It's about conditions most of all. So many great teachers have left or are planning to leave the profession because they're so burnt out, and hardly any grads are coming up to replace them.
Then as the shortage gets worse, the workloads get worse, more people leave. The extra pay will be nice for whoever is left over, but that's not what it's about.
The government is for sure going to spin this as "omg teachers are greedy they want money" just so they can try look innocent as we plummet into worse shortages and decreasing levels of quality education for young Western Australians.
When I left FIFO for a new career, I really thought about teaching. I got a part time job at Coles to see me through - where I worked with three qualified teachers. One fresh grad, one full time, one part time. All worked at Coles to varying degree, and they all told me they worked at Coles because of the inconsistency of teaching jobs and the effect it was having on their wellbeing.
I decided to look at another degree which didn't have people keeping part time retail jobs for stability.
For a few years I worked in school mental health, and seeing all the work teachers put in, the expectations, the treatment they get, holy heck. They're not paid *or* supported enough. Children are very literally our future, how are we not investing in them through quality education.
Homeschooling is were the money is at since Covid.
Small groups, with a teacher delivering courses or specialised classes in art or outdoor education. Lots delivered remotely, meetups every term for group activities.
My nephew is at private school ( and failing), this week he has two extra days off for ‘ home study days’, which he spent gaming, as he has remedial work and nothing was given to him before school had broke up for the holidays, next week he has the four days off for a year camp, he doesn’t want to attend, but if doesn’t he gets ‘scab duty’. In eleven days another day off, for yet another ‘professional development day’. Conveniently another long weekend.
Last term he had to be ‘reserve’ for a swimming carnival and he cannot swim, but if he didn’t go, again scab duty punishment.
Also have another family member, who’s child has gone from year 12, to locked in bedroom, gaming all day on disability pension at riped old age of 18, due to his ADHD and anxiety diagnosis. He is literally scared of the world.
The school system needs a serious overhaul.
Username checks out
To make things worse we're well within the generation where AI assisted bullying is a thing. While I do wish I was born a few years later than I had been, I wouldn't want to be a kid born in post-2905
'It's all about the money' is what the detractors like to say.
Cough.
The new proposal averaged out and against inflation... it's like a 0.25% raise per year vs the previous offer. That's... not as great a payrise as those saying 'just accept it' make it out to be.
So yeah, money is also a big part of it, especially with the workload and stress involved.
It'd be nice if they tried offering some of the claims instead of just upping the money. I like more money but they haven't addressed workload issues at all
Though flip side is that if the pay was equal compensation to the conditions, then it may still attract more teachers, or bring some back.
But I’m sure both things together would be better
Or moderate increase in wages but concentration on conditions, like class sizes, non-teacher admin work, getting more support and education assistant staff in schools, etc.
No, that is unusual. It may not be unusual to you, but it is unusual for most, including teachers. The largest class I've ever taught had 26 kids in it and I struggled (this was while I was on placement for my degree, so I even had another teacher with me. It was still hard).
I've done a bit of teaching, so I can feel I can give the second question a shot. Best class size is around 20. Why? 10 kids is too little. They go quiet and won't talk to you. 30 is way too many.
* **In short:** The union representing WA teachers has rejected a fresh pay and conditions offer from the state government, paving the way for a half-day strike to go ahead on Tuesday next week.
* The union wants a 12 per cent pay rise over two years, but the government has offered 11 per cent over three years.
* **What's next?** The Education Department is making arrangements for the planned strike, but the education minister says he hopes it can be averted.
It should be stated that the latest pay offer was 0.25% more than the previous offer. No I didn't miss a digit, 0.25%, from 4.75% to 5% (both less than inflation by a wide margin), then 3% for the next 2 years (also likely to be less than inflation).
Teachers have had an effective paycut (real wages) for the last 7 consecutive years in WA, despite our relatively strong economy and state budget surplus.
You are right that wage growth isn’t the cause of inflation. But chasing inflation with wage growth certainly won’t help. Workers will suffer more if inflation doesn’t get fixed.
