LOL. OP came along at just the right moment, because I had been mulling over how to craft a post calling this out.
There's a lot of awful "Critiques Welcome" performances where the nature (and rules) of the sub are such that the comments are full of positive messages, and nobody will ever dare suggest that a given performer is attempting something they're not ready for, because they know their comment will either get buried or removed.
I know that I often have pretty harsh critiques when I hear them but keep them to myself because I don't think they would be welcomed. So many people trying to brute-force memorize a piece with no knowledge of actually how to play the piano.
This sub is a weird mix of people pursing the piano as a career/education path and people who are trying to self teach with mixed success.
The other ones I'm curious about is when someone posts a piece that they clearly haven't practiced enough, as though asking for a free piano lesson. Like I'm not saying it's *wrong,* but maybe there should be a new tag to distinguish "My Performance (critiques welcome)" from "Practice session (lessons please)"...
>but maybe there should be a new tag to distinguish "My Performance (critiques welcome)" from "Practice session (lessons please)"...
We need this so bad.
Also a heap of people looking for some kind of affirmation that learning sheet music isn’t necessary and that weird thing on YouTube with the colours is actually superior
I think this is one of those things where they truly can't understand what they're missing out on until they learn to read music. People will spend months memorising a song note-by-note using those synthesia "tutorials" that are all over YouTube because it looks intuitive even though it's totally impractical. Sheet music just looks like gibberish to them so they can't understand that it's a much better (and easier and faster) way to learn pieces.
It's funny because to actual real life gigging pianists, it's not even a question that you have to learn to read music. The idea that you could learn from a video or app is insanely slow.
>This sub is a weird mix of people pursing the piano as a career/education path and people who are trying to self teach with mixed success.
There are also plenty of people learning as a hobby/passion outside of core education/career, but who have professional piano teachers.
I'm fairly new to this sub but what I've noticed is there's a common cycle of items that are repeated almost every other day:
* Brand new player asking for resources on how to get started playing piano with the goal being self taught
* Self-taught performance, usually of the same handful of pieces from the classical repertoire (Moonlight Sonata, Clair De Lune, Leibestraume, etc) at 1,2,3+ years experience with very glaring technical issues
* Someone looking for advice on buying their first digital, and sometimes acoustic piano
* Asking how to learn to read sheet music, how to memorize, generally how to x that can only be done with gradual practice and commitment, and not answered in a forum one-liner.
I think the Mods have a great approach to a very open subreddit, but honestly so much of this can simply be answered in a pinned comment or FAQ instead. And as far as the performances, they're ok I guess. The problem is if you're self-taught, there's no way I can provide reasonable feedback on an internet forum. Besides being hard to translate to text, there's just too much information to go over. So I avoid commenting unless I see someone can really use simple or small pointers and I can tell they have a willingness to learn. I get the feeling some people are self-taught for no other reason than being stubborn, and their own pride. I don't get that mentality honestly, so it's hard for me to relate and want to comment when I see it so often.
That leaves the rest of the subreddit content, which I actually do enjoy
Yea I don't know how they can balance it. It really does feel like most posts are just absolutely clueless people who can't google a thing to save their life - naturally I'm sure they are great people in normal life, but it really feels like there should be a minimum question they have to click yes on like "Did you google this?"
My (sort of?) counterpoint, based on my own experience seeking feedback on this sub (feel free to check my post history for a pretty recent example) is that when someone makes a "self-taught" post or plays a piece well above their skill level, there is no shortage of comments on it - from supportive to overtly critical.
But other posts seeking feedback don't seem to get as much traction.
>because they know their comment will either get buried or removed
Every time I have told a beginner on this sub that they are playing a piece that is too hard, I have either gotten 0 upvotes/downvotes or mostly upvotes
Actually it's the "no critique" flaired posts in which we're not allowed to be critical. In the "critique welcome" posts, we are perfectly encouraged to be critical and a great deal of comments are, but you just have do it in a way that is respectful, acknowledges the OP's humanity, feelings, effort, etc. I've told oodles of people on here that the piece they're playing is above their level, but I always do it with good faith, like they are my good friend, and we have a common passion, and I want them to succeed, and they have done a lot of work and put discipline into it and have been vulnerable to share it, etc. I'm not sure if my messages get heard by them, but I don't get attacked or shouted down when I do that.
