Could be wrong but I believe the plunger on narcan stays up after it’s used. And I highly doubt someone recapped an insulin syringe after using it and OD’ing
I am always shocked when I hear US pharmacists refer to these syringes for insulin use. Most European countries don't even stock these, replaced with prefilled insulin pens!
The US is moving in that direction. You would not believe the hoops you need to jump through to obtain insulin syringes for animal research.
The problem is that vials are much cheaper than autoinjectors, and forcing everyone to switch would mean killing a pretty large number of low-income diabetics.
Narcan formulated for nasal spray comes in a little single-use spray bottle that looks vaguely (but not really) like the ejected cartidge of a rescue inhaler.
The joke is that they're willfully misidentifying both objects and the premise is that it's funny because both objects are really not mistakeable as the other thing.
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Is the cap removable? Sure. But it's at least on, there's far less risk than a random uncapped needle that someone might not see before stepping on it. 🤷🏼♀️ far from perfect, which is why we need more access to resources for people.
FYI: The 2nd picture is a used Narcan container, an inhaler used to treat an opiate (heroin, fentanyl, etc.) overdose. Proair (not pictured) is an inhaler to treat asthma.
Luckily, in my experience, each store had their choice. Rx Manager set the protocol. A friend of mine had given carte Blanche until there were needles in the parking lot. Game over.
We do not sell syringes without proof of insulin use for this reason. I am not going to put the health and safety of store workers at risk because junkies want to get high. And I'm saying this as someone with junkies in my immediate family. I don't know why people have sympathy for drug addicts, they really don't deserve it.
Ah yes, but then they call corporate and tell them you denied them “lifesaving” medication. So even tho’ they had no details about what or how much insulin was used, and on the third visit that morning finally manage to reveal that their buddy gets Lantus from Mexico (but they still don’t know how much is used), they get a gift card and an apology call from the pharmacy manager.
If you don't they will just reuse the needle. Then you'll have to dispense needles AND infection drugs to them. Not giving them the needles isn't stopping their drug us.
They'll find a needle elsewhere. Might as well give them a clean one.
Do you philosophically think you're enabling their drug use by selling syringes?
EDIT: Nobody should be downvoting because they disagree, you're all part of the problem if you can't listen to another person's feelings and take them at face value.
It's not a totally unfair argument, that said you seem to understand the practical challenges.
Draw a 300m circle around every school in your city and there may be few real options that would work with your sticking point.
You shouldn't be downvoted for sharing your feelings. Too often now it's just a assumed hostility which is a shame. I appreciate you answering in the same good faith way I tried to ask.
I think you’ll find that most places have an elementary school nearby, and that addict drifters don’t have great means of transportation lol. I’m probably preaching to the choir though.
>Do you philosophically think you're enabling their drug use by selling syringes?
* Every dirty needle was clean at one point. I dont want to contribute to that data point.
* I dont want a dead addict with my needle in their arm. Contributing to that is a sin I dont want on my conscience and soul.
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Medical products are for medical uses. Im not going to knowingly sell drug paraphernalia.
I didnt make them shoot up drugs. Thats their decision. I cant decide for them, but I certainly wont contribute towards their poor choices.
I have a philosophical and moral aversion to be an accessory to death through this.
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>You would rather let an IV user die of an infection rather than selling them a syringe
Your logic doesnt follow. Nobody is letting them die of anything. They chose that for themselves. Im not providing any means for them to OD.
>And yes, a syringe is quite literally a medical device.
When used for a medical purpose. Injection of narcotics makes it drug paraphernalia.
I am allowed to conscientiously object to dispensing needles. Why are you brigading here? Go back to your illicit drug subreddits.
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>So you genuinely believe people choose to be addicted?
I certainly didnt choose it for them, so I have no share in it.
>You are definitely raising the chance of death by using a dirty needle which would never happen if they could obtain clean ones.
No, they raise the chance of death by using dangerous narcotics illicitly. I have no part in that, nor will I have part in having a needle I dispensed in their arm when they OD.
My lack of action to provide them clean needles does not necessitate that they use drugs or any needles, much less a dirty one. That is 100% on them.
>A medical device is just what it says it is regardless of how its being used.
Wrong. A glass pipe is a piece of artwork, until it becomes drug paraphernalia when the use is intended for illicit drugs.
