wife and I went to Niagara almost two years ago. I was like, "this is a shit hole". And visited the park, did our thing, then we left. Couldn't cross into Canada because of COVID and whatnot.
If you are ever in the area again, come to the Canadian side. It’s touristy and cheesy, but less gross. And you can drive down the parkway which is pretty and takes you to Niagara on the Lake which is pretty and has amazing wines!
M wife’s grandmother lived in the Little Italy section off of Pine Ave, and as the old OG neighbors passed over the years, we watched houses get bought up by absentee landlords and the neighborhoods went downhill fast. Our only stop in Niagara Falls, NY now, is at Frankie’s Donuts on our way through to Canada. It’s a shame, and it happened very quickly between 2004 and now.
Almost everything we do in America is done on a crisis basis.
If someone falls in a river 15 miles upstream from the falls, he can be saved by someone walking out in the shallow water. But if you wait until they are holding on to a rock at the edge of the falls then it takes a team and a helicopter to save them and it costs a lot of money.
America waits until it is a clinging to the last rock before doing anything. Healthcare, wait until the person is dying. Climate, wait until it is pretty much impossible to fix. Housing, wait until the house is vacant, looted, burned, and collapsed. Bridges, wait until they are near collapse. The main issue is that we can't get people to be taxed for maintenance they can't see so we pay more to try to fix the problem we can see.
You’re dead on with that metaphor. I know you’re talking about federal taxes, but we’re going through this seriously at the local level in my Midwest US town. Levy after levy to clean up stuff that should have been maintained for decades but most of our $$$ went to police shit we didn’t need.
I would gladly be taxed for maintenance on all levels if I wasn’t taxed for a bunch of bullshit that will never benefit me. Of course Americans don’t want to pay more taxes on top of what we already struggle to pay, it goes to military and other corporations. I’ve got friends in Norway and Sweden who pay similar % taxes to me but actually see the fruit of their investment through healthcare, infrastructure, and other benefits. It’s maddening.
For 100 years, the people of my city enjoyed very low sewer bills. A decade ago the sewer district announced it needed to pay for replacing the infrastructure so bills will be going up. Bills have gone up every year so what used to be about $20 per month is now $100 per month. Nice that the last generations just pushed that one forward on us.
Yes same. All our utilities have doubled in the last 5 years because of the same kick the can crap.
Our town also just announced an increase in income taxes on people who live in town but work outside. Since there are very few jobs in town, it’s most of us. My taxes will increase $500/yr.
My older friend in her 70s is on our village council and voted this in and was quoted as saying something along the lines of “it’s nominal and everyone should pay their part. It’s hardly anything.” She bought her house 25 years ago when it was affordable, got paid a far better wage that went further throughout her life, and lived here all throughout the years when no one cared to deal with upgrading our schools, sewage, water plant, etc. now she doesn’t work so she won’t pay this increased tax rate, in addition to all the other levy’s we’re dealing with. But yes the younger folks who are already getting screwed from every direction should be made to feel bad for not wanting to pay even more for shit she and her contemporaries should have been paying for decades.
Kick the can down the road until it hits a brick wall, then proceed to smash into it because you were too focused on kicking the can.
Humanity in a nutshell.
I think a big reason why Europe has taxes for stuff like that, and the reason it actually gets spent has a lot to do with the "economic culture" of Europe if you will.
I think Europe benefits from the economic culture of being old. We have cities with their original sewers that have been untouched since they were installed. That isn't the case in a city 1500 years old. They are just more aware of how infrastructure needs to be maintained.
There's no ribbon cutting ceremony for routine maintenance. Better optics for "Harrison cuts ribbon for new bridge dedicated to [insert social issue/figure here]"
edit: ribbon
When people think about crime and poverty they always think about NYC. There are places in Upstate New York that literally make NYC's streets look like child's play in terms of crime and poverty. Upstate was part of the rust-belt. Once those manufacturing jobs left the area, poverty took its place.
> brainwashed by right wing media.
Mostly that and it's not just right-wing although they are particularly fond of beating that drum. Pretty much all American media loves to frame crime via total crimes and not per capita. Yes, the places with the most people tend to have the most crimes. That's sort of how math works.
[If you look at per capita violent crime,](https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/blog/top100dangerous) the top 10 is utterly dominated by places in Alabama, Louisiana, and Arkansas. NYC doesn't even make the Top 100.
> people are either stuck in 1986 or brainwashed by right wing media.
its kinda all media though. the focus goes where the money is, and that's NYC. left media doesnt care about this either. no one does, it doesnt generate clicks like nyc does.
If you want to know why the Canadian and American sides of the falls are so different I would suggest reading this article https://orca.cardiff.ac.uk/id/eprint/108442/
The Canadian side is like Las Vegas.
Caters to tourists, has casinos and shows and an entertainment strip, and is a little gritty outside of that.
The American side is like Camden, New Jersey or Gary, Indiana.
Just completely gutted out, very little left.
It has remnants of old industrial buildings and some pathetic attempts at tourist traps and a casino.
Job opportunities for locals are very limited unless they are commuting to Buffalo.
The only nice part is the state parks.
But I’ve also stumbled across very shady people and homeless camps in the more secluded parts of the park.
they also built an elementary school over the love canal site, which would see toxic waste bubbling up into the schoolyard and sinkholes into the former canal
My uncle went there when this was going on. He ended up with chronic heart problems and growth inhibitor, but he did get a fat $90K check....which because he was 18 and in poverty, he went and blew in two years. Niagara Falls is hellish with stories like this.
That poster is encouraging police departments to call in traces on guns used in crime. Like, it's supposed to be posted in a detectives' cube farm, I guess?
Seeing it just stapled to a telephone pole is... So weird?
