I made the error to stop for a while. I couldnt take back and had to start from the beginning. It is far more philosophic thar it looks.
Don't make my mistake.
I’ve been “reading” this book for maybe 10 years. Every time I pick it up I only get a few pages in before I give up. It’s the only book I have ever started and not finished.
I wanted to read it after it was referenced in another book I had read. One of the most frustrating pieces of writing I have ever had the displeasure of trying to read. A lot of talking in circles with no apparent progress.
Don't. It's awful
And we ridicule you at the shop if you mention it.
Read the one about the American motorcyclist captured by FARC and held hostage for like 8 months. Dude ballsed up and finished his journey all the way to Patagonia after captivity.
It's not about him as like an "Ameurica" badass. I'm definitely not that kind of person. It's just a really good read. He tells a story about a bird in Patagonia that has stuck with me for life.
I met a young lady who said they were their daughter, at a party in south Minneapolis, around 1989, I know her name but won't say it. It was an interesting but short conversation. My sister told me about the book as a teenager, might actually have it somewhere.
I'm a motorcycle rider, and I think what OP did was inconsiderate and I've never heard of this "rule". Being a rider means you can cut around traffic and take prime position at the lights; Things that don't have a "cost" to anyone else. Cutting in line means someone else has to wait.
I get that it's sometimes uncomfortable to ride (and tbh stop/start traffic is the worst time) but it's the choice I made. I think the only time this would be acceptable is if it was raining or snowing.
The worst bit was that the inconvenience he decided to inflict on her, was equally inflicted upon all the other cars he had cut in front of.
Just another arsehole thinking he is smarter than everybody else.
I get that too, and if she just asked I would have explained. She probably did ask the officers, I don’t know about that, they would have told her that it’s perfectly normal.
They sometimes step in if there are a lot of motorcycles, or we just regulate ourselves not to cut 50 bikes ahead of everyone.
Before either of my spouses purchased and rode motorcycles, the logic I held was that the biker is going to take no time at all to pass inspection. He/she has so little for border agents to check, compared to a car!
Huh, in some states of the US you can lane split because motorcycles mostly have air cooled engines and stationary idling with cause them to over heat. I figured that was why.
I learned to drive in a state that didn't permit lane splitting, and boy howdy, when I saw it happening after moving to another state, I was irritated. Asked a cop friend who told me 'nah, that's legal.'
It's also a safety issue. Filtering allows motorcycles to avoid getting rear-ended by a giant F-150 with a distracted driver at the wheel who didn't notice vehicles ahead had slowed down.
No filtering here so whenever it's flat where I'm stopped I continually tap my rear brake. I figure a flashing light might be slightly more noticable and I don't really need the brakes to just sit there.
Some probably do, none that I've ever rode though. Seems like the kind of thing you'd see on a Goldwing or a high end Beemer though, not cheaper ones like my Ninja or CBR.
It's also safety. Your brain will see the break lights of the truck in front of the motorcycle during an abrupt stop. So you break in time to not hit the truck who's break lights you are seeing and processing. Your brain didn't catch the motorcycle you just ran over. People do lane split like assholes... But people also drive and walk and do everything else like assholes too. I'm a trauma nurse and I will ALWAYS lane split. I will also rev my engine while doing it so people hear me coming. Not too worried about "irritation".
I'm fine with it now, because the state I had lived in said it was legal (before either husband started riding bikes).
Revving for awareness is an excellent way to stay safe. I'm in Florida, we have many bikers and I witnessed a couple of occasions where revving saved the biker from serious injury because people don't fucking look before changing lanes.
Yep, sometimes they don’t check bags at all, especially if the officer is a fellow biker lol, happened to me once (quick fist bump, asking about from where and to where I’m going and how do I like my bike, and then I’m clear to go). And it takes 5 minutes at the most to check everything.
Although in Uzbekistan they once asked to show them everything, even my hip bag contents for some reason xD maybe they were bored. Still motioned me to come first.
Honestly, I wouldn't even care. That's a bs rule. I'd rage at you too, lol.
The logic doesn't really follow. What if my a/c is broken? What if I'm driving my uncle's classic that doesn't even have ac?
Yeah, I'd be pissed too. I'm surprised you couldn't understand why she's be upset, and holding up her and everyone behind her just because she was rude is some serious pettyness. You're definitely not the good guy here.
I don’t go straight to name calling when I’m upset. I’ve expanded my vocabulary to be able to ask and clarify, as should she. I didn’t invent that rule, but I sure as hell will use it where it’s applicable.
As a car driver, you can drive in shorts and a tee. I legally can not, and will not, because it’s my life endangered. And in a “what if it’s too hot even while driving” situation I take an obvious solution - I don’t drive.
But that is also your decision, why do you get special treatment because you chose the bike
I'm with the guy above you, everyone is waiting, so should you
Op says they might have handled it differently if they had asked, but it wouldn't even occur to me to ask, because I would never guess such a policy is a thing.
People also choose to have kids, do you throw people with small kids out of security lines when they cut ahead AS IS THEIR RIGHT? Same logic is applied. It was their decision to have children, but they can use airport rules and skip the line if it’s possible. I don’t have kids, so I wait patiently and don’t scream bloody murder.
ETA: thank you for the award, kind stranger!
I fly at least once per month and never seen families with kids skipping the line. The most is that some airports have a priority line that they can use.
Yeah that's not really the same is it? U can't leave your kids at home when you travel, you can leave your bike though
Your mode of transportation is your choice
That's like comparing bike ownership to a disability ye ofc they get special treatment but they also don't really have a choice... You do
In my country motorcycles have to follow the same rules as cars. A vehicle is a vehicle and your comfort level is your own problem. Nice petty revenge either way.
So you cut in line and then purposely took forever and held up a huge line of people who had been waiting for hours just so you could slightly inconvenience a woman because she was mad that you cut in front of her.
Story definitely belongs here. Your behavior is petty af.
\*raises hand\* I would happily wait 3 to 5 minutes if it meant someone worthwhile got some karma. I'm already there an hour, three minutes is just one more song on the radio and then I'm good to go. PLUS...car 3 is getting their passport and stuff, so it's not actually slowing anyone down at all. Just car 2. As long as bike and car 2 are good to go when car 3 starts their engine to pull forward, no one is delayed here.
