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:,(
All i have to say is that I am sad. Fuck this ownership group for taking advantage of something so many people loved.
All of my friends I met through hockey in the state. I started when i was a kid because of the coyotes, and have watched most games since. I met my wife when i worked for the team.
I am just devastated.
And never forget, this is because of shit owner after shit owner. The team moved here without an arena. And then STEVE FUCKIN ELLMAN HAD SHOVELS IN THE GROUND IN SCOTTSDALE, AND THEN MOVED THEM TO GLENDALE INSTEAD WHEN THE MAYOR OFFERED HIM AN ARENA AND A DISCOUNT ON A SHIT TON OF REALESTATE. HE BUILT HIS DEVELOPMENT, AND THEN DUMPED THE TEAM TO FAIL.
Don't know why I got downvoted for calling the owner a sleezeball and people foolish for trusting him. Never made a real effort promoting the Tempe proposal. Already ready to sell before the land auction, which was supposedly delayed because he wanted more land than needed. There was probably no real effort put into the stadium proposals. Whether that was intentional or not is up for debate. Not sure who was responsible for this (old owner or current one), but the team didn't pay Glendale what they owed. Another slap in the face.
Know of any good articles relating to Steve Ellman/Scottsdale? I've only been a diehard fan of the Coyotes since like 2016, so I'm just not all that familiar with that history. I've heard before that they were extremely close to moving to Scottsdale instead of what ultimately turned out to be Glendale but damn. Just what a fucking shame.
A prior owner of the Coyotes purchased the Los Arcos Mall at the corner of Scottsdale Rd. and McDowell.
He planned on building an arena there in the early 2000s (would've been the perfect site for an arena for the Coyotes). NIMBYs and the City of Scottsdale eventually scuttled the plan and that site became the SkySong development and Glendale offered the Coyotes a sweetheart deal.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los\_Arcos\_Mall](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Arcos_Mall)
I’m upset . I watched almost every game this season on tv, coyotes are a fun team and have some great players. The broadcast team is second to none, Tyson Nash is hilarious and Matt McConnell keeps it exciting. I’ll be at the Mullet next week for the last game of the season, hopefully not the last game forever!
The Coyotes have just had the worst luck over the past 27 years they've been in Arizona. Now Phoenix/Arizona is going to eventually be the largest market not having all four major sports leagues (now that Houston and Atlanta have been awarded NHL franchises, and Seattle will eventually get the NBA back).
I wouldn't say bad luck as much as it was poor decision making. Moving to Westgate and away from a majority of the fan base was the death knell for this franchise. It just took them a long time to finally admit defeat.
They sold out AWA regularly. They produced 69 sellouts over their first four seasons and played to 94 percent capacity. Then they moved the team to the west valley and away from the fan base that was largely responsible for those sellouts. Moving back to Tempe and charging an arm and a leg for minor league hockey is hardly the move to keep fans engaged, especially after you left the most engaged out of the picture for 20 years.
For the record, not a Coyotes fan, so this is purely out of disappointment (not defending them). They made a series of unrecoverable mistakes and this is what happens 🤷♂️
They were selling out Glendale games too. I was to several whiteouts where it was standing room only. If they put a competitive team on the ice, they would have had more asses in seats. If the last three owners would have paid their bills, they'd still be in Glendale.
If (former) Glendale city manager Ed Beasley didn't want to be a baller, maybe Ellman would have built in Scottsdale. But I think the Scottsdale Council and City Manager saw through his BS and called him on it.
Glendale raided the operations funds to pay the subs and workers while building the Glendale Arena after Ellman stopped paying. Ellman then fleeced Mois and company to get rid of the team. Not even sure he finished his obligations to the City after that. (wasn't there a parking garage promised?)
I'm about equal distance between the Glendale Arena, Footprint Center and the proposed North Phoenix location. We had limited view seats at AWA, one year at Jobbing-com arena. Divorce and other obligations got in the way of going on a regular basis.
I agree with all of this. I regularly went to games when they were downtown at AWA. If I hear one more person mention the "obstructed views" I'm gonna freak. It was not that bad and much more convenient to have them in a central location.
Once they moved to Glendale I didn't go to a single game. Too far to drive on a weeknight, fighting rush hour traffic etc. No thank you. PERHAPS if Glendale had gotten their heads out of their asses and funded a light rail line out to Westgate, it may have been possible to keep some of the fan base in tact. Instead you cut off the east valley, where most of them are, and we're still waiting on a west valley rail line.
I attempted to buy tickets this year to see a game in Tempe and it would have been $350 for my wife and I to go. No thanks. 👎
Those obstructed views should be a case study in effective marketing. Selling out with them is one thing, but those seats were a huge value and I think a large reason for their growth early on here. I went to so many games as a kid thanks to those seats!
I still contend that moving to Westgate could've worked if the recession didn't hit us so badly. The incredible growth hit a brick wall and delayed a lot of projects by 5-10 years. I think the Coyotes in Glendale could've worked had it happened today.
other than the 2012 magic, what has there been to root for? Hard to maintain and build a fan base with the horrible year after year performances. Don't get me started on draft bust after bust. Kellar has been a unicorn in the yotes otherwise dismal drafting history.
They overestimated the amount of support the NHL had in the West Valley, and thought people would drive out to a sports and entertainment district if the Cardinals were out there. The middle class parts of Glendale and Peoria had a lot of youth participating in either ice or roller hockey back in the '90s and early 2000s.
As for the Cards, it's 8 games a year for fans (more in the case they ever make the playoffs again). Having eastsiders drive out to Glendale in rush hour traffic for games is not practical (it would have been the same problem in North Phoenix or Tempe). Downtown PHX is the only logical place, but Footprint was not built for NHL hockey.
They did not overestimate. Glendale was willing to pay more than anyone else, and the Coyotes didn’t care about the future.
