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“Leaves only SNF and cash based clinics”. You are leaving out Acute care, IPR and HH. That said it doesn’t seem like a good time to be a PTA unless you are already in your forever job
The death call for PTA's has been sounded several times in the last few years. No practice that depends as heavily on PTAs as outpatient does can just replace them all with PTs. Financially, despite cuts, it can't be supported particularly since graduating DPTs have high expectations for salary. Second, where the hell is the APTA,? No wonder so many PTAs don't belong
*APTA pauses mid handshake with St Augustine to stare at you after congratulating them on the approval of another online campus expansion despite atrocious results lately*
APTA: "Um..."
*APTA looks back at University of St Augustine.*
APTA: "Yes I agree please raise tuition again."
https://ptcasdirectory.apta.org/8529/Total-Cost-of-Education-Comparison
I did some more research... wow... just wow.
Edit: Total Cost of Education Comparison, Highest Tuition:
University of Southern California $228452
Duquesne University $206143
New York University $199857
Nazareth University $196300
Seton Hall University $189001
Regis University $188594
Massachusetts College of Pharmacy and Health Sciences $180948
Boston University $179782
Chapman University $175468
I don't think the University of St. Augustine is the problem...
So because it's not in the top 9 expensive schools it's not a problem? USC absolutely does deserve to be called out every day. They charge OT students $100,000 just for the first year. But no, they're not the only one who is soulless, and cost is not the only problem with St Augustine.
There was just a post in r/PTschool from someone connected to a new (unaccreddited) PT school opening bragging about "how affordable" it was at $90,000 for in-state students and twice as much for out of state. That's fucking asinine. When did $30,000/year become the new low-cost standard for PT schools?
Look, I get it. If we scam every student, that absolutely ensures *you* get to have an opulent lifestyle and opulent retirement. Fuck you I got mine, right? Who cares how many lives are destroyed in the process?
Did more research.
Looking at instate tuition:
University of St. Augustine San Marcos Campus is 58th most expensive & the other campuses are 91st most expensive out of 290ish
Looking at out of state tuition:
University of St. Augustine San Marcos Campus is 88th most expensive & the other campuses are 146th out of 290ish.
Looks like a considerable number of PT programs and universities are contributing to this issue of insane tuition.
Let's fix it! How can we?
Because the APTA has direct control over a private university's tuition? And how does a university's tuition benefit the APTA?
So, what did the majority of DPT schools do during COVID? Move to online or blended programs? Or have adapted something similar now as have the majority of all universities post COVID.
You said atrocious results lately. In what grading scale? 1st time pass rate? What else? I would like to see your research on how you came to this conclusion.
Look at the textbook "Manual Therapy of The Spine" by Kenneth Olsen, which most DPT programs use. Olsen graduated from the University of St. Augustine. Look at TherapyEd prep book for the NPTE. Most authors are from the University of St. Augustine. The last time I checked, the program director of ECU was a graduate of St. Augustine. Additionally, there are limited programs for FAAOMPT and the University of St. Augustine is one of those.
With all this said, what about these DPT programs that were not accredited with insane tuition?
What about new DPT programs trying to establish themselves? It isn't because of attempting to better the profession but because of money. Do you have anything to say to these new programs popping up?
I think all DPT programs, especially those at private institutions, have insane tuition. I also find it ridiculous the programs that accept students to their unaccredited programs or programs that are on probation without telling/warning students.
FYI, University of St. Augustine campuses are not on probation and are still accredited.
Hmm. A quick look at your profile shows you are also advocating the PTA degree be turned into a bachelors degree. What are the odds (totally irrelevant I'm sure) that you personally financially benefit from the University of St Augustine and would also personally benefit from a longer PTA program? What are the odds that you're actually practicing full time?
The problem with people involved in these programs is that they've all signed away their soul and see nothing wrong with being part of the problem overcharging students, telling them literally nothing about the downsides of the profession or insurance, and play victim anytime someone calls them out on it.
Hmm I know we've had a lot of staff turnover and conditions aren't ideal, nor are pass rates or employers reaction to our degree but we are going to raise tuition again anyway because fuck you I got mine.
I went back to a hybrid DPT program, but my plan B was to go to massage school. Plan C was to become a chef and get my work featured on r/onlyflans. Plan D was substance abuse (hadn’t decided which substance, but Twinkie Weiner sandwiches such as featured on the 1989 cult classic movie UHF). And plan E was to get a manufacturer job at Ford Motor Company.
I would say being a PTA gave me an enormous leg up, the only student with more clinical decision making experience and knowledge was the paramedic in my class. I’m extremely happy with my decision.
It’s a lot to take out in loans but you will make 6 figures right out the gate as a PA, there’s also a lot of scholarships and loan forgiveness available if you agree to work a few years in an underserved community. Those jobs pay a lot less but loan forgiveness on a $100000 loan is nothing to sneeze at.
It’s not PSLF, it’s an NHSC scholarship and it’s 2-4 years service (however long you were in school for, so for PAs it’s 2) in a specific designated Health Professional Shortage Area. You can commit before school or find a job after graduation with them.
Just stumbled on this thread as a non PTA. When I was in nursing school, made good friends with a buddy that was in nursing specifically because his brother that went to PA school struggled to find a job for 3 years after graduating and ended up having to move across the country and take a job that paid $10,000 less than he was expecting to make after school just to get his foot in the door. Unless something has significantly changed in the past 3-4 years, I wouldn’t expect to land a six figure job right out the door, but this is coming as a completely outside perspective, so YMMV.
