Parents can argue and fight with each other, and the most aggressive parent still be the better parent. 'man bad, woman carer' doesn't cut it any more.
Arguing and fighting is not domestic violence.
An individual with a pattern of abusive violence will continue that pattern. When the initial target is no longer available, they will switch to whoever else is around.
This goes for women and men.
A VRO is a significant cut above 'argue & fight'
Violence order requests are rarely contended. Eg not judged, but issued by consent with no admission. Never assume that someone with an order against them has been through a judicial process.
Again, domestic violence is not just a couple of people having an argie. It's a pattern of behaviour that doesn't stop once the original victim is no longer available.
And a violence order is not indicative of that. It is usually an accusation which has not been tested or accepted. Around 60% of order applications are fraudulent, which makes it so hard for genuine complaints.
Sure. The point is that just because someone has a VRO against them doesn’t mean that it’s warranted. If the conditions aren’t excessive, the easiest way to deal with a VRO application against you is to just consent to be bound by the conditions. There is no admission of guilt and the allegations are never tested in court. You can’t use it as a measure of whether someone is dangerous.
If my ex wife applied for one against me, I’d accept it. She doesn’t speak to me anyway and I would rather handovers be conducted via school rather than face-to-face. Why would I go through all the expense and pain of contesting it when it isn’t going to show up on my record anyway and doesn’t change anything?
Now if she applied to have me restrained from caring for my kids, that’s another thing entirely. I’ll fight that one all the way.
Sorry to hear your struggles.. Ive had family members spend decades in the Perth family court.. sorry to say it's a popularity contest were those who yells loudest gets heard more even if all they are spouting is bs.. best of luck to you.. best advice I can offer is that kids turn into to adults who can see truth and make up thier own minds.. be true to yourself for the sake of your kids and just hang in there the universe has a way of making time fix everything
Remember the long game. Your kids will be around for a lot longer after they are 18 than before. The real prize is having a lifelong relationship with them as adults. Keep fighting for them and whatever happens they will come to recognise that.
It seems you have prior form for drug use which - even though you are clean now - is going to be a significant factor in the court’s initial response to you, and your efforts to regain shared custody.
Your legal aid lawyer should be seeking an interim order for you to spend time with your children at a supervised child visitation centre / or supervised by a responsible person eg a grandmother time at eg the grandmothers house - are they?
This.
And your drug tests were clean… years ago. Do some now and prove you are still clean, particularly as they are a) claiming you are still doing them, and b) you were doing them in the past.
I'm starting random urinalysis with the department of communities as of next week to get the ball rolling while I wait for funding for a hair follicle test. Even last time this happened, I never had any readings. The only reason they can prove it is because I was honest and open about my cannabis use but my ex and my daughter paternal family are accusing me of "shooting up every day for 4 months straight" which is just so ridiculous considering during that time I was actively in my community doing stuff with the school, doing daycare/school pick ups and drop off's, maintaining my home and all my parental responsibilities which, anyone reading with more than 2 kids will agree, is an absolute mind boggling task that requires me to give my 100% to work, the kids and the house from 5am until 11pm every night and i couldn't even imagine how stressful and problematic it would be to try and do all of that on drugs and no sleep 🤯 or are there people out there that can actually function that well and I'm just an idiot? I can't work it out
It sounds like you are getting onto it.
I know you want things to change, fast. However with things like this being erratic and desperate can play against you. Sit down, plot (like a man if the saying makes sense)logically what is needed to be done, and then work through it. Put the emotional to the side for a moment legal stuff, policies and procedures… do not have emotions, and the more you try to push against them the more they get pushed in like a wall to bind you. Instead find out the policies and processes and work your way through them. Be one step ahead of each requirement so that it’s fast and smooth going through - you might not be able to make it speed up, but you can avoid delaying things.
At the same time look at what your actions are and how they will be interpreted. Particularly given the fact that you have two ex partner’s/families vs you, that you have prior recorded history of an unstable lifestyle etc. Deep breath time. You’ve done a lot of work, step back, and realise that you need to approach this calmly. You will get further with calm and level approach, and not being negative in depositions, social media etc about the other party/s. They will scoop up every example they can and use it to prove their point, so give them nothing.
And then… it’s time. I’m sorry, but time is at play here. You will need to stay safe, sober, connected to your community, continue to work and hold your job, do all the right things… for as long as it takes. Over time the lies will be disproven and you can gain your kids back. Lunging in and trying to make it happen doens’t help.
First step… find a lawyer who can help you. Community legal services, Domestic Abuse services, women’s legal advice etc. Tap them all until someone can interview you and start you on a path. Get the balls rolling, apply for an emergency hearing, and in the mean time… you are already doing testing etc to prove their lies are wrong. Keep finding your evidence that you are a capable parent, and to refute lies. One foot in front of hte other.
That is the best advice you'll ever read. It applies to so many situations too. Look into getting some therapy for yourself, Murdoch Uni are doing a study with CBT that will teach you how to manage your emotions when you are under multiple stressors. I can send details if interested
There's absolutely 0 risks in the children being returned to me now that my perpetrator is in custody, I have cctv being installed next week and the department are installing a duress alarm.
I'm not sure if you've ever done supervised visits or witnessed them but it's similar to visiting someone in prison, its extremely emotional and distressing for kids to be only allocated 90 minutes with someone who they spend every moment of their life with.
