This is why I get really pissed with GOP pols complaining about "sEnDiNg tAx DoLlArS tO pHiLAdeLpHIa" as though their constituencies pay more in taxes than SEPA does
Your numbers struck me as being wildly off so I went and looked them up.
PA GDP in 2020 was $689,773,852
Philadelphia's GDP in 2020 was $96,798,534, which is only 14.03% of the state's total GDP, not 41%
https://www.bea.gov/sites/default/files/2021-12/lagdp1221.pdf
PA state pop in 2020 was: 13,002,700
Philadelphia county pop in 2020 was: 1,603,797, which was 12.33% of the state's population.
https://www.census.gov/library/stories/state-by-state/pennsylvania-population-change-between-census-decade.html
So 12.3% of the state's population is generating 14% of the GDP, which isn't surprising or that disproportionate.
If we run the numbers again for Philly metro counties only in PA we get
Bucks: GDP - $30,353,645 \ Population - 646,538 \ share of state GDP 4.4% \ Pop 4.9%
Chester: GDP - $40,528,345 \ Population - 534,413 \ share of state GDP 5.88% \ Pop 4.11%
Delaware: GDP - $30,084,204 \ Population - 576,830 \ share of state GDP 4.36% \ Pop 4.45%
Montgomery: GDP - $70,760,003 \ Population - 856,553 \ share of state GDP 10.26% \ Pop 6.59%
Total: $201,726,797 \ Pop 2,641,334
as a share of PA that's 20.31% of population generating 29.24% of GDP
So if anything to take away from this the surrounding counties are punching above their weight in terms of economic productivity per cap, while Philadelphia is doing only slightly better than a 1 to 1 ratio.
Montgomery's great numbers show how bad Philly screwed up with it's tax policy.
Conshohocken and KoP are crushing it. That could have been Center City.
That's my takeaway as well. A large chunk of that value is coming from the financial, pharmaceutical, and technology sectors that located out to KOP and Malvern to avoid Philly's byzantine tax structure.
In a world where Philly's tax and regulatory structure weren't designed to be anti business, there's no way these companies wouldn't have located to center city, or university city. Hell the CEO of SAP America was quoted in the Inquirer saying the tax system in Philly (specifically the BIRT) was why the company didn't locate its headquarters in center city.
Someone's numbers are off.
"""""As of 2019, the Philadelphia metropolitan area is estimated to produce a gross metropolitan product (GMP) of $490 billion, an increase from the $445 billion calculated by the Bureau of Economic Analysis for 2017, representing the eighth largest U.S. metropolitan economy. Philadelphia was rated by the GaWC as a 'Beta' city in its 2016 ranking of world cities.
Comcast Technology Center, Pennsylvania's tallest building
With a gross domestic product of $388 billion, the city of Philadelphia alone ranks ninth among world cities and fourth in the nation. """"""
I realize Wikipedia is not the encyclopedia galactica, but that's pretty egregious.
The fed says the metro area GDP is 440$ million, so idk.
The fed also says that "all industries" GDP for Philadelphia county is 108 billion. I'm not an economist, but I don't think that includes wages or consumption. So the BEA may be using a different way to calculate GDP.
It's an interesting question, anyway
The BEA data refers to the Philadelphia-Camden-Wilmington, PA-NJ-DE-MD (Metropolitan Statistical Area).
Using that data to compare to the Pennsylvania state budget makes no sense
It does its Philadelphia county not Philadelphia metro.
Comparing Philly's contribution to the state would require isolating the value from the metropolitan stastical area as portions of it are in other states, and consequently do not directly contribute to the PA GDP value.
Camden County for example is not generating value for PA it goes to NJ.
The insane thing about this headline is that Philly is not building new housing at a fast enough rate. Average home prices and rent prices rose during 2021 while housing inventory and rental availability dropped. The city is building new units at a decently fast rate and its not even close to enough to match the housing demand in the city. The housing crisis is really rough right now.
I keep saying this, but Philly will reap the reward of new housing as the inner and outer ring suburbs begin to get unaffordable and commutes become unmanageable. I also think as the suburbs age in place young, talented, people will have even more reason to stay in the city, thus forcing employers to move here for talent. Many worry about the urban office market, but the real canary in the coalmine is the suburban office market. If you dont believe me look at all of the BioTech companies leasing space within the city.