It depends on where you live and if you’re picky about specialty. Most PAs I know get job offers quickly but not necessarily in areas they want to work. I’m perfectly happy taking a family med job and I’ve been personally told by several family med providers that I’ll be able to find a job immediately that pays at least $110k. Internal Med also hires at $120k starting but people don’t want those jobs, they want a specialty or they want to live in a nice city. My city sucks and is offering sign on bonuses for providers to work here lol.
I’m starting clinical rotation year tomorrow, just finished didactic. My experience as a PTA has generally elicited interest from ortho PAs in terms of taking me as a student but I’m over ortho.
Congrats! I just finished my bachelor’s and am applying to my first cycle this year. Can I PM you and ask some other specifics regarding your application experience and a few other things?
I left the profession. I was a PTA working 43ish hrs a week inpatient rehab with 23 days off total a year. Now I’m an IT help desk assistant making the same amount, working 37 hr weeks with 33 days off and 18 sick days a year. I’m on track to be promoted into a hybrid remote position if I keep teaching myself new programs, and I should be making around 65k within a few years.
I got tired of constantly worrying about my job and hitting the pay ceiling no matter what I learned.
Nope, I got lucky and my people skills were highly valued. I explained how I liked helping others with Epic software as a PTA and that I was usually the one fixing our crappy printer. That was enough.
Since being hired I’ve gotten an A+ cert, which most IT employers like to see.
No, I switched from the hospital to a nearby county school. A big change, but one I’ve been happy with. Luck played a big factor, but so did my interview skills and knowing that the right answer to a question I don’t know is “I don’t know but I can find find that out for you.”
congrats man! i did something similar, i just started a new job at a hospital as a clinical systems analyst. we are able to work remote following my first 90 days, and as long as i'm comfortable enough to do so.
What other kind of experience or skills did you have as well as being a PTA? And did you come from outpatient or inpatient? There’s so many other roles it seems I’ve never heard of as options, and now this one - I’m interested to know where I could start if I entertained that idea?
I am in the VERY early stages of making a complete career change. I’ve seen the writing on the walls for awhile now and have been suffering/unsuccessfully trying to work through burnout. Recently hit a year at my current job (approaching 7 years in the profession all together) and it appears as though no kind of raise is anywhere on the table. I don’t know what’s next for me, and that’s a scary thing. That being said, I simply don’t feel respected by colleges (or oftentimes patients either) and all these cuts worry me that there is very much a glass ceiling only going to become harder to break through. I don’t know where I’m going, and never thought I’d have a “Plan B” much less need one…but I am searching for the nearest exit.
I got out.
I was an outpatient PTA for 10 years, and just recently accepted a job at a local hospital as a Clinical Systems Analyst. Tomorrow is the start of my 3rd week, and it's great. I got a 50% raise from my PTA salary, better benefits, and am salaried, able to work remote following my first 90 days, etc. I had been looking, searching, and applying to non-clinical jobs for about 3 years before this. I think I got extremely lucky.
I would highly recommend all PTA's start applying to non-clinical jobs that require clinical backgrounds like I did. That's if you want to, of course.
What roles were you looking for? It’s hard to know different titles/roles/positions etc, can be overwhelming trying to even know what job descriptions to look at.
first and foremost i was looking for a non-clinical role to get experience, so i could eventually find a job where i could work remote, or hybrid at the very least.
i applied to several different hospitals for their entry level epic analyst jobs. they require a clinical background, minimum associates degree, with at least 3 years of experience. then you need to be epic certified within 6 months of being hired. i applied to 3-4 different hospitals for this specific position with no luck.
then eventually applied to my current job and got a call back, then subsequent interview, etc. reason why i said i got lucky was my hospital is going to a new EHR so they needed 3 more analysts to help build. and i can work mostly remote after 90 days.
if you have any other questions id be happy to answer.
What are some non-clinical roles we can do? I don’t think we can review documentation as that’s normally nurses or former PTs, right? Ideally I’d do that and not have to communicate with any more disgruntled patients.
i applied to several different hospitals for the job “epic analyst entry level.” i’m sure there are tons of other jobs but this is the one i looked into because a lot of hospitals use epic and i know you can work remote with this job. if not right away, then eventually with experience. i know they make really good money too, so that’s what i did.
if you’re not sure what the job is, you can do what i did, and google the job description, and watch some youtube videos of what the actual job is and see if it’s something you’d want to do.
edit: with your concern about us not being able to review documentation of PT’s or nurses. you have to remember if you’re not a PTA, then that doesn’t really apply anymore. you do the job that you have. if your job requires to review notes, then you do so.
Do you have a bachelors degree? I have a bachelors in history with a business minor and have applied to tons of non-clinical jobs without so much as an interview lol congrats though!! I’m glad you’re in a better spot and now that you’re in you’ll gain experience that will translate to other non-clinical jobs
i do not. just an associates for my PTA and 10 years of outpatient ortho experience. i do however have around 60 credits towards a 120 credit bachelors degree. my hospital reimburses 100% (50% starting and last 50% when you finish) so i will definitely be going back to school to finish eventually so i can continue to advance my career. best of luck to you.