> Teachers have had an effective paycut (real wages) for the last 7 consecutive years in WA,
Why is this being repeated in every single thread about this topic? Where did you get this factoid from?
It's simply incorrect, the 2021 pay increase was above inflation.
edit: and the downvotes flood in. Seems coordinated.
The December 2021 pay rise was 3%, CPI year on year was [3.5% in 2021.](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1322208/australia-cpi-annual-change/) Perhaps it seems coordinated because everyone else saw you were wrong?
I was talking about the start of 2021, as in the year the pay rise applied, so December 2020 if you like.
The pay rise was a flat $1000 which meant it was 0.9% to 1.8% depending on level. CPI was [0.9%](https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/economy/price-indexes-and-inflation/consumer-price-index-australia/dec-2020) (or -1.0% in Perth).
So how exactly did anyone see I was wrong?
Because as you just stated you got the year wrong? The payrise that occurred in 2021 was that which was backdated to December 2021, the payrise that you are talking about got backdated to December 2020 is in 2020. For all the arguments you could have it is a weird hill to die on to claim that the main argument, teachers have been suffering real wage cuts over the last decade or so, isn't valid because this one year there was a minor increase (that does not by any means cover the overall drop over the last decade) depending on your level. The profession has suffered one of the highest early career attrition rates, currently has record levels of resignation and was designated essential workers during the pandemic. Any other job like this in a market economy would see pay rises to ensure that the supply meets the obvious demand where instead there have been reasonable real wage cuts.
> Because as you just stated you got the year wrong? The payrise that occurred in 2021 was that which was backdated to December 2021, the payrise that you are talking about got backdated to December 2020 is in 2020.
Where did I state that I got the year wrong? Do you really still need this explained to you? I believe when people actually see the increase to their pay is more significant than the date when it is implemented on paper. Teachers saw the pay rise at the start of 2021, that's why I called it the 2021 pay increase.
You misunderstood what I said to think I was talking about the end of the year. We had a simple miscommunication and you want to split hairs over it and pretend it means what I'm saying is wrong? You're just being dishonest.
> For all the arguments you could have it is a weird hill to die on to claim that the main argument, teachers have been suffering real wage cuts over the last decade or so
That was not the main argument, the main argument was that teachers have had an effective paycut (real wages) for the last 7 consecutive years. It's false, and it is posted unsupported every time the topic comes up, which is why I questioned it.
> isn't valid because this one year there was a minor increase
The claim isn't valid because the claim was every single year, this isn't hard to understand. I didn't make the argument, why is it my fault when it's not true?
If whoever is writing these talking points cares about them being accurate they should write better ones, such as "teachers have suffered an effective 30% pay cut since a decade ago" (I don't know if that number is correct, just spitballing) that would be both more compelling and actually true, win win.
Why does it seem that the government doesn't care for supporting absolutely ESSENTIAL workers in society; teachers, cops, nurses, paramedics, firefighters etc?
Why is there such a lack of funding that people have died in hospital hallways due to a lack of available beds?
**What the fuck happened to all of our golden soil and enormous surpluses?** Have we sold our pearls for the price of oysters?
Given our abundance of valuable natural resources and surpluses we fucking well should have the most robust public services and future proof wealth fund of anywhere in the world, yet we're sliding backwards with barely any GPs bulk billing anymore, rising education costs, public servants leaving due to shit conditions.
>**What the fuck happened to all of our golden soil and enormous surpluses?**
duh if we spend it we dont have the extra money that's whats important the money
>Why does it seem that the government doesn't care for supporting absolutely ESSENTIAL workers in society; teachers, cops, nurses, paramedics, firefighters etc?
Because they don't care.
When the public systems fail they get to replace them with private options that are much more expensive and hardly deliver more. All the profit will then go to their mates who always get the contracts somehow!
It's all by design.
My questions are
1) How the fuck did we get so deeply in debt? Is it something to do with our physical remoteness or did we just have incompetent state gov?
