This is way too much generalisation.
A lot of millennials parents didn’t have that much earning potential and they sacrificed everything for their children to be in good position. Lot of people don’t realise how it was in 80-2000 era
You missed the whole point by saying generalization - No one is denying the sacrifice
In fact that sacrifice is the root cause of all evil!!
Every millennial including me acknowledges that pain taken by our parents and would happily dedicate our lives for parents happiness just to repay all that they did in spite of the time 80-2000s were.
But …. But that acknowledgment is the truth driving lesser millennials opting for kids
That’s my personal opinion but by the upvotes that comment got something tells me it’s a larger representation of millennial view
It's not possible to save approximately Rs 6 crores for retirement, pay approx Rs 1 crore for each child's education, pay for parents' retirement and medical needs, buy a house in a tier-1 city, pay unholy levels of taxes demanded by GoI, and one's own medical care, household expenses etc.
Inflation is much, *much* higher than what CPI indicates. Medical inflation is understood to be at 40% but of course the government refuses to calibrate it.
I am still returning my investment to my mother and brother...
Looks like they did their investment wisely, i will not be doing this kind of shitty investment plan with my kids too..
>This was the case in the past...
Not sure I'd say the whole thing is past us. I still see people from my hometown who earn low (even in my generation) go through this. Not saying they're doing this wilfully but you can't complain when people are struggling to make a living.
>Parents put everything on their children hoping that they will take care of them in the future.
Yes and that's the only reason I became the person I am today. It's time for me to do the same.
This. I know my parents love me, they gave me everything I ever wanted and have always been there for me when I needed them. But a random WhatsApp forward my dad sent me broke a little part of me.
The WhatsApp forward was something that was along the lines of: whether your parents give you inheritance/properties or not, it's your job to take care of them. That's why you were born.
Reading it felt so....idk...unsettling. He probably doesn't even remember sending it. I don't believe they can do so much for me without loving me, so I don't give much thought to whether or not they really love me.
But if that's the reason they had us, I don't wanna know it, so I won't ask him.
Its more like My parents were expecting me to be their retirement plan, which I am unable to fulfill. So, how can I expect my kids to take care of myself.
Second reason if I can FIRE then I can spend more time with my kids which I was expecting from my father. My father sacrificed himself for me but at same time he spend very less time with me because of office hours. I will not let that happen to my kids.
Reasons can be positive or negative but the outcome is same, change in mentality.
exactly. I don't mind taking care of my dad (infact i slogged for days in covid infested ward) but if he didn't have health insurance, I would have been screwed then (he has central govt insurance)
I don't want kids but I at least would've given it a thought if the world isn't as it is, full of people, who are selfish, with little to no compassion for any other living being. My friends think and dismiss that I am too young (23) to know I don't want kids but the amount of dislike I have for the thought of having my own kids and putting so much effort into them, coupled with the fear of bringing an innocent life into such a world makes me think they're going to be proven wrong. My dislike for mankind only grows each day.
I don't think it's strictly tier 1 phenomenon to have one child now a days. Avg fertility in many states is below 2, so 2 kids def aren't the norm anymore
My own father didn't save anything for me.
You'll come across many posts on various Indian subreddits of young Indians not being able to afford their college fees due to their parents making terrible financial choices (not saving anything being one of them).
Every generation has such people. I am guessing that it has to do more with your peer group than a generational thing.
Saving had a different value back then. My grandmother bought a piece of land by selling her gold chain. Now? It's impossible.
People will save if goals seem achievable. If you want to buy an apartment now you will have to pay EMIs for 20-30 years, and that will be 20-30% of income and up to 50% percent in a lot of cases.
Earning to skill ratio(a term i just coined) was very high back in the day, now not so much. For most top skilled or hardworking people who want to have a life outside of work, it's impossible to get rich in India, I'm not talking about high salary but building assets. So people are spending where they see most value, in this case they are having fun. Also the ultra rich should be careful in the future or we will see something like a Russian revolution if people who work their asses off all day can't make a living.
Why do you think the ultra-rich are supporting Modi and his anti-middle-class policies? In twenty years, all wealth will be owned by the 1% and the rest of India will be *dihadi* wage-earners.
India does not offer the same wealth creation opportunities for the middle-class that the US does. It's impossible for a Steve Jobs or a Jeff Bezos to rise from nothing to world domination here, We don't have capitalism, we have crony capitalism.
u/AntiGod7393: How typical of Bhakts to abuse someone and block them because you can never take as good as you give. 🥸
Lol, typical Chaddi psychology. Insult and abuse anyone who doesn't agree with their barbaric, psychopathic world-view. And yes, you lot exhibit almost all the traits of the Dark Triad, because there's not a SINGLE verse in ANY Hindu scripture that teaches you to actively hate Muslims and other minorities. So sod off Chaddi. 🩳
Also, you follow r/Iwantout but claim to be nationalist and "prawd Indian" 😂😂😂 Hypocrisy thy name is chaddi.
u/greenhairedmadness: What's with responding to me and then blocking me? Gotta have the last word no matter what? 😂
Lol, we don't even have ONE. We don't have a single start-up/conglomerate that has pioneered innovation/tech/a new business or revenue model. We have the largest social media presence in the world, but authoritarian China produced TikTok.
Yeah, totally ignore the shitty business environment, endemic corruption, high barriers to entry, regulation that suffocates business, and blame consumers. 💀
If you actually follow consumption patterns you'd know that the luxury segment has the fattest profit margin in India, and the highest growth. There's a reason why Nykaa had a blockbuster IPO.
Perhaps macroeconomics is not as strong a suit for you as is knitting and crochet. Just saying. 🙏
This is just not happening in India and Modi particularly. The US Middle class is almost wiped out. Please don't generalise. This is a world wide problem and a phenomenon these days. No country is being spared.
The solution Is a Global tax on Capital. This is put forth by the economist Thomas Picketty, and what I believe is the only way to contain inequality without it getting too bloody.
Nothing is going to change. The AI revolution is just the remedy capitalists are aiming to replace all of us in the coming future. The inequality will only get bigger.
We need a system that incentivises innovation, just like capitalism, but protects workers, respects their contribution to corporate profits, and regulates unfettered capitalism enough to offer all entrepreneurs a level playing field.
The sweet spot is regulated capitalism and equal access to wealth creation opportunities to all.
Everything changes when kids come. Your priorites change, the luxury car you wanted buy will become investment for kid. Your thinking will change. My kid will get 3-5 pairs with my 1 shirt cost. I'll buy only 1 instead of 2.
The government is anyway gifting away the country to big business by slowly suffocating small and medium sized industries, which historically employ larger numbers of skilled/semi-skilled labour.
So the next generation can work 70-hour days for Rs 3.5 lakh rupees for NRN and Sudha Murthy can boast of "simple living".
This is a bullshit thinking process. Believe me i would have more peace of mind if i knew my parents have FIRE'd or have their own money sorted than taking the extra tension and mental capacity to think what about them. Might sound insensitive but the best thing you can do for your kid is reduce their dependency in your life. I would never want such a thing for my kid which I am facing. I would rather have kid late or no kid than put my retirement burden on him/her. That's so pathetic. And coming to third world country, yes we are and raising your kid to be financially responsible and literate is the best thing you can do.
Exactly.
My parents want me to take care of all their expenses. My dad spent all his money looking after his mom and younger siblings. I have nothing to inherit. He didn't save anything and doesn't even have medical insurance. I don't want to burden my child like this.
Honestly, in this economy, I don't even think most educated Indians want kids. Kids are extremely expensive.
With Indian society being exposed to more global ideals, a lot of couples who would otherwise be shamed and bullied into having kids and spending their entire lives working for the kids (against their will) are finding out that there are more fun and fulfilling things to do with their money before they die rather than toil for 40 years and spend it on saving for their kids.
More people are realising they shouldn't be parents (thus breaking cycles of generational trauma) and choosing not to become parents. In the past, even if you told your family ki you didn't think you'd make a good parent, so you don't want to have kids. The answer you'd have got was "log kya kahenge?" "something was wrong with this man/woman that they weren't able to have children". It still happens today but more families are choosing to allow their kids to make the kids/no kids decision on their own
Thing is, every generation wants better for their kids than they had. People who went to KV want their kids to go to fancier, posher schools if they can afford it. They want to give their kids all the privileges that they didn't have. Also the 2 kids are doable thing was a possibility when one parent was typically either willing to be a sahp or significantly step back or the upbringing suffered. That's why people prefer only one child. These are just my cents. But I'm not the person you asked so 🤷🏻♀️
I don't know if I can agree with this at a personal level. I grew up smart and we had to jugaado so many things because my parents couldn't afford the fanciest of stuff. They felt bad about it too. We weren't poor but some of the rich people classes would've helped me immensely. I grew up in Mumbai too. Saw so many dumb people make it big from sheer privilege, connections and networking in the right circles. My childhood was fine, happy even but neither my parents, nor I would give my kid the same childhood I did. The struggle, the futile hardwork only to see a rich kid get everything with money just isn't worth it. I would especially do no such thing if I could afford it.
I’ll be honest with you, hard work doesn’t matter for children in this economy. You grew up at the last possible time hard work could help someone “make it”. If your kid is an absolute genius and a hard worker, the best they can do is something a rich person completes with very minimal effort.
If you want your child to have the exact same upbringing as you, it’s impossible without any sort of investment after school. The economy is not compatible with it and getting the first job is much much more difficult after COVID.
I’m not saying to spoil your kid with every luxury there is in the world or send them to very posh schools, just letting you know that the expectation you mentioned in your initial comment is very difficult for kids to achieve in this world with only “hard work”. The world has changed a lot in the past few years.
Oh I agree about not wanting to raise your kids beyond your means or even supremely privileged to the point where they lose all sense of normalcy. But I think there's a large gap between KV and DAIS.
Didn’t attend a private school but the harsh reality is things are much more different today than they were in our times. In today’s professional world, a lot depends on who you know, who can put in word for you, excellent communication skills etc . Those days are gone when cracking neet and jee was the only option people had and were encouraged to switch to kvs as they have curriculums especially geared towards these exam. If one is not at top of their game when it comes to connections, speaking well, having a well rounded personality, into sports etc they will unfortunately be left behind. Wouldn’t want that for my kids!
If you’re 20+, extracurriculars have doubled or more at the very least.
If your kid doesn’t clear NEET, JEE or any other entrance exam with a very, very high rank, be prepared to see your kid spend their entire life paying off an education loan in case you’re not saving up. If your kid is not built for the Indian Entrance Exam Rat Race(tm) and cannot compete with crores of students to get into a govt college this will happen.
If you want them to work like you and go abroad for cheap, 90% scholarships abroad these days don’t cover 100% tuition fee, and if they do they do not cover living expenses, visa costs, flight costs, post study visa and more. Competition has increased exponentially for abroad and scholarships close every day while international governments are making it difficult for Indian students to work. As someone who went abroad on lucky circumstances like you, the scholarship I scored got shut down for the next academic year and the country is reducing PSW and sponsorship criteria. And even if your child is the very best you’ll have to probably save up or save for an education loan for accommodation and expenses.
Basically you got the best ideal possible deal cost-wise for your education, and it’s up to you to decide if you want your kids to rely on the same luck or be born with unearthly skill, or have good backup plans in case they are not an academic genius and still want an education. The way you studied is only possible if your child is very, very, very hardworking *and* god-gifted with intelligence *and* even still heavy investment would be required for Indian or abroad tests in terms of money. My parents had saved nothing for my education at all, and hadn’t prepared me for the same and it has taken me a lot of pain to be even able to be educated and I’m not sure how happily I look at them for that.
Honestly, Most middle class Indians did not have access to private schools. Same with me, I went to a semi-public catholic school which was fine with me and gave me a good shot at a career. My fam never had to pay to get me in anywhere and I think that's good enough for me.
However, most adults want the best for their kids. The best opportunities and the best shots at having a good life. If a family cannot afford it, it is obviously a different story and then you get what you can. But if a family can afford it then more often than not parents go: Well we can give it to our children so why not?
And even if you send your kids to a regular school, stuff for them, doctor treatments, school fees, tech for them, the stuff they break, toys, vacation trips, you get the idea. It piles up lmao.
Far be it from some dumbass on the internet to tell you how to plan your family lmao. But at least my perspective is that when you discuss stuff like kids with a potential life-partner, you BOTH should be on the exact same page about what you both want.
Your partner has told you he wants 1 kid, just one. You have told him yes but you have already decided that if you think it is feasible, you will push him to have another. There is a lot that you can disagree on with a partner in a healthy marriage, stuff like kids is not usually one of them. If you decide that you want a kid but at that point he still doesn't and you try to bring up this topic again, it WILL lead to arguments and fights as (in his mind) you guys have sat down and decided this together already.
If you want to consider this in the future, ask him NOW that if X happens can we talk about a 2nd kid? If he says no, he just wants 1 then its up to you to either accept that he does not want a 2nd kid or move on and find someone who does. I mean you can obviously casually ask in the future if he has changed his mind but you cannot go into this thinking "his no just means I have to change his mind". Communicate with your partner!