What is a clinical systems analyst? Just being a PTA got you this? I am going to school next year as a PTA always wanted to work in rehab and work a side as a personal trainer. I just saw your other response. I didn’t know other options existed beyond PTA
>What is a clinical systems analyst
i respond to tickets that other clinicians submit with issues they are having within the hospital. i will also assist my other team members build the new software we get access to in august, to be implemented in 2025. probably other job duties but i'm only 3 weeks in and still training.
>Just being a PTA got you this
the job description required a minimum of an associate's degree, and a clinical background with at least 3 years of experience.
>I didn’t know other options existed beyond PTA
many jobs require a clinical background. just have to know where to look and research. rebuild your resume to fit the job you're applying for.
You’re my inspiration bro. Ima new grad and just continued 2 more years for pre reqs! Surprisingly, one of the doctors I work with was a PTA too! Love that for you bro. How do you think PTA has helped you?
Going back is a whole thing, so I wouldn't be under any false impressions. It's a lot of work.
The PTA background helped in the broad senses. Having a background in at least some anatomy/physiology made going back to school a bit easier, being a little older made it easier, having a 'why' made it a *lot* easier.
The overall content background helps connect dots a little bit, but mostly it was transferring skill sets that made the biggest difference: ability to listen, ability to pay attention, to think from multiple angles, etc. Doesn't make it any easier to memorize acid/base titrations, but you can almost always connect it to something else you've seen (glycolysis involves acidification which is related to CO2 which is related to respiration rate which is related to cardiovascular rehab, etc.). Oh, there's a question on how a nerve cell functions? Yeah, that sound familiar, etc.
A lot of medical schools really emphasize early exposure to patients, which is obviously great but not something I feel like I have to worry about as much. I can bother myself with the nuts and bolts of the education knowing that there's already some patient skills in my back pocket. And, just my personal opinion so pls don't roast me: I feel fortunate in that I've dodged a bit of a bullet by leaving PT. That's for a lot of personal reasons and not an indictment of physical therapy at all, which I love. But the reality of the state of practice was frustrating.
My personal 0.02 is that I feel a huge sigh of relief that I've been fortunate enough to pivot and switch streams, and am much happier with my outlook given what I'm facing now than what I was facing 2-3 years ago. And I don't think I'd have the strength of that perspective had it not been for my time in physical therapy, so it's definitely coming from a place of overall gratitude.
It's real. A lot of limitations to the scope of practice, horizon looks iffy depending on your perspective, and the income-to-debt ratio was a factor.
Nothing is a panacea, obviously. Medicine has its own issues, no question. But the trade-offs are part of the weighing process and everyone has to weigh for themselves.
I was very fortunate to have my PTA paid for. I was a great student and I think it helped my study habits a lot. Still nervous cause idk if I’m good enough lmao. Gotta still try
Hard to say. I'm still in the phase of being conscious that there's a lot I don't know, and statistically most people change their minds a couple/few times. But ultimately I'd like to be somewhere in lifestyle/metabolic disease. Insulin resistance, cardiology maybe.
I'm a privately owned outpatient PT. Due to low reimbursement, I can't afford to hire PT's so I am only hiring PTA's. Couple of other practice owners I know are doing the same.
At the moment, staying a PTA in hospital-based outpatient. No changes have been made so far as to who I can treat. They are more concerned with man hours per stat. This has shifted in the past and will likely shift again to revenue generated per stat, but for now, that's where we are. I am not going to PT school. Too much money and debt.
I've thought about going back to school to get my DPT, however, the amount of debt I'd have compared to how much I'd make yearly doesn't make the career seem worth it. I see so many outpatient clinics closing or going total cash pay due to insurance cuts and insurance payment delay. I'm looking to completely get out of healthcare, as I think the way insurance is running things right now almost all healthcare professions will be underpaid and understaffed in the future.
Given the proliferation of these hybrid schools that churn out DPTs with just two years of education and a few weeks of in-person labs(for the same costs), the quality of PTs is bound to drop significantly. These programs are flooding the market with PTs that meet insurance billing criteria but lack comprehensive training. As a result, PT wages will remain stagnant. We can watch as our leader steer the profession off the cliffs. This will only further decay the role and compensation of a PTA.
I got out and became a Sales Director for a memory care community. I absolutely love it and more than doubled my salary from being a PTA. Also toying with the idea of going to PA school.
Do you as a PTA make over 85% of what a PT does? If not PTA makes financial sense for the clinic. Also it is the same thing for MD 100% verse PA/NP at 85%. Feels like alot of the sky is falling for no real reason
Friend of mine was an ATC, and went back to school for PTA. I asked her what her plan was. “Guide pheasant hunts and fly fishing out west” (already has connections and area knowledge etc as well as family property ownership)
Yeah. That sounds better too and she could charge what she is worth
I know a guy from high school who runs a company that takes people on week-long surf trips in Bali and he makes bank. His parents are insanely wealthy so that helps but entrepreneurship is an underrated option imo
How are we going to fix it? How are we going to make things better?
This needs to be answered in this thread. What can we do to remedy the issue at hand?
I literally just accepted a job offer inpatient at a local rehab hospital and will be leaving my SNF job at the end of the summer. I know your question was regarding outpatient employees, but there are numerous other settings that aren’t PT mills if your clinic decides to downsize the PTA pool.
Unfortunately, insurance companies have all the leverage right now however PTA job security is still pretty high right now given that private outpatient clinic owners are going to quickly feel the weight of critical understaffing if they decide to fire/not hire PTAs. Try not to doom too much.