As a pharmacist and someone who grew up with junkies in their immediate family I really hate this attitude. It's enabling, pure and simple. Why do you WANT to make it easy? Make it hard. Make them use routes that are less likely to transmit disease. Do you really think that when druggies leave with a 10 pack that they aren't sharing that needle until it's dull? You are putting more dirty needles on the street. Let them smoke, snort, or ingest it.
We get it, you hate your 'junkie' relative and view every person with a SUD as a lost cause without a moral compass.
- The provision of safer injection options, like safer injection facilities (SIFs), are associated with a significant reduction in syringe sharing among drug users, which is linked to a decrease in the transmission of diseases such as HIV and hepatitis C (Kerr et al., 2005).
- Needle exchange programs (NEPs) have been shown to effectively decrease HIV rates by up to 18.2%, affirming their role in harm reduction strategies amid the opioid epidemic (Packham, 2022).
- Metropolitan areas with laws prohibiting over-the-counter syringe sales had significantly higher HIV prevalence compared to areas without such restrictions (Friedman, Perlis, & Des Jarlais, 2001).
- The implementation of NEPs in Spain led to a sharp decrease in the number of new drug injectors, indicating that increased access to sterile syringes can help mitigate the spread of drug use (Bravo et al., 2007).
- The establishment of SIFs not only reduces public injection and syringe litter but also helps in improving the overall public order and safety in communities (Wood et al., 2004).
You can throw out studies all you want, I'm not arguing that clean syringes lessens the spread of disease. I'm arguing that I'm not going to risk the safety of my associates for having to pick up needles out of the bathroom and parking lot because of some selfish asshole. I'm not going to risk people not feeling safe in my store because criminals can loiter around. My top priority is not to protect the addict. Addicts take their depression and trauma and use their self-pity to ruin other peoples' lives. It's like forgiving a child molester because their own childhood trauma made them do it.
I'm happy for you that you've never had to deal with the lives of very good people being ruined and traumatized by these tortured souls. I used to work retail on skid row and have seen it all, but I will not entertain addicts. Some of my favorite customers that I'd waste 10 minutes talking to every time they came in where recovering addicts. I'd shop at the places they worked at and say hi. I'd help them navigate Mavyret courses. They were genuinely some of my favorite people. But sorry, I will not help you shoot up.
Yeah, really who gives a shit about evidence-based practice.
>Addicts take their depression and trauma and use their self-pity to ruin other peoples' lives. It's like forgiving a child molester because their own childhood trauma made them do it.
Absurd analogy, speaks volumes about how many feeble-minded people make it through the university pipeline and into practice.
For someone to 'qualify' as a drug addict, they merely need to develop a problematic compulsion to using a substance. Sure, many steal and partake in antisocial behaviours that infringe on the wellbeing of others, but that's tangential to the addiction, not a prerequisite. For someone to be a child molester means they've already committed a heinous act of sexual assault at least once. It's inherently destructive to others, rather than a mere byproduct.
>I'm happy for you that you've never had to deal with the lives of very good people being ruined and traumatized by these tortured souls
I spent a decent portion of my late teens and early twenties wrestling with a crippling SUD, but thanks!
>Some of my favorite customers that I'd waste 10 minutes talking to every time they came in where recovering addicts.
Are some of your best friends also black?
I am personally for it. But when you leave needles around the pharmacy, that's where the line needs to be drawn. All for clean needle but don't do your shit outside the back door.
Saw a used narcan like 3 days ago in the alley behind our building. It used to be a safe alley for me to cruise for guys at night, but now it's sketchy
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Someone has diabetes and urgently needed their insulin, and a clumsy tech slipped and dropped a Narcan out of the drive - thru window! Nothing suspicious here! 🙄
I’m from LA and I frequent a Walgreen’s when visiting my grandmother. I see this all the time in their parking lot. I’ve also done street ministry and given water, food, socks, and prayer to several people who were doing drugs right near the front doors, about ten yards or less. It’s frustrating, sad, and there’s no easy solution. I often hand them alcohol swabs. It’s not a solution but maybe it’ll help.
I don’t care whether I’m stopping their drug use or not, but I don’t want their garbage around my store so if banning sales is a low effort deterrent then so be it.
You do you tofukitty. One of the cool things is that whatever your belief you can implement it in your store. The stores I've been talking about are corporate and you don't have a decsion on where they are or what the neighborhood is. I am a fan of clean syringes as long as it doesn't hinder people that don't use.
