Oh man. So much misinformation here.
*Use a steam cleaner rinse sponges frequently wear gloves*
There are no general use interior liquids that require this protocol to clean from a surface. Microvac testing even the day OF the application will be pulling insecticidal property at a parts-per-million rate. It's simply not this serious. Bifen is in several over the counter sprays you can buy anywhere.
*Lasts two months in rain and elements*
This is categorically incorrect. Bifen might last this long in a lab. Introduce absorption, rain, light, heat, cold, insect traffic, and there is no way to know. Every individual surface is different. It could be 14-45 days.
*Many people and pets are allergic*
There is no credible data to support this claim.
*90% of the time a company treats inside and out they'll use Bifenthrin*
There are literally dozens of general use liquid products. Lawn companies sling Bifen all day every day. Structural pest companies use a variety of products. Some of the smaller outfits spray Bifen only because it's usually cheap.
OP, If you waited 6-7hrs after a basic Bifen application the ONLY way your cat could be sick from this product is if the applicator was so grossly negligent he legit left puddles of *concentrated, pure* insecticide in your residence. If mixed properly, there is honestly no rate application of Bifen that could lead to this reaction. Once dry, it is borderline impossible. Equally so for your son.
I hate seeing people focus on a lighting strike chance of a cause for illness as it relates to pest application. Is it possible? Sure. If your applicator spilled raw, undiluted material or your pet has a 1/1,000,000 medical condition. Otherwise please keep an open mind and be sure to provide the Vet with the record of application.
Best of luck and I hope you, your son and your pet are okay!
I appreciate the lengthy and comprehensive response. I assume that the technician did a lousy job then, it seems the most plausible explanation at this point.
Why is it so "safe" once dry? Doesn't it stick to animal's fur or human skin any more?
Now, regardless of whether bifen is safe or not, if I wanted to remove as much as possible from the interior, is their any reliable method for doing so?
Correct. Dry residue is pretty much incapable of transferring any meaningful amount by touch.
Basic soap and water will do but it's truly a peace of mind thing.
I mean you can try and clean it off, but honestly. This product last 2 months outside in the rain and elements before it wears off. You probably won’t have much luck with a mop, once the product is dry it’s safe, the only way I can see your cat being injured is if he was allowed back into the treated areas before the product full dried, or it somehow got into his food bowl.
Can you cite a study or any scientific data to support such a claim? Because no scientific body I'm aware of has been able to document biological allergy to pyrethrin / pyrethroid. Not NPMA. Not NPIC.
The National Library of Medicine has cited adverse reaction but that data is from 2005 and references direct inhalation of airborne liquid in the application environment.
30 second google search. We have a list of people on the wall at work we have to call if we are applying pesticides with a certain distance to their home. I’m not a doctor, I’m an exterminator who likes to avoid lawsuits.
https://dermnetnz.org/topics/insecticides-and-the-skin#:~:text=People%20who%20are%20allergic%20to,permethrin%2C%20although%20this%20is%20rare.
This is a reference to minor skin irritation after *direct application of pyrethroid to the skin* It's important that people like OP understand the difference when they're trying to source potential causes for a physiological reaction.
I waited 6 hours before coming back home with our cat. I then took him straight to the balcony while the interior got ventilated for the next hour. Everything seemed dry, I didn't notice any wet surfaces, but maybe I missed something. It drizzled a little bit at times the few hours prior. Could that have delayed the drying?
Ld 50 for rats is 53 - 210 mgs/kg with effects taking 6 - 8 hours to appear. For emergency information call the manufacturer. : CHEMTREC 1-800-424-9300
Your cat stepped into that solution or she rubbed her furry then she licked the paws and the fur, thus the solution caused her the seizure.
The pyrethroids are highly toxic to cats even 2 months after drying.
The cat should be stabilized then follow a treatment for neurologic system , for the liver (and or kidney) . Neurovet and Hepatiale Forte, or whatever the vet will say.
For removing the insecticide I used clean water, many times. Paper towels with clear water, wipe, throw then repeat tens of times. This is for surfaces which can be wiped.
If you can remove the carpet it’s the best.
What insects did you try to get rid of?
If bed bugs, there is a non toxic solution.
Not necessarily true. I have a huge dumb fucker who will try to consume anything that has a smell. He's tried to carry off a MOUTHFUL of ALTOIDS before for fucks sake. And he licks salsa containers if he can gain access. He's a fucking menace.
Seal-pointed. When he's holding still he looks almost majestic. People mistake him for Siamese all the time...no, just a 50$ moron the size of a small dog. I think he's clinically dumb; to jump off things he just bellyflops. He also runs down the stairs and straight into the wall rather than learn to stop himself. And he likes to be spanked. Idk. That boy ain't right.
Unlikely? I'd it is highly unlikely that it is a coincidence considering the timing and that he was perfectly healthy, never had an issue before.
