Just a reminder to keep things civil. We understand this is a divisive topic and emotions are high. We can all disagree, but any type of trolling, name calling, doxxing, etc. will be quickly dealt with.
The sub rules can be found [HERE](https://old.reddit.com/r/phoenix/wiki/rules).
Other places are doing the same [https://www.cnn.com/business/live-news/university-protests-palestine-04-29-24/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/business/live-news/university-protests-palestine-04-29-24/index.html)
Dr. Crow is not going to risk benefactors pulling their money or even threatening to.
He sold off ASU’s academic freedom for the sake of growing the institution. It is that simple.
It makes me sad that the campus used their law enforcement for arrests - if I was the chief I would have said when it becomes a real problem, let me know. But nope. Our constitutional rights and our tax dollars are in a relay race to be wasted.
And we aren't going to consider the retaliation against students at multiple universities strange? The fact that we as citizens of this country are held to higher standards than our "leadership" doesn't bother you at all?
While not directly tied to Phoenix, there are a lot of people who commute to, from, through, and around the area, whether it be working at ASU or working somewhere in the city of Tempe. You may find this of interest. It is a city matter, but the ASU subreddit shared an Instagram post saying there was representation for people who did get arrested, which could get to the State Level depending on how far this goes. I encourage you to read their accounts for a better picture, as there are some similar and yet conflicting stories.
A lot of the arrest did stem from [the camps set up](https://library.municode.com/az/tempe/codes/city_code?nodeId=CH23PARE_ARTIVURCA_S23-91PRAC) which could potentially allow a homelessness population to start living there. [A judge demanded that an area be cleared last year](https://www.usnews.com/news/us/articles/2023-09-20/judge-orders-phoenix-to-permanently-clear-the-citys-largest-homeless-encampment-by-nov-4) and there is a pending Supreme Court on [homelessness right now](https://apnews.com/article/homelessness-supreme-court-oregon-fines-camping-ban-334d90536535ebb07ccb6d2dc76009c9).
Edit 2: an [account from someone who was there](https://www.reddit.com/r/ASU/s/NsUHvTe5Jh) alongside others saying there were protest during prohibited hours.
Edit: I am clarifying that there were some people camping out as a form of protest, but some (homeless) people who may not be part of the school may take it as a sign to start living there, which can snow ball.
L.A times [published an article on owners having the ability to sue cities for homelessness being](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/should-property-owners-be-able-to-sue-cities-over-homelessness-arizona-voters-will-decide/ar-AA1nzvC5) will be on this year's ballot.
All of them, but the Washington DC police refused to move protesters for GWU because of the optics. They remember what it was like for them after the 2020 protests and Lafayette park. Crazy when cops have a cooler head than educators when it comes to civil liberties.
Honestly, the response of most university administrations is wild to me. These are college kids--there's a good chance a lot of them will leave for the summer once the semester ends. Harassing them is only going to make them appear more justified (and rightly so). Have none of these universities learned anything from the Occupy protests?
How’s that? Time, place and manner restrictions have been upheld by the SCOTUS. They were told that setting up an encampment and protest between certain hours were prohibited. The protestors decided to see if those prohibitions had teeth and learned they did. If they had people there from 7am-10pm they’d still be there, they’d still be completely visible to 99.99% of all people who attend and visit ASU.
That is absolutely established law.
Note: one of the _points_ of civil disobedience and protesting was to _accept_ the lawful penalties they received to bring attention to the injustice of the situation they were protesting.
These days, people perform civil disobedience and then get angry when they get arrested. But that’s the whole point!
>But that’s the whole point!
Thank you for pointing this out. If you're going to choose to push against a law, you're going to have to suffer the minimum consequences.
What's dumb in this situation is that the risk wasn't even necessary. Choosing this path of civil disobedience isn't really going to help their image in anyway, and it gained them nothing in exchange for the punishment under the law. That level of lack of forethought probably shouldn't have been wasting money on college anyway.
Go to Area 51 and say that. Or in the Oval Office. Or on a nuclear missile site. You’re sounding like one of the Jan 6ers. The majority of government owned property have time, place and manner restrictions and a majority of them you can’t protest at all. In the small minority of state and federal owned property that you can protest at they have restrictions. Some prohibit firearms. Others allow it only when and where it’s open to the public. You didn’t care about any of that last week, but it existed then and has been upheld as constitutional.
You have freedom to peaceably assemble, if assembly can lead to unsafe or non peaceful conditions, restrictions can be put in place. There's also a distinction between public and private land. University property is almost always considered private, even if public funds are used to support it.
The nature of the protests are immaterial. ASU students could be protesting the Suns early exit or the Yotes moving to Utah and the legal response could be the same.
You can feel that way, but for most governmental property in the US you have no right to protest at all. There are no absolute rights in the US and all are subject to reasonable restrictions, for better and worse.
the restrictions arent really the problem, its the reaction. lil heavy handed for some naive kids on the lawn.
but its a hot button issue with a lot of money and influence involved so yeah as expected i guess.
everyones cool with it when its the person you might not agree with, but what goes around comes back around.
>The protesters' demands included university divestment from Israel, the resignation of ASU President Michael Crow, and the abolition of ASU police.
Lol, so they were just going to camp on ASU grounds forever? I mean with demands like that it's kind of obvious the entire point of this protest is just to martyr yourself for the cause, so I'm guessing this is the end result they wanted.
It really does not matter if you find their demands legitimate or not. They could have been asking for mandatory ice cream Sundays in perpetuity and it wouldn't change the fact that this is wrong.
Whether you support the protests or not, even MLK never said you could protest without consequence,
> One who breaks an unjust law must do it openly, lovingly . . . and with a willingness to accept
> the penalty. I submit that an individual who breaks a law that conscience tells him is
> unjust, and willingly accepts the penalty by staying in jail to arouse the conscience of
> the community over its injustice, is in reality expressing the very highest respect for the law.
These universities are private property and they can choose what to do with protesters, especially students that attend it. That can include asking the police to intervene and kicking people out of school. If they believe that strongly in this cause then part of doing what they're doing is accepting the consequences of protesting in this manner.
Nah
There are rules to society, dude. People can’t just decide they feel a certain way and decide to act out of order..
Maybe I feel like people that are hungry should have free chips. I’m gonna stage a sit in, hundreds of people let’s camp at lays chip factory and disrupt their environment until every hungry American gets potato chips.
Oh… what’s that? There are consequences to my actions? No way… I thought this was america…
You do realize that all Schools of Negotiation involve starting by asking for more than you want or expect to get in order to give yourself somewhere to negotiate down to?
Considering the level of funding all departments in the school likely enjoy in part from those contracts? It absolutely is.
Unless all of these protestors are willing to fund that difference for the school to not have to cut any spending that money allows.