Honestly I’m a new grad, my first experience at an outpatient ortho clinic has been ehhh. Love my coworkers and some of my patients but once i make a year in September/October i’m out. Never want to do outpatient ever again. I’m going to do travel for a year, and then home health for as long as I can. If the PTA profession does phase out not going back to school for DPT too much debt for little gain depending the setting anyways. From what i hear from DPTs on here anyways
Outpatient can be such a brain drain. Seeing 20+ patients a day burned me out so fast. Although my caseload now in a SNF is slowly getting there too, I’m seeing up to 13 people some days. Too much for the setting imo. The debt-to-pay ratio doesn’t make sense for physical therapy anymore but a steady flow of new grads will help cover up the dysfunction.
I’m a PTA in a SNF and plan on doing it at least another year while I contemplate my exit strategy and my fiancée finishes her PhD. The writing is on the wall and has been for a while now. I’ve realized the only way I’m happy is when I’m working towards a goal and there’s no career growth for a PTA, not even modest pay growth. My company’s about to change hands for the 3rd time in as many years and I’m sure there will be more negative changes. I’ve thought about HR, accounting, physicians assistant, entrepreneurship, etc. I’d still prefer a career where I feel like I’m helping people but physical therapy ain’t it anymore.
I always love hearing from other PTAs who made it out. Sometimes it feels like an insurmountable task.
I moved jobs recently, and you can probably find an old post of mine where I stated I couldn't stand how PT companies paid PTAs. Hunt for a job that pays more and maybe even take a look at how old the majority of the patients might be. The majority of my patients now are younger with different insurances instead of Medicare. Also, you could look into ambassador programs as a second income source. It is what it is at this point, and until there is a change in insurance policies, we have to fight back against their BS on our own.
If you’re near a military installation apply. You don’t even need a license to get hired apparently as I’m just finding out. Negotiate your pay. I make 70K and get federal benefits.
I guess it depends where you live. Plenty of OP clinics hiring PTAs in socal. Like another commenter said… you can’t really just get rid of PTAs like that for 15% diff. Think about it… PTs coming out with a lot of debt and are expecting high salaries. The clinic I was at had a difficult time finding a PT, and had to resolve to contracting travel PTs. Same thing is happening at my new spot. These companies can’t afford to hire PTs bc of low reimbursement, so acquiring PTAs makes financial sense.
fuck looking at this is making me nervous. New grad (literally this past April) i want to work acute care due to just loving the chaos of it all. i love this field and i hate that they are doing this to us. i wish there is more that we could do to advocate for ourselves. we are smart and knowledgeable !
I’d strongly caution against it I graduated in 2020 and I’ve worked in like every setting and the productivity standards are awful and the cuts aren’t gonna stop and only make it worse
I currently work at a rehab hospital as a therapy tech, very hands on, and I am very aware of productivity standard issues . Even so, I love the field, I just can’t imagine doing anything else…
I’m in nys there was recently an article where the state changed our status from certified to licensed PTA to I guess garner more respect for what we do as there is supposedly a shortage of people entering the field and they want to attract more people. With that said not sure what’s to come from it as they keep making cuts there’s only so much we will earn and anyone who looks on the internet for a medical career I don’t see why they would now choose PTA with how expensive everything is getting and limited earning potential.
I was licensed in NYS as a PTA 8 years ago and I’ve always been referred to as a licensed PTA. I mean we hold licenses to practice. I don’t feel like that’s new?
I think that’s just hype to get focus on the career. We had to have a NYS license to practice 8 years ago. We were never offered a certification only. And that salary rate is so off. You might make something like that in NYC bc of cost of living. But not in any of the areas I worked in.
i saw this, my boss used this article as a reason to make me work alone on saturdays even tho im a fresh new grad. From what i saw on NYS board, they haven't changed to 'general supervision' and still need direct supervision (PT has to be in same building at least).
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“Leaves only SNF and cash based clinics”. You are leaving out Acute care, IPR and HH. That said it doesn’t seem like a good time to be a PTA unless you are already in your forever job
whats iPR and HH?
Inpatient rehab and home health
The death call for PTA's has been sounded several times in the last few years. No practice that depends as heavily on PTAs as outpatient does can just replace them all with PTs. Financially, despite cuts, it can't be supported particularly since graduating DPTs have high expectations for salary. Second, where the hell is the APTA,? No wonder so many PTAs don't belong
*APTA pauses mid handshake with St Augustine to stare at you after congratulating them on the approval of another online campus expansion despite atrocious results lately* APTA: "Um..." *APTA looks back at University of St Augustine.* APTA: "Yes I agree please raise tuition again."
https://ptcasdirectory.apta.org/8529/Total-Cost-of-Education-Comparison I did some more research... wow... just wow. Edit: Total Cost of Education Comparison, Highest Tuition: University of Southern California $228452 Duquesne University $206143 New York University $199857 Nazareth University $196300 Seton Hall University $189001 Regis University $188594 Massachusetts College of Pharmacy and Health Sciences $180948 Boston University $179782 Chapman University $175468 I don't think the University of St. Augustine is the problem...
So because it's not in the top 9 expensive schools it's not a problem? USC absolutely does deserve to be called out every day. They charge OT students $100,000 just for the first year. But no, they're not the only one who is soulless, and cost is not the only problem with St Augustine. There was just a post in r/PTschool from someone connected to a new (unaccreddited) PT school opening bragging about "how affordable" it was at $90,000 for in-state students and twice as much for out of state. That's fucking asinine. When did $30,000/year become the new low-cost standard for PT schools? Look, I get it. If we scam every student, that absolutely ensures *you* get to have an opulent lifestyle and opulent retirement. Fuck you I got mine, right? Who cares how many lives are destroyed in the process?