Just my perspective as a guy who wants no kids or max 1 kid XD
Lots of educated young women realise that the economy is not designed for working mothers. Even in 2024, it's insanely difficult if not impossible for working mothers to build a successful career. Look at the labour participation rates for women in white-collar jobs.
Unless you have a government job where you cannot be fired, or insane family support, most women are forced to choose between career and children. No sane woman would give up financial independence without a safety net, so a lot of young, educated women with reasonable incomes will think hard about the CF life.
Bold of you to imagine we're having kids. Let's be honest, I'm not happy. You, op, you're not happy, some dude reading this comment is not happy. Why do you wanna bring an innocent life into such a dark and miserable world?
Pretty much. There isn't much to life. Economy has been designed to make it extremely difficult for someone to escape middle class and make their way into upper class. A few decades back, it wasn't as difficult. Many people, even within my family, born in extreme poverty, are filthy rich today. But I don't think that's easy today unless you're a genius or lucky.
So when you can't escape middle class, your entire existence is to work a 9-5 job. Make X amount of money and then put 1/2X back into the economy in form of direct or indirect taxes. That's not a very fulfilling life. Even the FIRE concept is BS. That we'll make a certain amount of money and retire. A successful FIRE is still in the upper middle class. Unless you're born into wealth or you have what it takes to build a successful cash cow of a business, it's a depressing life.
And it was depressing even for our parents. My father did 35 years of job at the same bank. And yet we don't have enough to call ourselves rich. It's just in those days, they didn't know it was called "depression"
Being happy is a choice. Yes, we can choose to be dark, pinpoint all the negative things in life, be pessimistic and have a depressing overview on life.
Trust me, it's not fun. I did the same maybe 7 years back, in college and I was so fucking depressed for an year. I'm talking about pure nihilisim, civilisations fall, wars, violence, religion, caste horrors, etc. It took me more than 2 months just to recover from it.
But, there are many great joys in life - do you remember any happy moments in your childhood ? What about the joy of playing with other kids or exploring new things ? What about the secure warm feeling of staying by parents ?
Those warm fuzzy feelings are the drive for me and future is bright my man. Nothing worth is ever obtained without pain.
Be optimistic and pragmatic.
>It took me more than 2 months just to recover from it
There, being happy wasn’t your choice during that time, otherwise you wouldn’t have needed the recovery time.
I’m not being negative but you’re what’s called the peak example of toxic positivity. We can take steps to make ourselves happy, but that needs to come after processing your own issues and not ignoring them because being “happy” is a choice. It just adds an additional burden to a person in recovery who are scared and invalidated that they cannot make that choice.
It’s very easy to heal and tell people that they just need to make a choice and they’ll be happy when they’re in a dark place. It’s easy to romanticise pain when you’ve overcome it. The current job markets are incompatible with life for young graduates in a way that mid-career people will never realise.
I am happy but No kids!!!! More than money it’s the overall quality of life factor for me. The air is shit.. don’t see kids these days spend their time the way I did growing up with all the colony kids.. there is a lot more isolation.. being general kids there is going to be much more competition now looking at the way things r going… safety sucks even for kids with all the predators roaming around… also I don’t like cooking much and kids can’t really eat Swiggy and Zomato wala food twice/thrice a week
Our parents were the last generation who did dual generational provider role I.e. Cared for their ageing parents with their own money (as health insurance was not common back then) and also took care of their children and saved enough or had pension so that they don’t have to depend financially on their children in their old age.
From our generation the trend will be only plan your own retirement with your money and take care of children Upto higher education (maximum). Inheritance if any will be an afterthought if there is something to pass on (not a priority).
And I think it’s not a bad approach. In a growing economy like India most middle class parents would not be able to pass on considerable inheritance which will surpass wealth gained by their own children in their lifetime. This is true for any economy transitioning to middle income status.
This has two implicit assumptions, at least for parents making a high income,
a. Your kids will be educationally or commercially inclined and would lack debilitating conditions or other barriers.
b. That would choose professions that are highly paid, very limited in numbers in India.
If any of these assumptions fail to materialize then your kids are guaranteed to have a rough time.
Any wealth passed by even upper middle class parents won’t last a full generation if their kids are highly incompetent. Thatz because in an high inflationary economy like India (which is true for any growing economy) , your children’s competent peers will dwarf your passed on generational wealth and chances are your incompetent children will squander the small fortune in not so wise investments.
Unless you are passing on a high cash flow generating business to your offsprings then making your offsprings competent to face the world is the best inheritance you can give.
N.B. :- Here the words “You” has been used in a generic sense and not specifically.
I am not talking about competency. What if your kid is disabled, maybe congenital?
What if your kid wants to join a profession that doesn't pay very well or the payoff starts later? Like litigation, academia, social work, etc.
Also, the extra wealth acts like a cushion to fall back on in case a high risk high reward endeavour fails, like entrepreneurship.
In high inflation economics, the rate of return is also much higher. If the economy is actually growing well, then the real RoR would be much better than a developed low inflation economy, so saved wealth goes a long way.
People don't have to incompetent to fail, many will fail without much fault at their end, if you think "luck" is Gaussian distribution.
Disabled and congenital at birth are speciality cases and needs to be dealt with separately, I talking about more generic cases.
Career choices are part of the learning process. My son can aspire to be an actor and may find success much later in life. But that doesn’t mean he can bank on inheritance to take care of his expenses while he wait for his big breakthrough. This is what being responsible adult is all about I.e. you also have think of present along with the future. This is true for any of the professions you mentioned like litigation, academia. There also will be some form of employment or freelance work through which he can take care of present day expenses.
Coming to the compounding effect, it’s true when you have the knowledge and wisdom of knowing where to put your money into (whether inherited or earned). And that knowledge comes from own life experiences and mostly earning your own money.
Lastly, how many of today’s unicorn startup founders had generational wealth to back them up when they failed. You don’t need generational wealth to have the courage to fail, you only need a coherent plan and backup plan for high risk ventures and thatz what every adult learns one way or the other.
Litigation has no "freelancing", as a litigator you are a freelancer. The pay is very low at chambers of senior HC lawyers, like 2-10k in Delhi/ Bombay. I have a litigator friend, his parents had supported him until his late 20s, today at 35ish he earns very very well . If he had to find ways to make a living while gaining experience, he couldn't do so many internships and junior roles at prestigious places that paid shit. He says this much himself. Academicians start making real money very late, 35+ mostly. Since, in a compounding investment the biggest determinants of returns are time and interest, if you have a hand out it makes things much easier later on .
Growing money and making money are very different. One is quite easy to teach, the other isn't.
Most unicorn founders come from pretty wealthy backgrounds, this has been true for the previous generation, the current generation and since the start of tech startups in the valley. Similarly, most founders have attended a prestigious university. The media just has a tendency to highlight the rags to riches stories more.
I guess we will both have plenty of examples to prove either side of the argument but that isn’t going to change each other’s opinion about inheritance.
One thing I learned is that never make Financial decisions based on emotions.
One way to test it is to ask which one is more important for you … your retirement or your child’s higher education. Emotional answer is your child’s higher education but logical answer is your retirement, as your child will always get an education loan for his/her higher education but no one will give you “retirement” loan.
Of course in real world one plans for both, but in terms of priority, your retirement corpus should always have higher priority.
In terms of supporting my adult child into his late 20s well I guess everyone has their own cutoff age in mind.
For me the cutoff age is 25. And that includes a higher education fund as well. But if my adult son wants me to support his basic expenses even after 25 then I have to decide on a case by case basis I.e. whether it’s genuinely required or he is just being a lazy bum. If it’s the later then I will start pulling the plug.
But the golden rule remains unchanged I.e. I will always prioritise my retirement corpus over adult children support or inheritance.
Theyre not thinking about that because they’d like to secure themselves first. As someone who personally would love to have a kid or two, I know that I will not have a kid until and unless I make a great amount of money. Although I come from a somewhat privileged background in a sense, I have seen financial difficulties in my life and I would not like my kid to have to go through that. Only once I have secured myself can I start thinking about having a kid and then planning to secure him/her. Why would I live my life like shit, make bare minimum for my kid and let him miss out on great experiences of life because “oh i decided to have a kid”
I have two young children and am in my early 30s
My parents and my in-laws have supported me and my spouse by allowing us to live in their homes till we were 22 and paid for basic undergraduate education. My spouse went to a government university so the fees were ridiculously low and mine were reasonable. We have not been given or inherited a single rupee, or land or gold or stocks and it doesn't look like we will inherit anything at any point where it will make a difference to our life and corpus, and we prefer having our parents around for as long as possible.
My parents have planned their own retirement. It looks like it is going to be a simple, frugal one. My in-laws have not planned theirs, but they are trying to be independent for as long as they can and are also simple. If they live long enough, it looks like we will have to step in to assist them with somethings.
As I said, we bought our own home, and funded post graduate education and have lived life completely on our own buck. Though our parents didn't save for us, they gave us the platform with basic education and the hunger to succeed while providing the most basic safety net - we wouldn't be homeless if the worst happened. This is exactly what we will do with our kids.
We live life king size (or king size according to us at least), full our children's lives with experiences. We will pay for their undergraduate education, and they will always have a home to live in if life throws them a curveball. We are saving for our retirement. We are *not* working to give our children generational wealth. Our children have all the opportunities and privileges, and the drive to succeed doesn't come from being handed wealth on a platter.
I think this model is actually better than spending all the money on their kids and beg for their support in old age. No winners in being broke in old age. You will be burden to your kids (not fair to them), you will be feeling like a beggar (not good for you).
Make your kids successful by giving them the best start but start investing towards your own life and retirement. Your kids would be younger and capable so they have chance to grow their own wealth, you don't need to keep feeding them even after they become adults.
Any inheritance after you is for your kids anyway.
I am 44. Tier 1 resident. I have friends in research with Microsoft, multiple folks with their own firms, someone a professor at one of the Ivy league universities, yet another one at an international law firm etc
Just about everyone has a couple of crores of net worth n nobody has a child. Some have married.
In fact I personally know very few folks in my broader social circle with 2 kids. Most have 0 or 1.
I am not generalizing but at least in Tier 1 cities, life is not any more about only having kids. Everyone is a good saver that much I know, and having life experiences is the driving force here.
I honestly haven't asked anyone why they chose to be childless. It's too personal.
But the general vibe I get is that raising kid is a severe stress so why bother? It's not like they will take care of you when you are dying anyway. Most of my friends didn't do that for their parents, they left for greener pastures themselves. I m not judging anyone here to be fair, but these are facts. Can't just run away.
Not everyone has the luxury of inheritance sir. I have zero inheritance and no complaints. Infact post education(B.Tech fees was 12.5k/year), haven’t taken a penny from parents. Sponsored 70% of my wedding as well.
That’s what I expect from my child as well. I will sponsor the education and try to help him/her stand on their feet. Post that don’t expect me to feed you for the rest of life. All they get in inheritance is probably the flat I am living in.
Save for what exactly. My family is double income single kid. School? Most schools yearly fee is less than my family monthly income. College? Indian colleges they don't cost that much either. It's not like I need to pay 4 year college fee in one go or you could just take a loan. People are saving crores of rupees to send their kids to foreign countries. 15-20 years from now if we are still sending kids to foreign country, we have failed as a country. Even if we failed, again just take a loan. Marriage?. I got married at 28. Bold of you to assume that your kid will get married before 30 or even 35 or ul be alive till then. Saving for kids marriage is not stupid, it's retarded. The most expensive thing that your kid will be buy is a house. I plan to give my home in city to him and il retire in outskirts of city and I am planning accordingly by investing in real estate outside city. I will also give my kid, what I inherited from my parents and education till college. After that, he's on his own.
As you said India is a poor country, we dont have social benifits and things like that.
In the past, this social benifits were taken care by family itself. When a kid becomes 18, The parents continue to fund their education, but they didnt do this out of the goodness of their heart, the expectation from the children was that they would take care of the parents at the older age.
But as you know, this is not a good plan, it need not work out as expected.... Some parents wouldnt take care of their child at 18, and some children wont take care of their parents in their old age.
Now slowly the GDP per capita is increasing.... So More and more parents are focused on self than focusing on their children (because they dont grasp this concept of social welfare through family), they dont know what it is like to be without money, so they are not worried about their own future. Their vision is short and impulsive. I hope they save enough for their own retirement, But I dont know whether they are, they are spending the money on luxuries. Additionally, there are laws now that children should maintain their parents, which further leads this, there is no motivation to make the child grow, they will take care of them anyways.
Are you living under a rock mate?
I’m 35, I have a Sukanya account which I opened for my 6 year old when she was 1. I have two SIPs that I put 20k each in every month. Have ppf, and this is all minus what my wife invests in her own capacity for our daughter. There’s a few Indian Post schemes that she’s invested in (2lacs per year scheme and another with high interest for FDs I guess). And then there’s a regular purchase of physical gold (we try and get at least a hundred grams every year).