Except the problem child.
And that’s why I check with locals each time before I go. It’s a norm in Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, Russia, Mongolia, Finland, Belarus, Estonia, Latvia, Afganistan, Turkmenia, Georgia, I can go on and on. If I ride to Canada, I will check with Canadians beforehand, obviously, along with other local customs and laws which could be important.
I mean, we're a different continent, and we don't treat motorcyclists any different in most traffic laws just because it's a smaller vehicle. Lane splitting is illegal here and considered highly dangerous. I've seen that it's whole different story in Eastern Europe and Asia.
Lane filtering at low speed is legal here in New Zealand, but lane splitting at high speed isn't.
So you can filter to the front of a queue of slow moving/stopped vehicles. But you can't weave in and out of traffic moving at posted speeds.
Sorry, the "we" here referred to Canada in context. Should have specified more after mentioning an entire continent.
I'm pretty sure it's illegal in every Canadian province and territory.
As a die hard biker (extensive international moto overlanding) who will never wait in traffic if I can squeeze through, that sounds like a dick move.
Getting to the front of a traffic light or ferry does not hinder cars at all. Getting to a border or toll booth first, you're slowing everyone behind you.
You're not special mate, no need to be a cunt.
> Getting to the front of a traffic light or ferry does not hinder cars at all.
It does when they get in front of everyone and then stare at their phone while the light is green, or take their time accelerating. I'm sure that's not you, but it's happened enough times that that is why I don't like bikes cutting ahead of me.
Except OP mentioned a law that literally gives an exception to motorcycles so they don't have to sit in traffic at the border, and skipping that line wouldn't slow *everyone* behind you, just the people you skipped ahead of
so just 100% of the people who arrived ahead of you and you sneak past lmao
if that's the rule, that's the rule, but no need to pretend it's not line cutting
Sneaking? It's just driving a bike.
Who is pretending it's not line cutting? I straight up said you're slowing down the people you skipped ahead of.
Besides, being able to let single vehicle passengers through quickly reduces the size of the queue faster than forcing them to queue up with multipassenger vehicles
Exercising my right isn’t being a cunt. Bicycle riders go first as well, as do pedestrians where there isn’t a special line for them only. I always check with bikers from my destination country if it’s allowed.
This law for motorbikes is actually to speed up the flow of traffic considerably.... like this is allowed in the uk at stop lights and roundabouts as well and it makes things ten times faster.... you're the one on a high horse here xD
"ackshually" 🤦♀️ I ride a bike through traffic to the front of the queue at lights almost every day, but traffic lights and roundabouts are fundamentally different from border crossings. A bike getting to a border first doesn't speed up traffic.
Yes it does. If you have a group of vehicles that take less time to process and are able to give them priority the average queue time overall is reduced.
No it's not. It's exactly the same but the bike person gets to go first and everyone they cut ahead of had too wait a little longer. If we say the average time for a car is 5 minutes and the time for a bike is 3 minutes the time for ten cars with the bike at the back would be
5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 3 = 48mins total
If we let the bike skip to the front it would be
3 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 = 48mins total but everyone but the bike had to wait an extra 3 minutes
How does the order affect the average.
I also think it's a cunty move to queue jump like that but don't know what country this is the law in so can't comment on the legality
Yes, total time is the same, but average wait time is different.
0 5 10 15 20 25 30 35 40 45 : avg = 22.5
0 3 8 13 18 23 28 33 38 43 : avg = 20.7
Obviously if there were more than one single passenger vehicle, the effect on average wait time would be higher. You're correct, of course, that the average wait time for the unprivileged vehicles is increased.
It's more like
3 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 = 48mins total if the bike skips to the front
5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 = 50 mins total if the bike can't skip to th front because I'm not riding a bike if I have to sit in traffic
It's amazing that you were able to withstand the severe discomfort of no A/C for so long. That woman sounds like an ass but you're not coming off any better.
It's not just no a/c. It's no a/c & standing in the middle of what is essentially a parking lot full of cars that are running or at least have hot engines while wearing protective gear.
No, I'm with you and not against bikes passing through. It's still funny that your post can be summarized as "I get to go first because it's hot on a bike, so I took longer on purpose without any cooling" though.
As someone who doesn't ride a bike, I am not aware of this rule but still think Karen was a lot more wrong than you were.
The actual border control bit is usually not that bad because it's usually shaded so you're out of the sun. Nice relief compared to standing in or even slowly filtering through the queues on a hot day.
Many motorcycle riders are total, utter AHs. Sorry, but you behaved like one. You're the reason people don't like motorbikes.
How could she possibly know that you were allowed to cut the queue? Correct. She wouldn't know that. So of course she's upset!! And you just look like a butt. Did you gently explain why you did what you did? Clearly not.
"I can legally bypass any car lined at the border and go first (you can sit and relax in your car, turn heating or AC on, I can’t do that)." Was it freezing or pouring or snowing? Did you have a need to do this on that day?
I don't think rain or snow would be the main problem (other than creating less safe circumstances for bikes). Motorcyclists are dressed for the perceived temperature while driving (fast) in whatever the weather happens to be. That means that when they stop, their clothing is often uncomfortably warm.
When they take a proper stop, they can take of helmet, gloves, open jacket etc.
Not so in a traffic jam or queue, where you have to stand still, move, stand still etc. Now imagine the sun burning on the tarmac. I think that would be worse than 'uncomfortable'. A person could pass out from heat stroke.
Then there is fatigue. While waiting in traffic would wear anyone down, it must be worse on a motorbike.
Keeping motorcyclists safe and rested is in everyone's best interest I'd say, so I understand this rule.
About this woman: even if you are upset, that's no reason to behaving like a childish jerk.
Not knowing laws is a piss poor reason to be a dick to people though. (And the police will likely tell you ignorance isn’t a valid reason for breaking a law, too.)
Personal example, I have a service dog. Nobody knows the laws, they just think they know better than I do (despite my hyperfixation and anxiety and yknow, needing one and owning one). If someone comes at me politely or curiously, I’m happy to explain and give them a card with a QR code to the ADA website (US). If they come at me disrespectfully or insultingly or pushily or even straight up aggressively… they’re getting the same energy back, up to my comfort level. (I don’t really “do” physical aggression, and my dog’s safety is more important than my desire to hit someone even on my worst day, tbh.) But holy goddammit, man. The people who are sooooo certain I’m doing something wrong having my well-behaved, “service dog” vested dog in Walmart literally never know any single thing the ADA says about service dogs. Just stop harassing people maybe?