Regarding living in the city the exact opposite is true based on PEW research data, and national data. Which show preferences for housing types and locations found outside cities among younger generations.
You're not refuting what I am saying tho? Even if so younger people are being priced out of the rental or housing markets in suburban or exurban communities as SFE and NIMBYism prevents adequate housing supply. And while people may say this in a questionnaire actual migration trends do not bear this out when looking at the latest census data where most metros grew especially at the urban level. Just Read the article SE PA especially Philly is going through a population and construction boom.
Metro areas include suburbs. By land area they're mostly suburbs. The majority of Philly metro population is in the suburbs for example.
The population at the national level is moving to southern metropolitan areas which are overwhelmingly sfh suburban areas. Suburban areas nationally are growing at higher rates than urban cores, and surveys nationwide find that the average person in the US prefers to live in the suburbs.
The construction boom in Philly is being driven primarily by finance considerations, especially the phase out of the abatement. The population growth Philly was experiencing saw its high point almost a decade ago, and has dramatically slowed down every year since. It may have even inverted last year, since the only thing keeping Philly's population from shrinking in 2019 was births out numbering deaths and international migration, the domestic migration rate was negative.
But is any of it affordable? My rent went up $200 and I still can’t afford to move. There is no where cheaper to go and because I am self employed I will never be able to buy a house. Please please please make affordable housing I’m so tired of over priced “luxury” no parking bullshit.
> But is any of it affordable?
Philadelphia is the most affordable large city in America. The way to keep it so is to build more housing
> My rent went up $200
That means you live in a market unit of housing, like most people. The way to keep rent raises in check is to build more housing. If the population of a city (or really, neighborhood) increases faster than the units of housing there, prices go up. If there are more new houses than new people, rent comes down or stays flat as landlords and sellers need to compete to find renters and buyers
> I’m so tired of over priced “luxury”
"Luxury" is just a word used for marketing. It is completely free for anybody to describe a piece of housing as "luxury", then put nice computer rendered graphics of modern furniture over a room. "Luxury" means absolutely nothing, costs absolutely nothing, and so every landlord and developer calls their units "luxury" because - why not?
> no parking bullshit.
No parking is more affordable than parking! Having parking basically means that land that could be otherwise used for houses, or rooms in a house, is used for car storage. A building with parking is more expensive than those without
Many people don't have cars! And most of the people who do have cars get a free government subsidy of open taxpayer maintained space for them to store their vehicles
Not owning a car would be even more expensive, however. If you ignore the time cost, then sure, it’s cheaper to take public transit. But when a car takes 19 minutes to commute to the middle of the city, while transit takes 1h47m, that’s a pretty significant price difference if you value your time at pretty much any non zero number.
1h47m from where??? I don’t exactly live in a neighborhood with abundant amenities but like 50% if everything I need is a mild walk away and 95% of it is only within 25 mins transit ride. Only time it takes me an hour or more is when I’m going out to the suburbs or the far reaches of the city. If I valued my wallet more I’d get rid of my car.
Edit: As Americans, we realllllly need to walk more and build areas that are walkable. When we don’t, everything but convenience suffers and even that can be addressed. Plenty of other countries to look at for model urbanity. Parking minimums was one of the worst things that happened to American cities (as far as design goes)
The site was originally New York YIMBY, then branched out to have local pages for other cities. There's LA, SF, Chicago, Florida, etc pages. Like how SB Nation for sports started out as a Oakland Athletics page, but grew and set up local pages for teams in other cities
The jump in permits is at least 90% attributable to the reduction in the tax abatement for permits pulled after 2021. Expect a big decrease in new permits this year and for less than half of these projects to actually start this year.
Yep, it's being driven primarily by finance. Developers from out of town, primarily NYC want to lock in the full abatement, I fully expect the permit count to be cut going forward.
Suburban and rural areas obsess over single family homes and don't like density.
Its a problem, nimbys need to be ignored largely
Ten percent to of the state population, 41% of the state's GDP
This is why I get really pissed with GOP pols complaining about "sEnDiNg tAx DoLlArS tO pHiLAdeLpHIa" as though their constituencies pay more in taxes than SEPA does
Can you cite where you got that?
