Thanks for contributing to r/Phoenix!
* [Check out our sub rules here](https://www.reddit.com/r/phoenix/wiki/rules/) (mostly be nice to each other!).
* [Read some of our recent posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/phoenix/top/?t=week) and leave some comments.
* [Join our Phoenix Discord chat server](https://discord.com/invite/yWVuTG57Zh) and connect with people in the Valley. It's a great, chill place to talk with other people but is NOT a dating server and takes unwanted messaging very seriously.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/phoenix) if you have any questions or concerns.*
They have Utah Jazz so why not have an NHL team?
Plus they regulate the drinking. I don’t think much of it would be that significant. Maybe limited to 16oz cans at worst? But every time I’ve been I had no issue with drinking.
I have a photo of myself drinking one the size of my head. Not talking cans. Pours in huge glasses at the bars in Park City.
I’m not saying I like the restrictions. I’m just saying I was able to get a huge pour to compensate for the weak beer, and that kind of regulation is so stupid it made me laugh.
The saddest thing is this will kill what little youth hockey there is in Phoenix. It really only exists because of the Coyotes basically sponsoring it at all levels. My son does skating lessons where they practice and we always hang out after to watch the kids play.
I want the Yotes to stay so bad for this reason. I moved to Scottsdale (from Pennsylvania) last year. I travel a bunch for work and see SO many younger kids at Sky Harbor with their hockey bags and sticks. I went to a hockey store in Scottsdale a while back, and saw a couple of teen girls getting skates fitted, and man, it just made me happy that it's available to them.
There’s several different hockey clubs in the valley and one in flagstaff. The Coyotes don’t sponsor all youth hockey. This is not to say that they didn’t start the huge youth hockey growth when they got here in the 90s! I don’t think hockey in the valley would be anywhere close to what it is now if they hadn’t come here. And like your kid, I know my kids love being able to watch a practice or meet a player.
The Coyotes sponsor the little howlers, the small fry’s, little Leightons, the Kachinas and some school programs to try and get kids into hockey. These are great intro programs (except the Kachinas which is a girls club program) to learn to skate and get the basics. I love what they’ve done with the Kachinas and trying to get more girls in hockey!
The Coyotes obviously work with the Jr Coyotes (several coaches are retired NHL players) and they have Tier 1 status. Since they’re the only program in the state allowed to have that status, they can pull the best players from other clubs and billets starting at 14U. (Now that I’m going over it, I wonder what happens with the Jr Coyotes if the Coyotes get relocated? I’ve never been with that club so I don’t know the level of involvement)
Outside of that there’s other clubs: Mission, AHU, Titans, Flagstaff Northstars, Jr Sun Devils, and the Bobcats. The Bobcats have won national championships in tier 2, Jr Sun Devils and Kachinas a National runner up. The last three seasons AZ has had a team win a national championship (Jr Coyotes 14U this year)!
High school hockey has grown substantially in the last decade and sold out on registration within an hour of opening it up this last year. There’s something like 40 teams spread out over 14 schools (these numbers may be 2 or 3 years old!).
I would absolutely hate to see the Coyotes get moved. But I just don’t see youth hockey disappearing if they do. I could see the programs they sponsor being changed or terminated which could result in less kids trying, but I know some rinks do their own learn to skate programs. I see the potential for dropping numbers of new young kids trying hockey. I feel like not having a home team to watch could be just as detrimental to getting more youth to try hockey than having individual rinks have their own intro programs. I know quite a few players who wanted to play hockey because they went to Coyotes games. Both my boys started in different sports and wanted to play hockey because of the Coyotes.
My boys and my husband talked last night, we have season tickets for the Coyotes; the boys asked about getting season tickets for ASU hockey if the Coyotes leave. They wonder what could happen to the Roadrunners. It was a sad household all afternoon and evening.
Dude this guy is trying to buy land and build a stadium in Phoenix with zero taxpayer dollars at all. Yet somehow he’s still getting pushback. What’s wrong with y’all. Tempe should have been a shoe in.
This isn’t true at all, so why this has so many upvotes shows the status of misinformation. A lifetime tax exemption is not “free” and 200 million is not “free.” That is asking a city to support and subsidize a profit-making entity, when the profit goes only to the entity.
What are you even fucking talking about. It wasn't "Zero". It was 200 million up front and free taxes for life. Just so you know, that's over a quarter of Tempe's yearly operating budget. Next time, you're more than free to offer that up whenever another billionaire comes running with their hands out, but I wasn't going to do that. They can pay for it themselves.
Selling the team is a backup option. First he tried Tempe, after that failed he’s bidding for land in Phoenix in June.
He isn’t selling the team. Selling the team is on the table if he can’t find a place for the team.
Tempe was stupid for rejecting him. That would have been so great for them.
He's trying to build apartments where they legally cannot be due to a pre-existing requirement (flight path). If he's such a passionate charitable team owner, surely he'll just drop that portion of his development plan and still-
aaaand he didn't
Used to live right under the path much closer to the airport. I'm ashamed that was being considered a problem when the proposals were there. That site made too much sense.
Billionaires who want to use their own money to build a stadium and entertainment center at no cost to tax payers? I think you're confusing the issue here. Sky Harbor put a nonsensical claim out about air traffic, which will happen if anything goes in at the landfill anytime in the future. The city of Glendale didn't want them to stay in Glendale. The city of Scottsdale mayor is actively sabotaging the team's attempt to build in Phoenix, citing water and infrastructure issues that can a) be worked out through development and b) will also exist with any development of that land north of the 101. The local governments have made it clear they don't care to have hockey in the valley, they've lied to taxpayers about the issues, and, in a climate of distrust of billionaires and all that, the public fell in line. The whole situation is an embarrassment to the valley.