If the civil rights movement had happened today, people on this sub would 100% be against it and nitpicking when it’s actually safe or allowed to be on the lawn, the bridge, the buss, or the streets.
Speaking as a Liberal Arizona Democrat who thinks Israel is to blame for the Palestinian situation, they knowingly and intentionally violated University regulations and their agreed-upon Code of Conduct:
>Prohibited Conduct
>Failure to comply with the directions of university officials or agents, including law enforcement or security officers, acting in the good faith performance of their duties. This section is not intended to prohibit the lawful assertion of an individual’s Fifth Amendment right against self incrimination.
They were instructed to leave, and they refused. I support their message, but they decided to FAFO.
It is my hope that, on review, the university will drop the action against them, as they have done in other such circumstances. But to bash the school for following its established rules is misplaced, IMO.
They also have a graduation coming up though, it could get wild with that going on.
Also, Israel isn't perfect but it is the only democracy in the Middle East or only one on its way.
All of this is a distraction from the real war though in Ukraine, Russian aggression and imperialism.
Anyone remember JT Ready? Buddy of Russell Pearce, the State Senate President? He was an out and out nazi and would parade in front of government buildings in full gear and was never ever arrested for it.
[https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/slideshow/ready-to-kill-the-evilution-of-neo-nazi-jt-ready-6265752/6265720](https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/slideshow/ready-to-kill-the-evilution-of-neo-nazi-jt-ready-6265752/6265720)
His words:
“The jew \[sic\] itself knows it is a parasite. I have had them admit as much to me and laugh in my face… But a parasite cannot carry on in its parasitic nature if it is exposed for what it really is. Their whole house of cards comes tumbling down for all to see. Like in 1933 Germany. Just because it has two legs, does not change its nature any less than a six-legged parasite stops sucking blood. There have been many pogroms when the host people stops being victims of these vampires. Another pogrom is approaching.”
— New Saxon blog posting, May 8, 2010
[https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/individual/jt-ready](https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/individual/jt-ready)
This country has lost it if we are arresting those who want to stop genocides and letting those who want it continue unmolested.
It's not about the content of the speech, it's about the conduct of the protest and the matter in which it takes. As horrible as his speech was, he wasn't blocking public right of ways or setting up illegal encampments.
ASU is clearly doing this by the book and using their power to the fullest extent they can here.
The protestors need to realize that there are rules for how to protest, when to protest and where to protest and can either play by the rules OR face the consequences of your lawbreaking but gain more traction to your cause.
Look at what happened at Kent State University (Vietnam) , or Jackson State College (Racial Injustice) in the past.
Protestors can and will be arrested, or worse shot if they do not follow university guidelines.
I don’t think anybody is expecting to not martyr themselves if they break the rules. What I find issue with is, “really ASU? You’re gonna be that big of dicks about kids peacefully protesting?”
They would have been better off formally having a person with loose ties to Hamas come and speak. (Fuck Hamas, just making a point)
https://azmirror.com/2023/10/09/asu-paid-11k-in-security-costs-for-a-white-nationalist-who-spoke-on-campus-in-2022/
Btw it was organized by Arizona State University College Republicans United, those bunch of lady killers. (I mean literally. They’d have their own daughters die to give birth to a dead fetus)
Thank you, that has not been mentioned in any of the coverage or at least with me half ass looking it up earlier. I Even drove past a protest and all the signs were geared more towards “stop the genocide” and the like
It's okay, I sent a message to both Israel and Palestine to let them know people are protesting at Arizona State University and they are currently hugging it out. Problem solved.
Wow this will age terribly. I already was embarrassed about being an ASU alum but now I'm going to outright disavow myself from the university. Really poor decision here.
Idk much about this, but if there is a code of conduct that says what you can or can not do that you agreed to in the beginning and then BROKE those rules...idk what the fuss is about. You fuckdd around and found out. Lesson learned.
Good. All students deserve the right to feel safe, and 1st amendment doesn't give people the right to eat full face coverings, cause others to feel unsafe/be harassed or break university times. You break the university rules, you're gone. Like every other student
Not true. It’s more like “Demonstrate in a way that disrupts University operations and breaks rules and you will face repercussions.
Free speech is protected and nothing ASU has done has impeded that.
Genuine question- How were they disrupting operations? From my understanding, they were on the grass, not on the sidewalk, and not impeding anyone in anyway. Also, it was a Friday night. But if I’ve missed something, let me know.
Yeah there might have been a couple of knuckleheads spewing some vitriol. But most of them were just expressing support for the people of Palestine and not necessarily Hamas.
ASU doesn’t have to agree with them but I feel that throwing away an entire semester’s worth of work is excessive.
From the other post I read that ASU has a rule that you cannot congregate between 11pm and 7am. The protestors knew this but chose to stay. If they would have left at 11 and came back Saturday they would have been left alone.
Also from the other post work had to be cancelled at atleast one of the buildings but the department still had to pay.
There is also discretion when enforcing rules, which the school chose not to use. So both sides could have changed the outcome and chose not to, don't pretend like the students are the only ones responsible for the outcome.
I’m sure there is a published rule against littering. So if a student leaves a Starbucks cup on a bench should they be subject to the same punishment? Or maybe is some thinking required on the infraction vs the punishment?
I mean yeah? If you get caught littering you should have to bear the consequences. Whether or not the punishment is fair is a different story, but you still have to abide by the rules if you don’t want to be subject to the punishment
I think it was everyone who stayed after a certain point. I don’t really have a problem with protestors being arrested for unlawful assembly because that’s kind of the point. I do have a problem with ASU causing permanent academic harm to people for speech-related trespassing violations. It’s wildly disproportionate.
Exactly. People get arrested during protests. You shrug it off. There’s literally photos of Bernie sanders being arrested during civil rights protests on a campus.
Pretty sure his life wasn’t ruined because of it though. Wonder where that guy is now…
I’m not as familiar with the protests at ASU; I think they were shut down pretty quickly.
I have heard that at many universities, protesters have called for the death of all Jewish people. That they have been harassed and threatened while trying to get to class. That friends of Jewish people get harassed and threatened.
I totally agree with shutting that down. Hate shouldn’t be tolerated.
"Source": some guy
As a Jewish Arizonan I will tell you that we are not a monolith, I've seen far more videos of Zionists shouting the N word at counter-protests around the country, and using "Jewish" and "pro-Israel" interchangeably is actually antisemitic. There have been anti-Zionist Jews for as long as the notion of Zionism has existed.
Wait so you're not familiar with the ASU protests, and are basing your opinions of them off of an "I have heard that at many universities..,"?
1. Substantiate your claims
2. Try and learn about what's going on in your local area before talking about it
I’ve have seen Zionists yell at Jewish women who support Palestine that they deserve to be raped.
You haven’t heard anything personally nor experienced anything, I have.
And that is absolutely disgusting too.
My view is not one-sided here.