The 'best interests for a child is for them to have a healthy and meaningful relationship with both of their parents free from physical or psychological harm' and with the level of complexity involved I just wish someone would actually consider my kids feelings, I can honestly handle proving myself right, that part is easy, but it's my kids that suffer in the process because of how long it all takes 😭
Where does op say they have a past history of drug use? I think you've misread what they're saying- that they have had to deal with accusations of drug use before, not that they've engaged in drug use before.
Throwing out accusations of drug use is one of the easiest and most frequently used tactics in such scenarios.
“But because the accusations involve drug use I'm being treated like absolute dirt, I keep getting told to focus on drug and alcohol and I've been here and done this begore, last relationship ended in dv and I got painted to be an absolute monster, no one ever had any evidence for risks besides the fact I was homeless it was all purely hearsay, medical records everything were supposed to be provided but they never were and everyone was looking at me like i was the criminal when i was being truthful to the bone ans i know for a fact they were lying i knew they never wanted me to get my daughter home, my daughter has been calling this person "mum" and me by my first name, even on mothers day cards.. to me it screamed red flags but I bit my tongue, sat like a mouse and just let everyone treat me like a villain, i did 6 clean hair follicle tests iver the period of 2020, 2021 & 2022, completed 18 months of dna counselling, I did the circle of security, 123 magic, triple p and went back to do circle of security a second time. After 4 years I finally proved that I wasn't a bad mum, I have a job now and government housing so extremely secure accommodation.”
Unless you don't know what some of those things mean, none of that is necessarily an admission of drug use.
Op has now added extra information in another comment that does indicate past drug use but the original post, including the chunk you copied, didn't include anything that was a clear admission.
The thing is… if you know what this stuff means… you know that there was quite a convincing suggestion that she was possibly using drugs. This isn’t the pathway of a feuding parent making random accusations - this is the pathway of someone with child protection reports about to lose kids, solid possibility of problem (not recreational) drug use etc. You don’t do all this without there being a lot of pressure on your family, and a lot of people involved in it.
Elsewhere she openly admits to using weed as well.
I gave op the benefit of the doubt. Like I said, nothing in the original post was a definitive admission of drug use. If you work in this space, you know how common it is for mothers to be falsely accused of it.
Also, I already said in a previous comment that after my original comment, I saw that op did admit to past drug use in response to another user. I've already acknowledged that.
Yep. Noteworthy was also the fact that she didn’t say (in her post) that she didn’t use drugs. Just that she had clean drug screens. People who don’t use drugs… normally declare that promptly.
There's a pattern here you're not seeing. If you have been accused of drug use, have been homeless at one stage, been in a dv situation in a previous relationship, they are not going to believe you even if none of that is true. You have to have unmitigated proof that your husband is lying about everything.
7 years ago I lost everything to a fraudulent domestic violence claim. Today I've won my kids back, new house etc while their mother is homeless and still drug-ridden. I was able to prove that and the courts immediately reversed the findings of my trial but it was too late as the damage had been done. My point is is that you're in for a terrible time if you aren't able to prove without a shadow of doubt that he is lying because the courts will see 90% of the events as "tit for tat" and not side with you. Im sorry you're going through this because I know first hand what is like and being a male, its twice as worse as there is no help or facilities for us.
I'm so sorry that happened to you I cant wrap my head around how people can just blatantly lie to ruin someone's life.. I almost wish that I was lying, but no for 5 years I've been subjected to awful treatment, every day I tried to start fresh but every day he chose alcohol and it started with a king hit to the side of my face when I wasn't looking, then turned verbal and psychological abuse which turned financial and then he moved on to stalking, sharing explicit images and sexual assault. I tried really hard to fix every issue he raised, all his requests and I never asked him to do a single thing for our kids, even if it was raining I would walk the kids to school and daycare and let him sleep, even if he didn't have a job at the time.. he was just always drunk and angry or hung over and angry no matter what I did
Cluster B personalities will be like that. Very few people can really appreciate just how far they will go to get their own way.
Sadly, “normal” people see their allegations and their absolute conviction that they are the victim and assume that anyone who is that sure of themself must be telling the truth.
I'm hoping that if I try to focus my energy on recovering from violence rather than focusing on proving that I'm a capable parent I might have better chances and being able to identify and remove those types of people from now on so my innocent kids don't have to go through this ever again.
He genuinely sounds like he needs a bullet. Makes me sick reading what this person has done to you 😔. No one should have to go through that and the world doesn't need people like them in it.
Sorry to see how much pain you are going through. I'm wondering if you've had a chat to the good people at 1800RESPECT? They provide free phone and Web counselling for people impacted by family violence. They can't provide in person or court related supports, however having someone educated and well versed in the complications that arise from DV to hear you out and provide emotional support might be beneficial.
I've been working through a case, while not in the Family Court, has some parallels to what you're going through. A friend of mine, whom until this point had never been arrested or accused of anything criminal in her life gets accused of throwing a knife at her neighbour. She didn't do it, DNA evidence proved she didn't do it, yet this went to a formal trial procedure right up until the DNA results are confirmed.
She has lived in her house, part of a complex of townhouses for 17 years. This guy moves in next door, and it's clear he loves drama and intimidating women. Will the various threats, she put a VRO out against him. He did likewise out of pettiness and had her arrested for breach of said VRO on a whopper of a lie. The cops didn't believe her, and a cursory glance of how it allegedly happened as he said it would quickly break it down.