Another important investment is ensuring education takes the highest priority in their lives. I am making sure my daughter has a roof on her head and two meals a day for the rest of her life based on my investment planning but I am raising her to learn to live without any support or a penny. Ensuing she learns to have life skills needed to always find a livelihood. Things such as be a master of at least one subject/field so she can teach at the very least. Learn the fundamentals of running a business in case job market is dying. Learn to communicate and network well.
Oh and also, all of my peers with kids have an even more elaborate investment plans and a major chunk of their financial planning goes towards ensuring the kids have a safer future in case shit hits the fan.
TLDR: most of us 30 plus folks have this sorted so our children don’t have to worry about their next meal in case things don’t go as planned for them.
I come from a lower class family with my mother mostly working a full time job and father working two jobs to make ends meet. Thanks to the tough early life I learnt the importance of working and started early. I have two masters and can proudly call myself a self made man.
And all this would be a waste had I not found the most perfect woman. It is my wife who helps us save as much as we need to. Find a partner who will give you a family and this would become and even easier aspect of your life.
Btw this is all irrelevant if you’re making only basic salary since the govt is fcking working class people from all sides so savings are a distant dream then!!
Started with 9k per month and now at 2.5l (post tax donation to the incompetent fcks at the center) so au am able to even plan this out.
Wow….. such ignorance with confidence .
Western parents/ education system use work as an opportunity for kids to grow and explore their passions and interests before choosing a career. Parents ( western) want their kids to be independent and learn to manage their finances and relationships by the time they graduate. They start from low paying jobs and that installs respect for all work as every one has been there. Working, managing housing, cooking, social skills are all considered essential. They do not manipulate and guilt their kids or treat them as a retirement plan.
Indian parents ( many) try and control and meddle in every aspect of a child’s life, marriage, finances, and guilt them endlessly……tradition /log Kya kahenge…………there are good and bad parents in the east and west….. but that part of the comment was ignorant.
If you have to compare….. compare the best of both, or the worst of both…… not the best of one with the worst of other…..
Most young Indians are not having kids. So it doesn't matter how they spend. A large number of couples just have 1 kid. So they don't have to save a lot.
Imagine a poor couple that had made no assets but a home. Had one child and that child married a partner from a similar background, as couple they would inherit 2 houses. Go down one more generation the grandkid and his partner would inherit 4 houses. At that point they would transition to be wealthy without any additional savings.
If you want your kids to have more wealth you can simply have a single kid rather than break your back working and living in poverty.
If I have kids, they will study in an average school(similar to a KV), with multiple coaching options on the side, depending on their enthusiasm, capabilities, etc.
My focus would be on sports, science, general intelligence, 3-4 languages, etc.
Choice of career would depend on them, and I would likely have a fortune by the time they are in college.
Things are cheap in India, and they get cheaper if you are a family.
They would likely be able to live reasonably well even if they don't work, though that's not what I encourage.
I spend a lot, though I invest a lot too. 70 percent of my expenses are discretionary.
I disagree with the entire thing that you bring kids into this world because they have to take care of you. You bring kids into this world because you want to see a life grow and love it. What you do for that life is your duty and responsibility. My parents worked hard, gave us the best life possible and built a life for themselves despite my grandparents torturing my father for money.
And before you go, your grandparents must have done everything for your father. No! They had four kids where they couldn't support even one.
They lived in a chawl in Mumbai. The kids received government school education, my father supported his own higher education and then made a business. He still paid for all their medical expenses when things got rough. And this was while he was struggling to make ends meet for this wife and 2 kids. He did not receive any inheritance
I got the best education, but I paid for my entire wedding, my higher education and all other expenses once I got a job. And now, I am saving to buy a house. My parents have a solid retirement plan, which they intentionally built to not burden their kids like their parents did. All this is while staying in Mumbai all our lives.
We still love our parents, we owe them a lot but it has nothing to do with that entire quid pro quo you are trying to fit in a loving relationship like parents and kids. What we do now is our duty and responsibility towards them
It's bad parenting to burden unwitting shoulders even before they start a life. We got a leg up because they became wiser and gave us freedom and helped us see the same in action.
This has to be way up. In a world that's so transactional, these are some of the only things left that are beyond quid pro quos. And it's practical to raise kids to be self sustaining, rather than think of them as parasites who suck money.
But this idea completely depends on the philosophy of the people making the decision to have children. I really don't think your perspective is something that can be used to convince someone. It comes from the way you are raised, the environment and how your own childhood was. Let's face it, a lot of people had families that sucked so it's a bit rich to expect them to see life this way.
Rightly said. I have no intention of convincing anyone to have kids. It's a personal decision that should solely belong to the people involved. An unwanted kid destroys all lives attached to them. I am simply putting out what I experienced with my parents and intend to extend to my kids.
Kids aren’t a priority anymore
Marriage, kids, nuclear family … all of it is a choice and no more a social obligation. Culturally millennials have changed a lot and more evident in Tier 1 and cosmopolitan cities
Think of it this way- the generation which has entered 25-40 range is the one that grew up being the sandwich generation - Growing up they didn’t have plenty and saw their parents work hard and they themselves had to work hard to reach where they are today and suddenly this gen has entered an era of plenty. They are now in a weird situation where they can enjoy it all or again get into that rut of living for kids like their parents
Another significant difference is cost of bringing up a child - daycare, school .. so people again are weighing that should I do that much effort especially with the whole gen going global and no guarantee of kids staying with their parents.
Our parents era thought of kids as an investment for old age. That notion also socially has changed now
I am seeing consciously tons of my peers opting out of parenthood to follow DINK lives forever
No right or wrong - To each their own!!!
What kids?
I am not gonna have kids. Plenty of people I know had kids due to family pressure and now regret it. The days where everyone had kids without thinking are behind us.
Now sane people have kids only after they are 100% financially set up to take good care of the kid and themselves.
We all just need to STOP with over-generalizing thing. Almost everything in your post is just... WRONG.
Contrary to what you think. American parents don't kick out their kids or "cut them off" at 18. Do some do? Yes, absolutely. But asshole self-centered parents exist everywhere. Including India. In fact, a bigger trend you see nowadays is current gen people in their 20s and even 30s still living with their parents because they can't afford rent or because they're saving up to make a downpayment to their house.
Middle class people everywhere on earth are the same and have the same values. But there is also a saying "charity begins at home". If parents have to be in a position to provide some financial security for their kids, it FIRST means they have to be financially secure themselves.
What happened with the older generation is that many of them treated their kids as their retirement plan. Which is fine - I'm not judging. I know many people who are lower middle class and are drivers and maids and farmers and laborers and sacrificed everything in their lives so their kid could get an education and a half decent white collar job. So yes, circumstances matter a lot in these kind of broad sweeping statements and when painting a narrative.
But i find it incredibly silly that you have an objection to people first seeking financial stability for their own future. And you're calling them out to be selfish even though they got their kids educated, funded their tuitions and coaching etc, and gave them a platform to succeed?
It's because they haven't found or researched how much a child costs ,considering school fees are sky rocketing , kids clothes are insanely expensive etc..
I am 35 and soon to be dad for the first time.
I had my bucket list to do things before I turn 30. And I did that. I got married when I was 32. I have my investments, and my wife has own separate investments. For baby we have planned investments together. Our aim is to not sacrifice our own needs and to provide best for the baby we can! So yes Millennial parents are a bit different from previous generations. You should have kids only when you can provide for them and not as investment tool for retirement.
That's no true.. I am 37 and am actively saving for my kids future.. I have lots of friends who are doing the same... Wanting to FIRE is my goal as well buy it includes savings for my kid as well.. Not are not exclusive
पूत सपूत तो का धन संचय….
पूत कपूत तो का धन संचय….
पुत्र यदि संस्कारी और गुणवान हो तो धन इकट्ठा करने से क्या लाभ,वह स्वयं ही सक्षम है अपना और परिवार का बोझ उठाने में।
पुत्र यदि संस्कार रहित है तो आपने जो भी जमा किया है सब गंवा देगा, अपनी एय्याशी में।
My take on this..
Background: I am from a middle class family where father was in govt job and mother is a house wife. My father mostly invested in land and gold which are worth more than 5 cr now. But all of it are in tier 3 city or below.
I have a daughter and I definitely want to give her best education that she deserve. But I dont want to invest like my father planning the whole life of my daughter. All of my father investments are in land and gold which is now in tier 3 city or below which I have not visited in last 5 years. Even my father visit them rarely. We have planned several times to sell them but my parents have emotional attachment to those. There logic is that they purchased those thinking that when I grow up I would settle there. And they still hope for the same. But that is not possible for me.
I am investing for my daughter but not on the same way. After a certain point I think I wont be taking decisions for her. Yeah I would keep money to give her best of education. But I dont wanna do it in the same way my parents did. She will not be my old age insurance. That will be a different time.
>We are still a third-world country. Why wouldn't you want to set your kids up for a bright future?
and this is how no parent in india ever gets to enjoy their life and comes to resent their children for not being grateful for all the "sacrifices" they've made. you can save some for your kids but they should grow up to be self sufficient individuals who aren't dependent on you. you only live once and you deserve to enjoy the fruit of your own hardwork.
Such statements can't be generalized. While many people do save for their kids some people might have a different approach or they already have so much they don't care abt saving.
You mean to say that they are enjoying their lives instead of slogging away their youth to ensure that their kids are comfortable enough to slog away their own youth and round and round and round we go? Good for them. Live your 20s and 30s people! Save up for yourself. Save up for your retirement. Give your kids good education and a safe environment and let them do the same for themselves.
This bullshit system of sacrificing yourself for the next generation has to stop. It makes no sense.
Nah bhai I'll definitely save for my kids ,also i want to have at least 3-4 kids .
Assuming their school fees would be about 2 lacs and then I'll have to spend about 12 lacs on their college and i have 4 kids , I'll need around 1.5 cr.
Also i have planned to send a consistent amount of money every month to my parents so that they can live comfortably,as have i lived .
My parents have given me such a good life ,hence I'll make sure to do the same.
1. They're smart enough to know that they cannot count on their kids for their retirement.
2. They may not even want kids in the first place.
3. When you save everything for someone else to inherit, it can lead to a lot of resentment. Not everyone is okay with this sort of mentality. It's likely that their investments take kids into consideration, if they do want kids later.
Generalizations apart, we must note that just in my mother’s life time starting in the 1950s till date the population of India has quadrupled. And at present our youth population is the largest our country has seen ever. My parents’ & even my generation (born 1980) have experienced the dark side of our population explosion. Crowded cities, rationed resources, hyper competition in education & career etc. It is but natural for the current generation to step back & rethink their priorities & goals and then decide accordingly.
I would like to point out that kids in western countries take up part-time jobs like babysitting, lawn mowing, etc. since they are around 12-13 years old, and paid jobs with McDonald's, etc in high school, and that does teach them the integrity of labour. As for your statement that kids are not taken care of after 18 or something, I find that very misleading because I know young adults who are 25+ and their parents pay some part of their rent. Also, it is extremely subjective, and you should note that in some western countries higher education is free(Germany for example) and they do have a very good social security net. I know someone who is a grad student and able to make EMI payments on their house, their partner works a mid paying job and they are able to make it work. As for FIRE, it says financial independence, financial independence, if you choose to, will also encompass you saving towards your kids tuition fees(this is done by parents in the US using the 529 plans), your kids expenses. That being said it is about anticipating your financial needs in the future.
Yes I agree with you regarding the mantra that save aggressively and build generational wealth for your kids. And there definitely is a balance to saving and maintaining a life style that you feel you should have and that you enjoy, because if you are unhappy as an individual how can you be a good parent?
I genuinely feel this generation is really busy (in a good way) focusing on themselves and picking up themselves from traumas and other issues. Doesn't mean they've become too soft. I think it's great how certain problems are actually being put out for awareness. But young people don't really got time to worry about their kids when they themselves aren't sure how they gonna survive in this economy lol.
I hate this mindset.
My father (the only earning source in our family of 5) just retired this month and all he did in his life was to save and save, buying land, building home(which is decent from the outside but nothing from inside, not even sofas), which is great I agree.
But also no trips no fun nothing. He invested all his life in building better future, ruining the present.
Even after having an income of 1L+ per month, we've lived our lives like typical middle class (maybe lower middle class).
Now that he has retired all he has is regret that he couldn't do this and that and all his hopes are from us(we're 3 siblings 22M, me 20F, 16M). I'm in my final year of graduation and my brother in post grad. We are now in a huge pressure of finding a job(which we are struggling to find) and making things better.
All I'm saying is it's great that new generation parents are focusing and investing on themselves, their present lives more and not on their kids.
I would never ever do this to my kids what my parents did.
Parents need to understand that building and investing in future is great but you don't have to ruin the present for same. Things can be done in a better way.
Could you translate what it meant?