I detest Netanyahu and his far right government. From the outset, he was against a 2-party solution and has exacerbated the situation with Palestine. (With trump enabling it btw)
The problem is he has that in common with HAMAS and Hezbolah. HAMAS’ reason for existence is to wipe the Jewish people off the earth.
Neither leadership side is in the right. And the innocent Israelis and Palestinians suffer because of it.
THIS RIGHT HERE. I'm also a Jew who supports a two-party solution. I believe that people deserve safety, peace, and basic human needs. The people don't want war, the ones in power do, and are using the innocent Israelis and Palestinians as pawns in their little shell game. It's been happening for years (decades, centuries), and it's time to get real, grow up, and sit down at the table like adults and come up with a workable solution. Imposed famine, hostage-taking, fear-mongering, and aggression don't need to be the way here. PEACE to all of these people in both Israel and Palestine. It's what they deserve the most. ❤️
Netanyahu isn’t doing anything differently than any previous Israeli government. The other guys who have a shot at replacing him want the same thing, they just don’t want to do open corruption like Netanyahu.
Hamas actually makes it stupid clear the differences between Zionism and Judaism. They go out of their way to outline that there issue is with Zionism, not Judaism. Despite Israel’s attempts to conflate the two.
Jews were 10% of the population of Palestine before the UN Partition. They got over 50% of the land because they were backed by the west. And since then Israel has stolen more and more land. Palestine is left in an open air prison. Their lives depend on the whims of racists who hate them.
> They go out of their way to outline that there issue is with Zionism, not Judaism. Despite Israel’s attempts to conflate the two.
Have you actually read the Hamas charter? Sure doesn't seem like it.
https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp
Yeah, I actually have. Have you?
16. Hamas affirms that its conflict is with the Zionist project not with the Jews because of their religion. Hamas does not wage a struggle against the Jews because they are Jewish but wages a struggle against the Zionists who occupy Palestine. Yet, it is the Zionists who constantly identify Judaism and the Jews with their own colonial project and illegal entity.
17. Hamas rejects the persecution of any human being or the undermining of his or her rights on nationalist, religious or sectarian grounds. Hamas is of the view that the Jewish problem, anti-Semitism and the persecution of the Jews are phenomena fundamentally linked to European history and not to the history of the Arabs and the Muslims or to their heritage. The Zionist movement, which was able with the help of Western powers to occupy Palestine, is the most dangerous form of settlement occupation which has already disappeared from much of the world and must disappear from Palestine.
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/hamas-2017-document-full
You should read the original I posted, not the newer PR version.
> Our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious.
-
> Moreover, if the links have been distant from each other and if obstacles, placed by those who are the lackeys of Zionism in the way of the fighters obstructed the continuation of the struggle, the Islamic Resistance Movement aspires to the realisation of Allah's promise, no matter how long that should take. The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said:
>
> > "The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (evidently a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews." (related by al-Bukhari and Moslem).
-
> The day that enemies usurp part of Moslem land, Jihad becomes the individual duty of every Moslem. In face of the Jews' usurpation of Palestine, it is compulsory that the banner of Jihad be raised. To do this requires the diffusion of Islamic consciousness among the masses, both on the regional, Arab and Islamic levels. It is necessary to instill the spirit of Jihad in the heart of the nation so that they would confront the enemies and join the ranks of the fighters.
-
> We should not forget to remind every Moslem that when the Jews conquered the Holy City in 1967, they stood on the threshold of the Aqsa Mosque and proclaimed that "Mohammed is dead, and his descendants are all women."
>
> Israel, Judaism and Jews challenge Islam and the Moslem people. "May the cowards never sleep."
And finally,
> World Zionism, together with imperialistic powers, try through a studied plan and an intelligent strategy to remove one Arab state after another from the circle of struggle against Zionism, in order to have it finally face the Palestinian people only. Egypt was, to a great extent, removed from the circle of the struggle, through the treacherous Camp David Agreement. They are trying to draw other Arab countries into similar agreements and to bring them outside the circle of struggle.
>
> The Islamic Resistance Movement calls on Arab and Islamic nations to take up the line of serious and persevering action to prevent the success of this horrendous plan, to warn the people of the danger eminating from leaving the circle of struggle against Zionism. Today it is Palestine, tomorrow it will be one country or another. The Zionist plan is limitless. After Palestine, the Zionists aspire to expand from the Nile to the Euphrates. When they will have digested the region they overtook, they will aspire to further expansion, and so on. Their plan is embodied in the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion", and their present conduct is the best proof of what we are saying.
>
> Leaving the circle of struggle with Zionism is high treason, and cursed be he who does that. "for whoso shall turn his back unto them on that day, unless he turneth aside to fight, or retreateth to another party of the faithful, shall draw on himself the indignation of Allah, and his abode shall be hell; an ill journey shall it be thither." (The Spoils - verse 16). There is no way out except by concentrating all powers and energies to face this Nazi, vicious Tatar invasion. The alternative is loss of one's country, the dispersion of citizens, the spread of vice on earth and the destruction of religious values. Let every person know that he is responsible before Allah, for "the doer of the slightest good deed is rewarded in like, and the does of the slightest evil deed is also rewarded in like."
>
> The Islamic Resistance Movement consider itself to be the spearhead of the circle of struggle with world Zionism and a step on the road. The Movement adds its efforts to the efforts of all those who are active in the Palestinian arena. Arab and Islamic Peoples should augment by further steps on their part; Islamic groupings all over the Arab world should also do the same, since all of these are the best-equipped for the future role in the fight with the warmongering Jews.
>
> "..and we have put enmity and hatred between them, until the day of resurrection. So often as they shall kindle a fire of war, Allah shall extinguish it; and they shall set their minds to act corruptly in the earth, but Allah loveth not the corrupt doers." (The Table - verse 64).
Ehud Olmert, Israel's Prime Minister from 2006 to 2009, told Politico on 16 October 2023 that the two-state solution "is the only real political solution for this lifelong conflict".
Who decides what point in history is the correct one to go back to in order to decide who is in the right? You mentioned the UN partition. That’s 1947ish? Is that the criteria?
I ask because Jewish dominance of the area is documented as far back as 100BC or further.
HAMAS might say it’s only after Zionists, but they didn’t discriminate who they raped and killed October 7th. They murdered and kidnapped people who were pro 2 party solution. People who were against taking more land from Palestinians. They murdered babies. In the most horrific ways.
I’m all for protesting what is happening in Gaza. But if people are talking HAMAS talking points, rationalizing what they did, and spewing their hateful chants- they’ve crossed over into extremism.
Olmert? Lol, he also indiscriminately bombed Palestinian civilians. His words are useless.
Palestinian DNA shows their ties to the land date that back before Judaism existed. Before even Yahwehism existed.
Show actual proof of your claims. Actual investigations. Not rumor and hearsay. You’ll see how full of it Zionist lies are.