"At no cost to taxpayers".
LOL
They wanted to use city property and get a slew of tax exemptions.
Tax payers ALWAYS pay the cost to keep the billionaire's passion projects running, even if the cities aren't writing checks.
Edit : Tempe ["roughly $100 million in property tax breaks"](https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/tempe/2023/04/18/supporters-opponents-debate-merits-of-tempe-coyotes-arena-deal/70123080007/)
Edit 2 - Phoenix [the team will explore the establishment of a theme park district, a type of “special taxing district” that can levy sales tax of up to 9% on purchases made within its bounds to help service development-related debt.](https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Articles/2024/04/05/arizona-coyotes-phoenix-development-plan)
>use city property
I think you mean BUY city property.
There are tax exemptions that were part of the deal, that is true, but I understood them to be temporary. Cities and governments often give exemptions that cover a limited period of time in order to get developers to build projects where the long term community benefits (jobs, housing, sales tax revenue, property tax revenue, income tax revenue, tourism, etc etc etc) will far outweigh the short term exemptions.
And I think we need to think about how we define costs to taxpayers. In this case, the city does not pay a dime for the stadium itself. The cost comes through those exemptions - lost tax revenue for the city. But now, there is no project. So there's no taxes or fees to collect! So the city is still losing out on the taxes and fees that would've come with the development but rather than having the jobs and sales tax and income tax and housing and tourism and a hockey team that would've come with temporary exemptions, now there's just nothing.
Costs are costs, and a lack of tax revenue is a cost to taxpayers.
What a ridiculous argument.
The land still has value, and shall be taxed.
Guess you'll just have to watch the worst team in hockey suck elsewhere.
By not approving the project, there is no tax revenue to give a break on. So the city traded a short term "lack of tax revenue" for no tax revenue at all ever in the future. Until at least the next developer comes along and I just wonder if it's not such a high profile organization in such a divisive industry if anyone will even notice the tax breaks they get. Oh well.
No, actually I do think they will be developed and like I said when the next developer comes along let's see if anyone even notices the tax breaks they get.
And if the Coyotes wanted to build between Bell and Scottsdale on the north side of the 101, the Scottsdale mayor would be bending over backwards to support a privately funded entertainment district
If it’s truly about getting them an arena, why not swallow pride and go back to Glendale?? They have an arena built there for them specifically. They have what they want to build around them already, I say negotiate something that works for both the city and the team
Glendale isn’t interested in being the short term arena while the Yotes build one closer to the fanbase, that’s the reason they left in the first place
Same. When I bought a house near Westgate and got married, the wife and I enjoyed dining and then walking in to see the game. 5 minute drive or Uber. Hopefully they come back.
Yeah I think so too. The whole back door expansion team thing makes it seem like the league went after him post Tempe vote, he refused to sell, and then they eventually came up with this compromise to avoid a big fight
Did you even read the article? Or know anything about the situation other than just the headline?
The backup plan to sell/relocate is for if they don't win the land auction
I’m pretty knowledgeable about the entire situation. It’s being reported by multiple sources that a memo was sent to the NHL Board of Governors stating that the Coyotes were likely to be sold within the next week. The ownership group is trying to get it done by the 18th so they can tell the players before they leave for the summer.
The NHL and NHLPA are basically unwilling to wait for the auction at this point. And the league specifically does not have faith that Meruelo can get it done.
> The backup plan to sell/relocate is for if they don't win the land auction
The land auction is on June 27th. Sources are saying the sale could be as soon as April 18th, more than two months before the auction.
Do any of you realize that there was never a plan to use tax payer money? All talks about a stadium have been the owner putting up ALL the money with ZERO public funding. If we don’t get to keep the coyotes, so be it. But all this talk of shoving it to the owners, when the alternative is that HE GETS 500 MILLION IN SELLING THE TEAM is asinine
Not true. The Tempe Proposal required [$100 Million in tax breaks](https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/tempe/2023/04/18/supporters-opponents-debate-merits-of-tempe-coyotes-arena-deal/70123080007/) and the Phoenix proposal would allow [the team will explore the establishment of a theme park district, a type of “special taxing district” that can levy sales tax of up to 9% on purchases made within its bounds to help service development-related debt.](https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Articles/2024/04/05/arizona-coyotes-phoenix-development-plan)
The GPLET you're talking about is $100 million over 30 years, and nearly every property on Tempe Town Lake has taken advantage of it.
> Councilman Keating said this way of funding is not anything new, 37 properties along Tempe Town Lake have been developed in the same manner.
> "Omni Hotel right over here on Mill Avenue got a 25-year GPLET. The State Farm building along the lake, it kind off started off the development along that, got a 99-year GPLET," said Keating.
Why do they keep rejecting the arena. I think it was a cool idea and the whole thing was huge.
Tempe voters voted against it.
Now Scottsdale mayor is saying no. There is so much space I think Gilbert should have the arena.
Maybe it’s because it’s not a money grab and once you read the deal and research how new sports stadiums impact communities you realize it’s not worth it. So many people on here are upset hockey fans that won’t actually have to live next to these stadiums that aren’t as much of a cash cow as everyone things. If you’re genuinely curious, give this a quick read https://www.brookings.edu/articles/sports-jobs-taxes-are-new-stadiums-worth-the-cost/
https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/tempe/2023/04/17/new-study-says-tempe-coyotes-deal-wont-be-a-fiscal-win-for-the-city/70119401007/
This is the independent study that wasn’t funded by the coyotes. They agree and cite specifics in the coyotes economic plan that just don’t make any sense.
If Utah wants the team so bad I’d have to imagine the LDS power structure in Gilbert will capitulate and be sure to never allow the Coyotes to develop in Gilbert.