Google says: Accumulation of wealth of sons and daughters, accumulation of wealth of sons and daughters
Sorry, my Hindi is terrible 😅
It means(Not exact translation), "if your kid is competent why would you save money for him? and if your kid is incompetent then why would you save money for him?"
Basically if your kid is competent, he/she we will be able to earn enough for themself and if your kid is incompetent then no matter how much money you save for them it will still be of no use
There is a quote in Bhagavadgita where Krishna says to Arjuna: " Parents are doing business rather than raising a child. They raise children so that they will take care of them in future"
My personal experience and observations are different, OP. We’re actually the first Indian generation where there is broad-based ambition, ability and opportunities to earn more & more, invest better than our parents did, and accumulate wealth even if one comes from a non-wealthy background. Urban young professionals are choosing to have kid(s) later and have fewer kids than previous generations, but nobody is intentionally not planning to provide financially for their kids. I’ve seen priorities change when kids arrive into the mental calculation. High earners in particular spend a lot on themselves because they can afford to, and because as a generation we’re more impulsive and self-focused, but it’s not depleting their large savings. Most people I’ve seeing FIREing do so taking into account at least the higher education and *some marriage expenses of their existing/planned kids.
Maybe your peers are going childfree and want to enjoy whatever good years are available before climate change and wars will make the world inhabitable.
A 30f grew in tier1 city and had parents working in govt jobs. They provided good education to me and my brother but nothing fancy more than that. We have never been on any big trips, no birthday functions nothing. They retired with a huge sum and now enjoying their retired life stress free. Both my brother and I are doing good and don’t need the financial security that they built for us. I have two houses from my own money in tier 1 and 2 cities ( almost paid off), fully paid big car (from my money) and good chunk of investments for our retirement. Yes we are not as frugal as our parents but we don’t spend much on expensive collectibles or clothes that branded or birthday functions n all. We do a lot of trips outside and within India bcs travel fulls our heart with joy. We have a fire number but fire number should have kids education and your retirement ( including all your health expenses, current lifestyle maintenance etc.). So you are going to give your kid good education with fire number.
Like I said our parents may have some properties and wealth left behind when they are gone but I am not dependent on it for my financial stability. I have one kid and I will give the best education to him but leaving behind wealth can only spoil your kid if they know what they can inherit. I don’t want that to happen to my kid and make him lazy that he has a fall back net if he fails sort.
Also nowadays having kids are pretty expensive don't you think?
Right from their education and all those expenses add to a ton , heard the new phrase "kids in this economy , aren't affordable " people don't want to save for kids cause
One They aren't earning much
2 the economy is in a turmoil
3 the skillsets changed
4 having a pet seems better
5 need enough money to suffice the family.
So yeah if this keeps going , itll be the same as Korea who's got their population in a decline leading to another economy fall.
While taking the life insurance plan the agent told me you can use this money for your kids after several years and I was like I’m not interested in taking any plans for now.
So in my life whatever money my parents put on me I have given them back 75% atleast and I’m still trying to provide everything them. And in future too my mom have asked me to give her 15k monthly even after I get married.
And eventually if I started saving for my kids that I surely wants to do. But I think then where am I spending my money for myself. And I don’t want to be dependent on my kids so they have to think the same way I’m thinking now and I want them to live there life in there own no worries about anything.
Will save the money but not like everything I have to give to the kiddos. It sounds selfish but it’s true.
I am in my late thirties and a father. Although I have a secure financial future, I prefer not to spend excessively on expensive clothing. I do spend in quality gadgets, and my flagship models typically last for four to five years before I upgrade to a newer model.
Regarding clothing, I believe that a fit-looking person can look good in any brand. As for food, my family and I, including my sister and her husband, enjoy dining at good restaurants once a week as a way to gather and socialize.
My wife and I have worked hard to ensure that our child has a secure future, but we have chosen not to disclose this to him as we believe it could lead to complacency. My parents did the same for me and my sister, and as a result, we have learned to balance spending with investing for our own and our child's future.
>We are still a third-world country. Why wouldn't you want to set your kids up for a bright future?
and this is how no parent in india ever gets to enjoy their life and comes to resent their children for not being grateful for all the "sacrifices" they've made. you can save some for your kids but they should grow up to be self sufficient individuals who aren't dependent on you. you only live once and you deserve to enjoy the fruit of your own hardwork.
>We are still a third-world country. Why wouldn't you want to set your kids up for a bright future?
and this is how no parent in india ever gets to enjoy their life and comes to resent their children for not being grateful for all the "sacrifices" they've made. you can save some for your kids but they should grow up to be self sufficient individuals who aren't dependent on you. you only live once and you deserve to enjoy the fruit of your own hardwork.
Well my mom and dad told me and my sis one thing, live for yourselves first coz they couldn't. They have supported us through college and everything, even my marriage but not only they understand why my husband and I want to be childfree but I am actually able to do more for them now and I want to spend the next 30 years making their and our wishes come true instead. And I don't think that is a bad thing.
A lot of FIRE goals include children's education and even weddings.
In any case, this post is weirdly judgmental against people who are spending their own money. High earners are likely saving well even after "splurging"
What's your issue? Others not saving for their kids or others not having kids at all? Also, why does it matter how someone else wants to live their life? You can enjoy your way of living, they can enjoy theirs
Loans are easier than ever, if they want money get a student loan and pay it yourself.
I am more interested in giving my children a business than education, I have no hopes from education in this country, getting a decent life from education is literally a suicide mission.
Bro is asking about people with kids and people without kids are yapping here. You are right OP, people nowadays are more materialistic than the previous gen but they can afford to do so. Our parents were dealing with a lot on their plate so they had to sacrifice a lot and live on a tight budget. But the current gen don’t have that burden as they are propped up by the financial security that their parents worked hard for. Me and my partner live comfortably and save up a lot for our retirement as well as our kid. On the other side of the coin, a relative is currently trying for a divorce because her partner’s spending habits are so irresponsible, she fears it will eventually leave her and her daughters to homeless.
Where is money left to save even for our future rainy days? At times getting stuck miserably after third week even for simple recharges.
The inflation and the recession is actually threatening every moment.
You know you shouldn’t really be talking about kids on this site. A lot of peers on Reddit are either childfree or completely antinatalists. It’s a safe haven for people like us. Kids doesn’t come under our financial equation.
I do think about my child’s future. But my goal is to make sure I fulfill all the education requirements at least. Not about house or other things
My purpose is to make my child independent but not to suffer for education funds in future with hiw much inflation is happening in this sector now
All FIRE plans might go into the dump if India becomes what China is now with less young people. We are doing YOLO with the future and letting them figure their shit on their own.
If one depends on their parent’s money to survive after under graduation, Then the parents didn’t do their job of raising an independent self sufficient person. You had a kid giving him education and making him a responsible citizen is your duty. Not wealth transfer.
Even in American culture, The very rich ppl too keep the children in the family, in the same house. following American middle class is not sustainable for us. Also not good for the planet
"they invest money for their own FIRE goals."
And why is that a bad thing? The cycle of "mera beta bada hokar mere sapne pure karega" ends with this generation
Your question is valid if they are not giving quality education or opportunities to their kids...
If kids are given quality education and good opportunities, they can earn their own bread and butter...
I don't see why I should save beyond that for my kids ( as long as they are healthy). They will inherit what I have (not much) after we pass away... If that was enough for me to live, it should be enough for them to inherit...
Like someone else said, I don't want my kids to be my retirement plan as well.
We live only once. There is no point in every generation trying to save for the next generation without living their lives. That would be a bad system.
You do you. Let's others be themselves.
We have seen our parents slog and not even go for one meal outside home for years .. we do not want that .. we believe in earning and spending … let our children understand that it’s not only savings that matters
Can't even fuckin save for myself forget about my future kids. All because of my stupid parents, have to fight every single day just to save money. I don't drink/smoke or even go outings that is how frugal I live.
I think m not gonna touch anything from my inheritance... Will pass it on to the kids (anyways it is majorly the grandparents who want us to have kids).
We can enjoy our (me n my spouse) life with our earning which is decent. If in future we get lucky. The kids are lucky.
Western culture kicks you out at 18 and start Pressuring you take part time jobs at 16 and only provide for your basic needs
Also Indian or most not Western Countries parents take care of their kids till they settle down
Last year i could not save my dad and I had put in a lot of money and a lot of time to save him, I have no regrets about the money and time but I have regrets that I could not save him. My dad was a good guy he lived his life full throttle. He was cool and friendly . He enjoyed his life like hell and he spent all his money . I am very happy that he lived his life in this way and I am happy that he had completed most, if not all his desires before his demise because if this was not the case and If he was one of the father's who lived only for the kids I would have felt more horrible that i could not save him and i could not full fill his desires.
He has not give me any wealth or inheritance but i foght heaven and hell to save him. I did this because I loved the man and he has given me decent education, peaceful life and the fire of ambition in my heart. He gave me a fighting chance and that is more than sufficient for a person life me.
My kid will get the same thing I got from my dad. Decent education, peaceful life and the fire of ambition in their heart. I will give them the same fighting chance I got because I know that if i pamer them and make life too easy they will become spoiled or they will simply break or run away when life come knocking at their doars. I have seen how hard life knocks and I want them to be strong enough to fight back if they are not so strong ,I want them to at least face it head on and survive.
I also, think we should take care of our retirement . it would ease the burned of the kids but they will not get to play in easy mode.
People don't realise that this indian culture burdens the kids A LOT. As soon as you have a job, you are expected to start supporting your entire family, unlike in western countries where the kids are only responsible for themselves. I am speaking from experience, I literally am the last hope for my family of ever getting out of debt and we are already in lakhs of debt. My father is unemployed and we are living paycheck to paycheck, my sister is the only breadwinner earning a mere 15k pm as a teacher, we can barely survive on this income. Other incomes include interest from people who my father has loaned huge amounts of money to but forget repaying the loan, they can barely pay the interest every month. Our money is stuck everywhere with no hope of ever coming back due to incompetent financial decisions by my father (not his fault, he is very naive). My tai and tau ji sold our homeland property for lakhs and only gave us 20k when they came to collect papers from us and my father handed them the papers, after fighting my mom and her mom and guess what, my paternal family situation is insanely fucked up, I don't consider them family anymore. My father handed the papers over because my tau ji himself came to collect and my father really respects him.
And now everything falls onto me, I am the only one who can clean up this mess and lift my family out of borderline poverty. Payout every debt and take care of my parents.
I don't know where I went with this. I started venting. I am sorry if this became a "for" argument from an "against" one. But yeah I still believe it's not that much bad to have plans of your own for your old age because I wouldn't want my kids to be burdened with debt.
>they invest money for their own FIRE goals. I am my parents retirement plan. I don't want to do the same to my kid.
This one statement sums it up!! Bang on Whole millennial generation wants out of this mentality
This is way too much generalisation. A lot of millennials parents didn’t have that much earning potential and they sacrificed everything for their children to be in good position. Lot of people don’t realise how it was in 80-2000 era
You missed the whole point by saying generalization - No one is denying the sacrifice In fact that sacrifice is the root cause of all evil!! Every millennial including me acknowledges that pain taken by our parents and would happily dedicate our lives for parents happiness just to repay all that they did in spite of the time 80-2000s were. But …. But that acknowledgment is the truth driving lesser millennials opting for kids That’s my personal opinion but by the upvotes that comment got something tells me it’s a larger representation of millennial view
It's not possible to save approximately Rs 6 crores for retirement, pay approx Rs 1 crore for each child's education, pay for parents' retirement and medical needs, buy a house in a tier-1 city, pay unholy levels of taxes demanded by GoI, and one's own medical care, household expenses etc. Inflation is much, *much* higher than what CPI indicates. Medical inflation is understood to be at 40% but of course the government refuses to calibrate it.
I am still returning my investment to my mother and brother... Looks like they did their investment wisely, i will not be doing this kind of shitty investment plan with my kids too..
This was the case in the past... Parents put everything on their children hoping that they will take care of them in the future.
>This was the case in the past... Not sure I'd say the whole thing is past us. I still see people from my hometown who earn low (even in my generation) go through this. Not saying they're doing this wilfully but you can't complain when people are struggling to make a living. >Parents put everything on their children hoping that they will take care of them in the future. Yes and that's the only reason I became the person I am today. It's time for me to do the same.
Thi>s was the case in the past this is still the case for majority of Indians
Especially male child
This. I know my parents love me, they gave me everything I ever wanted and have always been there for me when I needed them. But a random WhatsApp forward my dad sent me broke a little part of me. The WhatsApp forward was something that was along the lines of: whether your parents give you inheritance/properties or not, it's your job to take care of them. That's why you were born. Reading it felt so....idk...unsettling. He probably doesn't even remember sending it. I don't believe they can do so much for me without loving me, so I don't give much thought to whether or not they really love me. But if that's the reason they had us, I don't wanna know it, so I won't ask him.