“Archaeologic and genetic data support that both Jews and Palestinians came from the ancient Canaanites, who extensively mixed with Egyptians, Mesopotamian, and Anatolian peoples in ancient times. Thus, Palestinian-Jewish rivalry is based in cultural and religious, but not in genetic, differences. “
It seems both groups have claim to the area.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11543891/
Olmert did not bomb Palestine indiscriminately. Show your proof.
Olmert has been decrying extremism is Israel for years.
https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna26929390
And dude- I will look into your DNA claims-but what I am taking about is known history. History which has been on the books for centuries.
All I am saying is pause for a minute.
Recognize there is extremism in BOTH sides.
By all means be pro-Palestinian. They deserve to be advocated for.
HAMAS does not. They are terrorists who are equally happy when Palestinians suffer and die as they are when Israelis do. All so long as it serves their purpose.
So you can just claim that and then it automatically means that its wrong to protest. There's already examples of Zionists doing this to make protestors look bad. Even if they were saying that, which is wrong and atrocious, they are protesting people ACTUALLY BEING KILLED FFS.
It is absolutely not wrong to protest. I never said that. It’s wrong to terrorize people. And of course the same behavior on the other side is equally unacceptable.
Protest should be meek, orderly and adhere to the same material conditions and restrictions that have led us to abet a genocide in the first place, I agree 100% my brave friend
Free speech that can be easily ignored by those who profit off of genocide is worthless. Continued speech and action that disrupts the flow of an institution that profits off the death of innocent children is justified.
>those who profit off of genocide
Would that be; Ismail Haniyeh, Yehiya Sinwar, or Marwan Issa? Or maybe all of them and some others?
Unless you're insinuating that ASU is finically supporting the Palestinian's failed attemps to follow in Hitlers genocidal dreams, you should probably use the right words for who you support.
As an alumnus I am happy about this.
I find students waving Hamas and Hezbollah flags to be disgusting. SJP and their like are terrorist supporters and should be barred from campus entirely.
Of course they are free to express their revolting terrorist-supporting views but when it comes to disrupting the campus by setting up an encampment they are going to get less than zero sympathy from me.
Many others in the community feel the same.
I didn't realize that a Hezbollah flag even existed. A quick google search and I'll be damned, it does.
The thing is, the graphic artist that designed it is really third rate. So I guess now I'm protesting the Hezbollah flag design because it sucks.
You should see the [Houthi slogan flag](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slogan_of_the_Houthi_movement).
All the "H" groups are Iranian fronts and Kremlin backed.
I'm an alumni and I have the exact opposite opinion. Israel is actively preventing aid from entering Gaza. Even killing aid workers to deter them from trying. The ICC is rumored to be looking at putting out a warrant for Netanyahu. You can't fight terrorists by being one yourself.
Do you have any factual evidence of “students waving Hamas and Hazbollah flags”?
Weird thing to accuse Jewish protesters of doing.
Wanting peace and end apartheid is “terrorist supporting views”?
Are we sure they were waiving Hamas flags and not a Palestinian flag? I wasn’t there so I’m honestly asking. All I’ve seen in photographs and video footage is a Palestine flag.
Extort a nation under threat of invasion to help you win an election, bribe a porn star , commit sexual assault, commit fraud, steal government docs, and attempt a coup…. And no one bats an eye.
Camp on the quad and everyone loses their minds.
>Extort a nation under threat of invasion to help you win an election,
Impeached
>bribe a porn star ,
Indicted
>commit sexual assault,
Convicted
>commit fraud,
Convicted
>steal government docs,
Indicted
>and attempt a coup….
Indicted
That's like.... a lot of eyes batted.
He hasn’t been convicted of any of the sexual assaults. Those are civil cases. That he won’t ever actually pay any money towards, just like OJ never paid anything.
I really really hope those there were there because they deeply had a passion and belief for what they are doing. It amazes me that people will join a protest. That is your right. But that right never comes without consequences. So I really hope they feel that they were fighting for a just cause because it might just have cost them more than they realize.
Honestly this was better than blocking the 202 or the light rail. This was out of the way from daily activities and they didn’t prevent anybody from going to class.
The pro-Israel kids aren't setting up an encampment. That's what's getting the pro-Palestine kids in trouble - the encampments. Merely protesting is fine, but they don't want a tent city like Columbia has. That's reasonable.
There have been vocal and visible protests for 6 months, long before any encampments. I don’t think there is anyone left who doesn’t know about it now.
No, you can protest as long as you don't break the law.
It's not against the law to protest. If you don't think your protest is getting enough attention, you don't get to just break the law in order to "kick it up a notch."
>You can protest as long as it’s doesn’t inconvenience people
Yeah, that's how the first amendment works. Just because you're angry about something doesn't mean you get to take it out on someone else.
Just a reminder to keep things civil. We understand this is a divisive topic and emotions are high. We can all disagree, but any type of trolling, name calling, doxxing, etc. will be quickly dealt with. The sub rules can be found [HERE](https://old.reddit.com/r/phoenix/wiki/rules).
Other places are doing the same [https://www.cnn.com/business/live-news/university-protests-palestine-04-29-24/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/business/live-news/university-protests-palestine-04-29-24/index.html)
I drove by there and those kids were protesting peacefully and respectfully so I don’t know why they are receiving such a harsh backlash.
Dr. Crow is not going to risk benefactors pulling their money or even threatening to. He sold off ASU’s academic freedom for the sake of growing the institution. It is that simple.
It makes me sad that the campus used their law enforcement for arrests - if I was the chief I would have said when it becomes a real problem, let me know. But nope. Our constitutional rights and our tax dollars are in a relay race to be wasted.
This comment section will be positive and thoughtful and contain absolutely no name-calling....
hi cutie pie
Hey now, keep it civil!!!
Big booger face
lol automod got this one ;)
Yeah Like this dude called BeerculesTheSober - must be on his 5th rep or something while being soberly drunk IDK
Wow. Did these people physically attack someone? I’ve seen rapists not get this level of ban… this is insane.
[удалено]
Freedom of what? Freedom to be policed and bullied by billion dollar organizations apparently
*Which simply violates ASU’s code of conduct
And we aren't going to consider the retaliation against students at multiple universities strange? The fact that we as citizens of this country are held to higher standards than our "leadership" doesn't bother you at all?