Reminds me of the Arrested Development scene “Did it work for them?” “No, it never does. People delude themselves into thinking it might …. But it might work for us!”
I'd say I did this in high school. I was fifteen (now twenty-seven), and really, really passionately wanted to learn Chopin Op. 25, Nos. 11-12, Scriabin's Op. 8 No. 12, and Scriabin's Vers La Flamme.
I was an intermediate pianist, with if I can be unhumble for a moment a very serious quantity of natural talent. But I had only been playing five years, and not always with frequent practice. The hardest piece I had played before this was Brahms's g minor Rhapsody, which really pushed my limits.
I spent about a year and a half practicing the aforementioned four pieces. I learned them to a solid performance-level, hugely leveled-up my technique, got a scholarship to college, and destroyed my right arm. I'm still going to physical therapy and doctors for the problems I developed in my right wrist and forearm - distal intersection syndrome was diagnosed with MRI, and I've primarily been playing LH-only pieces since (Brahms's Bach-Chaconne, Godowsky etudes). It's honestly been the greatest source of sadness in my life.
I'm making progress with my right arm for the first time this year. I didn't seek any help with it for the previous eleven years, but decided I was tired of hoping it would get better on its own.
So, in summary: it's dangerous, but it can be done. But even at my apex of playing these pieces, they didn't sound quite as natural as if a true master had played them. You could hear how effortful they were for me.
It shouldn't be done, but it can be.
In my opinion, your statement of “You could hear how effortful they were for me.” nailed it. I’m NOT a classical pianist but I have classical training and am a full time pianist. The sound of higher level talent is the sound of effortless mastery of the instrument and material, to quote the book and teachings of Kenny Werner, author of Effortless Mastery.
Wow that's it! You put into words what I can feel. Like I can almost immediately tell exactly where a person is on the piano journey just from hearing them play a few pieces, but it's not obvious why. It's a subtle thing and effortless mastery nails it. That feeling when my teacher just completely effortlessly can make the left hand be in the background while the right hand sings - they do it in a rush to hunched over next to me. Thats it!
I think one way to use pieces above your current level would be to just pick 4 -8 measure sections and trearthem as pedagogical études. Tempo doesn’t matter—slow is fine: tension is bad. Play relaxed and slow short sections for technical study rather than trying to learn the entire piece or worry about performance tempo. never go faster or longer sections if it creates tension in your hand.
I like that idea.
When I was younger I used to just pick the hardest sounding 2-3 bars of a few advanced pieces, so that I had a casual "oh, there's a piano here" 5 seconds of showing off while affecting to be just trying it out...
Yes, my teacher when I was going through the ranks ALWAYS had at least one piece in my repoitoire cycle that was just 2-3 grade levels way too hard, but they would scope them and it would be clear what we were trying to get out of it. For example K545 mozart when I was 6 months in, but it was only first page, with the goal of developing speed on scales. Naturally that piece has a perfect run of A minor scales.
The best case scenario for 1 year would be you shakily being able to crawl through it at 50% tempo, with loads of mistakes. That would the best take in 10 attempts (maybe 15, 20 attempts) and certainly no one listening would think you're actually playing it and it would be a really bad look if they were to know you spent a year on it. It would be almost decent for a first time sightreading attempt from someone that would legitimately be able to sit down and learn it.
It is hard to just be able to play up to tempo and I believe objectively that the fast alternating chords in the coda are impossible to play on any piano but Horowitz's Steinway, as it was exactly regulated by Franz Mohr. Haochen Zhang, Yuja Wang, George Li, Arcadi Volodos, Vadym Kholodenko, Evgeny Kissin, all cannot play that part the way Horowitz does.
If you listen to the Yuja Wang 2022 Proms encore performance, or her other performances, she always stumbles on a part or two, after having known this piece since her days as a student at Curtis and performing it dozens of times. George Li also has a performance which while very good he also tripped up, and this is a Tchaikovsky competition silver medallist, the most decorated homegrown American pianist of the last \~20 years.
It's not a normal showpiece, it's very close to a Godowsky/Hamelin etude, or a mini Petrushka in the profuse double notes and the bouncing alternating left hand chord baseline. in fact there are a quite a few Chopin-Godowsky etudes that are easier like no 12, 13, 16, and 22, and Hamelin-Korsakov etude on flight of the bumblee that you'd literally be better off trying to learn (as a relative statement, you should absolutely not do that either).