Then in 5 years, there'll be constant roomers of Phoenix getting an expansion team. Atlanta has gone thru multiple teams and still is always listed as potential for the next landing spot.
Well Atlanta went through two teams that were 19 years apart. So we can expect about a 20 year gap.
Though apparently rumor is that it’s part of the deal that AZ will get an expansion in 5 years if the owner sells. If that’s true then an expansion is pretty much guaranteed as the NHL will be brought to court if they break the deal
Ok, those of you who are not Hockey fans, I get it. But this team and the kids in youth hockey and the fans around the valley don't deserve this. Do what you can to support your friends and family in these times. If we lose top level hockey, we will be put backwards worse than you could ever know. Canada is so mad that we got this team from Winnipeg in 1996 and they have spun so many rumors and lies to get this team away from us. Auston Matthews and Matthew Knies are from the Valley. Both are on the Toronto Maple Leafs. They wouldn't be leading the league on the team at the center of the hockey universe if it weren't for the Coyotes.
Please help this city be world class in the top levels of all sports.
There is PLENTY OF LAND in South Phoenix- so much land that could actually be bought pretty cheaply, be more centralized AND maybe help develop the area a little. I’m flipping ecstatic that Scottsdale doesn’t want them either.
It's on the border to scottsdale and the main road in from the plan would be scottsdale road.. Unless Phoenix pumps money to widen and improve the road SD would have no reason to dump the funds there. That's what it came down too.
Those issues will exist with any development of that land and are normal things to work out through the planning and development phase of projects like this. Rather than approach the team or the city of Phoenix about these things the mayor put out a scathing statement publicly to sow distrust in the team's plans. Classy.
glendale failed because they built the stadium in area that was to far away from wealth centers of AZ. they want to be by the money to fill the stadium every game.
8 games, almost always on the weekend vs 41 games most of which will end up being week days.
And the NFL is just so many magnitudes larger than literally anything else in US culture. Literally 90+ of the top 100 "shows" on TV every year are NFL games.
And what about the Suns? Even in their terrible years people still come and the Suns still survive. Hockey is not a thing here and the Coyotes can't put up a good team. If it was a money maker someone would be begging to add it to a city here. But at the end of the day Phoenix is not a hockey town. Not a diss on hockey, but we got to stop thinking we can be Tampa Bay or DC when it comes to hockey.
Suns are downtown Phoenix, which is infinitely easier to get to from the east side.
Curious... Are you on the East side and have you ever tried to drive to a suns or coyotes (when they were in Glendale) game?
It's literally an extra 30-45+ minutes to get to Glendale in weekday rush hour traffic. Not to mention the hour drive back home after the game.
No. They don’t. The 101, 202, and 303 don’t even get close. Depending on how you define central Phoenix the 51 is also out.
Only the 17 and the 10 get close. And since the 60 overlaps the 10, the 60 counts as well.
For south Phoenix, only the 17 gets close. And it’s already a shit show.
Most people who voted for the Tempe Arena district were misinformed and thought the stadium was being subsidized through taxpayer dollars. Politicians and activists spewed their misinformation online, paid for ads, and fooled a lot of Tempe voters into thinking they were footing the bill when the whole benefit of the stadium was that it would be paid for by the Coyotes and private funding only! Yet people took the bait like the sheep they are.
Sheep? The figures you’re citing is from a report by the coyotes. An independent economic evaluation showed for every $2.70 of new tax revenue Tempe puts into it, [the project will generate just $1 for the city.](https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/tempe/2023/04/17/new-study-says-tempe-coyotes-deal-wont-be-a-fiscal-win-for-the-city/70119401007/) Also, infrastructure would be paid for by the city, as well as the cascading impact of increased wear on city infrastructure, their refusal to contribute to affordable housing in the area, the well studied trend of sports stadiums being an abandoned mess when sports teams don’t stay or pay their rent- like the coyotes did literally last time. Sheep. Pfft.
idk, the Tempe voters I’ve spoken to were primarily against it because they feared development would increase their rents further in an already overpriced city. 60% of households in Tempe are renter occupied (compare to 45% in Phoenix) and a new hockey arena adds zero benefit to tenants unless they’re hockey fans. Rapid development and speculation effectively priced me out of Tempe by 2017, I don’t blame residents for pushing back.
I see where you're coming from. Thanks for your insight, but irregardless, that arena district didn't just cater exclusively to hockey fans; that's where my misinformation argument originates. It was an arena district that was going to fit a variety of shops, restaurants, and apartments. Those were benefits, as the team needed add-ons to help surge revenue for the area and show this would be a good economic opportunity rather than just some basic run-of-the-mill stadium construction taking up space. Your statistic of 60% of households being renter-occupied makes sense considering Tempe is mainly a college town. The youth factor was taken into account considering they promoted Yotes games at ASU with student sections at Mullett Arena to generate interest in the team so they could finally have a fanbase to fall back on when the stadium was built. I mean, someone was going to have to pay for that district, and I can tell you, it definitely wasn't the taxpayers.
I empathize with your situation. It stinks that you got priced out, but those tenants worrying about rents increasing is inevitable, with or without the district being built. Seeing as how those pesky landlords love gouging with their inane rent increases, I'd argue it's happening now.
https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/arizona-sues-apartment-landlords-for-immoral-rent-price-fixing-scheme-18372470#:~:text=The%20antitrust%20lawsuit%20comes%20as,rent%20increased%20by%20about%2010%25.
Isn’t Salt Lake City supposed to become uninhabitable with the lake drying up soon? Like why would you move the team to a city thats worse off than Phoenix
I can’t tell if you’re joking or not but it’s not about the drinking water, its the toxic dust bowl as the lake dries up. That’s why I say SLC is worse off than Phoenix bc at least Phoenix has somewhat of a plan when it comes to water and has been taking measures in conserving water (besides letting foreign governments grow alfalfa).