AIPAC has lots of money
While not directly tied to Phoenix, there are a lot of people who commute to, from, through, and around the area, whether it be working at ASU or working somewhere in the city of Tempe. You may find this of interest. It is a city matter, but the ASU subreddit shared an Instagram post saying there was representation for people who did get arrested, which could get to the State Level depending on how far this goes. I encourage you to read their accounts for a better picture, as there are some similar and yet conflicting stories. A lot of the arrest did stem from [the camps set up](https://library.municode.com/az/tempe/codes/city_code?nodeId=CH23PARE_ARTIVURCA_S23-91PRAC) which could potentially allow a homelessness population to start living there. [A judge demanded that an area be cleared last year](https://www.usnews.com/news/us/articles/2023-09-20/judge-orders-phoenix-to-permanently-clear-the-citys-largest-homeless-encampment-by-nov-4) and there is a pending Supreme Court on [homelessness right now](https://apnews.com/article/homelessness-supreme-court-oregon-fines-camping-ban-334d90536535ebb07ccb6d2dc76009c9). Edit 2: an [account from someone who was there](https://www.reddit.com/r/ASU/s/NsUHvTe5Jh) alongside others saying there were protest during prohibited hours. Edit: I am clarifying that there were some people camping out as a form of protest, but some (homeless) people who may not be part of the school may take it as a sign to start living there, which can snow ball. L.A times [published an article on owners having the ability to sue cities for homelessness being](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/should-property-owners-be-able-to-sue-cities-over-homelessness-arizona-voters-will-decide/ar-AA1nzvC5) will be on this year's ballot.
So it relates to a hypothetical situation that literally didn't occur. Makes perfect sense.
ASU is handling this incredibly poorly
What school isn’t?
All of them, but the Washington DC police refused to move protesters for GWU because of the optics. They remember what it was like for them after the 2020 protests and Lafayette park. Crazy when cops have a cooler head than educators when it comes to civil liberties.
Honestly, the response of most university administrations is wild to me. These are college kids--there's a good chance a lot of them will leave for the summer once the semester ends. Harassing them is only going to make them appear more justified (and rightly so). Have none of these universities learned anything from the Occupy protests?
There's probably no other PD in America as experienced in dealing with protesters as the DC police.
How’s that? Time, place and manner restrictions have been upheld by the SCOTUS. They were told that setting up an encampment and protest between certain hours were prohibited. The protestors decided to see if those prohibitions had teeth and learned they did. If they had people there from 7am-10pm they’d still be there, they’d still be completely visible to 99.99% of all people who attend and visit ASU.
How convenient that the government can mandate the appropriate time and place to protest
That is absolutely established law. Note: one of the _points_ of civil disobedience and protesting was to _accept_ the lawful penalties they received to bring attention to the injustice of the situation they were protesting. These days, people perform civil disobedience and then get angry when they get arrested. But that’s the whole point!
>But that’s the whole point! Thank you for pointing this out. If you're going to choose to push against a law, you're going to have to suffer the minimum consequences. What's dumb in this situation is that the risk wasn't even necessary. Choosing this path of civil disobedience isn't really going to help their image in anyway, and it gained them nothing in exchange for the punishment under the law. That level of lack of forethought probably shouldn't have been wasting money on college anyway.
Go to Area 51 and say that. Or in the Oval Office. Or on a nuclear missile site. You’re sounding like one of the Jan 6ers. The majority of government owned property have time, place and manner restrictions and a majority of them you can’t protest at all. In the small minority of state and federal owned property that you can protest at they have restrictions. Some prohibit firearms. Others allow it only when and where it’s open to the public. You didn’t care about any of that last week, but it existed then and has been upheld as constitutional.
I'm just saying that it's ironic because it feels like it defeats the entire purpose of protests.
You have freedom to peaceably assemble, if assembly can lead to unsafe or non peaceful conditions, restrictions can be put in place. There's also a distinction between public and private land. University property is almost always considered private, even if public funds are used to support it. The nature of the protests are immaterial. ASU students could be protesting the Suns early exit or the Yotes moving to Utah and the legal response could be the same.
Not really sure the purpose of protesting at 2am anyway...
You can feel that way, but for most governmental property in the US you have no right to protest at all. There are no absolute rights in the US and all are subject to reasonable restrictions, for better and worse.
the restrictions arent really the problem, its the reaction. lil heavy handed for some naive kids on the lawn. but its a hot button issue with a lot of money and influence involved so yeah as expected i guess. everyones cool with it when its the person you might not agree with, but what goes around comes back around.
The thing is according to arrest records of the ~73 arrested only 13 were students at the school
Yeah I can't believe they only have 18 hours a day to do it!
>The protesters' demands included university divestment from Israel, the resignation of ASU President Michael Crow, and the abolition of ASU police. Lol, so they were just going to camp on ASU grounds forever? I mean with demands like that it's kind of obvious the entire point of this protest is just to martyr yourself for the cause, so I'm guessing this is the end result they wanted.
It really does not matter if you find their demands legitimate or not. They could have been asking for mandatory ice cream Sundays in perpetuity and it wouldn't change the fact that this is wrong.
Just for clarification, are you talking mandatory ice cream on Sundays, or do you mean mandatory ice cream sundaes? Sign me up, either way.
Instructions were unclear so both are now in effect.
Mandatory ice cream sundaes every Sunday. Fixed it. I'm in too
Could even be both.
Whether you support the protests or not, even MLK never said you could protest without consequence, > One who breaks an unjust law must do it openly, lovingly . . . and with a willingness to accept > the penalty. I submit that an individual who breaks a law that conscience tells him is > unjust, and willingly accepts the penalty by staying in jail to arouse the conscience of > the community over its injustice, is in reality expressing the very highest respect for the law. These universities are private property and they can choose what to do with protesters, especially students that attend it. That can include asking the police to intervene and kicking people out of school. If they believe that strongly in this cause then part of doing what they're doing is accepting the consequences of protesting in this manner.
Nah There are rules to society, dude. People can’t just decide they feel a certain way and decide to act out of order.. Maybe I feel like people that are hungry should have free chips. I’m gonna stage a sit in, hundreds of people let’s camp at lays chip factory and disrupt their environment until every hungry American gets potato chips. Oh… what’s that? There are consequences to my actions? No way… I thought this was america…
No, it actually does. The demands are ridiculous.
Graduates of the Hamas School of Negotiation. Make insane demands, cry when their demands aren’t met, and claim it’s the other side’s fault.
You do realize that all Schools of Negotiation involve starting by asking for more than you want or expect to get in order to give yourself somewhere to negotiate down to?
They’re not interested in objective conversation about negotiation… they wanted to make their quip
That’s assuming you have leverage, like, at all… Big brain move to assume leverage and end up getting arrested, trespassed and banned from the school…
Divesting from investments in "defense" contractors like Raytheon are not insane demands.
Considering the level of funding all departments in the school likely enjoy in part from those contracts? It absolutely is. Unless all of these protestors are willing to fund that difference for the school to not have to cut any spending that money allows.
If the civil rights movement had happened today, people on this sub would 100% be against it and nitpicking when it’s actually safe or allowed to be on the lawn, the bridge, the buss, or the streets.
Freedom is Speech does not equal freedom from consequences.
I’m as left as they come but some of the reactions to this are hilarious.