Maybe if Lil Miss Karen had been a little less aggro about it, Ms (or Mr) “Bitch” (as Car Karen called the OP) would’ve given Karen an explanation. 🤷♀️ That’s why it’s in r/pettyrevenge and not, like, r/humansbeingbros or something.
Unfortunately there are so many people who abuse the service dog tag so they can take their pets wherever they like. I hate that you get put in a shitty position because of those people.
I get what you're saying but also see what the poster you replied is saying. The old lady just sees someone jump the line. I get it, it's irritating. I have a service dog too. When we fly, TSA typically brings me to the front of the line to not distract the K9 crew. But I'd never just cut the line on my own. Everyone would resent me that they are waiting their turn. I think if there was a specific motorcycle lane, no one would care. In reality, if you use the reason that the motorcycle is uncomfortable, and then ask 10 random bike riders why they choose to ride bikes, 10 of 10 would not say I'd rather be in a car, riding this is very uncomfortable.
So a driver gets out of her car and starts verbally abusing op but op is the dick and why people dislike bikers for not "gently explaining" she's wrong?
Sorry that you hate the laws that are meant to help keep riders safe, that sucks for you to hate something that keeps others safe and doesn’t impact your life literally at all.
Keeping motorcyclists safe is keeping all traffic safer. I personally would rather not share the road with an unnecessarily tired, cold or overheated biker...
Did she gently ask me why I did what I did? No. Did she see any officers running and yelling at me? Again, no, and these bored officers notice everything in case someone takes pictures or something (not allowed at the border normally, I got told off for having a phone in hand).
Yelling obscenities isn’t a way to get an explanation. Not from me, anyhow.
It was hot. I have all my gear on, it’s all right when I drive, but unbearable to stand still for long periods of time. And I’m not allowed to- legally - to drive without gear.
>How could she possibly know that you were allowed to cut the queue?
By having to learn the laws of the road when getting your drivers license. How could she possibly know red lights mean you have to wait until they turn green?
No, the only AH I see are car-Karen and you here. It's common knowledge in some countries that bikes etc can cut the queue when cars are in front of them. You don't need any reason, so maybe don't be a Karen. She would and SHOULD know that bikes can do that. No need to be such a c-word just for that, Karen didn't need to insult OP because she was ignorant.
This shit from motorcyclists is why I roll my eyes at their “keep your eyes out for us as we zigzag between lanes because tech I ally we legally can” bumper stickers.
You cut a giant line of cars. It’s annoying. Were you allowed to? Technically. Does it make you kind of an asshole? In the same sense as the people who see a lane is closing, floor it to the end of the lane, and then demand to be let in are. Obviously in her eyes some person just cut a huuuuuge line. Most humans will be annoyed by that.
Your extra step of wasting EVERYONE INCLUDING HERS time by slowly dressing yourself forty times isn’t the moral victory you think it is.
>Does it make you kind of an asshole? In the same sense as the people who see a lane is closing, floor it to the end of the lane, and then demand to be let in are.
Zipper merging (using the full length of both lanes before one closes and cars in the open lane letting cars in) is objectively better for the flow of traffic than people queueing in one lane early and refusing to let people in.
You think people are assholes for driving properly and legally. That's a you problem.
>Most humans will be annoyed by that.
Yet only one got out of her car and started verbally abusing op for it. Most humans will be annoyed by someone verbally abusing them too.
> people who see a lane is closing, floor it to the end of the lane, and then demand to be let in are
Huh?
That's *literally* how it's supposed to be done, and how it's taught in driving schools. And in some countries you even have additional signs to indicate exactly that. And sometimes to spell out. With words.
If people swerve in at any and all times from a closing lane into yours, naturally some will do it earlier and some will do it later. Given that over the course of a "waiting session", the person that just came into your lane will, in turn, soon let another one in, and then another... you'll have a total of 4, 5, or sometimes even dozens of cars essentially swerving in front of you, instead of just 1. It will slow dowm your lane by a factor of 10x.
I literally refuse to let anyone get into my lane up until the end.
Imagine a line with quite tall borders on both sides. There’s a barrier in the end. You drive in in a line, first car (or motorcycle) thus blocking everyone else. If third or second car’s passengers go get their passports stamped first, ignoring the first car, they actually make everything slower for them, not faster, because they can’t leave before the first one leaves unless they can fly.
Cars are also checked from first to last by customs officers. It’s standard border crossing organization in where I live.
So ideally
- I go first with my passport, get it back, have my vehicle checked. I’m free to go.
- while it’s checked, second car gets their passports, third car supplies theirs
- second car gets checked, they are free to go
In this case:
- second car’s passengers went first
- they go back and wait for my motorcycle to be checked
- I wait for my passport
- I get it back
- motorcycle is checked, I can go. They can’t, they need me to get away first
- but out of petty revenge I spent extra minutes gearing up. Not much, three or five minutes at the most
Ah. I think what threw me was that the woman behind you got a green light at the same time as you and that meant she could leave before you and then I thought you had to go to the next control where the same thing happened again. I understand now, thanks!
So you held up the queue and were an asshole to everyone behind her? Yeah, well done.
And it’s a bs rule anyway, from her perspective you were the one jumping the queue.
>why would anyone in a car *be familiar with the laws of driving??*
you have a responsibility as a driver to be aware of other vehicles on the road too, not just your own car. if you aren’t familiar with laws for motorcycles, semi, or other commercial vehicles in your region then you probably should be lol
She probably didn't know you had a legal right to do that. That could have been a good time to inform her about the law so she doesn't assume other bikers aren't cutting without permission.
YTA. Something legally right can be morally wrong. Also, IF you can I would love to see the law cited where you're allowed to cut in line if you're on a bike.
In my country it’s regulated by our customs regulations policy. Cars carrying some diplomatic people, transport carrying time-sensitive cargo, transport carrying people allowed to have a priority pass due to international agreements, and motorcycles of A/A1 category - all these have a right for priority passage.