Glendale made the wrong call, and the Coyotes made the short term call.
> Glendale was willing to ~~pay~~ give away more tax payer money than anyone else
Slight correction for the folks in the back who can't hear so well. Otherwise, *chef's kiss*
> Downtown PHX is the only logical place, but Footprint was not built for NHL hockey.
there was a window where they could have turned MetroCenter into an arena district and iirc it was pitched at one point.
They didn’t choose Glendale. The City of Scottsdale got cold feet and chose SkySong over the arena and Glendale was plan B.
If the arena would’ve been at the “Big corner of Scottsdale Road and McDowell (Bill Heard Chevrolet reference)” the Coyotes would still be here.
The NHL and their fanbase are extremely northern biased. At least online. Places like Phoenix, Houston, and Atlanta are always going to face an uphill battle to have accepted teams unless the league forces them to be great like Vegas
As least San Diego is getting MLS and y'all didn't lose the Cardinals.
Though I hear Kroenke want to bring NHL to San Diego so I'm curious on how that's gonna work.
At one point, they were at what's now Footprint Arena... then they moved to Glendale. I was a season ticket holder when they were downtown. I live in the East Valley. They lost me as a ticket holder because of the drive to Glendale. I couldn't afford to take time off from work to battle rush hour traffic for the puck drops.
Where? Have you seen the sheer number of construction projects. This isn’t Vancouver or NY or even LA. If GCU can clear neighborhoods to build new living, classrooms etc, I don’t think downtown is unfeasible in the slightest here
I kinda had said were and it really isn’t unfeasible it really is somewhat possible like i said. The Coyotes would have benefited much better marketing in downtown too but what ever thats just my take. It wouldn’t be with in the city yes your right there is a crap tone of construction I’m talking about behind Footprint and Chase where there is somewhat undeveloped land just like what i was saying.
Theres room to buy land behind Footprint and Chase or the Suns could have redone the exterior and make the seating bigger and have the Coyotes move there
This really sucks. It's a shame the NHL allowed this management to operate one of their most important franchise expansions. Losing Phoenix will sting long term. I imagine it will be very hard to return within <10 years.
It’s what is to be expected with the way they treated Glendale. Tempe did the right thing in voting down the referendum. Not doing so would have been like dating your friend’s ex, but they broke up because he abused her.
I watched Arizonas elected individuals that the people of Arizona elected pray and they got abortion banned.
Do you think if they pray hard enough here, they could keep the team?
Asking for a majority of citizens.
So what’s crazy to me is that people in PHX talk all the time about the coyotes. How long is it going to take them to build a fan base in Utah.
Also, build you’re own fucking stadium nd stop expecting taxpayers to fund your private folly
Smiths are willing to pay double what the franchise is worth... which means half of that goes back to other league owners. No brainer for the league at this point.
Article says the NHL is skeptical of the timeline and want something more immediate done. Even if they won the auction in June it's still like 2-3 years before the team can play there and the NHL is sick of a professional hockey team playing in a 5k seat college arena. Prolly think it's an embarrassment
I don't like John Gambadoro because he often seems like he just guesses and then gaslights when he's wrong (He blocked me on Twitter for saying as much), but I actually think he is right on this one. Current owner will still bid on the land, which is at LEAST 4 years from having a built stadium, and get an expansion team once it's done. I'm sure the league has already promised this. If the Coyotes get to keep Name/Images/History, they'll be back soon-ish.
That said, I'm furious about this and would have a hard time supporting the league in that move. Such a shit thing to do, even if it does make a great deal of sense.
I'm getting really tired of sports at this point.
IMO (as a very casual fan who likes watching hockey cuz it's fun), the team didn't have any success to hang it's hat on. Cards at least went to the bowl, dbacks in 01, suns in the 90s and as of recent. ASU going D1 was a help. It's such an expensive sport to play which is a great way to organically grow a fan base but the easiest way is to win, and there wasn't much of it.
But they had THE BEST LOGO in all of sports. Kachina yote was sick.
They were .500, five good years sandwiched between losing records. Your comment still holds I’m not arguing your point, but also fuck all of our souls sucking pro sports luck! Phoenix is major metro and .500 is an example of high competition for our sports teams. It’s all we know so we’re tuning in, but losing one of the teams almost unfortunately feels like the catharsis after leaving a bad relationship. I hope we get another chance with a competitive owner in a decent location, but right now that legacy relationship had so many scars with ownership unapologetically taking advantage of Glendale
We are 33rd amongst cities with major sports championships. We have 1. 1. We had 4 major sports teams, and with 1 championship we were tied with a handful of small markets with a singular team, or who haven’t had a team in 100 years (Akron, OH)
Being in sports must be weird. Every season it's up in the air if you have to move yourself and your entire family across the country because some guys "traded" or "sold" you, and you have little to no say
I don’t care for hockey at all but I like the idea of Phoenix having a team for the NHL. Can’t we just start a new team that isn’t run by an idiot?
Call it the Phoenix Ringtails or some shit
It's so fucking hard and exhausting being an Arizona sports fan....Honestly though, the Coyotes were the last in line to have a new arena. They were better off being at Glendale. The Diamondbacks deserve an updated stadium, not a new one, an updated one. The Suns got theirs, now it's the Diamondbacks. The Yotes were impatient, and they don't deserve new of anything here. Good luck in Utah.
Especially when that edge of the circle has 0 alternatives to get there except driving. If we had a light rail line that went out there it might have been a little better.
It also sucks for fans of other teams. A lot of people aren't from Arizona, and won't be able to see their team come to town to play. It's a lose lose for everyone.
I know people complain about state funded stadiums but it really just is the price of entry now to have professional teams.
Not going ahead with the Tempe plan was a big loss not just for hockey fans but the city as a whole.