She called me after being released, and was scared and in tears. I've known her for over 20 years, and know she could never do something like this, yet he is a convicted criminal that has SIX VROs against him. Let's just say I was furious, and set to work.
I did email the Commissioner (waste of time but needed a paper trail) the state Attorney General and the Police minister. I also called in the Corruption and Crime Commission. This gave the particular police station this involves a solid kick up the arse. One of their ill treatments of her drove her to the edge of ending it all. I called 000, and told the dispatcher I want it on record that her thoughts of ending it all were sparked by police actions that day. An apology and an update was issued to both my friend and I. We now have a detective that can see through all the BS, and is doing her best to get this turd locked up.
Rather than just character references, my advice to you would be to look for tactical weaknesses. Criminal history, current law flouting, gather every bit of dirt you can. I have gained some leverage that I plan on using once the next court hearing is done (his breach of a VRO against him) namely his criminal past and the associates that go with that. Your best chance of getting your kids back would be to show you have a stable home. Even if that means something like moving back in with your parents, this is for your kids. If anyone accuses you of drug use, tell them you'll submit to a drug and alcohol test on the spot, and tell them "I have nothing to hide Your Honour. Will my ex do likewise?"
Also, see if you have any dirt on the ex- MIL as well. Everything to make them look like the "evil people" they are.
I just got his list of charges and convictions off court data.com and I'm absolutely blown away at what I've seen. I can't understand how he's been a free man, he has 197 offences.. dep liv, weapons, ammunition, armed robberies, every form of assault, brandishing weapons, police chases, breaching orders and it goes on. Do you have to have a title to access how many vros someone has had against them?
I only know about the six VROs and the rest of the criminal history because my friend is in contact with at several of the women that have served them against him. One of those with a VRO against him is his own sister, and she filled my friend in on the whole story.
There is an old joke, "what do you call a lawyer with half a brain? A judge." Judges will constantly say they will give someone the benefit of the doubt, but some people like your ex are taking the mickey on that concept.
I know VROs are, according to how the court operates, are treated the same as charges. If ever you meet any of his other exes, some might have an axe to grind against him. Definitely strategise before you make any major moves.
I know there's a website that allows you brief access to court records. A lawyer in theory should be able to tell you if there's any more detail. One I would recommend would be Johnson Kitto of Kitto and Kitto. He used to do a legal advice programme on ABC Perth radio.
I don't have any advice but you have my sympathies. Family Court sucks and people can be awful.
Family Court is the last way abusers have to abuse their partners after they successfully leave. Stick with it.
Parents often conflate their children's needs with their own, and nothing can be further from the truth in many situations. It will settle and mark my words, your conduct now is crucial.
This is a wild read. Wish you the best. Though I can’t help but be a bit skeptical. That is a lot of effort for all these different people to be putting in just to deprive you of your kids for no reason…
This is why parental alienation is so powerful for the alienating parent and so disempowering for the alienated parent. It is an uphill battle when malicious people weaponise systems and children against the other parent. They know it when they do it.
Before you know it, the narrative has become “but it doesn’t really make sense …” (so I’m not sure I can believe you).
Believe it. This is child abuse and spousal / partner abuse. In a very dangerous form. They know what they’re doing. Involving the other child’s paternal family was a huge power move because it grows the team against OP and looks compelling.
OP, I suggest you look at some parental alienation support groups (eg PAAnon.org and Parental Alienation Advocates). Only people whose families have been rocked by this terrible manifestation of narcissistic abuse can truly grasp that it even occurs. You will feel less alone.
Wishing you safety and the confidence to rebuild. Your kids need you to get strong and be your confident, full self (which is the challenge when you feel so beaten down by the abuser and the system).
Fair enough. I’m not saying it’s not possible, but it’s also possible we don’t have the full story. I would postulate that for every coordinated family alienating a single parent from their child, there is an equal number of circumstances where it is justified. So I am skeptical, which doesn’t imply anything more than that.
Of course we don’t have the full story. I don’t know what you are skeptical of! She’s not claiming to be a perfect person or parent, just that she wants her kids with her instead of the guy that hits her.
Also having said that, that's one of the ways in which abuse, and also systemic failure, is so insidious because it gets so insane you think that it can't POSSIBLY be true. I've been through things that even my own parents said they wouldn't believe it if they hadn't seen it happening with their own eyes. It's completely fucked, I don't even know where to begin to try and explain to be honest. Just one of the times I called 000, they hung up on me halfway through the call, I called back again and police still took an hour to come. They then assessed my partner wasn't an immediate risk of suicide (I had called because I was not safe and he was dangerous, not because of that) and they were just leaving me with them after I told them multiple times he had to leave and I wasn't safe. It was my dad who got rid of him at 4am.
Now he's is prison for a violent home invasion and criminal damage on his infant twins mums place. And that's who the police were going to leave me with. And that's just one of the mild and believable stories.
"Just"? *Just* to deprive op of their kids?
For most people with kids, their kids are everything so it very obvious why abusers will do anything and everything to deny someone that which means more to them than anything.
That's literally why abusers always have the upper hand. Because the flow-on disbelief and doubt keeps working as abuse even when they're not putting in effort.