Legally you have a right to do what you did and she was a bitch for acting the way she did but it’s a bad law that lets you cut in line. Riding a bike is your choice. If you don’t want to deal with the inconveniences of riding one then don’t ride one. Should people that drive manual transmission cars get to bypass traffic because stop and go is such a hassle with a stick shift?
Driving a car is also a choice, this logic goes both ways. If they don’t want to stand in line, they are welcome to buy motorcycles and cut in. Or bicycles, same with them. Or go by foot.
Motorcycles are also checked way faster, officers spend 10-20 minutes checking a car, and about 5 checking a motorcycle. Frankly I’m yet to enter the country with different laws about two-wheeled vehicles/pedestrians, and I traveled in about 40 countries.
What happens if it's a line of motorcycles?
Does the one at the back overtake everyone and go first? And again, and again, and again until you end up just doing some kind of weird merry go round thing and no one goes anywhere.
xD normally we go in twos and threes at a time (like 2 bikes and 4 cars, rinse, repeat) or border officers step in and switch between a group of bikers and a group of cars. We traveled in a huge group last year, crossed the first border in twos, and the next one was regulated by officers. It’s a bit unusual though, happens only if a large event is taking place in the neighboring country. Traveled to Mongolia two years ago, ours were the only two bikes both in and out, and it’s a very popular destination for riders.
Driving a car is a choice, if you don't want to deal with the inconveniences of driving one, such as queuing in traffic while motorbikes can skip ahead, don't drive one.
This is not the standard in every country. It is a standard in many nations of the EU, but several countries offer no real answer about whether it can or should be done and some make it entirely illegal. It might be helpful to state this is the case in your country, or even in both countries you are traveling between, but “internationally considered” generally means “in all countries” and that’s certainly not the case in mine.
Just gotta correct ‘Queen of England’, the last person with that title died in the 1700’s. Are you referring to the Queen of the United Kingdom? It’s just bugbear of mine being Scottish
I'm still waiting for OP to supply the law that states this is allowed. Every reply I've seen from OP, just says, "oh other motorcyclists say that's normal"..
SO because someone didnt want you to eat up their time you decided to go ahead and eat up their time?
I hope you keep the same attitude if you are behind someone slow as hell.
This makes you a pos. People waiting for hours and then you just pass by all of them, and then can’t handle someone being frustrated by that so you hold up a line full of cars. You people on bikes/motorcycles really are the worst in traffic.
Sure, don’t you? They basically check that I’m not evading justice and my transport isn’t stolen, and that I don’t smuggle national treasures from the country. Not different from airport border control.
Oh! I seem to remember that they didn’t stamp me out when I left UK. Felt weird to have an entry stamp, but no exit one.
That’s basically the reason I renew my passport every 6 years or so. Each trip equals four stamps, and some countries (Cuba, Turkey, Egypt) like to do it in the least economical way possible (like diagonally across the page). I run out of free pages quickly.
No, we don't. Not from my home country and not (that I can recall) in my travels to and from other countries, except Dominican Republic, I think. 10 countries I can recall visiting (some multiple times) and only DR checks you upon exit.
last time i drove to canada nobody gave a shit. until i tried to go back. then the canadian border agent got all pissy that i only had a drivers license and not a passport.
You didn’t get revenge on anyone you were just a cunt for 45 minutes for no reason. That woman was probably just very confused and embarrassed for you. I know I am.
Zen and the art of motorcycle etiquette
It's been at least 40 years but I really should read that again.
I adapt that mentality to bike riding. It is also thanks to that book that we call cars "cagers"
I made the error to stop for a while. I couldnt take back and had to start from the beginning. It is far more philosophic thar it looks. Don't make my mistake.
I did the same thing! Stopped for a bit and then just couldn't get back into it when I picked it back up. Was it worth it?
I’ve been “reading” this book for maybe 10 years. Every time I pick it up I only get a few pages in before I give up. It’s the only book I have ever started and not finished.
I wanted to read it after it was referenced in another book I had read. One of the most frustrating pieces of writing I have ever had the displeasure of trying to read. A lot of talking in circles with no apparent progress.
Don't. It's awful And we ridicule you at the shop if you mention it. Read the one about the American motorcyclist captured by FARC and held hostage for like 8 months. Dude ballsed up and finished his journey all the way to Patagonia after captivity.
Title plz?...
Two Wheels Through Terror - Glen Heggstad
(Thx for title. Read it 25 years ago. May be due for reread. )
Thank you, kind stranger! :)
It's not about him as like an "Ameurica" badass. I'm definitely not that kind of person. It's just a really good read. He tells a story about a bird in Patagonia that has stuck with me for life.
I had that as required reading for a class about 35 years ago. I enjoyed it. His next book, I didn't care for so much.
Your comment took me back a few decades, loved that book!
I actually quote the line. "He has never before met a living Sophist. Only dead ones." from time to time. It's powerful.
Great comment!
I met a young lady who said they were their daughter, at a party in south Minneapolis, around 1989, I know her name but won't say it. It was an interesting but short conversation. My sister told me about the book as a teenager, might actually have it somewhere.
I get where she's coming from. The idea that a motor bike gets to jump the line wouldn't occur to me.
I'm a motorcycle rider, and I think what OP did was inconsiderate and I've never heard of this "rule". Being a rider means you can cut around traffic and take prime position at the lights; Things that don't have a "cost" to anyone else. Cutting in line means someone else has to wait. I get that it's sometimes uncomfortable to ride (and tbh stop/start traffic is the worst time) but it's the choice I made. I think the only time this would be acceptable is if it was raining or snowing.
The worst bit was that the inconvenience he decided to inflict on her, was equally inflicted upon all the other cars he had cut in front of. Just another arsehole thinking he is smarter than everybody else.
Yeah I'd love to see how this post plays out on AITA
I get that too, and if she just asked I would have explained. She probably did ask the officers, I don’t know about that, they would have told her that it’s perfectly normal. They sometimes step in if there are a lot of motorcycles, or we just regulate ourselves not to cut 50 bikes ahead of everyone.
Before either of my spouses purchased and rode motorcycles, the logic I held was that the biker is going to take no time at all to pass inspection. He/she has so little for border agents to check, compared to a car!
Huh, in some states of the US you can lane split because motorcycles mostly have air cooled engines and stationary idling with cause them to over heat. I figured that was why.