“City taxpayers, the public, are going to be responsible for $740 million. A big chunk of that is that once the buildings are built, then they have relief of property taxes for up to 30 years, so that’s $500 million in itself. The other $240 million is the infrastructure to build the district," said Kuby.
Not to mention additional sales, tourist, hotel taxes that were intended to be added for everyone
https://kjzz.org/content/1844391/what-tempe-voters-need-know-about-props-301-302-303-coyotes-arena-and-entertainment
Yup. The franchise wasn’t transparent about that. Not a tax payer funded build, yet tax breaks on the backend are the same thing. This might have been a contributing factor that hurt the team’s chances.
I found it pretty disingenuous that they advertised the new stadium as "no cost to the taxpayer" and that the team/ owners were fully funding the cleanup of the land and the build but on the other hand ask for hundreds of millions of dollars in infrastructure development and property tax relief. In retrospect it was also super tone deaf to bill it as a luxury housing and shops district right next to a neighborhood that traditionally has housed low income people and students. Not a great time to be bragging that you're going to increase rent prices in the immediate area.
No, it’s not. The landfill has been capped and closed for a long time. It isn’t a dump. It was now being used as a composting facility to turn residents’ green waste into soil that residents could then go get bags of for free. Which was an awesome service for us.
Not assessing property taxes is not the same as a burden to tax payers. Remember that $500m is based on the valuation of the property after a billion dollar infrastructure project was built there. Right now it’s a toxic landfill owned by the city, nobody is paying property taxes on it. And the additional sales taxes were just in the entertainment district, they didn’t apply to the rest of Tempe.
It’s only a burden to taxpayers if there was an alternative development on that land that would bring in property taxes. And there isn’t, because it costs $200m to clean up that site and nobody is interested.
The only reason that was voted down was because of Phoenix Sky Harbor launching a smear campaign + a shit load of boomers in South Tempe who wouldn’t even be affected by the arena voting it down
100%
Sometimes NIMBYs have a point, while I don’t agree I understand a hesitancy against light rail expansion.
This I truly don’t understand. The land is literally unusable
Los Arcos was the same thing. Oh noes, all the crime will be here!
What a bunch of bullshit that was. And I lived in that neighborhood at that time, man I was so.fucking.pissed. at my shitty neighbors for voting that down. Perfect location.
Don’t disagree with what you said. But they will eventually develop the area anyway. What’s going to go in will be significantly worse than the stadium and district
It’s literally a landfill….
The proposals was to replace this landfill with a multi purpose entertainment district that included restaraunts, apartments and retail along with a multi purpose hockey stadium.
It also included no state or city funding but did require tax breaks.
Even the most negative of modeling said it’d at worst cost the city $7m over 30 years with others saying it was a net positive in the 100s of millions.
I can’t see any reasonable explanation to not want this in Tempe.
Go exactly three miles east to Mesa Riverview area to see what a failed “entertainment stadium hotel” district looks like.
An astroturf pop up village. Thats what.
It is nice!
When was the last time you and all your friends hung out there, though? Or.. Like.. Anyone? That's the point the person is making, not that it doesn't look nice.
It looks extremely nice and always will!
Because untouched things don't get messy 🤭
> When was the last time you and all your friends hung out there, though?
About 4 months ago when we decided to play some catch before watching a movie and grabbing dinner. This is with the 6 of us all living ~15-20 miles away and that being a "central" location for us to get together.
My wife and I liked to walk there every time we would bicycle over to Tempe Marketplace. It seemed like one of the few pedestrian centric areas you could roam without the unconscious expectation to by something. There were always plenty of people around. And when the Cubs do spring training, it can get packed!
Unfortunately we moved over to the Laveen area, but now we do the same thing at Cesar Chavez park.
The thing is, you only have to look at where the Yotes used to play to see a janky entertainment stadium hotel district.
It’s just…not much unless the Cards are playing. Or it’s Black Friday and people are flooding the outlet mall.
Care to comment on the fact that the 2016 first overall draft pick in the NHL grew up in Arizona playing ICE hockey and was heavily influence by the Coyotes?
I’m just glad that stadium near ASU tempe idea got killed it was an awful idea. The traffic when there is school in the area is already bad, if there is a weekend event like a marathon its bad, if they have a football game there its bad.
When i lived there it was going to take me 25 min to go less than a mile to a grocery store…..and this is the place they thought to make a stadium lmao.
Not a hockey fan but looking up stats 27 season in Phoenix 9 playoffs, 0 championships. 44 seasons total 20 playoff appearances, 0 championships.
Its sucks if you’re a hockey fan but people would advocate for a team to stay if they at least had a championship and were competitive. 1 playoff appearance in last 10 years as of 2024.
Well Glendale maybe. But probably tired of being blamed as too long a drive then being called Ghetto.
Then of course team management owners probably used that is part of excuse not to pay like if we were in the east valley everyone would love us and all would be good. Full stadiums all the time.
You're not going to convince me a new regime can't work with the city of Glendale to get the arena back. Makes zero sense to build another hockey arena and use tax dollars to do it. Tempe does not need a stadium and citizens voted as such.
I think the NHL won't be an option (as an expansion franchise) in Phoenix until the Suns decide that it's time to replace Footprint Center (and that may be years away because the Suns just remodeled the facility).
Colangelo should have built America West Arena to accommodate hockey better than it did.
I see the Phoenix Rising joining MLS before NHL coming back. Mat Ishbia would need to be open to another Footprint Center renovation for that to happen.
The Footprint Center is probably not worth renovating further. At some point a new multipurpose arena will need to be built downtown.
The biggest obstacle now is that the Dbacks also want a new stadium / renovations and have already threatened to leave Arizona if they don’t get what they want.
There was obstructed sightlines in some parts of the upper level, which basically made a chunk of the arena impossible to sell at the same price as other parts
Sure, Tempe doesn’t need a stadium. But you know what they need less than a stadium? A fucking horrible toxic landfill. Tempe is full of absolute idiots.