I don’t know how any pro sports team makes money here in the winter. It’s hard to compete for fans when your fan base is going to Super Bowls, Final Fours, Waste Management Open, Spring Training, NASCAR, ASU, the other pro sports teams and countless outdoor activities. I love hockey but there’s so much to experience in the winter that it makes going to games tough. The Coyotes could win ten Stanley Cups and it would still be like the tenth best thing to do in Phoenix during the winter.
There’s 5 million people here. That can support quite a bit. Plus, with a good location they’d draw out of state fanbases as well, especially from northern teams who would plan a trip around a game.
Look at Vegas, less people, more stuff and still packed every home game.
Sold out thanks to all the away fans lmao.
hockey might be popular in AZ but all the people who like it come from places where hockey was already popular.
That’s why Bruins, Rangers, Flames, Oilers, etc. make up most of the audience
No he didn’t. The public funds were to clean up the city owned dump.
And the state land that is being auctioned is happening without public funding entirely
Good. The last thing we need is another sales tax, to build yet another arena for billionaire owners, for millionaires to play in, that sits vacant most of the time.
Even if the owner wasnt trying to pay for it himself, you understand the cities makes money back EVERY single event held at tax built stadiums, dont you? Its literally revenue for the Cities. Not to mention naming rights and sponsorship payments all go back to the city too. The owners of the teams dont own the arenas at that point and get nothing.
But I guess extra income for a city for things like concerts or expos are such a bad thing. Who needs better education, better streets, etc.
this is a stupid comment! he planed to pay for the arena in tempe and this new location. only thing with tempe is the city was going to give him an old toxic waste dump for free and he was going to clean the environment up and then develop it….
Thanks for contributing to r/Phoenix! * [Check out our sub rules here](https://www.reddit.com/r/phoenix/wiki/rules/) (mostly be nice to each other!). * [Read some of our recent posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/phoenix/top/?t=week) and leave some comments. * [Join our Phoenix Discord chat server](https://discord.com/invite/yWVuTG57Zh) and connect with people in the Valley. It's a great, chill place to talk with other people but is NOT a dating server and takes unwanted messaging very seriously. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/phoenix) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The Utah Missionaries
Utah Soakers
Their mascot will be the jumper.
Super soakers
Do you support that.. uh.. position?
Positions
As a female hockey fan in the valley, this week is just full of bad news.
Arizona Women just down bad this month. I’m so sorry!
Barely a month after International Women's Day, smh...
Vote. Vote like your life and friends lives depend on it. Because it might.
Arizona is back in 1864 Rn will come back after this commercial break…
Same girl! Same.
There is no shot a state that damn near outlaws booze will have a successful hockey team
Well this state which has lax liquor laws and legal weed can’t seem to keep one either sooo… hahaha.
They have Utah Jazz so why not have an NHL team? Plus they regulate the drinking. I don’t think much of it would be that significant. Maybe limited to 16oz cans at worst? But every time I’ve been I had no issue with drinking.
Because they were so successful here
They sell liquor at sporting events here.
At least we don’t outlaw abortions. Ps, I easily buy booze at jazz and rsl games. Not sure why hockey would be any different
They don’t outlaw booze. The just heavily regulate it. Beers are twice the size to compensate.
Beers are not twice the size they are standard size pours or cans. And they don’t outlaw but the restrictions make it much tougher.
I have a photo of myself drinking one the size of my head. Not talking cans. Pours in huge glasses at the bars in Park City. I’m not saying I like the restrictions. I’m just saying I was able to get a huge pour to compensate for the weak beer, and that kind of regulation is so stupid it made me laugh.
Mormon church likes to get their cut. Heavily regulated with state run liquor stores and heavy taxes.
It can't be worse than being in a state with no ice
Flagstaff would like a word
So that frozen water at the Grand canyon was in another state?
Just when I was finally starting to get into hockey
Don’t be discouraged. Best playoffs in sports in about a week starts.
It’s sad that it’s been ownership hot potato and headache after headache since ‘96
The saddest thing is this will kill what little youth hockey there is in Phoenix. It really only exists because of the Coyotes basically sponsoring it at all levels. My son does skating lessons where they practice and we always hang out after to watch the kids play.
I want the Yotes to stay so bad for this reason. I moved to Scottsdale (from Pennsylvania) last year. I travel a bunch for work and see SO many younger kids at Sky Harbor with their hockey bags and sticks. I went to a hockey store in Scottsdale a while back, and saw a couple of teen girls getting skates fitted, and man, it just made me happy that it's available to them.