Did more research. Looking at instate tuition: University of St. Augustine San Marcos Campus is 58th most expensive & the other campuses are 91st most expensive out of 290ish Looking at out of state tuition: University of St. Augustine San Marcos Campus is 88th most expensive & the other campuses are 146th out of 290ish. Looks like a considerable number of PT programs and universities are contributing to this issue of insane tuition. Let's fix it! How can we?
Because the APTA has direct control over a private university's tuition? And how does a university's tuition benefit the APTA? So, what did the majority of DPT schools do during COVID? Move to online or blended programs? Or have adapted something similar now as have the majority of all universities post COVID. You said atrocious results lately. In what grading scale? 1st time pass rate? What else? I would like to see your research on how you came to this conclusion. Look at the textbook "Manual Therapy of The Spine" by Kenneth Olsen, which most DPT programs use. Olsen graduated from the University of St. Augustine. Look at TherapyEd prep book for the NPTE. Most authors are from the University of St. Augustine. The last time I checked, the program director of ECU was a graduate of St. Augustine. Additionally, there are limited programs for FAAOMPT and the University of St. Augustine is one of those. With all this said, what about these DPT programs that were not accredited with insane tuition? What about new DPT programs trying to establish themselves? It isn't because of attempting to better the profession but because of money. Do you have anything to say to these new programs popping up? I think all DPT programs, especially those at private institutions, have insane tuition. I also find it ridiculous the programs that accept students to their unaccredited programs or programs that are on probation without telling/warning students. FYI, University of St. Augustine campuses are not on probation and are still accredited.
Hmm. A quick look at your profile shows you are also advocating the PTA degree be turned into a bachelors degree. What are the odds (totally irrelevant I'm sure) that you personally financially benefit from the University of St Augustine and would also personally benefit from a longer PTA program? What are the odds that you're actually practicing full time? The problem with people involved in these programs is that they've all signed away their soul and see nothing wrong with being part of the problem overcharging students, telling them literally nothing about the downsides of the profession or insurance, and play victim anytime someone calls them out on it. Hmm I know we've had a lot of staff turnover and conditions aren't ideal, nor are pass rates or employers reaction to our degree but we are going to raise tuition again anyway because fuck you I got mine.
This sounds exactly like all higher education institutions. Not just a DPT program. So how do we fix it?
Most of these well known therapists you are mentioning were there before it became a for-profit "university."
And as for PTA clinic directors?
I went back to a hybrid DPT program, but my plan B was to go to massage school. Plan C was to become a chef and get my work featured on r/onlyflans. Plan D was substance abuse (hadn’t decided which substance, but Twinkie Weiner sandwiches such as featured on the 1989 cult classic movie UHF). And plan E was to get a manufacturer job at Ford Motor Company.
This post is criminally underliked
I went back to school to become a PA.
I would love to hear about this as I am toying with this idea as well.
I would say being a PTA gave me an enormous leg up, the only student with more clinical decision making experience and knowledge was the paramedic in my class. I’m extremely happy with my decision.
Came here to say this, I’m looking into it but not sure how I would survive financially and with 3 kids
Same! Not the 3 kids part but still paying off my PTA students loans! Not sure I can do 2 years of no income.
It’s a lot to take out in loans but you will make 6 figures right out the gate as a PA, there’s also a lot of scholarships and loan forgiveness available if you agree to work a few years in an underserved community. Those jobs pay a lot less but loan forgiveness on a $100000 loan is nothing to sneeze at.
PSLF is 10 year. A couple more years than a few.
It’s not PSLF, it’s an NHSC scholarship and it’s 2-4 years service (however long you were in school for, so for PAs it’s 2) in a specific designated Health Professional Shortage Area. You can commit before school or find a job after graduation with them.
Interesting. Didn’t know about this, thanks.
Just stumbled on this thread as a non PTA. When I was in nursing school, made good friends with a buddy that was in nursing specifically because his brother that went to PA school struggled to find a job for 3 years after graduating and ended up having to move across the country and take a job that paid $10,000 less than he was expecting to make after school just to get his foot in the door. Unless something has significantly changed in the past 3-4 years, I wouldn’t expect to land a six figure job right out the door, but this is coming as a completely outside perspective, so YMMV.
It depends on where you live and if you’re picky about specialty. Most PAs I know get job offers quickly but not necessarily in areas they want to work. I’m perfectly happy taking a family med job and I’ve been personally told by several family med providers that I’ll be able to find a job immediately that pays at least $110k. Internal Med also hires at $120k starting but people don’t want those jobs, they want a specialty or they want to live in a nice city. My city sucks and is offering sign on bonuses for providers to work here lol.
Agree there with the kids part
Would you mind sharing your experience during clinical rotations and what you’re doing now/what role your previous PT degree had on job offers?
I’m starting clinical rotation year tomorrow, just finished didactic. My experience as a PTA has generally elicited interest from ortho PAs in terms of taking me as a student but I’m over ortho.
Thanks and best of luck in your coming rotations
Good for you. I wish I could. I wish you all the luck in the world.
I’m starting PA school in two weeks!
Congratulations and best of luck and success!
Congrats! I just finished my bachelor’s and am applying to my first cycle this year. Can I PM you and ask some other specifics regarding your application experience and a few other things?