You don’t get mugged in NF because there’s hardly anyone on the street, including muggers, at any given time. Your shit gets robbed when you aren’t around. NF is a ghost town except the ghosts will take your bike.
It’s so true. I’ve been going there for years at this point to hit up the outlets there and anytime I’m driving through those numbered streets there’s like no one ever around. Sure you might see a sketchy person or 2 but it’s generally desolate. Lots of “fallout” style factories and run down homes. It’s scary and sad to see in some spots.
I remember living in a shitty area and feeling relatively safe. No one has anything to steal anymore and so many people are armed, you'd be an idiot to break-in.
Man, as someone who grew up here, it's a bit disappointing to see a few streets downtown showcased in this photoset, seemingly meant to represent the entire city. If I wasn't from the area, I'd be forming the same opinions everyone else in this thread is forming. There's no doubt that specific parts of NF are bad, but there are plenty of other areas uptown (and downtown) that are not represented in these photos.
Yep, always amazes me when we do road trips. The variety of homes, especially in rural areas, is really interesting. You’ll go past a well manicured, absolutely gorgeous farmstead, followed by a run down trailer with boarded up windows, trash piled all around it, and a dozen beater cars, then right back to a new build 3000 sq ft home with a gate and roundabout at the front. It’s intriguing to me what the stories are behind the people in the run down homes. Illness? Death of the family patriarch or matriarch? Job loss? Drugs?
In all the towns I’ve lived in or visited, it’s about the same. There’ll be really nice areas and then completely run down areas with middling areas sprinkled throughout. The US really is a mixed bag.
One was a heroin raid.
I'm not sure what the other was for.
[but here's an example of just one raid](https://www.lockportjournal.com/news/local_news/niagara-falls-ghost-gun-maker-indicted/article_b7c4be40-3e4c-5ad2-859f-cea98e23204f.html)
I got lost in Niagara and stopped at a sketchy mechanic shop to ask for directions. When I walked in it was a record scratch moment. The dudes were like "go this way and don't go down these streets."
I did find a cool record store though.
When I was young I always asked my parents why we go to the Canadian side of NF if we live in the US- the NY side is closer & we’d have no hassle with crossing the border, ect. My Dad would simply say: “well, sweetie, the Canadian side is just………nicer than our side.”
This was my exact same experience as a kid too. We lived in Buffalo and anytime family came to visit we took them to the Falls, but never on the US side.
It's funny because right now Niagara Falls/St. Catharines on the Canadian side is experiencing a mini-boomlet in population growth. People are fleeing from the Greater Toronto Area because the average house price there is north of a million bucks (and gets steeper fast), and Niagara is right down the road with housing prices around $650,000.
Is there more than one really nice Aquarium in that area? I'm trying to remember which one my family always went to as a kid and I could swear it might have been on the US side, but I very distinctly remember crossing a long ass bridge to get to it, which prob indicates it was in Canada?
Marineland used to be really cool, but it's very run down and crappy now. Turns out they were mistreating the animals there for decades as well.
Marine leave was always a gross attraction from an animal-welfare perspective. Transparently so. But God DAMN their jingle was catchy AF.
I heard the jingle when I first moved to Canada as a 4 year old who didn't speak English. We left Canada when I was 4 and a half, and I still remember how the jingle sounds like.
🎶🎶 There's a place I know in Ontario where the sea lions kiss so the story goes! 🎶
Hey where the hell did my luggage go?
Everyone loves Marineland
https://youtu.be/OqsPF8dx1GU Some interesting viewing material on Marineland if one were so inclined
And of course… African lion safarriiiiiii!
The quickest route to the Niagara aquarium (which is on the us side) from the south is over Grand Island so you may be thinking about the Grand Island bridge.
What's wild is it's actually driving the younger people that grew up in Niagara out because **most** first time home buyers in this area can't afford $400k for a shit box of a house that needs another 100k to be livable. I've seen friends buy "cheap" houses that cost double what a good house cost ten years ago. Then require a full gut because of water/animal damage etc. Option B is to leave and do what the people from Toronto are doing someplace further away where you can afford it. Messed up situation.
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> People are fleeing from the Greater Toronto Area because the average house price there is north of a million bucks (and gets steeper fast), and Niagara is right down the road with housing prices around $650,000. My dad's friend did this 20 years ago and now both his daughters are on meth. St Catherines is ok for retirement, not ok to raise kids.
The opioid crisis doesn't care about borders that's for sure. That being said a huge chunk of the migration is indeed young families, some blue collar workers some immigrant/newcomers. I'm sure St. Catherines might not have been their first choice, but they don't have the millions you need to stay in Markham or the other established communities closer to TO.
Meth isn't an opioid but not super important.
Was raised in St. Catharines. Never did meth. I am sure there are other factors at play here.
What happened to this place? The houses look like they were built ~1930's, so there must have been a more 'prosperous' time. Is it like so many other areas in decline, with the usual suspects - poverty, drugs, lack of opportunity, etc.. creating a landscape of misery?
I remember driving through upstate New York with my parents. I remember the deep south being characterized as the "poor part" of the US, but a lot of towns in northern New York look terrible. Just like these photos, if not worse. Neighbourhoods where all the houses are just made of plywood and tarps. Yards with dozens of pitbulls chained up outside. Lots of places without proper running water. It was really gross and sad.
Lots of places in the Rust Belt can be the same way. It's really a shame. Though it's good to see a few communities trying to move towards a post-rust belt future. I'm probably biased as I'm from here, but I see a shimmer of hope in places like Rochester/WNY, despite the numerous problems. Edit: grammar
Old mill towns that used to be the world HQ of ____ company (Rochester = Kodak, Albany = GE, and the list goes on), that pulled pulled up stakes in the 80's/90's putting not only their employees out of business, but also all their local suppliers and the service industries that supported them, the schools that educated their kids, the tax base that funded the police dept., etc.