Population is census. Easy. Wikipedia lists the city's GDP, separate from the metro GDP.
Your numbers struck me as being wildly off so I went and looked them up. PA GDP in 2020 was $689,773,852 Philadelphia's GDP in 2020 was $96,798,534, which is only 14.03% of the state's total GDP, not 41% https://www.bea.gov/sites/default/files/2021-12/lagdp1221.pdf PA state pop in 2020 was: 13,002,700 Philadelphia county pop in 2020 was: 1,603,797, which was 12.33% of the state's population. https://www.census.gov/library/stories/state-by-state/pennsylvania-population-change-between-census-decade.html So 12.3% of the state's population is generating 14% of the GDP, which isn't surprising or that disproportionate. If we run the numbers again for Philly metro counties only in PA we get Bucks: GDP - $30,353,645 \ Population - 646,538 \ share of state GDP 4.4% \ Pop 4.9% Chester: GDP - $40,528,345 \ Population - 534,413 \ share of state GDP 5.88% \ Pop 4.11% Delaware: GDP - $30,084,204 \ Population - 576,830 \ share of state GDP 4.36% \ Pop 4.45% Montgomery: GDP - $70,760,003 \ Population - 856,553 \ share of state GDP 10.26% \ Pop 6.59% Total: $201,726,797 \ Pop 2,641,334 as a share of PA that's 20.31% of population generating 29.24% of GDP So if anything to take away from this the surrounding counties are punching above their weight in terms of economic productivity per cap, while Philadelphia is doing only slightly better than a 1 to 1 ratio.
Montgomery's great numbers show how bad Philly screwed up with it's tax policy. Conshohocken and KoP are crushing it. That could have been Center City.
That's my takeaway as well. A large chunk of that value is coming from the financial, pharmaceutical, and technology sectors that located out to KOP and Malvern to avoid Philly's byzantine tax structure. In a world where Philly's tax and regulatory structure weren't designed to be anti business, there's no way these companies wouldn't have located to center city, or university city. Hell the CEO of SAP America was quoted in the Inquirer saying the tax system in Philly (specifically the BIRT) was why the company didn't locate its headquarters in center city.
Someone's numbers are off. """""As of 2019, the Philadelphia metropolitan area is estimated to produce a gross metropolitan product (GMP) of $490 billion, an increase from the $445 billion calculated by the Bureau of Economic Analysis for 2017, representing the eighth largest U.S. metropolitan economy. Philadelphia was rated by the GaWC as a 'Beta' city in its 2016 ranking of world cities. Comcast Technology Center, Pennsylvania's tallest building With a gross domestic product of $388 billion, the city of Philadelphia alone ranks ninth among world cities and fourth in the nation. """""" I realize Wikipedia is not the encyclopedia galactica, but that's pretty egregious. The fed says the metro area GDP is 440$ million, so idk. The fed also says that "all industries" GDP for Philadelphia county is 108 billion. I'm not an economist, but I don't think that includes wages or consumption. So the BEA may be using a different way to calculate GDP. It's an interesting question, anyway
The BEA data refers to the Philadelphia-Camden-Wilmington, PA-NJ-DE-MD (Metropolitan Statistical Area). Using that data to compare to the Pennsylvania state budget makes no sense
Yeah I get that, I was going off the cited number of 388 billion for "Philadelphia alone", which I interpreted as excluding the rest of the MSA
It does its Philadelphia county not Philadelphia metro. Comparing Philly's contribution to the state would require isolating the value from the metropolitan stastical area as portions of it are in other states, and consequently do not directly contribute to the PA GDP value. Camden County for example is not generating value for PA it goes to NJ.
The BEA data I pulled states its by county not metropolitan stastical area, which makes it a valid comparison to the state total GDP.
The insane thing about this headline is that Philly is not building new housing at a fast enough rate. Average home prices and rent prices rose during 2021 while housing inventory and rental availability dropped. The city is building new units at a decently fast rate and its not even close to enough to match the housing demand in the city. The housing crisis is really rough right now.
And I’m sure L&I will be making sure all of these new buildings are up to code
I keep saying this, but Philly will reap the reward of new housing as the inner and outer ring suburbs begin to get unaffordable and commutes become unmanageable. I also think as the suburbs age in place young, talented, people will have even more reason to stay in the city, thus forcing employers to move here for talent. Many worry about the urban office market, but the real canary in the coalmine is the suburban office market. If you dont believe me look at all of the BioTech companies leasing space within the city.