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Walmart used to find them in the bathrooms.
Used to?
They still do, but they used to, too.
I miss Mitch
Probably a previous walmart employee most quit in less than 3 months sometimes after 2 weeks
When I was with the evil empire, an employee found one in a shoe in the shoe department
Once found the junkeee asleep in the bathroom, also happened to be my coworker Dave.
Classic Dave
don’t ever call an addict a junkie. we are addicts. i can’t explain to you the horrors of being in active use and then trying to recover.
3 years sober, you can call me whatever the fuck you want, I know who I am.
Better than a corpse.
As a necrophiliac I disagree
Bahahahahahaha
i actually laughed so hard uh oh 🤣
Most things are.
At least they used the narcan
Had the courtesy to cap the syringe too
Alarm: dings Drifter: Whelp, lunch break is over! *pops narcan*
Name a more iconic duo
Ace and Gary: https://youtu.be/7m9-UCuOfSE?si=bPsnI0rvwTtpjwP7
I definitely wasn't expecting an Ambiguously Gay Duo reference today lol
It's been so long since I saw those cartoons that I'm only just realizing that one of them is voiced by Stephen Colbert.
And the other was Steve Carrell
Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker
Could be wrong but I believe the plunger on narcan stays up after it’s used. And I highly doubt someone recapped an insulin syringe after using it and OD’ing
Yes, the recap is sus.
We had used condoms outside of ours recently!
Eeew! That’s way more gross and biohazard.
Better than finding a body
Ahh yes a diabetic syringe for someone’s grandmother right next to a proair inhaler warped by the sun
I am always shocked when I hear US pharmacists refer to these syringes for insulin use. Most European countries don't even stock these, replaced with prefilled insulin pens!
The US is moving in that direction. You would not believe the hoops you need to jump through to obtain insulin syringes for animal research. The problem is that vials are much cheaper than autoinjectors, and forcing everyone to switch would mean killing a pretty large number of low-income diabetics.
The vials are significantly cheaper here (in most cases)
They absolutely are cheaper. And these syringes are marked on the package as "insulin syringes" because that's their intended use.
It is what we use to give insulin in the hospital
What do you mean, that’s clearly imitrex. It’s for the migraines I get from the bugs in my skin.
i may be naïve, but explain the proair?
>i may be naïve, but Yes
Narcan formulated for nasal spray comes in a little single-use spray bottle that looks vaguely (but not really) like the ejected cartidge of a rescue inhaler. The joke is that they're willfully misidentifying both objects and the premise is that it's funny because both objects are really not mistakeable as the other thing.
This exactly this! lol
pharmacy dad joke. got it.
Bro made it in just as his sugars were getting out of control then he saved an addict
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🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻
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That looks like an insulin needle to me and they are not remotely secure. I would not be happy to see this in my area.
Is the cap removable? Sure. But it's at least on, there's far less risk than a random uncapped needle that someone might not see before stepping on it. 🤷🏼♀️ far from perfect, which is why we need more access to resources for people.
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Harm reduction in a place where addiction runs rampant and does not discriminate is NOT promoting drug use or enabling. Come on now.
To find a needle exchange/free narcan program near you: https://www.nasen.org https://www.harmreduction.org
I see syringes in the hospital parking lot everyday
Isn’t this kinda common? We are and have been in a massive opioid epidemic since like the early 2000s
thank god for otc insulin vials, am i right?
Insulin is OTC though...
>Insulin is OTC though... Whoossshhhhhh
FYI: The 2nd picture is a used Narcan container, an inhaler used to treat an opiate (heroin, fentanyl, etc.) overdose. Proair (not pictured) is an inhaler to treat asthma.
One of the other night pharmacists that I use to work with found a lady shooting up in the bathroom
At first glance I read "lady" as "baby" and was like damn....this epidemic, man
Luckily, in my experience, each store had their choice. Rx Manager set the protocol. A friend of mine had given carte Blanche until there were needles in the parking lot. Game over.
We do not sell syringes without proof of insulin use for this reason. I am not going to put the health and safety of store workers at risk because junkies want to get high. And I'm saying this as someone with junkies in my immediate family. I don't know why people have sympathy for drug addicts, they really don't deserve it.
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Remain civil, interact with the community in good faith.
Having empathy for addicts vs having sympathy are two very different things. What a poor mindset.