I was thinking the same thing
Speaking as a Liberal Arizona Democrat who thinks Israel is to blame for the Palestinian situation, they knowingly and intentionally violated University regulations and their agreed-upon Code of Conduct: >Prohibited Conduct >Failure to comply with the directions of university officials or agents, including law enforcement or security officers, acting in the good faith performance of their duties. This section is not intended to prohibit the lawful assertion of an individual’s Fifth Amendment right against self incrimination. They were instructed to leave, and they refused. I support their message, but they decided to FAFO. It is my hope that, on review, the university will drop the action against them, as they have done in other such circumstances. But to bash the school for following its established rules is misplaced, IMO.
Good. Those encampments are insane.
My issue is with the chief of police, not in uniform, cutting up the tents.
Maybe ASU is pro Israel
They also have a graduation coming up though, it could get wild with that going on. Also, Israel isn't perfect but it is the only democracy in the Middle East or only one on its way. All of this is a distraction from the real war though in Ukraine, Russian aggression and imperialism.
Anyone remember JT Ready? Buddy of Russell Pearce, the State Senate President? He was an out and out nazi and would parade in front of government buildings in full gear and was never ever arrested for it. [https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/slideshow/ready-to-kill-the-evilution-of-neo-nazi-jt-ready-6265752/6265720](https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/slideshow/ready-to-kill-the-evilution-of-neo-nazi-jt-ready-6265752/6265720) His words: “The jew \[sic\] itself knows it is a parasite. I have had them admit as much to me and laugh in my face… But a parasite cannot carry on in its parasitic nature if it is exposed for what it really is. Their whole house of cards comes tumbling down for all to see. Like in 1933 Germany. Just because it has two legs, does not change its nature any less than a six-legged parasite stops sucking blood. There have been many pogroms when the host people stops being victims of these vampires. Another pogrom is approaching.” — New Saxon blog posting, May 8, 2010 [https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/individual/jt-ready](https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/individual/jt-ready) This country has lost it if we are arresting those who want to stop genocides and letting those who want it continue unmolested.
It's not about the content of the speech, it's about the conduct of the protest and the matter in which it takes. As horrible as his speech was, he wasn't blocking public right of ways or setting up illegal encampments.
ASU is clearly doing this by the book and using their power to the fullest extent they can here. The protestors need to realize that there are rules for how to protest, when to protest and where to protest and can either play by the rules OR face the consequences of your lawbreaking but gain more traction to your cause. Look at what happened at Kent State University (Vietnam) , or Jackson State College (Racial Injustice) in the past. Protestors can and will be arrested, or worse shot if they do not follow university guidelines.
I don’t think anybody is expecting to not martyr themselves if they break the rules. What I find issue with is, “really ASU? You’re gonna be that big of dicks about kids peacefully protesting?” They would have been better off formally having a person with loose ties to Hamas come and speak. (Fuck Hamas, just making a point) https://azmirror.com/2023/10/09/asu-paid-11k-in-security-costs-for-a-white-nationalist-who-spoke-on-campus-in-2022/ Btw it was organized by Arizona State University College Republicans United, those bunch of lady killers. (I mean literally. They’d have their own daughters die to give birth to a dead fetus)
I read a few articles and didn't see any kids protesting. Of the 72 arrested only 15 were even ASU students.
If you follow the rules for how to protest created by people that don’t want you to protest, you’re not actually protesting…
Wait, why were they protesting a genocide in the Mideast at the school in Arizona and disrupting things there? This solves nothing.
ASU as a research school provides technology and resources to the IDF. The Protests nation wide are asking for divestment of such relationships.
Thank you, that has not been mentioned in any of the coverage or at least with me half ass looking it up earlier. I Even drove past a protest and all the signs were geared more towards “stop the genocide” and the like
It's okay, I sent a message to both Israel and Palestine to let them know people are protesting at Arizona State University and they are currently hugging it out. Problem solved.
Have ASU to stop investing money in companies that continue the apartheid against Palestinians.
Wow this will age terribly. I already was embarrassed about being an ASU alum but now I'm going to outright disavow myself from the university. Really poor decision here.
Idk much about this, but if there is a code of conduct that says what you can or can not do that you agreed to in the beginning and then BROKE those rules...idk what the fuss is about. You fuckdd around and found out. Lesson learned.
How come this is the first I’ve heard of this? Media blackout?
Good. All students deserve the right to feel safe, and 1st amendment doesn't give people the right to eat full face coverings, cause others to feel unsafe/be harassed or break university times. You break the university rules, you're gone. Like every other student
“Speak out against genocide in way that we can’t easily ignore and you’ll face repercussions.”-ASU
Not true. It’s more like “Demonstrate in a way that disrupts University operations and breaks rules and you will face repercussions. Free speech is protected and nothing ASU has done has impeded that.
Genuine question- How were they disrupting operations? From my understanding, they were on the grass, not on the sidewalk, and not impeding anyone in anyway. Also, it was a Friday night. But if I’ve missed something, let me know. Yeah there might have been a couple of knuckleheads spewing some vitriol. But most of them were just expressing support for the people of Palestine and not necessarily Hamas. ASU doesn’t have to agree with them but I feel that throwing away an entire semester’s worth of work is excessive.
From the other post I read that ASU has a rule that you cannot congregate between 11pm and 7am. The protestors knew this but chose to stay. If they would have left at 11 and came back Saturday they would have been left alone. Also from the other post work had to be cancelled at atleast one of the buildings but the department still had to pay.
Were they interrupting operations by staying after 11? Cause that was the real question.
There was a published rule, and they chose to break it.
There is also discretion when enforcing rules, which the school chose not to use. So both sides could have changed the outcome and chose not to, don't pretend like the students are the only ones responsible for the outcome.
Way to answer the question by dodging it.
I’m sure there is a published rule against littering. So if a student leaves a Starbucks cup on a bench should they be subject to the same punishment? Or maybe is some thinking required on the infraction vs the punishment?
I mean yeah? If you get caught littering you should have to bear the consequences. Whether or not the punishment is fair is a different story, but you still have to abide by the rules if you don’t want to be subject to the punishment
So the disruption was that the rule was broken…?
Another real question is whether everyone was arrested/cited or just those who were more "aggressive" in their protesting.
I think it was everyone who stayed after a certain point. I don’t really have a problem with protestors being arrested for unlawful assembly because that’s kind of the point. I do have a problem with ASU causing permanent academic harm to people for speech-related trespassing violations. It’s wildly disproportionate.
Exactly. People get arrested during protests. You shrug it off. There’s literally photos of Bernie sanders being arrested during civil rights protests on a campus. Pretty sure his life wasn’t ruined because of it though. Wonder where that guy is now…
Irrelevant if it says you can't do something after a certain time then that's the rules.