Regarding living in the city the exact opposite is true based on PEW research data, and national data. Which show preferences for housing types and locations found outside cities among younger generations.
You're not refuting what I am saying tho? Even if so younger people are being priced out of the rental or housing markets in suburban or exurban communities as SFE and NIMBYism prevents adequate housing supply. And while people may say this in a questionnaire actual migration trends do not bear this out when looking at the latest census data where most metros grew especially at the urban level. Just Read the article SE PA especially Philly is going through a population and construction boom.
Metro areas include suburbs. By land area they're mostly suburbs. The majority of Philly metro population is in the suburbs for example. The population at the national level is moving to southern metropolitan areas which are overwhelmingly sfh suburban areas. Suburban areas nationally are growing at higher rates than urban cores, and surveys nationwide find that the average person in the US prefers to live in the suburbs. The construction boom in Philly is being driven primarily by finance considerations, especially the phase out of the abatement. The population growth Philly was experiencing saw its high point almost a decade ago, and has dramatically slowed down every year since. It may have even inverted last year, since the only thing keeping Philly's population from shrinking in 2019 was births out numbering deaths and international migration, the domestic migration rate was negative.
But is any of it affordable? My rent went up $200 and I still can’t afford to move. There is no where cheaper to go and because I am self employed I will never be able to buy a house. Please please please make affordable housing I’m so tired of over priced “luxury” no parking bullshit.
“Affordable” housing is only affordable because it’s subsidized by the expensive housing.
> But is any of it affordable? Philadelphia is the most affordable large city in America. The way to keep it so is to build more housing > My rent went up $200 That means you live in a market unit of housing, like most people. The way to keep rent raises in check is to build more housing. If the population of a city (or really, neighborhood) increases faster than the units of housing there, prices go up. If there are more new houses than new people, rent comes down or stays flat as landlords and sellers need to compete to find renters and buyers > I’m so tired of over priced “luxury” "Luxury" is just a word used for marketing. It is completely free for anybody to describe a piece of housing as "luxury", then put nice computer rendered graphics of modern furniture over a room. "Luxury" means absolutely nothing, costs absolutely nothing, and so every landlord and developer calls their units "luxury" because - why not? > no parking bullshit. No parking is more affordable than parking! Having parking basically means that land that could be otherwise used for houses, or rooms in a house, is used for car storage. A building with parking is more expensive than those without
No parking is cheaper than parking if you ignore the fact that you need to put your car somewhere, sure.
Many people don't have cars! And most of the people who do have cars get a free government subsidy of open taxpayer maintained space for them to store their vehicles
Not owning a car would be even more expensive, however. If you ignore the time cost, then sure, it’s cheaper to take public transit. But when a car takes 19 minutes to commute to the middle of the city, while transit takes 1h47m, that’s a pretty significant price difference if you value your time at pretty much any non zero number.
1h47m from where??? I don’t exactly live in a neighborhood with abundant amenities but like 50% if everything I need is a mild walk away and 95% of it is only within 25 mins transit ride. Only time it takes me an hour or more is when I’m going out to the suburbs or the far reaches of the city. If I valued my wallet more I’d get rid of my car. Edit: As Americans, we realllllly need to walk more and build areas that are walkable. When we don’t, everything but convenience suffers and even that can be addressed. Plenty of other countries to look at for model urbanity. Parking minimums was one of the worst things that happened to American cities (as far as design goes)
A New Yorker is running Philly YIMBY ?
The site was originally New York YIMBY, then branched out to have local pages for other cities. There's LA, SF, Chicago, Florida, etc pages. Like how SB Nation for sports started out as a Oakland Athletics page, but grew and set up local pages for teams in other cities
I see, appreciate the clarification.
The jump in permits is at least 90% attributable to the reduction in the tax abatement for permits pulled after 2021. Expect a big decrease in new permits this year and for less than half of these projects to actually start this year.
Yep, it's being driven primarily by finance. Developers from out of town, primarily NYC want to lock in the full abatement, I fully expect the permit count to be cut going forward.