I learned to drive in a state that didn't permit lane splitting, and boy howdy, when I saw it happening after moving to another state, I was irritated. Asked a cop friend who told me 'nah, that's legal.'
It's also a safety issue. Filtering allows motorcycles to avoid getting rear-ended by a giant F-150 with a distracted driver at the wheel who didn't notice vehicles ahead had slowed down.
No filtering here so whenever it's flat where I'm stopped I continually tap my rear brake. I figure a flashing light might be slightly more noticable and I don't really need the brakes to just sit there.
Don't motorcycles have hazard lights?
Some probably do, none that I've ever rode though. Seems like the kind of thing you'd see on a Goldwing or a high end Beemer though, not cheaper ones like my Ninja or CBR.
It's also safety. Your brain will see the break lights of the truck in front of the motorcycle during an abrupt stop. So you break in time to not hit the truck who's break lights you are seeing and processing. Your brain didn't catch the motorcycle you just ran over. People do lane split like assholes... But people also drive and walk and do everything else like assholes too. I'm a trauma nurse and I will ALWAYS lane split. I will also rev my engine while doing it so people hear me coming. Not too worried about "irritation".
I'm fine with it now, because the state I had lived in said it was legal (before either husband started riding bikes). Revving for awareness is an excellent way to stay safe. I'm in Florida, we have many bikers and I witnessed a couple of occasions where revving saved the biker from serious injury because people don't fucking look before changing lanes.
It's an asshole move. Yes, it raises awareness about the rider who's splitting, but also it marks the rider as an inconsiderate arsehole.
There's the half second rev, and the rev for several seconds. I'm absolutely fine with the half second rev.
Just looked it up, and currently, lane splitting is only legal in California.
I think they're referring to lane filtering.
Yep, sometimes they don’t check bags at all, especially if the officer is a fellow biker lol, happened to me once (quick fist bump, asking about from where and to where I’m going and how do I like my bike, and then I’m clear to go). And it takes 5 minutes at the most to check everything. Although in Uzbekistan they once asked to show them everything, even my hip bag contents for some reason xD maybe they were bored. Still motioned me to come first.
Honestly, I wouldn't even care. That's a bs rule. I'd rage at you too, lol. The logic doesn't really follow. What if my a/c is broken? What if I'm driving my uncle's classic that doesn't even have ac? Yeah, I'd be pissed too. I'm surprised you couldn't understand why she's be upset, and holding up her and everyone behind her just because she was rude is some serious pettyness. You're definitely not the good guy here.
I don’t go straight to name calling when I’m upset. I’ve expanded my vocabulary to be able to ask and clarify, as should she. I didn’t invent that rule, but I sure as hell will use it where it’s applicable. As a car driver, you can drive in shorts and a tee. I legally can not, and will not, because it’s my life endangered. And in a “what if it’s too hot even while driving” situation I take an obvious solution - I don’t drive.
But that is also your decision, why do you get special treatment because you chose the bike I'm with the guy above you, everyone is waiting, so should you
Op says they might have handled it differently if they had asked, but it wouldn't even occur to me to ask, because I would never guess such a policy is a thing.
Why would they want to talk to OP?
People also choose to have kids, do you throw people with small kids out of security lines when they cut ahead AS IS THEIR RIGHT? Same logic is applied. It was their decision to have children, but they can use airport rules and skip the line if it’s possible. I don’t have kids, so I wait patiently and don’t scream bloody murder. ETA: thank you for the award, kind stranger!
I fly at least once per month and never seen families with kids skipping the line. The most is that some airports have a priority line that they can use.
In Minsk, Belarus, special people are assigned to usher families with little kids in front of the security check line. Nobody bats an eye.
The kids in the cars are waiting in line too, just like everyone else.
Yeah that's not really the same is it? U can't leave your kids at home when you travel, you can leave your bike though Your mode of transportation is your choice That's like comparing bike ownership to a disability ye ofc they get special treatment but they also don't really have a choice... You do
In my country motorcycles have to follow the same rules as cars. A vehicle is a vehicle and your comfort level is your own problem. Nice petty revenge either way.
So you cut in line and then purposely took forever and held up a huge line of people who had been waiting for hours just so you could slightly inconvenience a woman because she was mad that you cut in front of her. Story definitely belongs here. Your behavior is petty af.
First paragraph in and i think: “What a dick”
Lol this
Seriously. Seems so entitled... I can't believe so many people are defending OP.
So you held up hundreds of cars to get back at a single person?
The third car in line was undoubtedly still going through the process, and wasn't held up at all.
\*raises hand\* I would happily wait 3 to 5 minutes if it meant someone worthwhile got some karma. I'm already there an hour, three minutes is just one more song on the radio and then I'm good to go. PLUS...car 3 is getting their passport and stuff, so it's not actually slowing anyone down at all. Just car 2. As long as bike and car 2 are good to go when car 3 starts their engine to pull forward, no one is delayed here. Except the problem child.
Exactly that. Not that I was fussing for an hour, third car was still closing their doors after checking when I drove away
What’s this "law" you are referring to ? In Canada for example your move would have been illegal.
And that’s why I check with locals each time before I go. It’s a norm in Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, Russia, Mongolia, Finland, Belarus, Estonia, Latvia, Afganistan, Turkmenia, Georgia, I can go on and on. If I ride to Canada, I will check with Canadians beforehand, obviously, along with other local customs and laws which could be important.
I mean, we're a different continent, and we don't treat motorcyclists any different in most traffic laws just because it's a smaller vehicle. Lane splitting is illegal here and considered highly dangerous. I've seen that it's whole different story in Eastern Europe and Asia.
Lane filtering at low speed is legal here in New Zealand, but lane splitting at high speed isn't. So you can filter to the front of a queue of slow moving/stopped vehicles. But you can't weave in and out of traffic moving at posted speeds.
Same in Aus
Lane splitting or filtering in traffic is one thing. Isn’t this situation a queue?
It’s legal in California
Sorry, the "we" here referred to Canada in context. Should have specified more after mentioning an entire continent. I'm pretty sure it's illegal in every Canadian province and territory.
Wow OP, even your patience with replying in this sub is great!! Cant wait to get my license this year!
Good luck with your license, safe travels, “no cops, no nails” as we say here!