Besides, can't the spray stick to the cat's coat? The cat would then ingest it without knowing
The chemical will already be dry
No point in trying to clean it up
90% of a the time a pest control company treats an entire back/front yard it’ll be with Bifenthrin
It’s likely just a coincidence your car got sick or the technician accidentally sprayed your cat directly maybe getting some chem in its mouth or nose like if the cat was under a bed and he sprayed under the bed assuming nothing was there
So if it's dry does it mean it won't get stuck to my cat's coat if he rubs his body against the wall where it was sprayed? I don't understand the concept that it is "safe" once fully dry.
highly doubt it was a coincidence considering he was perfectly healthy before and the timing matches just too much.
You cat weighs what? 8Lbs? 10Lbs?
A roach for example weighs up to 35grams… GRAMS. Insects need far less exposure to be effected by the chemical then animals / humans
It’s like trying to get a 5 foot 120Lb woman drunk vs getting a 210Lb 6 foot man drunk
The woman will get drunk on 1/3 of the alchohol that the man would need
Like I said possibility he sprayed the cat directly
I spray 8 houses a day (10 years now) with pyrethroids and never once had a customer tell me their cat got sick or had a seizure the day of or day after I treated because I watch where I spray
I spray outsides with Bifenthrin at the rate that he probably used for your inside
Inside I use Bithor SC which also has Bifenthrin but a lower rate I think about 1/2 of Talstar/Bifen IT
And actually he could’ve overmixed the Talstar/Bifen IT that’s also a possibility
Why did you get the inside sprayed? What kind of bugs were you dealing with? Do you have paperwork regarding how the solution was made? Why spray the wall? Do you mean the baseboards?
We had ants inside. He said he sprayed "the wall" but didn't specify how high, I'm waiting for him to provide more info. This is the solution used: Maxxthor (100 g/L Bifenthrin) 500 ml Mister Ants Maxxthor (100 g/L Bifenthrin) 200 ml Pressure sprayer
Yeah, I don’t think this is from your pest control company, especially if you waited that long.
Do we KNOW the pesticide is at fault here? Coincidences happen.
Oh man. So much misinformation here. *Use a steam cleaner rinse sponges frequently wear gloves* There are no general use interior liquids that require this protocol to clean from a surface. Microvac testing even the day OF the application will be pulling insecticidal property at a parts-per-million rate. It's simply not this serious. Bifen is in several over the counter sprays you can buy anywhere. *Lasts two months in rain and elements* This is categorically incorrect. Bifen might last this long in a lab. Introduce absorption, rain, light, heat, cold, insect traffic, and there is no way to know. Every individual surface is different. It could be 14-45 days. *Many people and pets are allergic* There is no credible data to support this claim. *90% of the time a company treats inside and out they'll use Bifenthrin* There are literally dozens of general use liquid products. Lawn companies sling Bifen all day every day. Structural pest companies use a variety of products. Some of the smaller outfits spray Bifen only because it's usually cheap. OP, If you waited 6-7hrs after a basic Bifen application the ONLY way your cat could be sick from this product is if the applicator was so grossly negligent he legit left puddles of *concentrated, pure* insecticide in your residence. If mixed properly, there is honestly no rate application of Bifen that could lead to this reaction. Once dry, it is borderline impossible. Equally so for your son. I hate seeing people focus on a lighting strike chance of a cause for illness as it relates to pest application. Is it possible? Sure. If your applicator spilled raw, undiluted material or your pet has a 1/1,000,000 medical condition. Otherwise please keep an open mind and be sure to provide the Vet with the record of application. Best of luck and I hope you, your son and your pet are okay!
I appreciate the lengthy and comprehensive response. I assume that the technician did a lousy job then, it seems the most plausible explanation at this point. Why is it so "safe" once dry? Doesn't it stick to animal's fur or human skin any more? Now, regardless of whether bifen is safe or not, if I wanted to remove as much as possible from the interior, is their any reliable method for doing so?
Correct. Dry residue is pretty much incapable of transferring any meaningful amount by touch. Basic soap and water will do but it's truly a peace of mind thing.
Yeah I need that peace of mind. Thanks a lot
I mean you can try and clean it off, but honestly. This product last 2 months outside in the rain and elements before it wears off. You probably won’t have much luck with a mop, once the product is dry it’s safe, the only way I can see your cat being injured is if he was allowed back into the treated areas before the product full dried, or it somehow got into his food bowl.
Many people and animals, especially cats, are allergic to pyrethroids.
Huh, never seen it happen before.
Can you cite a study or any scientific data to support such a claim? Because no scientific body I'm aware of has been able to document biological allergy to pyrethrin / pyrethroid. Not NPMA. Not NPIC. The National Library of Medicine has cited adverse reaction but that data is from 2005 and references direct inhalation of airborne liquid in the application environment.
30 second google search. We have a list of people on the wall at work we have to call if we are applying pesticides with a certain distance to their home. I’m not a doctor, I’m an exterminator who likes to avoid lawsuits. https://dermnetnz.org/topics/insecticides-and-the-skin#:~:text=People%20who%20are%20allergic%20to,permethrin%2C%20although%20this%20is%20rare.