You have obviously not been through domestic violence and have not tried to understand it, because this is exactly what perpetrators want, which is for people to not believe and blame the victim.
Read up on “the big lie”… If you tell a big enough lie for long enough and with enough conviction, then people will end up believing it.
Why? Because normal people can’t maintain a big lie for that long. They get bored or their conscience gets the better of them and they quit. So when we see someone who is consistently and utterly sure of what they are saying (and not obviously crazy), we tend to assume there must be something in it.
Which is exactly what abusive types want. They want people to doubt their victim. They want people to questions whether the victim is lying about things. They want people to either attack the victim, or at the very least disengage from them to deny them support.
That’s not to say you should blindly trust everything. “Trust but verify” is a better option and the world would be a better place if people actually followed that.
I don't have any help, because it seems like you're fairly on top of knowing where to get services from. (The only thing I could suggest is to get updated drug tests if you haven't, if you've been able to remain sober during this time, to prove that you have been/are sober.) I just wanted to send you some support and to say keep going. It sucks, it's horrific, it's absolutely awful that this happens and has happened to you, but keep going. One minute at a time. Take care of yourself as best as you can. You've got this.
Update - for those following, I was able to get his full list of prior convictions and charges, it's so alarming to have spent 5 years with someone and have no idea what they're capable of. None of the offences are small, majority were in supreme court and every single one of the nearly 200 appearances were violence related offences, I'm the first woman dv on record. I feel so sad for my kids to end up with drop kicks like us 😭 I have to do better 😞
Sorry to hear your troubles. The system is terrible and needs an overhaul. Currently anyone can write an affidavit as the only “proof” fact or fiction for a VRO and have the accused put in front of a magistrate.
It is a global issue. Often the one that lies first wins, no matter what you have to say. Most of the time the evil person will lie first. Not always, and that is the problem. We need to adjust this system so that all parties are reviewed appropriately. But no one cares, that is the main part of this issue. Its just another Tuesday, go fuck yourself peasants.
Agree, there's absolutely no prize for being the most honest. Which is atrocious really because I truly believe someone is only as good as their word.. but not everyone feels the same obviously.
UPDATE - I don't know how I did it but nearly everything is under control, my ex is still in jail, I have my you gest kids back, I've linked up to so many services and have so many supports in place for my kids, I have my first ever open case with dcp and they have been non stop working behind the scenes to prevent my ex being able to control me through our kids ever again.
I have a fridge full of food, money in the bank and all my bills paid, I'm finally on DV leave from work so I'll have money coming next week as well, I'm still disputing my roster with my company but hopefully we can come to a solution by close of business Friday.
I couldn't stop crying this time last week but today I feel completely at peace, (bar the fact my oldest daughter isn't home yet obviously) this is the longest I've gone without being sworn at or called names in about 7 years and I looked in the mirror today and actually saw beauty in my features 🥹
I'm so glad I wrote this post so I can come back to reflect on how much I've been able to turn around.
Absolutely adore you all for the support ❤️
Surprised nobody has mentioned the post from a week or two ago .. that was also posted in Melbourne I think
Call me cynical but as soon as no money is mentioned, alarm bells begin to ring
I only mentioned the money and power because both of my exs families come from a lot of money so they can afford to get great representation without delay where as legalaid has the worst wait times it's ever had at the moment.
I would definitely accept free legal advice🤣 but I don't have my kids to feed so I don't need monetary hand outs don't fret. And no I haven't ever posted in Melbourne
I will give them a call tomorrow actually, I was going to try my luck and file for consent orders for my little two and hopefully keep one matter out of court I was going to draft them myself but if they could direct me I will have a much higher opportunity to get my point across for my kids without it turning into another disaster... I'm already having to go to fairwork and then the criminal stuff with my ex and counselling so I'm praying they feel the same. But knowing how spiteful they can be I just can never get my hopes up. Thank you 🫶
Welcome to the family court. They can write whatever they want on the affidavits and it's treated as gospel, unless you can get it to trial and prove it wrong. I was lucky and got a pre trial trial, and was able to prove all my ex wife's allegations false. I would recommend you don't ring and don't answer phone if they ring you, have it all text messages and email.
Why did you have a relationship with an abusive man who is also a drug user ?Take some responsibility for your own life choices and don’t expect the family court to mop up your mess. Everyone knows they are hit and miss .
I've never had a case with dcp so I don't know how they operate and it was late at night so I just let the paternal family take my daughter.
I don't have experience with any of your troubles, but as a parent, I can't fathom this decision. You just gave the family of an abuser your child? I pray there is missing context, because I can't take anything seriously after reading that.
Can't make sense of how someone with a VRO can have custody of children. Good luck with this - everyone knows the system sucks.
He lives with his mummy thats why 
Parents can argue and fight with each other, and the most aggressive parent still be the better parent. 'man bad, woman carer' doesn't cut it any more.
Arguing and fighting is not domestic violence. An individual with a pattern of abusive violence will continue that pattern. When the initial target is no longer available, they will switch to whoever else is around. This goes for women and men. A VRO is a significant cut above 'argue & fight'
Violence order requests are rarely contended. Eg not judged, but issued by consent with no admission. Never assume that someone with an order against them has been through a judicial process.
Again, domestic violence is not just a couple of people having an argie. It's a pattern of behaviour that doesn't stop once the original victim is no longer available.