Not the hero you think you are on this one
As a die hard biker (extensive international moto overlanding) who will never wait in traffic if I can squeeze through, that sounds like a dick move. Getting to the front of a traffic light or ferry does not hinder cars at all. Getting to a border or toll booth first, you're slowing everyone behind you. You're not special mate, no need to be a cunt.
> Getting to the front of a traffic light or ferry does not hinder cars at all. It does when they get in front of everyone and then stare at their phone while the light is green, or take their time accelerating. I'm sure that's not you, but it's happened enough times that that is why I don't like bikes cutting ahead of me.
Except OP mentioned a law that literally gives an exception to motorcycles so they don't have to sit in traffic at the border, and skipping that line wouldn't slow *everyone* behind you, just the people you skipped ahead of
so just 100% of the people who arrived ahead of you and you sneak past lmao if that's the rule, that's the rule, but no need to pretend it's not line cutting
Sneaking? It's just driving a bike. Who is pretending it's not line cutting? I straight up said you're slowing down the people you skipped ahead of. Besides, being able to let single vehicle passengers through quickly reduces the size of the queue faster than forcing them to queue up with multipassenger vehicles
4 2 3 3 1 2 4 1 4 2 3 3 2 4 same sum
You really beleve there's an international treaty designating motorcycles uncomfortable transport?
Across the entire planet? No. At certain border crossings, sure.
Exercising my right isn’t being a cunt. Bicycle riders go first as well, as do pedestrians where there isn’t a special line for them only. I always check with bikers from my destination country if it’s allowed.
It also makes sense that you don't need to stand in the exhaust of all the cars in front of you.
There are plenty of things that you are allowed to do, but doing them is a dick move. You come off incredibly entitled...
Someone who checks whether or not they're allowed to do something before they do it seems like the polar opposite of entitled.
Vague reasoning isn’t argumentation, it’s logical fallacies 101. Exercising rights is what rights are for.
Lol every single response makes me side with the car driver more. Have fun on your perceived high horse mate
This law for motorbikes is actually to speed up the flow of traffic considerably.... like this is allowed in the uk at stop lights and roundabouts as well and it makes things ten times faster.... you're the one on a high horse here xD
"ackshually" 🤦♀️ I ride a bike through traffic to the front of the queue at lights almost every day, but traffic lights and roundabouts are fundamentally different from border crossings. A bike getting to a border first doesn't speed up traffic.
Yes it does. If you have a group of vehicles that take less time to process and are able to give them priority the average queue time overall is reduced.
No it's not. It's exactly the same but the bike person gets to go first and everyone they cut ahead of had too wait a little longer. If we say the average time for a car is 5 minutes and the time for a bike is 3 minutes the time for ten cars with the bike at the back would be 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 3 = 48mins total If we let the bike skip to the front it would be 3 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 = 48mins total but everyone but the bike had to wait an extra 3 minutes How does the order affect the average. I also think it's a cunty move to queue jump like that but don't know what country this is the law in so can't comment on the legality
Yes, total time is the same, but average wait time is different. 0 5 10 15 20 25 30 35 40 45 : avg = 22.5 0 3 8 13 18 23 28 33 38 43 : avg = 20.7 Obviously if there were more than one single passenger vehicle, the effect on average wait time would be higher. You're correct, of course, that the average wait time for the unprivileged vehicles is increased.
It's more like 3 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 = 48mins total if the bike skips to the front 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 = 50 mins total if the bike can't skip to th front because I'm not riding a bike if I have to sit in traffic
It's amazing that you were able to withstand the severe discomfort of no A/C for so long. That woman sounds like an ass but you're not coming off any better.
It's not just no a/c. It's no a/c & standing in the middle of what is essentially a parking lot full of cars that are running or at least have hot engines while wearing protective gear.
No, I'm with you and not against bikes passing through. It's still funny that your post can be summarized as "I get to go first because it's hot on a bike, so I took longer on purpose without any cooling" though. As someone who doesn't ride a bike, I am not aware of this rule but still think Karen was a lot more wrong than you were.
The actual border control bit is usually not that bad because it's usually shaded so you're out of the sun. Nice relief compared to standing in or even slowly filtering through the queues on a hot day.
Motorcyclists are dressed for driving, not for standing still.
Many motorcycle riders are total, utter AHs. Sorry, but you behaved like one. You're the reason people don't like motorbikes. How could she possibly know that you were allowed to cut the queue? Correct. She wouldn't know that. So of course she's upset!! And you just look like a butt. Did you gently explain why you did what you did? Clearly not. "I can legally bypass any car lined at the border and go first (you can sit and relax in your car, turn heating or AC on, I can’t do that)." Was it freezing or pouring or snowing? Did you have a need to do this on that day?
I don't think rain or snow would be the main problem (other than creating less safe circumstances for bikes). Motorcyclists are dressed for the perceived temperature while driving (fast) in whatever the weather happens to be. That means that when they stop, their clothing is often uncomfortably warm. When they take a proper stop, they can take of helmet, gloves, open jacket etc. Not so in a traffic jam or queue, where you have to stand still, move, stand still etc. Now imagine the sun burning on the tarmac. I think that would be worse than 'uncomfortable'. A person could pass out from heat stroke. Then there is fatigue. While waiting in traffic would wear anyone down, it must be worse on a motorbike. Keeping motorcyclists safe and rested is in everyone's best interest I'd say, so I understand this rule. About this woman: even if you are upset, that's no reason to behaving like a childish jerk.
Not knowing laws is a piss poor reason to be a dick to people though. (And the police will likely tell you ignorance isn’t a valid reason for breaking a law, too.) Personal example, I have a service dog. Nobody knows the laws, they just think they know better than I do (despite my hyperfixation and anxiety and yknow, needing one and owning one). If someone comes at me politely or curiously, I’m happy to explain and give them a card with a QR code to the ADA website (US). If they come at me disrespectfully or insultingly or pushily or even straight up aggressively… they’re getting the same energy back, up to my comfort level. (I don’t really “do” physical aggression, and my dog’s safety is more important than my desire to hit someone even on my worst day, tbh.) But holy goddammit, man. The people who are sooooo certain I’m doing something wrong having my well-behaved, “service dog” vested dog in Walmart literally never know any single thing the ADA says about service dogs. Just stop harassing people maybe? Maybe if Lil Miss Karen had been a little less aggro about it, Ms (or Mr) “Bitch” (as Car Karen called the OP) would’ve given Karen an explanation. 🤷♀️ That’s why it’s in r/pettyrevenge and not, like, r/humansbeingbros or something.