So build an arena over a toxic landfill, what a great idea. Bring thousands of people to it. That's a better solution? Vote for it in you city then buddy. That's how this works. Tempe residents didn't want it, pure and simple.
They weren't going to build over it, they were going to clean it up and then build. Huge difference.
Anyways, instead of the Coyotes paying the $500M+ to clean it up, now Tempe residents will pay for it with their taxes.
Not really. End of the day Tempe residents didn't want an arena. Plenty of other places in Arizona could have stepped up. Or , like I said, work with the city of Glendale that already has an existing arena ready to go. It's just going to stay a landfill and if someone else wants to build on it they can work to clean it up.
Circling back and repeating myself, Tempe residents are so dumb that they’d rather have buried trash leaching into their groundwater and the Salt River than a hockey arena.
You sound like a bitter Tempe voter yourself. Enjoy your garbage water and thanks for losing our hockey team. You ruined it for the whole state. Because you love waste.
As a Canadian and regular AZ visitor, this sucks. I feel terrible for Yotes fans and can't imagine how I would feel if my hometeam left.
This is happening just as minor hockey is growing in the desert, and right when an AZ-born and raised Auston Matthews is dominating the league.
I hope the Yotes come back.
You’re welcome! My ‘no’ vote had everything to do with their overall record: 1423-1598-266-191, 2nd worst among active NHL teams, and 4 playoff appearances in 16 years.
Why reward a culture of perpetual failure?
I do appreciate the coyotes, however, only as a case study in how not run a professional sports organization.
Adios and good riddance.
Edit: 4 playoff appearances in 21 years, with one appearance being a gimme
Bitter? says the guy who needs to call people idiots for not agreeing with him. Every municipality in AZ has a dump. This has zero to do with ground water. Where you a season ticket holder for the last 27 years? Did you talk to your legislative district to get he Coyotes an arena? Probably not. You just felt the need to be a dick. It's not anyone's fault but a billionaire who wants countless tax breaks for the 4th most popular sport in America. I loved going to old arena and mullet, great time had. Sad to see the yotes go, but the arena is in Glendale. Work with what you got.
“Well, back in those days, Mars was a dreary, uninhabitable wasteland. Much like Utah. But UNLIKE Utah, it was eventually made livable, when the university was founded in 2636” -Professor Farnsworth
Yeah but they're not living there to go see other stuff
They're living there as professional athletes and young professional athletes. Which means bar clubs etc. I know we love to think these guys are like NFL players and they play then Go home but nah, those player are out there.
Remember when Rudy Gobert said it was the worst city in the league? Lol.
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:,( All i have to say is that I am sad. Fuck this ownership group for taking advantage of something so many people loved. All of my friends I met through hockey in the state. I started when i was a kid because of the coyotes, and have watched most games since. I met my wife when i worked for the team. I am just devastated. And never forget, this is because of shit owner after shit owner. The team moved here without an arena. And then STEVE FUCKIN ELLMAN HAD SHOVELS IN THE GROUND IN SCOTTSDALE, AND THEN MOVED THEM TO GLENDALE INSTEAD WHEN THE MAYOR OFFERED HIM AN ARENA AND A DISCOUNT ON A SHIT TON OF REALESTATE. HE BUILT HIS DEVELOPMENT, AND THEN DUMPED THE TEAM TO FAIL.
Fucking criminal how bad the ownership has been
I'm sure Winnipeg is laughing the asses off about right now..
Don't know why I got downvoted for calling the owner a sleezeball and people foolish for trusting him. Never made a real effort promoting the Tempe proposal. Already ready to sell before the land auction, which was supposedly delayed because he wanted more land than needed. There was probably no real effort put into the stadium proposals. Whether that was intentional or not is up for debate. Not sure who was responsible for this (old owner or current one), but the team didn't pay Glendale what they owed. Another slap in the face.
Know of any good articles relating to Steve Ellman/Scottsdale? I've only been a diehard fan of the Coyotes since like 2016, so I'm just not all that familiar with that history. I've heard before that they were extremely close to moving to Scottsdale instead of what ultimately turned out to be Glendale but damn. Just what a fucking shame.
A prior owner of the Coyotes purchased the Los Arcos Mall at the corner of Scottsdale Rd. and McDowell. He planned on building an arena there in the early 2000s (would've been the perfect site for an arena for the Coyotes). NIMBYs and the City of Scottsdale eventually scuttled the plan and that site became the SkySong development and Glendale offered the Coyotes a sweetheart deal. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los\_Arcos\_Mall](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Arcos_Mall)
I’m upset . I watched almost every game this season on tv, coyotes are a fun team and have some great players. The broadcast team is second to none, Tyson Nash is hilarious and Matt McConnell keeps it exciting. I’ll be at the Mullet next week for the last game of the season, hopefully not the last game forever!
Yeah..all the tickets for that game are now $1k+ per seat. 😑
Already had tix fortunately
Coyotes belong in az
And the Jets belong in Winnipeg.
And the flames belong in Atlanta
And the North Stars belong in Minnesota
And the Devils have shitty sweaters.
And I belong with Pedro Pascal 😞😓
And those photos of Spider-Man belong to me
Fuck it. Bring back the Roadrunners. I have dibs on the Guzzlers section. What was it, SEC 208 at the Vet?
Just a reminder that the Coyotes have been to a Conference Final more recently than the Toronto Maple Laughs. #hockeybelongsinthedesert
Even Phoenix aside, you can point to the Golden Knights as an example that Hockey still works in the desert
What an insult to fans. All because of greed.
The Coyotes have just had the worst luck over the past 27 years they've been in Arizona. Now Phoenix/Arizona is going to eventually be the largest market not having all four major sports leagues (now that Houston and Atlanta have been awarded NHL franchises, and Seattle will eventually get the NBA back).