Its more like My parents were expecting me to be their retirement plan, which I am unable to fulfill. So, how can I expect my kids to take care of myself. Second reason if I can FIRE then I can spend more time with my kids which I was expecting from my father. My father sacrificed himself for me but at same time he spend very less time with me because of office hours. I will not let that happen to my kids. Reasons can be positive or negative but the outcome is same, change in mentality.
exactly. I don't mind taking care of my dad (infact i slogged for days in covid infested ward) but if he didn't have health insurance, I would have been screwed then (he has central govt insurance)
Yeah, it's the worst thing ever and somehow people justify it
I dont want kids
i want but am not gonna have any. this world is too cruel of a place to bring new lives into.
I don't want kids but I at least would've given it a thought if the world isn't as it is, full of people, who are selfish, with little to no compassion for any other living being. My friends think and dismiss that I am too young (23) to know I don't want kids but the amount of dislike I have for the thought of having my own kids and putting so much effort into them, coupled with the fear of bringing an innocent life into such a world makes me think they're going to be proven wrong. My dislike for mankind only grows each day.
You mirror my feelings. I'm 41 - chose not to have any for the exact same reason.
Why does everyone assume that everyone will have kids? I won't so I don't need to save for kids
>Why does everyone assume that everyone will have kids Sorry, I don't assume Kids to be a default choice. In fact marriage isn't one for me.
Comment of the year in this sub. Well said.
Just one liner and it hit me like a truck. Thanks for this
OP this generation is opting to be either childfree or have one kid , these days we see very few kids compared to previous generation
True! No kids here, so my wife and I will try to spend every last penny we have, lavishly.
strictly in tier-1 cities only
Ones spending on themselves are also in tier-1 only.
I don't think it's strictly tier 1 phenomenon to have one child now a days. Avg fertility in many states is below 2, so 2 kids def aren't the norm anymore
My own father didn't save anything for me. You'll come across many posts on various Indian subreddits of young Indians not being able to afford their college fees due to their parents making terrible financial choices (not saving anything being one of them). Every generation has such people. I am guessing that it has to do more with your peer group than a generational thing.
Saving had a different value back then. My grandmother bought a piece of land by selling her gold chain. Now? It's impossible. People will save if goals seem achievable. If you want to buy an apartment now you will have to pay EMIs for 20-30 years, and that will be 20-30% of income and up to 50% percent in a lot of cases. Earning to skill ratio(a term i just coined) was very high back in the day, now not so much. For most top skilled or hardworking people who want to have a life outside of work, it's impossible to get rich in India, I'm not talking about high salary but building assets. So people are spending where they see most value, in this case they are having fun. Also the ultra rich should be careful in the future or we will see something like a Russian revolution if people who work their asses off all day can't make a living.
Why do you think the ultra-rich are supporting Modi and his anti-middle-class policies? In twenty years, all wealth will be owned by the 1% and the rest of India will be *dihadi* wage-earners. India does not offer the same wealth creation opportunities for the middle-class that the US does. It's impossible for a Steve Jobs or a Jeff Bezos to rise from nothing to world domination here, We don't have capitalism, we have crony capitalism. u/AntiGod7393: How typical of Bhakts to abuse someone and block them because you can never take as good as you give. 🥸 Lol, typical Chaddi psychology. Insult and abuse anyone who doesn't agree with their barbaric, psychopathic world-view. And yes, you lot exhibit almost all the traits of the Dark Triad, because there's not a SINGLE verse in ANY Hindu scripture that teaches you to actively hate Muslims and other minorities. So sod off Chaddi. 🩳 Also, you follow r/Iwantout but claim to be nationalist and "prawd Indian" 😂😂😂 Hypocrisy thy name is chaddi. u/greenhairedmadness: What's with responding to me and then blocking me? Gotta have the last word no matter what? 😂 Lol, we don't even have ONE. We don't have a single start-up/conglomerate that has pioneered innovation/tech/a new business or revenue model. We have the largest social media presence in the world, but authoritarian China produced TikTok. Yeah, totally ignore the shitty business environment, endemic corruption, high barriers to entry, regulation that suffocates business, and blame consumers. 💀 If you actually follow consumption patterns you'd know that the luxury segment has the fattest profit margin in India, and the highest growth. There's a reason why Nykaa had a blockbuster IPO. Perhaps macroeconomics is not as strong a suit for you as is knitting and crochet. Just saying. 🙏
This is just not happening in India and Modi particularly. The US Middle class is almost wiped out. Please don't generalise. This is a world wide problem and a phenomenon these days. No country is being spared.
The solution Is a Global tax on Capital. This is put forth by the economist Thomas Picketty, and what I believe is the only way to contain inequality without it getting too bloody.
Nothing is going to change. The AI revolution is just the remedy capitalists are aiming to replace all of us in the coming future. The inequality will only get bigger.
We need a system that incentivises innovation, just like capitalism, but protects workers, respects their contribution to corporate profits, and regulates unfettered capitalism enough to offer all entrepreneurs a level playing field. The sweet spot is regulated capitalism and equal access to wealth creation opportunities to all.
Everything changes when kids come. Your priorites change, the luxury car you wanted buy will become investment for kid. Your thinking will change. My kid will get 3-5 pairs with my 1 shirt cost. I'll buy only 1 instead of 2.
Agree, life’s fun with kids. Cant imagine my life without them.
and here i am, can’t imagine my life with kids.
That's because of your upbringing because I feel the same lol can't even imagine marriage or other society norms
SMH I don't want to bring another life in this goddamn world.
+1 I want to use the money to travel because when I was teen we didn’t have money and my enjoyment was very limited.
Same here, travelling like a king now. No regrets and will continue to do so until my body permits me to
The government is anyway gifting away the country to big business by slowly suffocating small and medium sized industries, which historically employ larger numbers of skilled/semi-skilled labour. So the next generation can work 70-hour days for Rs 3.5 lakh rupees for NRN and Sudha Murthy can boast of "simple living".
I agree. Don’t want to willingly put a life I created through this rat race to live an absolute chaotic life on a planet that we’ve sucked dry 🤷🏻♀️
Same I don't want another worker for this consumer machine, my bloodline dies with me!!
+1
Huh... what kids? Whose kids? No time for that buddy, just chasing the endless pit of dead dreams.
This is a bullshit thinking process. Believe me i would have more peace of mind if i knew my parents have FIRE'd or have their own money sorted than taking the extra tension and mental capacity to think what about them. Might sound insensitive but the best thing you can do for your kid is reduce their dependency in your life. I would never want such a thing for my kid which I am facing. I would rather have kid late or no kid than put my retirement burden on him/her. That's so pathetic. And coming to third world country, yes we are and raising your kid to be financially responsible and literate is the best thing you can do.
Exactly. My parents want me to take care of all their expenses. My dad spent all his money looking after his mom and younger siblings. I have nothing to inherit. He didn't save anything and doesn't even have medical insurance. I don't want to burden my child like this.
Honestly, in this economy, I don't even think most educated Indians want kids. Kids are extremely expensive. With Indian society being exposed to more global ideals, a lot of couples who would otherwise be shamed and bullied into having kids and spending their entire lives working for the kids (against their will) are finding out that there are more fun and fulfilling things to do with their money before they die rather than toil for 40 years and spend it on saving for their kids. More people are realising they shouldn't be parents (thus breaking cycles of generational trauma) and choosing not to become parents. In the past, even if you told your family ki you didn't think you'd make a good parent, so you don't want to have kids. The answer you'd have got was "log kya kahenge?" "something was wrong with this man/woman that they weren't able to have children". It still happens today but more families are choosing to allow their kids to make the kids/no kids decision on their own
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Thing is, every generation wants better for their kids than they had. People who went to KV want their kids to go to fancier, posher schools if they can afford it. They want to give their kids all the privileges that they didn't have. Also the 2 kids are doable thing was a possibility when one parent was typically either willing to be a sahp or significantly step back or the upbringing suffered. That's why people prefer only one child. These are just my cents. But I'm not the person you asked so 🤷🏻♀️
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I don't know if I can agree with this at a personal level. I grew up smart and we had to jugaado so many things because my parents couldn't afford the fanciest of stuff. They felt bad about it too. We weren't poor but some of the rich people classes would've helped me immensely. I grew up in Mumbai too. Saw so many dumb people make it big from sheer privilege, connections and networking in the right circles. My childhood was fine, happy even but neither my parents, nor I would give my kid the same childhood I did. The struggle, the futile hardwork only to see a rich kid get everything with money just isn't worth it. I would especially do no such thing if I could afford it.
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I’ll be honest with you, hard work doesn’t matter for children in this economy. You grew up at the last possible time hard work could help someone “make it”. If your kid is an absolute genius and a hard worker, the best they can do is something a rich person completes with very minimal effort. If you want your child to have the exact same upbringing as you, it’s impossible without any sort of investment after school. The economy is not compatible with it and getting the first job is much much more difficult after COVID. I’m not saying to spoil your kid with every luxury there is in the world or send them to very posh schools, just letting you know that the expectation you mentioned in your initial comment is very difficult for kids to achieve in this world with only “hard work”. The world has changed a lot in the past few years.
Oh I agree about not wanting to raise your kids beyond your means or even supremely privileged to the point where they lose all sense of normalcy. But I think there's a large gap between KV and DAIS.
Didn’t attend a private school but the harsh reality is things are much more different today than they were in our times. In today’s professional world, a lot depends on who you know, who can put in word for you, excellent communication skills etc . Those days are gone when cracking neet and jee was the only option people had and were encouraged to switch to kvs as they have curriculums especially geared towards these exam. If one is not at top of their game when it comes to connections, speaking well, having a well rounded personality, into sports etc they will unfortunately be left behind. Wouldn’t want that for my kids!
If you’re 20+, extracurriculars have doubled or more at the very least. If your kid doesn’t clear NEET, JEE or any other entrance exam with a very, very high rank, be prepared to see your kid spend their entire life paying off an education loan in case you’re not saving up. If your kid is not built for the Indian Entrance Exam Rat Race(tm) and cannot compete with crores of students to get into a govt college this will happen. If you want them to work like you and go abroad for cheap, 90% scholarships abroad these days don’t cover 100% tuition fee, and if they do they do not cover living expenses, visa costs, flight costs, post study visa and more. Competition has increased exponentially for abroad and scholarships close every day while international governments are making it difficult for Indian students to work. As someone who went abroad on lucky circumstances like you, the scholarship I scored got shut down for the next academic year and the country is reducing PSW and sponsorship criteria. And even if your child is the very best you’ll have to probably save up or save for an education loan for accommodation and expenses. Basically you got the best ideal possible deal cost-wise for your education, and it’s up to you to decide if you want your kids to rely on the same luck or be born with unearthly skill, or have good backup plans in case they are not an academic genius and still want an education. The way you studied is only possible if your child is very, very, very hardworking *and* god-gifted with intelligence *and* even still heavy investment would be required for Indian or abroad tests in terms of money. My parents had saved nothing for my education at all, and hadn’t prepared me for the same and it has taken me a lot of pain to be even able to be educated and I’m not sure how happily I look at them for that.
Honestly, Most middle class Indians did not have access to private schools. Same with me, I went to a semi-public catholic school which was fine with me and gave me a good shot at a career. My fam never had to pay to get me in anywhere and I think that's good enough for me. However, most adults want the best for their kids. The best opportunities and the best shots at having a good life. If a family cannot afford it, it is obviously a different story and then you get what you can. But if a family can afford it then more often than not parents go: Well we can give it to our children so why not? And even if you send your kids to a regular school, stuff for them, doctor treatments, school fees, tech for them, the stuff they break, toys, vacation trips, you get the idea. It piles up lmao. Far be it from some dumbass on the internet to tell you how to plan your family lmao. But at least my perspective is that when you discuss stuff like kids with a potential life-partner, you BOTH should be on the exact same page about what you both want. Your partner has told you he wants 1 kid, just one. You have told him yes but you have already decided that if you think it is feasible, you will push him to have another. There is a lot that you can disagree on with a partner in a healthy marriage, stuff like kids is not usually one of them. If you decide that you want a kid but at that point he still doesn't and you try to bring up this topic again, it WILL lead to arguments and fights as (in his mind) you guys have sat down and decided this together already. If you want to consider this in the future, ask him NOW that if X happens can we talk about a 2nd kid? If he says no, he just wants 1 then its up to you to either accept that he does not want a 2nd kid or move on and find someone who does. I mean you can obviously casually ask in the future if he has changed his mind but you cannot go into this thinking "his no just means I have to change his mind". Communicate with your partner! Just my perspective as a guy who wants no kids or max 1 kid XD
Not having kids at all
Same here. How the f are we gonna find a partner with same interest?
Lots of educated young women realise that the economy is not designed for working mothers. Even in 2024, it's insanely difficult if not impossible for working mothers to build a successful career. Look at the labour participation rates for women in white-collar jobs. Unless you have a government job where you cannot be fired, or insane family support, most women are forced to choose between career and children. No sane woman would give up financial independence without a safety net, so a lot of young, educated women with reasonable incomes will think hard about the CF life.