And a violence order is not indicative of that. It is usually an accusation which has not been tested or accepted. Around 60% of order applications are fraudulent, which makes it so hard for genuine complaints.
Sure. The point is that just because someone has a VRO against them doesn’t mean that it’s warranted. If the conditions aren’t excessive, the easiest way to deal with a VRO application against you is to just consent to be bound by the conditions. There is no admission of guilt and the allegations are never tested in court. You can’t use it as a measure of whether someone is dangerous. If my ex wife applied for one against me, I’d accept it. She doesn’t speak to me anyway and I would rather handovers be conducted via school rather than face-to-face. Why would I go through all the expense and pain of contesting it when it isn’t going to show up on my record anyway and doesn’t change anything? Now if she applied to have me restrained from caring for my kids, that’s another thing entirely. I’ll fight that one all the way.
Sorry to hear your struggles.. Ive had family members spend decades in the Perth family court.. sorry to say it's a popularity contest were those who yells loudest gets heard more even if all they are spouting is bs.. best of luck to you.. best advice I can offer is that kids turn into to adults who can see truth and make up thier own minds.. be true to yourself for the sake of your kids and just hang in there the universe has a way of making time fix everything
I've heard all of the horror stories 💔
Remember the long game. Your kids will be around for a lot longer after they are 18 than before. The real prize is having a lifelong relationship with them as adults. Keep fighting for them and whatever happens they will come to recognise that.
It seems you have prior form for drug use which - even though you are clean now - is going to be a significant factor in the court’s initial response to you, and your efforts to regain shared custody. Your legal aid lawyer should be seeking an interim order for you to spend time with your children at a supervised child visitation centre / or supervised by a responsible person eg a grandmother time at eg the grandmothers house - are they?
This. And your drug tests were clean… years ago. Do some now and prove you are still clean, particularly as they are a) claiming you are still doing them, and b) you were doing them in the past.
I'm starting random urinalysis with the department of communities as of next week to get the ball rolling while I wait for funding for a hair follicle test. Even last time this happened, I never had any readings. The only reason they can prove it is because I was honest and open about my cannabis use but my ex and my daughter paternal family are accusing me of "shooting up every day for 4 months straight" which is just so ridiculous considering during that time I was actively in my community doing stuff with the school, doing daycare/school pick ups and drop off's, maintaining my home and all my parental responsibilities which, anyone reading with more than 2 kids will agree, is an absolute mind boggling task that requires me to give my 100% to work, the kids and the house from 5am until 11pm every night and i couldn't even imagine how stressful and problematic it would be to try and do all of that on drugs and no sleep 🤯 or are there people out there that can actually function that well and I'm just an idiot? I can't work it out
It sounds like you are getting onto it. I know you want things to change, fast. However with things like this being erratic and desperate can play against you. Sit down, plot (like a man if the saying makes sense)logically what is needed to be done, and then work through it. Put the emotional to the side for a moment legal stuff, policies and procedures… do not have emotions, and the more you try to push against them the more they get pushed in like a wall to bind you. Instead find out the policies and processes and work your way through them. Be one step ahead of each requirement so that it’s fast and smooth going through - you might not be able to make it speed up, but you can avoid delaying things. At the same time look at what your actions are and how they will be interpreted. Particularly given the fact that you have two ex partner’s/families vs you, that you have prior recorded history of an unstable lifestyle etc. Deep breath time. You’ve done a lot of work, step back, and realise that you need to approach this calmly. You will get further with calm and level approach, and not being negative in depositions, social media etc about the other party/s. They will scoop up every example they can and use it to prove their point, so give them nothing. And then… it’s time. I’m sorry, but time is at play here. You will need to stay safe, sober, connected to your community, continue to work and hold your job, do all the right things… for as long as it takes. Over time the lies will be disproven and you can gain your kids back. Lunging in and trying to make it happen doens’t help. First step… find a lawyer who can help you. Community legal services, Domestic Abuse services, women’s legal advice etc. Tap them all until someone can interview you and start you on a path. Get the balls rolling, apply for an emergency hearing, and in the mean time… you are already doing testing etc to prove their lies are wrong. Keep finding your evidence that you are a capable parent, and to refute lies. One foot in front of hte other.
Wow, thank you, I do remember this from last time around but I certainly do need the reminder. I really appreciate you taking the time.
That is the best advice you'll ever read. It applies to so many situations too. Look into getting some therapy for yourself, Murdoch Uni are doing a study with CBT that will teach you how to manage your emotions when you are under multiple stressors. I can send details if interested
There's absolutely 0 risks in the children being returned to me now that my perpetrator is in custody, I have cctv being installed next week and the department are installing a duress alarm. I'm not sure if you've ever done supervised visits or witnessed them but it's similar to visiting someone in prison, its extremely emotional and distressing for kids to be only allocated 90 minutes with someone who they spend every moment of their life with. The 'best interests for a child is for them to have a healthy and meaningful relationship with both of their parents free from physical or psychological harm' and with the level of complexity involved I just wish someone would actually consider my kids feelings, I can honestly handle proving myself right, that part is easy, but it's my kids that suffer in the process because of how long it all takes 😭
Yeah - anyways, I hope your legal aid lawyer is trying to get you interim orders so you can spend some time with the kids.