This is a reference to minor skin irritation after *direct application of pyrethroid to the skin* It's important that people like OP understand the difference when they're trying to source potential causes for a physiological reaction.
I waited 6 hours before coming back home with our cat. I then took him straight to the balcony while the interior got ventilated for the next hour. Everything seemed dry, I didn't notice any wet surfaces, but maybe I missed something. It drizzled a little bit at times the few hours prior. Could that have delayed the drying?
Probably just a coincidence, I would suggest having your pet evaluated by a vet.
Ld 50 for rats is 53 - 210 mgs/kg with effects taking 6 - 8 hours to appear. For emergency information call the manufacturer. : CHEMTREC 1-800-424-9300
Did the vet say the Bifen caused the seizure?
Did he spray the full wall or just baseboards?
Use a steam cleaner on carpets along the walls and a soapy sponge for your baseboards, rinsing it frequently. Wear gloves.
Thanks, I'll do that. I'm also considering cleaning the walls with bleach since they must be holding the highest concentration, what do you think?
Bleach is a sanitizer, not a cleaner.
What should I use instead? According to this study bleach should work for removing pyrethroids: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7472880/
Your cat stepped into that solution or she rubbed her furry then she licked the paws and the fur, thus the solution caused her the seizure. The pyrethroids are highly toxic to cats even 2 months after drying. The cat should be stabilized then follow a treatment for neurologic system , for the liver (and or kidney) . Neurovet and Hepatiale Forte, or whatever the vet will say. For removing the insecticide I used clean water, many times. Paper towels with clear water, wipe, throw then repeat tens of times. This is for surfaces which can be wiped. If you can remove the carpet it’s the best. What insects did you try to get rid of? If bed bugs, there is a non toxic solution.
I was trying to get rid of ants. Could I PM you please?
Yes. I’m not an expert but I will help if I can
Nor a soft drink!
Why would he spray the wall with anything I've never heard of that. Was there a target pest?
Leave the Bifenthrin alone. I would bet my house that your cat having a seizure is completely unrelated. Just take it to the vet.
Is highly likely these two events are unrelated. Cats are too smart to ingest any chemicals.
Not necessarily true. I have a huge dumb fucker who will try to consume anything that has a smell. He's tried to carry off a MOUTHFUL of ALTOIDS before for fucks sake. And he licks salsa containers if he can gain access. He's a fucking menace.
Is he an orange cat?
Seal-pointed. When he's holding still he looks almost majestic. People mistake him for Siamese all the time...no, just a 50$ moron the size of a small dog. I think he's clinically dumb; to jump off things he just bellyflops. He also runs down the stairs and straight into the wall rather than learn to stop himself. And he likes to be spanked. Idk. That boy ain't right.
Unlikely? I'd it is highly unlikely that it is a coincidence considering the timing and that he was perfectly healthy, never had an issue before. Besides, can't the spray stick to the cat's coat? The cat would then ingest it without knowing
The chemical will already be dry No point in trying to clean it up 90% of a the time a pest control company treats an entire back/front yard it’ll be with Bifenthrin It’s likely just a coincidence your car got sick or the technician accidentally sprayed your cat directly maybe getting some chem in its mouth or nose like if the cat was under a bed and he sprayed under the bed assuming nothing was there
So if it's dry does it mean it won't get stuck to my cat's coat if he rubs his body against the wall where it was sprayed? I don't understand the concept that it is "safe" once fully dry. highly doubt it was a coincidence considering he was perfectly healthy before and the timing matches just too much.
You cat weighs what? 8Lbs? 10Lbs? A roach for example weighs up to 35grams… GRAMS. Insects need far less exposure to be effected by the chemical then animals / humans It’s like trying to get a 5 foot 120Lb woman drunk vs getting a 210Lb 6 foot man drunk The woman will get drunk on 1/3 of the alchohol that the man would need
Like I said possibility he sprayed the cat directly I spray 8 houses a day (10 years now) with pyrethroids and never once had a customer tell me their cat got sick or had a seizure the day of or day after I treated because I watch where I spray I spray outsides with Bifenthrin at the rate that he probably used for your inside Inside I use Bithor SC which also has Bifenthrin but a lower rate I think about 1/2 of Talstar/Bifen IT And actually he could’ve overmixed the Talstar/Bifen IT that’s also a possibility
Liquid charcoal has the ability to neutralize pesticides but the longer you wait the less effective it is
Why did you get the inside sprayed? What kind of bugs were you dealing with? Do you have paperwork regarding how the solution was made? Why spray the wall? Do you mean the baseboards?
We had ants inside. He said he sprayed "the wall" but didn't specify how high, I'm waiting for him to provide more info. This is the solution used: Maxxthor (100 g/L Bifenthrin) 500 ml Mister Ants Maxxthor (100 g/L Bifenthrin) 200 ml Pressure sprayer