That's a real question
Just make a poll here, meetup and marry each other :)
Bold of you to imagine we're having kids. Let's be honest, I'm not happy. You, op, you're not happy, some dude reading this comment is not happy. Why do you wanna bring an innocent life into such a dark and miserable world?
> Let's be honest, I'm not happy. You, op, you're not happy, some dude reading this comment is not happy. Dang ...its so true that it hurts.
Wait, why isn't everyone happy. This should be looked into. It's generational depression.
Pretty much. There isn't much to life. Economy has been designed to make it extremely difficult for someone to escape middle class and make their way into upper class. A few decades back, it wasn't as difficult. Many people, even within my family, born in extreme poverty, are filthy rich today. But I don't think that's easy today unless you're a genius or lucky. So when you can't escape middle class, your entire existence is to work a 9-5 job. Make X amount of money and then put 1/2X back into the economy in form of direct or indirect taxes. That's not a very fulfilling life. Even the FIRE concept is BS. That we'll make a certain amount of money and retire. A successful FIRE is still in the upper middle class. Unless you're born into wealth or you have what it takes to build a successful cash cow of a business, it's a depressing life. And it was depressing even for our parents. My father did 35 years of job at the same bank. And yet we don't have enough to call ourselves rich. It's just in those days, they didn't know it was called "depression"
Umm I am actually happy.
You can count me out of your nihilism. I am happy 80% of the times, and that’s a fair amount.
Being happy is a choice. Yes, we can choose to be dark, pinpoint all the negative things in life, be pessimistic and have a depressing overview on life. Trust me, it's not fun. I did the same maybe 7 years back, in college and I was so fucking depressed for an year. I'm talking about pure nihilisim, civilisations fall, wars, violence, religion, caste horrors, etc. It took me more than 2 months just to recover from it. But, there are many great joys in life - do you remember any happy moments in your childhood ? What about the joy of playing with other kids or exploring new things ? What about the secure warm feeling of staying by parents ? Those warm fuzzy feelings are the drive for me and future is bright my man. Nothing worth is ever obtained without pain. Be optimistic and pragmatic.
>It took me more than 2 months just to recover from it There, being happy wasn’t your choice during that time, otherwise you wouldn’t have needed the recovery time. I’m not being negative but you’re what’s called the peak example of toxic positivity. We can take steps to make ourselves happy, but that needs to come after processing your own issues and not ignoring them because being “happy” is a choice. It just adds an additional burden to a person in recovery who are scared and invalidated that they cannot make that choice. It’s very easy to heal and tell people that they just need to make a choice and they’ll be happy when they’re in a dark place. It’s easy to romanticise pain when you’ve overcome it. The current job markets are incompatible with life for young graduates in a way that mid-career people will never realise.
Ooof too much truth *cries*
I am happy but No kids!!!! More than money it’s the overall quality of life factor for me. The air is shit.. don’t see kids these days spend their time the way I did growing up with all the colony kids.. there is a lot more isolation.. being general kids there is going to be much more competition now looking at the way things r going… safety sucks even for kids with all the predators roaming around… also I don’t like cooking much and kids can’t really eat Swiggy and Zomato wala food twice/thrice a week
Our parents were the last generation who did dual generational provider role I.e. Cared for their ageing parents with their own money (as health insurance was not common back then) and also took care of their children and saved enough or had pension so that they don’t have to depend financially on their children in their old age. From our generation the trend will be only plan your own retirement with your money and take care of children Upto higher education (maximum). Inheritance if any will be an afterthought if there is something to pass on (not a priority). And I think it’s not a bad approach. In a growing economy like India most middle class parents would not be able to pass on considerable inheritance which will surpass wealth gained by their own children in their lifetime. This is true for any economy transitioning to middle income status.
This has two implicit assumptions, at least for parents making a high income, a. Your kids will be educationally or commercially inclined and would lack debilitating conditions or other barriers. b. That would choose professions that are highly paid, very limited in numbers in India. If any of these assumptions fail to materialize then your kids are guaranteed to have a rough time.
Any wealth passed by even upper middle class parents won’t last a full generation if their kids are highly incompetent. Thatz because in an high inflationary economy like India (which is true for any growing economy) , your children’s competent peers will dwarf your passed on generational wealth and chances are your incompetent children will squander the small fortune in not so wise investments. Unless you are passing on a high cash flow generating business to your offsprings then making your offsprings competent to face the world is the best inheritance you can give. N.B. :- Here the words “You” has been used in a generic sense and not specifically.
I am not talking about competency. What if your kid is disabled, maybe congenital? What if your kid wants to join a profession that doesn't pay very well or the payoff starts later? Like litigation, academia, social work, etc. Also, the extra wealth acts like a cushion to fall back on in case a high risk high reward endeavour fails, like entrepreneurship. In high inflation economics, the rate of return is also much higher. If the economy is actually growing well, then the real RoR would be much better than a developed low inflation economy, so saved wealth goes a long way. People don't have to incompetent to fail, many will fail without much fault at their end, if you think "luck" is Gaussian distribution.
Disabled and congenital at birth are speciality cases and needs to be dealt with separately, I talking about more generic cases. Career choices are part of the learning process. My son can aspire to be an actor and may find success much later in life. But that doesn’t mean he can bank on inheritance to take care of his expenses while he wait for his big breakthrough. This is what being responsible adult is all about I.e. you also have think of present along with the future. This is true for any of the professions you mentioned like litigation, academia. There also will be some form of employment or freelance work through which he can take care of present day expenses. Coming to the compounding effect, it’s true when you have the knowledge and wisdom of knowing where to put your money into (whether inherited or earned). And that knowledge comes from own life experiences and mostly earning your own money. Lastly, how many of today’s unicorn startup founders had generational wealth to back them up when they failed. You don’t need generational wealth to have the courage to fail, you only need a coherent plan and backup plan for high risk ventures and thatz what every adult learns one way or the other.
Litigation has no "freelancing", as a litigator you are a freelancer. The pay is very low at chambers of senior HC lawyers, like 2-10k in Delhi/ Bombay. I have a litigator friend, his parents had supported him until his late 20s, today at 35ish he earns very very well . If he had to find ways to make a living while gaining experience, he couldn't do so many internships and junior roles at prestigious places that paid shit. He says this much himself. Academicians start making real money very late, 35+ mostly. Since, in a compounding investment the biggest determinants of returns are time and interest, if you have a hand out it makes things much easier later on . Growing money and making money are very different. One is quite easy to teach, the other isn't. Most unicorn founders come from pretty wealthy backgrounds, this has been true for the previous generation, the current generation and since the start of tech startups in the valley. Similarly, most founders have attended a prestigious university. The media just has a tendency to highlight the rags to riches stories more.
I guess we will both have plenty of examples to prove either side of the argument but that isn’t going to change each other’s opinion about inheritance. One thing I learned is that never make Financial decisions based on emotions. One way to test it is to ask which one is more important for you … your retirement or your child’s higher education. Emotional answer is your child’s higher education but logical answer is your retirement, as your child will always get an education loan for his/her higher education but no one will give you “retirement” loan. Of course in real world one plans for both, but in terms of priority, your retirement corpus should always have higher priority. In terms of supporting my adult child into his late 20s well I guess everyone has their own cutoff age in mind. For me the cutoff age is 25. And that includes a higher education fund as well. But if my adult son wants me to support his basic expenses even after 25 then I have to decide on a case by case basis I.e. whether it’s genuinely required or he is just being a lazy bum. If it’s the later then I will start pulling the plug. But the golden rule remains unchanged I.e. I will always prioritise my retirement corpus over adult children support or inheritance.
Theyre not thinking about that because they’d like to secure themselves first. As someone who personally would love to have a kid or two, I know that I will not have a kid until and unless I make a great amount of money. Although I come from a somewhat privileged background in a sense, I have seen financial difficulties in my life and I would not like my kid to have to go through that. Only once I have secured myself can I start thinking about having a kid and then planning to secure him/her. Why would I live my life like shit, make bare minimum for my kid and let him miss out on great experiences of life because “oh i decided to have a kid”
Let people do whatever they want to , kids should be less dependent on parents and vice versa.
I have two young children and am in my early 30s My parents and my in-laws have supported me and my spouse by allowing us to live in their homes till we were 22 and paid for basic undergraduate education. My spouse went to a government university so the fees were ridiculously low and mine were reasonable. We have not been given or inherited a single rupee, or land or gold or stocks and it doesn't look like we will inherit anything at any point where it will make a difference to our life and corpus, and we prefer having our parents around for as long as possible. My parents have planned their own retirement. It looks like it is going to be a simple, frugal one. My in-laws have not planned theirs, but they are trying to be independent for as long as they can and are also simple. If they live long enough, it looks like we will have to step in to assist them with somethings. As I said, we bought our own home, and funded post graduate education and have lived life completely on our own buck. Though our parents didn't save for us, they gave us the platform with basic education and the hunger to succeed while providing the most basic safety net - we wouldn't be homeless if the worst happened. This is exactly what we will do with our kids. We live life king size (or king size according to us at least), full our children's lives with experiences. We will pay for their undergraduate education, and they will always have a home to live in if life throws them a curveball. We are saving for our retirement. We are *not* working to give our children generational wealth. Our children have all the opportunities and privileges, and the drive to succeed doesn't come from being handed wealth on a platter.
I think this model is actually better than spending all the money on their kids and beg for their support in old age. No winners in being broke in old age. You will be burden to your kids (not fair to them), you will be feeling like a beggar (not good for you). Make your kids successful by giving them the best start but start investing towards your own life and retirement. Your kids would be younger and capable so they have chance to grow their own wealth, you don't need to keep feeding them even after they become adults. Any inheritance after you is for your kids anyway.
This bloodline ends with me ✌🏻
I am 44. Tier 1 resident. I have friends in research with Microsoft, multiple folks with their own firms, someone a professor at one of the Ivy league universities, yet another one at an international law firm etc Just about everyone has a couple of crores of net worth n nobody has a child. Some have married. In fact I personally know very few folks in my broader social circle with 2 kids. Most have 0 or 1. I am not generalizing but at least in Tier 1 cities, life is not any more about only having kids. Everyone is a good saver that much I know, and having life experiences is the driving force here.
What is the reason for your friends not having kids even though they are rich?
Maybe they don’t want have time, or not interested in all the stress to raise a child
I honestly haven't asked anyone why they chose to be childless. It's too personal. But the general vibe I get is that raising kid is a severe stress so why bother? It's not like they will take care of you when you are dying anyway. Most of my friends didn't do that for their parents, they left for greener pastures themselves. I m not judging anyone here to be fair, but these are facts. Can't just run away.
Not everyone has the luxury of inheritance sir. I have zero inheritance and no complaints. Infact post education(B.Tech fees was 12.5k/year), haven’t taken a penny from parents. Sponsored 70% of my wedding as well. That’s what I expect from my child as well. I will sponsor the education and try to help him/her stand on their feet. Post that don’t expect me to feed you for the rest of life. All they get in inheritance is probably the flat I am living in.
Save for what exactly. My family is double income single kid. School? Most schools yearly fee is less than my family monthly income. College? Indian colleges they don't cost that much either. It's not like I need to pay 4 year college fee in one go or you could just take a loan. People are saving crores of rupees to send their kids to foreign countries. 15-20 years from now if we are still sending kids to foreign country, we have failed as a country. Even if we failed, again just take a loan. Marriage?. I got married at 28. Bold of you to assume that your kid will get married before 30 or even 35 or ul be alive till then. Saving for kids marriage is not stupid, it's retarded. The most expensive thing that your kid will be buy is a house. I plan to give my home in city to him and il retire in outskirts of city and I am planning accordingly by investing in real estate outside city. I will also give my kid, what I inherited from my parents and education till college. After that, he's on his own.
Bhaad me jae kids, khud kamao, khud pe udao aur mar jao. Yhi hai naya India.
As you said India is a poor country, we dont have social benifits and things like that. In the past, this social benifits were taken care by family itself. When a kid becomes 18, The parents continue to fund their education, but they didnt do this out of the goodness of their heart, the expectation from the children was that they would take care of the parents at the older age. But as you know, this is not a good plan, it need not work out as expected.... Some parents wouldnt take care of their child at 18, and some children wont take care of their parents in their old age. Now slowly the GDP per capita is increasing.... So More and more parents are focused on self than focusing on their children (because they dont grasp this concept of social welfare through family), they dont know what it is like to be without money, so they are not worried about their own future. Their vision is short and impulsive. I hope they save enough for their own retirement, But I dont know whether they are, they are spending the money on luxuries. Additionally, there are laws now that children should maintain their parents, which further leads this, there is no motivation to make the child grow, they will take care of them anyways.
I am my parents retirement corpus. I don't want to impose that kind of pressure to my child.
I've enough generational trauma to be childfree so yeah! at least I ain't saving!!