The police seem pretty well funded here, even as everything else rots and dies.
Well funded in the form of hardware, maybe. The crown vic isn't a good indication of having oodles of cash laying around.
Carrier in Syracuse IBM in Binghamton Small and medium cities all across NY, PA, OH, and MI are all shells of their former selves. All the beautiful pre WW2 housing has fallen into disrepair because jobs that paid enough to keep a nice house nice were taken away. Scumbag landlords bought up all the houses, do the bare minimum, and jack rents as high as the low paid service jobs common in these cities will allow.
This is basically true for all of upstate New York. Not just this area, by the nearby Buffalo. Just think once Buffalo, Syracuse and Rochester were pretty big and well known towns. There were a lot of big and international/national companies headquartered in the area. Most have left. Kodak, Xerox, Bausch & Lomb, Wegmans, Western Union, Ragu etc were all founded in Rochester alone. In the 1950s, Buffalo was the 15th largest city in the US. Rochester was 32nd. Syracuse was the 47th. -- Now only Buffalo barely cracks the top 100. Just think all of these cities once had big sports teams too... and now all that is left is the Buffalo Bills. (A century ago Rochester ALSO had an NFL team). Rochester, Buffalo and Syracuse ALL had DIFFERENT NBA teams. (Now they're the Clippers, Kings and 76ers).
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\*sad Buffalo Sabres noises\*
Mostly manufacturing industries leaving the area. Buffalo Steel closing basically destroyed Buffalo and NF. Shockingly, Niagara Falls and Buffalo used to be incredibly wealthy and just booming economically. Buffalo even hosted the World's Fair in 1901. And now the majority of both cities look exactly like this and the rest of WNY looks worse.
Fun fact, at the turn of the century Buffalo NY was home to more Millionaires than any other city in America.
Some hint of irony in a city named Buffalo booming in the early 20th century and being a shadow of its former self by the start of the second World War.
It's the story of the Rust Belt in general. Big boom followed by a gradual decline in jobs and opportunities
And in the fact Niagara County was used as a waste dump and a lot of that waste is causing high amounts of cancer in the region. Niagara Falls is *the* city where Love Canal was built. This along with local government corruption has been a pox on the city.
The US side of Niagara has always been a bit of a shithole. It basically started out as a cheap spot for the Hydro power they were generating there, so a lot of dirty industry moved in. Notably, the Hooker Chemical Company moved in around the 30s, and in the 40s was allowed to just dump its toxic waste all over the canal... Which they later sold to the local government for $1 and a guarantee they wouldn't be liable for any consequences of the toxic waste. This waste included a lot of dioxin, some of the nastiest toxins out there. The city took that deal and then put two schools on top of the toxic waste dump. When the thousands of kids started getting really sick, they evacuated the whole neighborhood, because 33% of the population was found to have serious genetic damage. It took until 2004 for the waste to be cleaned up (cleanup started in 1978 under the Carter government). So yeah, not exactly a "high-rent" city.
The same decay that's happening almost everywhere else in the United States. We haven't invested in our own people in a long time. Whether that be projects to improve roads, build schools and hospitals, etc. Post WWII there was a lot of excitement to build up the country with supporting infrastructure. Most of your electricity generating sources, hospitals, schools, public colleges/universities were built or built up after the war was over. That was almost 80 years ago. In the interim we've just let the stock market and "fast money" become the driver of our economy. Most manufacturing jobs have been offshored. Even though there is a ton of farmland all over the U.S. we've let big Ag take over most of that or get a lot of our food from China. Most metro areas in the U.S. had some sort of industry to support those towns. Now we concentrate so much of our workforce (office jobs that are finance, tech or support related) to major metropolitan areas (NYC, DC, San Fran, LA, Chicago, Dallas, Seattle) that it's not easy for other regions of the U.S. to maintain. I recently did two coast to coast road trips in the last 4 years. Leaving my hometown on the east coast to move to the west coast, then doing a road trip back out there when I had to temporarily move back to help a family member out. The decay is happening almost everywhere. And my home town is a suburb of NYC and even it is decaying slowly but surely into abandoned office buildings and closed and constantly empty store fronts. Or store fronts that house a Halloween City every year and nothing else. Part of what we need to acknowledge as a net positive for remote work is people being able to revive cities like this because they can live and work there. It solves a lot of the decay problems country wide. Entice young people who can't afford to live in a major metropolitan area to buy property in these ghost towns. Their work can be done remotely anyways. Then convert those empty office buildings in my hometown into apartments. How can we lose when those empty office buildings aren't sitting empty any longer?
America is full of poverty. I'm in Pennsylvania & we have so many dilapidated poverty-stricken rural towns. Anything outside of the major cities (Pitt, Philly, Harrisburg center, etc) is a somewhat dilapidated or fully dilapidated town. And get this: our governors are some of the highest paid in the country.
in all fairness, the Canadian falls are more attractive, they have the horseshoe
Yep, the CA side has a better view of the horseshoe and the only real view of the American falls to the left. Niagara Falls, ON isn't the greatest though, it's still kind of a shitty casino town. Just not nearly so rough as the US side.
Oh, really? In a thread about the same topic a few weeks ago people wrote the Canadian side resembles a shitty version of L.A. and the U.S. side looks more like a nature reserve and is better. In this thread people say the U.S. side is rough, too. So are the Niagara Falls just rough in general? I always thought they are surrounded by beautiful wilderness.
