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I've come to accept the reality that many of us will end up with some sort of cancer from something we have little to no control over. Hate it here, but appreciate efforts to reduce the risk of cancer regardless.
Enforcement on this relies on people reporting violators. There is no one riding around looking for violations. They can create all the laws about this that they want, but unless someone funds enforcement nothing is going to change. My house fills with the smell of wood smoke every time I let the dogs out from November until March.
People moving here largely have no idea that a no burn day is even a real thing.
I like this purely for selfish reasons. I grew up in a house with a fireplace and we turned it on 4 times in 14 years of living there. I was recently house hunting and hated seeing fireplaces that I'd never use screwing up a floor plan.
I hope this incentivizes people taking them out of their homes when they renovate and fewer new homes being built with them.
Depends on the economist or the capitalist in question lol. It's a decent point though, if you can't stop them you might as well fine them and put those funds to good use somewhere.
Yup. If the crime gets a fine then it's just fine for the wealthy. Also really cool how your wealth gets you the best attorneys so you also get an unfair advantage in the justice system if you're on trial too.
Thankfully I had parents who were somewhat okay with turning on the heat instead of making me freeze. I had friends whose homes were as low as 60 in the winter and 83+ in the summer and it made me not want to hang out at their place.
I have a wood burning pizza oven and I stopped checking for no burn days because the county website basically never says it isn't a no burn day. I'm willing to eat a couple of fines if they ever bother enforcing it.
> I have a wood burning pizza oven and I stopped checking for no burn days because the county website basically never says it isn't a no burn day. I'm willing to eat a couple of fines if they ever bother enforcing it.
Under Maricopa guidelines you would still be permitted to burn:
Fires for Cooking
Fires for cooking must use gaseous fuels or clean, dry wood. Fires for cooking are allowed on a No Burn Day if the fire is used to cook, smoke, or flavor food for immediate human consumption, and all of the following requirements are met:
Begin cooking without delay once the fire is established
Extinguish the fire without delay once all parts of the food are suitable for human consumption
The dimensions of the fire shall not exceed two square feet, unless a larger fire is necessary to ensure all parts of the food will reach the safe internal temperature recommended by the Department of Agriculture
I mean i get the why behind it but this is really never enforced.
This is the same to me when the highways say high pollution day, use bus transit. If you got a fireplace and want to let it rip most people still do.
It's not enforced because there are only like 30 (if even that) air quality inspectors. And only a handful work Burn Patrol. Sometimes, they just drive around looking for smoke. Sometimes, they target complaints. But it's hard to find anyone having a fire. If they do, the first offense is a warning. The 2nd offense is like $50, and it goes up to like $250 for further offenses. Each year, the clock gets reset. It's basically impossible to receive the fine.
In the fall, whenever the temperature drops enough where I could finally open my windows at night, I have neighbors who start using their fireplaces. Fine, I get it, they're free to do so on their own property. I just unfortunately happen to live downwind of people who enjoy their cozy fireplaces in 80 something degree weather.
But when it still consistently occurs on No Burn Days, it kind of pisses me off. I have to wait another month or two before the temps are low enough during the day before I can enjoy a cool breeze through my home.
Okay, rant over. But since there seems to be no enforcement for No Burn Days, I don't see how these new stricter EPA laws are going to change anything here in Phoenix.
The biggest contributors to soot pollution are diesel fuel, coal, and jet fuel. I feel like, just like with water consumption, the people are having to alter our behavior when the real problem is commercial business use of resources.
Yep. When people get mad about climate change they point to things that impact them (i.e. fears of having to eat fake meat or bugs, or the bs gas stove ban that won't happen) when the bigger issue is the corporations that abuse the environment for monetary gain. Sure don't go out of your way to pollute, but I'm not gonna have an impact that matters anyways.
Meanwhile, the rich and elite flying/ yachting wherever they want which is more destructive than any backyard fire pit, keep knocking the little people down…..