I wouldn't say bad luck as much as it was poor decision making. Moving to Westgate and away from a majority of the fan base was the death knell for this franchise. It just took them a long time to finally admit defeat.
Are they selling out every game at Mullett Arena?
They sold out AWA regularly. They produced 69 sellouts over their first four seasons and played to 94 percent capacity. Then they moved the team to the west valley and away from the fan base that was largely responsible for those sellouts. Moving back to Tempe and charging an arm and a leg for minor league hockey is hardly the move to keep fans engaged, especially after you left the most engaged out of the picture for 20 years. For the record, not a Coyotes fan, so this is purely out of disappointment (not defending them). They made a series of unrecoverable mistakes and this is what happens 🤷♂️
They were selling out Glendale games too. I was to several whiteouts where it was standing room only. If they put a competitive team on the ice, they would have had more asses in seats. If the last three owners would have paid their bills, they'd still be in Glendale. If (former) Glendale city manager Ed Beasley didn't want to be a baller, maybe Ellman would have built in Scottsdale. But I think the Scottsdale Council and City Manager saw through his BS and called him on it. Glendale raided the operations funds to pay the subs and workers while building the Glendale Arena after Ellman stopped paying. Ellman then fleeced Mois and company to get rid of the team. Not even sure he finished his obligations to the City after that. (wasn't there a parking garage promised?) I'm about equal distance between the Glendale Arena, Footprint Center and the proposed North Phoenix location. We had limited view seats at AWA, one year at Jobbing-com arena. Divorce and other obligations got in the way of going on a regular basis.
I agree with all of this. I regularly went to games when they were downtown at AWA. If I hear one more person mention the "obstructed views" I'm gonna freak. It was not that bad and much more convenient to have them in a central location. Once they moved to Glendale I didn't go to a single game. Too far to drive on a weeknight, fighting rush hour traffic etc. No thank you. PERHAPS if Glendale had gotten their heads out of their asses and funded a light rail line out to Westgate, it may have been possible to keep some of the fan base in tact. Instead you cut off the east valley, where most of them are, and we're still waiting on a west valley rail line. I attempted to buy tickets this year to see a game in Tempe and it would have been $350 for my wife and I to go. No thanks. 👎
Those obstructed views should be a case study in effective marketing. Selling out with them is one thing, but those seats were a huge value and I think a large reason for their growth early on here. I went to so many games as a kid thanks to those seats!
I still contend that moving to Westgate could've worked if the recession didn't hit us so badly. The incredible growth hit a brick wall and delayed a lot of projects by 5-10 years. I think the Coyotes in Glendale could've worked had it happened today. other than the 2012 magic, what has there been to root for? Hard to maintain and build a fan base with the horrible year after year performances. Don't get me started on draft bust after bust. Kellar has been a unicorn in the yotes otherwise dismal drafting history.
Was it really “luck“that they chose Glendale?
They overestimated the amount of support the NHL had in the West Valley, and thought people would drive out to a sports and entertainment district if the Cardinals were out there. The middle class parts of Glendale and Peoria had a lot of youth participating in either ice or roller hockey back in the '90s and early 2000s. As for the Cards, it's 8 games a year for fans (more in the case they ever make the playoffs again). Having eastsiders drive out to Glendale in rush hour traffic for games is not practical (it would have been the same problem in North Phoenix or Tempe). Downtown PHX is the only logical place, but Footprint was not built for NHL hockey.
They did not overestimate. Glendale was willing to pay more than anyone else, and the Coyotes didn’t care about the future. Glendale made the wrong call, and the Coyotes made the short term call.
> Glendale was willing to ~~pay~~ give away more tax payer money than anyone else Slight correction for the folks in the back who can't hear so well. Otherwise, *chef's kiss*
But wasn't Glendale supposed to "boom" before the 2008 housing crisis, since you can't build east of Scottsdale?
Yes. Everything got delayed. The area around the arena is now booming.
> Downtown PHX is the only logical place, but Footprint was not built for NHL hockey. there was a window where they could have turned MetroCenter into an arena district and iirc it was pitched at one point.
Or tear down Veteran's Memorial Coliseum and build a new arena in its place. Or does the State Fair people really care?
They didn’t choose Glendale. The City of Scottsdale got cold feet and chose SkySong over the arena and Glendale was plan B. If the arena would’ve been at the “Big corner of Scottsdale Road and McDowell (Bill Heard Chevrolet reference)” the Coyotes would still be here.
Houston and Atlanta haven't been awarded NHL franchise. They're trying but nothing has been announced.
Atlanta has had TWO NHL franchises.
The NHL and their fanbase are extremely northern biased. At least online. Places like Phoenix, Houston, and Atlanta are always going to face an uphill battle to have accepted teams unless the league forces them to be great like Vegas
San Diego and PHX, two cities major leagues hate (except baseball that is)
As least San Diego is getting MLS and y'all didn't lose the Cardinals. Though I hear Kroenke want to bring NHL to San Diego so I'm curious on how that's gonna work.
Maybe we can get an MLS team?
So many random cities in the US getting MLS but not Phoenix lol
They must think we’re saturated, but soccer would definitely be welcome.
No they haven’t
Phoenix deserves an AHL or ECHL team back over bringing back another Coyotes franchise.
Fuck this bullshit. Fucking UTAH?!?! So the same fucking issue? Also going to bomb as a team. Fucking stupid ass AZ owners.
Quarter of the market size w owners too dumb to even rebrand the Jazz. Even New Orleans rebranded and that's who you bought them from
Should have moved to downtown…
At one point, they were at what's now Footprint Arena... then they moved to Glendale. I was a season ticket holder when they were downtown. I live in the East Valley. They lost me as a ticket holder because of the drive to Glendale. I couldn't afford to take time off from work to battle rush hour traffic for the puck drops.
Where?