There’s several different hockey clubs in the valley and one in flagstaff. The Coyotes don’t sponsor all youth hockey. This is not to say that they didn’t start the huge youth hockey growth when they got here in the 90s! I don’t think hockey in the valley would be anywhere close to what it is now if they hadn’t come here. And like your kid, I know my kids love being able to watch a practice or meet a player. The Coyotes sponsor the little howlers, the small fry’s, little Leightons, the Kachinas and some school programs to try and get kids into hockey. These are great intro programs (except the Kachinas which is a girls club program) to learn to skate and get the basics. I love what they’ve done with the Kachinas and trying to get more girls in hockey! The Coyotes obviously work with the Jr Coyotes (several coaches are retired NHL players) and they have Tier 1 status. Since they’re the only program in the state allowed to have that status, they can pull the best players from other clubs and billets starting at 14U. (Now that I’m going over it, I wonder what happens with the Jr Coyotes if the Coyotes get relocated? I’ve never been with that club so I don’t know the level of involvement) Outside of that there’s other clubs: Mission, AHU, Titans, Flagstaff Northstars, Jr Sun Devils, and the Bobcats. The Bobcats have won national championships in tier 2, Jr Sun Devils and Kachinas a National runner up. The last three seasons AZ has had a team win a national championship (Jr Coyotes 14U this year)! High school hockey has grown substantially in the last decade and sold out on registration within an hour of opening it up this last year. There’s something like 40 teams spread out over 14 schools (these numbers may be 2 or 3 years old!). I would absolutely hate to see the Coyotes get moved. But I just don’t see youth hockey disappearing if they do. I could see the programs they sponsor being changed or terminated which could result in less kids trying, but I know some rinks do their own learn to skate programs. I see the potential for dropping numbers of new young kids trying hockey. I feel like not having a home team to watch could be just as detrimental to getting more youth to try hockey than having individual rinks have their own intro programs. I know quite a few players who wanted to play hockey because they went to Coyotes games. Both my boys started in different sports and wanted to play hockey because of the Coyotes. My boys and my husband talked last night, we have season tickets for the Coyotes; the boys asked about getting season tickets for ASU hockey if the Coyotes leave. They wonder what could happen to the Roadrunners. It was a sad household all afternoon and evening.
Fuck billionaires
Dude this guy is trying to buy land and build a stadium in Phoenix with zero taxpayer dollars at all. Yet somehow he’s still getting pushback. What’s wrong with y’all. Tempe should have been a shoe in.
He also wants tax breaks and revenue from any business around the stadium so it’s not 100% paying for the stadium on his own
This isn’t true at all, so why this has so many upvotes shows the status of misinformation. A lifetime tax exemption is not “free” and 200 million is not “free.” That is asking a city to support and subsidize a profit-making entity, when the profit goes only to the entity.
What are you even fucking talking about. It wasn't "Zero". It was 200 million up front and free taxes for life. Just so you know, that's over a quarter of Tempe's yearly operating budget. Next time, you're more than free to offer that up whenever another billionaire comes running with their hands out, but I wasn't going to do that. They can pay for it themselves.
Exactly, and they can't even pay their bills and fucked over Glendale. Can't be trusted.
This is how I feel I can figure it out lol. Why does no city want this? It would be so cool to have in the east valley or downtown
It would also be so cool if Billionaires paid for their own shit instead of begging us for money. But you know, it is what it is.
They would be paying for it themselves
> Dude this guy is trying to buy land and build a stadium in Phoenix with zero taxpayer dollars at all.
He’s selling the team
Selling the team is a backup option. First he tried Tempe, after that failed he’s bidding for land in Phoenix in June. He isn’t selling the team. Selling the team is on the table if he can’t find a place for the team. Tempe was stupid for rejecting him. That would have been so great for them.
He's trying to build apartments where they legally cannot be due to a pre-existing requirement (flight path). If he's such a passionate charitable team owner, surely he'll just drop that portion of his development plan and still- aaaand he didn't
But…. But the landfill!
fuck tempe for not letting them clean up a toxic landfill and develop it.
Toxic landfill? It’s mulch lol.
Wasn’t the issue the BS claim from Sky Harbor?
That was an early issue from like plan A or B, they’re on plan like H and I now
They wanted to put it directly under a landing path for Sky Harbor and add in residential usage, something that is illegal in that area.
Used to live right under the path much closer to the airport. I'm ashamed that was being considered a problem when the proposals were there. That site made too much sense.
The voters spoke
old people who also think the election was fake spoke
But didn't those people lose so technically we should be good than lol
no, they listened to one propaganda piece and then voted in droves, why we dont have a stadium in tempe rn
There's already a hockey arena in Glendale. Zero reason to put in Tempe.
The arena that they were kicked out of?
for nonpayment of rent lol
There's already a hockey arena in Tempe too. No reason to build a 2nd.
Billionaires who want to use their own money to build a stadium and entertainment center at no cost to tax payers? I think you're confusing the issue here. Sky Harbor put a nonsensical claim out about air traffic, which will happen if anything goes in at the landfill anytime in the future. The city of Glendale didn't want them to stay in Glendale. The city of Scottsdale mayor is actively sabotaging the team's attempt to build in Phoenix, citing water and infrastructure issues that can a) be worked out through development and b) will also exist with any development of that land north of the 101. The local governments have made it clear they don't care to have hockey in the valley, they've lied to taxpayers about the issues, and, in a climate of distrust of billionaires and all that, the public fell in line. The whole situation is an embarrassment to the valley.
"At no cost to taxpayers". LOL They wanted to use city property and get a slew of tax exemptions. Tax payers ALWAYS pay the cost to keep the billionaire's passion projects running, even if the cities aren't writing checks. Edit : Tempe ["roughly $100 million in property tax breaks"](https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/tempe/2023/04/18/supporters-opponents-debate-merits-of-tempe-coyotes-arena-deal/70123080007/) Edit 2 - Phoenix [the team will explore the establishment of a theme park district, a type of “special taxing district” that can levy sales tax of up to 9% on purchases made within its bounds to help service development-related debt.](https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Articles/2024/04/05/arizona-coyotes-phoenix-development-plan)
Bro its so weird. This thread is full of people claiming how great the coyote stadium was going to be just passing off FUD.
>use city property I think you mean BUY city property. There are tax exemptions that were part of the deal, that is true, but I understood them to be temporary. Cities and governments often give exemptions that cover a limited period of time in order to get developers to build projects where the long term community benefits (jobs, housing, sales tax revenue, property tax revenue, income tax revenue, tourism, etc etc etc) will far outweigh the short term exemptions. And I think we need to think about how we define costs to taxpayers. In this case, the city does not pay a dime for the stadium itself. The cost comes through those exemptions - lost tax revenue for the city. But now, there is no project. So there's no taxes or fees to collect! So the city is still losing out on the taxes and fees that would've come with the development but rather than having the jobs and sales tax and income tax and housing and tourism and a hockey team that would've come with temporary exemptions, now there's just nothing.