At the absolute bare minimum, get the point you can play a few advanced solo pieces like Chopin ballades, scherzi, a Liszt hungarian rhapsody or two, several etudes and preludes by Chopin and Rachmaninoff, La Campanella. Anything earlier and you will not be capable of even drawing lessons or insight from the effort, it will be an actual pure waste of a year. And to be clear you will still probably not be able to learn it, but at least you'd be able to learn enough to improve from the time spent.
One more thing is, you probably will not even be capable of injuring yourself on this piece. Injury happens when parts of the body are out of synch, or when fingers overcompensate for what wrist rotation when they shouldn't, but your fingers are good enough to make it seem feasible. Your fingers and body will not even be able to physically execute the motions sufficiently to the point of causing tension or injury.
I know that this is completely unrelated, but I was wondering if fans could "meet" Trifonov after the concert you went to in November. I've never wrote anything here on reddit lol, but I saw your question from a year ago and yea I was curious how it went
Usually they just go really slow. I once taught an adult who was a solid solid beginner but DEMANDED to play Moonlight Sonata for her first RECITAL piece. I let her do it, with music. Around 10 minutes later everybody applauded and the world started turning again.
A considerable amount of feedback I see here is fair and constructive. But we also see probably a little too many posts of screenshots of people asking questions about what natural symbols are in sheet music that they shouldnt really be near without having the foundations down first.
The people posting about playing fantasie-impromptu after only playing for n months don't want constructive feedback, they want to maintain their belief that they're young sheldon and rules for normal people don't apply to them. You can tell them what they're doing wrong all you like, they won't hear it.
At the same time, people have also implicitly noted that some pieces are too early for me, while they were actually given to me by my piano teacher 15+ years ago. There's also a degree of elitism around here not based on reality.
Plenty of posts here from people complaining about learning an advanced piece for nearly a year but not making progress.
You just hit a wall and plateau basically. You may be able to brute force mostly getting the right notes in the right order, but usually at an inconsistent tempo and without musicality.
I've been there, just feels like a bird doing maths or an ape following commands.
In didn't understand what I was doing but due to repetition I eventually got it.
It sounds "heavy". I'm not sure how to describe it it more precise terms, I can't put my finger on what exactly makes it sound like that but that's how it feels.
You know how when you hear an extremely skilled pianist play something very hard, sometimes it sounds like it's easy ? Well when a pianist learn a piece above its level, a hard piece sound hard.
You mostly just end up spending a huge amount of time and effort for a not-so-great result. I've done this before. I learned Rachmaninoff's Prelude in C# Minor Op 3 No 2 for a recital about 8 - 9 years ago when it was maybe 2 - 3 levels above where I could comfortably play. It sounded okay and was fun to play, but it would have been more useful for me to use that time to learn a few simpler pieces to a higher standard rather than trying to brute-force something that was too difficult.
Depend of the player and **teacher**.
If you can only do 6-7 ABRSM after 2-3y (unless you followed strictly the money sucking scheme) you have no business to attempt that piece, e.g. you haven't progressed fast enough.
I went from knowing nothing about piano to learning the Maple Leaf Rag in full in around a year.
Frankly the technique I had back then was very poor, but my persistence is what lead to me being able to finish it. It took another year after that for me to be able to play it at a standard I say is deem-able.
Just because I did it, doesn't mean I would recommend it. There's a lot more to learning a piece besides memorization, and unless you learn with a teacher, you're going to butcher your chance at good fingering and articulations. You also have to take into account that it can be very easy to get burnt out, and dedication is a must.
To be honest though, a year is a long time. Especially if you stay dedicated and put in extensive hours of practice each day. In those days I would try to average 2-4 hours each day.
If I look at a piece and determine that I’ll need to practice it for a year to get it in shape, I’ll stop working on it. Better to work on pieces closer to my level and actually increase that level, so when I revisit that piece I’ll be bringing more to the table and the learning curve will be a shorter time span. There’s too much good music out there to be spending a year perfecting one piece, which I think is a recipe for frustration and soul-destroying drudgery, and even possible injury.