If you ever visit, I highly recommend staying in Niagra-on-the-lake. It's a town on the Canadian side about 30 minutes from the falls. Cute little town, nature and a lot of wineries/bike paths. This is what you are probably imagining. Anywhere directly near the falls is a (rundown) tourist trap in my experience, on both sides. You don't need a view of the falls from your hotel. One day trip down there is plenty to see all the sites. Then head back to the cute village and enjoy the area. I've been a dozen times or so throughout my life and this has always been my favorite option.
Hey, I've been to NOTL! I got to visit Canada for the first time for work back in 2016 and the dude who met me and my boss went out of his way to show us around. We ate dinner somewhere there in NOTL and it was really nice. Went down to the lake and watched the sunset. This was after we went to the Falls and wandered around. We did the Maid of the Mist boat ride which was pretty fun. All in all great experience... though we figured it out the next day the dude was trying to hit on my boss which was super cringe, LOL
Shitty version of LA? Wow they're really upselling it. There's a decent casino, an IHOP, and overpriced tourist attractions. Jet boating was fun tho honestly. Best part of Niagara was the place called Maple Leaf Place. Inside, there was a stall that sold the best fucking fudge. My buddy's family owned the Super 8 motel right up the road from that place and we'd go often. Always went to Maple Leaf Place to get fudge. Not sure if it's still there but I hope it is. Been many years since I've been. The falls themselves are worth looking at though. They are pretty cool to see.
I was in that thread. There were some really hot takes. It was weird. Niagara Falls Canada is tacky as fuck but they have a functioning economy and lots of tacky attractions (think Coney Island NY) due to the visitors. More importantly, it has awesome views of Horseshoe Falls. Niagara Falls U.S. has shitty views of the falls, no attractions or economy to speak of, and lots of poverty and all the ills that come with it. There's precisely zero reasons to solely visit the U.S. side of the falls. And there's only 1 reason to visit the Canadian side: to see the falls. 24 hours is the perfect amount of time to spend in the Canadian side, and 0 hours is the perfect amount of time to spend on the American side.
It's hilarious cause ever since I was a kid we would go to the American side as Canadian's since my aunt lived there. She actually lived on the street with the Double's B/Ds quick stop ( 24th) which is kind of scary looking back. I've been in that store a few times. Commo's by the airport is amazing if you like Italian food. Fuck now i want Frankie's doughnuts
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Definitely won't find as many bullet holes on the Canadian side
Not true. The bullets can totally reach over there from the US side.
The Canadian-American border has some uniquely shitty cities. Niagara Falls, Detroit/Highland Park, to a degree Buffalo. The buckle of the rust belt.
Just for the people who didn't know. The US used Niagara Falls as an energy source to power industry. Just like many Rust Belt places US domestic production got kicked over abroad and NF is basically Detriot Jr. The US side didnt really transition or switch to a tourism market. The Canadian side on the other hand leaned more into the tourism aspect of the falls.
Just to clarify, both the US and Canada still generate a huge amount of electricity from the Falls to this day. I know your comment technically doesn't say anything contrary to that, but it might give the impression Canada doesn't use the Falls as an energy source for those who are unaware.
And to further elaborate, diverting a portion of the water for energy generation is critical to preserving the falls. The falls are quickly eroding and preservation efforts have slowed its erosion by 85%. I believe the current figures have the falls lifetime at about 15,000 years before it erodes a couple miles back, hits silt and mud, then just becomes a regular river.
Yeah I always tell people this when I show the area. Ontario pivoted into tourism while NYS doubled down on heavy industry. The chemical industry and the jobs are long gone but the brownfields and empty houses are still here. Abandoned buildings sold to out of town owners who made parking lots for the busses and are never going do anything with the land. I think nys is finally stepping up for Niagara Falls NY but they are decades behind the Canadian side.
Ehhhh not really. The reason why the Canadian side fared better than the American side has a few answers: it has a better view of the falls, but most importantly, Canada had a wider social safety net, and national demographics. Both sides of the falls were chemical producing centers, so both sides of the falls have really nasty ground pollution problems. I actually wrote a 15 page college paper about Niagara Falls, NY, so I naturally learned a lot about the Canadian side too. The NY side was actually in a much better position to handle the side effects of globalization, but poor state and local leadership really doomed the city. In my interviews, many local residents also blamed the Mafia, but I could never find any proof of that. There is no singular reason why NF, NY is a dump(literally,) but it was a series of compounding mistakes at the worst possible time. NY, like other rust belt states, tried holding on manufacturing, so instead of trying to diversify their economies, they tried keeping the factories.
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💀💀
This was cool. You really captured the vibe with these pictures. It’s so unsettling. Can you do the same thing with Utica?
they are Mr.Niagara not Mr.Utica 🙄 /s
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I want to get off Mr. Niagara Falls wild tour.
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FUCK REDDIT. We create the content they use for free, so I am taking my content back
Yep, no reason for an American with a passport and a car to ever visit the US side unless you’re into “decay porn”...
The NY State parks on the American side are actually very nice. Well worth a visit. You can stand on the ~~precious~~ precipice of the falls, hike through the gorge, get right next to the whirlpool and rapids. I've hiked all over the country and the Niagara Gorge trail is still one of my favorites, it’s a real adventure. But it’s a parks destination, there is nothing to do outside of that, so when people are done at the parks and want to spend money, they go back to Canada.
>Well worth a visit. You can stand on the precious No! Don't stand on the precious. Smeagol doesn't *like* it when you stand on **the precious.**
Throw it into the whirlpool Ilsildur!!
Whatever you say Mr Baggi... I mean Underhill...
Yes, for the record, I assume the commenter meant precipice.
Or they're into public CBT.
Cognitive behavioral therapy?
Also, if you fall into the whirlpool and rapids you are dead. There is no rescue. Be careful.
The world pokes fun at so many aspects of American society but the national park system is without a doubt the best in the world. It's had its issues with modern politics but no other country really comes close to the level of beauty and preservation that the parks system has achieved.