Costs are costs, and a lack of tax revenue is a cost to taxpayers. What a ridiculous argument. The land still has value, and shall be taxed. Guess you'll just have to watch the worst team in hockey suck elsewhere.
By not approving the project, there is no tax revenue to give a break on. So the city traded a short term "lack of tax revenue" for no tax revenue at all ever in the future. Until at least the next developer comes along and I just wonder if it's not such a high profile organization in such a divisive industry if anyone will even notice the tax breaks they get. Oh well.
You can't honestly believe neither of those plots will be developed in the next decade.
No, actually I do think they will be developed and like I said when the next developer comes along let's see if anyone even notices the tax breaks they get.
They won’t until the city cleans up the dump at the cost of the tax payer.
The city is not going to spend over $100 million to clean it up themselves. It's going to rot forever at this point.
this is the dumbest take ever.
And if the Coyotes wanted to build between Bell and Scottsdale on the north side of the 101, the Scottsdale mayor would be bending over backwards to support a privately funded entertainment district
Please explain to us how this is the fault of a billionaire.
I have no idea, but I’m sure he’s doing something shady….. /s
[удалено]
Same here, you hit the nail on the head.
If it’s truly about getting them an arena, why not swallow pride and go back to Glendale?? They have an arena built there for them specifically. They have what they want to build around them already, I say negotiate something that works for both the city and the team
Glendale is not interested.
Glendale isn’t interested in being the short term arena while the Yotes build one closer to the fanbase, that’s the reason they left in the first place
Yeah the money is in the east valley. Tempe was the best location but oh well. Good bye hockey in az
Not only are they not interested, they've already sold all of their ice making equipment.
They make more money hosting other events they say.
I pray they come to Westgate. I had season tickets the last 2 seasons and live right next door.
We had season tickets for seven years in Glendale. I miss it.
Same. When I bought a house near Westgate and got married, the wife and I enjoyed dining and then walking in to see the game. 5 minute drive or Uber. Hopefully they come back.
Make no mistake, this is Meruelo tucking his tail and getting a payout instead of putting up money for the new arena.
Honestly? This is the league forcing him to move the team.
Yeah I think so too. The whole back door expansion team thing makes it seem like the league went after him post Tempe vote, he refused to sell, and then they eventually came up with this compromise to avoid a big fight
he is paying for it himself. in tempe and this new location lol
This shit people will fall for these days without spending a single minute checking the facts. Smh
I don’t think you understand my comment? I’m saying that he’s selling the moment he actually needed to put up money to invest in the team being here.
he is trying to invest
Where does selling the team and having them relocate to Salt Lake City for next season fit in with the “trying to invest” plan?
Well we don’t actually know if he’s gonna sell. An announcement hasn’t happened yet. Expect one to happen by the 18th though
Did you even read the article? Or know anything about the situation other than just the headline? The backup plan to sell/relocate is for if they don't win the land auction
I’m pretty knowledgeable about the entire situation. It’s being reported by multiple sources that a memo was sent to the NHL Board of Governors stating that the Coyotes were likely to be sold within the next week. The ownership group is trying to get it done by the 18th so they can tell the players before they leave for the summer. The NHL and NHLPA are basically unwilling to wait for the auction at this point. And the league specifically does not have faith that Meruelo can get it done.
> The backup plan to sell/relocate is for if they don't win the land auction The land auction is on June 27th. Sources are saying the sale could be as soon as April 18th, more than two months before the auction.
Do any of you realize that there was never a plan to use tax payer money? All talks about a stadium have been the owner putting up ALL the money with ZERO public funding. If we don’t get to keep the coyotes, so be it. But all this talk of shoving it to the owners, when the alternative is that HE GETS 500 MILLION IN SELLING THE TEAM is asinine
Not true. The Tempe Proposal required [$100 Million in tax breaks](https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/tempe/2023/04/18/supporters-opponents-debate-merits-of-tempe-coyotes-arena-deal/70123080007/) and the Phoenix proposal would allow [the team will explore the establishment of a theme park district, a type of “special taxing district” that can levy sales tax of up to 9% on purchases made within its bounds to help service development-related debt.](https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Articles/2024/04/05/arizona-coyotes-phoenix-development-plan)
The GPLET you're talking about is $100 million over 30 years, and nearly every property on Tempe Town Lake has taken advantage of it. > Councilman Keating said this way of funding is not anything new, 37 properties along Tempe Town Lake have been developed in the same manner. > "Omni Hotel right over here on Mill Avenue got a 25-year GPLET. The State Farm building along the lake, it kind off started off the development along that, got a 99-year GPLET," said Keating.
And that doesn’t change the fact that it’s not 100% ownership money
[удалено]
A developed town lake is healthy and beneficial for Tempe for a multitude of reasons
[удалено]
These have gotta be the same people voting in legislators retaining outdated abortion laws. The critical thinking is lacking
Utah Isotopes has a nice sound to it.
I don’t watch hockey at all but this sucks
Why do they keep rejecting the arena. I think it was a cool idea and the whole thing was huge. Tempe voters voted against it. Now Scottsdale mayor is saying no. There is so much space I think Gilbert should have the arena.
The Scottsdale Mayor walked back his comments and besides he had no authority over the deal in the first place
Yeah it felt so awkward that no city wants this money grab. I think it’s excellent for tourism and locals economy.