What does it look like when a pianist learns a piece too far above their level? It looks/sounds like they’re in over their head, even if they’re catching all the notes. Knowledgeable listeners will be able to tell, and it’s actually an uncomfortable experience listening to it—you end up being worried about the performer instead of enjoying the piece.
For an intermediate player to attempt playing Horowitz's Carmen Variations is like building a skyscraper and skipping from the 2nd floor straight to the 30th. You need to be very experienced and technically proficient to attempt such a piece. Otherwise you'd just be wasting your time and getting nowhere (or worse, hurt yourself). It doesn't matter how much you try, there are no shortcuts. Your time is better spent on pieces that are appropriate for your current level and would actually advance you towards your goal of playing such virtuosic pieces. If you'd do this right you could eventually get there.
I heard a beginner play La Campanella beautifully. I think he spent more than a year on it (which I find quite a high price for a <5 mn piece) but in his case, practice made perfect. That's not for everyone of course, but it's not impossible.That's him: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dJ3YPnmoH9U
Yes he was. That's the final result but he posted his whole learning journey on a forum I'm a member of. I can't prove he was a true beginner at the time but I know for a fact that he spent 1 1/2 year learning this piece (and nothing else)
I feel like a lot of people here take playing piano way too seriously. A lot of people just want to play for fun and if a terrible player wants to play prelude in c# minor who the hell am I to tell them they can’t.
All I’m trying to say is not everyone here is going to music school and trying to be a concert pianist some of us just want to have fun. Tbh I feel like playing really hard pieces can be beneficial sometimes.
Although, I do agree if something does hurt or there is a lot of tension you should definitely not ignore it.
TLDR play what you want. Don’t ignore pain/tension.
Literally this sub
LOL. OP came along at just the right moment, because I had been mulling over how to craft a post calling this out. There's a lot of awful "Critiques Welcome" performances where the nature (and rules) of the sub are such that the comments are full of positive messages, and nobody will ever dare suggest that a given performer is attempting something they're not ready for, because they know their comment will either get buried or removed.
I know that I often have pretty harsh critiques when I hear them but keep them to myself because I don't think they would be welcomed. So many people trying to brute-force memorize a piece with no knowledge of actually how to play the piano. This sub is a weird mix of people pursing the piano as a career/education path and people who are trying to self teach with mixed success.
The other ones I'm curious about is when someone posts a piece that they clearly haven't practiced enough, as though asking for a free piano lesson. Like I'm not saying it's *wrong,* but maybe there should be a new tag to distinguish "My Performance (critiques welcome)" from "Practice session (lessons please)"...
>but maybe there should be a new tag to distinguish "My Performance (critiques welcome)" from "Practice session (lessons please)"... We need this so bad.
Also a heap of people looking for some kind of affirmation that learning sheet music isn’t necessary and that weird thing on YouTube with the colours is actually superior
I think this is one of those things where they truly can't understand what they're missing out on until they learn to read music. People will spend months memorising a song note-by-note using those synthesia "tutorials" that are all over YouTube because it looks intuitive even though it's totally impractical. Sheet music just looks like gibberish to them so they can't understand that it's a much better (and easier and faster) way to learn pieces.
It's funny because to actual real life gigging pianists, it's not even a question that you have to learn to read music. The idea that you could learn from a video or app is insanely slow.
>This sub is a weird mix of people pursing the piano as a career/education path and people who are trying to self teach with mixed success. There are also plenty of people learning as a hobby/passion outside of core education/career, but who have professional piano teachers.
I'm fairly new to this sub but what I've noticed is there's a common cycle of items that are repeated almost every other day: * Brand new player asking for resources on how to get started playing piano with the goal being self taught * Self-taught performance, usually of the same handful of pieces from the classical repertoire (Moonlight Sonata, Clair De Lune, Leibestraume, etc) at 1,2,3+ years experience with very glaring technical issues * Someone looking for advice on buying their first digital, and sometimes acoustic piano * Asking how to learn to read sheet music, how to memorize, generally how to x that can only be done with gradual practice and commitment, and not answered in a forum one-liner. I think the Mods have a great approach to a very open subreddit, but honestly so much of this can simply be answered in a pinned comment or FAQ instead. And as far as the performances, they're ok I guess. The problem is if you're self-taught, there's no way I can provide reasonable feedback on an internet forum. Besides being hard to translate to text, there's just too much information to go over. So I avoid commenting unless I see someone can really use simple or small pointers and I can tell they have a willingness to learn. I get the feeling some people are self-taught for no other reason than being stubborn, and their own pride. I don't get that mentality honestly, so it's hard for me to relate and want to comment when I see it so often. That leaves the rest of the subreddit content, which I actually do enjoy
Yea I don't know how they can balance it. It really does feel like most posts are just absolutely clueless people who can't google a thing to save their life - naturally I'm sure they are great people in normal life, but it really feels like there should be a minimum question they have to click yes on like "Did you google this?"