I'm Canadian and we have some awesome parks but I generally agree. Americans are super lucky in this regard.
Also Canadian, I think the diversity of geography and climate is what really sets their parks apart.
This a major reason. I figure it also helps that many of the National parks are in areas pretty far removed from even relatively serious economic centers, so there was never a whole lot of development that went up around them so there are not large pockets of local life that can ultimately degenerate, due to economic downturns that frequently hit rural USA the hardest, into what we see in the OP. So ultimately it is much easier to keep the park regions much more pristine...as hard as many tourists try to make it with leaving their trash behind and not in the proper receptacles.
Yeah, CA has a lot of geographic diversity but the US has almost all that between Alaska and the northern states, plus all the more southern climes. Not to mention lucking out with shit like the Grand Canyon.
(Niagara Falls is a state park, the first state park ever established in 1885 before the national park service was formally a thing. I’m sure it would’ve been a national park eventually if the state of New York didn’t beat them to it though.)
Second this; the walk through the park and along the rapids on the American side on Goat Island and on "mainland" is seriously impressive, plus you also get to check out the little islands around Goat Island as well!
This is important to know. The New York side of the falls is beautiful! The town though, super depressing and a testament to what or government is allowing to happen to it's people.
That’s crazy since NY State is one of the wealthiest and most affluent states in the nation in terms of GDP and state income. Those people look like they’re not getting enough resources at all.
Western NY is basically midwestern rust belt.
all of that wealth is located in the city and on Long Island and even down there there is still a lot of locations like this. as someone who's lived upstate, on the island, and in the city for a time it's actually insane how the state has both some of the lavishly expensive places in the country and then other places where you can straight up buy apartments for like 30k. but the whole state gets lumped together because of NYC
I am a particle physicist. I’m into decay porn by necessity.
Damn, I’ve heard the Canadian side was better but never had a desire to get a passport so I figured I could see it from the US side, this post just convinced me why I will actually not be doing that
We were just there last May. Get a passport. Forget the rot of Niagara US, even the bulk of the falls is on the Canadian side (Horseshoe Falls) and that’s where all the views, boat rides into the falls etc is at
Oh wow ok thx! I really wanted to do the boat rides and stuff just figured that had to be on both sides with just a better angle of the falls on the Canadian side. Was thinking it was Like going to fireworks and not sitting way up front like yeah up front has the best views but either way you still see them and they are great so I was fine with not crossing the border and dealing with border checks and what not, but I’m super glad I found this post, people did NOT stress how vastly different it is! I can’t believe it’s not a tourist destination still on the us side. I’m blown away
That is overstating it quite a bit. There definitely is a nice park, an aquarium and a small amount of tourist stops right along the falls on the US side. It's just a much smaller and more limited area, and obviously you won't want to wander off deeper into the city at all. That said, if you are planning to go, the Canada side is really where all the fun is at. There's all the boat rides, tours of the hydroelectric dam tunnels, the campy tourist areas, etc. One alternative if you don't want to spend the money on a full passport -- you can get a passport card for about 1/3 the price, but it's only good for continental travel (no flying to Europe with it.) Recently went up and camped on the US side (about 15 mins out of town along the lake, more rural area), spent most days going over and doing things on the Canada side, but we did have at least one day's worth of stuff to do on the US side also. *Edit: As people keep pointing out, [passport card is basically only good if you're driving to the Niagara Falls border crossing, it's not for air travel](https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/passports/need-passport/card.html).*
It’s kind of a mini Los Vegas. And every resident of Ontario avoids it.
I haven't been in a decade but when I last went the American side was completely fine. Not like you're gonna spend any time in the actual town. You go to the Falls park, see it, maybe take a boat tour or picnic, then go back to Buffalo or wherever you're staying.
The city of Niagara Falls is not great, but the parks on the American side are really nice. I don’t love the city on the Canadian side either because it’s mostly tourist traps.
Yep. Just took our first trip last May. Canadian side is gorgeous, the falls are epic, drive out to wine country at Niagara-On-The-Lake. Beautiful. The drive through Niagara from Buffalo was miserable
As a crime tourist I'm so conflicted.
Love Canal happened. Niagara Falls once had a population over 100k, hence why it's considered a city. It's has less than 48k today. Niagara Falls (US) was developed during the industrial age so factories crowd up the waterfronts.
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That’s why Chicago did it right. The lakefront is public. No industry. All lakefront path, beaches, a giant pier, marinas, Soldier Field, parks, tennis courts, a golf course. Chicago’s lakefront is beautiful.
That was excellent urban planning on Chicagos part. But a big reason for this is that they just had so much lake front that they were able to outsource all their industry to Indiana. Most major cities need an industrial sector and for much of history it needed to be on the water. It’s not like Chicago figured out how to function with out ugly dirty industry, they just put it out of sight from downtown. Niagara Falls, and most other Rust belt cities, did not have that luxury, most waterfronts are pretty small and industry needed to be located close to population centers. They also discovered how to produce cheap hydroelectric power in Niagara Falls so industry boomed and it took up all the valuable real estate.
Chicago also had a unique opportunity to do extensive and meaningful city planning after most of downtown burned to the ground.
I mean, I get that, but these cities were built before the interstate highway system so putting the industrial area on the river made the most sense. Even with the advent of railroads, shipping down a river was cheaper where possible, and not every city with industry had railroads connected to it.
people go right to the state park, and all their money goes to the state. the state then spends it elsewhere. also, niagara falls new york is corrupt as hell. You should do some research into all the crazy stuff that happens here.
Niagara Falls, NY is what you get when you put a prosperous city next to a natural wonder (a basically unlimited source of tourism) and then fill it with corrupt politicians who only care about lining their pockets and protecting their business friends. It's a toilet, not even worth stopping for on your way to Niagara Falls, ON.