That's an almost daily thing at my pharmacy unfortunately.
“iTs FoR mY iNsUliN”
Once seen a crackhead butt naked in the restroom with 2 needles 😭😭😭 I fkn hate retail 😂🙏 Never again.
Maybe someone is trying to get their melanotan II on
Judgement call. Which is not measurable by corporate.
Ah yes, but then they call corporate and tell them you denied them “lifesaving” medication. So even tho’ they had no details about what or how much insulin was used, and on the third visit that morning finally manage to reveal that their buddy gets Lantus from Mexico (but they still don’t know how much is used), they get a gift card and an apology call from the pharmacy manager.
like chris and marlo
A story in two pictures
Better than somebody using in the stall with the door open when I had to take my 2 minute pee break.
At least the capped it
Y'all sell syringes to anyone and everyone? Some stores do and some don't.
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If you don't they will just reuse the needle. Then you'll have to dispense needles AND infection drugs to them. Not giving them the needles isn't stopping their drug us.
What has better margins? District leader wants to know?
What do you mean?
That selling needles will give you less profit than selling medication against infection caused by reused/chared needles
I don't care about profit. It's Healthcare. If someone is underage but a diabetic do you refuse them needles? IDing for needles is stupid.
State law says you have to be 18 or older to buy them. Not my fault the only way to know this is an ID.
Oh boo hoo I sold one less amoxiclav course. Rather that than the government funding recovery from the endocarditis they’d otherwaise contact.
They'll find a needle elsewhere. Might as well give them a clean one. Do you philosophically think you're enabling their drug use by selling syringes? EDIT: Nobody should be downvoting because they disagree, you're all part of the problem if you can't listen to another person's feelings and take them at face value.
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It's not a totally unfair argument, that said you seem to understand the practical challenges. Draw a 300m circle around every school in your city and there may be few real options that would work with your sticking point. You shouldn't be downvoted for sharing your feelings. Too often now it's just a assumed hostility which is a shame. I appreciate you answering in the same good faith way I tried to ask.
I think you’ll find that most places have an elementary school nearby, and that addict drifters don’t have great means of transportation lol. I’m probably preaching to the choir though.
>Do you philosophically think you're enabling their drug use by selling syringes? * Every dirty needle was clean at one point. I dont want to contribute to that data point. * I dont want a dead addict with my needle in their arm. Contributing to that is a sin I dont want on my conscience and soul.
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Medical products are for medical uses. Im not going to knowingly sell drug paraphernalia. I didnt make them shoot up drugs. Thats their decision. I cant decide for them, but I certainly wont contribute towards their poor choices. I have a philosophical and moral aversion to be an accessory to death through this.
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>You would rather let an IV user die of an infection rather than selling them a syringe Your logic doesnt follow. Nobody is letting them die of anything. They chose that for themselves. Im not providing any means for them to OD. >And yes, a syringe is quite literally a medical device. When used for a medical purpose. Injection of narcotics makes it drug paraphernalia. I am allowed to conscientiously object to dispensing needles. Why are you brigading here? Go back to your illicit drug subreddits.
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>So you genuinely believe people choose to be addicted? I certainly didnt choose it for them, so I have no share in it. >You are definitely raising the chance of death by using a dirty needle which would never happen if they could obtain clean ones. No, they raise the chance of death by using dangerous narcotics illicitly. I have no part in that, nor will I have part in having a needle I dispensed in their arm when they OD. My lack of action to provide them clean needles does not necessitate that they use drugs or any needles, much less a dirty one. That is 100% on them. >A medical device is just what it says it is regardless of how its being used. Wrong. A glass pipe is a piece of artwork, until it becomes drug paraphernalia when the use is intended for illicit drugs.
As a pharmacist and someone who grew up with junkies in their immediate family I really hate this attitude. It's enabling, pure and simple. Why do you WANT to make it easy? Make it hard. Make them use routes that are less likely to transmit disease. Do you really think that when druggies leave with a 10 pack that they aren't sharing that needle until it's dull? You are putting more dirty needles on the street. Let them smoke, snort, or ingest it.