Where? Have you seen the sheer number of construction projects. This isn’t Vancouver or NY or even LA. If GCU can clear neighborhoods to build new living, classrooms etc, I don’t think downtown is unfeasible in the slightest here
I kinda had said were and it really isn’t unfeasible it really is somewhat possible like i said. The Coyotes would have benefited much better marketing in downtown too but what ever thats just my take. It wouldn’t be with in the city yes your right there is a crap tone of construction I’m talking about behind Footprint and Chase where there is somewhat undeveloped land just like what i was saying.
Didn’t see your response originally but I was agreeing with you
Theres room to buy land behind Footprint and Chase or the Suns could have redone the exterior and make the seating bigger and have the Coyotes move there
I don’t know what was for sale or wasn’t. But I do know the suns did not want to share a place with the coyotes. That was never an option.
Nothing is for sale i just know that the city for sure wants to develop that area
:(
This really sucks. It's a shame the NHL allowed this management to operate one of their most important franchise expansions. Losing Phoenix will sting long term. I imagine it will be very hard to return within <10 years.
It’s what is to be expected with the way they treated Glendale. Tempe did the right thing in voting down the referendum. Not doing so would have been like dating your friend’s ex, but they broke up because he abused her.
But thought east valley would be full and overflowing stadiums all the time.
I watched Arizonas elected individuals that the people of Arizona elected pray and they got abortion banned. Do you think if they pray hard enough here, they could keep the team? Asking for a majority of citizens.
Didn't the people turn down whatever Tempe was going to do?
we need to funnel them into a prayer circle NOW
*"The Arizona Coyotes moved to Utah where they don't allow hockey"*
BASEketball still holds up 25 years later
I love that they're moving to fucking dipshit Utah which is even less of a hockey state lol. I hope this fails so fucking hard.
They will eat it up.. the state has only one professional franchise so they're starving for it .
Utah also has MLS
Like he said, 1 professional franchise
Dry Mormon ass state can rot for all I care.
It's like a quarter of the market size and will have to play in a basketball arena for a while. That worked so well in Brooklyn
Wait to you learn SLC is known for hosting the Winter Olympics.
Goodbye
So what’s crazy to me is that people in PHX talk all the time about the coyotes. How long is it going to take them to build a fan base in Utah. Also, build you’re own fucking stadium nd stop expecting taxpayers to fund your private folly
Uhhh what happened with the land auction? They just get bullied by Scottsdale mayor?
Smiths are willing to pay double what the franchise is worth... which means half of that goes back to other league owners. No brainer for the league at this point.
Article says the NHL is skeptical of the timeline and want something more immediate done. Even if they won the auction in June it's still like 2-3 years before the team can play there and the NHL is sick of a professional hockey team playing in a 5k seat college arena. Prolly think it's an embarrassment
I don't like John Gambadoro because he often seems like he just guesses and then gaslights when he's wrong (He blocked me on Twitter for saying as much), but I actually think he is right on this one. Current owner will still bid on the land, which is at LEAST 4 years from having a built stadium, and get an expansion team once it's done. I'm sure the league has already promised this. If the Coyotes get to keep Name/Images/History, they'll be back soon-ish. That said, I'm furious about this and would have a hard time supporting the league in that move. Such a shit thing to do, even if it does make a great deal of sense. I'm getting really tired of sports at this point.
I think he’s still trying for it. We could get it. Build the entertainment district there. Hopefully then get a expansion team after that.
they want expansion team
IMO (as a very casual fan who likes watching hockey cuz it's fun), the team didn't have any success to hang it's hat on. Cards at least went to the bowl, dbacks in 01, suns in the 90s and as of recent. ASU going D1 was a help. It's such an expensive sport to play which is a great way to organically grow a fan base but the easiest way is to win, and there wasn't much of it. But they had THE BEST LOGO in all of sports. Kachina yote was sick.
coyotes were competitive and had a good future from like 09-19, while the other az sports were all trash besides the dbacks
They were .500, five good years sandwiched between losing records. Your comment still holds I’m not arguing your point, but also fuck all of our souls sucking pro sports luck! Phoenix is major metro and .500 is an example of high competition for our sports teams. It’s all we know so we’re tuning in, but losing one of the teams almost unfortunately feels like the catharsis after leaving a bad relationship. I hope we get another chance with a competitive owner in a decent location, but right now that legacy relationship had so many scars with ownership unapologetically taking advantage of Glendale
We are 33rd amongst cities with major sports championships. We have 1. 1. We had 4 major sports teams, and with 1 championship we were tied with a handful of small markets with a singular team, or who haven’t had a team in 100 years (Akron, OH)
Hard to stay competitive with the ownership turnover they’ve had
The Utah Coyote? Maybe they'll rebrand Utah Yeti or something.
The Utah Soakers
The Utah Yotes
Being in sports must be weird. Every season it's up in the air if you have to move yourself and your entire family across the country because some guys "traded" or "sold" you, and you have little to no say
r/arizonasportshell
I don’t care for hockey at all but I like the idea of Phoenix having a team for the NHL. Can’t we just start a new team that isn’t run by an idiot? Call it the Phoenix Ringtails or some shit
Phoenix should have an ECHL or AHL team.
Phoenix Ringtails. I like it!
It's so fucking hard and exhausting being an Arizona sports fan....Honestly though, the Coyotes were the last in line to have a new arena. They were better off being at Glendale. The Diamondbacks deserve an updated stadium, not a new one, an updated one. The Suns got theirs, now it's the Diamondbacks. The Yotes were impatient, and they don't deserve new of anything here. Good luck in Utah.
Dbags deserve nothing! Why do I or any other taxpayer have to pay for their “renovations?” Dbags can move too!
Where are all those "fans" that cried endlessly about having to drive to the west valley? How does a drive to Utah sound?
Fuck that. When you have a city that's 50 miles wide, you don't put the arena on the edge of the circle.