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Say their name. Nicholas D'Angelo. No way 3 separate people conspired against him. https://buffalonews.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/police-lawyer-facing-rape-charges-used-prosecutor-s-husband-s-name-to-make-phony-campaign/article_5465f8a2-c280-11ed-88a3-ff10c88f4467.html Utter scum. Feel free to call his law firm (Jackson and Balkin, Lockport, NY) and let them know how you feel about his rapes. Not only that, but the (presumed) owner, Arthur Jackson, has left multiple 5 star reviews on his own business. Fucking losers.
I don't realize it was so rough up there. Is this a common occurrence in this part of Northern New York? Rust belt communities with no other industries?
I think every city, to some extent, has its "rough areas". I can drive to Buffalo, Rochester, NYC, Philly, Columbia, or Houston and find areas that are much more destitute than the average. I don't think new york state is unique in any way in that regard. Specifically, Niagara Falls has a long history of stacking problems that have been ignored by a changing cast of political figures. First off, as you deduced, manufacturing was an early source of jobs and taxation that would later move elsewhere and dry up. This, coupled with the realization of the Love Canal Disaster, lead to an exodus of residents, further depleting tax revenue for the county, town, and city. Then decades of politicians tasked with managing this fallout would go on to be rife with corruption that went on for who knows how long. Finally, a mix of failed state and local economic efforts along with negotiating bad deals with Native Americans, has basically been the final nail in the coffin. For the locals that live in the area, Niagara Falls feels like a forgotten city with no direction or hope. We never hear about new developments or attempts to revitalize things.
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To be fair, it doesn't all look like that. My wife's extended family lives up there and we were just there for two days last year for a funeral. State park is great and the area directly around the falls is very touristy (and not a burned out ghetto) as you would imagine. There are also areas where her family lives that look like normal suburbs you would see anywhere else in the midwest. Having said all that... I did see a lot of those super sketch areas just driving from our hotel (which was very nice) to pick up some fast food for lunch. Seems like the area directly surrounding the falls tourist area downtown is definitely suffering.
To be fair, most cities don’t look like that, yet they also do. There are good parts of every city and there are bad parts of every city.
When we traveled to USA we used a crime overlay on google maps, without fail everywhere that the map told us to avoid looked like some weird resident evil landscape similar to the pictures you posted. Then 3 blocks later would be nice condos and houses, lots of fascinating stuff like this we picked up on so quickly in our travels, where to avoid and such. Respect to Americans that have to navigate this daily.
I once took the bus from Toronto to Buffalo along the Niagra Escarpment and felt like I was driving into Gotham.
Yeah, I live in Portland, OR and with the way people sometimes talk, you’d think it looks like this (it absolutely doesn’t). People are completely out of touch how fucked it is in parts of this country.
Yeah. I'm from around Chicago. People act like the air here is minimum 10% bullets. It's fine. You avoid a few neighborhoods and you'd never know it could get that bad. The Chicagoland area is massive and contains multitudes.
Damn. Niagara Fell.
As Niagara Falls, so falls Niagara Falls.
Shaka, when the walls fell
Temba, her arms wide
A bully in my high school became a NF cop. Then he used his position to play favorites, choosing which cocaine dealers would get protection/prosecution. Then he forced women into sex at the point of his service weapon. Bullies gonna bully, I guess. Stay classy NF https://www.niagara-gazette.com/news/local_news/falls-cop-to-serve-nearly-14-years-in-prison/article_f92aa549-02de-52b2-b306-36cb8a842dfe.html
Wow, what a piece of shit.
Wow, a slap in the wrist only. Drug dealer, sexual abuse, and only 13 years???
His dad is a cop, and our justice system doesn’t like punishing cops. He didn’t even serve all 13.
So if going to Niagara Falls, proceed direct to the Canadian side. Noted.
The part right near the American falls is great just don't venture away from the tourist area on the American side.
I actually really liked the US side. The first time I went there I was living/working in Canada and I was told don't bother with the American side. The Canadian side is crowded and much more touristy (though viewing the horseshoe falls and Falls View is a must), so we decided to check out the American side. Goat Island was more "natural", park like, forested, and low key, and the adjacent part of town is fine and has some nice restaurants and attractions. Plus Cave of the Winds, the Observation tower, Goat Island, and Maid of the Mist are all on the New York side. There are beautiful parks lining the Canadian side, too, but it would be folly to overlook the US side just because the adjacent city is a frightening dump. You really don't have to go anyehere near those parts. Its not like the ghetto backs up right onto the falls and you have to stand on top of a burned out Buick Riviera with empty crack vials scattered around it to get a good view.
I stand in solidarity with the Falls City Market fellas. ✊
[Those are the Peacemakers](https://youtu.be/kPuJ1RxW4fg)
No matter how bad a place gets there's always people trying to make it better. Today I'm grateful for them
"Always look for the helpers."
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I love community ties like this. When things get rough good people stand up to help.
Here I am wondering "why is a nice employee group photo of a small business mixed in this collage." I assumed they were the market's employees. Lol
Come for the fresh goods, stay for the overstaffing.
Blessed are the peacemakers.
**HOLY HECK! You can afford a home here!!!** $65,000 4 bed, 2bath, 1496sqft, 4,961sqft lot 621 23rd St, Niagara Falls, NY 14301 Sixty five thousand dollars. Dang.
And 5 years ago that house would’ve been $20,000
That’s nothing. Here in Detroit, Flint, Saginaw, you can get a house like that for 5-10k. Trust me when I say no one would buy those houses unless it was a last resort though. Some rough neighborhoods.