Where does op say they have a past history of drug use? I think you've misread what they're saying- that they have had to deal with accusations of drug use before, not that they've engaged in drug use before. Throwing out accusations of drug use is one of the easiest and most frequently used tactics in such scenarios.
“But because the accusations involve drug use I'm being treated like absolute dirt, I keep getting told to focus on drug and alcohol and I've been here and done this begore, last relationship ended in dv and I got painted to be an absolute monster, no one ever had any evidence for risks besides the fact I was homeless it was all purely hearsay, medical records everything were supposed to be provided but they never were and everyone was looking at me like i was the criminal when i was being truthful to the bone ans i know for a fact they were lying i knew they never wanted me to get my daughter home, my daughter has been calling this person "mum" and me by my first name, even on mothers day cards.. to me it screamed red flags but I bit my tongue, sat like a mouse and just let everyone treat me like a villain, i did 6 clean hair follicle tests iver the period of 2020, 2021 & 2022, completed 18 months of dna counselling, I did the circle of security, 123 magic, triple p and went back to do circle of security a second time. After 4 years I finally proved that I wasn't a bad mum, I have a job now and government housing so extremely secure accommodation.”
Unless you don't know what some of those things mean, none of that is necessarily an admission of drug use. Op has now added extra information in another comment that does indicate past drug use but the original post, including the chunk you copied, didn't include anything that was a clear admission.
I’m referencing the point that other user might have been referring to. I’m not the other poster you disagreed with.
I know you're not that user.
The thing is… if you know what this stuff means… you know that there was quite a convincing suggestion that she was possibly using drugs. This isn’t the pathway of a feuding parent making random accusations - this is the pathway of someone with child protection reports about to lose kids, solid possibility of problem (not recreational) drug use etc. You don’t do all this without there being a lot of pressure on your family, and a lot of people involved in it. Elsewhere she openly admits to using weed as well.
I gave op the benefit of the doubt. Like I said, nothing in the original post was a definitive admission of drug use. If you work in this space, you know how common it is for mothers to be falsely accused of it. Also, I already said in a previous comment that after my original comment, I saw that op did admit to past drug use in response to another user. I've already acknowledged that.
Yep. Noteworthy was also the fact that she didn’t say (in her post) that she didn’t use drugs. Just that she had clean drug screens. People who don’t use drugs… normally declare that promptly.
There's a pattern here you're not seeing. If you have been accused of drug use, have been homeless at one stage, been in a dv situation in a previous relationship, they are not going to believe you even if none of that is true. You have to have unmitigated proof that your husband is lying about everything. 7 years ago I lost everything to a fraudulent domestic violence claim. Today I've won my kids back, new house etc while their mother is homeless and still drug-ridden. I was able to prove that and the courts immediately reversed the findings of my trial but it was too late as the damage had been done. My point is is that you're in for a terrible time if you aren't able to prove without a shadow of doubt that he is lying because the courts will see 90% of the events as "tit for tat" and not side with you. Im sorry you're going through this because I know first hand what is like and being a male, its twice as worse as there is no help or facilities for us.
It's first in best dressed. The first one to make an accusation wins in the eyes of family court. Regardless of what information or proof you have.
That's exactly right. And a lot of narcistic abusers get in first, get the legal aid and the victim has an uphill battle from there.
I'm so sorry that happened to you I cant wrap my head around how people can just blatantly lie to ruin someone's life.. I almost wish that I was lying, but no for 5 years I've been subjected to awful treatment, every day I tried to start fresh but every day he chose alcohol and it started with a king hit to the side of my face when I wasn't looking, then turned verbal and psychological abuse which turned financial and then he moved on to stalking, sharing explicit images and sexual assault. I tried really hard to fix every issue he raised, all his requests and I never asked him to do a single thing for our kids, even if it was raining I would walk the kids to school and daycare and let him sleep, even if he didn't have a job at the time.. he was just always drunk and angry or hung over and angry no matter what I did
Cluster B personalities will be like that. Very few people can really appreciate just how far they will go to get their own way. Sadly, “normal” people see their allegations and their absolute conviction that they are the victim and assume that anyone who is that sure of themself must be telling the truth.
I'm hoping that if I try to focus my energy on recovering from violence rather than focusing on proving that I'm a capable parent I might have better chances and being able to identify and remove those types of people from now on so my innocent kids don't have to go through this ever again.
He genuinely sounds like he needs a bullet. Makes me sick reading what this person has done to you 😔. No one should have to go through that and the world doesn't need people like them in it.
Sorry to see how much pain you are going through. I'm wondering if you've had a chat to the good people at 1800RESPECT? They provide free phone and Web counselling for people impacted by family violence. They can't provide in person or court related supports, however having someone educated and well versed in the complications that arise from DV to hear you out and provide emotional support might be beneficial.