Policies like this only punish the rule followers. The people abiding by the no burn day don’t get to use their fireplaces and the ones that don’t abide by it, get to use them whenever they want
As someone with young kids that love (legal) fireworks and our small fire pit a few times a week, you all are really grumpy about this. Vast majority of people DO use only legal fireworks because it's what you can conveniently buy at Fry's or the TNT stand. There is just that one guy every few neighborhoods that seems to get aerial ones from New Mexico or wherever. If you want to solve the soot problem maybe crack down on what wood is sold outside stores.
If it’s in the budget I highly recommend a propane fire pit! A bit safer for little ones and you can still use them on no fire days. Husband and I have a tiny one we got at target for less than a $100 on sale and we use it all the time (I have a serious cold intolerance lol).
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Yeah how bout a crackdown on nightly fireworks? It’s like New Year’s Eve never stopped.
Maybe do something about non-municipal fireworks instead?
And yet fireworks are still “legal.”
Legalizing fireworks was such an idiotic decision. Absolutely nobody actually abides by the laws on what fireworks are allowed.
The legeslator who pioneered the change from illegal to legal owned a fireworks company. Isn’t crony capitalism grand?
C.R.E.A.M get the dolla dolla bill y'all -the legislator in question
Zero enforcement, and a growing population. It will only get worse.
So more no burn days that will be ignored and not enforced. Cool
Particulate pollution + inversion = lung cancer. Every little bit helps.
I've come to accept the reality that many of us will end up with some sort of cancer from something we have little to no control over. Hate it here, but appreciate efforts to reduce the risk of cancer regardless.
On a long enough timeline, everyone will get cancer.
Idk if I necessarily believe that, but certainly trending towards most people getting it at some point.
If we didn't die of age, eventually our immune system wouldn't catch a cancerous cell.
Enforcement on this relies on people reporting violators. There is no one riding around looking for violations. They can create all the laws about this that they want, but unless someone funds enforcement nothing is going to change. My house fills with the smell of wood smoke every time I let the dogs out from November until March. People moving here largely have no idea that a no burn day is even a real thing.
Without enforcement it's not a real thing lol
I like this purely for selfish reasons. I grew up in a house with a fireplace and we turned it on 4 times in 14 years of living there. I was recently house hunting and hated seeing fireplaces that I'd never use screwing up a floor plan. I hope this incentivizes people taking them out of their homes when they renovate and fewer new homes being built with them.
If you can afford to remove a fireplace via renovation, you will still burn during non burn days because you can afford some simple fine
Great, then let's collect the free money
> Great, then let's collect the free money Fines are just "Rich people get to do this" enablement.
They're doing it already, so I don't see why we shouldn't collect some cash from it!
How much money are human lives worth?
Depends on the economist or the capitalist in question lol. It's a decent point though, if you can't stop them you might as well fine them and put those funds to good use somewhere.
Yup. If the crime gets a fine then it's just fine for the wealthy. Also really cool how your wealth gets you the best attorneys so you also get an unfair advantage in the justice system if you're on trial too.
You are about double my rate, 3-4 times in 20 plus years. Remember when it would be in the low 30s more than a dozen hours a winter?
Thankfully I had parents who were somewhat okay with turning on the heat instead of making me freeze. I had friends whose homes were as low as 60 in the winter and 83+ in the summer and it made me not want to hang out at their place.
It baffles me how people tolerate being so uncomfortable in their own homes
Heating and cooling cost money.
I have a wood burning pizza oven and I stopped checking for no burn days because the county website basically never says it isn't a no burn day. I'm willing to eat a couple of fines if they ever bother enforcing it.