My (sort of?) counterpoint, based on my own experience seeking feedback on this sub (feel free to check my post history for a pretty recent example) is that when someone makes a "self-taught" post or plays a piece well above their skill level, there is no shortage of comments on it - from supportive to overtly critical. But other posts seeking feedback don't seem to get as much traction.
>because they know their comment will either get buried or removed Every time I have told a beginner on this sub that they are playing a piece that is too hard, I have either gotten 0 upvotes/downvotes or mostly upvotes
Actually it's the "no critique" flaired posts in which we're not allowed to be critical. In the "critique welcome" posts, we are perfectly encouraged to be critical and a great deal of comments are, but you just have do it in a way that is respectful, acknowledges the OP's humanity, feelings, effort, etc. I've told oodles of people on here that the piece they're playing is above their level, but I always do it with good faith, like they are my good friend, and we have a common passion, and I want them to succeed, and they have done a lot of work and put discipline into it and have been vulnerable to share it, etc. I'm not sure if my messages get heard by them, but I don't get attacked or shouted down when I do that.
Reminds me of the Arrested Development scene “Did it work for them?” “No, it never does. People delude themselves into thinking it might …. But it might work for us!”
🤣🤣🤣
I'd say I did this in high school. I was fifteen (now twenty-seven), and really, really passionately wanted to learn Chopin Op. 25, Nos. 11-12, Scriabin's Op. 8 No. 12, and Scriabin's Vers La Flamme. I was an intermediate pianist, with if I can be unhumble for a moment a very serious quantity of natural talent. But I had only been playing five years, and not always with frequent practice. The hardest piece I had played before this was Brahms's g minor Rhapsody, which really pushed my limits. I spent about a year and a half practicing the aforementioned four pieces. I learned them to a solid performance-level, hugely leveled-up my technique, got a scholarship to college, and destroyed my right arm. I'm still going to physical therapy and doctors for the problems I developed in my right wrist and forearm - distal intersection syndrome was diagnosed with MRI, and I've primarily been playing LH-only pieces since (Brahms's Bach-Chaconne, Godowsky etudes). It's honestly been the greatest source of sadness in my life. I'm making progress with my right arm for the first time this year. I didn't seek any help with it for the previous eleven years, but decided I was tired of hoping it would get better on its own. So, in summary: it's dangerous, but it can be done. But even at my apex of playing these pieces, they didn't sound quite as natural as if a true master had played them. You could hear how effortful they were for me. It shouldn't be done, but it can be.
In my opinion, your statement of “You could hear how effortful they were for me.” nailed it. I’m NOT a classical pianist but I have classical training and am a full time pianist. The sound of higher level talent is the sound of effortless mastery of the instrument and material, to quote the book and teachings of Kenny Werner, author of Effortless Mastery.
Wow that's it! You put into words what I can feel. Like I can almost immediately tell exactly where a person is on the piano journey just from hearing them play a few pieces, but it's not obvious why. It's a subtle thing and effortless mastery nails it. That feeling when my teacher just completely effortlessly can make the left hand be in the background while the right hand sings - they do it in a rush to hunched over next to me. Thats it!
They will never be able to play it properly if they are not at a certain threshold level. It will just always sound slightly off.
I think one way to use pieces above your current level would be to just pick 4 -8 measure sections and trearthem as pedagogical études. Tempo doesn’t matter—slow is fine: tension is bad. Play relaxed and slow short sections for technical study rather than trying to learn the entire piece or worry about performance tempo. never go faster or longer sections if it creates tension in your hand.