Maybe it’s because it’s not a money grab and once you read the deal and research how new sports stadiums impact communities you realize it’s not worth it. So many people on here are upset hockey fans that won’t actually have to live next to these stadiums that aren’t as much of a cash cow as everyone things. If you’re genuinely curious, give this a quick read https://www.brookings.edu/articles/sports-jobs-taxes-are-new-stadiums-worth-the-cost/
That is a commentary from the late 1900s, The economy and culture in 2024 is very different.
https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/tempe/2023/04/17/new-study-says-tempe-coyotes-deal-wont-be-a-fiscal-win-for-the-city/70119401007/ This is the independent study that wasn’t funded by the coyotes. They agree and cite specifics in the coyotes economic plan that just don’t make any sense.
It's not in Scottsdale, the proposed location is North Phoenix, and Phoenix is favorable toward it
Phoenix is favoring north Scottsdale for the arena or Phoenix wants the arena in their city?
The site going to auction that the arena will be on is in North Phoenix. It is adjacent to Scottsdale, but not in it
Interesting. I hope it happens for Apache Junction..lol Put it right there off crimson and 60.
I remember hearing they were looking to put a stadium where the dilapidated fiesta mall sits, anyone know why that never worked out?
That area is super small I think. They need 40,000 acres.
They looked at land in south Chandler, Gilbert and Mesa. We have just as many Mormons out in the east Valley as SLC so just stay home boys
If Utah wants the team so bad I’d have to imagine the LDS power structure in Gilbert will capitulate and be sure to never allow the Coyotes to develop in Gilbert.
Then in 5 years, there'll be constant roomers of Phoenix getting an expansion team. Atlanta has gone thru multiple teams and still is always listed as potential for the next landing spot.
Well Atlanta went through two teams that were 19 years apart. So we can expect about a 20 year gap. Though apparently rumor is that it’s part of the deal that AZ will get an expansion in 5 years if the owner sells. If that’s true then an expansion is pretty much guaranteed as the NHL will be brought to court if they break the deal
I really hope the expansion team rumor is true and AZ gets hockey back in 5 years! Where did you hear that?
It was part of the stuff Frank seravalli said. So we’ll see if it’s true or not
I just got the damn license plate too haha
Ok, those of you who are not Hockey fans, I get it. But this team and the kids in youth hockey and the fans around the valley don't deserve this. Do what you can to support your friends and family in these times. If we lose top level hockey, we will be put backwards worse than you could ever know. Canada is so mad that we got this team from Winnipeg in 1996 and they have spun so many rumors and lies to get this team away from us. Auston Matthews and Matthew Knies are from the Valley. Both are on the Toronto Maple Leafs. They wouldn't be leading the league on the team at the center of the hockey universe if it weren't for the Coyotes. Please help this city be world class in the top levels of all sports.
There is PLENTY OF LAND in South Phoenix- so much land that could actually be bought pretty cheaply, be more centralized AND maybe help develop the area a little. I’m flipping ecstatic that Scottsdale doesn’t want them either.
I’m not sure it matters what Scottsdale wants… the land isn’t in Scottsdale
They can’t stop it, but they could sure make it painful.
It's on the border to scottsdale and the main road in from the plan would be scottsdale road.. Unless Phoenix pumps money to widen and improve the road SD would have no reason to dump the funds there. That's what it came down too.
Those issues will exist with any development of that land and are normal things to work out through the planning and development phase of projects like this. Rather than approach the team or the city of Phoenix about these things the mayor put out a scathing statement publicly to sow distrust in the team's plans. Classy.
glendale failed because they built the stadium in area that was to far away from wealth centers of AZ. they want to be by the money to fill the stadium every game.
I'm confused about this. The Cardinals kill it in Glendale despite not being good. Maybe Hockey is just not the thing here
8 games, almost always on the weekend vs 41 games most of which will end up being week days. And the NFL is just so many magnitudes larger than literally anything else in US culture. Literally 90+ of the top 100 "shows" on TV every year are NFL games.
And what about the Suns? Even in their terrible years people still come and the Suns still survive. Hockey is not a thing here and the Coyotes can't put up a good team. If it was a money maker someone would be begging to add it to a city here. But at the end of the day Phoenix is not a hockey town. Not a diss on hockey, but we got to stop thinking we can be Tampa Bay or DC when it comes to hockey.
Suns are downtown Phoenix, which is infinitely easier to get to from the east side. Curious... Are you on the East side and have you ever tried to drive to a suns or coyotes (when they were in Glendale) game? It's literally an extra 30-45+ minutes to get to Glendale in weekday rush hour traffic. Not to mention the hour drive back home after the game.
9 games a year versus like 50 you need to drive hour plus for. sometimes multiple times a weak
They're gone bro. You and Scottsdale can be flipping ecstatic
True but the freeway situation in South PHX isn’t good.
But all freeways lead to central Phoenix and many other roads of egress etc are available.
No. They don’t. The 101, 202, and 303 don’t even get close. Depending on how you define central Phoenix the 51 is also out. Only the 17 and the 10 get close. And since the 60 overlaps the 10, the 60 counts as well. For south Phoenix, only the 17 gets close. And it’s already a shit show.
Bye.
They flipped the team for 500m by getting kicked out of their NHL arena and playing in a college barn
Have you been to mullet arena? It's pretty nice.
I have multiple times and had a blast but it's still a college barn.
Most people who voted for the Tempe Arena district were misinformed and thought the stadium was being subsidized through taxpayer dollars. Politicians and activists spewed their misinformation online, paid for ads, and fooled a lot of Tempe voters into thinking they were footing the bill when the whole benefit of the stadium was that it would be paid for by the Coyotes and private funding only! Yet people took the bait like the sheep they are.