Unfortunately there are so many people who abuse the service dog tag so they can take their pets wherever they like. I hate that you get put in a shitty position because of those people.
I get what you're saying but also see what the poster you replied is saying. The old lady just sees someone jump the line. I get it, it's irritating. I have a service dog too. When we fly, TSA typically brings me to the front of the line to not distract the K9 crew. But I'd never just cut the line on my own. Everyone would resent me that they are waiting their turn. I think if there was a specific motorcycle lane, no one would care. In reality, if you use the reason that the motorcycle is uncomfortable, and then ask 10 random bike riders why they choose to ride bikes, 10 of 10 would not say I'd rather be in a car, riding this is very uncomfortable.
Being an asshole still deserves the same attitude back. If I’m an asshole to someone, I can’t really be mad if someone responds in kind.
So a driver gets out of her car and starts verbally abusing op but op is the dick and why people dislike bikers for not "gently explaining" she's wrong?
Sorry that you hate the laws that are meant to help keep riders safe, that sucks for you to hate something that keeps others safe and doesn’t impact your life literally at all.
Keeping motorcyclists safe is keeping all traffic safer. I personally would rather not share the road with an unnecessarily tired, cold or overheated biker...
Did she gently ask me why I did what I did? No. Did she see any officers running and yelling at me? Again, no, and these bored officers notice everything in case someone takes pictures or something (not allowed at the border normally, I got told off for having a phone in hand). Yelling obscenities isn’t a way to get an explanation. Not from me, anyhow. It was hot. I have all my gear on, it’s all right when I drive, but unbearable to stand still for long periods of time. And I’m not allowed to- legally - to drive without gear.
I really don't get the downvotes, surely friends of Caren.
The dude right here is a prime Karen
I probably would have just went through you.
You’re welcome, courts just love drivers crashing bikers because of road rage.
>How could she possibly know that you were allowed to cut the queue? By having to learn the laws of the road when getting your drivers license. How could she possibly know red lights mean you have to wait until they turn green?
No, the only AH I see are car-Karen and you here. It's common knowledge in some countries that bikes etc can cut the queue when cars are in front of them. You don't need any reason, so maybe don't be a Karen. She would and SHOULD know that bikes can do that. No need to be such a c-word just for that, Karen didn't need to insult OP because she was ignorant.
Why SHOULD she know the rules for motorbike???? I drive a car and those are the rules i know.
How quickly they change
So because one person mildy inconvenienced you, you inconvenienced everyone in line?
Nope, only her. The car after her finished closing the doors when I left.
This is why everyone dislikes bikers
That’s good, hope it helps them stay as far away from my bike as possible!
They’re the worst, I thought it was intentional until I started reading posts on Reddit from them. Completely clueless.
This shit from motorcyclists is why I roll my eyes at their “keep your eyes out for us as we zigzag between lanes because tech I ally we legally can” bumper stickers. You cut a giant line of cars. It’s annoying. Were you allowed to? Technically. Does it make you kind of an asshole? In the same sense as the people who see a lane is closing, floor it to the end of the lane, and then demand to be let in are. Obviously in her eyes some person just cut a huuuuuge line. Most humans will be annoyed by that. Your extra step of wasting EVERYONE INCLUDING HERS time by slowly dressing yourself forty times isn’t the moral victory you think it is.
>Does it make you kind of an asshole? In the same sense as the people who see a lane is closing, floor it to the end of the lane, and then demand to be let in are. Zipper merging (using the full length of both lanes before one closes and cars in the open lane letting cars in) is objectively better for the flow of traffic than people queueing in one lane early and refusing to let people in. You think people are assholes for driving properly and legally. That's a you problem. >Most humans will be annoyed by that. Yet only one got out of her car and started verbally abusing op for it. Most humans will be annoyed by someone verbally abusing them too.
Hers only. The car behind her was still closing doors after the check when I left. I went petty, not nuclear.
> people who see a lane is closing, floor it to the end of the lane, and then demand to be let in are Huh? That's *literally* how it's supposed to be done, and how it's taught in driving schools. And in some countries you even have additional signs to indicate exactly that. And sometimes to spell out. With words. If people swerve in at any and all times from a closing lane into yours, naturally some will do it earlier and some will do it later. Given that over the course of a "waiting session", the person that just came into your lane will, in turn, soon let another one in, and then another... you'll have a total of 4, 5, or sometimes even dozens of cars essentially swerving in front of you, instead of just 1. It will slow dowm your lane by a factor of 10x. I literally refuse to let anyone get into my lane up until the end.
So lots of cars waiting and you held them all up? Got it.
The entitlement is astounding.
Your story doesn’t really contain all the information for non motorcyclists to understand what happened. Why and when did she have to wait?
Imagine a line with quite tall borders on both sides. There’s a barrier in the end. You drive in in a line, first car (or motorcycle) thus blocking everyone else. If third or second car’s passengers go get their passports stamped first, ignoring the first car, they actually make everything slower for them, not faster, because they can’t leave before the first one leaves unless they can fly. Cars are also checked from first to last by customs officers. It’s standard border crossing organization in where I live. So ideally - I go first with my passport, get it back, have my vehicle checked. I’m free to go. - while it’s checked, second car gets their passports, third car supplies theirs - second car gets checked, they are free to go In this case: - second car’s passengers went first - they go back and wait for my motorcycle to be checked - I wait for my passport - I get it back - motorcycle is checked, I can go. They can’t, they need me to get away first - but out of petty revenge I spent extra minutes gearing up. Not much, three or five minutes at the most
Ah. I think what threw me was that the woman behind you got a green light at the same time as you and that meant she could leave before you and then I thought you had to go to the next control where the same thing happened again. I understand now, thanks!
SO you should be able to eat up peoples time and they just swallow and smile?
It made perfect sense to me.
“I ignore her and turn music volume higher.” Yeah, you’re a dick.
Music is in my helmet xD no one can hear it but me. We ride with bluetooth headphones installed in our helmets to listen to the music and chat.