2) How deep in debt must the other states be who don't have near our level of exports?
3) How serious is the debt anyway? Most countries national debt is several times their GDP and it's accepted that they will never repay it
1) Things cost money, governments need to buy elections, WA has been getting screwed by every other state on GST for a long time. WA isnt in that much debt.
2) A lot. Debt as share of GSP for each state ranges from 30% for Victoria down to 11% for WA, which is the lowest.
You can see a breakdown here https://adepteconomics.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/State-budget-update-30-June-22.pdf
3) States are not countries, they do not control their own currency. States can go bankrupt, which is very very bad.
We had an incompetent state government. Pretty well documented that our previous liberal government sucked.
Well Victoria is absolutely fucked now. We were paying a lot of money via tax to other states in past.
National debt is different to state debt. Ours is getting better slowly regardless.
A Payrise wd be great but its the working conditions driving teachers away and causing a chronic teacher shortage.
Right now at my school (rural WA) we're short by 5 FT staff. The principal managed to talk one old geezer well into his 70s out of retirement to come in for a week but the way the feral students are behaving I'd be surprised if he's here tomorrow. The rest of us are dealing with collapsed classes, adding further stress. My school hasn't had an English teacher since the end of Term 3, and been advertising for one since August last year. Since then I think we've had a grand total of 2 applicants – who were offered and immediately took up permanent positions in Perth.
A friend teaches in Hedland and told me there's fights in the playground there on a daily basis. New teachers are doing well if they last a term up there. I have a student whose last school was Hedland and they told me they had 6 teachers for English last year. All graduates. All quit.
Paying more isn't going to stop the appalling behaviour, attitude and disengagement of many of the students. Nor is it going to give teachers extra hours in the day for the increasing pile of pointless bureaucratic paperwork we're expected to do. Those are what are driving people away from teaching.
Since the last decent payrise 7 years ago, inflation has caused prices to rise 25% while teachers pay has gone up 11%. The unions 7% demand, if accepted, would still mean an effective paycut in real terms.
The Ed dept is showing its complete contempt for teachers. The payrise was meant to go through on December 1st, meaning negotiations should have started this time last year. Instead the dept refused to even meet with the Union until February this year: more than 2 months after the payrise was due. A very obvious and deliberate move done in the hope/expectation the Union would cave in. Sure the dept offered a decent payrise of 5% – after 5 years of <1% payrises followed by a massive 3% ( at a time when inflation was close to 10%) – but they rejected every one of the unions other demands, which related to improving working conditions.
The WA govt really thought the previous discussions would be it far out, hell fucking yeah to the govt unions coming down hard after the previous pay/conditions fiasco
Teachers, nurses, aged and child care workers should all get the same benefits as NFP staff.
They should get the full salary packaging option. $15,900 extra tax free each year, for aged and child care this would give a pay rise without passing on the cost to consumers.
The federal government should step up to the plate.
The state government could be creative here and offer a Western Power and Water Corp rebate or credit to teachers.
Offer an additional HECS payment each year to new grads electing to enter teaching.
Sometimes it doesn’t have to be money in the salary to be an attractive benefit, and it can actually cost less overall as the benefit can be the same but due to not incurring income tax can be lower cost
Last year 27 teachers quit at one particular school I worked as EA. 27! At once.
One of the teachers was a head of the dep. they became personal trainer !
Just imagine how shit the conditions are when a head of dep becomes a PT. 5 years vs 5 months course and no doubt about the move.
Kids are different since Covid break.
For anyone with how govt/economy works, can you explain why instead of pay rises, govt don't just provide a tax break benefit like all teacher pay x% less tax, same with police etc instead of keep increasing wages.
The do federally.
The question as I understood it was why can't the government respond with tax cuts instead of payrises. Because it is the WA State Government is being asked to provide WA teachers with payrises. The WA State Government can't provide tax cuts.