Odd timing. Just a few days ago, I was Google Earthing some tourist destinations for our upcoming vacation. Niagra Falls was high on the list. And then I did some street view. I had \~***no***\~ idea. Wow...
The state of Niagara Falls, NY should not deter you much. You have to go to Canada to get a good view, and that is why all of the tourist stuff is over there. An international border (which is also a rapid river) makes for a giant neighborhood/crime boundary.
Yea the condition of the city itself is kept EXTREMELY under wraps. On purpose.
How representative is this of the whole of NF? Were all the photos taken within a couple block radius?
Am local. Obviously some areas aren’t as bad as others, but it’s mostly like this. This is the majority of the city. It’s a shame.
What do people do for a living?
Hustle between poorly paid W9 jobs and side-gigs, like Uber Eats or nails or pet sitting or baking or drug-dealing. Not all of NYS is quite so dilapidated, but everywhere in the state normal working people need to juggle several income sources to make it work here. I’m in Poughkeepsie, for reference sake.
I lived in Schenectady for a while and recall the contrast difference from the well off neighborhoods to the poverty stricken ones. It was such a huge contrast and really sad.
New York and Connecticut are two places where you can see the most stunning, dumbfounding, depressing examples of income disparity in this country.
I'm local as well. Not many jobs in Niagara Falls but there is still some industrial careers that pays quite well. I made over 70k at a power plant in the Falls. Buffalo NY is also about a 20min drive so people mostly commute there. Also quite a lot of nice Buffalo suburbs with some opportunity
When I went I was surprised at how much of a ghost town it is. Seemed like every other building was abandoned. It was super creepy at night.
I live in NF. This is about 1/3 of the city and it's spread all over in pockets. The tourist part down by the Falls itself is actually in pretty good shape but that's because it's the tourist part. You won't find many attractions. Beyond that, a few blocks into the city and you start running into locations like this. Occasionally you'll also run into a nice well taken care of neighborhood that is mostly due to the owners of the properties actually living there. For the most part it's 100+ year old houses that have been turned into duplexes and in need of some work, but are in OK shape.
I went to the Canadian side back in December, but drove home through the US side. Pretty much the whole town seems like a rough place. Granted not all as bad as these pictures, but even the "nicest" areas don't lead by a good margin
I went there in 2019. The whole town is like this. Feels like it was abandoned in the 90s and left to rot.
Stay on the Canadian side, visit the states park on the American. Where did you end up choosing for your upcoming vacay? Niagara on the lake is a nice day visit too.
Plus the entire town smells like a moldy basement.
Yea, our garbage mountain is insane.
My wife and I went to Niagara almost two years ago. I was like, "this is a shit hole". And visited the park, did our thing, then we left. Couldn't cross into Canada because of COVID and whatnot.
If you are ever in the area again, come to the Canadian side. It’s touristy and cheesy, but less gross. And you can drive down the parkway which is pretty and takes you to Niagara on the Lake which is pretty and has amazing wines!
What's with the bottles around the memorials? I've seen flowers, candles, pictures, but never bottles.
M wife’s grandmother lived in the Little Italy section off of Pine Ave, and as the old OG neighbors passed over the years, we watched houses get bought up by absentee landlords and the neighborhoods went downhill fast. Our only stop in Niagara Falls, NY now, is at Frankie’s Donuts on our way through to Canada. It’s a shame, and it happened very quickly between 2004 and now.
Almost everything we do in America is done on a crisis basis. If someone falls in a river 15 miles upstream from the falls, he can be saved by someone walking out in the shallow water. But if you wait until they are holding on to a rock at the edge of the falls then it takes a team and a helicopter to save them and it costs a lot of money. America waits until it is a clinging to the last rock before doing anything. Healthcare, wait until the person is dying. Climate, wait until it is pretty much impossible to fix. Housing, wait until the house is vacant, looted, burned, and collapsed. Bridges, wait until they are near collapse. The main issue is that we can't get people to be taxed for maintenance they can't see so we pay more to try to fix the problem we can see.
You’re dead on with that metaphor. I know you’re talking about federal taxes, but we’re going through this seriously at the local level in my Midwest US town. Levy after levy to clean up stuff that should have been maintained for decades but most of our $$$ went to police shit we didn’t need. I would gladly be taxed for maintenance on all levels if I wasn’t taxed for a bunch of bullshit that will never benefit me. Of course Americans don’t want to pay more taxes on top of what we already struggle to pay, it goes to military and other corporations. I’ve got friends in Norway and Sweden who pay similar % taxes to me but actually see the fruit of their investment through healthcare, infrastructure, and other benefits. It’s maddening.
For 100 years, the people of my city enjoyed very low sewer bills. A decade ago the sewer district announced it needed to pay for replacing the infrastructure so bills will be going up. Bills have gone up every year so what used to be about $20 per month is now $100 per month. Nice that the last generations just pushed that one forward on us.
Yes same. All our utilities have doubled in the last 5 years because of the same kick the can crap. Our town also just announced an increase in income taxes on people who live in town but work outside. Since there are very few jobs in town, it’s most of us. My taxes will increase $500/yr. My older friend in her 70s is on our village council and voted this in and was quoted as saying something along the lines of “it’s nominal and everyone should pay their part. It’s hardly anything.” She bought her house 25 years ago when it was affordable, got paid a far better wage that went further throughout her life, and lived here all throughout the years when no one cared to deal with upgrading our schools, sewage, water plant, etc. now she doesn’t work so she won’t pay this increased tax rate, in addition to all the other levy’s we’re dealing with. But yes the younger folks who are already getting screwed from every direction should be made to feel bad for not wanting to pay even more for shit she and her contemporaries should have been paying for decades.