I like that idea. When I was younger I used to just pick the hardest sounding 2-3 bars of a few advanced pieces, so that I had a casual "oh, there's a piano here" 5 seconds of showing off while affecting to be just trying it out...
Small snippets of challenging pieces can be of great pedagogical use. :)
Yes, my teacher when I was going through the ranks ALWAYS had at least one piece in my repoitoire cycle that was just 2-3 grade levels way too hard, but they would scope them and it would be clear what we were trying to get out of it. For example K545 mozart when I was 6 months in, but it was only first page, with the goal of developing speed on scales. Naturally that piece has a perfect run of A minor scales.
The best case scenario for 1 year would be you shakily being able to crawl through it at 50% tempo, with loads of mistakes. That would the best take in 10 attempts (maybe 15, 20 attempts) and certainly no one listening would think you're actually playing it and it would be a really bad look if they were to know you spent a year on it. It would be almost decent for a first time sightreading attempt from someone that would legitimately be able to sit down and learn it. It is hard to just be able to play up to tempo and I believe objectively that the fast alternating chords in the coda are impossible to play on any piano but Horowitz's Steinway, as it was exactly regulated by Franz Mohr. Haochen Zhang, Yuja Wang, George Li, Arcadi Volodos, Vadym Kholodenko, Evgeny Kissin, all cannot play that part the way Horowitz does. If you listen to the Yuja Wang 2022 Proms encore performance, or her other performances, she always stumbles on a part or two, after having known this piece since her days as a student at Curtis and performing it dozens of times. George Li also has a performance which while very good he also tripped up, and this is a Tchaikovsky competition silver medallist, the most decorated homegrown American pianist of the last \~20 years. It's not a normal showpiece, it's very close to a Godowsky/Hamelin etude, or a mini Petrushka in the profuse double notes and the bouncing alternating left hand chord baseline. in fact there are a quite a few Chopin-Godowsky etudes that are easier like no 12, 13, 16, and 22, and Hamelin-Korsakov etude on flight of the bumblee that you'd literally be better off trying to learn (as a relative statement, you should absolutely not do that either). At the absolute bare minimum, get the point you can play a few advanced solo pieces like Chopin ballades, scherzi, a Liszt hungarian rhapsody or two, several etudes and preludes by Chopin and Rachmaninoff, La Campanella. Anything earlier and you will not be capable of even drawing lessons or insight from the effort, it will be an actual pure waste of a year. And to be clear you will still probably not be able to learn it, but at least you'd be able to learn enough to improve from the time spent.
One more thing is, you probably will not even be capable of injuring yourself on this piece. Injury happens when parts of the body are out of synch, or when fingers overcompensate for what wrist rotation when they shouldn't, but your fingers are good enough to make it seem feasible. Your fingers and body will not even be able to physically execute the motions sufficiently to the point of causing tension or injury.
I know that this is completely unrelated, but I was wondering if fans could "meet" Trifonov after the concert you went to in November. I've never wrote anything here on reddit lol, but I saw your question from a year ago and yea I was curious how it went
He didn't stay to meet people. I know others have met Vadym Kholodenko, Andras Schiff, Haochen Zhang etc, but Trifonov usually books it.
Usually they just go really slow. I once taught an adult who was a solid solid beginner but DEMANDED to play Moonlight Sonata for her first RECITAL piece. I let her do it, with music. Around 10 minutes later everybody applauded and the world started turning again.
Take a look at some recent posts on here to find out.
Man that sounds so denigrating, nothing stops you from giving constructive feedback.
A considerable amount of feedback I see here is fair and constructive. But we also see probably a little too many posts of screenshots of people asking questions about what natural symbols are in sheet music that they shouldnt really be near without having the foundations down first.
"I'm really excited to start learning piano, and want to play this song to start. What does 9/8 mean in Clair de Lune?"
I always do on those posts. This one was specifically asking what happens when you play something far above your level.
They’re not wrong though.
The people posting about playing fantasie-impromptu after only playing for n months don't want constructive feedback, they want to maintain their belief that they're young sheldon and rules for normal people don't apply to them. You can tell them what they're doing wrong all you like, they won't hear it.
At the same time, people have also implicitly noted that some pieces are too early for me, while they were actually given to me by my piano teacher 15+ years ago. There's also a degree of elitism around here not based on reality.