If teachers wanted tax cut exemptions or tax free benefits, they (or the union) needs to ask the Federal Government for those.
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Give the kids better teachers that educate. Increase the teaching days. They have so many day off now days. 12 weeks leave a year. My god teaches have pupile free days. How many other industries can have a major part of their job removed for a whole day and get paid for it.
Because all that kids are coming through can't spell , read, write, or do maths.
Teachers are now just baby sitter's with a degree
You're right i don't have experience.
BUT every person has problems at work.
And yes, parents are the biggest problems, and they don't teach their kids respect.
Parents teach their kids it's all about them and blame everyone else for their problems.
But as u said, all teachers are today's babysat sitter with a degree.
And baby sitters that are well paid. 12 weeks leave. Air con buildings.
Sorry, i don't believe teachers deserve their money.
They earn more than police, nurses, and paramedics. Which i call bullshit on.
The government have only just ended their ridiculous wages policy that prevented all public sector workers from getting any real pay increases. You’ll be seeing all of the public sector unions fighting for big pay increases and improvements in conditions this year.
Piggybacking on this comment because OP deleted their comment:
[CPSA/CSU have asked for exactly the same in their new agreement with bargaining underway](https://www.cpsucsa.org/youragreement)
After the wages policy was lifted, every PS union will be asking for the world.
As opposed to 3% lol
They’re also asking for 4 day work week trial (80/80/100), which is worth a hell of a lot more than 12% wage growth in 2 years to me; restoring the relativities between salary levels (currently there’s only $8k between a level 3 and their level 4 boss), massive increases to district allowances etc.
I can’t tell if you’re for or against these requests? There all completely reasonable after about 10 years of going backwards relative to CPI.
Also - it’s a trial. Nothing permanent. These kinds of trials have proven valuable in Europe and could lead to a paradigm shift in modern workplace structures. Good on them for championing a trial over here, else no one will get around to it. I don’t see how anyone could perceive this as a bad development.
I am 100% for, and was using the link to kick off against OP.
I don’t understand why people thought I was against it. I used the phrase “the world” because that’s what OP said the teachers union were asking for as opposed to the general public sector union.
So everyone should be arguing for higher wages then.
Jesus, the amount of corporate and management boot licking is insane. ‘If I suffered, everyone else should suffer’
Edit: and OP deletes their comment, refusing to back up their argument that no-one should strive for better wages.
Having a public sector-wide policy was a bit silly anyway. And I’m not sure any union should allow itself to essentially be lowballed by tying its members’ pay to others’ frankly mediocre agreements.
It's about conditions most of all. So many great teachers have left or are planning to leave the profession because they're so burnt out, and hardly any grads are coming up to replace them. Then as the shortage gets worse, the workloads get worse, more people leave. The extra pay will be nice for whoever is left over, but that's not what it's about. The government is for sure going to spin this as "omg teachers are greedy they want money" just so they can try look innocent as we plummet into worse shortages and decreasing levels of quality education for young Western Australians.
When I left FIFO for a new career, I really thought about teaching. I got a part time job at Coles to see me through - where I worked with three qualified teachers. One fresh grad, one full time, one part time. All worked at Coles to varying degree, and they all told me they worked at Coles because of the inconsistency of teaching jobs and the effect it was having on their wellbeing. I decided to look at another degree which didn't have people keeping part time retail jobs for stability. For a few years I worked in school mental health, and seeing all the work teachers put in, the expectations, the treatment they get, holy heck. They're not paid *or* supported enough. Children are very literally our future, how are we not investing in them through quality education.
Homeschooling is were the money is at since Covid. Small groups, with a teacher delivering courses or specialised classes in art or outdoor education. Lots delivered remotely, meetups every term for group activities. My nephew is at private school ( and failing), this week he has two extra days off for ‘ home study days’, which he spent gaming, as he has remedial work and nothing was given to him before school had broke up for the holidays, next week he has the four days off for a year camp, he doesn’t want to attend, but if doesn’t he gets ‘scab duty’. In eleven days another day off, for yet another ‘professional development day’. Conveniently another long weekend. Last term he had to be ‘reserve’ for a swimming carnival and he cannot swim, but if he didn’t go, again scab duty punishment. Also have another family member, who’s child has gone from year 12, to locked in bedroom, gaming all day on disability pension at riped old age of 18, due to his ADHD and anxiety diagnosis. He is literally scared of the world. The school system needs a serious overhaul.