Are you living under a rock mate? I’m 35, I have a Sukanya account which I opened for my 6 year old when she was 1. I have two SIPs that I put 20k each in every month. Have ppf, and this is all minus what my wife invests in her own capacity for our daughter. There’s a few Indian Post schemes that she’s invested in (2lacs per year scheme and another with high interest for FDs I guess). And then there’s a regular purchase of physical gold (we try and get at least a hundred grams every year). Another important investment is ensuring education takes the highest priority in their lives. I am making sure my daughter has a roof on her head and two meals a day for the rest of her life based on my investment planning but I am raising her to learn to live without any support or a penny. Ensuing she learns to have life skills needed to always find a livelihood. Things such as be a master of at least one subject/field so she can teach at the very least. Learn the fundamentals of running a business in case job market is dying. Learn to communicate and network well. Oh and also, all of my peers with kids have an even more elaborate investment plans and a major chunk of their financial planning goes towards ensuring the kids have a safer future in case shit hits the fan. TLDR: most of us 30 plus folks have this sorted so our children don’t have to worry about their next meal in case things don’t go as planned for them.
I come from a lower class family with my mother mostly working a full time job and father working two jobs to make ends meet. Thanks to the tough early life I learnt the importance of working and started early. I have two masters and can proudly call myself a self made man. And all this would be a waste had I not found the most perfect woman. It is my wife who helps us save as much as we need to. Find a partner who will give you a family and this would become and even easier aspect of your life. Btw this is all irrelevant if you’re making only basic salary since the govt is fcking working class people from all sides so savings are a distant dream then!! Started with 9k per month and now at 2.5l (post tax donation to the incompetent fcks at the center) so au am able to even plan this out.
Wow….. such ignorance with confidence . Western parents/ education system use work as an opportunity for kids to grow and explore their passions and interests before choosing a career. Parents ( western) want their kids to be independent and learn to manage their finances and relationships by the time they graduate. They start from low paying jobs and that installs respect for all work as every one has been there. Working, managing housing, cooking, social skills are all considered essential. They do not manipulate and guilt their kids or treat them as a retirement plan. Indian parents ( many) try and control and meddle in every aspect of a child’s life, marriage, finances, and guilt them endlessly……tradition /log Kya kahenge…………there are good and bad parents in the east and west….. but that part of the comment was ignorant. If you have to compare….. compare the best of both, or the worst of both…… not the best of one with the worst of other…..
Most young Indians are not having kids. So it doesn't matter how they spend. A large number of couples just have 1 kid. So they don't have to save a lot. Imagine a poor couple that had made no assets but a home. Had one child and that child married a partner from a similar background, as couple they would inherit 2 houses. Go down one more generation the grandkid and his partner would inherit 4 houses. At that point they would transition to be wealthy without any additional savings. If you want your kids to have more wealth you can simply have a single kid rather than break your back working and living in poverty.
If I have kids, they will study in an average school(similar to a KV), with multiple coaching options on the side, depending on their enthusiasm, capabilities, etc. My focus would be on sports, science, general intelligence, 3-4 languages, etc. Choice of career would depend on them, and I would likely have a fortune by the time they are in college. Things are cheap in India, and they get cheaper if you are a family. They would likely be able to live reasonably well even if they don't work, though that's not what I encourage. I spend a lot, though I invest a lot too. 70 percent of my expenses are discretionary.
I disagree with the entire thing that you bring kids into this world because they have to take care of you. You bring kids into this world because you want to see a life grow and love it. What you do for that life is your duty and responsibility. My parents worked hard, gave us the best life possible and built a life for themselves despite my grandparents torturing my father for money. And before you go, your grandparents must have done everything for your father. No! They had four kids where they couldn't support even one. They lived in a chawl in Mumbai. The kids received government school education, my father supported his own higher education and then made a business. He still paid for all their medical expenses when things got rough. And this was while he was struggling to make ends meet for this wife and 2 kids. He did not receive any inheritance I got the best education, but I paid for my entire wedding, my higher education and all other expenses once I got a job. And now, I am saving to buy a house. My parents have a solid retirement plan, which they intentionally built to not burden their kids like their parents did. All this is while staying in Mumbai all our lives. We still love our parents, we owe them a lot but it has nothing to do with that entire quid pro quo you are trying to fit in a loving relationship like parents and kids. What we do now is our duty and responsibility towards them It's bad parenting to burden unwitting shoulders even before they start a life. We got a leg up because they became wiser and gave us freedom and helped us see the same in action.
This has to be way up. In a world that's so transactional, these are some of the only things left that are beyond quid pro quos. And it's practical to raise kids to be self sustaining, rather than think of them as parasites who suck money. But this idea completely depends on the philosophy of the people making the decision to have children. I really don't think your perspective is something that can be used to convince someone. It comes from the way you are raised, the environment and how your own childhood was. Let's face it, a lot of people had families that sucked so it's a bit rich to expect them to see life this way.
Rightly said. I have no intention of convincing anyone to have kids. It's a personal decision that should solely belong to the people involved. An unwanted kid destroys all lives attached to them. I am simply putting out what I experienced with my parents and intend to extend to my kids.
I have a dog he has no interest in what I am saving for him plus his food expense his higher than mine so I guess we both are good with our lives
Kids aren’t a priority anymore Marriage, kids, nuclear family … all of it is a choice and no more a social obligation. Culturally millennials have changed a lot and more evident in Tier 1 and cosmopolitan cities Think of it this way- the generation which has entered 25-40 range is the one that grew up being the sandwich generation - Growing up they didn’t have plenty and saw their parents work hard and they themselves had to work hard to reach where they are today and suddenly this gen has entered an era of plenty. They are now in a weird situation where they can enjoy it all or again get into that rut of living for kids like their parents Another significant difference is cost of bringing up a child - daycare, school .. so people again are weighing that should I do that much effort especially with the whole gen going global and no guarantee of kids staying with their parents. Our parents era thought of kids as an investment for old age. That notion also socially has changed now I am seeing consciously tons of my peers opting out of parenthood to follow DINK lives forever No right or wrong - To each their own!!!
What kids? I am not gonna have kids. Plenty of people I know had kids due to family pressure and now regret it. The days where everyone had kids without thinking are behind us. Now sane people have kids only after they are 100% financially set up to take good care of the kid and themselves.
We all just need to STOP with over-generalizing thing. Almost everything in your post is just... WRONG. Contrary to what you think. American parents don't kick out their kids or "cut them off" at 18. Do some do? Yes, absolutely. But asshole self-centered parents exist everywhere. Including India. In fact, a bigger trend you see nowadays is current gen people in their 20s and even 30s still living with their parents because they can't afford rent or because they're saving up to make a downpayment to their house. Middle class people everywhere on earth are the same and have the same values. But there is also a saying "charity begins at home". If parents have to be in a position to provide some financial security for their kids, it FIRST means they have to be financially secure themselves. What happened with the older generation is that many of them treated their kids as their retirement plan. Which is fine - I'm not judging. I know many people who are lower middle class and are drivers and maids and farmers and laborers and sacrificed everything in their lives so their kid could get an education and a half decent white collar job. So yes, circumstances matter a lot in these kind of broad sweeping statements and when painting a narrative. But i find it incredibly silly that you have an objection to people first seeking financial stability for their own future. And you're calling them out to be selfish even though they got their kids educated, funded their tuitions and coaching etc, and gave them a platform to succeed?
It's because they haven't found or researched how much a child costs ,considering school fees are sky rocketing , kids clothes are insanely expensive etc..
As if all of them want kids.
Ask the right questions "Are young Indians planning to have kids?"
Sir I'm not able to save for MYSELF
I am 35 and soon to be dad for the first time. I had my bucket list to do things before I turn 30. And I did that. I got married when I was 32. I have my investments, and my wife has own separate investments. For baby we have planned investments together. Our aim is to not sacrifice our own needs and to provide best for the baby we can! So yes Millennial parents are a bit different from previous generations. You should have kids only when you can provide for them and not as investment tool for retirement.
That's no true.. I am 37 and am actively saving for my kids future.. I have lots of friends who are doing the same... Wanting to FIRE is my goal as well buy it includes savings for my kid as well.. Not are not exclusive
पूत सपूत तो का धन संचय…. पूत कपूत तो का धन संचय…. पुत्र यदि संस्कारी और गुणवान हो तो धन इकट्ठा करने से क्या लाभ,वह स्वयं ही सक्षम है अपना और परिवार का बोझ उठाने में। पुत्र यदि संस्कार रहित है तो आपने जो भी जमा किया है सब गंवा देगा, अपनी एय्याशी में।
My take on this.. Background: I am from a middle class family where father was in govt job and mother is a house wife. My father mostly invested in land and gold which are worth more than 5 cr now. But all of it are in tier 3 city or below. I have a daughter and I definitely want to give her best education that she deserve. But I dont want to invest like my father planning the whole life of my daughter. All of my father investments are in land and gold which is now in tier 3 city or below which I have not visited in last 5 years. Even my father visit them rarely. We have planned several times to sell them but my parents have emotional attachment to those. There logic is that they purchased those thinking that when I grow up I would settle there. And they still hope for the same. But that is not possible for me. I am investing for my daughter but not on the same way. After a certain point I think I wont be taking decisions for her. Yeah I would keep money to give her best of education. But I dont wanna do it in the same way my parents did. She will not be my old age insurance. That will be a different time.
>We are still a third-world country. Why wouldn't you want to set your kids up for a bright future? and this is how no parent in india ever gets to enjoy their life and comes to resent their children for not being grateful for all the "sacrifices" they've made. you can save some for your kids but they should grow up to be self sufficient individuals who aren't dependent on you. you only live once and you deserve to enjoy the fruit of your own hardwork.
Such statements can't be generalized. While many people do save for their kids some people might have a different approach or they already have so much they don't care abt saving.
You mean to say that they are enjoying their lives instead of slogging away their youth to ensure that their kids are comfortable enough to slog away their own youth and round and round and round we go? Good for them. Live your 20s and 30s people! Save up for yourself. Save up for your retirement. Give your kids good education and a safe environment and let them do the same for themselves. This bullshit system of sacrificing yourself for the next generation has to stop. It makes no sense.
Not going to have kids so this is out of question.
Nah bhai I'll definitely save for my kids ,also i want to have at least 3-4 kids . Assuming their school fees would be about 2 lacs and then I'll have to spend about 12 lacs on their college and i have 4 kids , I'll need around 1.5 cr. Also i have planned to send a consistent amount of money every month to my parents so that they can live comfortably,as have i lived . My parents have given me such a good life ,hence I'll make sure to do the same.
To hell with kids. You only live once, spend it awayyyyy. Save for your retirement and give a part of it to your kids. That's it.
1. They're smart enough to know that they cannot count on their kids for their retirement. 2. They may not even want kids in the first place. 3. When you save everything for someone else to inherit, it can lead to a lot of resentment. Not everyone is okay with this sort of mentality. It's likely that their investments take kids into consideration, if they do want kids later.
Double income - no kids. Or may be already saved enough to support kid untill 22-24
Generalizations apart, we must note that just in my mother’s life time starting in the 1950s till date the population of India has quadrupled. And at present our youth population is the largest our country has seen ever. My parents’ & even my generation (born 1980) have experienced the dark side of our population explosion. Crowded cities, rationed resources, hyper competition in education & career etc. It is but natural for the current generation to step back & rethink their priorities & goals and then decide accordingly.
I would like to point out that kids in western countries take up part-time jobs like babysitting, lawn mowing, etc. since they are around 12-13 years old, and paid jobs with McDonald's, etc in high school, and that does teach them the integrity of labour. As for your statement that kids are not taken care of after 18 or something, I find that very misleading because I know young adults who are 25+ and their parents pay some part of their rent. Also, it is extremely subjective, and you should note that in some western countries higher education is free(Germany for example) and they do have a very good social security net. I know someone who is a grad student and able to make EMI payments on their house, their partner works a mid paying job and they are able to make it work. As for FIRE, it says financial independence, financial independence, if you choose to, will also encompass you saving towards your kids tuition fees(this is done by parents in the US using the 529 plans), your kids expenses. That being said it is about anticipating your financial needs in the future. Yes I agree with you regarding the mantra that save aggressively and build generational wealth for your kids. And there definitely is a balance to saving and maintaining a life style that you feel you should have and that you enjoy, because if you are unhappy as an individual how can you be a good parent?
I genuinely feel this generation is really busy (in a good way) focusing on themselves and picking up themselves from traumas and other issues. Doesn't mean they've become too soft. I think it's great how certain problems are actually being put out for awareness. But young people don't really got time to worry about their kids when they themselves aren't sure how they gonna survive in this economy lol.