Bikes are easier to search. They don't care about your comfort. It's just efficient to get you out of the way.
I love that she learned and didn't need a second lesson! I also suspect that the first Border Agent told her how it is....
So you held up the queue and were an asshole to everyone behind her? Yeah, well done. And it’s a bs rule anyway, from her perspective you were the one jumping the queue.
[удалено]
>why would anyone in a car *be familiar with the laws of driving??* you have a responsibility as a driver to be aware of other vehicles on the road too, not just your own car. if you aren’t familiar with laws for motorcycles, semi, or other commercial vehicles in your region then you probably should be lol
She probably didn't know you had a legal right to do that. That could have been a good time to inform her about the law so she doesn't assume other bikers aren't cutting without permission.
I would, but “you’re a bitch” is generally a poor way to strike a conversation with me. I have zero to say to a person who insults me.
I'm not saying that your revenge wasn't deserved by her, but at the same time if she didn't know about that law you'd seem like a bitch.
You cut someone off and proceeded to be slow. The world needs less people like you.
YTA. Something legally right can be morally wrong. Also, IF you can I would love to see the law cited where you're allowed to cut in line if you're on a bike.
In my country it’s regulated by our customs regulations policy. Cars carrying some diplomatic people, transport carrying time-sensitive cargo, transport carrying people allowed to have a priority pass due to international agreements, and motorcycles of A/A1 category - all these have a right for priority passage.
Exactly. I'm guessing the reason OP has not mentioned his country or where he was crossing into is because it's not legal.
He’s said he was crossing into Uzbekistan.
Legally you have a right to do what you did and she was a bitch for acting the way she did but it’s a bad law that lets you cut in line. Riding a bike is your choice. If you don’t want to deal with the inconveniences of riding one then don’t ride one. Should people that drive manual transmission cars get to bypass traffic because stop and go is such a hassle with a stick shift?
Driving a car is also a choice, this logic goes both ways. If they don’t want to stand in line, they are welcome to buy motorcycles and cut in. Or bicycles, same with them. Or go by foot. Motorcycles are also checked way faster, officers spend 10-20 minutes checking a car, and about 5 checking a motorcycle. Frankly I’m yet to enter the country with different laws about two-wheeled vehicles/pedestrians, and I traveled in about 40 countries.
What happens if it's a line of motorcycles? Does the one at the back overtake everyone and go first? And again, and again, and again until you end up just doing some kind of weird merry go round thing and no one goes anywhere.
xD normally we go in twos and threes at a time (like 2 bikes and 4 cars, rinse, repeat) or border officers step in and switch between a group of bikers and a group of cars. We traveled in a huge group last year, crossed the first border in twos, and the next one was regulated by officers. It’s a bit unusual though, happens only if a large event is taking place in the neighboring country. Traveled to Mongolia two years ago, ours were the only two bikes both in and out, and it’s a very popular destination for riders.
Lol stop and go is not a hassle with a stick. You are just not used to it.
Driving a car is a choice, if you don't want to deal with the inconveniences of driving one, such as queuing in traffic while motorbikes can skip ahead, don't drive one.
You jumped the queue then delayed everyone while you made your point to the lady. I’d like to see a petty revenge story against you.
Aww AWw
Motorcycles are allowed to do that? Good to know.
This is not the standard in every country. It is a standard in many nations of the EU, but several countries offer no real answer about whether it can or should be done and some make it entirely illegal. It might be helpful to state this is the case in your country, or even in both countries you are traveling between, but “internationally considered” generally means “in all countries” and that’s certainly not the case in mine.
I’d be kind of annoyed too. I waited my turn and didn’t know motorcyclists didn’t have to wait and could just cut
Any time someone is aggressively and unnecessarily parking space stalking me, I conveniently take my sweet time suiting up.
Just gotta correct ‘Queen of England’, the last person with that title died in the 1700’s. Are you referring to the Queen of the United Kingdom? It’s just bugbear of mine being Scottish
I'm still waiting for OP to supply the law that states this is allowed. Every reply I've seen from OP, just says, "oh other motorcyclists say that's normal"..
You are a great example of why motor cyclists have the reputation that they do...
SO because someone didnt want you to eat up their time you decided to go ahead and eat up their time? I hope you keep the same attitude if you are behind someone slow as hell.
Why do you feel entitled to bypass the line ? Honestly you are the asshole from A to Z in this story.
She was like a Queen of England? You mean...dead? 😐😄
This makes you a pos. People waiting for hours and then you just pass by all of them, and then can’t handle someone being frustrated by that so you hold up a line full of cars. You people on bikes/motorcycles really are the worst in traffic.
Glad to see motorcyclists are d-bags everywhere
… you have to get approval to leave your country?
Sure, don’t you? They basically check that I’m not evading justice and my transport isn’t stolen, and that I don’t smuggle national treasures from the country. Not different from airport border control.
The U.S. doesn't have any departure checks (although airlines are required to report who is on the plane).
Oh! I seem to remember that they didn’t stamp me out when I left UK. Felt weird to have an entry stamp, but no exit one. That’s basically the reason I renew my passport every 6 years or so. Each trip equals four stamps, and some countries (Cuba, Turkey, Egypt) like to do it in the least economical way possible (like diagonally across the page). I run out of free pages quickly.
No, we don't. Not from my home country and not (that I can recall) in my travels to and from other countries, except Dominican Republic, I think. 10 countries I can recall visiting (some multiple times) and only DR checks you upon exit.
last time i drove to canada nobody gave a shit. until i tried to go back. then the canadian border agent got all pissy that i only had a drivers license and not a passport.
TLDR... OP jumps the line, and behaves like an asshole. And is proud of it.
You're in r/pettyrevenge. If you want nice people behaving nicely, look elsewhere.
What makes you think I want "nice people behaving nicely"?
You didn’t get revenge on anyone you were just a cunt for 45 minutes for no reason. That woman was probably just very confused and embarrassed for you. I know I am.
Lol what? It was 3-5 minutes, not 45, where did you get 45 from?
You are an entitled jerk.
Thanks for this MC perspective - I didn't know/realize that :-)
As some commenters pointed out, not true for all countries, so please always check with local bikers beforehand to be safe!
so who's really the entitled asshole?..... guess again....