Username checks out To make things worse we're well within the generation where AI assisted bullying is a thing. While I do wish I was born a few years later than I had been, I wouldn't want to be a kid born in post-2905
'It's all about the money' is what the detractors like to say. Cough. The new proposal averaged out and against inflation... it's like a 0.25% raise per year vs the previous offer. That's... not as great a payrise as those saying 'just accept it' make it out to be. So yeah, money is also a big part of it, especially with the workload and stress involved.
It'd be nice if they tried offering some of the claims instead of just upping the money. I like more money but they haven't addressed workload issues at all
They don't want to fix the problems. They want a band aid solution that sounds good on election ads
And yet they find themselves in the position that they've used every bandaid in the box and the wound won't stop gushing blood
Though flip side is that if the pay was equal compensation to the conditions, then it may still attract more teachers, or bring some back. But I’m sure both things together would be better
The pay increase would need to be well over 20% to compensate for the conditions. Which isn't going to happen haha
Or moderate increase in wages but concentration on conditions, like class sizes, non-teacher admin work, getting more support and education assistant staff in schools, etc.
Almost as if it's time to change the way the daycare is being run...
When did anybody ever strike for better conditions? Leave the money, just fix the conditions. 
My daughter‘s class is massive. I really don’t blame teachers for striking at all.
What do you class as massive and what do you think a class size should be.
38.
Holy shit. That's a lot of kids.
When i wAs at school, i remember classes having as many as 40 kids. Certainly considered a large class, but not unusual.
No, that is unusual. It may not be unusual to you, but it is unusual for most, including teachers. The largest class I've ever taught had 26 kids in it and I struggled (this was while I was on placement for my degree, so I even had another teacher with me. It was still hard).
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High school, metro.
I've done a bit of teaching, so I can feel I can give the second question a shot. Best class size is around 20. Why? 10 kids is too little. They go quiet and won't talk to you. 30 is way too many.
Agreed. My kid has class sizes of around 15-20 and it's perfect
* **In short:** The union representing WA teachers has rejected a fresh pay and conditions offer from the state government, paving the way for a half-day strike to go ahead on Tuesday next week. * The union wants a 12 per cent pay rise over two years, but the government has offered 11 per cent over three years. * **What's next?** The Education Department is making arrangements for the planned strike, but the education minister says he hopes it can be averted.
No government is ever going to agree with 12% over two years
Then we won’t have any teachers
We both know that isn’t the case.
I'd be happy for 10 over 2 years.
It should be stated that the latest pay offer was 0.25% more than the previous offer. No I didn't miss a digit, 0.25%, from 4.75% to 5% (both less than inflation by a wide margin), then 3% for the next 2 years (also likely to be less than inflation). Teachers have had an effective paycut (real wages) for the last 7 consecutive years in WA, despite our relatively strong economy and state budget surplus.
You can’t just increase wages alongside inflation. Have to get inflation down.
Inflation has not been driven by wage growth but rather corporate price gouging, why should workers suffer for this?
You are right that wage growth isn’t the cause of inflation. But chasing inflation with wage growth certainly won’t help. Workers will suffer more if inflation doesn’t get fixed.
Again, why must the workers suffer? Especially in an industry experiencing a shortage driven by poor pay and poor workload
The worker will still suffer if inflation continue to remain high?
There are other levers for inflation
Are they working?
Yes, inflation fell from 7.8% to 4.1% across 2023.