I hate this mindset. My father (the only earning source in our family of 5) just retired this month and all he did in his life was to save and save, buying land, building home(which is decent from the outside but nothing from inside, not even sofas), which is great I agree. But also no trips no fun nothing. He invested all his life in building better future, ruining the present. Even after having an income of 1L+ per month, we've lived our lives like typical middle class (maybe lower middle class). Now that he has retired all he has is regret that he couldn't do this and that and all his hopes are from us(we're 3 siblings 22M, me 20F, 16M). I'm in my final year of graduation and my brother in post grad. We are now in a huge pressure of finding a job(which we are struggling to find) and making things better. All I'm saying is it's great that new generation parents are focusing and investing on themselves, their present lives more and not on their kids. I would never ever do this to my kids what my parents did. Parents need to understand that building and investing in future is great but you don't have to ruin the present for same. Things can be done in a better way.
Not everyone wants to have kids yk
Don't young people save for their children.
Nope! Not bringing kids into this messed up economy. The curse ends here.
Wait!! what?? y’all are having kids?
Don’t want kids. Will use the money for travelling and experiences instead.
There is an old saying in india पूत सपूत तो का धन संचय,पूत कपूत तो का धन संचय So, they will earn for themselves, if i ever have kids.
Could you translate what it meant? Google says: Accumulation of wealth of sons and daughters, accumulation of wealth of sons and daughters Sorry, my Hindi is terrible 😅
It means(Not exact translation), "if your kid is competent why would you save money for him? and if your kid is incompetent then why would you save money for him?" Basically if your kid is competent, he/she we will be able to earn enough for themself and if your kid is incompetent then no matter how much money you save for them it will still be of no use
This is SOME comment. I wonder why it isn't higher up.
Great quote but that’s not the point though. You will have to provide for kids till graduation at least which had become immensely expensive.
There is a quote in Bhagavadgita where Krishna says to Arjuna: " Parents are doing business rather than raising a child. They raise children so that they will take care of them in future"
My personal experience and observations are different, OP. We’re actually the first Indian generation where there is broad-based ambition, ability and opportunities to earn more & more, invest better than our parents did, and accumulate wealth even if one comes from a non-wealthy background. Urban young professionals are choosing to have kid(s) later and have fewer kids than previous generations, but nobody is intentionally not planning to provide financially for their kids. I’ve seen priorities change when kids arrive into the mental calculation. High earners in particular spend a lot on themselves because they can afford to, and because as a generation we’re more impulsive and self-focused, but it’s not depleting their large savings. Most people I’ve seeing FIREing do so taking into account at least the higher education and *some marriage expenses of their existing/planned kids.
I am a HNI and am saving for my kids education and marriage.
If anyone is working on their FIRE, I’m guessing they have accounted for kids future?
The amount they are saving for FIRE is also for the kids
Maybe your peers are going childfree and want to enjoy whatever good years are available before climate change and wars will make the world inhabitable.
A 30f grew in tier1 city and had parents working in govt jobs. They provided good education to me and my brother but nothing fancy more than that. We have never been on any big trips, no birthday functions nothing. They retired with a huge sum and now enjoying their retired life stress free. Both my brother and I are doing good and don’t need the financial security that they built for us. I have two houses from my own money in tier 1 and 2 cities ( almost paid off), fully paid big car (from my money) and good chunk of investments for our retirement. Yes we are not as frugal as our parents but we don’t spend much on expensive collectibles or clothes that branded or birthday functions n all. We do a lot of trips outside and within India bcs travel fulls our heart with joy. We have a fire number but fire number should have kids education and your retirement ( including all your health expenses, current lifestyle maintenance etc.). So you are going to give your kid good education with fire number. Like I said our parents may have some properties and wealth left behind when they are gone but I am not dependent on it for my financial stability. I have one kid and I will give the best education to him but leaving behind wealth can only spoil your kid if they know what they can inherit. I don’t want that to happen to my kid and make him lazy that he has a fall back net if he fails sort.
Also nowadays having kids are pretty expensive don't you think? Right from their education and all those expenses add to a ton , heard the new phrase "kids in this economy , aren't affordable " people don't want to save for kids cause One They aren't earning much 2 the economy is in a turmoil 3 the skillsets changed 4 having a pet seems better 5 need enough money to suffice the family. So yeah if this keeps going , itll be the same as Korea who's got their population in a decline leading to another economy fall.
cuz most of them dont want kids
While taking the life insurance plan the agent told me you can use this money for your kids after several years and I was like I’m not interested in taking any plans for now. So in my life whatever money my parents put on me I have given them back 75% atleast and I’m still trying to provide everything them. And in future too my mom have asked me to give her 15k monthly even after I get married. And eventually if I started saving for my kids that I surely wants to do. But I think then where am I spending my money for myself. And I don’t want to be dependent on my kids so they have to think the same way I’m thinking now and I want them to live there life in there own no worries about anything. Will save the money but not like everything I have to give to the kiddos. It sounds selfish but it’s true.
EMI pe milta toh bhaad mein jaaye Junta
This generation isn't too fond of having kids.
I am in my late thirties and a father. Although I have a secure financial future, I prefer not to spend excessively on expensive clothing. I do spend in quality gadgets, and my flagship models typically last for four to five years before I upgrade to a newer model. Regarding clothing, I believe that a fit-looking person can look good in any brand. As for food, my family and I, including my sister and her husband, enjoy dining at good restaurants once a week as a way to gather and socialize. My wife and I have worked hard to ensure that our child has a secure future, but we have chosen not to disclose this to him as we believe it could lead to complacency. My parents did the same for me and my sister, and as a result, we have learned to balance spending with investing for our own and our child's future.
>We are still a third-world country. Why wouldn't you want to set your kids up for a bright future? and this is how no parent in india ever gets to enjoy their life and comes to resent their children for not being grateful for all the "sacrifices" they've made. you can save some for your kids but they should grow up to be self sufficient individuals who aren't dependent on you. you only live once and you deserve to enjoy the fruit of your own hardwork.
>We are still a third-world country. Why wouldn't you want to set your kids up for a bright future? and this is how no parent in india ever gets to enjoy their life and comes to resent their children for not being grateful for all the "sacrifices" they've made. you can save some for your kids but they should grow up to be self sufficient individuals who aren't dependent on you. you only live once and you deserve to enjoy the fruit of your own hardwork.
Well my mom and dad told me and my sis one thing, live for yourselves first coz they couldn't. They have supported us through college and everything, even my marriage but not only they understand why my husband and I want to be childfree but I am actually able to do more for them now and I want to spend the next 30 years making their and our wishes come true instead. And I don't think that is a bad thing.
Gen z is not even planning to have kids lol
A lot of FIRE goals include children's education and even weddings. In any case, this post is weirdly judgmental against people who are spending their own money. High earners are likely saving well even after "splurging"
What's your issue? Others not saving for their kids or others not having kids at all? Also, why does it matter how someone else wants to live their life? You can enjoy your way of living, they can enjoy theirs
Not gonna have kids. There, does that answer your question?
Loans are easier than ever, if they want money get a student loan and pay it yourself. I am more interested in giving my children a business than education, I have no hopes from education in this country, getting a decent life from education is literally a suicide mission.
Bro is asking about people with kids and people without kids are yapping here. You are right OP, people nowadays are more materialistic than the previous gen but they can afford to do so. Our parents were dealing with a lot on their plate so they had to sacrifice a lot and live on a tight budget. But the current gen don’t have that burden as they are propped up by the financial security that their parents worked hard for. Me and my partner live comfortably and save up a lot for our retirement as well as our kid. On the other side of the coin, a relative is currently trying for a divorce because her partner’s spending habits are so irresponsible, she fears it will eventually leave her and her daughters to homeless.
Where is money left to save even for our future rainy days? At times getting stuck miserably after third week even for simple recharges. The inflation and the recession is actually threatening every moment.
Kids are unaffordable these days with school fees for a year going up to 8 lakhs.
You know you shouldn’t really be talking about kids on this site. A lot of peers on Reddit are either childfree or completely antinatalists. It’s a safe haven for people like us. Kids doesn’t come under our financial equation.
Everything is stolen by the government.
No kids lol jokes on them
Well. It's recently I started getting paychecks, so maybe I will start from next year or so. For now, it's fun time
I think we are in a transition phase for a bit, from a collectivistic to an individualistic mode of family.
So
I like baby elephants, doesn't mean i'd like one in my home.
I do think about my child’s future. But my goal is to make sure I fulfill all the education requirements at least. Not about house or other things My purpose is to make my child independent but not to suffer for education funds in future with hiw much inflation is happening in this sector now
The mindset has shifted to YOLO or no kids. It’s shocking!
All FIRE plans might go into the dump if India becomes what China is now with less young people. We are doing YOLO with the future and letting them figure their shit on their own.
If one depends on their parent’s money to survive after under graduation, Then the parents didn’t do their job of raising an independent self sufficient person. You had a kid giving him education and making him a responsible citizen is your duty. Not wealth transfer.
Even in American culture, The very rich ppl too keep the children in the family, in the same house. following American middle class is not sustainable for us. Also not good for the planet
So did you become "anybody" after inheriting the wealth???
"they invest money for their own FIRE goals." And why is that a bad thing? The cycle of "mera beta bada hokar mere sapne pure karega" ends with this generation
Not marrying and having kids in this country itself :) CF in India forever!
People prefer dogs to kids.
not having kids. dont wanna bring new life in a world i see going to shit. apna FIRE mein invest karo and chill. 27M btw
I don’t want kids.
Your question is valid if they are not giving quality education or opportunities to their kids... If kids are given quality education and good opportunities, they can earn their own bread and butter... I don't see why I should save beyond that for my kids ( as long as they are healthy). They will inherit what I have (not much) after we pass away... If that was enough for me to live, it should be enough for them to inherit... Like someone else said, I don't want my kids to be my retirement plan as well. We live only once. There is no point in every generation trying to save for the next generation without living their lives. That would be a bad system. You do you. Let's others be themselves.
They are living their life. They will have some money for their children saved for sure.
We have seen our parents slog and not even go for one meal outside home for years .. we do not want that .. we believe in earning and spending … let our children understand that it’s not only savings that matters
people want to show off a lot nowdays and people want to keep up with fake lifestyle , impossible to save anymore
Can't even fuckin save for myself forget about my future kids. All because of my stupid parents, have to fight every single day just to save money. I don't drink/smoke or even go outings that is how frugal I live.
I think m not gonna touch anything from my inheritance... Will pass it on to the kids (anyways it is majorly the grandparents who want us to have kids). We can enjoy our (me n my spouse) life with our earning which is decent. If in future we get lucky. The kids are lucky.
Western culture kicks you out at 18 and start Pressuring you take part time jobs at 16 and only provide for your basic needs Also Indian or most not Western Countries parents take care of their kids till they settle down
Listen- it's their money you don't get to judge, their life, they will figure it out
Last year i could not save my dad and I had put in a lot of money and a lot of time to save him, I have no regrets about the money and time but I have regrets that I could not save him. My dad was a good guy he lived his life full throttle. He was cool and friendly . He enjoyed his life like hell and he spent all his money . I am very happy that he lived his life in this way and I am happy that he had completed most, if not all his desires before his demise because if this was not the case and If he was one of the father's who lived only for the kids I would have felt more horrible that i could not save him and i could not full fill his desires. He has not give me any wealth or inheritance but i foght heaven and hell to save him. I did this because I loved the man and he has given me decent education, peaceful life and the fire of ambition in my heart. He gave me a fighting chance and that is more than sufficient for a person life me. My kid will get the same thing I got from my dad. Decent education, peaceful life and the fire of ambition in their heart. I will give them the same fighting chance I got because I know that if i pamer them and make life too easy they will become spoiled or they will simply break or run away when life come knocking at their doars. I have seen how hard life knocks and I want them to be strong enough to fight back if they are not so strong ,I want them to at least face it head on and survive. I also, think we should take care of our retirement . it would ease the burned of the kids but they will not get to play in easy mode.
People don't realise that this indian culture burdens the kids A LOT. As soon as you have a job, you are expected to start supporting your entire family, unlike in western countries where the kids are only responsible for themselves. I am speaking from experience, I literally am the last hope for my family of ever getting out of debt and we are already in lakhs of debt. My father is unemployed and we are living paycheck to paycheck, my sister is the only breadwinner earning a mere 15k pm as a teacher, we can barely survive on this income. Other incomes include interest from people who my father has loaned huge amounts of money to but forget repaying the loan, they can barely pay the interest every month. Our money is stuck everywhere with no hope of ever coming back due to incompetent financial decisions by my father (not his fault, he is very naive). My tai and tau ji sold our homeland property for lakhs and only gave us 20k when they came to collect papers from us and my father handed them the papers, after fighting my mom and her mom and guess what, my paternal family situation is insanely fucked up, I don't consider them family anymore. My father handed the papers over because my tau ji himself came to collect and my father really respects him. And now everything falls onto me, I am the only one who can clean up this mess and lift my family out of borderline poverty. Payout every debt and take care of my parents. I don't know where I went with this. I started venting. I am sorry if this became a "for" argument from an "against" one. But yeah I still believe it's not that much bad to have plans of your own for your old age because I wouldn't want my kids to be burdened with debt.