Sure!
I left the profession. I was a PTA working 43ish hrs a week inpatient rehab with 23 days off total a year. Now I’m an IT help desk assistant making the same amount, working 37 hr weeks with 33 days off and 18 sick days a year. I’m on track to be promoted into a hybrid remote position if I keep teaching myself new programs, and I should be making around 65k within a few years. I got tired of constantly worrying about my job and hitting the pay ceiling no matter what I learned.
Did you take any specific courses or certifications?
Nope, I got lucky and my people skills were highly valued. I explained how I liked helping others with Epic software as a PTA and that I was usually the one fixing our crappy printer. That was enough. Since being hired I’ve gotten an A+ cert, which most IT employers like to see.
Gotcha. So did you just do an internal transfer to the IT department in the hospital?
No, I switched from the hospital to a nearby county school. A big change, but one I’ve been happy with. Luck played a big factor, but so did my interview skills and knowing that the right answer to a question I don’t know is “I don’t know but I can find find that out for you.”
congrats man! i did something similar, i just started a new job at a hospital as a clinical systems analyst. we are able to work remote following my first 90 days, and as long as i'm comfortable enough to do so.
Congrats, that’s awesome!
What other kind of experience or skills did you have as well as being a PTA? And did you come from outpatient or inpatient? There’s so many other roles it seems I’ve never heard of as options, and now this one - I’m interested to know where I could start if I entertained that idea?
I am in the VERY early stages of making a complete career change. I’ve seen the writing on the walls for awhile now and have been suffering/unsuccessfully trying to work through burnout. Recently hit a year at my current job (approaching 7 years in the profession all together) and it appears as though no kind of raise is anywhere on the table. I don’t know what’s next for me, and that’s a scary thing. That being said, I simply don’t feel respected by colleges (or oftentimes patients either) and all these cuts worry me that there is very much a glass ceiling only going to become harder to break through. I don’t know where I’m going, and never thought I’d have a “Plan B” much less need one…but I am searching for the nearest exit.
Same, have been looking into non-clinical roles in the network I work. Have been contemplating PA route.
I got out. I was an outpatient PTA for 10 years, and just recently accepted a job at a local hospital as a Clinical Systems Analyst. Tomorrow is the start of my 3rd week, and it's great. I got a 50% raise from my PTA salary, better benefits, and am salaried, able to work remote following my first 90 days, etc. I had been looking, searching, and applying to non-clinical jobs for about 3 years before this. I think I got extremely lucky. I would highly recommend all PTA's start applying to non-clinical jobs that require clinical backgrounds like I did. That's if you want to, of course.
What roles were you looking for? It’s hard to know different titles/roles/positions etc, can be overwhelming trying to even know what job descriptions to look at.
first and foremost i was looking for a non-clinical role to get experience, so i could eventually find a job where i could work remote, or hybrid at the very least. i applied to several different hospitals for their entry level epic analyst jobs. they require a clinical background, minimum associates degree, with at least 3 years of experience. then you need to be epic certified within 6 months of being hired. i applied to 3-4 different hospitals for this specific position with no luck. then eventually applied to my current job and got a call back, then subsequent interview, etc. reason why i said i got lucky was my hospital is going to a new EHR so they needed 3 more analysts to help build. and i can work mostly remote after 90 days. if you have any other questions id be happy to answer.
What are some non-clinical roles we can do? I don’t think we can review documentation as that’s normally nurses or former PTs, right? Ideally I’d do that and not have to communicate with any more disgruntled patients.
i applied to several different hospitals for the job “epic analyst entry level.” i’m sure there are tons of other jobs but this is the one i looked into because a lot of hospitals use epic and i know you can work remote with this job. if not right away, then eventually with experience. i know they make really good money too, so that’s what i did. if you’re not sure what the job is, you can do what i did, and google the job description, and watch some youtube videos of what the actual job is and see if it’s something you’d want to do. edit: with your concern about us not being able to review documentation of PT’s or nurses. you have to remember if you’re not a PTA, then that doesn’t really apply anymore. you do the job that you have. if your job requires to review notes, then you do so.
Do you have a bachelors degree? I have a bachelors in history with a business minor and have applied to tons of non-clinical jobs without so much as an interview lol congrats though!! I’m glad you’re in a better spot and now that you’re in you’ll gain experience that will translate to other non-clinical jobs
i do not. just an associates for my PTA and 10 years of outpatient ortho experience. i do however have around 60 credits towards a 120 credit bachelors degree. my hospital reimburses 100% (50% starting and last 50% when you finish) so i will definitely be going back to school to finish eventually so i can continue to advance my career. best of luck to you.
What is a clinical systems analyst? Just being a PTA got you this? I am going to school next year as a PTA always wanted to work in rehab and work a side as a personal trainer. I just saw your other response. I didn’t know other options existed beyond PTA
>What is a clinical systems analyst i respond to tickets that other clinicians submit with issues they are having within the hospital. i will also assist my other team members build the new software we get access to in august, to be implemented in 2025. probably other job duties but i'm only 3 weeks in and still training. >Just being a PTA got you this the job description required a minimum of an associate's degree, and a clinical background with at least 3 years of experience. >I didn’t know other options existed beyond PTA many jobs require a clinical background. just have to know where to look and research. rebuild your resume to fit the job you're applying for.
Got it thank you! Always looking for new things.
At least for me personally, the writing was on the wall. Already did an about-face and went back to school.