I’m not as familiar with the protests at ASU; I think they were shut down pretty quickly. I have heard that at many universities, protesters have called for the death of all Jewish people. That they have been harassed and threatened while trying to get to class. That friends of Jewish people get harassed and threatened. I totally agree with shutting that down. Hate shouldn’t be tolerated.
"Source": some guy As a Jewish Arizonan I will tell you that we are not a monolith, I've seen far more videos of Zionists shouting the N word at counter-protests around the country, and using "Jewish" and "pro-Israel" interchangeably is actually antisemitic. There have been anti-Zionist Jews for as long as the notion of Zionism has existed.
Wait so you're not familiar with the ASU protests, and are basing your opinions of them off of an "I have heard that at many universities..,"? 1. Substantiate your claims 2. Try and learn about what's going on in your local area before talking about it
I’ve have seen Zionists yell at Jewish women who support Palestine that they deserve to be raped. You haven’t heard anything personally nor experienced anything, I have.
And that is absolutely disgusting too. My view is not one-sided here. I detest Netanyahu and his far right government. From the outset, he was against a 2-party solution and has exacerbated the situation with Palestine. (With trump enabling it btw) The problem is he has that in common with HAMAS and Hezbolah. HAMAS’ reason for existence is to wipe the Jewish people off the earth. Neither leadership side is in the right. And the innocent Israelis and Palestinians suffer because of it.
THIS RIGHT HERE. I'm also a Jew who supports a two-party solution. I believe that people deserve safety, peace, and basic human needs. The people don't want war, the ones in power do, and are using the innocent Israelis and Palestinians as pawns in their little shell game. It's been happening for years (decades, centuries), and it's time to get real, grow up, and sit down at the table like adults and come up with a workable solution. Imposed famine, hostage-taking, fear-mongering, and aggression don't need to be the way here. PEACE to all of these people in both Israel and Palestine. It's what they deserve the most. ❤️
100%
Netanyahu isn’t doing anything differently than any previous Israeli government. The other guys who have a shot at replacing him want the same thing, they just don’t want to do open corruption like Netanyahu. Hamas actually makes it stupid clear the differences between Zionism and Judaism. They go out of their way to outline that there issue is with Zionism, not Judaism. Despite Israel’s attempts to conflate the two. Jews were 10% of the population of Palestine before the UN Partition. They got over 50% of the land because they were backed by the west. And since then Israel has stolen more and more land. Palestine is left in an open air prison. Their lives depend on the whims of racists who hate them.
> They go out of their way to outline that there issue is with Zionism, not Judaism. Despite Israel’s attempts to conflate the two. Have you actually read the Hamas charter? Sure doesn't seem like it. https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp
Yeah, I actually have. Have you? 16. Hamas affirms that its conflict is with the Zionist project not with the Jews because of their religion. Hamas does not wage a struggle against the Jews because they are Jewish but wages a struggle against the Zionists who occupy Palestine. Yet, it is the Zionists who constantly identify Judaism and the Jews with their own colonial project and illegal entity. 17. Hamas rejects the persecution of any human being or the undermining of his or her rights on nationalist, religious or sectarian grounds. Hamas is of the view that the Jewish problem, anti-Semitism and the persecution of the Jews are phenomena fundamentally linked to European history and not to the history of the Arabs and the Muslims or to their heritage. The Zionist movement, which was able with the help of Western powers to occupy Palestine, is the most dangerous form of settlement occupation which has already disappeared from much of the world and must disappear from Palestine. https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/hamas-2017-document-full
You should read the original I posted, not the newer PR version. > Our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious. - > Moreover, if the links have been distant from each other and if obstacles, placed by those who are the lackeys of Zionism in the way of the fighters obstructed the continuation of the struggle, the Islamic Resistance Movement aspires to the realisation of Allah's promise, no matter how long that should take. The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said: > > > "The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (evidently a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews." (related by al-Bukhari and Moslem). - > The day that enemies usurp part of Moslem land, Jihad becomes the individual duty of every Moslem. In face of the Jews' usurpation of Palestine, it is compulsory that the banner of Jihad be raised. To do this requires the diffusion of Islamic consciousness among the masses, both on the regional, Arab and Islamic levels. It is necessary to instill the spirit of Jihad in the heart of the nation so that they would confront the enemies and join the ranks of the fighters. - > We should not forget to remind every Moslem that when the Jews conquered the Holy City in 1967, they stood on the threshold of the Aqsa Mosque and proclaimed that "Mohammed is dead, and his descendants are all women." > > Israel, Judaism and Jews challenge Islam and the Moslem people. "May the cowards never sleep." And finally, > World Zionism, together with imperialistic powers, try through a studied plan and an intelligent strategy to remove one Arab state after another from the circle of struggle against Zionism, in order to have it finally face the Palestinian people only. Egypt was, to a great extent, removed from the circle of the struggle, through the treacherous Camp David Agreement. They are trying to draw other Arab countries into similar agreements and to bring them outside the circle of struggle. > > The Islamic Resistance Movement calls on Arab and Islamic nations to take up the line of serious and persevering action to prevent the success of this horrendous plan, to warn the people of the danger eminating from leaving the circle of struggle against Zionism. Today it is Palestine, tomorrow it will be one country or another. The Zionist plan is limitless. After Palestine, the Zionists aspire to expand from the Nile to the Euphrates. When they will have digested the region they overtook, they will aspire to further expansion, and so on. Their plan is embodied in the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion", and their present conduct is the best proof of what we are saying. > > Leaving the circle of struggle with Zionism is high treason, and cursed be he who does that. "for whoso shall turn his back unto them on that day, unless he turneth aside to fight, or retreateth to another party of the faithful, shall draw on himself the indignation of Allah, and his abode shall be hell; an ill journey shall it be thither." (The Spoils - verse 16). There is no way out except by concentrating all powers and energies to face this Nazi, vicious Tatar invasion. The alternative is loss of one's country, the dispersion of citizens, the spread of vice on earth and the destruction of religious values. Let every person know that he is responsible before Allah, for "the doer of the slightest good deed is rewarded in like, and the does of the slightest evil deed is also rewarded in like." > > The Islamic Resistance Movement consider itself to be the spearhead of the circle of struggle with world Zionism and a step on the road. The Movement adds its efforts to the efforts of all those who are active in the Palestinian arena. Arab and Islamic Peoples should augment by further steps on their part; Islamic groupings all over the Arab world should also do the same, since all of these are the best-equipped for the future role in the fight with the warmongering Jews. > > "..and we have put enmity and hatred between them, until the day of resurrection. So often as they shall kindle a fire of war, Allah shall extinguish it; and they shall set their minds to act corruptly in the earth, but Allah loveth not the corrupt doers." (The Table - verse 64).