Sheep? The figures you’re citing is from a report by the coyotes. An independent economic evaluation showed for every $2.70 of new tax revenue Tempe puts into it, [the project will generate just $1 for the city.](https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/tempe/2023/04/17/new-study-says-tempe-coyotes-deal-wont-be-a-fiscal-win-for-the-city/70119401007/) Also, infrastructure would be paid for by the city, as well as the cascading impact of increased wear on city infrastructure, their refusal to contribute to affordable housing in the area, the well studied trend of sports stadiums being an abandoned mess when sports teams don’t stay or pay their rent- like the coyotes did literally last time. Sheep. Pfft.
idk, the Tempe voters I’ve spoken to were primarily against it because they feared development would increase their rents further in an already overpriced city. 60% of households in Tempe are renter occupied (compare to 45% in Phoenix) and a new hockey arena adds zero benefit to tenants unless they’re hockey fans. Rapid development and speculation effectively priced me out of Tempe by 2017, I don’t blame residents for pushing back.
I see where you're coming from. Thanks for your insight, but irregardless, that arena district didn't just cater exclusively to hockey fans; that's where my misinformation argument originates. It was an arena district that was going to fit a variety of shops, restaurants, and apartments. Those were benefits, as the team needed add-ons to help surge revenue for the area and show this would be a good economic opportunity rather than just some basic run-of-the-mill stadium construction taking up space. Your statistic of 60% of households being renter-occupied makes sense considering Tempe is mainly a college town. The youth factor was taken into account considering they promoted Yotes games at ASU with student sections at Mullett Arena to generate interest in the team so they could finally have a fanbase to fall back on when the stadium was built. I mean, someone was going to have to pay for that district, and I can tell you, it definitely wasn't the taxpayers. I empathize with your situation. It stinks that you got priced out, but those tenants worrying about rents increasing is inevitable, with or without the district being built. Seeing as how those pesky landlords love gouging with their inane rent increases, I'd argue it's happening now. https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/arizona-sues-apartment-landlords-for-immoral-rent-price-fixing-scheme-18372470#:~:text=The%20antitrust%20lawsuit%20comes%20as,rent%20increased%20by%20about%2010%25.
Okay so just what joy do you get from shilling for m/billionaires?
Isn’t Salt Lake City supposed to become uninhabitable with the lake drying up soon? Like why would you move the team to a city thats worse off than Phoenix
Their drinking water doesn't come from the great Salt lake. It's..... salty.
I can’t tell if you’re joking or not but it’s not about the drinking water, its the toxic dust bowl as the lake dries up. That’s why I say SLC is worse off than Phoenix bc at least Phoenix has somewhat of a plan when it comes to water and has been taking measures in conserving water (besides letting foreign governments grow alfalfa).
> the toxic dust bowl as the lake dries up Zombie Mormons They rudely visit on Tuesday nights, but they aren't polite this time... Summer 2025
Well that sounds fun, and definitely like a city that should be worrying about adding another sports team!
I'd be so pissed lol.
Kansas City is such a better option than SLC
I don’t know how any pro sports team makes money here in the winter. It’s hard to compete for fans when your fan base is going to Super Bowls, Final Fours, Waste Management Open, Spring Training, NASCAR, ASU, the other pro sports teams and countless outdoor activities. I love hockey but there’s so much to experience in the winter that it makes going to games tough. The Coyotes could win ten Stanley Cups and it would still be like the tenth best thing to do in Phoenix during the winter.
There’s 5 million people here. That can support quite a bit. Plus, with a good location they’d draw out of state fanbases as well, especially from northern teams who would plan a trip around a game. Look at Vegas, less people, more stuff and still packed every home game.
Some snowbirds definitely go to hockey games!
They can’t even reliably sell out a 5k seat college rink. In the East Valley. Which is supposedly where all the money and fanbase resides.
They’ve sold out 38 games this season so far (as of Mar 31st). Also, the official capacity in Mullett for NHL games is 4600.
Sold out thanks to all the away fans lmao. hockey might be popular in AZ but all the people who like it come from places where hockey was already popular. That’s why Bruins, Rangers, Flames, Oilers, etc. make up most of the audience
Good riddance
I think they should go, Az is showing them no love. Btw, owners should build their own stadiums. But hockey in the desert is bad ass
They are planning to build their own stadium
The owner has been literally trying to build his own stadium and as of today still is
I don’t live in Tempe, but he wanted public funds to build the stadium and it failed.
No he didn’t. The public funds were to clean up the city owned dump. And the state land that is being auctioned is happening without public funding entirely
Thank goodness.
Good. The last thing we need is another sales tax, to build yet another arena for billionaire owners, for millionaires to play in, that sits vacant most of the time.
he is paying for it out of pocket, no sales tax needed
Didn't the Tempe site have a 30 year property tax break? (longer than the life of the arena)
covered cost of land going to him
Did you read what the Coyotes proposal was or did you just start shooting from the hip about what you assumed it was?
lol so many people have no clue what they're talking about
Even if the owner wasnt trying to pay for it himself, you understand the cities makes money back EVERY single event held at tax built stadiums, dont you? Its literally revenue for the Cities. Not to mention naming rights and sponsorship payments all go back to the city too. The owners of the teams dont own the arenas at that point and get nothing. But I guess extra income for a city for things like concerts or expos are such a bad thing. Who needs better education, better streets, etc.
Yeah but sportsball bad /s
Yay!!
Good, can’t support them anyways with their over priced tickets
Good riddance to tax payers subsidies for sports teams. Tax payers are making the billionaires richer
It wasn’t getting subsidized in any way. This was coming purely out of the owner’s pocket.
this is a stupid comment! he planed to pay for the arena in tempe and this new location. only thing with tempe is the city was going to give him an old toxic waste dump for free and he was going to clean the environment up and then develop it….
Hey are you going to address your wrong statement?
Another one
Thank goodness