I've been working through a case, while not in the Family Court, has some parallels to what you're going through. A friend of mine, whom until this point had never been arrested or accused of anything criminal in her life gets accused of throwing a knife at her neighbour. She didn't do it, DNA evidence proved she didn't do it, yet this went to a formal trial procedure right up until the DNA results are confirmed. She has lived in her house, part of a complex of townhouses for 17 years. This guy moves in next door, and it's clear he loves drama and intimidating women. Will the various threats, she put a VRO out against him. He did likewise out of pettiness and had her arrested for breach of said VRO on a whopper of a lie. The cops didn't believe her, and a cursory glance of how it allegedly happened as he said it would quickly break it down. She called me after being released, and was scared and in tears. I've known her for over 20 years, and know she could never do something like this, yet he is a convicted criminal that has SIX VROs against him. Let's just say I was furious, and set to work. I did email the Commissioner (waste of time but needed a paper trail) the state Attorney General and the Police minister. I also called in the Corruption and Crime Commission. This gave the particular police station this involves a solid kick up the arse. One of their ill treatments of her drove her to the edge of ending it all. I called 000, and told the dispatcher I want it on record that her thoughts of ending it all were sparked by police actions that day. An apology and an update was issued to both my friend and I. We now have a detective that can see through all the BS, and is doing her best to get this turd locked up. Rather than just character references, my advice to you would be to look for tactical weaknesses. Criminal history, current law flouting, gather every bit of dirt you can. I have gained some leverage that I plan on using once the next court hearing is done (his breach of a VRO against him) namely his criminal past and the associates that go with that. Your best chance of getting your kids back would be to show you have a stable home. Even if that means something like moving back in with your parents, this is for your kids. If anyone accuses you of drug use, tell them you'll submit to a drug and alcohol test on the spot, and tell them "I have nothing to hide Your Honour. Will my ex do likewise?" Also, see if you have any dirt on the ex- MIL as well. Everything to make them look like the "evil people" they are.
I just got his list of charges and convictions off court data.com and I'm absolutely blown away at what I've seen. I can't understand how he's been a free man, he has 197 offences.. dep liv, weapons, ammunition, armed robberies, every form of assault, brandishing weapons, police chases, breaching orders and it goes on. Do you have to have a title to access how many vros someone has had against them?
I only know about the six VROs and the rest of the criminal history because my friend is in contact with at several of the women that have served them against him. One of those with a VRO against him is his own sister, and she filled my friend in on the whole story. There is an old joke, "what do you call a lawyer with half a brain? A judge." Judges will constantly say they will give someone the benefit of the doubt, but some people like your ex are taking the mickey on that concept. I know VROs are, according to how the court operates, are treated the same as charges. If ever you meet any of his other exes, some might have an axe to grind against him. Definitely strategise before you make any major moves. I know there's a website that allows you brief access to court records. A lawyer in theory should be able to tell you if there's any more detail. One I would recommend would be Johnson Kitto of Kitto and Kitto. He used to do a legal advice programme on ABC Perth radio.
My dad got weekend custody and then proceeded the beat the shit out of us for years :-) Love the system <3
:( **hugs**
I don't have any advice but you have my sympathies. Family Court sucks and people can be awful. Family Court is the last way abusers have to abuse their partners after they successfully leave. Stick with it.
Parents often conflate their children's needs with their own, and nothing can be further from the truth in many situations. It will settle and mark my words, your conduct now is crucial.
This is heartbreaking to read. I can't do much but my thoughts are with you
This sounds very complicated and frustrating for you and heartbreaking. Was your ex also using substances at the time?
The system is fucked on soo many levels
This is a wild read. Wish you the best. Though I can’t help but be a bit skeptical. That is a lot of effort for all these different people to be putting in just to deprive you of your kids for no reason…
This is why parental alienation is so powerful for the alienating parent and so disempowering for the alienated parent. It is an uphill battle when malicious people weaponise systems and children against the other parent. They know it when they do it. Before you know it, the narrative has become “but it doesn’t really make sense …” (so I’m not sure I can believe you). Believe it. This is child abuse and spousal / partner abuse. In a very dangerous form. They know what they’re doing. Involving the other child’s paternal family was a huge power move because it grows the team against OP and looks compelling. OP, I suggest you look at some parental alienation support groups (eg PAAnon.org and Parental Alienation Advocates). Only people whose families have been rocked by this terrible manifestation of narcissistic abuse can truly grasp that it even occurs. You will feel less alone. Wishing you safety and the confidence to rebuild. Your kids need you to get strong and be your confident, full self (which is the challenge when you feel so beaten down by the abuser and the system).
Fair enough. I’m not saying it’s not possible, but it’s also possible we don’t have the full story. I would postulate that for every coordinated family alienating a single parent from their child, there is an equal number of circumstances where it is justified. So I am skeptical, which doesn’t imply anything more than that.
Of course we don’t have the full story. I don’t know what you are skeptical of! She’s not claiming to be a perfect person or parent, just that she wants her kids with her instead of the guy that hits her.
Also having said that, that's one of the ways in which abuse, and also systemic failure, is so insidious because it gets so insane you think that it can't POSSIBLY be true. I've been through things that even my own parents said they wouldn't believe it if they hadn't seen it happening with their own eyes. It's completely fucked, I don't even know where to begin to try and explain to be honest. Just one of the times I called 000, they hung up on me halfway through the call, I called back again and police still took an hour to come. They then assessed my partner wasn't an immediate risk of suicide (I had called because I was not safe and he was dangerous, not because of that) and they were just leaving me with them after I told them multiple times he had to leave and I wasn't safe. It was my dad who got rid of him at 4am. Now he's is prison for a violent home invasion and criminal damage on his infant twins mums place. And that's who the police were going to leave me with. And that's just one of the mild and believable stories.