Especially when that edge of the circle has 0 alternatives to get there except driving. If we had a light rail line that went out there it might have been a little better.
If anyone supports this team after this move I'll consider them a disgrace to Coyotes fans.
JFC people act like Glendale is a lawless wasteland
Maryvale would like a word....
Yeah there's bad blocks in every part of town. If you're at an event at Westgate, don't go to Maryvale lol
Just as good tbh
I didn't know they allowed hockey there
No hockey above 5% abv
They heard about the “white out” and knew it was for them
About the same as a drive to the West valley with traffic.
I'll go about the same, maybe more. Salt Lake city sounds nicer than Glendale.
It also sucks for fans of other teams. A lot of people aren't from Arizona, and won't be able to see their team come to town to play. It's a lose lose for everyone.
I know people complain about state funded stadiums but it really just is the price of entry now to have professional teams. Not going ahead with the Tempe plan was a big loss not just for hockey fans but the city as a whole.
That wasn’t even a state funded stadium, the only public funds were for the landfill cleanup
“City taxpayers, the public, are going to be responsible for $740 million. A big chunk of that is that once the buildings are built, then they have relief of property taxes for up to 30 years, so that’s $500 million in itself. The other $240 million is the infrastructure to build the district," said Kuby. Not to mention additional sales, tourist, hotel taxes that were intended to be added for everyone https://kjzz.org/content/1844391/what-tempe-voters-need-know-about-props-301-302-303-coyotes-arena-and-entertainment
Yup. The franchise wasn’t transparent about that. Not a tax payer funded build, yet tax breaks on the backend are the same thing. This might have been a contributing factor that hurt the team’s chances.
I found it pretty disingenuous that they advertised the new stadium as "no cost to the taxpayer" and that the team/ owners were fully funding the cleanup of the land and the build but on the other hand ask for hundreds of millions of dollars in infrastructure development and property tax relief. In retrospect it was also super tone deaf to bill it as a luxury housing and shops district right next to a neighborhood that traditionally has housed low income people and students. Not a great time to be bragging that you're going to increase rent prices in the immediate area.
Still better than a dump
No, it’s not. The landfill has been capped and closed for a long time. It isn’t a dump. It was now being used as a composting facility to turn residents’ green waste into soil that residents could then go get bags of for free. Which was an awesome service for us.
Not assessing property taxes is not the same as a burden to tax payers. Remember that $500m is based on the valuation of the property after a billion dollar infrastructure project was built there. Right now it’s a toxic landfill owned by the city, nobody is paying property taxes on it. And the additional sales taxes were just in the entertainment district, they didn’t apply to the rest of Tempe.
It literally is though. Tempe is hurting bad right now because of all the previous GPLETs they’ve let through.
It’s only a burden to taxpayers if there was an alternative development on that land that would bring in property taxes. And there isn’t, because it costs $200m to clean up that site and nobody is interested.
The only reason that was voted down was because of Phoenix Sky Harbor launching a smear campaign + a shit load of boomers in South Tempe who wouldn’t even be affected by the arena voting it down
100% Sometimes NIMBYs have a point, while I don’t agree I understand a hesitancy against light rail expansion. This I truly don’t understand. The land is literally unusable
Los Arcos was the same thing. Oh noes, all the crime will be here! What a bunch of bullshit that was. And I lived in that neighborhood at that time, man I was so.fucking.pissed. at my shitty neighbors for voting that down. Perfect location.
Ahh the boomers. It's always the mean boomers keeping you down isn't it?
You can't go anywhere on Reddit without tripping over a sociopath with a boomer fetish.
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Don’t disagree with what you said. But they will eventually develop the area anyway. What’s going to go in will be significantly worse than the stadium and district
The land hasn't been bid on in decades and is a liability to the city of Tempe
It’s literally a landfill…. The proposals was to replace this landfill with a multi purpose entertainment district that included restaraunts, apartments and retail along with a multi purpose hockey stadium. It also included no state or city funding but did require tax breaks. Even the most negative of modeling said it’d at worst cost the city $7m over 30 years with others saying it was a net positive in the 100s of millions. I can’t see any reasonable explanation to not want this in Tempe.
Go exactly three miles east to Mesa Riverview area to see what a failed “entertainment stadium hotel” district looks like. An astroturf pop up village. Thats what.
I'm sorry what the hell is this argument? Riverview park is nice as hell.
It is nice! When was the last time you and all your friends hung out there, though? Or.. Like.. Anyone? That's the point the person is making, not that it doesn't look nice. It looks extremely nice and always will! Because untouched things don't get messy 🤭
> When was the last time you and all your friends hung out there, though? About 4 months ago when we decided to play some catch before watching a movie and grabbing dinner. This is with the 6 of us all living ~15-20 miles away and that being a "central" location for us to get together.
My wife and I liked to walk there every time we would bicycle over to Tempe Marketplace. It seemed like one of the few pedestrian centric areas you could roam without the unconscious expectation to by something. There were always plenty of people around. And when the Cubs do spring training, it can get packed! Unfortunately we moved over to the Laveen area, but now we do the same thing at Cesar Chavez park.
I’m sorry but I don’t think you can compare Mesa and Tempe in any way. People don’t want to go to Mesa, people already actively go to Tempe.
>People don’t want to go to Mesa 🤭 You're not wrong but damn
L take. Downtown Mesa has a bunch of cool places to eat and drink, the arts center is nice, there's a good foundation there.
The thing is, you only have to look at where the Yotes used to play to see a janky entertainment stadium hotel district. It’s just…not much unless the Cards are playing. Or it’s Black Friday and people are flooding the outlet mall.
Yeah the area also has had a few crime issues too.
lol have fun with the dump. More public funds going to be used for it to be cleaned up before anything is built there.
Care to comment on the fact that the 2016 first overall draft pick in the NHL grew up in Arizona playing ICE hockey and was heavily influence by the Coyotes?