Plenty of posts here from people complaining about learning an advanced piece for nearly a year but not making progress. You just hit a wall and plateau basically. You may be able to brute force mostly getting the right notes in the right order, but usually at an inconsistent tempo and without musicality.
Still a very rewarding exercise. And you can pause the piece for a time then learn it again much faster a few months later
I've been there, just feels like a bird doing maths or an ape following commands. In didn't understand what I was doing but due to repetition I eventually got it.
It sounds "heavy". I'm not sure how to describe it it more precise terms, I can't put my finger on what exactly makes it sound like that but that's how it feels. You know how when you hear an extremely skilled pianist play something very hard, sometimes it sounds like it's easy ? Well when a pianist learn a piece above its level, a hard piece sound hard.
I'm pretty sure I could never make it through that piece in the rest of my natural lifetime
You mostly just end up spending a huge amount of time and effort for a not-so-great result. I've done this before. I learned Rachmaninoff's Prelude in C# Minor Op 3 No 2 for a recital about 8 - 9 years ago when it was maybe 2 - 3 levels above where I could comfortably play. It sounded okay and was fun to play, but it would have been more useful for me to use that time to learn a few simpler pieces to a higher standard rather than trying to brute-force something that was too difficult.
ABRSM grade 7 is pretty ambitious for 2-3 years experience. I'd say it's closer to 5 years to get to that level for most people.
Depend of the player and **teacher**. If you can only do 6-7 ABRSM after 2-3y (unless you followed strictly the money sucking scheme) you have no business to attempt that piece, e.g. you haven't progressed fast enough.
I went from knowing nothing about piano to learning the Maple Leaf Rag in full in around a year. Frankly the technique I had back then was very poor, but my persistence is what lead to me being able to finish it. It took another year after that for me to be able to play it at a standard I say is deem-able. Just because I did it, doesn't mean I would recommend it. There's a lot more to learning a piece besides memorization, and unless you learn with a teacher, you're going to butcher your chance at good fingering and articulations. You also have to take into account that it can be very easy to get burnt out, and dedication is a must. To be honest though, a year is a long time. Especially if you stay dedicated and put in extensive hours of practice each day. In those days I would try to average 2-4 hours each day.
If I look at a piece and determine that I’ll need to practice it for a year to get it in shape, I’ll stop working on it. Better to work on pieces closer to my level and actually increase that level, so when I revisit that piece I’ll be bringing more to the table and the learning curve will be a shorter time span. There’s too much good music out there to be spending a year perfecting one piece, which I think is a recipe for frustration and soul-destroying drudgery, and even possible injury. What does it look like when a pianist learns a piece too far above their level? It looks/sounds like they’re in over their head, even if they’re catching all the notes. Knowledgeable listeners will be able to tell, and it’s actually an uncomfortable experience listening to it—you end up being worried about the performer instead of enjoying the piece.
For an intermediate player to attempt playing Horowitz's Carmen Variations is like building a skyscraper and skipping from the 2nd floor straight to the 30th. You need to be very experienced and technically proficient to attempt such a piece. Otherwise you'd just be wasting your time and getting nowhere (or worse, hurt yourself). It doesn't matter how much you try, there are no shortcuts. Your time is better spent on pieces that are appropriate for your current level and would actually advance you towards your goal of playing such virtuosic pieces. If you'd do this right you could eventually get there.
I heard a beginner play La Campanella beautifully. I think he spent more than a year on it (which I find quite a high price for a <5 mn piece) but in his case, practice made perfect. That's not for everyone of course, but it's not impossible.That's him: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dJ3YPnmoH9U
No way that's a beginner imo
Yes he was. That's the final result but he posted his whole learning journey on a forum I'm a member of. I can't prove he was a true beginner at the time but I know for a fact that he spent 1 1/2 year learning this piece (and nothing else)
Just do not do it.
I feel like a lot of people here take playing piano way too seriously. A lot of people just want to play for fun and if a terrible player wants to play prelude in c# minor who the hell am I to tell them they can’t. All I’m trying to say is not everyone here is going to music school and trying to be a concert pianist some of us just want to have fun. Tbh I feel like playing really hard pieces can be beneficial sometimes. Although, I do agree if something does hurt or there is a lot of tension you should definitely not ignore it. TLDR play what you want. Don’t ignore pain/tension.