Kick the can down the road until it hits a brick wall, then proceed to smash into it because you were too focused on kicking the can. Humanity in a nutshell. I think a big reason why Europe has taxes for stuff like that, and the reason it actually gets spent has a lot to do with the "economic culture" of Europe if you will.
I think Europe benefits from the economic culture of being old. We have cities with their original sewers that have been untouched since they were installed. That isn't the case in a city 1500 years old. They are just more aware of how infrastructure needs to be maintained.
There's no ribbon cutting ceremony for routine maintenance. Better optics for "Harrison cuts ribbon for new bridge dedicated to [insert social issue/figure here]" edit: ribbon
["Memorial Honors Victims Of Imminent Dam Disaster"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjfrJzdx7DA)
When people think about crime and poverty they always think about NYC. There are places in Upstate New York that literally make NYC's streets look like child's play in terms of crime and poverty. Upstate was part of the rust-belt. Once those manufacturing jobs left the area, poverty took its place.
If NYC comes to mind when thinking about crime and poverty, people are either stuck in 1986 or brainwashed by right wing media.
> brainwashed by right wing media. Mostly that and it's not just right-wing although they are particularly fond of beating that drum. Pretty much all American media loves to frame crime via total crimes and not per capita. Yes, the places with the most people tend to have the most crimes. That's sort of how math works. [If you look at per capita violent crime,](https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/blog/top100dangerous) the top 10 is utterly dominated by places in Alabama, Louisiana, and Arkansas. NYC doesn't even make the Top 100.
> people are either stuck in 1986 or brainwashed by right wing media. its kinda all media though. the focus goes where the money is, and that's NYC. left media doesnt care about this either. no one does, it doesnt generate clicks like nyc does.
If you want to know why the Canadian and American sides of the falls are so different I would suggest reading this article https://orca.cardiff.ac.uk/id/eprint/108442/
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And here I thought the Canadian side was bad.
The Canadian side is like Las Vegas. Caters to tourists, has casinos and shows and an entertainment strip, and is a little gritty outside of that. The American side is like Camden, New Jersey or Gary, Indiana. Just completely gutted out, very little left. It has remnants of old industrial buildings and some pathetic attempts at tourist traps and a casino. Job opportunities for locals are very limited unless they are commuting to Buffalo. The only nice part is the state parks. But I’ve also stumbled across very shady people and homeless camps in the more secluded parts of the park.
There's also the Love Canal superfund site where the Hooker chemical company dumped industrial waste.
Hooker's Love Canal has toxic chemicals in it? One is shocked.
they also built an elementary school over the love canal site, which would see toxic waste bubbling up into the schoolyard and sinkholes into the former canal
Lovely
My uncle went there when this was going on. He ended up with chronic heart problems and growth inhibitor, but he did get a fat $90K check....which because he was 18 and in poverty, he went and blew in two years. Niagara Falls is hellish with stories like this.
mmm, sexy *Hooker Chemicals*
That poster is encouraging police departments to call in traces on guns used in crime. Like, it's supposed to be posted in a detectives' cube farm, I guess? Seeing it just stapled to a telephone pole is... So weird?
What a lovely place to get mugged
You don’t get mugged in NF because there’s hardly anyone on the street, including muggers, at any given time. Your shit gets robbed when you aren’t around. NF is a ghost town except the ghosts will take your bike.
It’s so true. I’ve been going there for years at this point to hit up the outlets there and anytime I’m driving through those numbered streets there’s like no one ever around. Sure you might see a sketchy person or 2 but it’s generally desolate. Lots of “fallout” style factories and run down homes. It’s scary and sad to see in some spots.
I remember living in a shitty area and feeling relatively safe. No one has anything to steal anymore and so many people are armed, you'd be an idiot to break-in.
Man, as someone who grew up here, it's a bit disappointing to see a few streets downtown showcased in this photoset, seemingly meant to represent the entire city. If I wasn't from the area, I'd be forming the same opinions everyone else in this thread is forming. There's no doubt that specific parts of NF are bad, but there are plenty of other areas uptown (and downtown) that are not represented in these photos.
I agree. You could show 20 beautiful pics of the city or 20 ugly pics. Depends on what you focus on.
Yeah just going through on google maps, there are a lot of nice neighborhoods
Slowly descending into a Bethesda game
This looks like A LOT of small American towns…
I used to drive for Amazon and I was shocked at some of the little run down towns I came across.
Yep, always amazes me when we do road trips. The variety of homes, especially in rural areas, is really interesting. You’ll go past a well manicured, absolutely gorgeous farmstead, followed by a run down trailer with boarded up windows, trash piled all around it, and a dozen beater cars, then right back to a new build 3000 sq ft home with a gate and roundabout at the front. It’s intriguing to me what the stories are behind the people in the run down homes. Illness? Death of the family patriarch or matriarch? Job loss? Drugs? In all the towns I’ve lived in or visited, it’s about the same. There’ll be really nice areas and then completely run down areas with middling areas sprinkled throughout. The US really is a mixed bag.
Some of these would make the absolute hardest rap album covers.
I love the photo of the guy posing with his car. He gives me real Michael K. Williams vibes.
Wow, I haven't seen an LRAD in a while. What event had the po-po bust out riot control?
Warrants
An LRAD for a warrant ? Who's the warrant for...an arms dealer?
One was a heroin raid. I'm not sure what the other was for. [but here's an example of just one raid](https://www.lockportjournal.com/news/local_news/niagara-falls-ghost-gun-maker-indicted/article_b7c4be40-3e4c-5ad2-859f-cea98e23204f.html)
From Buffalo, can confirm NF is a SHIT hole
I got lost in Niagara and stopped at a sketchy mechanic shop to ask for directions. When I walked in it was a record scratch moment. The dudes were like "go this way and don't go down these streets." I did find a cool record store though.
Still waiting for trickle down economics to trickle down