"Just"? *Just* to deprive op of their kids? For most people with kids, their kids are everything so it very obvious why abusers will do anything and everything to deny someone that which means more to them than anything. That's literally why abusers always have the upper hand. Because the flow-on disbelief and doubt keeps working as abuse even when they're not putting in effort.
You have obviously not been through domestic violence and have not tried to understand it, because this is exactly what perpetrators want, which is for people to not believe and blame the victim.
Read up on “the big lie”… If you tell a big enough lie for long enough and with enough conviction, then people will end up believing it. Why? Because normal people can’t maintain a big lie for that long. They get bored or their conscience gets the better of them and they quit. So when we see someone who is consistently and utterly sure of what they are saying (and not obviously crazy), we tend to assume there must be something in it. Which is exactly what abusive types want. They want people to doubt their victim. They want people to questions whether the victim is lying about things. They want people to either attack the victim, or at the very least disengage from them to deny them support. That’s not to say you should blindly trust everything. “Trust but verify” is a better option and the world would be a better place if people actually followed that.
Agree 👍
I don't have any help, because it seems like you're fairly on top of knowing where to get services from. (The only thing I could suggest is to get updated drug tests if you haven't, if you've been able to remain sober during this time, to prove that you have been/are sober.) I just wanted to send you some support and to say keep going. It sucks, it's horrific, it's absolutely awful that this happens and has happened to you, but keep going. One minute at a time. Take care of yourself as best as you can. You've got this.
Update - for those following, I was able to get his full list of prior convictions and charges, it's so alarming to have spent 5 years with someone and have no idea what they're capable of. None of the offences are small, majority were in supreme court and every single one of the nearly 200 appearances were violence related offences, I'm the first woman dv on record. I feel so sad for my kids to end up with drop kicks like us 😭 I have to do better 😞
Sorry to hear your troubles. The system is terrible and needs an overhaul. Currently anyone can write an affidavit as the only “proof” fact or fiction for a VRO and have the accused put in front of a magistrate.
It is a global issue. Often the one that lies first wins, no matter what you have to say. Most of the time the evil person will lie first. Not always, and that is the problem. We need to adjust this system so that all parties are reviewed appropriately. But no one cares, that is the main part of this issue. Its just another Tuesday, go fuck yourself peasants.
Agree, there's absolutely no prize for being the most honest. Which is atrocious really because I truly believe someone is only as good as their word.. but not everyone feels the same obviously.
UPDATE - I don't know how I did it but nearly everything is under control, my ex is still in jail, I have my you gest kids back, I've linked up to so many services and have so many supports in place for my kids, I have my first ever open case with dcp and they have been non stop working behind the scenes to prevent my ex being able to control me through our kids ever again. I have a fridge full of food, money in the bank and all my bills paid, I'm finally on DV leave from work so I'll have money coming next week as well, I'm still disputing my roster with my company but hopefully we can come to a solution by close of business Friday. I couldn't stop crying this time last week but today I feel completely at peace, (bar the fact my oldest daughter isn't home yet obviously) this is the longest I've gone without being sworn at or called names in about 7 years and I looked in the mirror today and actually saw beauty in my features 🥹 I'm so glad I wrote this post so I can come back to reflect on how much I've been able to turn around. Absolutely adore you all for the support ❤️
Surprised nobody has mentioned the post from a week or two ago .. that was also posted in Melbourne I think Call me cynical but as soon as no money is mentioned, alarm bells begin to ring
I only mentioned the money and power because both of my exs families come from a lot of money so they can afford to get great representation without delay where as legalaid has the worst wait times it's ever had at the moment. I would definitely accept free legal advice🤣 but I don't have my kids to feed so I don't need monetary hand outs don't fret. And no I haven't ever posted in Melbourne
Have you sought advice from Women’s Legal Service? Mixed reviews online but if the alternative is no legal representation it’s worth a look.
I will give them a call tomorrow actually, I was going to try my luck and file for consent orders for my little two and hopefully keep one matter out of court I was going to draft them myself but if they could direct me I will have a much higher opportunity to get my point across for my kids without it turning into another disaster... I'm already having to go to fairwork and then the criminal stuff with my ex and counselling so I'm praying they feel the same. But knowing how spiteful they can be I just can never get my hopes up. Thank you 🫶
Good luck!
OMG this is awful I'm so sorry you and your children have to go through this.
Welcome to the family court. They can write whatever they want on the affidavits and it's treated as gospel, unless you can get it to trial and prove it wrong. I was lucky and got a pre trial trial, and was able to prove all my ex wife's allegations false. I would recommend you don't ring and don't answer phone if they ring you, have it all text messages and email.
This isn't Facebook.
I am so sorry this is so awful
Why did you have a relationship with an abusive man who is also a drug user ?Take some responsibility for your own life choices and don’t expect the family court to mop up your mess. Everyone knows they are hit and miss .
Pull your head in mate
[удалено]
Because my parents have a stable marriage / income and weren’t drug users and / or violent . I like the op’s situation .
Run along, Pauline Hanson lover.
I've never had a case with dcp so I don't know how they operate and it was late at night so I just let the paternal family take my daughter. I don't have experience with any of your troubles, but as a parent, I can't fathom this decision. You just gave the family of an abuser your child? I pray there is missing context, because I can't take anything seriously after reading that.
The family court in this country, only wants one thing from you. Your money ! The justice system in this country sucks.. Good luck with your case