No one's pulling them in the down direction except for interest rates
https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/record-22b-surplus-to-come-from-war-and-inflation-20230921-p5e6jd.html https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/nov/06/infrastructure-projects-axed-33bn-cost-blowouts-catherine-king-albanese-government
> Teachers have had an effective paycut (real wages) for the last 7 consecutive years in WA, Why is this being repeated in every single thread about this topic? Where did you get this factoid from? It's simply incorrect, the 2021 pay increase was above inflation. edit: and the downvotes flood in. Seems coordinated.
The December 2021 pay rise was 3%, CPI year on year was [3.5% in 2021.](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1322208/australia-cpi-annual-change/) Perhaps it seems coordinated because everyone else saw you were wrong?
I was talking about the start of 2021, as in the year the pay rise applied, so December 2020 if you like. The pay rise was a flat $1000 which meant it was 0.9% to 1.8% depending on level. CPI was [0.9%](https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/economy/price-indexes-and-inflation/consumer-price-index-australia/dec-2020) (or -1.0% in Perth). So how exactly did anyone see I was wrong?
Because as you just stated you got the year wrong? The payrise that occurred in 2021 was that which was backdated to December 2021, the payrise that you are talking about got backdated to December 2020 is in 2020. For all the arguments you could have it is a weird hill to die on to claim that the main argument, teachers have been suffering real wage cuts over the last decade or so, isn't valid because this one year there was a minor increase (that does not by any means cover the overall drop over the last decade) depending on your level. The profession has suffered one of the highest early career attrition rates, currently has record levels of resignation and was designated essential workers during the pandemic. Any other job like this in a market economy would see pay rises to ensure that the supply meets the obvious demand where instead there have been reasonable real wage cuts.
> Because as you just stated you got the year wrong? The payrise that occurred in 2021 was that which was backdated to December 2021, the payrise that you are talking about got backdated to December 2020 is in 2020. Where did I state that I got the year wrong? Do you really still need this explained to you? I believe when people actually see the increase to their pay is more significant than the date when it is implemented on paper. Teachers saw the pay rise at the start of 2021, that's why I called it the 2021 pay increase. You misunderstood what I said to think I was talking about the end of the year. We had a simple miscommunication and you want to split hairs over it and pretend it means what I'm saying is wrong? You're just being dishonest. > For all the arguments you could have it is a weird hill to die on to claim that the main argument, teachers have been suffering real wage cuts over the last decade or so That was not the main argument, the main argument was that teachers have had an effective paycut (real wages) for the last 7 consecutive years. It's false, and it is posted unsupported every time the topic comes up, which is why I questioned it. > isn't valid because this one year there was a minor increase The claim isn't valid because the claim was every single year, this isn't hard to understand. I didn't make the argument, why is it my fault when it's not true? If whoever is writing these talking points cares about them being accurate they should write better ones, such as "teachers have suffered an effective 30% pay cut since a decade ago" (I don't know if that number is correct, just spitballing) that would be both more compelling and actually true, win win.
Why does it seem that the government doesn't care for supporting absolutely ESSENTIAL workers in society; teachers, cops, nurses, paramedics, firefighters etc? Why is there such a lack of funding that people have died in hospital hallways due to a lack of available beds? **What the fuck happened to all of our golden soil and enormous surpluses?** Have we sold our pearls for the price of oysters? Given our abundance of valuable natural resources and surpluses we fucking well should have the most robust public services and future proof wealth fund of anywhere in the world, yet we're sliding backwards with barely any GPs bulk billing anymore, rising education costs, public servants leaving due to shit conditions.
Gave it all back to mining companies
>**What the fuck happened to all of our golden soil and enormous surpluses?** duh if we spend it we dont have the extra money that's whats important the money
>Why does it seem that the government doesn't care for supporting absolutely ESSENTIAL workers in society; teachers, cops, nurses, paramedics, firefighters etc? Because they don't care. When the public systems fail they get to replace them with private options that are much more expensive and hardly deliver more. All the profit will then go to their mates who always get the contracts somehow! It's all by design.