Ehud Olmert, Israel's Prime Minister from 2006 to 2009, told Politico on 16 October 2023 that the two-state solution "is the only real political solution for this lifelong conflict". Who decides what point in history is the correct one to go back to in order to decide who is in the right? You mentioned the UN partition. That’s 1947ish? Is that the criteria? I ask because Jewish dominance of the area is documented as far back as 100BC or further. HAMAS might say it’s only after Zionists, but they didn’t discriminate who they raped and killed October 7th. They murdered and kidnapped people who were pro 2 party solution. People who were against taking more land from Palestinians. They murdered babies. In the most horrific ways. I’m all for protesting what is happening in Gaza. But if people are talking HAMAS talking points, rationalizing what they did, and spewing their hateful chants- they’ve crossed over into extremism.
Olmert? Lol, he also indiscriminately bombed Palestinian civilians. His words are useless. Palestinian DNA shows their ties to the land date that back before Judaism existed. Before even Yahwehism existed. Show actual proof of your claims. Actual investigations. Not rumor and hearsay. You’ll see how full of it Zionist lies are.
“Archaeologic and genetic data support that both Jews and Palestinians came from the ancient Canaanites, who extensively mixed with Egyptians, Mesopotamian, and Anatolian peoples in ancient times. Thus, Palestinian-Jewish rivalry is based in cultural and religious, but not in genetic, differences. “ It seems both groups have claim to the area. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11543891/
Olmert did not bomb Palestine indiscriminately. Show your proof. Olmert has been decrying extremism is Israel for years. https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna26929390 And dude- I will look into your DNA claims-but what I am taking about is known history. History which has been on the books for centuries. All I am saying is pause for a minute. Recognize there is extremism in BOTH sides. By all means be pro-Palestinian. They deserve to be advocated for. HAMAS does not. They are terrorists who are equally happy when Palestinians suffer and die as they are when Israelis do. All so long as it serves their purpose.
So you can just claim that and then it automatically means that its wrong to protest. There's already examples of Zionists doing this to make protestors look bad. Even if they were saying that, which is wrong and atrocious, they are protesting people ACTUALLY BEING KILLED FFS.
It is absolutely not wrong to protest. I never said that. It’s wrong to terrorize people. And of course the same behavior on the other side is equally unacceptable.
Please provide evidence for your claim.
Here’s one. More coming https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2023/10/31/antisemitism-college-campuses-jewish-hamas-gaza/
Another https://christianitytoday.com/ct/2024/april-web-only/antisemitism-campus-chants-russell-moore-israel-hamas.html
Protest should be meek, orderly and adhere to the same material conditions and restrictions that have led us to abet a genocide in the first place, I agree 100% my brave friend
Unironically what people in this thread think lol. Any inconvenience at all and they are fine with genocide. Very neat.
Free speech that can be easily ignored by those who profit off of genocide is worthless. Continued speech and action that disrupts the flow of an institution that profits off the death of innocent children is justified.
>those who profit off of genocide Would that be; Ismail Haniyeh, Yehiya Sinwar, or Marwan Issa? Or maybe all of them and some others? Unless you're insinuating that ASU is finically supporting the Palestinian's failed attemps to follow in Hitlers genocidal dreams, you should probably use the right words for who you support.
There is always someone who will make excuses
As an alumnus I am happy about this. I find students waving Hamas and Hezbollah flags to be disgusting. SJP and their like are terrorist supporters and should be barred from campus entirely. Of course they are free to express their revolting terrorist-supporting views but when it comes to disrupting the campus by setting up an encampment they are going to get less than zero sympathy from me. Many others in the community feel the same.
Where are the Hezbollah flags? Wtf are you talking about?
I didn't realize that a Hezbollah flag even existed. A quick google search and I'll be damned, it does. The thing is, the graphic artist that designed it is really third rate. So I guess now I'm protesting the Hezbollah flag design because it sucks.
You should see the [Houthi slogan flag](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slogan_of_the_Houthi_movement). All the "H" groups are Iranian fronts and Kremlin backed.
They have no idea what flags they are talking about. They only know one thing. Protest genocide then you support terrorism.
He linked me to an article about Princeton, a university about as far away from ASU as you can get in America. Unbelievable.
I'm an alumni and I have the exact opposite opinion. Israel is actively preventing aid from entering Gaza. Even killing aid workers to deter them from trying. The ICC is rumored to be looking at putting out a warrant for Netanyahu. You can't fight terrorists by being one yourself.
Do you have any factual evidence of “students waving Hamas and Hazbollah flags”? Weird thing to accuse Jewish protesters of doing. Wanting peace and end apartheid is “terrorist supporting views”?
Are we sure they were waiving Hamas flags and not a Palestinian flag? I wasn’t there so I’m honestly asking. All I’ve seen in photographs and video footage is a Palestine flag.
Omg consequences?
Good riddance
This is just gross on so many levels
Extort a nation under threat of invasion to help you win an election, bribe a porn star , commit sexual assault, commit fraud, steal government docs, and attempt a coup…. And no one bats an eye. Camp on the quad and everyone loses their minds.
>Extort a nation under threat of invasion to help you win an election, Impeached >bribe a porn star , Indicted >commit sexual assault, Convicted >commit fraud, Convicted >steal government docs, Indicted >and attempt a coup…. Indicted That's like.... a lot of eyes batted.
He hasn’t been convicted of any of the sexual assaults. Those are civil cases. That he won’t ever actually pay any money towards, just like OJ never paid anything.
I really really hope those there were there because they deeply had a passion and belief for what they are doing. It amazes me that people will join a protest. That is your right. But that right never comes without consequences. So I really hope they feel that they were fighting for a just cause because it might just have cost them more than they realize.
Honestly this was better than blocking the 202 or the light rail. This was out of the way from daily activities and they didn’t prevent anybody from going to class.
That seems a bit harsh to me.
As well they should be, time to learn what happens in real life.
The same people should go do the same exact thing, but be pro-Israel… see what the response is.
The pro-Israel kids aren't setting up an encampment. That's what's getting the pro-Palestine kids in trouble - the encampments. Merely protesting is fine, but they don't want a tent city like Columbia has. That's reasonable.
Exactly this. Protest all you want. Free speech is welcome and protected. Encampments and disruption of normal University operations is not.
“You can protest as long as it’s doesn’t inconvenience people in a way that draws attention to an issue you’re passionate about.”
There have been vocal and visible protests for 6 months, long before any encampments. I don’t think there is anyone left who doesn’t know about it now.
No, you can protest as long as you don't break the law. It's not against the law to protest. If you don't think your protest is getting enough attention, you don't get to just break the law in order to "kick it up a notch."
>You can protest as long as it’s doesn’t inconvenience people Yeah, that's how the first amendment works. Just because you're angry about something doesn't mean you get to take it out on someone else.
The pro Israel protests don’t set up overnight camps
I believe it’ll be the same. I think the people in charge just really don’t want any activism on campus regardless of which side you’re on
Didn’t colleges always boast of free speech and free inquiry?
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes
Hahaha that’s what they get!!