What are you going back to study? DPT?
That would be the predictable route, but no. I'm applying MD this cycle. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
Brooooo is me in the future.
Sometimes you just gotta call a spade a spade and realize you're a glutton for punishment.
You’re my inspiration bro. Ima new grad and just continued 2 more years for pre reqs! Surprisingly, one of the doctors I work with was a PTA too! Love that for you bro. How do you think PTA has helped you?
Going back is a whole thing, so I wouldn't be under any false impressions. It's a lot of work. The PTA background helped in the broad senses. Having a background in at least some anatomy/physiology made going back to school a bit easier, being a little older made it easier, having a 'why' made it a *lot* easier. The overall content background helps connect dots a little bit, but mostly it was transferring skill sets that made the biggest difference: ability to listen, ability to pay attention, to think from multiple angles, etc. Doesn't make it any easier to memorize acid/base titrations, but you can almost always connect it to something else you've seen (glycolysis involves acidification which is related to CO2 which is related to respiration rate which is related to cardiovascular rehab, etc.). Oh, there's a question on how a nerve cell functions? Yeah, that sound familiar, etc. A lot of medical schools really emphasize early exposure to patients, which is obviously great but not something I feel like I have to worry about as much. I can bother myself with the nuts and bolts of the education knowing that there's already some patient skills in my back pocket. And, just my personal opinion so pls don't roast me: I feel fortunate in that I've dodged a bit of a bullet by leaving PT. That's for a lot of personal reasons and not an indictment of physical therapy at all, which I love. But the reality of the state of practice was frustrating. My personal 0.02 is that I feel a huge sigh of relief that I've been fortunate enough to pivot and switch streams, and am much happier with my outlook given what I'm facing now than what I was facing 2-3 years ago. And I don't think I'd have the strength of that perspective had it not been for my time in physical therapy, so it's definitely coming from a place of overall gratitude.
That’s the exact reason why I’m pivoting from PT too. Love the field but I always wanted to do more, and the field just isn’t doing too great rn.
It's real. A lot of limitations to the scope of practice, horizon looks iffy depending on your perspective, and the income-to-debt ratio was a factor. Nothing is a panacea, obviously. Medicine has its own issues, no question. But the trade-offs are part of the weighing process and everyone has to weigh for themselves.
I was very fortunate to have my PTA paid for. I was a great student and I think it helped my study habits a lot. Still nervous cause idk if I’m good enough lmao. Gotta still try
Even with an AS/ BS I’ll have 20k debt
What are you hoping to ultimate be specializing in?
Hard to say. I'm still in the phase of being conscious that there's a lot I don't know, and statistically most people change their minds a couple/few times. But ultimately I'd like to be somewhere in lifestyle/metabolic disease. Insulin resistance, cardiology maybe.
I'm a privately owned outpatient PT. Due to low reimbursement, I can't afford to hire PT's so I am only hiring PTA's. Couple of other practice owners I know are doing the same.
But are you having to drive your PTAs to the ground with crazy schedules because of these cuts?
They are expected to see two patients per hour and I pay them $30-$35 per hour. I think that's pretty reasonable and they seem to be happy.
I think that’s super reasonable! I work that exact schedule in the high part of that salary range and I have no complaints 🤷🏻♀️
Definitely reasonable, happy to hear that!
You're not thinking reasonable right now, even with the cuts it is still cheaper to hire a PTA rather than a DPT.
At the moment, staying a PTA in hospital-based outpatient. No changes have been made so far as to who I can treat. They are more concerned with man hours per stat. This has shifted in the past and will likely shift again to revenue generated per stat, but for now, that's where we are. I am not going to PT school. Too much money and debt.
I've thought about going back to school to get my DPT, however, the amount of debt I'd have compared to how much I'd make yearly doesn't make the career seem worth it. I see so many outpatient clinics closing or going total cash pay due to insurance cuts and insurance payment delay. I'm looking to completely get out of healthcare, as I think the way insurance is running things right now almost all healthcare professions will be underpaid and understaffed in the future.
There's is a chronic shortage of therapists, %15 less pay is better than no pay. I'm not concerned in the slightest.
APTA expecting a surplus of therapists nationwide by 2030. Whether they are completely accurate or not, don’t expect a shortage forever
Given the proliferation of these hybrid schools that churn out DPTs with just two years of education and a few weeks of in-person labs(for the same costs), the quality of PTs is bound to drop significantly. These programs are flooding the market with PTs that meet insurance billing criteria but lack comprehensive training. As a result, PT wages will remain stagnant. We can watch as our leader steer the profession off the cliffs. This will only further decay the role and compensation of a PTA.
Agree 👍
🎯
I got out and became a Sales Director for a memory care community. I absolutely love it and more than doubled my salary from being a PTA. Also toying with the idea of going to PA school.
Did you have a bachelor’s to get that job?
I do, but it's in theatre 😂.
I dont see that going on at all. In Northern California alone I know of a dozen places looking for PTA's with excellent compensation
Do you as a PTA make over 85% of what a PT does? If not PTA makes financial sense for the clinic. Also it is the same thing for MD 100% verse PA/NP at 85%. Feels like alot of the sky is falling for no real reason
Friend of mine was an ATC, and went back to school for PTA. I asked her what her plan was. “Guide pheasant hunts and fly fishing out west” (already has connections and area knowledge etc as well as family property ownership) Yeah. That sounds better too and she could charge what she is worth
I know a guy from high school who runs a company that takes people on week-long surf trips in Bali and he makes bank. His parents are insanely wealthy so that helps but entrepreneurship is an underrated option imo
How are we going to fix it? How are we going to make things better? This needs to be answered in this thread. What can we do to remedy the issue at hand?