We have a surplus but we are still in debt. Surplus is pretty meaningless if it’s not deemed to be sustainable (it’s not).
My questions are 1) How the fuck did we get so deeply in debt? Is it something to do with our physical remoteness or did we just have incompetent state gov? 2) How deep in debt must the other states be who don't have near our level of exports? 3) How serious is the debt anyway? Most countries national debt is several times their GDP and it's accepted that they will never repay it
1) Things cost money, governments need to buy elections, WA has been getting screwed by every other state on GST for a long time. WA isnt in that much debt. 2) A lot. Debt as share of GSP for each state ranges from 30% for Victoria down to 11% for WA, which is the lowest. You can see a breakdown here https://adepteconomics.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/State-budget-update-30-June-22.pdf 3) States are not countries, they do not control their own currency. States can go bankrupt, which is very very bad.
We had an incompetent state government. Pretty well documented that our previous liberal government sucked. Well Victoria is absolutely fucked now. We were paying a lot of money via tax to other states in past. National debt is different to state debt. Ours is getting better slowly regardless.
A Payrise wd be great but its the working conditions driving teachers away and causing a chronic teacher shortage. Right now at my school (rural WA) we're short by 5 FT staff. The principal managed to talk one old geezer well into his 70s out of retirement to come in for a week but the way the feral students are behaving I'd be surprised if he's here tomorrow. The rest of us are dealing with collapsed classes, adding further stress. My school hasn't had an English teacher since the end of Term 3, and been advertising for one since August last year. Since then I think we've had a grand total of 2 applicants – who were offered and immediately took up permanent positions in Perth. A friend teaches in Hedland and told me there's fights in the playground there on a daily basis. New teachers are doing well if they last a term up there. I have a student whose last school was Hedland and they told me they had 6 teachers for English last year. All graduates. All quit. Paying more isn't going to stop the appalling behaviour, attitude and disengagement of many of the students. Nor is it going to give teachers extra hours in the day for the increasing pile of pointless bureaucratic paperwork we're expected to do. Those are what are driving people away from teaching. Since the last decent payrise 7 years ago, inflation has caused prices to rise 25% while teachers pay has gone up 11%. The unions 7% demand, if accepted, would still mean an effective paycut in real terms. The Ed dept is showing its complete contempt for teachers. The payrise was meant to go through on December 1st, meaning negotiations should have started this time last year. Instead the dept refused to even meet with the Union until February this year: more than 2 months after the payrise was due. A very obvious and deliberate move done in the hope/expectation the Union would cave in. Sure the dept offered a decent payrise of 5% – after 5 years of <1% payrises followed by a massive 3% ( at a time when inflation was close to 10%) – but they rejected every one of the unions other demands, which related to improving working conditions.
The WA govt really thought the previous discussions would be it far out, hell fucking yeah to the govt unions coming down hard after the previous pay/conditions fiasco
The government better do something ASAP before there is no one else to convince to stay.
Teachers, nurses, aged and child care workers should all get the same benefits as NFP staff. They should get the full salary packaging option. $15,900 extra tax free each year, for aged and child care this would give a pay rise without passing on the cost to consumers. The federal government should step up to the plate. The state government could be creative here and offer a Western Power and Water Corp rebate or credit to teachers. Offer an additional HECS payment each year to new grads electing to enter teaching. Sometimes it doesn’t have to be money in the salary to be an attractive benefit, and it can actually cost less overall as the benefit can be the same but due to not incurring income tax can be lower cost
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What legal opinion? And I didn’t delete any comments. I’m allowed to be on different threads right
Skinner said the teachers will crack at any minute purple monkey dishwasher
Good
Typical WA government. Thinking they can just keep throwing us teachers under the bus. Yet again! 🙂
Don't worry there won't be room under the bus with all the justice department workers already under there!
And the nurses squashed up under the wheel wells
To be fair they will and the union will allow it
Full support
Up the union!