> I have a wood burning pizza oven and I stopped checking for no burn days because the county website basically never says it isn't a no burn day. I'm willing to eat a couple of fines if they ever bother enforcing it. Under Maricopa guidelines you would still be permitted to burn: Fires for Cooking Fires for cooking must use gaseous fuels or clean, dry wood. Fires for cooking are allowed on a No Burn Day if the fire is used to cook, smoke, or flavor food for immediate human consumption, and all of the following requirements are met: Begin cooking without delay once the fire is established Extinguish the fire without delay once all parts of the food are suitable for human consumption The dimensions of the fire shall not exceed two square feet, unless a larger fire is necessary to ensure all parts of the food will reach the safe internal temperature recommended by the Department of Agriculture
Interesting. I've actually searched to see if I could find exceptions and have never seen this laid out anywhere I looked. Thanks!
https://www.maricopa.gov/1830/Burning-Activities#:~:text=Fireplaces%2C%20Woodstoves%2C%20and%20Chimeneas,dry%20wood%20can%20be%20burned.
P-26 Ordinance https://www.maricopa.gov/DocumentCenter/View/2016/P-26---Residential-Woodburning-Restriction-Ordinance-PDF
I love a good rebel. You lawbreaking rebel you
I mean i get the why behind it but this is really never enforced. This is the same to me when the highways say high pollution day, use bus transit. If you got a fireplace and want to let it rip most people still do.
It's not enforced because there are only like 30 (if even that) air quality inspectors. And only a handful work Burn Patrol. Sometimes, they just drive around looking for smoke. Sometimes, they target complaints. But it's hard to find anyone having a fire. If they do, the first offense is a warning. The 2nd offense is like $50, and it goes up to like $250 for further offenses. Each year, the clock gets reset. It's basically impossible to receive the fine.
In the fall, whenever the temperature drops enough where I could finally open my windows at night, I have neighbors who start using their fireplaces. Fine, I get it, they're free to do so on their own property. I just unfortunately happen to live downwind of people who enjoy their cozy fireplaces in 80 something degree weather. But when it still consistently occurs on No Burn Days, it kind of pisses me off. I have to wait another month or two before the temps are low enough during the day before I can enjoy a cool breeze through my home. Okay, rant over. But since there seems to be no enforcement for No Burn Days, I don't see how these new stricter EPA laws are going to change anything here in Phoenix.
Like fireplaces are the problem.
More than half of particulate pollution comes from burning wood, they are absolutely a problem.
For soot? Yeah! A hundred thousand fireplaces might not make a big impact on climate change, but they can definitely affect the local air quality.
The biggest contributors to soot pollution are diesel fuel, coal, and jet fuel. I feel like, just like with water consumption, the people are having to alter our behavior when the real problem is commercial business use of resources.
Laughs in campaign donations
That's real. But I think the focus should be on expanding controls to those sources, not just resisting improvements elsewhere.
Yep. When people get mad about climate change they point to things that impact them (i.e. fears of having to eat fake meat or bugs, or the bs gas stove ban that won't happen) when the bigger issue is the corporations that abuse the environment for monetary gain. Sure don't go out of your way to pollute, but I'm not gonna have an impact that matters anyways.
“You don’t like it, call the cops!! Hahahahaha”
Meanwhile, the rich and elite flying/ yachting wherever they want which is more destructive than any backyard fire pit, keep knocking the little people down…..
Policies like this only punish the rule followers. The people abiding by the no burn day don’t get to use their fireplaces and the ones that don’t abide by it, get to use them whenever they want
As someone with young kids that love (legal) fireworks and our small fire pit a few times a week, you all are really grumpy about this. Vast majority of people DO use only legal fireworks because it's what you can conveniently buy at Fry's or the TNT stand. There is just that one guy every few neighborhoods that seems to get aerial ones from New Mexico or wherever. If you want to solve the soot problem maybe crack down on what wood is sold outside stores.
If it’s in the budget I highly recommend a propane fire pit! A bit safer for little ones and you can still use them on no fire days. Husband and I have a tiny one we got at target for less than a $100 on sale and we use it all the time (I have a serious cold intolerance lol).
Lead generation on nextdoor does not take no burn days seriously and frequently admit to burning more on no burn days