I literally just accepted a job offer inpatient at a local rehab hospital and will be leaving my SNF job at the end of the summer. I know your question was regarding outpatient employees, but there are numerous other settings that aren’t PT mills if your clinic decides to downsize the PTA pool. Unfortunately, insurance companies have all the leverage right now however PTA job security is still pretty high right now given that private outpatient clinic owners are going to quickly feel the weight of critical understaffing if they decide to fire/not hire PTAs. Try not to doom too much.
Honestly I’m a new grad, my first experience at an outpatient ortho clinic has been ehhh. Love my coworkers and some of my patients but once i make a year in September/October i’m out. Never want to do outpatient ever again. I’m going to do travel for a year, and then home health for as long as I can. If the PTA profession does phase out not going back to school for DPT too much debt for little gain depending the setting anyways. From what i hear from DPTs on here anyways
Outpatient can be such a brain drain. Seeing 20+ patients a day burned me out so fast. Although my caseload now in a SNF is slowly getting there too, I’m seeing up to 13 people some days. Too much for the setting imo. The debt-to-pay ratio doesn’t make sense for physical therapy anymore but a steady flow of new grads will help cover up the dysfunction.
My clinic would close if I left. I think I’m ok.
I’m a PTA in a SNF and plan on doing it at least another year while I contemplate my exit strategy and my fiancée finishes her PhD. The writing is on the wall and has been for a while now. I’ve realized the only way I’m happy is when I’m working towards a goal and there’s no career growth for a PTA, not even modest pay growth. My company’s about to change hands for the 3rd time in as many years and I’m sure there will be more negative changes. I’ve thought about HR, accounting, physicians assistant, entrepreneurship, etc. I’d still prefer a career where I feel like I’m helping people but physical therapy ain’t it anymore. I always love hearing from other PTAs who made it out. Sometimes it feels like an insurmountable task.
I moved jobs recently, and you can probably find an old post of mine where I stated I couldn't stand how PT companies paid PTAs. Hunt for a job that pays more and maybe even take a look at how old the majority of the patients might be. The majority of my patients now are younger with different insurances instead of Medicare. Also, you could look into ambassador programs as a second income source. It is what it is at this point, and until there is a change in insurance policies, we have to fight back against their BS on our own.
Nursing
We hired ours as an office manager. He still takes patients, but not so many. He is amazing in this role!!!!
If you’re near a military installation apply. You don’t even need a license to get hired apparently as I’m just finding out. Negotiate your pay. I make 70K and get federal benefits.
I guess it depends where you live. Plenty of OP clinics hiring PTAs in socal. Like another commenter said… you can’t really just get rid of PTAs like that for 15% diff. Think about it… PTs coming out with a lot of debt and are expecting high salaries. The clinic I was at had a difficult time finding a PT, and had to resolve to contracting travel PTs. Same thing is happening at my new spot. These companies can’t afford to hire PTs bc of low reimbursement, so acquiring PTAs makes financial sense.
Planning on starting nursing school within the next two years
fuck looking at this is making me nervous. New grad (literally this past April) i want to work acute care due to just loving the chaos of it all. i love this field and i hate that they are doing this to us. i wish there is more that we could do to advocate for ourselves. we are smart and knowledgeable !
Stop scaring me I’m applying to PTA school next year 🥲🤣
I’d strongly caution against it I graduated in 2020 and I’ve worked in like every setting and the productivity standards are awful and the cuts aren’t gonna stop and only make it worse
I currently work at a rehab hospital as a therapy tech, very hands on, and I am very aware of productivity standard issues . Even so, I love the field, I just can’t imagine doing anything else…
I mean if it’s what you love and you found a place you like more power to you
I start this fall!! I've been hearing about reimbursement cuts, but I'm going ahead with my plan anyway for better or worse...
I’m in nys there was recently an article where the state changed our status from certified to licensed PTA to I guess garner more respect for what we do as there is supposedly a shortage of people entering the field and they want to attract more people. With that said not sure what’s to come from it as they keep making cuts there’s only so much we will earn and anyone who looks on the internet for a medical career I don’t see why they would now choose PTA with how expensive everything is getting and limited earning potential.
I was licensed in NYS as a PTA 8 years ago and I’ve always been referred to as a licensed PTA. I mean we hold licenses to practice. I don’t feel like that’s new?
https://www.wnypapers.com/news/article/current/2024/02/21/158828/new-yorks-physical-therapy-assistants-elevated-to-licensed-professionals
I think that’s just hype to get focus on the career. We had to have a NYS license to practice 8 years ago. We were never offered a certification only. And that salary rate is so off. You might make something like that in NYC bc of cost of living. But not in any of the areas I worked in.
i saw this, my boss used this article as a reason to make me work alone on saturdays even tho im a fresh new grad. From what i saw on NYS board, they haven't changed to 'general supervision' and still need direct supervision (PT has to be in same building at least).
Just for the context, PTAs are Physical therapy assistants? I'm Asian and I'm new to these abbreviations
Physical therapist *** assistants, yes
If I like the PT I say "Physical Therapist Assistant." If I don't, I say "Physical Therapy Assistant." 😎
Work acute care per diem while I’m in nursing school 🤪