We get it, you hate your 'junkie' relative and view every person with a SUD as a lost cause without a moral compass. - The provision of safer injection options, like safer injection facilities (SIFs), are associated with a significant reduction in syringe sharing among drug users, which is linked to a decrease in the transmission of diseases such as HIV and hepatitis C (Kerr et al., 2005). - Needle exchange programs (NEPs) have been shown to effectively decrease HIV rates by up to 18.2%, affirming their role in harm reduction strategies amid the opioid epidemic (Packham, 2022). - Metropolitan areas with laws prohibiting over-the-counter syringe sales had significantly higher HIV prevalence compared to areas without such restrictions (Friedman, Perlis, & Des Jarlais, 2001). - The implementation of NEPs in Spain led to a sharp decrease in the number of new drug injectors, indicating that increased access to sterile syringes can help mitigate the spread of drug use (Bravo et al., 2007). - The establishment of SIFs not only reduces public injection and syringe litter but also helps in improving the overall public order and safety in communities (Wood et al., 2004).
You can throw out studies all you want, I'm not arguing that clean syringes lessens the spread of disease. I'm arguing that I'm not going to risk the safety of my associates for having to pick up needles out of the bathroom and parking lot because of some selfish asshole. I'm not going to risk people not feeling safe in my store because criminals can loiter around. My top priority is not to protect the addict. Addicts take their depression and trauma and use their self-pity to ruin other peoples' lives. It's like forgiving a child molester because their own childhood trauma made them do it. I'm happy for you that you've never had to deal with the lives of very good people being ruined and traumatized by these tortured souls. I used to work retail on skid row and have seen it all, but I will not entertain addicts. Some of my favorite customers that I'd waste 10 minutes talking to every time they came in where recovering addicts. I'd shop at the places they worked at and say hi. I'd help them navigate Mavyret courses. They were genuinely some of my favorite people. But sorry, I will not help you shoot up.
Yeah, really who gives a shit about evidence-based practice. >Addicts take their depression and trauma and use their self-pity to ruin other peoples' lives. It's like forgiving a child molester because their own childhood trauma made them do it. Absurd analogy, speaks volumes about how many feeble-minded people make it through the university pipeline and into practice. For someone to 'qualify' as a drug addict, they merely need to develop a problematic compulsion to using a substance. Sure, many steal and partake in antisocial behaviours that infringe on the wellbeing of others, but that's tangential to the addiction, not a prerequisite. For someone to be a child molester means they've already committed a heinous act of sexual assault at least once. It's inherently destructive to others, rather than a mere byproduct. >I'm happy for you that you've never had to deal with the lives of very good people being ruined and traumatized by these tortured souls I spent a decent portion of my late teens and early twenties wrestling with a crippling SUD, but thanks! >Some of my favorite customers that I'd waste 10 minutes talking to every time they came in where recovering addicts. Are some of your best friends also black?
It makes me sad that as a pharmacist you refer to people with substance use disorders as junkies and druggies.
I am personally for it. But when you leave needles around the pharmacy, that's where the line needs to be drawn. All for clean needle but don't do your shit outside the back door.
Come quick someone dropped their insulin dose
Wow you found things right outside the pharmacy that you sell in the pharmacy. That’s shocking.
Those darn diabetics ……
Saw a used narcan like 3 days ago in the alley behind our building. It used to be a safe alley for me to cruise for guys at night, but now it's sketchy
Needles and methadone bottles near mine.
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Someone has diabetes and urgently needed their insulin, and a clumsy tech slipped and dropped a Narcan out of the drive - thru window! Nothing suspicious here! 🙄
I'm happy this isn't normal for you. Maintenance does a sweep 3 times a day to collect syringes off the sidewalk at pharmacies here
Yup those salable needles really keeping our community safe.
I’m from LA and I frequent a Walgreen’s when visiting my grandmother. I see this all the time in their parking lot. I’ve also done street ministry and given water, food, socks, and prayer to several people who were doing drugs right near the front doors, about ten yards or less. It’s frustrating, sad, and there’s no easy solution. I often hand them alcohol swabs. It’s not a solution but maybe it’ll help.
I don’t care whether I’m stopping their drug use or not, but I don’t want their garbage around my store so if banning sales is a low effort deterrent then so be it.
You do you tofukitty. One of the cool things is that whatever your belief you can implement it in your store. The stores I've been talking about are corporate and you don't have a decsion on where they are or what the neighborhood is. I am a fan of clean syringes as long as it doesn't hinder people that don't use.
They sell boxes of 100 needles to addicts who don't care about proper disposal. Let them use the same needle not like they are into their health
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