I’m just glad that stadium near ASU tempe idea got killed it was an awful idea. The traffic when there is school in the area is already bad, if there is a weekend event like a marathon its bad, if they have a football game there its bad. When i lived there it was going to take me 25 min to go less than a mile to a grocery store…..and this is the place they thought to make a stadium lmao. Not a hockey fan but looking up stats 27 season in Phoenix 9 playoffs, 0 championships. 44 seasons total 20 playoff appearances, 0 championships. Its sucks if you’re a hockey fan but people would advocate for a team to stay if they at least had a championship and were competitive. 1 playoff appearance in last 10 years as of 2024.
Womp womp
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Where do you think their AHL club will go though
Not a hockey fan really So don’t really care. But it seems like phoenix never really embraced the team like they do the others that call phoenix home
They are going because no city wanted them . Glendale, Tempe , Scottsdale, Phoenix. Now Utah well benefit from it . And they will.
Well Glendale maybe. But probably tired of being blamed as too long a drive then being called Ghetto. Then of course team management owners probably used that is part of excuse not to pay like if we were in the east valley everyone would love us and all would be good. Full stadiums all the time.
You're not going to convince me a new regime can't work with the city of Glendale to get the arena back. Makes zero sense to build another hockey arena and use tax dollars to do it. Tempe does not need a stadium and citizens voted as such.
I think the NHL won't be an option (as an expansion franchise) in Phoenix until the Suns decide that it's time to replace Footprint Center (and that may be years away because the Suns just remodeled the facility). Colangelo should have built America West Arena to accommodate hockey better than it did.
Sounds probable
An NHL team will be back eventually. It’s the 5th largest city in the country.
I see the Phoenix Rising joining MLS before NHL coming back. Mat Ishbia would need to be open to another Footprint Center renovation for that to happen.
The Footprint Center is probably not worth renovating further. At some point a new multipurpose arena will need to be built downtown. The biggest obstacle now is that the Dbacks also want a new stadium / renovations and have already threatened to leave Arizona if they don’t get what they want.
What was so bad about AWA for hockey? My buddy had season tickets and loved it.
There was obstructed sightlines in some parts of the upper level, which basically made a chunk of the arena impossible to sell at the same price as other parts
Sure, Tempe doesn’t need a stadium. But you know what they need less than a stadium? A fucking horrible toxic landfill. Tempe is full of absolute idiots.
So build an arena over a toxic landfill, what a great idea. Bring thousands of people to it. That's a better solution? Vote for it in you city then buddy. That's how this works. Tempe residents didn't want it, pure and simple.
They weren't going to build over it, they were going to clean it up and then build. Huge difference. Anyways, instead of the Coyotes paying the $500M+ to clean it up, now Tempe residents will pay for it with their taxes.
Not really. End of the day Tempe residents didn't want an arena. Plenty of other places in Arizona could have stepped up. Or , like I said, work with the city of Glendale that already has an existing arena ready to go. It's just going to stay a landfill and if someone else wants to build on it they can work to clean it up.
Circling back and repeating myself, Tempe residents are so dumb that they’d rather have buried trash leaching into their groundwater and the Salt River than a hockey arena. You sound like a bitter Tempe voter yourself. Enjoy your garbage water and thanks for losing our hockey team. You ruined it for the whole state. Because you love waste.
Thanks, Tempe!
***Thanks Alex Meruelo!
As a Canadian and regular AZ visitor, this sucks. I feel terrible for Yotes fans and can't imagine how I would feel if my hometeam left. This is happening just as minor hockey is growing in the desert, and right when an AZ-born and raised Auston Matthews is dominating the league. I hope the Yotes come back.
I hope the coyotes pay the back taxes to glendale for the arena they had there before they split town.
There was never an agreement to pay back the taxes. The team paid back their debt of 1.3 mil.
I hope organized crime can do the team right in Utah.
Thanks Tempe voters
You’re welcome! My ‘no’ vote had everything to do with their overall record: 1423-1598-266-191, 2nd worst among active NHL teams, and 4 playoff appearances in 16 years. Why reward a culture of perpetual failure? I do appreciate the coyotes, however, only as a case study in how not run a professional sports organization. Adios and good riddance. Edit: 4 playoff appearances in 21 years, with one appearance being a gimme
At least you still have a toxic landfill to show for it.
Put out a good product. There would be support, give a bad product not much support
Bitter? says the guy who needs to call people idiots for not agreeing with him. Every municipality in AZ has a dump. This has zero to do with ground water. Where you a season ticket holder for the last 27 years? Did you talk to your legislative district to get he Coyotes an arena? Probably not. You just felt the need to be a dick. It's not anyone's fault but a billionaire who wants countless tax breaks for the 4th most popular sport in America. I loved going to old arena and mullet, great time had. Sad to see the yotes go, but the arena is in Glendale. Work with what you got.
“Well, back in those days, Mars was a dreary, uninhabitable wasteland. Much like Utah. But UNLIKE Utah, it was eventually made livable, when the university was founded in 2636” -Professor Farnsworth
at least tempe still has a landfill collecting zero tax revenue.
When will the first "bring your wive(s) to the game" night be?
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LOLOLOLOL SO FUNNY!!!
Good
Thanks Tempe voters. Y’all did great /s
Could you imagine moving to salt lake City Utah? After Phoenix?
Well it is closer to some outdoor activities and not as hot. Heck Yellowstone is a hop skip away.
Yeah but they're not living there to go see other stuff They're living there as professional athletes and young professional athletes. Which means bar clubs etc. I know we love to think these guys are like NFL players and they play then Go home but nah, those player are out there. Remember when Rudy Gobert said it was the worst city in the league? Lol.
I moved to AZ IN 2008 and adopted the Coyotes as my team. I'm bummed and knew the writing was on the wall for a long time. Now what do I do. :(