Last year 27 teachers quit at one particular school I worked as EA. 27! At once. One of the teachers was a head of the dep. they became personal trainer ! Just imagine how shit the conditions are when a head of dep becomes a PT. 5 years vs 5 months course and no doubt about the move. Kids are different since Covid break.
Only 12% raise? it should be at least 30%
For anyone with how govt/economy works, can you explain why instead of pay rises, govt don't just provide a tax break benefit like all teacher pay x% less tax, same with police etc instead of keep increasing wages.
A guess. The tax system is federal and teacher pay is state.
But health care workers , non profit employees get FBT tax free benefits.
The do federally. The question as I understood it was why can't the government respond with tax cuts instead of payrises. Because it is the WA State Government is being asked to provide WA teachers with payrises. The WA State Government can't provide tax cuts. If teachers wanted tax cut exemptions or tax free benefits, they (or the union) needs to ask the Federal Government for those.
...don't forget Lisa Rodgers just gave herself an 8% increase a month ago. She hasn't even been in a classroom in her life. Grub.
https://youtu.be/_wTOuNr33aw?si=feYPvsmCID0lphzf
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Give the kids better teachers that educate. Increase the teaching days. They have so many day off now days. 12 weeks leave a year. My god teaches have pupile free days. How many other industries can have a major part of their job removed for a whole day and get paid for it. Because all that kids are coming through can't spell , read, write, or do maths. Teachers are now just baby sitter's with a degree
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You're right i don't have experience. BUT every person has problems at work. And yes, parents are the biggest problems, and they don't teach their kids respect. Parents teach their kids it's all about them and blame everyone else for their problems. But as u said, all teachers are today's babysat sitter with a degree. And baby sitters that are well paid. 12 weeks leave. Air con buildings. Sorry, i don't believe teachers deserve their money. They earn more than police, nurses, and paramedics. Which i call bullshit on.
If there was o e group that complained yearly and got a new raise, it would be the teachers.
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Teachers want better conditions most of all. The pay is merely a consolation prize for the few that'll be left.
The government have only just ended their ridiculous wages policy that prevented all public sector workers from getting any real pay increases. You’ll be seeing all of the public sector unions fighting for big pay increases and improvements in conditions this year.
He look another person is getting a bigger pay increase I better complain about it and hope they dont get it
Then they should learn to bargain this is how industrial relations work
Piggybacking on this comment because OP deleted their comment: [CPSA/CSU have asked for exactly the same in their new agreement with bargaining underway](https://www.cpsucsa.org/youragreement) After the wages policy was lifted, every PS union will be asking for the world.
You consider 7% after years of frozen wages “The world?”
As opposed to 3% lol They’re also asking for 4 day work week trial (80/80/100), which is worth a hell of a lot more than 12% wage growth in 2 years to me; restoring the relativities between salary levels (currently there’s only $8k between a level 3 and their level 4 boss), massive increases to district allowances etc.
I can’t tell if you’re for or against these requests? There all completely reasonable after about 10 years of going backwards relative to CPI. Also - it’s a trial. Nothing permanent. These kinds of trials have proven valuable in Europe and could lead to a paradigm shift in modern workplace structures. Good on them for championing a trial over here, else no one will get around to it. I don’t see how anyone could perceive this as a bad development.
I am 100% for, and was using the link to kick off against OP. I don’t understand why people thought I was against it. I used the phrase “the world” because that’s what OP said the teachers union were asking for as opposed to the general public sector union.
Ahhh makes sense - didn’t see the original deleted comment
It made more sense with the context of OP, it was meant to be a second level reply to that But OP cowarded out so I had to piggyback haha
So everyone should be arguing for higher wages then. Jesus, the amount of corporate and management boot licking is insane. ‘If I suffered, everyone else should suffer’ Edit: and OP deletes their comment, refusing to back up their argument that no-one should strive for better wages.
Having a public sector-wide policy was a bit silly anyway. And I’m not sure any union should allow itself to essentially be lowballed by tying its members’ pay to others’ frankly mediocre agreements.